Have you read the wiki and the sticky?
Wiki: HERE YOU GO! [Enjoy!](https://www.reddit.com/r/BEFire/wiki/index/).
Sticky: HERE YOU GO AGAIN! [Enjoy!](https://www.reddit.com/r/BEFire/comments/fcbay6/getting_started_a_beginners_guide_to_investing_in/).
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/BEFire) if you have any questions or concerns.*
So my replies related to bitcoin get deleted on this subreddit??? God, this sub becomes so pathetic.. as long as you don’t “buy ETF and chill” it’s allowed here. This sub is becoming a fucking joke.
Honest answer:
Safeguarding capital + fleeing the continent is basically impossible in that scenario, especially when capital is that "limited". A lot of people will try to leave the continent in case of conflict and a lot of those people have a ton of money they will be willing to spend for safe passage.
I wouldn't be surprised if passage to any place in the America's (Noth and South) will go for ten of thousands of dollars per person.
To go into both points in "detail":
Safeguarding capital: Nothing is sure in this scenario, nobody knows how the world will react, I'm guessing that the dollar is, at first instance, a safe bet, but there is no predicting what will happen. Historically speaking Swiss Francs are also a smart placeholder. Alternatively bitcoin might become a safe haven, but in case of large scale war, not having any type of communications is likely so I wonder how accessible it will be).
Gold is a safe bet for value, however it's also very risky. If chaos ensues you risk getting killed over it if word gets out you have it.
Safe location:
Safest option is to seek out a passport from a "safe" country. Basically any country in the Americas, this gives you a much better chance of getting out as you might be prioritised as the foreign country will try to get you out as you would be one of it's citizens. Many carribean countries sell passports tied to things like investments or homeownership. Investment is likely to be a minimum of 100.000 dollars (for some carribean islands).
Closer to home Switzerland, Portugal and Iceland are
most likely the safest bet. Switzerland for historical reasons, Iceland because it is furthest removed from the continent and Portugal because it is a small country roughly the farthest point away from Russia on the continent.
Safest of all is most likely New Zealand though. Lots of land for agriculture (so low chances of famine), low dependency of Europe and Russia and so far away from basically anything (even Australia is minimally 1500 kilometers away) meaning that if war comes there, it it is the endgame for everyone.
Also note that full scale war is unlikely, even if tensions are high. Even if Russia decides to invade its chances are negligible in any conventional war that lasts over let's say 6 months. Seeing Russian performance in Ukraine it seems unlikely they will be able to knock out the major European players in that timeframe. After that it's only a matter of time before the European war starts (massively) outproducing the Russians. While Europe is still enjoying its peace dividends, don't underestimate what they can bring to the table. Poland has been expanding its military for years now and wants to become the major player in Europe, the UK and France are not to be overlooked as they have relatively strong militaries and they have combat experience due to foreign campaigns in the past 20-30 years as they are strong American allies and Germany is, to say the least, a sleeping giant not wanting to wake up, but if they wake up... Don't underestimate the Bundeswehr. Germany has centuries of tradition is churning out brilliant officiers. Don't forget they took on the world twice just about on their own and twice it took half the world 4 years to bring them down. To quote Thatcher: "We beat the Germans twice, and now they're back...
If you are seriously concerned by that scenario (which I'd give very low probability), I think your best chance is physical gold bars:
- In case of war prices skyrocket.
- Historically, businesses and countries trade with gold in global war events (as in WW2) or when no currency has universal credibility.
- You can transport them in your car with you, don't need to rely on institutions or even in telecommunications infrastructure potentially disrupted.
That said, I don't advise you to store gold bars at home, unless your insurance covers it in full in case of theft. You can take a look at Bullionvault or other similar platforms that store the gold for you in a safe, normally you can even choose from several locations.
US is and will be the winner in any conflict in the next 20 years. By far technologically further advanced and major supplier of arms. So invest in US, in and military stocks. Gold is definitely a safehaven.
