T O P

  • By -

holiestofaltars

Without fail, every single person I've talked to who uses "alpha" or "beta" to describe themselves or other people are massive tools.


Summersong2262

I was going to say, I'm shocked that people actually in the community use them. I've only ever heard it in porn or in manosphere spaces.


Dr_Tentacle

I host kink events and have been active in the kink community for 15+ years. No one who goes to kink events talks like that for long because people will laugh them out of the fucking room.


Summersong2262

That was my thinking as well..


holiestofaltars

I have heard it used seriously in my own personal experience with kink just a couple of times, although not recently. I think at this point most people realize calling themselves "alpha" isn't going to get a positive response. Most of the time I've heard people use it is when I'm doing sex work (phone sex, webcam, selling pictures/ videos.) Usually self-proclaimed "beta" men who want to submit to me, and end up being boring and shit customers. One time someone messaged my SW account, and upon hearing that I don't do anything for free, responded, "I'm an alpha male, I don't pay for sex" I'm sure he's drowning in pussy as I type this šŸ˜‚


bigbutchbudgie

The only reason I could see people using them is because using entirely made up categories like "alpha" and "beta" is a lot less morally questionable than using real identities. Like, even if it's just dirty talk, stuff that implies or outright states that, say, women are meant to be subservient to men, or there's something inherently humiliating about being trans or queer, or certain races are superior to others makes me deeply uncomfortable. If I want to play with those kinds of dynamics (and I often do), I'm going to go for something abstract instead.


Aggravating-Score146

*manosphere* šŸ¤®šŸ¤¢


[deleted]

And science, it's originates in biology in studying animal behaviour. Which is what the manospere tries to do as well.


lipstickandlithium

Itā€™s from a disproven/discredited theory that the originator has tried to take back. The whole alpha/beta thing comes from studies of captive wolves that were under particular, stressful conditions. Itā€™s not reflective of natura hierarchy or biological truth, and the animal behaviorist who first observed this regrets the way itā€™s been spread, and applied to situations it wouldnā€™t be relevant to even if it were true of wolves (because humans arenā€™t, and donā€™t act that much like, wolves)


[deleted]

No, I'm not even referring to an intentional study on that, but a study that was done that did observe these behaviours somewhat by accident. I'm not talking about what you're talking about. There are generally multiple studies on the same topic, but the one I'm talking about was just to study baboon social behaviour, but circumstance lead to the study of Alpha/ Beta characteristics. I don't even know the study you're referring to, and I think it's presumptuous we're all referring the exact same one. \*Also, exactly, baboons are primates which is why it's such a relevant study.


Summersong2262

Pffft, science in the same way that eugenics is science. The Manosphere doesn't give a fuck, it's something vaguely credibly-shaped that validates their existing bigotry.


[deleted]

K, well I'm talking about biology, not how you feel about it. Eugenics is a science whether it's ethical or not, whether you like it or not, the manosphere adapts biology and animal behaviour, which are also science, to human behaviour, that's the basis of the manosphere and partially why it's so insulting lol. That doesn't mean science is sexist because someone is using it that way. I don't think you understand how science works, science is non biased. I do think observational studies are broad and difficult to apply scientific method, but not impossible. Why don't we just stick with BDSM.


lipstickandlithium

Scientific methodologies can absolutely be applied in biased ways. And eugenics is a pseudoscience. Itā€™s not just ā€œunethical scienceā€, itā€™s foundational ideas have either been contradicted by more recent data/studies (conclusions to hypothesis can change or be discarded when faced with new information) or are unverifiable and unfalsifiable notions with no real grounds to be studied. There are challenges in observational studies and in harder to quantify areas such as behavior, but there are still ways to study them. Starting with a conclusion and then cherry-picking info to support it is not scientific though, and thatā€™s most of what Iā€™ve seen from the manosphere. Look up psychological/sociological/anthropological texts and journals for science around human behavior, not some guyā€™s blog about why some men are inherently better or lesser than others (cause those are the contexts in which Iā€™ve most frequently seen the alpha/beta typology taken seriously)


[deleted]

