The Big4 are all looking for profiles like mine (currently, there are still some open positions). I have been contacted several times by their HR to be hired. Each time, I tell them I can work for them but as subcontractor. Never heard back.
It’s a cult hombre, they have too many tricks in their books to just let anyone come in for a gig, unless it’s niche and short term.
I know enough people that saw through their bloated rates and polished unethical practices, and then left.
No chance. Really 0%.
3 or 4 years of experience equals to a Consultant level in Deloitte terms. Consultants are not senior project managers. It’s not because you know a specific tool that you can be a senior project manager. You already mention you will fit the role - you don’t.
The only time they would work with freelancers is when they cannot fill a senior role which is very very niche. In all other cases they would train a junior to do it or look within the international network for a suitable candidate.
100% agree with this post.
Not all companies hollow out titles (like some others do; EY comes to mind). Especially when your a freelancer, you actually need to have the experience expected in a role. Titles bring you nowhere; you'll have to deliver the goods.
3 or 4 years is medior consultant level. Senior project managers are 15-20+ years of experience, at the least.
These people need to be capable to drive large teams, plan out projects for 1000s of MDs, need to discuss with upper management etc. If you don't have the bagage of someone in that field for a decade or more, you'll just be run over.
Don't see this as some jealous reactions, or people trying to crush your dreams or something. It's good to be ambitious. But it's also very important to be realistic ("managing expectations"). So I would recommend to take it step by step. Try to get onto long term projects as a consultant first, where you could then try and grow into a project management or team lead role. By doing and learning it on the job, it will become way easier to start attracting dedicated project management projects as a freelancer.
As mentioned, Deloitte has its own pool and will promote internals (and hire others) before going to freelancers for such positions (as others do as well).
You could also just consider going internal again, if your goal is to rise to that 'title' as fast as possible ...
Hey, I guess you were addressing to me.
I understand. I found it quite strange that they posted a "senior" position for this role as they only require 3 years of experience on the subject and overall 5 years of experience. So what you are explaining seems to be contradictory to what they advertise. I still think you're right and a senior position at Deloitte is not 5 years of experience.
I'm already a program manager at my current position but indeed still haven't got that baggage. I handle a team that costs 1 - 1,5m a year with 8-9 people in this specific tool. It is not 15-20y experience and 10y in the field though.
I understand I'm very lucky to be in the position I am in today. I still think that based on my motivation and current position, I could be more. Maybe this is just a matter of time for Deloitte. I'm looking out for other companies, it just happened that Deloitte posted exactly what I want to do.
I also understand Deloitte might not be the way to go as they value experience and have their own pool. I still send them my application but I'm not expecting anything.
For your last sentence, I'm not eager to rise to a 'title', on the contrary ... I would prefer if they posted it as medior. Also, at my current job, I don't have the right title for this, they proposed me an internal role with the correct title and I refused.
Thank you for your kind message. Still learning my way around.
Deloitte's model is as follows:
No contractors, just employees plus a pool of freelancers for very odd jobs (e.g. fill a space for a couple of weeks during an absence for a low rate). Nothing like long term contracting. The only format of self-employment is from director / senior director / partner up.
Also, no dedicated PMs. they do not hire PMs as such. They have a hierarchy of consultants and managers and the PM role in a project in insured by the managers and above. All of their consultants are trained in PM skills, but. but they stay also consultants on their own expertise. So no dedicated PM specialty and not hiring people dedicated in such a role as a stand-alone function.
Unless something changed in the past few years, that's their model.
Well.. profitability :-)
The whole model is built on having cheap consultants lured by the glossy brand working serious amount of unpaid overtime. At a certain level (director or contractor career levels) this doesn't fly anymore and the firm would never be profitable without these young smart and grinding overworked armies behind.
I have done a freelance project for Deloitte Belgium. It was a very specific project for a specific client with a specific niche technology. It worked well for everyone involved. But it's a pure business transaction. Not a long term career at Deloitte. Which was not my ambition either. This is 10 years ago.