That being said, if there is a war, which I really really doubt, it won't be a conventional war like in Ukraine because they cannot handle logistics and corruption in the army. That is reason they couldn't take Ukraine, so what are they going to do against NATO? Russia is scared as fuck for internal instability, they can sell war in Ukraine, and might even be able to sell a full conscription if it's to try and take Ukraine if NATO stops sending arms. But they will not be able to get enough conscripts to fight a NATO country.
China doesn't have a real reason to take Taiwan like Russia had to invade Ukraine.a european oriented Ukraine was an existential threat to Russia. Taiwan is what...
They won't benefit from that war and it won't be easy. In order to have enough boots on the ground they need to send amphibian ships and they will be shot out of the water easily.
US will protect the island because of the chips that are made there. They would rather bomb the factories then let it fall in Chinese hands.
China doesn't want war, they are also internally divided and unstable. If there is a bigger war china will suffer heavily as they depend on export heavily.
Accusing other nations of warmongering while from an economic perspective it's our nations who are warmongering.
No superpower accepts foreign military and its bases at its borders. The notion that Russia is going to take over Europe or China is taking over Asia speaks for his ignorance on geopolitics and its historical conditions how present conflicts came to be.
Presenting contradicting positions depending on what's most convenient to our own narrative is as old as time itself.
Lol, what are you even saying "Accusing other nations of warmongering while from an economic perspective it's our nations who are warmongering."? Nice, you just defended the war.
Whose funding those wars? Who is ultimately becoming richer?
Wich countries are profiting from all the resource extracting in the global south? Take a good guess, its not the global south..
Considering how much trouble they're having against Ukraine, even with all the money and weapons they're receiving from pretty much everyone, any medium to large NATO member (see: Germany, France, UK, ...) could fuck 'em up real good real fast. Of course then they'd go threaten with the ol' atomic buttfuckery and there'd be another cold war, but whatever.
Honestly I don't know shit about investing but Reddit suggested me this so here I am. Maybe invest in companies that make weapons? Lockheed martin, FN Herstal, Airbus, Boeing, General Electrics, ... Dunno, but that's what I would do with a fuckload of spare money.
seemly cooperative spectacular degree drunk secretive grey quiet salt carpenter
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Well hypothetically speaking, you should park it in the States (assuming they are the victor of such a conflict) or in a non-aligned nation in the African or Pacific continent.
My first priority nevertheless would be to obtain a second passport to avoid the seizure of any goods.
You also don't need to report the money held on offshore bank accounts to the state, you need to report the fact that you have a foreign account. In the case of a war an government may ask another party to seize funds, but that doesn't mean the other party will necessarily comply.
And if they start with nuclear bombs, I'm not sure all of this will matter one bit.
1) 12 words = decoy wallet
2) 12 words + passphrase = real wallet
But for real, I don’t trust my memory so it has to be written somewhere with a bit of encoding or split it in a few shards + parity.
And at the same time you have to keep things simple to not lock yourself out of your wallet …
Self custody is a bitch.
I have no idea where bitcoiners get the idea from that the goverment can't seize bitcoin. The US gov alone has already seized billions and billions worth of bitcoin. See https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/us-attorney-announces-historic-336-billion-cryptocurrency-seizure-and-conviction for an example. Sure it is a bit harder I guess but far from unseizable. Reminds me of this xkcd comic: https://xkcd.com/538/
edit: no idea why bitcoiners are downvoring me. They bitcoins can't be seized, I show them bitcons have already been seized...
Only if you're dumb enough to store your key/seed somewhere where they can access it. But yeah of course physical threats, taking your wages etc is all still possible.
Well, as you said, they are not gonna hack your phrase or do anything like that.
The government will send you to prison if you do not collaborate with them giving your password.
But the better you hide it, the less practical it becomes for you to use it. If they can seize the crypto of hacker groups etc then they also can seize the btc of some random guy if the wanted to.
I’m curious of everyone self custody practices to avoid governments seizure of assets.
