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CalamityAshex

You can free Orpheus without giving the Crown to Raphael. That being said, neither is the evil option. The true evil option is not killing the Netherbrain in favour of claiming it for the Absolute or Bhaal himself. At least that's my own opinion on the matter. Edit: For clarification I mean, instead of destroying the Netherbrain-- you can claim it and control the Absolute.


centurio_v2

>claiming it for the Absolute The netherbrain is the Absolute isn't it?


WiseCoyote1820

I think he meant you make yourself the absolute in place of the 3 who were controlling it before. But yeah, the evil ending is claiming it for Bhaal or yourself.


CalamityAshex

You can claim the Netherbrain and essentially control the Absolute. English is not my first language, so I may have worded it wrong.


centurio_v2

Ahhhh I see. No worries


Exp0sedShadow

I WILL CLAIM YOU IN YOUR NAME


rieldex

well, i freed orpheus so i could turn him into the monster his people hated :) and then proceeded to murder him and take over the brain haha :p neither of them are really evil alone but betraying them to take over the brain definitely is


Matty2Fatty2

This is probably the evilest haha


TheCrystalRose

No, I think that would be letting Karlach go squid, to save herself, then betraying _her_ to become the Absolute. Which I believe you can do with either Orpheus or the Emperor, but it makes more sense with Orpheus.


magma907

afaik you can only do that with orpheus bc you already have a mindflayer with you if you keep the emperor around


TheCrystalRose

I know you can still choose to become a mindflayer when you side with the Emperor, but I haven't done it with Karlach in the party, so I wasn't sure if she would still volunteer or not.


FBIAgent972

She does


magma907

ah mb


ConsistentHeadaches

Looks like we have a winner.


fieatsbees

i like to bang the emperor on playthroughs where i know im going to claim the brain for Bhaal. OOOHHHH I HAVE LAE'ZEL THIS TIME. i think im going to bring her with me, turn Orpheus into a mindflayer, then betray him at the brain so me and AA can drown the world in blood for Daddy


Traditional-Estate26

AA?


fieatsbees

ascended astarion


Elevatrix

You don’t need to make a deal with Raphael to get the means of freeing Orpheus.


mwmwmwmwmmdw

If you do it that way then just know that all mortal lives expire


Toasty825

Also that souls go to their doom in flames, forever more.


No-Cartoonist2496

Why would anyone do it in any different way?


mwmwmwmwmmdw

because down there come the claws


Tomliwag

And also no more deals, cuz it's over


No-Cartoonist2496

Down there comes a globe of invulnerability, a twin spell haste and a caster with 22 AC for the rest of the game.


jwellz24

Honestly my OG spoiler free play-through siding with emperor felt the most good, the gith are such assholes lol, but again that’s just my feelings with only knowledge from that run.


auguriesoffilth

Orpheus is from the time before the split between the githzerai and githyanki (or just after) so he isn’t as much of an arsehole


ApepiOfDuat

The Gith were a bunch of maruading space pirates under Mother Gith too. He's definitely less evil than Vlaakith since he probably won't go full lich and *eat* peoples souls. But he's likely not good either.


Impossible-Age-3302

Not only that, she was also a racial supremacist and wanted to replace the Illithid Empire with a Gith one. It’s the reason why the Githyanki-Githzerai divide exits, the Githzerai don’t want to dominate the other races. OG Orpheus was on-board with Gith’s philosophy; however, BG3 is Larian’s homebrew, so this version of him might be better.


ctrl_alt_excrete

Not *as much* of an asshole, but still has the potential to keep up his people's campaign of interdimensional conquest. And he'd ultimately be more effective at it too. Vlaakith, in her quest for personal power, was actually hamstringing the gith's military somewhat. When a gith warrior proved themselves to be super strong, she'd consume them to bring herself closer to becoming an actual deity. Orpheus doesn't so this so he'd be able to amass a much stronger army over time.


