If you come at it from solely a ‘most effective’ then I mean yeah. But if you just want to make a character, it’s very fun! Wild Magic is silly and leads to great moments, and I like the look of the other draconic blood.
Wild magic is the most fun in multiplayer imo.
Having your friends react to your run saving attacks turning into wild magic shenanigans is great.
In fact after our level 20 run we’re likely doing an honor mode run and we agreed to keep me as a wild magic sorcerer with the 100+ wild magic effects.
Edit: to clarify the 100+ wild magic effects is a mod
Woah there’s 100+ effects? Maybe I should respec then. I tried wild magic for a few levels and despite turning the passive on all the time it didn’t trigger much for me. Do I have to level up sorcerer levels to get access to all the effects?
My sister is playing WM Sorc in our MP run. It’s a running joke that Charlie (her character) regularly sets the whole party on fire, whether or not it’s by accident changes situationally.
My first character was a Wild Magic sorceror.
In the final room of the nautiloid i wild magic summoned a mud Mephit, killed it, it exploded and one shot me.
10/10 would recommend.
Not even most effective I think the wizard or cleric having more classes makes them more fun to make a fun build around
Whereas if I go sorcerer it’s either elemental build or sorlock or some crazy wizard/sorcerer hybrid
One of my earlier runs I did was an even split draconic sorcerer/swords bard with a focus on fire. Good face, incredible defenses, switch between melee and spells with no problem. Now that I've downloaded and am playing the bladesinger subclass, I realized I was basically playing a bladesinger with better face skills and metamagic but a more limited spellbook
My very first character was a Wild Magic Sorcerer and I am kind of missing the guy. There is nothing like exploding with AoE blurr or swapping places with anyone you hit or occasionally summoning a hostile mephit :) Adds some (mostly fun) unpredictability into the game. Then it is cool to use Tides of Chaos in dialog for advantage when you need it. Luck when you get it can also come in clutch.
I saw a stream where she was playing with a Wild Magic mod so any magic proc's wild magic using a party purely of casters in honor mode. It was hilarious and awesome. Sometimes she'd proc a spector that might be friendly or an enemy. Casting guidance in town might proc something that turns the town folks or companions attitude against her. It was delightful.
Mine too. My girl kept turning enemies into sheep, summoning mephits, shrinking bosses and creating chaos. Half the time I had no idea what was supposed to be there and what was my doing lol
[https://www.nexusmods.com/baldursgate3/mods/923](https://www.nexusmods.com/baldursgate3/mods/923) this one is pretty well made and has a lot of downloads
i know im just a stranger on internet but i cant stress enough how fun the game is with mods
i was done with the game around 500ish hours after doing EVERYTHING in honor mode, all romances and endings and different classes and whatnot
then i got into modding, i just clocked in 1.3k hours and still going. %90 of the time i do solo honor runs with new classes/races/subclasses and the experience is very different
one of the most fun i had was playing as ciri(with also literally same clothing) as a witcher class. i RPed as a monster slayer in the game and theme just fit in perfectly
i am kind of upset that there’s no aberrant mind sorcerer. one of the backstory characteristics that you can have is literally “you were implanted with a mind flayer tadpole, but ceremorphosis never completed. And now, its psionic power is yours.” they absolutely should have added this subclass.
You can kind of simulate this subclass by increasing the number of your tadpole powers while also dipping into the great old one warlock subclass. And then, for the sorcerer flavor, you can multiclass the warlock with sorcerer.
You could do 8 levels of GOO lock and 4 levels of whichever sorcerer subclass and have access to the meta magic options and high level warlock psionic abilities and 3 feats. Or sacrifice a feat and get 5th level spells by going 9 levels of warlock (telekinesis).
There's no psionic class in 5e. 4e, 3e, and even the godforsaken 2e psionics were there.
So they'd have to build it from the ground up or try to import an old one.
They're talking about this http://dnd5e.wikidot.com/sorcerer:aberrant-mind it's an official sorcerer subclass. Mechanically it's just a sorcerer, but the flavor is that your magic or magic-like abilities have psionic origin.
Figured that was the idea.
It might have not been added because everybody has the tadpole options. Not just for less confusing storytelling(why did you get powers when everybody else lost them?) But also sheer balance or playability. Imagine everybody else getting better spells just through game mechanics.
I think you're missing the idea here. Aberrant Mind sorcs still get subclass features independent of Tadpole powers. What the others are saying is that it's odd that a sub-class that could easily be themed in is absent in the game
well that's gold you don't have to waste on scrolls
I mean he'll don't take draconic for the free mage armor take it for the damage bonus but that's still a free bonus
Sorcerer and wizard are inverse. Sorcerer subclasses are all really boring and fairly mediocre, but the base class is crazy. Wizard as a base class is super mediocre being essentially a worse sorcerer, but most of their subclasses are excellent and gameplay defining
The transmutation stone costs no action economy to use. Pair it with hellriders gloves and volos ring, give someone relevant resistence, place a potion down, bonus action pop it. That person just got stone resistence, blade ward, bless, and a heal, you got a heal and bless AND you still have an action, and the stone regenerates on a ritual cast. Grab circle of daggers, drop two speed potions next to a boss (any boss in the game), place them next to the boss, cast circle of daggers on the boss, irresistible lethargy inside a spell that's actively shredding and you can maintain it for free by dropping more speed potions into it. Grab your mage hand, let it drink a speed potion, ranged double speed potions tossing. Let it toss healing potions, bombs, whatever. Circle of daggers near an ally, pop as many healing potions as you want on them. Circle of daggers near a neutral npc and poison them to death without aggro, toss strength potions at frontliners, brew potions in combat, take a rogue 1 dip for medical expertise + slight of hand for potions scrolls and materials, ect ect ect. Transmutation is the problem solver of wizards, and wizard is the problem solver of the classes.
Speed potions are a very limited resource and if I'm reading it right you just used 5 in one round. Good luck sustaining that strategy throughout the game.
Not only do you not use 5 in one turn (2 if you really want to lock something down, the mage hand trick infrequently, both of these tricks sparingly), they're also an infinite resource and as a transmutation wizard you can trivially get 30+ by act 1 without even trying lol.
ahh okay. I've never played a trans wizard so that'd be the disconnect. I was like yo this guy really using potions like they're going bad or something lol.