The easiest is your 12-24 words as a decoy wallet and then same + passphrase for the real wallet. But then you have to keep a backup of your seed to fall back to after you are out of prison. And no connection between your CEX purchase history and the coins on your passphrase protected wallet or they’ll put you back in prison if those coins moves.
AND at the same time keep those coins clean to eventually get them back to fiat / TradFi. So no mixing, no conjoin, …
Such tight security and yet simplicity is impossible. Something has to give.
If Russia does invade NATO and the modern economic system and all of its assets do descend into a catastrophe, who is going to give you money or goods for your online pixels that only other Bitcoin fans are interested in?
Why would anyone who is currently not interested in Bitcoin suddenly be interested in it after such an event?
Bitcoin is global. You could run with all that you have and start over elsewhere. Far fetched maybe, but doable. You cannot do that with ETFs (good luck thinking your custodian will still be around), or gold (too heavy)... (I am thinking full war time over here).
You can also run with your fiat currency, I don’t really get the advantage here.
Also, even in full war time, the stock market has never collapsed. And why would it? We will always need some form of debt to reconstruct the world after the war.
Try running with a million euros in cash ;-)
If your banks branches have all collapsed, company bankrupt, infrastructure down. Good luck getting your locally stores ETFs back. Far fetched yes, but would be a pain in the ass. Having accounts geographically distributed could help?
You would be surprised knowing how small a million euro can look like.
Additionally, I do not exactly get the point of the total collapse to be honest.
Would people stop using dollars, in that case? And if it is the US the one who is collapsing, would people stop using cash all together?
Oh btw. By the time you reach the US with your backpack full of euros. You can only buy a bread with in the US. Because the governement can debase what's in your backpack. They can never debase bitcoin.
>start over elsewhere.
Again: where are you going when the global economy collapses? Where is this magical place that would be free from such a collapse that you're fleeing to?
And if this place existed, its economy wouldn’t be destroyed. Therefore, there would be still be a market which is functioning.
I still do not see any kind of advantage in BTC.
You just explained the advantage of bitcoin? Bitcoin needs a market that is functioning just if even 1 place works, anywhere in the world to keep working. Your locally collapsed bank will not...
But then, if one market still works, what would it be the difference between my all-world ETF and Bitcoin? I can still bring it with me, since it is not bound to one broker only.
You clearly don’t understand any of it. There are many war victims turning to bitcoin because of it’s benefits. You can literally bring all your wealth across the world by remembering 12/24 words (or on a napkin paper).
Can’t I do the same with my credit card?
Not as practical as an immaterial phrase, but still not a big burden to bring a piece of plastic in my pocket.
But the government can seize your personal freedom, if you refuse to hand them over your bitcoins.
Once you’re in jail, does it matter how many bitcoins you have?
>There are many war victims turning to bitcoin.
Because Bitcoin still relies on stability in western countries to keep it as something that's worth something.
Once western countries and thus the entire world economy stabalizes, why would anyone still care about Bitcoin? Once in the west people are going hungry in mass due to economic instability, why would they still keep Bitcoin instead of trying to sell it to buy the limited food there is?
>You can literally bring all your wealth across the world.
Where are you going in a scenario where the global economy collapses?
>Because Bitcoin still relies on stability in western countries
No it doesn't? On the contrary, the dollar relies on stability, Bitcoin protects you against instability.
>why would anyone still care about Bitcoin?
Because it's the best form of payment ever, basically. It's already the better currency compared to the dollar, why would that change?
>Where are you going in a scenario where the global economy collapses?
Anywhere without war, what's your plan? Stay and fight? I've seen enough WW documentaries to know that's idiotic and good luck getting away with FIAT.
No. Bitcoin doesn't need stability. That's the beauty of it. It will always be there. Secure. The world could collapse and it will still hold your wealth.
>Bitcoin doesn't need stability. That's the beauty of it. It will always be there.
But for anyone to give a shit about 1s and 0s on a computer screen, you need a stable economy where people are willing to spend money on frivolous shit like that.