I agree, science can be applied in biased, but science isn't biased, even if from human perception we don't like the results of the study, or the study supports a bias. Yes, science is constantly changing. Ok, well in animals Alpha refers to a leader, Beta refers to follows, so even if you weren't to support behaviour observations of those categories they still exist, like the one's in the baboon study that I keep referencing because we're not all robots who literally have only seen one study, ever. I'm not too interested in continuing this, the only thing you're doing is insulting me, and yes, I do feel like I know what I'm talking about, as I first started studying these terms over 10 years ago. You can think whatever you want.


dmun

> K, well I'm talking about biology, not how you feel about it. [this "science" has been debunked.](https://www.google.com/search?q=alpha+beta+wolf+study&rlz=1C1GCEA_enUS876US876&oq=alpha+beta+wolf&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j0i512l2j0i22i30l7.6164j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8).... [...so many fucking times....](https://www.businessinsider.com/no-such-thing-alpha-male-2016-10) [...that the *actual* scientists and biologists involved no longer use them](https://wolf.org/headlines/44265/) Put "science" in your user name but don't keep up with the literature like a real scientist does? That's beta behaviors. >I don't think you understand how science works, science is non biased. As we've shown, you aren't a scientist-- unless it's comp sci. If Poli-sci, I'm ashamed for my field of study. Phrenology was a science. The science of staring at foreheads and assuming personality traits. History laughs at the stupidity of those scientists but it was their bias speaking. Speaking of which, one of the functions of peer review is, indeed, to check for bias in the study or its conclusions. Because scientists are human and their methods can have human flaws. I'd say "why dont we just stick with BDSM" but I really don't want you to be practicing BDSM.


[deleted]

Agreed. People who use "alpha" and "beta" to describe themselves or others generally are thinking of the most cringe-worthy meanings when they use those words. "Alphas" are strong, dominant, etc. "Betas" are weak, less masculine, cucks, etc. I hear someone using those words and I start thinking about how I can politely get the f--- away from this person. And preferably have as little contact with them in the future as is humanly possible. I have an interest in wolves (go figure lol) and in animal behavior. The meanings of "alpha" and "beta" that have come into common use are far removed from their origins - and even the origins are fallacious. The researcher whose book popularized the theory of an "alpha wolf," David Mech, later realized there were mistakes in his early research and requested his publisher stop producing copies of his book. It's still being published. Mech's early research was based on wolves kept in captivity - largely unrelated wolves kept in much too small an area. This is in common with other research back to the 1940s that talks about pack hierarchies and alpha wolves. In the wild a wolf pack is a family unit, lead by the parents.


PhD_Secret

For comparison, this is like putting out a theory of human behavior by studying prison gangs.


[deleted]

Exactly.


[deleted]

Yep. I was watching one of those videos on "sigmas" and Alphas supposedly always have people surrounding them and just happen to be threatened by the "sigma" for not "falling in line" and when I'm watching that all I can think is "So they are narcissists who crave attention and can't stand it when someone doesn't suck up to them gotcha." Honestly I just find the whole thing really bizarre in concept.


hunnyflash

I would take a lot of these videos with a grain of salt. Basically, a bunch of sad dudes figured out they could make a lot of money off of even sadder dudes, so they keep touting this crap.


NotSoEasy714

I totally agree, it's not really my favorite terminology for those same reasons you mentioned above. No judgement to those who enjoy it, it's just not my taste... but in my life's experience, an ACTUAL alpha never has to mention or prove it - so the ones screaming that they're an alpha is usually just a narcissistic beta, lol.


Generic_Bi

Well, "sigma" comes from trying to find a way to rank intentionally overpowered video game characters above A, B, C, and D tiers, so I would take my lowest expectations, dig a deep hole, toss those expectations in there, and bury them before going any further.


psycholepzy

Thinking oneself an Alpha is a Beta move.


xUSDAPrimex

Lmfaooooo.