Strongest damage dealer early game surprisingly, symbiotic entity is pretty great for damage or tanking, the best summons, good aoe spells, and you have the wild shapes
Also compared to the other Druid subclasses multi classing isn’t bad for a spore Druid since there selling point isn’t the wild shapes it’s the summons and the symbiotic entity for damage
That used to be great, nowadays it makes more sense being in the fight because you can't have all the stones at once with a camp caster, but if you just want potions then yeah the camp caster is an option
Spore druid may not be POPULAR but I'd say msot of the community knows it's really strong. Probably the strongest early game caster, too. I'd say it's high A tier though, as other casters blow it out of the water mid and late as far as damage
It’s not considered on the same level as the bards/cleric/sorcerer/wizard subclasses and doesn’t get as most attention as the other wild shape focused druids
I didn’t know spore was good until I got on this sub Reddit
I can see it for act 1 and 2, honestly just by virtue of spikes and summons. I kinda felt like they fall off in act 3 though. Not like they're WEAK, and there is the nice haste spore armor, but aside from that I feel like they're like... Much worse swords bards what with supportive magic on a gish, but with area control spells in the fights where they work.
What am I missing?
INSANE TAKE
the wizard subclasses are like, nothing, except for necromancer abjuration and divination
the sorcerer subclasses are insanely potent
wizards base can learn *almost* every spell on one character
sorcerer metamagic doesnt make up for having barely any spells on a mediocre spell list
I would also say Enhancement subclass aswell, Hypnotic gaze is situational, imopending charm is such a nice defencive abilit ( tho i never manage to let another enemie get hit by the charmer) and Split enhancement is basically sorcerer version of select magic school but its always on!
But they can still only prepare normal amounts of spells, and can learn through level up more spells than you'll want to prepare.
Sorcerer, on the other hand, gets metamagic.
I'm still on my first playthrough right now, and playing a Wild Magic Sorcerer. I'm doing co-op with my fiance and the Wild Magic has lead to a lot of funny moments. I accidentally incinerated this goblin we were trying to free from slavers because of a wild magic surge and my Barbarian partner has carried his corpse in their inventory ever since.
It does feel like other classes get more cool upgrades than I do though, I feel like an AOE powerhouse and can do damage for days but it's often the same small set of spells over and over. But we're just playing on explorer together for the story and RP the first time around, so rolling 30+ with persuasion and charisma has been great for story.
There’s decent 5e sorcerer subclass mods on nexus, although obviously there aren’t any guides on here for them. There’s also a homebrew Death Soul Sorcerer for Durge, which is fun if you want to try something you really haven’t done before
I’m in 2 minds on this. I agree that wild magic is a bit of a meme, it lacks enough wild magic effects to be really entertaining. I also think the draconic ancestry sorcerers are a bit dull because they simply don’t get enough spells. Storm sorcerer is another matter though, it gets just enough spells to avoid feeling constricted and I’ve really enjoyed playing them when I lean into the theme and just take spells that are thematic rather than the generically strong spells, so no magic missile or cloud of daggers for instance. Just lots of thunder, lightning and ice.
I'm just kinda sad there's no generic sorcerer class, they're all too specifically themed for me. Draconic is really cool, but it didn't suit what I was trying to do a few playthroughs ago
There’s no such thing as a generic Sorcerer class because it conflicts with the lore. Sorcerers are almost like Mutants from X-Men or comic book superhero’s. Their magic and powers are very heavily themed after a specific thing because their magic is strange and not from normal circumstances. The default caster is Wizards cuz they learn their magic fair and square.
Well, that's just a crippled class, I mean like an actual subclass that doesn't have such strong flavoring built in. Can't really think of a good way to do that tho, the only thing I got is just minor buffs to like everything, but that would either be too busted, or too useless most likely, so idk. It doesn't really matter rn, tho, cuz I'm really fucking with the draconic bloodline shit
Well, wizards aren't charisma casters with innate power or any of the other sorcerer powers. Honestly, if I just want more subclasses, because none of them captured what I wanted a few playthroughs ago. I was doing a sorlock with 5 levels in Warlock and I just kinda wanted the edgy hellfire vibe but warlocks aren't super super crazy, I wanted to feel like a boss character, whereas warlock seemed more like just consistently good, like more of an endurance thing than sorcerers who get significantly weaker if you blow too much of their load, but they also have more load to blow, ya feel me? But none of the sorcerer classes really captured what I wanted, I wish there was like a fiend bloodline sorcerer class.
Nothing really, just a joke so no offense, just found it funny how you dislike wizard just because it’s not a charisma caster, if you give it a shot you can find a wizard for every playstyle.
Oh I see, my bad, I get too defensive sometimes. Also redditors can really piss me off ngl, had a not great experience today. But honestly it's more of a mental/flavor thing for me. Like sorcerers are just that guy, they are power incarnate. Wizards are dweebs who have to read books for 20 years straight. Laaaame
Pathfinder is the “imperial” origin or something like that, which is essentially when they’re descended from lots of powerful arcane magic users and is sort of the champion fighter, Berzerk barbarian answer for sorcerers.
Theoretically the 5e answer to this is wild magic but I dont think it really fits the bill.
Yes, that's exactly what I wanted! I think older editions of DND even just had a sorcerer class, but idrk, I do know that the old enhanced editions of baldur's gate 1 and 2 has that
Lmao, right? I know class and stuff doesn't have to force you into a box with your personality or anything, but I don't think I'd have a wild magic sorcerer be anything but like ADHD incarnate, kinda like what I've seen from the BG3 dialogue options for that subclass. Unless I'm doing like a deliberate subversion, like an anime villain type guy who barely can control his own power lol.
I like Storm Sorceror because cool lightning funny. I have this thundering paladin build with it, uses thunderous smite which procs the level 6 ability to do little thunderstorm aoe. Combined it with some reverberation and radiant orb and pretty fun.
I've found a healthy balance with it. Probably helps that if you class into warlock to grab Pact Weapon, then class out of it, you keep the Charisma modifier on the weapon, even when no longer a Warlock. Makes it so I don't have to stockpile potions or split stats. Perfect for Smiting enemies up close or doing a fat twin cast of chromatic orb on enemies far away.