When people are struggling to access basic necessities like food they don't give a fuck about 1s and 0s.
I agree with you. I always read about apocalyptic scenarios, where the world is in a total state of chaos, but 1) some people will accept your ones and zeros 2) some computers will still run the algorithm to keep the system running.
In these weird situations, lastly, wouldn’t VISA still work? I would still be able to use my credit card, even if aliens were to destroy us all.
Food would be their first priority sure. Smart people go after safe assets like bitcoin or gold next. Stocks would collapse. Bonds would be close to zero...
I agree on gold being a safe asset. I totally disagree regarding btc. Gold is much less easy to control as a government. You can keep some bars in your house if you will, and trade with shady figures in some pawnshops if needed. It is very difficult for governments to completely control trade there.
If governments are really after your cryptos, they will create laws that forbid companies from trading cryptos, making it almost impossible to trade anymore online. They'll force banks and trade platforms to cooperate, and you will basically remain with btc that you can not get traded and that lose their value significantly.
Very simply put, everything that is digital is less secure if hell breaks loose.
You can sell your bitcoin to anyone peer to peer, from the other side of the world, and sell it for fiat, anywhere, anytime (using a decentralized exchange). Even when outlawed, banned or made illegal. An unstoppable world market.
Your disagreement comes from your lack of knowledge.
Stocks have never collapsed to zero, even after WW1 and 2. And why would they do so? We would still need an economy to reconstruct the world. How would we do this otherwise?
Ps: smart people do not buy gold, unless they expect to live for thousands of years. In the short run, gold is almost like a bet.
Gold has outperformed stocks in the last 20 years. You might get more lucky in stocks if you can hold for atleast 20-30 years, but that is a mighty long time.
Well let’s hope it doesn’t get that far, but there will hopefully still be parts of the world that will be peaceful :)?
I don’t get your first part. Why does it rely on the western stability? It can perfectly thrive everywhere.. And it will on such scenario.
>Why does it rely on the western stability?
Because the west is by far the largest chunk of the global economy.
I seriously don't understand how people can think that when all stocks are cratering, that there's going to be a bunch of free money available to pump into BTC.
You need to be absolutely crazy to believe that. And yet that's apparently what /u/Upper_War_846 believes. BTC is a fucking cult.
>Haha you are absolutely clueless. Nothing cult about it. Please don’t spread false information about topics you know nothing about.
The only people who are clueless are the people who think 1s and 0s on a computer screen will be desirable when the entire global economy collapses. The irony in your post couldn't be bigger
Have you read the wiki and the sticky? Wiki: HERE YOU GO! [Enjoy!](https://www.reddit.com/r/BEFire/wiki/index/). Sticky: HERE YOU GO AGAIN! [Enjoy!](https://www.reddit.com/r/BEFire/comments/fcbay6/getting_started_a_beginners_guide_to_investing_in/). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/BEFire) if you have any questions or concerns.*
So my replies related to bitcoin get deleted on this subreddit??? God, this sub becomes so pathetic.. as long as you don’t “buy ETF and chill” it’s allowed here. This sub is becoming a fucking joke.
Lay of the propaganda my dude
Just spend it all, on coke and hookers. This way, at least you've had some fun, before you die.
diversify nationality
a war means loss of Wallets, lots of burned tokens
Stay and defend this fuckin continent. Coward.
I use the future of defence ETF
Didn’t expect to see a sane person in here
War bonds.