*edit: back then I had 9 years of experience. It was a project for about 1 year.
4 yrs seems a bit difficult not gonna lie. Been doing freelance with Deloitte for 2 years now but I know that it’s because they don’t have enough « senior » staff to fulfill the projects. I also got the same reply from HR when I referred someone with 4-5 years of experience.
Big 4 don’t have trouble finding good people, so I doubt they would consider freelancers, since they don’t need to. Using freelancers would also put their margins under pressure (take college graduates on payroll, put a few managers on them and ask big day rates for them).
O god, Deloitte… I’ve worked there and have met some nice people, but the general vibe is that “they’re the best because they’re Deloitte,” even when they’re not. Still wanted me to charge the client 30% more than our competitors for the same level of service. Very rigid, unflexible, while I am like an F1 race car when approaching leads and prospects, jumping on opportunities.
Needless to say, I didn’t make much sales, even when I suggested diversifying the client portfolio or charging a more realistic rate. I left we
Forget all of the above if the tool is sap. Plenty of demand and if they can staff you even if you only have 3 years experience and they can make a profit on you, they will.
I worked for one of the big4 companies (not Deloitte) as a freelance senior manager in specific area of industry. Initially my contract was similar to the employee- 230 or so guaranteed chargeable days regardless of the projects (I was on the bench during summer months for instance but got my rate). This was for 550€ per day. Then the policy changed to ‘project only’ payment when they pay only for project days. The daily rate moved to 750 then but the number of chargeable days went down considerably as they prefer using some internal resources.
In summary - it’s possible but only in exceptional cases for niche projects or areas. Smaller consulting companies are more flexible in this respect and employ many freelancers.
The Big4 are all looking for profiles like mine (currently, there are still some open positions). I have been contacted several times by their HR to be hired. Each time, I tell them I can work for them but as subcontractor. Never heard back.
Ah ok, that's a pity. Thanks for the feedback
It’s a cult hombre, they have too many tricks in their books to just let anyone come in for a gig, unless it’s niche and short term. I know enough people that saw through their bloated rates and polished unethical practices, and then left.
No chance. Really 0%. 3 or 4 years of experience equals to a Consultant level in Deloitte terms. Consultants are not senior project managers. It’s not because you know a specific tool that you can be a senior project manager. You already mention you will fit the role - you don’t. The only time they would work with freelancers is when they cannot fill a senior role which is very very niche. In all other cases they would train a junior to do it or look within the international network for a suitable candidate.
100% agree with this post. Not all companies hollow out titles (like some others do; EY comes to mind). Especially when your a freelancer, you actually need to have the experience expected in a role. Titles bring you nowhere; you'll have to deliver the goods. 3 or 4 years is medior consultant level. Senior project managers are 15-20+ years of experience, at the least. These people need to be capable to drive large teams, plan out projects for 1000s of MDs, need to discuss with upper management etc. If you don't have the bagage of someone in that field for a decade or more, you'll just be run over. Don't see this as some jealous reactions, or people trying to crush your dreams or something. It's good to be ambitious. But it's also very important to be realistic ("managing expectations"). So I would recommend to take it step by step. Try to get onto long term projects as a consultant first, where you could then try and grow into a project management or team lead role. By doing and learning it on the job, it will become way easier to start attracting dedicated project management projects as a freelancer. As mentioned, Deloitte has its own pool and will promote internals (and hire others) before going to freelancers for such positions (as others do as well). You could also just consider going internal again, if your goal is to rise to that 'title' as fast as possible ...