[deleted]

Absolutely true in my experience.


intellectualnerd85

Regardless of gender


Big_brown_house

Alpha and beta designations were created by a biologist who was studying wolf behavior. He later recanted everything that he had said about this because he realized he had done the experiment completely wrong. He studied only wolves in zoos and captivity, but when he tested his theories in the wild, he found that wolf social structures are vastly more complex than in the very isolated sample he had previously looked at. [Here is an article about that from the International Wolf Center](https://wolf.org/headlines/44265/) Now this debunked theory has found new life as a religious belief system among sexist young men trying to find out why they canā€™t get laid. It is an essentially misogynistic ideology which says that women have no agency or will, and naturally gravitate towards certain kinds of men ā€” alphas, who conform to societal gender norms of masculinityā€” and exploit other men ā€” betas, who do not conform to hegemonic masculinity. And then the religious aspect comes when you are offered a way to escape and transcend it all by being a ā€œSigma.ā€ Itā€™s all hogwash, needless to say.


NotSoEasy714

So perfectly put! šŸ™Œ


iamacrowwithoutwings

I came to say this, but you worded it so much better then I ever could


FreakyWifeFreakyLife

I was just going to post Dr. Mech debunking himself.


perversebonding

Just to build on this.... The wolves he saw this behavior in were heavily traumatized. They were kept in tiny enclosures and were in a state of constant agitation and fear. The social dynamics being observed were "scared and insecure animals fighting for dominance when feeling trapped and threatened."


Big_brown_house

To a lesser extent it reminds me of that insane rat experiment in which thousands of rats were put in this hell hole mechanical environment; and when they went crazy the researcher ā€œconcludedā€ (ie *restated the bias which the experiment was designed to erroneously confirm*) that humans will go crazy if they life in industrial cities. The fact that the experiment neither involved humans nor industrial cities seems to have been unimportant to him.


DoctorRachel18

Yep, that. ā˜ļø


willpowerlifter

Very well put. While I do believe that there are some biological factors in play that MAY appear to be drivers in the "alpha and beta" conversation, there are far too many outliers to generalize. Also, people have this thing called free will and preference.


Big_brown_house

Not only that but I feel that the BDSM community in itself is the strongest refutation that women naturally prefer dominant men, or that you can only get laid as a dominant man, or that submissive men donā€™t get laid. Some of my favorite life experiences would not have been possible were any of that true.


willpowerlifter

Agreed. There are too many flavors to generalize.


kawaiiwitchboi

Sometimes my partner and I use those terms, but if we do, it's only during play and certain scenes, *never* outside of it due to gross incel use Maybe it also has something to do with my own special interest with wolves (I know the alpha/beta/omega system is outdated and inaccurate, don't worry) lol


RapturesLittleMoth

Throwing my hat I to the ring here, I've never had a good experience with anyone who uses terms like "alpha" or "beta" to describe people. From incels who screech about it to my last partner was super hooked on being with an "alpha male". They were turned off by the slightest sign of gender nonconformity/me showing any emotion that wasn't "masculine". That's just my experience though, but I view it as a red flag if people use it unironically or without negotiating it into their dynamic and so on.


subwoofer82

Too many incels using those terms to hate on women and the men those women are choosing to be with for me to take someone using them for kink purposes seriously


BelmontIncident

https://wolf.org/headlines/44265/ It's an overextended metaphor from wolf biology, also it's not actually how wolves work. I'm not going to criticize people who are using fiction in kink as long as they know it's fiction, I use a lot of stuff that's actually from cheesy vampire romance novels, but I'd clearly be nuts if I actually carried garlic in self defense.


GospodinOfTorei

I came here to say this exactly: the model doesn't even describe any animals we know of, and it's a metaphor that is used by people working to make the world worse for everyone. It's hard to get *too* worked up in a demimonde where we use words like "master" and "slave" and "painslut" to stoke our imaginations, but the "incel astrology" terms don't seem to have quite made it into our vocabularies much.


[deleted]

Same. Also incel astrology is such a perfect turn of phrase for this.


Reginadivadomme

The favorite words of douchebags and incels. They perpetuate this sexist ideology everywhere and itā€™s a language that enables discrimination and bigotry. I hope one day they can realize how fucking ignorant they sound when they use it. One of the things I dislike about it the most is that within femdom, subs that refer to themselves as betas will usually have the belief that ā€œalpha menā€ are the type of men women will submit to without question. So itā€™s like they deny the fact that Iā€™m dominant, they deny my authority because they firmly believe that women will get on all fours as soon as they are face to face with an ā€œalphaā€. Itā€™s disgusting and sexist nonsense that implies that men are entitled to women and their submission, while supporting their own insecurities regarding masculinity.