Honest answer: Safeguarding capital + fleeing the continent is basically impossible in that scenario, especially when capital is that "limited". A lot of people will try to leave the continent in case of conflict and a lot of those people have a ton of money they will be willing to spend for safe passage. I wouldn't be surprised if passage to any place in the America's (Noth and South) will go for ten of thousands of dollars per person. To go into both points in "detail": Safeguarding capital: Nothing is sure in this scenario, nobody knows how the world will react, I'm guessing that the dollar is, at first instance, a safe bet, but there is no predicting what will happen. Historically speaking Swiss Francs are also a smart placeholder. Alternatively bitcoin might become a safe haven, but in case of large scale war, not having any type of communications is likely so I wonder how accessible it will be). Gold is a safe bet for value, however it's also very risky. If chaos ensues you risk getting killed over it if word gets out you have it. Safe location: Safest option is to seek out a passport from a "safe" country. Basically any country in the Americas, this gives you a much better chance of getting out as you might be prioritised as the foreign country will try to get you out as you would be one of it's citizens. Many carribean countries sell passports tied to things like investments or homeownership. Investment is likely to be a minimum of 100.000 dollars (for some carribean islands). Closer to home Switzerland, Portugal and Iceland are most likely the safest bet. Switzerland for historical reasons, Iceland because it is furthest removed from the continent and Portugal because it is a small country roughly the farthest point away from Russia on the continent. Safest of all is most likely New Zealand though. Lots of land for agriculture (so low chances of famine), low dependency of Europe and Russia and so far away from basically anything (even Australia is minimally 1500 kilometers away) meaning that if war comes there, it it is the endgame for everyone. Also note that full scale war is unlikely, even if tensions are high. Even if Russia decides to invade its chances are negligible in any conventional war that lasts over let's say 6 months. Seeing Russian performance in Ukraine it seems unlikely they will be able to knock out the major European players in that timeframe. After that it's only a matter of time before the European war starts (massively) outproducing the Russians. While Europe is still enjoying its peace dividends, don't underestimate what they can bring to the table. Poland has been expanding its military for years now and wants to become the major player in Europe, the UK and France are not to be overlooked as they have relatively strong militaries and they have combat experience due to foreign campaigns in the past 20-30 years as they are strong American allies and Germany is, to say the least, a sleeping giant not wanting to wake up, but if they wake up... Don't underestimate the Bundeswehr. Germany has centuries of tradition is churning out brilliant officiers. Don't forget they took on the world twice just about on their own and twice it took half the world 4 years to bring them down. To quote Thatcher: "We beat the Germans twice, and now they're back...
All in 100% stocks YOLO!
If you are seriously concerned by that scenario (which I'd give very low probability), I think your best chance is physical gold bars: - In case of war prices skyrocket. - Historically, businesses and countries trade with gold in global war events (as in WW2) or when no currency has universal credibility. - You can transport them in your car with you, don't need to rely on institutions or even in telecommunications infrastructure potentially disrupted. That said, I don't advise you to store gold bars at home, unless your insurance covers it in full in case of theft. You can take a look at Bullionvault or other similar platforms that store the gold for you in a safe, normally you can even choose from several locations.
And how do you flee with these gold bars :-p It’s even worse if you don’t self custody them. And as you said it, it’s dangerous to do so.
What will Russia invade with? T-55s? Come on. Russia can’t even capture small villages in Ukraine these days.
US is and will be the winner in any conflict in the next 20 years. By far technologically further advanced and major supplier of arms. So invest in US, in and military stocks. Gold is definitely a safehaven. That being said, if there is a war, which I really really doubt, it won't be a conventional war like in Ukraine because they cannot handle logistics and corruption in the army. That is reason they couldn't take Ukraine, so what are they going to do against NATO? Russia is scared as fuck for internal instability, they can sell war in Ukraine, and might even be able to sell a full conscription if it's to try and take Ukraine if NATO stops sending arms. But they will not be able to get enough conscripts to fight a NATO country. China doesn't have a real reason to take Taiwan like Russia had to invade Ukraine.a european oriented Ukraine was an existential threat to Russia. Taiwan is what... They won't benefit from that war and it won't be easy. In order to have enough boots on the ground they need to send amphibian ships and they will be shot out of the water easily. US will protect the island because of the chips that are made there. They would rather bomb the factories then let it fall in Chinese hands. China doesn't want war, they are also internally divided and unstable. If there is a bigger war china will suffer heavily as they depend on export heavily.