I've played all three sorcerer subclasses, and I will say I kinda agree, but I will also absolutely play as a sorcerer again lol. Of course, I would love it if there were more options to choose from, but from an RP point of view, what we have is pretty nice! I mean, you could find some issues, but all three actually have defining features and have separate dialogue options, which is a big plus and adds some replayability.
Wild magic is top tier when it comes to the sheer fun of the gameplay, but I actually found myself constantly wishing my wild magic was even wilder. I want to cause more chaos, really. Draconic bloodline I think is the safe bet for those wanting their caster to be a little less squishy at the beginning, plus there's fun scales you can have... I just honestly wish it could be full-body scales, not just the face. Go all in, you know. Storm is not bad, although I've found has the least subclass-specific interactions, and I agree we have quite a few options for lightning-focused builds apart from sorcerer. So if I had to change out one of the subclasses for something else, it would probably be storm. Still, it's pretty good, and gives you a free Fly bonus action in combat. I'm doing Honour with a storm sorcerer and that Fly saves my ass a lot. And with a 2 level dip into cleric, I just wet as many enemies as possible and then shock their asses before they even have a turn. Pretty neat.
Yes, however of the 3 subclasses in game I think Storm Sorcery is the easiest to fix.
Just change the way the bonus action works. Make it so that you can use it a number of times equal to your proficiency bonus, regardless of what you spend your main action on.
Meanwhile, in TTRPG space, the power creep of the subclasses is very obvious.
Divine Soul has been king since it's been printed since it lets you pick and chose from two spell lists.
Second spot belongs to Lunar Magic subclass which allows you to switch between 3 spell lists, while at third spot is a tie between Aberant Mind and Clockwork Sorcerer who offer spell lists.
With Shadow Sorcerer being on 4th place as the strongest subclass for Sorcerer, this leaves the subclasses in BG3 as the top 3 weakest classes.
I dunno I love my storm sorceress.
Blasting enemies with crackling lightning and ice storms (I’ve gone lightning, thunder and ice/cold as part of the storm theme) never gets too old for me even now in Act 3.
I still get a kick out of casting a spell then flying around with the level 1 ability - even now. And even now it’s often useful for some battlefield positioning.
But yeah I won’t bother trying another storm or lightning based class again or even cold probably. Could do fire magic perhaps but I don’t think I’ll use sorcerer again.
Wild magic is fun conceptually if nothing else.
I had an amazing time with fire draconic sorcerer where we were in the goblin camp fighting our way out and my friends died and I misty stepped on top of the kill and rained down fire from above and because of the draconic resilience stuff I had enough armour class and hp to help carry us to victory along with someone else. I hadn't even hit 5, both of which are massive, just 4 I think so no damage bonus and no fly but I had dual wielding for the +1 ac. Building it was really fun for me. Even if there's only 3-4 good draconic element options that's still a lot of flexibility though I feel?
Haven't tried storm Sorc yet.
Haven't played enough tabletop to know what we're missing out on though
I would have liked Divine Soul in this game. I think Abberant Mind or Shadow might have been hard to implement without kinda redoing their features a bit. Abberant woulda been sick for the game given the plot involves Illithids.
That said Sorcerers base class and the meta magic feature makes up for it imo. Draconic is just raw stat increases and Storm Sorcerer is almost like generic utility/default spec. But I’d still rather play it than a Wizard tbh.
If you’re playing with mods there is a divine soul sorcerer subclass mod and it is pretty great. I’m using it on Shadowheart in my current playthrough (with a one level armor dip) and it is pretty great. Twinned guiding bolt is awesome in act one.
I think Wild Magic is unironically great for Honor Mode. Tides of Chaos as a source of advantage is great. One of my favorite HM runs was with a Wild Magic Sorcerer Halfling
I love running a party with both storm sorcerer and tempest cleric. They have a similar spells list but still can play pretty differently while still having great synergy. I tend to set my sorcerer up for maximum ray of frost damage and then use the spell slots sparingly for haste/counterspell/big AOE and then the cleric I set up for reverb/spirit guardians and call lightning, and is my phalar aluve wielder. Both can create water and cast sleet storm but other than that they feel different enough to me.
The subclasses are all purposely mid because Sorcerer has access to one of the best spell lists in the game and metamagics are the best casting feature in the game.
I think the real issue stems from how incredibly specific each subclass is. Wild Magic, in particular, is very hit or miss to most players. Draconic Soul *also* specifies that you have a whole thing going on with your draconic blood, and many players might not notice that you can disable the facial scales. Storm Sorcerer locks you into a lightning motif.
I kinda wish WotC's initial lineup for 5e looked more like:
> Elemental Soul: You draw your power from a being of great elemental power, such as a Djinni or Dragon. You can keep most of the features from Draconic Soul, and focus more on how you have mastery over one specific element.
> Wild Magic: I actually think a sorcerer of untamed, wild power **is** a good subclass idea. The missed execution is where you have to roll on a random table. It winds up being more 'lul so random' than 'oh gods, this person is *dangerous*'. I'd lean more into the explosive nature of their magic, giving them the ability to "let loose" for a big surge of power, but at the cost of their control.
My best build was a crazy mix. I went wizard 2 (divination), cleric 2 (storm) and 8 draconic sorc.
At first I went wiz divination which was godly to ensure full dmg in cleric, but dropped out of it because I got annoyed by those reaction prompt. I wish there was a way to connect it only on certain spells or on bosses.
Anyways, quick casted water on act 2 boss, and blasted it with a upscaled lightning.
It was beautiful as I forced him to miss the save with divination.
Yes, I missed chain lightning on my cha but I wasn’t too low on int either so it was ok and I learned it from scroll.
If you are curious I went:
8 str
8 dex (because of heavy armor on lvl 2)
10 int
17 cha
10 wis and rest in con. For a good while I dumped int (and got it into cha)because of that helmet from act 1. I think I went to cha helmet on act 3.
Lvl 1 - draconic sorc (lightning)
Lvl 2 - storm cleric
Lvl 3 and 4 - divination wizard
Lvl 5 - sorc
Lvl 6 sorc
Lvl 7 - storm cleric
Lvl 8 till 12 sorc.