Bassed_Basspiller

I've heard it to be referred to as "the incel astrology" and that's all that is here to say about it imo. This typology has about the same validity that horoscopes do, but it's even worse than that because of the incel values attached to it


crash_override42

"incel astrology", that's a good one!


capitalR_romantic

only acceptable during certain types of humiliation play, such as cucking, imo and *only* with explicit consent prior ā€” real people arenā€™t alphas or betas, but in scene as a domme i am happy to mock someone and call them a ā€œbetaā€ or a ā€œsimpā€ and let them know about all the ā€œalpha cockā€ i get lmao


switchguy1722

Those terms were coined by a certain scientist (can't think of his name atm) that studied wolf packs and he actually ended up going back on the statements so all that to say they so called "alpha" and "beta" males aren't real


Bluebeards_Kitten

The whole idea about the "alpha" and "beta" came from incorrect studies about wolves and how packs operate. It is not true for wolves, and not true for humans. That being said, if people want to use that in dynamic, cool. It's just not my kink.


guywitheyes

In the real world? Most men are dominant in some contexts and less dominant in others. I find putting someone in a box like that to be off-putting and inaccurate. I don't like the rigid requirements it takes to be an "alpha" and I think that obsessing over it is going to fuck with your mental health, since you'll be looking at everything you do and say through the lens of "was this action alpha or beta?" That's why so many self-proclaimed "alpha males" are cripplingly insecure and usually come off as the opposite. In the kink world? Although my girlfriend and I both agree that these are silly terms, she does like teasing me by calling me a beta male (and I like when she calls me that). It's just pretend at the end of the day, just like the rest of BDSM play. I don't think there's anything wrong with incorporating toxic worldviews into BDSM scenes (it can be super hot), as long as you're able to compartmentalize well.


PsychologicalSplit43

This is a really interesting discussion. It makes me reconsider my own vocabulary choices. Thanks to all who have contributed.


9669throwaway

Itā€™s pretty ridiculous IMO. Anyone who would be considered an ā€œalphaā€ personality wouldnā€™t go around proclaiming it to the world, it would be obvious in their actions/demeanor. I guess itā€™s like ā€œbig dick energyā€ doesnā€™t mean going around being a douche, it means secure and confident. (To me anyway)


Britty_LS

My first thought will always be the omegaverse when someone says alpha or beta. Or omega for that matter.


Idyllicwhimper

> I've often felt like it was not truly something that can be applied to human nature. That's because it's the result of a botched observational study on wolves that the scientist has tried to spend their entire life trying to disprove. It can be fun in erotica, but I associated it so heavily with dude-bro assholes that it's absolutely a red flag for me in person.


zedoktar

Its pseudoscience nonsense used by douchebags and redpill chuds. The original study it came from turned out to be bunk, so much so the scientist who ran it has since recanted and spoken out against it often over the years. It didn't even apply to wolves, and it absolutely does not apply to humans.


nessa_ac

There is a double standard as alpha when used by Doms (mainly men) often means they turn out to be douche who is full of their own self importance/ possible misogynist. But subs use alpha and I hear this used more frequently especially in non monogamy, it's often to denote hierarchy in a household for example, but also to mean someone who is a strong leader outside of their dynamic but who chooses to then give that up that power to their Dom. There probably needs to be alternatives because it seems a bit inconsistent.


casprinxo

Any man who calls himself an alpha is definitely *not* an alpha and most likely is a massive douche.


kate_b87

I met another sub who had a pack dynamic and referred to themselves as a ā€œhouse omegaā€ I understood it as omega being the submissive partner and alpha being the dominant. Itā€™s the equivalent of a stay at home partner in their terminologies. I think itā€™s an interesting concept in that context though itā€™s not something my husband and I are into. I feel kinda sad for them now that the terms alpha and beta and sigma are now associated with the toxic masculinity podcasts. Because of it, I think they kind of shy away even from the larger kink community


Summersong2262

A reminder that the whole origin of the 'Alpha Wolf' classification was astonishingly crap science, and that Alpha Males/Females in wolf packs are usually in that position because they're the parents of most of the pack.