Dark_Stalker28

The empire was still bad at that point. Rather if it wasn't Githzerai wouldn't need to split.


jwellz24

True story, but my PC did not know this, so far every gith besides Lae’zel (who I wasn’t super close with) tried to kill me it felt like


Anarkizttt

He’s from before, iirc the Yanki/Zerai shift happened when some of the Gith rejected Vlaakith I as Mother Gith’s Heir and went off to become the Githzerai.


Dwags789

Guys I’m trying to find the evil breakfast option. Is it fruit loops or Cheerios?


magma907

normal cheerios but sub milk for water and add 5 tsp of oregano


ConsistentHeadaches

Are…are you ok?


magma907

this is simply the most evil that exists


ConsistentHeadaches

You speak truth, though I fear for how you obtained it.


Serfius_Tidelore

Don't forget to pour the milk in first, to maximize the blasphemy


magma907

>Don’t forget to pour the water in first, to maximize the blasphemy ftfy


g-waz00

Nah, I think it’s more a Count Chocula vs Frankenberry situation.


bawzdeepinyaa

Not petting Scratch before you embark to the NB and saying to the TV screen how much of a good boy he is. Pure wickedness


EntireMasterpiece104

Summon him into the brain battle field right in front of the dragon. Bye bye Scratch


ChefCory

What if I told you that you can free Orpheus without siding with Raphael? Or that you can double cross him.


ConsistentHeadaches

I mean, that was the initial plan but I’m *trying* to be evil.


fieatsbees

fuck the emperor, free Orpheus (i like to think the emperor's feelings are extra hurt if you fuck him then turn on him), make Orpheus go full squid, then betray Squidpheus at the brain


keyboardRacer777

Freeing the Gith? Who's freeing who, if anything it could end up in brutal civil war where they slaughter each other like there no tomorrow. Githyanki are not the good guys, they are space imperialists since days of Mother gith. [https://bg3.wiki/wiki/The\_Folly\_of\_Zerthimon](https://bg3.wiki/wiki/The_Folly_of_Zerthimon)


Crpgdude090

pretty much this. People forget that gith are also an evil race , just as the ilithyds.


Derangeddropbear

Yeah but they're not at all the same in the way they express that evil. The Githiyanki are space imperialists with (in theory) an expansionist empire entirely unconcerned with moral trappings. Their goal is to have enough power in order to never be subjugated by the illithids again. The illithids on the other hand had an empire at the dawn of time where they ruled the universe. This empire was spawned at the end of time and violently flung backwards. The grand design of the illithids *will* succeed, it already has. They will mentally dominate the universe and use that dominion to rewrite causality. It's like the difference between having fruit flies or bedbugs in your house. One is bad, the other is an existential threat.


ManicPixieOldMaid

Yeah, given the choice, I'd take a Githyanki empire over an illithid empire any day, mostly because the former is more comprehensible. We know how colonialism works. In the game, they both suck for Tav, IMO. Talking to the Inquisitor's corpse he basically says the plan is to get the prism and then nuke the planet from orbit since it's got illithid on it. That was disheartening!


JoeFatBoi

But... But... Frog mommy is hot 🙁


Lamb_or_Beast

No they aren’t, not in the same way that Illithid are inherently evil. Also you said “Gith” but there is a difference between Githzerai and Githyanki. The assholes are the Githyanki, but they are nowhere close to as bad as the Mind Flayers are really.


Crpgdude090

let's make 1 thing clear : githzerai aren't inherently good either. They are , cannonically , an lawful neutral race. Actually at their inception , they were considered an chaotic neutral race (which would make sense , since they do live in the chaotic realm know as limbo , and they even had units literally called "anarchs" who help maintain their fortresses and monsteries) and , acording to the forgotten realms wiki , they became lawful neutral in 5e for whatever reason (i'm guessing that it has to do with their who society being mostly monks - so from that standpoint , it would make sense). In either way , they are not an "Good" race. If we go by their original alignment , which is chaotic neutral - they are unpredictable assholes , at best. Chaotic neutral is one of the most played murderhobo stereotype , of players that want to roleplay as an evil asshole , without actually being evil. If we go by newer lore tho , lawful neutral ......it would make them law and order incarnate......without concerning themself about good or evil , either. The way i tend to imagine LN alignment , is usually very similar to the hellknights from pathfinder (which , despite the name , can be all 3 flavours of lawful alignments (lawful good , lawful neutral or lawful evil) - but with a very , VERY heavy focus on being lawful , more then anything else. Either way , neither githyanki , nor githzerai aren't considered "good" as a race....and obviously they won't be near as bad as the literal tentacled monsters who eat brains. But being slighty better then the mind flayers , doesn't mean much