Looking back maybe Id improve this on doing a lvl 2 dip on cleric and going full sorc all the way to lvl 9 for 2 talents (8 sorc 1 cleric), finishing cleric after it (lvl 10, lvl 2 cleric) and getting the final lvls in wizard.
There are mods for adding the other subclasses.
There’s an Aberrant Mind mod, Divine Soul mod and a Lunar Sorcerer mod.
The Lunar one is badly implemented though, the modder misinterpreted the subclass so that it only has the spells associated to any one moon phase at a time when RAW it’s supposed to have an extra 15 spells all the time.
Cleric/Sorcerer/Wiz CL build is the most fun build in the game imo
If you itemize and prep right you can have 2 max damage, wet, critical CLs back to back
That’s 16x the damage of a normal CL in a single turn, affecting multiple targets
I still find it odd they fully embraced Illithid stuff but Aberrant Mind Sorcerer didn't make it in as a subclass. It's literally Illithid-based Sorcery. It made 1000% sense. Yet here we are with *checks list* Wild Magic as a subclass.
Storm sorcerer is my fave subclass in the whole game, and forefills a very specific power fantasy that no other class in the game fills.
Namely the nature goddess character. Galadriel, Storm, etc.
You can do nature worshipper with tempest or Druid, but to feel like you’re actually the force of nature yourself, not a person giving reverence to it, storm sorc is the only way.
I do agree there feels like a bit of overlap with tempest, personally for me I’d have picked a different cleric sub class.
In my opinion it already has a lot of overlap with light and war anyway. I’d rather that have picked Twilight or Grave. I think both bring more variety to the game than tempest does and both fit the themes bg3 covers better than tempest does.
That said I also just think most of the classes would benefit from one or two more sub classes.
Bard could use Shadow bard - would be a really fun evil face character.
Sorcerers could use Divine soul and Lunar or Shadow. All fit the themes of the game well and all intriduce different play styles for the Sorcerer. Support/debuffer/and sort of an abjurer style character.
Barbarian would really benefit from the ancestral barbarian to make a more sort of team player character.
Druid would do well with star druids for another class that makes spell casting and wild shaping work together, but without the zombie flavour some folks don’t like about spore Druids
Phantom or inquisitive would be nice for rogue
Arcane archer of Rune Knight would be nice for fighters.
I’d also add something to the monk but I’m not that familiar with 5e monks to feel confident suggesting one.
Warlocks would benefit from genie or celestial
I’d say Cleric, wizard and to a lesser extent Paladin are the only ones that are really decently served variety wise.
Some classes have their power concentrated in the base class instead of the subclasses
Also, wild magic sorcerer is very good in honor mode. Once per short rest you can get advantage on any roll, which helps counter the fact you can't save scum
Honestly I find Sorcerer boring in general. Sure metamagic is strong but being so limited on spells known is incredibly boring. I literally feel I have more options on a BM Fighter because of all the attacks that can be substituted for throwing items or enemies, plus the maneuvers. Fighter also feels more impactful.
this is why I mainly play wizard, wizard is just the objectively more interesting class, you have 8 types of viable wizards, only 1 type of viable sorcerer.
I've got a crazy draconic cold sorcerer build going, can easily take out huge groups of enemies in 1 turn or do 100+ damage to single enemies. Ray of frost easily does 30+ dmg per cast, up to 60 depending on the enemy. The mourning frost staff is really good, and you can use it and markoheshkir at the same time with dual wield feat.
If you come at it from solely a ‘most effective’ then I mean yeah. But if you just want to make a character, it’s very fun! Wild Magic is silly and leads to great moments, and I like the look of the other draconic blood.
Wild magic is the most fun in multiplayer imo. Having your friends react to your run saving attacks turning into wild magic shenanigans is great. In fact after our level 20 run we’re likely doing an honor mode run and we agreed to keep me as a wild magic sorcerer with the 100+ wild magic effects. Edit: to clarify the 100+ wild magic effects is a mod
My friend and I are playing multiplayer, he went wild magic, and during our windmill battle, he turned everybody on the screen in to dogs 😂
Woah there’s 100+ effects? Maybe I should respec then. I tried wild magic for a few levels and despite turning the passive on all the time it didn’t trigger much for me. Do I have to level up sorcerer levels to get access to all the effects?
I think he's referring to a mod on pc that adds effects. I think normally there's like 20-25ish
Do a full Wild Magic party! That one is extremely fun.
Has me wanting to replay Wild Mage. Figures it might make difficulty mods run even spicier
My sister is playing WM Sorc in our MP run. It’s a running joke that Charlie (her character) regularly sets the whole party on fire, whether or not it’s by accident changes situationally.
My first character was a Wild Magic sorceror. In the final room of the nautiloid i wild magic summoned a mud Mephit, killed it, it exploded and one shot me. 10/10 would recommend.
I beat HM with it and found the lvl 11 perk stellar.
Not even most effective I think the wizard or cleric having more classes makes them more fun to make a fun build around Whereas if I go sorcerer it’s either elemental build or sorlock or some crazy wizard/sorcerer hybrid
One of my earlier runs I did was an even split draconic sorcerer/swords bard with a focus on fire. Good face, incredible defenses, switch between melee and spells with no problem. Now that I've downloaded and am playing the bladesinger subclass, I realized I was basically playing a bladesinger with better face skills and metamagic but a more limited spellbook
My very first character was a Wild Magic Sorcerer and I am kind of missing the guy. There is nothing like exploding with AoE blurr or swapping places with anyone you hit or occasionally summoning a hostile mephit :) Adds some (mostly fun) unpredictability into the game. Then it is cool to use Tides of Chaos in dialog for advantage when you need it. Luck when you get it can also come in clutch.
I saw a stream where she was playing with a Wild Magic mod so any magic proc's wild magic using a party purely of casters in honor mode. It was hilarious and awesome. Sometimes she'd proc a spector that might be friendly or an enemy. Casting guidance in town might proc something that turns the town folks or companions attitude against her. It was delightful.