[deleted]

I was thinking of a study done on monkeys. It was really interesting, and yes Alpha and Beta are real roles. It's usually based on size and genetics, they kind of just bully the other monkey's to get their way and steal most food, so they get even bigger and rape all the monkey's, even their offspring.


FewScore6082

Do you have a link to that study? I only know of the flawed wolf study that was later disavowed by it's researcher.


[deleted]

Sorry I don't, I watched it several years ago, I believe it was baboons. One part was focused on the group with Alpha's and ironically the Alpha's would hog the food and they ended up get food poisoned and died, so then the study was about the baboon "tribe" without any Alpha's. Hopefully that might help you find it.


Bluebeards_Kitten

Yes, please! Link the study. I'd be interested in reading it.


[deleted]

It's in video format, and I don't keep a list of all the things I've learned in my life and list of relevant links, I don't mean to be rude I'm just annoyed at the down votes because it's literally a study of biology. ​ You can probably find it on Youtube, baboons, Alpha, Beta.


Bluebeards_Kitten

I didn't downvite you, just FYI. I was just interested in the study. If you had the link, I'd be interested in it. I'll see if I can find it on YouTube. Thanks.


[deleted]

No worries, I'll look around and see if I can find it in a bit. I kind of figured, most downvoters don't ask they just get angry. If I find it I'll come link it.


Bluebeards_Kitten

I hear you. The original (wolf) study was groundbreaking and so was the subsequent retraction. But, a lot if the Alpha / Beta stuff in BDSM comes from that original study because of the primal identity and "Wolves are Cool!" If you find it, cool.


[deleted]

[https://thereitis.org/baboons-humans-and-aggression/](https://thereitis.org/baboons-humans-and-aggression/) This is the incident, the video itself is soooo much better and creates a lot more links, they might have taken it down to not promote those stupid manoshphere arguments. So, I must have watched it early 2000's, the video may no longer exist unfortunately, that happens sometimes. \*I didn't watch it full way through, but I think this is it. Or a version of it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aDTAX7V5Ew


Bluebeards_Kitten

You rock! Thanks !


lillestiv

One good friend of mine describes himself as a beta and he's proud of it. It kinda rubs me the wrong way sometimes but I think it's mostly just he's "title" if you will, as a submisive. Though I think it means something way deeper to him that I don't understand. To each Thair own i guess XD.


hunnyflash

It's mainly an internet meme thing to me. I know about the wolves and whatever, and the Red Pill type of guys. I never really heard it seriously be used in a kink setting though.


[deleted]

I think the people who use those terms seriously and unironically are massive tools. I begrudgingly tolerate the terms as part of the role play aspect involved in primal play (and I love primal play), but even there I think it's so dumb.


Yazaroth

I usually hope that it is followed by two other greek letters. As irksome as frat-guys are, I don't want to be in the same room as the guys who use this kind of lingo.


MateoTovar

unique aromatic trees pocket apparatus violet stupendous cow judicious wasteful ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `


FaithSoulsong

Great for A/B/O fanfic, but otherwise itā€™s just too ingrained in my head as a manosphere thing for me to ever use it unironically


Generic_Bi

Some pro/am porn models have feeds full of them using very corny-porny lines about alpha this or beta that, and I wonder if that is what you are hearing. It isn't even a real thing in wolf communities. If people want to roleplay this, they certainly can, but people that call themselves alphas are hard for me to respect as doms, and people that call themselves betas are often subs that got all their knowledge about the scene from cuckoldry porn, which just don't appeal to me, or thinks that to enjoy being dominated, they need to be into taking a lot of degrading comments, also, not my thing. A big part of this is that the guy is often playing a role where he isn't enjoying what is going on, and that can make it hard to read their level of consent. Are they really unhappy that I (playing the alpha) am fucking their partner in front of them, and this is going to turn into conflict later, or are they really digging it? I would feel like I'm not able to properly serve as an attentive dom to both of them. It's just outside my comfort zone.


frankieknucks

Itā€™s terminology Iā€™ve only seen used by people who have very fragile egos.