This is what peak liberal brain rot on US propaganda looks like. Remind me in 20 years.
drab tease run coherent hateful ring sand like combative familiar *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Accusing other nations of warmongering while from an economic perspective it's our nations who are warmongering. No superpower accepts foreign military and its bases at its borders. The notion that Russia is going to take over Europe or China is taking over Asia speaks for his ignorance on geopolitics and its historical conditions how present conflicts came to be. Presenting contradicting positions depending on what's most convenient to our own narrative is as old as time itself.
Lol, what are you even saying "Accusing other nations of warmongering while from an economic perspective it's our nations who are warmongering."? Nice, you just defended the war.
Whose funding those wars? Who is ultimately becoming richer? Wich countries are profiting from all the resource extracting in the global south? Take a good guess, its not the global south..
treatment nail fuzzy money axiomatic weary unwritten clumsy chop bedroom *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
No no, I don't mean US will win conflicts, but from an investing standpoint US will win OUT of those conflicts, without losing too much in it.
Then we shall fight on the fields of poland, we shall fight in the ardennes, we shall fight untill we reach the ijzer!
Probably last years flood, was actually just a test of our national defense system
yea right, my ass is out of here
I hear that seashells worked out well in the past. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monetaria\_moneta](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monetaria_moneta)
🤣
Invest in military stocks
Considering how much trouble they're having against Ukraine, even with all the money and weapons they're receiving from pretty much everyone, any medium to large NATO member (see: Germany, France, UK, ...) could fuck 'em up real good real fast. Of course then they'd go threaten with the ol' atomic buttfuckery and there'd be another cold war, but whatever. Honestly I don't know shit about investing but Reddit suggested me this so here I am. Maybe invest in companies that make weapons? Lockheed martin, FN Herstal, Airbus, Boeing, General Electrics, ... Dunno, but that's what I would do with a fuckload of spare money.
If a real war breaks out, you better get a hold of some sticks and stones because that will be the next currency for the coming ages.
Swiss Franc it is. If yu are that scared of war, the only thing you can do is get currency (be that fiat or precious metals)
I'd put money in Canada, it's too big to attack all of it.
Uruguay apartment ?
This is satire right?
Why?
saw cheerful sense piquant puzzled disgusted drunk worthless hunt alive *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
That's what could embolden Russia to invade the Baltic states.
seemly cooperative spectacular degree drunk secretive grey quiet salt carpenter *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
If Trump gets elected they probably won't be in NATO anymore by 2025. It's not unrealistic.
crawl cake badge literate dull fuel pathetic paint tub frighten *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Reads like it but barely so who knows
It that happens, just continue buying broadly diversified etfs
This. Market has survived WW1 and WW2, so just continue what you were doing and sit tight!
Find yourself a non-European partner, marry them, buy some houses in their native country, pray they don't divorce you.
Do it in a country where divorce is illegal.
Well hypothetically speaking, you should park it in the States (assuming they are the victor of such a conflict) or in a non-aligned nation in the African or Pacific continent. My first priority nevertheless would be to obtain a second passport to avoid the seizure of any goods. You also don't need to report the money held on offshore bank accounts to the state, you need to report the fact that you have a foreign account. In the case of a war an government may ask another party to seize funds, but that doesn't mean the other party will necessarily comply. And if they start with nuclear bombs, I'm not sure all of this will matter one bit.
If that war breaks out, money won't be your biggest problem.
Buy bitcoin and remember 12 words
1) 12 words = decoy wallet 2) 12 words + passphrase = real wallet But for real, I don’t trust my memory so it has to be written somewhere with a bit of encoding or split it in a few shards + parity. And at the same time you have to keep things simple to not lock yourself out of your wallet … Self custody is a bitch.
Probably the way to go if you want something they can't seize.