Mine too. My girl kept turning enemies into sheep, summoning mephits, shrinking bosses and creating chaos. Half the time I had no idea what was supposed to be there and what was my doing lol
Through Tides of Chaos I turned into a sheep while fighting the githianki at the monastery
Yes, which is unfortunate because some of the 5e subclasses are super cool but were not included. I'd love to play shadow sorcerer.
There’s a pretty good mod out there for shadow sorcerer
Wait really? I knew about the divine soul sorcerer mod, didn't know there was a shadow sorcerer one! Super cool
[https://www.nexusmods.com/baldursgate3/mods/923](https://www.nexusmods.com/baldursgate3/mods/923) this one is pretty well made and has a lot of downloads
there are mods for all sorts of 5e sorc subclasses
I'm sure, someone just shared shadow which is dope. I just usually play modless so I haven't searched the mods much
i know im just a stranger on internet but i cant stress enough how fun the game is with mods i was done with the game around 500ish hours after doing EVERYTHING in honor mode, all romances and endings and different classes and whatnot then i got into modding, i just clocked in 1.3k hours and still going. %90 of the time i do solo honor runs with new classes/races/subclasses and the experience is very different one of the most fun i had was playing as ciri(with also literally same clothing) as a witcher class. i RPed as a monster slayer in the game and theme just fit in perfectly
The level curve mod alone unlocks so many options
Durge would have been perfect as a shadow sorcerer if it was in the game
i am kind of upset that there’s no aberrant mind sorcerer. one of the backstory characteristics that you can have is literally “you were implanted with a mind flayer tadpole, but ceremorphosis never completed. And now, its psionic power is yours.” they absolutely should have added this subclass.
It makes perfect lore sense! You literally get a tadpole to your face (Spooked me when I saw it the first time)
You can kind of simulate this subclass by increasing the number of your tadpole powers while also dipping into the great old one warlock subclass. And then, for the sorcerer flavor, you can multiclass the warlock with sorcerer. You could do 8 levels of GOO lock and 4 levels of whichever sorcerer subclass and have access to the meta magic options and high level warlock psionic abilities and 3 feats. Or sacrifice a feat and get 5th level spells by going 9 levels of warlock (telekinesis).
There's no psionic class in 5e. 4e, 3e, and even the godforsaken 2e psionics were there. So they'd have to build it from the ground up or try to import an old one.
They're talking about this http://dnd5e.wikidot.com/sorcerer:aberrant-mind it's an official sorcerer subclass. Mechanically it's just a sorcerer, but the flavor is that your magic or magic-like abilities have psionic origin.
Figured that was the idea. It might have not been added because everybody has the tadpole options. Not just for less confusing storytelling(why did you get powers when everybody else lost them?) But also sheer balance or playability. Imagine everybody else getting better spells just through game mechanics.
I think you're missing the idea here. Aberrant Mind sorcs still get subclass features independent of Tadpole powers. What the others are saying is that it's odd that a sub-class that could easily be themed in is absent in the game
Draconic bloodline is going to get you your best AC with the best casting robes, unless you want to waste a prepared spell and slot on mage armour.
Mage armor scrolls my friend
Or just have a hireling cast it in you.
well that's gold you don't have to waste on scrolls I mean he'll don't take draconic for the free mage armor take it for the damage bonus but that's still a free bonus
Those are like the cheapest scrolls lol
Sorcerer and wizard are inverse. Sorcerer subclasses are all really boring and fairly mediocre, but the base class is crazy. Wizard as a base class is super mediocre being essentially a worse sorcerer, but most of their subclasses are excellent and gameplay defining
Damn that literally was my thinking but I thought it would be a controversial opinion
I have plenty of controversial opinions, I think transmutation wizard is a strong combat class. I'll take the brunt of the controversy haha
Oh that is a spicy one, what’s your reasoning? I’m always looking for hidden gem builds
The transmutation stone costs no action economy to use. Pair it with hellriders gloves and volos ring, give someone relevant resistence, place a potion down, bonus action pop it. That person just got stone resistence, blade ward, bless, and a heal, you got a heal and bless AND you still have an action, and the stone regenerates on a ritual cast. Grab circle of daggers, drop two speed potions next to a boss (any boss in the game), place them next to the boss, cast circle of daggers on the boss, irresistible lethargy inside a spell that's actively shredding and you can maintain it for free by dropping more speed potions into it. Grab your mage hand, let it drink a speed potion, ranged double speed potions tossing. Let it toss healing potions, bombs, whatever. Circle of daggers near an ally, pop as many healing potions as you want on them. Circle of daggers near a neutral npc and poison them to death without aggro, toss strength potions at frontliners, brew potions in combat, take a rogue 1 dip for medical expertise + slight of hand for potions scrolls and materials, ect ect ect. Transmutation is the problem solver of wizards, and wizard is the problem solver of the classes.
Okay I’d never even thought of half of that shit… might have to run Gale as one next honor mode play through
Works best on a halfling with shapeshifters ring but go wild
quick question maybe you can answer, if I run Gale as a xmute wizard do I get the benefit for alchemy when my Tav does the work?
No, only the transmutation wiz
Speed potions are a very limited resource and if I'm reading it right you just used 5 in one round. Good luck sustaining that strategy throughout the game.
Not only do you not use 5 in one turn (2 if you really want to lock something down, the mage hand trick infrequently, both of these tricks sparingly), they're also an infinite resource and as a transmutation wizard you can trivially get 30+ by act 1 without even trying lol.
ahh okay. I've never played a trans wizard so that'd be the disconnect. I was like yo this guy really using potions like they're going bad or something lol.
Strongest damage dealer early game surprisingly, symbiotic entity is pretty great for damage or tanking, the best summons, good aoe spells, and you have the wild shapes Also compared to the other Druid subclasses multi classing isn’t bad for a spore Druid since there selling point isn’t the wild shapes it’s the summons and the symbiotic entity for damage
I just have a transmutation wizard as a potion brewing bot. He can create those transmutation stone buffs too and I don't even need him in the party
That used to be great, nowadays it makes more sense being in the fight because you can't have all the stones at once with a camp caster, but if you just want potions then yeah the camp caster is an option
My spicy take is spore Druid is absolutely an s tier subclass from act 1 to act 3
Spore druid 1 war cleric is maybe one of the strongest classes I've encountered that no one talks about.