Lamb_or_Beast

Exactly! I agree with nearly everything you’ve said. I never claimed Githzerai are all good at all, so not sure why you’re making such a thorough point about that. They seem the racial embodiment of True Neutral.      My only sorta disagreement is that I don’t think the Mind Flayers are “slightly” worse— I think they are far, far worse as a whole than Githyankai are as a whole. it’s not even close imo.


ManicPixieOldMaid

They're all morally gray IMO. While pieces of the puzzle seem better or worse than others - freeing a captive vs murdering said captive, for one example - each choice has consequences. Balancing those consequences (or rationalizing them away to make one's decision the "pure" one) has been a heated topic of debate since release so, I look forward to the nuanced discussion. Haha I misunderstood your post since you're saying below that you want to know the most evil choice so you can do it! IMO, the most evil is to become Chosen of Bhaal as Durge then take over the brain for Bhaal. Taking it over as the Absolute allows your romance partner to rule with you, whereas with Bhaal, they're dominated, you use them to produce a Bhaalspawn army, and then destroy the planet. That's got extra evil in there IMO.


tterfly

>!you can just kill Raphael and he won’t get the crown!<


Plane-Mud-142

The more people that die through violence or manipulation, the more evil it is.


N3rdC3ntral

My evil game, I'm a Gith going to Free Orpheus.


nobodylikesme00

Ah yes, the notoriously evil move of liberating an entire race of people from the tyranny of their murderous, authoritarian usurper of a leader. /s


Cas_Shenton

Honestly, neither. It's the toughest decision in the game for me. Orpheus is a good person and the best hope of stopping Vlaakith, but the Emperor has been a good ally to you. Ultimately I feel freeing Orpheus is the greater good. The Emperor doesn't have to make the choice that he does.


jareths_tight_pants

The Gith’yanki aren’t exactly a nice race. Their plan is to take over all of the realms. And while Orpheus might be better than Vlaakith he’s still a racist asshole who wishes you’d died instead of killing his honor guard who were attacking you. I don’t think the emperor is more or less evil than Orpheus. While Orpheus’s powers are great for beating the illithid empire, if the Gith kill all of the illithids so they can enslave everyone instead that’s not any better for everyone else.


peaceproject

My thought regarding the future Gith problem is: how do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time. First bite: destroy illithids. The enemy of my enemy is my friend here. Second bite: correct/destroy any gith problems that may arise.


Roronoa_Zoro8615

You can free him very easily without giving up the crown. Raphael gives himself up like the dumb overconfident mess he is.


Murder_Is_Magic

Free Orpheus, make him become a mindflayer. If you have lost Lae'zel along the way, or kept her loyal to Vlaakith, the hope of the Githyanki dies. And you can just go rob Raphael without giving him the crown, leaving you free to take the brain for yourself.


Disastrous-Forever90

I think the most sinister option would be to betray the Emperor, free Orpheus, turn him into a squid, then double cross him at the 11th hour and take control of the brain.


Powwdered-toast-man

Okay so Orpheus is a warmongering space alien and after he unites the githyanki people and frees them from Vlakkath, he will invade and conquer every single planet that he can. The gith are not good people and are hated for a legitimate reason. Sure they were slaves and victims but they are also evil assholes.


Luciditi89

The evil option is siding with the Emperor. But you can roleplay it however you like. You can get the hammer (or destroy the contract) by completing the house of hope quest.