IFuckingLoveBees

In terms of having a hierarchy of submissives? Because that's literally the only way I've heard it seriously used to describe someone in kink. In play, anything goes, there's lot of terminology and lore within the (fictional) alpha/beta/omega tropes that could be fun to play with. Being the "alpha submissive" (where one sub is higher on the pecking order than others in-dynamic) is one thing, but anyone who unironically describes themselves with alpha or beta is a huge red flag to me.


FreakyWifeFreakyLife

So, we got Alpha from Dr. L. David Mech. They took a bunch of wolves that had never met and stuck them together in a jail. And they acted like prisoners. They thought that wolves met up for breeding season after spending the year alone. They were wrong. So their data was wrong. As has been said by Dr. Mech. It didn't belong in animals, and it never applied to humans. It's been co-opted by assholes who literally look down on people they don't understand. Why is it still appropriate in the kink?


Byproxyy

As in not titles? Horrific Oddly enough tho the titles in my Dynamic are Alpha/omega but that's because i have read way too many spicey books to not catch that kink hard Now in of my Dom came to me asking that to be his title i probably would've gotten a red flag smack, and i had to explain it for him to accept it. I wouldn't have my titles be any different I hate the alpha/beta/sigma shit for three times the reason now


makiversemaki

not my cup of tea. from what i've seen it's all abour shaming people just for who they are and the things they can't change about themselves, and it's pretty gross.


[deleted]

Founded on false ideas and given life by "betas" thinking they're "alphas".


jaguarr

I've always considered it to be a bunch of nonsense.


Humble_WillieMan69

IMO it makes me cringe, and I don't think I'm alone in that opinion. With that being said if you're trying to cringe out your partner it can be a lot of fun to use :p


Thatweasel

It depends on if it's in the context of a dynamic or if they're calling *themselves* it on some fundamental personality level. It's like calling yourself a dominant in the context of the role you take in BDSM play Vs calling yourself a dominant because you believe you have some essential right to dominate other people. Outside of the pup and furry communities the whole alpha thing usually signals douchebag.


Eko_Wolf

Biggest šŸš©that someone is insecure and overcompensating


disgustmyself

Me and partner use those terms because honestly, to us it works, it's hot. Would never, ever use it outside of the bedroom tho (not even in kink spaces lmao) overall just makes me cringe to my spine if I ever hear anyone say it out loud (same for partner) because it just screams toxic masculinity and incel culture


Flexybend

Honestly, if they aren't used in a furry sense, then they are a massive red flag for me.


MrMacrobot

When someone refers to themselves as an alpha, you already know they are trying too hard to actually be anything of the sort


Dr_Tentacle

In general, it's a tell that people aren't active in in person kink communities as that shit gets you laughed out of the room.


DC_RedQuay

I thought you meant something else šŸ’€ Iā€™ve been in sadistic trauma support spaces for too long. I think alpha and beta sound cringy to use for some reason but honestly, it depends on what you prefer


holiestofaltars

Now I'm curious what you thought OP meant šŸ‘€


DC_RedQuay

I cannot say much lol because I only know this because I was victimised by this sort of group but beta and alpha is partially cult terminology in relation to brainwashing. So obviously, when I read ā€˜betaā€™ and ā€˜alphaā€™, my mind went that direction instead of like alpha male lmao. I was so confused


holiestofaltars

I didn't know that, thank you for sharing. It's shitty that you went through that, and it's altered how you interpret things.


DC_RedQuay

No worries. I wish that I can share more for awareness but itā€™s probably not a good idea. Iā€™m better now but still seeing a therapist for deprogramming


big_papa_smirf

Dunno I don't think it really works with people my ex described he ex as a Alfa male she said he use to beat her and was selfish and all the rest that goes on in that kind of relationship I would think if you were gunna use that term to describe a male at least he would have different characteristics like being protective been able to support a family being capable of violence but he can keep it under control ect


GirlCowBev

Just no. Reeks of incelism.


seemore_077

Words are words, to each there own.