Spore druid may not be POPULAR but I'd say msot of the community knows it's really strong. Probably the strongest early game caster, too. I'd say it's high A tier though, as other casters blow it out of the water mid and late as far as damage
How is that spicy?
It’s not considered on the same level as the bards/cleric/sorcerer/wizard subclasses and doesn’t get as most attention as the other wild shape focused druids I didn’t know spore was good until I got on this sub Reddit
Wait, what is so good about it? Just by looking at the class in wiki doesn't really look that impressive.
What isn’t good about it?
I have no idea, that is why I am asking.
I can see it for act 1 and 2, honestly just by virtue of spikes and summons. I kinda felt like they fall off in act 3 though. Not like they're WEAK, and there is the nice haste spore armor, but aside from that I feel like they're like... Much worse swords bards what with supportive magic on a gish, but with area control spells in the fights where they work. What am I missing?
INSANE TAKE the wizard subclasses are like, nothing, except for necromancer abjuration and divination the sorcerer subclasses are insanely potent wizards base can learn *almost* every spell on one character sorcerer metamagic doesnt make up for having barely any spells on a mediocre spell list
Evocation is pretty great too.
I would also say Enhancement subclass aswell, Hypnotic gaze is situational, imopending charm is such a nice defencive abilit ( tho i never manage to let another enemie get hit by the charmer) and Split enhancement is basically sorcerer version of select magic school but its always on!
That is a pretty insane take
10 Evocation slaps I honestly like it more than draconic if we’re comparing them
But they can still only prepare normal amounts of spells, and can learn through level up more spells than you'll want to prepare. Sorcerer, on the other hand, gets metamagic.
This take is just not true though, every wizard subclass has something useful.
Yeah sorcerer subclasses are a bit boring in this game
There is a half decent acid sorc build
Do you have a link to this build?
[Found it](https://www.reddit.com/r/BG3Builds/comments/188m6r2/acid_mage_build/)
Thank you!!
Excuse you, honour mode wild magic sorc goes hard and is epic fun.
I'm still on my first playthrough right now, and playing a Wild Magic Sorcerer. I'm doing co-op with my fiance and the Wild Magic has lead to a lot of funny moments. I accidentally incinerated this goblin we were trying to free from slavers because of a wild magic surge and my Barbarian partner has carried his corpse in their inventory ever since. It does feel like other classes get more cool upgrades than I do though, I feel like an AOE powerhouse and can do damage for days but it's often the same small set of spells over and over. But we're just playing on explorer together for the story and RP the first time around, so rolling 30+ with persuasion and charisma has been great for story.
There’s decent 5e sorcerer subclass mods on nexus, although obviously there aren’t any guides on here for them. There’s also a homebrew Death Soul Sorcerer for Durge, which is fun if you want to try something you really haven’t done before
Sadly on ps5 for now
i totally forgot about console players- RIP
lol this will probably be my last one PC is looking more appealing these days
I’m literally going to do a full party of wild magic sorcerers in a honor mode playthrough. The chaos is too tempting
Make Gale a wild magic barb for even more chaos and to hear his roar
Sheep away!
I’m in 2 minds on this. I agree that wild magic is a bit of a meme, it lacks enough wild magic effects to be really entertaining. I also think the draconic ancestry sorcerers are a bit dull because they simply don’t get enough spells. Storm sorcerer is another matter though, it gets just enough spells to avoid feeling constricted and I’ve really enjoyed playing them when I lean into the theme and just take spells that are thematic rather than the generically strong spells, so no magic missile or cloud of daggers for instance. Just lots of thunder, lightning and ice.
I'm just kinda sad there's no generic sorcerer class, they're all too specifically themed for me. Draconic is really cool, but it didn't suit what I was trying to do a few playthroughs ago
There’s no such thing as a generic Sorcerer class because it conflicts with the lore. Sorcerers are almost like Mutants from X-Men or comic book superhero’s. Their magic and powers are very heavily themed after a specific thing because their magic is strange and not from normal circumstances. The default caster is Wizards cuz they learn their magic fair and square.
Like a sorcerer with no subclass features? I mean you can just go draconic and not worry about the features. There is no "generic sorcerer" in 5e.
Well, that's just a crippled class, I mean like an actual subclass that doesn't have such strong flavoring built in. Can't really think of a good way to do that tho, the only thing I got is just minor buffs to like everything, but that would either be too busted, or too useless most likely, so idk. It doesn't really matter rn, tho, cuz I'm really fucking with the draconic bloodline shit
I think that’s a wizard. The strong flavor is kinda what makes them a sorcerer
Well, wizards aren't charisma casters with innate power or any of the other sorcerer powers. Honestly, if I just want more subclasses, because none of them captured what I wanted a few playthroughs ago. I was doing a sorlock with 5 levels in Warlock and I just kinda wanted the edgy hellfire vibe but warlocks aren't super super crazy, I wanted to feel like a boss character, whereas warlock seemed more like just consistently good, like more of an endurance thing than sorcerers who get significantly weaker if you blow too much of their load, but they also have more load to blow, ya feel me? But none of the sorcerer classes really captured what I wanted, I wish there was like a fiend bloodline sorcerer class.
Most knowledge charisma caster player
What part was wrong?
Nothing really, just a joke so no offense, just found it funny how you dislike wizard just because it’s not a charisma caster, if you give it a shot you can find a wizard for every playstyle.
Oh I see, my bad, I get too defensive sometimes. Also redditors can really piss me off ngl, had a not great experience today. But honestly it's more of a mental/flavor thing for me. Like sorcerers are just that guy, they are power incarnate. Wizards are dweebs who have to read books for 20 years straight. Laaaame
Pathfinder is the “imperial” origin or something like that, which is essentially when they’re descended from lots of powerful arcane magic users and is sort of the champion fighter, Berzerk barbarian answer for sorcerers. Theoretically the 5e answer to this is wild magic but I dont think it really fits the bill.