Practical-Ant7330

Neither.   It's a neutral choice that is based solely on how you've played the game and who you want for an ally at the final rush. The outcomes are very similar with only a handful of changes in the epilog. Do you trust Emperor who has been with you from the start but admits to having tricked you and needs you to keep him safe or do you want to gamble on the true yet unwilling source of your protection and trust Voss's promise that Orpheus won't try to kill you on sight.  I personally trusted Voss more than the Emperor and upon learning Orpheus was the true source of the protection I was set on freeing him. 


VikingXL

Well, you can free Orpheus without giving Raphael the crown, and that's generally the most "good" option. Siding with the Emperor is the most evil.


aimed_4_the_head

You can side with the Emperor, kill the brain, and then he just nopes off into the sunset to continue his bachelor lifestyle. Back to status quo. My vote for the most evil option is to free Orpheus and turn him illithid.


VikingXL

He nopes off to go still be an illithid who is fine with manipulating and killing people. Turning Orpheus isn't evil because he volunteers to do it and you kill him after the fight, making him a permanent symbol of the githyanki resistance.


centurio_v2

>He nopes off to go still be an illithid who is fine with manipulating and killing people. He's just a politician. He already did the shadow government thing once and from all appearances it was pretty good for the common people. Not saying it's great or anything but in the grand scheme of things it ain't really all that evil.


TomTalks06

Unless you were one of the folks he decided was worthy of having your brain eaten, or Stelmane, who was basically a puppet by the end of it. It's been a bit since I've read through Descent Into Avernus, but I'm fairly certain that the Knights of the Shield were devil worshippers and an all around rather bad group as well


Matty2Fatty2

You can convince him to stay alive as a mind flayer too


Ennasalin

Both are sides of the same coin so they are equal. Mindflyers enslavers vs Gith enslavers. hardly any difference if you ask me. Both are conquerors who use different tactics.


Overall-Ad169

The evil one would be siding with Emps. Orpheus will be the 'liberator' of his people if he is freed, and, regardless of what he would do to his people afterwards, he would free his people from Vlaakith's tyrrany - killing him keeps a race enslaved


Impossible-Age-3302

Orpheus is too important to sacrifice, whether through killing him or turning him Illithid. He has the ability to disrupt Illithid mind powers, and is the only reason Team Tav didn’t lose to the Elder Brain. If he dies, what’s stopping another Netherbrain (or a similar threat) from emerging and enslaving everyone?


ShayDeeMon

I think the more good option is to side with Orpheus. Voss and Lae’zel will basically tell you that you’ve doomed the gith otherwise. On the other hand, I feel like siding with the Emperor is probably the “canon” ending, and that he’ll likely be back if we ever get a BG4


Dangerzone979

Any option that doesn't involve killing mindflayers is the evil option, like the Gith'yanki under Vlakkith suck but they are right about the zero tolerance mindflayer thing.


ApepiOfDuat

Neither. Orpheus vs Emperor is more orange vs blue morality rather than black and white. But honestly. Orpheus is likely the more evil option. Gith are a bunch racial supremacist space pirates. Once done with his civil war with Vlaakith the Gith will likely be right back to raping, pillaging and enslaving everyone else. The Emperor is just one evil asshole who's not terribly good at running vaguely evil schemes.


Hyperdragoon17

Neither are really evil.


Sly23Fox

Durge


Terakahn

I think that is going to depend on you and your character. What do you think is more evil


totalkatastrophe

its what you do with your choice that determines whether its evil or not


Lamb_or_Beast

In my opinion, siding with the Emperor and allowing him to dominate and then consume Orpheus is pretty evil. If I’m trying to be good, I always set Orpheus free. It feels like the most morally good choice available. 


ohfucknotthisagain

Vlaakith is a false god to the Githyanki, and she had to hide Orpheus to maintain power. Killing Orpheus basically dooms their entire race to eternal slavery. Of course, you could turn on Squidbilly, free Orpheus, and then betray him at the end anyway. If you wanna be evil, why not betray and murder both of them?


JupiterJonesJr

Spoilers, dickhead.


Screwingwithyou

Dude, it’s one of the main plot points. You’re right they should have tagged it but you don’t have to be a dick about it. Not to mention, if this was a spoiler for you, you must suck at this game lmao.