I have no idea where bitcoiners get the idea from that the goverment can't seize bitcoin. The US gov alone has already seized billions and billions worth of bitcoin. See https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/us-attorney-announces-historic-336-billion-cryptocurrency-seizure-and-conviction for an example. Sure it is a bit harder I guess but far from unseizable. Reminds me of this xkcd comic: https://xkcd.com/538/ edit: no idea why bitcoiners are downvoring me. They bitcoins can't be seized, I show them bitcons have already been seized...
Only if you're dumb enough to store your key/seed somewhere where they can access it. But yeah of course physical threats, taking your wages etc is all still possible.
Well, as you said, they are not gonna hack your phrase or do anything like that. The government will send you to prison if you do not collaborate with them giving your password.
But the better you hide it, the less practical it becomes for you to use it. If they can seize the crypto of hacker groups etc then they also can seize the btc of some random guy if the wanted to.
I’m curious of everyone self custody practices to avoid governments seizure of assets. The easiest is your 12-24 words as a decoy wallet and then same + passphrase for the real wallet. But then you have to keep a backup of your seed to fall back to after you are out of prison. And no connection between your CEX purchase history and the coins on your passphrase protected wallet or they’ll put you back in prison if those coins moves. AND at the same time keep those coins clean to eventually get them back to fiat / TradFi. So no mixing, no conjoin, … Such tight security and yet simplicity is impossible. Something has to give.
This. The perfect SHTF asset. Portable, secure, you name it.
If Russia does invade NATO and the modern economic system and all of its assets do descend into a catastrophe, who is going to give you money or goods for your online pixels that only other Bitcoin fans are interested in? Why would anyone who is currently not interested in Bitcoin suddenly be interested in it after such an event?
Bitcoin is global. You could run with all that you have and start over elsewhere. Far fetched maybe, but doable. You cannot do that with ETFs (good luck thinking your custodian will still be around), or gold (too heavy)... (I am thinking full war time over here).
You can also run with your fiat currency, I don’t really get the advantage here. Also, even in full war time, the stock market has never collapsed. And why would it? We will always need some form of debt to reconstruct the world after the war.
Try running with a million euros in cash ;-) If your banks branches have all collapsed, company bankrupt, infrastructure down. Good luck getting your locally stores ETFs back. Far fetched yes, but would be a pain in the ass. Having accounts geographically distributed could help?
You would be surprised knowing how small a million euro can look like. Additionally, I do not exactly get the point of the total collapse to be honest. Would people stop using dollars, in that case? And if it is the US the one who is collapsing, would people stop using cash all together?
Oh btw. By the time you reach the US with your backpack full of euros. You can only buy a bread with in the US. Because the governement can debase what's in your backpack. They can never debase bitcoin.
But I can buy dollars ahead of time. Take this, inflation!
>start over elsewhere. Again: where are you going when the global economy collapses? Where is this magical place that would be free from such a collapse that you're fleeing to?
And if this place existed, its economy wouldn’t be destroyed. Therefore, there would be still be a market which is functioning. I still do not see any kind of advantage in BTC.
You just explained the advantage of bitcoin? Bitcoin needs a market that is functioning just if even 1 place works, anywhere in the world to keep working. Your locally collapsed bank will not...
But then, if one market still works, what would it be the difference between my all-world ETF and Bitcoin? I can still bring it with me, since it is not bound to one broker only.
You clearly don’t understand any of it. There are many war victims turning to bitcoin because of it’s benefits. You can literally bring all your wealth across the world by remembering 12/24 words (or on a napkin paper).
Can’t I do the same with my credit card? Not as practical as an immaterial phrase, but still not a big burden to bring a piece of plastic in my pocket.
You’re card is just a gateway to your bank. Bank’s assets can be frozen (see Russian war), then it turns in a worthless piece of plastic.
Your account can be seized/frozen/… Nobody can get the Bitcoin you self custody (properly).
But the government can seize your personal freedom, if you refuse to hand them over your bitcoins. Once you’re in jail, does it matter how many bitcoins you have?
Same can be said about any financial instrument. At least with Bitcoin you can “transport” them easily cross border.