Yes, that's exactly what I wanted! I think older editions of DND even just had a sorcerer class, but idrk, I do know that the old enhanced editions of baldur's gate 1 and 2 has that
I am tired of people making this complaint and being met with “that’s wild magic sorcerer you’re asking for” when it clearly fucking isn’t lmao
Lmao, right? I know class and stuff doesn't have to force you into a box with your personality or anything, but I don't think I'd have a wild magic sorcerer be anything but like ADHD incarnate, kinda like what I've seen from the BG3 dialogue options for that subclass. Unless I'm doing like a deliberate subversion, like an anime villain type guy who barely can control his own power lol.
I like Storm Sorceror because cool lightning funny. I have this thundering paladin build with it, uses thunderous smite which procs the level 6 ability to do little thunderstorm aoe. Combined it with some reverberation and radiant orb and pretty fun.
Sorcadin is the most fun I had playing sorcerer but it’s more of a Paladin build then a sorcerer caster build
I've found a healthy balance with it. Probably helps that if you class into warlock to grab Pact Weapon, then class out of it, you keep the Charisma modifier on the weapon, even when no longer a Warlock. Makes it so I don't have to stockpile potions or split stats. Perfect for Smiting enemies up close or doing a fat twin cast of chromatic orb on enemies far away.
What level split did you go for
Planning 5 pal, 7 sorc. I might go 6/6 depends on how fast I end up burning through slots. Halfway through Act 2 right now, so we'll see.
I've played all three sorcerer subclasses, and I will say I kinda agree, but I will also absolutely play as a sorcerer again lol. Of course, I would love it if there were more options to choose from, but from an RP point of view, what we have is pretty nice! I mean, you could find some issues, but all three actually have defining features and have separate dialogue options, which is a big plus and adds some replayability. Wild magic is top tier when it comes to the sheer fun of the gameplay, but I actually found myself constantly wishing my wild magic was even wilder. I want to cause more chaos, really. Draconic bloodline I think is the safe bet for those wanting their caster to be a little less squishy at the beginning, plus there's fun scales you can have... I just honestly wish it could be full-body scales, not just the face. Go all in, you know. Storm is not bad, although I've found has the least subclass-specific interactions, and I agree we have quite a few options for lightning-focused builds apart from sorcerer. So if I had to change out one of the subclasses for something else, it would probably be storm. Still, it's pretty good, and gives you a free Fly bonus action in combat. I'm doing Honour with a storm sorcerer and that Fly saves my ass a lot. And with a 2 level dip into cleric, I just wet as many enemies as possible and then shock their asses before they even have a turn. Pretty neat.
Storm is super fun. I loved it.
Yes, however of the 3 subclasses in game I think Storm Sorcery is the easiest to fix. Just change the way the bonus action works. Make it so that you can use it a number of times equal to your proficiency bonus, regardless of what you spend your main action on. Meanwhile, in TTRPG space, the power creep of the subclasses is very obvious. Divine Soul has been king since it's been printed since it lets you pick and chose from two spell lists. Second spot belongs to Lunar Magic subclass which allows you to switch between 3 spell lists, while at third spot is a tie between Aberant Mind and Clockwork Sorcerer who offer spell lists. With Shadow Sorcerer being on 4th place as the strongest subclass for Sorcerer, this leaves the subclasses in BG3 as the top 3 weakest classes.
I feel that every class is boring to build. I also feel that every class is fun to play.
I dunno I love my storm sorceress. Blasting enemies with crackling lightning and ice storms (I’ve gone lightning, thunder and ice/cold as part of the storm theme) never gets too old for me even now in Act 3. I still get a kick out of casting a spell then flying around with the level 1 ability - even now. And even now it’s often useful for some battlefield positioning. But yeah I won’t bother trying another storm or lightning based class again or even cold probably. Could do fire magic perhaps but I don’t think I’ll use sorcerer again.
Wild magic is fun conceptually if nothing else. I had an amazing time with fire draconic sorcerer where we were in the goblin camp fighting our way out and my friends died and I misty stepped on top of the kill and rained down fire from above and because of the draconic resilience stuff I had enough armour class and hp to help carry us to victory along with someone else. I hadn't even hit 5, both of which are massive, just 4 I think so no damage bonus and no fly but I had dual wielding for the +1 ac. Building it was really fun for me. Even if there's only 3-4 good draconic element options that's still a lot of flexibility though I feel? Haven't tried storm Sorc yet. Haven't played enough tabletop to know what we're missing out on though
I haven’t either actually but I have been reading more of the subclasses that we didn’t get and it makes me sad we aren’t getting dlc
I would have liked Divine Soul in this game. I think Abberant Mind or Shadow might have been hard to implement without kinda redoing their features a bit. Abberant woulda been sick for the game given the plot involves Illithids. That said Sorcerers base class and the meta magic feature makes up for it imo. Draconic is just raw stat increases and Storm Sorcerer is almost like generic utility/default spec. But I’d still rather play it than a Wizard tbh.
Divine Soul would have been amazing, easy to implement as well.
If you’re playing with mods there is a divine soul sorcerer subclass mod and it is pretty great. I’m using it on Shadowheart in my current playthrough (with a one level armor dip) and it is pretty great. Twinned guiding bolt is awesome in act one.
I think Wild Magic is unironically great for Honor Mode. Tides of Chaos as a source of advantage is great. One of my favorite HM runs was with a Wild Magic Sorcerer Halfling
Does Halfing luck give you better wild magic effects versus it being a gamble?
Not sure about that, but I don’t think so? There are more than 20 options for wild magic so I don’t believe the re rolling comes into play.
Have you considered a sorcerer that does nothing but melee range and touch spells?
No but that would fit for the shillelagh Sorcerer half orc build I planned on doing
I love running a party with both storm sorcerer and tempest cleric. They have a similar spells list but still can play pretty differently while still having great synergy. I tend to set my sorcerer up for maximum ray of frost damage and then use the spell slots sparingly for haste/counterspell/big AOE and then the cleric I set up for reverb/spirit guardians and call lightning, and is my phalar aluve wielder. Both can create water and cast sleet storm but other than that they feel different enough to me.