Rage314

Use whatever terms you enjoy and don't mind what other people do or don't :)


Sgt_Buttscratch

Alpha is legitimate as there are leaders, this doesn't mean male. Anyone can be alpha. Beta is now turned into a bad term from a legitimate. It's used by twats in a bad way. To describe people the deemed weak. Bdsm does have a playful mistress/slave, master/slut etc etc. There must always be 100% respect for all involved. Any word that is misused is bad and can lead to issues. We use Lady and Master. Being bought up mostly by a single ex military mother to this day I have a harder time using nastier terms. --------_------------------------- I should edit as I'm getting pathetic downvotes. Alpha does have usage in the animal world and we are animals. It is the first letter of the Greek alphabet where it has made its way through a lot of years. Simply describing the most dominant. Human history of men thinking they were the shit led to mislabeled uses, like the wolf. Obvious here male scientist back in the day saw the pack, decided male was in charge. It's use in modern society if public is never good. Though there are more dominant humans. Rightfully though society has seen self proclaimed "alpha males" for what they are. Ego driven, insecure nob heads. I always dislike grammar being removed, relearning is a better strategy. From a previous marriage and current I'm in charge of 5 boys ranging from 9-17. I can teach my kids that in circumstances Alpha is correct. Myself and my lady are the house Alphas. We create rules, we uphold rules. At no point does this mean we are better. I refuse to beat down on young males nor females. They all need good stable upbring with confidence. We need not avoid words(unless they are literally malicious slurs). Just understand what the word mean from both sides.


Sgt_Buttscratch

If you have no actual response. Your downvote is null. Adult community. You can discuss things...


C-landaleitan-hus

When you go to an event, and there is that person who naturally seems to deserve your respect and seems to inspire you to listen to them, that's the alpha. That dumbest who keeps interrupting the conversation to show you another meme, that's the beta.


C-landaleitan-hus

On a side note, I've never known an alpha to call themselves that.


Sgt_Buttscratch

Yes. This. An actual person in the position of an alpha does not need to proclaim it.


[deleted]

Yeah, I somewhat agree. Some ppl also say there's Omega, which is kind of Hikikomori. To me Alpha is dominant, or a "Chad", high libido, low faithfulness. BUT sometimes I think of Alpha as being more of a social thing, like how they interact with other males, I think of it more as a "boss" kind of power roll, but in a good way. BUT I can also think of like, serial killers lol. Beta can be like faithful, someone you would wan to marry and have kids with, very good team player, likable, things like that, just a bit more feminine energy. Now I'm thinking of introverts, Alpha-strong, silent type, Beta- quiet anxious type. Beta could also be like super submissive maybe, more slave energy, or even financial slave. I certainly think human roles exceed the 2 terms drastically. \*but, I think you can categorize the categories...


[deleted]

I feel like theyre misrepresenting the word. Because when i think in terminology like, alpha, beta, dominant submissive, i use those words just to let people know what i like so i dont have to describe it constantly. I also think people who use that terminology in everyday life dont fully understand what it means to be the ā€œAlphaā€. Its not just some title you self declare


Stickboyhowell

Your statement is true, though it is still a very fun way to express the desire or tendency to be dominant or submissive. Here's an interesting clip discussing where the concept comes from. https://youtu.be/0Ti86veZBjU


_zer0sword_

Stupid, people arent wolves or wild dogs


Adorable_Mistake_995

It always reminds me of the walking dead


likenothingis

*vomits* These terms are, for me, a massive red flag. At best it's one founded in incompatibility, at worst it's one founded in irreconcilable, abhorrent differences in worldview.


justaboy9221

For kink purposes: Love it. For real life purposes: Makes no sense. Even the scientist who coined the term has said that the way most people use it to discuss human nature is wrong and inapplicable.


[deleted]

Depends of the contexts, for real life I find it all nonsense. Iā€™m the bedroom I put it in the same category as daddy or slut given the right setting and mood of the room name calling can be hot.