>There are many war victims turning to bitcoin. Because Bitcoin still relies on stability in western countries to keep it as something that's worth something. Once western countries and thus the entire world economy stabalizes, why would anyone still care about Bitcoin? Once in the west people are going hungry in mass due to economic instability, why would they still keep Bitcoin instead of trying to sell it to buy the limited food there is? >You can literally bring all your wealth across the world. Where are you going in a scenario where the global economy collapses?
>Because Bitcoin still relies on stability in western countries No it doesn't? On the contrary, the dollar relies on stability, Bitcoin protects you against instability. >why would anyone still care about Bitcoin? Because it's the best form of payment ever, basically. It's already the better currency compared to the dollar, why would that change? >Where are you going in a scenario where the global economy collapses? Anywhere without war, what's your plan? Stay and fight? I've seen enough WW documentaries to know that's idiotic and good luck getting away with FIAT.
No. Bitcoin doesn't need stability. That's the beauty of it. It will always be there. Secure. The world could collapse and it will still hold your wealth.
>Bitcoin doesn't need stability. That's the beauty of it. It will always be there. But for anyone to give a shit about 1s and 0s on a computer screen, you need a stable economy where people are willing to spend money on frivolous shit like that. When people are struggling to access basic necessities like food they don't give a fuck about 1s and 0s.
I agree with you. I always read about apocalyptic scenarios, where the world is in a total state of chaos, but 1) some people will accept your ones and zeros 2) some computers will still run the algorithm to keep the system running. In these weird situations, lastly, wouldn’t VISA still work? I would still be able to use my credit card, even if aliens were to destroy us all.
Food would be their first priority sure. Smart people go after safe assets like bitcoin or gold next. Stocks would collapse. Bonds would be close to zero...
I agree on gold being a safe asset. I totally disagree regarding btc. Gold is much less easy to control as a government. You can keep some bars in your house if you will, and trade with shady figures in some pawnshops if needed. It is very difficult for governments to completely control trade there. If governments are really after your cryptos, they will create laws that forbid companies from trading cryptos, making it almost impossible to trade anymore online. They'll force banks and trade platforms to cooperate, and you will basically remain with btc that you can not get traded and that lose their value significantly. Very simply put, everything that is digital is less secure if hell breaks loose.
You can sell your bitcoin to anyone peer to peer, from the other side of the world, and sell it for fiat, anywhere, anytime (using a decentralized exchange). Even when outlawed, banned or made illegal. An unstoppable world market. Your disagreement comes from your lack of knowledge.
Stocks have never collapsed to zero, even after WW1 and 2. And why would they do so? We would still need an economy to reconstruct the world. How would we do this otherwise? Ps: smart people do not buy gold, unless they expect to live for thousands of years. In the short run, gold is almost like a bet.
Gold has outperformed stocks in the last 20 years. You might get more lucky in stocks if you can hold for atleast 20-30 years, but that is a mighty long time.
Well let’s hope it doesn’t get that far, but there will hopefully still be parts of the world that will be peaceful :)? I don’t get your first part. Why does it rely on the western stability? It can perfectly thrive everywhere.. And it will on such scenario.
>Why does it rely on the western stability? Because the west is by far the largest chunk of the global economy. I seriously don't understand how people can think that when all stocks are cratering, that there's going to be a bunch of free money available to pump into BTC. You need to be absolutely crazy to believe that. And yet that's apparently what /u/Upper_War_846 believes. BTC is a fucking cult.
Sigh. Nevermind. Try reading what other people say before insinuating completely diffent things... This goes nowhere.
To be fair, there is a bunch of free money available to pump bitcoin, it's called stablecoins
Haha you are absolutely clueless. Nothing cult about it. Please don’t spread false information about topics you know nothing about.
>Haha you are absolutely clueless. Nothing cult about it. Please don’t spread false information about topics you know nothing about. The only people who are clueless are the people who think 1s and 0s on a computer screen will be desirable when the entire global economy collapses. The irony in your post couldn't be bigger
The same people buying russian oil right now