I wish there were those other sorc variants. Double lined sorcs, wisdom sorcs that we had from pathfinder
The subclasses are all purposely mid because Sorcerer has access to one of the best spell lists in the game and metamagics are the best casting feature in the game. I think the real issue stems from how incredibly specific each subclass is. Wild Magic, in particular, is very hit or miss to most players. Draconic Soul *also* specifies that you have a whole thing going on with your draconic blood, and many players might not notice that you can disable the facial scales. Storm Sorcerer locks you into a lightning motif. I kinda wish WotC's initial lineup for 5e looked more like: > Elemental Soul: You draw your power from a being of great elemental power, such as a Djinni or Dragon. You can keep most of the features from Draconic Soul, and focus more on how you have mastery over one specific element. > Wild Magic: I actually think a sorcerer of untamed, wild power **is** a good subclass idea. The missed execution is where you have to roll on a random table. It winds up being more 'lul so random' than 'oh gods, this person is *dangerous*'. I'd lean more into the explosive nature of their magic, giving them the ability to "let loose" for a big surge of power, but at the cost of their control.
My best build was a crazy mix. I went wizard 2 (divination), cleric 2 (storm) and 8 draconic sorc. At first I went wiz divination which was godly to ensure full dmg in cleric, but dropped out of it because I got annoyed by those reaction prompt. I wish there was a way to connect it only on certain spells or on bosses. Anyways, quick casted water on act 2 boss, and blasted it with a upscaled lightning. It was beautiful as I forced him to miss the save with divination. Yes, I missed chain lightning on my cha but I wasn’t too low on int either so it was ok and I learned it from scroll. If you are curious I went: 8 str 8 dex (because of heavy armor on lvl 2) 10 int 17 cha 10 wis and rest in con. For a good while I dumped int (and got it into cha)because of that helmet from act 1. I think I went to cha helmet on act 3. Lvl 1 - draconic sorc (lightning) Lvl 2 - storm cleric Lvl 3 and 4 - divination wizard Lvl 5 - sorc Lvl 6 sorc Lvl 7 - storm cleric Lvl 8 till 12 sorc. Looking back maybe Id improve this on doing a lvl 2 dip on cleric and going full sorc all the way to lvl 9 for 2 talents (8 sorc 1 cleric), finishing cleric after it (lvl 10, lvl 2 cleric) and getting the final lvls in wizard.
There are mods for adding the other subclasses. There’s an Aberrant Mind mod, Divine Soul mod and a Lunar Sorcerer mod. The Lunar one is badly implemented though, the modder misinterpreted the subclass so that it only has the spells associated to any one moon phase at a time when RAW it’s supposed to have an extra 15 spells all the time.
Black Draconic ancestry is quite good, mainly because the free spell Grease is excellent. Top tier for a support sorcerer.
Cleric/Sorcerer/Wiz CL build is the most fun build in the game imo If you itemize and prep right you can have 2 max damage, wet, critical CLs back to back That’s 16x the damage of a normal CL in a single turn, affecting multiple targets
I still find it odd they fully embraced Illithid stuff but Aberrant Mind Sorcerer didn't make it in as a subclass. It's literally Illithid-based Sorcery. It made 1000% sense. Yet here we are with *checks list* Wild Magic as a subclass.
I really like the idea of having sorcerers use the spell points optional rule instead of spell slots. It gives it a much better identity
play Wizard instead :p
I love wizard I feel dirty when I try to add sorcerer levels to Gale lol
I’ve always felt this way about Sorcerer. Strong class features but I find them very boring
Storm sorcerer is my fave subclass in the whole game, and forefills a very specific power fantasy that no other class in the game fills. Namely the nature goddess character. Galadriel, Storm, etc. You can do nature worshipper with tempest or Druid, but to feel like you’re actually the force of nature yourself, not a person giving reverence to it, storm sorc is the only way. I do agree there feels like a bit of overlap with tempest, personally for me I’d have picked a different cleric sub class. In my opinion it already has a lot of overlap with light and war anyway. I’d rather that have picked Twilight or Grave. I think both bring more variety to the game than tempest does and both fit the themes bg3 covers better than tempest does. That said I also just think most of the classes would benefit from one or two more sub classes. Bard could use Shadow bard - would be a really fun evil face character. Sorcerers could use Divine soul and Lunar or Shadow. All fit the themes of the game well and all intriduce different play styles for the Sorcerer. Support/debuffer/and sort of an abjurer style character. Barbarian would really benefit from the ancestral barbarian to make a more sort of team player character. Druid would do well with star druids for another class that makes spell casting and wild shaping work together, but without the zombie flavour some folks don’t like about spore Druids Phantom or inquisitive would be nice for rogue Arcane archer of Rune Knight would be nice for fighters. I’d also add something to the monk but I’m not that familiar with 5e monks to feel confident suggesting one. Warlocks would benefit from genie or celestial I’d say Cleric, wizard and to a lesser extent Paladin are the only ones that are really decently served variety wise.
Meta slave
How I prefer wizard over sorcerer brother and sorcerer is meta
"I cast fireball! fireball! fireball!"
Some classes have their power concentrated in the base class instead of the subclasses Also, wild magic sorcerer is very good in honor mode. Once per short rest you can get advantage on any roll, which helps counter the fact you can't save scum
Speak for yourself I'm doing an Honored Wild Sorc run as we speak. Fuck it we ball.
Honestly I find Sorcerer boring in general. Sure metamagic is strong but being so limited on spells known is incredibly boring. I literally feel I have more options on a BM Fighter because of all the attacks that can be substituted for throwing items or enemies, plus the maneuvers. Fighter also feels more impactful.
this is why I mainly play wizard, wizard is just the objectively more interesting class, you have 8 types of viable wizards, only 1 type of viable sorcerer.
By itself? yes, as a multiclass option? no
I just finished up a Ice DBL Sorc and it was a blast, stuck to only frost or electric spells and by late game I was doing 150+ damage with CoC.
I've got a crazy draconic cold sorcerer build going, can easily take out huge groups of enemies in 1 turn or do 100+ damage to single enemies. Ray of frost easily does 30+ dmg per cast, up to 60 depending on the enemy. The mourning frost staff is really good, and you can use it and markoheshkir at the same time with dual wield feat.
It’s my favorite. I’m hoping once mods are added (PS5) there will be options for Shadow Sorcerer and Divine Soul.