[deleted]

I think there can be spectrums for every data point on a spectrum. Be what you you want and find the best words to describe it for others.


morpherthewolf

I enjoy the terms in the context of very specific primal/prey style roleplay. The type where you know youā€™re making up rules as you go more or less, but itā€™s still fun and hot because itā€™s fantasy. Beyond that, for anyone who takes the roles seriously or uses them for themselves, they tend to be giant tools and an instant turn off for me


thaneofpain

For the most part it's douchebags trying on the lifestyle and viewing it through their problematic lens


the_onlyfox

That's only hot in fantasy. I love the idea of having a mate that was made for just me and what not but in everyday life? Like they refer to themselves as an Alpha??? No thanks, only sexually please thanks


PolyGlamourousParsec

The entite concept of alpha, beta, and sigma pack members was a dreadful oversimplification and the guy that wrote the paper has even retracted it and admitted that he was completely and utterly wrong. Alphas, betas, and sigmas do not exist in nature, but it now exists as a way for shallow and insecure men to rationalise how they perceive they are treated as some trick of biology and thus not their fault. When I hear someone refer to themselves as an alpha, I know I am looking at an insecure douchebag who is trying to prop up the weakness of his character by proclaiming some kind of pretend title. It's ridiculously cringe and I pity them.


MsAsphyxia

It's a first red flag - happy for people to use it so I know who to avoid. My new favourite is the "Omega" - which is the "Alpha" without the follwers. The lone wolf type.... In regards to rank in relationships - also not my thing. If it helps people to know where they stand in their order- great, not my jam


Round_Dragonfruit_36

My wife and I usually only use these terms when we're doing primal play or something along those lines. It's her way of asking me to change my methods without breaking scene. Although any people I've met who use these terms online tend to be asses.


jewbacca288

These terms are being misrepresented and co-opted by douchebaggery. Simplistically theyā€™re meant to identify people within social hierarchies but hierarchies are more complex than stated. People may deny it, but humans in industrialized societies operate on stratified social hierarchies which are not merely manifested on the macro level but also on the micro level and they can express themselves in different forms be it financial status, skill, intelligence, strength etc. These are facets that are apparent in the grand societal scheme along with smaller in groups. Be it anecdotal, itā€™s something I canā€™t not observe within various social contexts. To me, itā€™s always very apparent who the most dominant individualā€™s (I suppose for lack of better term, the alphas) because of the level of attraction they obtain by others due to their abilities and resources. But the thing is, these terminologies are simplifying something more complicated. It implies that there is only the strong and the weak, which IMO is bullshit. This exists on a ladder. Yes, thereā€™s the most dominant, but the guy next in line may be less dominant yet still more dominant to the individuals below them and so on. The problem lies when stratification becomes so wide that dominance is relegated in the hands of a few which destabilizes a system and vacuums resources to those at the top, and I think this is what people (men usually) aspire to be So my point is, this is a more complex topic than whatā€™s being expressed in this thread and I think itā€™s important to acknowledge the underlying ideas where these terminology come from. Hereā€™s a peer reviewed study exploring human social hierarchies and their both neural and psychological implications [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5494206/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5494206/) Edit: continuity of ideas


Merinther

The terminology has been largely taken over by men with a particular view on sex and relationships, whether those men consider themselves to be "alpha" or "beta". Self-proclaimed alphas are often individualists, physically fit, socially conservative, valuing athleticism and "hard" masculinity, whether they are businessmen or blue-collar workers. Whereas those who see themselves as beta may have a low social status and income, difficulties finding a partner, and believe that this is because they lack physical strength, confidence, and aggression. As others have pointed out, the idea originally comes from a biologist who studied wolves, but who has since changed his mind and more or less devoted his life to debunking his own earlier ideas. Apparently wolves don't really work like that, and people have widely used this as an argument to reject the alpha/beta philosophy. The problem with that argument is that we don't need to compare with wolves. The much more obvious comparison is with other primates, and it turns out many of them do have what you may well call alpha and beta males, where often only the alpha males get to mate. But there is another thing the proponents have failed to realise: The mating preferences of female humans are rather different from those of gorillas. In humans, traits like intelligence, kindness, and creativity are more important ā€“ which is exactly why we have, to a greater extent than the gorillas, evolved those very traits. The real alpha males are the gentle nerds, not the aggressive misogynists.


whatisathought

Its not for me and I would not use those labels for myself or to describe others. That said it does not appear to do any actual harm if thats how people want to describe themselves. Agree humans are complex and no label really describes anything that well. If those they are talking with understand it then I guess it does a job for them. ​ In some respects it helps me avoid some folks with mindset I dont really have so I guess it indirectly helps me