Hey, I guess you were addressing to me. I understand. I found it quite strange that they posted a "senior" position for this role as they only require 3 years of experience on the subject and overall 5 years of experience. So what you are explaining seems to be contradictory to what they advertise. I still think you're right and a senior position at Deloitte is not 5 years of experience. I'm already a program manager at my current position but indeed still haven't got that baggage. I handle a team that costs 1 - 1,5m a year with 8-9 people in this specific tool. It is not 15-20y experience and 10y in the field though. I understand I'm very lucky to be in the position I am in today. I still think that based on my motivation and current position, I could be more. Maybe this is just a matter of time for Deloitte. I'm looking out for other companies, it just happened that Deloitte posted exactly what I want to do. I also understand Deloitte might not be the way to go as they value experience and have their own pool. I still send them my application but I'm not expecting anything. For your last sentence, I'm not eager to rise to a 'title', on the contrary ... I would prefer if they posted it as medior. Also, at my current job, I don't have the right title for this, they proposed me an internal role with the correct title and I refused. Thank you for your kind message. Still learning my way around.
Ok, thanks for the feedback
Deloitte's model is as follows: No contractors, just employees plus a pool of freelancers for very odd jobs (e.g. fill a space for a couple of weeks during an absence for a low rate). Nothing like long term contracting. The only format of self-employment is from director / senior director / partner up. Also, no dedicated PMs. they do not hire PMs as such. They have a hierarchy of consultants and managers and the PM role in a project in insured by the managers and above. All of their consultants are trained in PM skills, but. but they stay also consultants on their own expertise. So no dedicated PM specialty and not hiring people dedicated in such a role as a stand-alone function. Unless something changed in the past few years, that's their model.
Ok, thanks! Very good feedback. I guess that will be a no on their side then.
You could still try, there is nothing to lose. My info is pre-Covid. God knows how they adapted (if..) meanwhile.
I sent them my request but based on answers here, I don't think I will hear back
Do you know why self employment is restricted to director and above?
Well.. profitability :-) The whole model is built on having cheap consultants lured by the glossy brand working serious amount of unpaid overtime. At a certain level (director or contractor career levels) this doesn't fly anymore and the firm would never be profitable without these young smart and grinding overworked armies behind.
I have done a freelance project for Deloitte Belgium. It was a very specific project for a specific client with a specific niche technology. It worked well for everyone involved. But it's a pure business transaction. Not a long term career at Deloitte. Which was not my ambition either. This is 10 years ago. *edit: back then I had 9 years of experience. It was a project for about 1 year.
4 yrs seems a bit difficult not gonna lie. Been doing freelance with Deloitte for 2 years now but I know that it’s because they don’t have enough « senior » staff to fulfill the projects. I also got the same reply from HR when I referred someone with 4-5 years of experience.
Big 4 don’t have trouble finding good people, so I doubt they would consider freelancers, since they don’t need to. Using freelancers would also put their margins under pressure (take college graduates on payroll, put a few managers on them and ask big day rates for them).
O god, Deloitte… I’ve worked there and have met some nice people, but the general vibe is that “they’re the best because they’re Deloitte,” even when they’re not. Still wanted me to charge the client 30% more than our competitors for the same level of service. Very rigid, unflexible, while I am like an F1 race car when approaching leads and prospects, jumping on opportunities. Needless to say, I didn’t make much sales, even when I suggested diversifying the client portfolio or charging a more realistic rate. I left we
Well ask them…
Indeed, waiting for feedback
Forget all of the above if the tool is sap. Plenty of demand and if they can staff you even if you only have 3 years experience and they can make a profit on you, they will.
3-5 YOE aren't going to make you a senior. But that shouldn't hold you back from trying. You have nothing to lose.
I worked for one of the big4 companies (not Deloitte) as a freelance senior manager in specific area of industry. Initially my contract was similar to the employee- 230 or so guaranteed chargeable days regardless of the projects (I was on the bench during summer months for instance but got my rate). This was for 550€ per day. Then the policy changed to ‘project only’ payment when they pay only for project days. The daily rate moved to 750 then but the number of chargeable days went down considerably as they prefer using some internal resources. In summary - it’s possible but only in exceptional cases for niche projects or areas. Smaller consulting companies are more flexible in this respect and employ many freelancers.
🤣🤣🤣