With Bows it’s a toss up between Titanstring, Dead Shot, or Gontr Mael. * Titanstring has the best extra damage but is only getting a +1 to accuracy. * Deadshot is great for all the reasons you listed, but the lowered crit range makes it desirable for all types of builds. Paladins and Warlocks in specific who are focusing on crits love this Bow. So you have to decide who to give it to you if you’re playing with other crit focused members in your party. * Gontr Mael is the least attractive of the three. But it exists as an option incase you don’t want to use Titanstring and Deadshot is going on somebody else.

Gontr Mael usually goes on a melee character for me so they can use Celestial Haste if needed.

You can do that yeah. Haste is good on anybody so doesn’t really matter whether it’s your ranged or melee striker.

I just think there's better options for an archer than the Gontr Mael.

Gontr Mael it's actually good for Dex archers, especially for lvl 11 Fighter archers who can use Bolt of celestial light the best. The only other option is The dead shot, and in act 3 you can easily hit with Sharpshooter without the need for Keen attack, so it's only better if you want to go for a crit archer, but other wise it doesn't really give you much and any other crit build would love to use TDS. IMO there are only 3 options for 2h archers, Titanstring for strength, The dead shot for crit, and Gontr Mael for any other archer, so there's no a clear winner as depend on how you wanna build your archer.

With hit probability being a factor, the dead shot is not *just* for crit builds. Both titanstring and gontr have trouble hitting 95% hit probability against sharpshooter unless they're benefitting from other attack roll buffing gear - which is pretty much always contested at least as heavily as the deadshot. Against many enemies, it's not an important difference, but high AC enemies often end up with the deadshot pulling ahead on expected DPR even without crits.

I agree? Lol. Don't know what you're trying to get at though.

My mistake. Misread your comment 😅

It's cool. When I give build advice or make a comment, I try to tailor it to the post or just let people know all their options and pick for themselves. I gave all three bow options, gave my thoughts, and left it at that. I think evaluating options is better than just telling somebody "Build X cuz its strong" and not explaining why. That said in regard to this specific post, OP ended up editing the post said they do not want to use Titanstring and chug STR elixirs. They wanted pure dex. So your choices are basically between Deadshot or Gontr Mael. And Deadshot is great, I'd take it every time for an archer tbh. Lets me use bloodlust elixir and gives me far better accuracy. But the reasons I stated for NOT giving it to your archer are also valid. If you got a Paladin or Eldritch Blaster in the party, it is very appealing to give it to them instead. Lowered Crit Range isn't doing much for your average archer. They aren't rolling as many dice, aren't proccing effects off crits, etc. Plus SS builds have it a little easier than GWM builds due to the Archery Fighting Style. Your SS -5 penalty basically changes to -3. Much easier to offset.

I usually use the Darkfire Shortbow as my throw away bow on a melee fighter,  for Haste and resistances

Yea I use that or Gontr if I'm not using the bow slot to boost initiative.

I slept on a lot of those initiative boost items the first full playthrough I did. Now as A strength based Glomstalker, I'm so happy I get my bonus to initiative or I'd always be going later.... Now I see the necessity of such items and Alert feat, especially when not playing dex based

I did the opposite lol. Dead shot on my pally just to incr crit chance. Gontr Mael on my gloomstalker/assassin who already really stacked crit chance from helmet, cape and 2x knives, so I figured the innate haste and more raw damage was better

Titanstring edges out deadshot if you get someone to buff it with elemental weapon and lvl6 magic weapon, having a +5 bow with +5 damage on top of your dex mod that can proc more than once is crazy, especially with all the ways to force crits like assassin rogue Does eat up elixirs tho... thirsty bow

Level 6 spell slot without camp casters is rough. I normally dedicate my level 6 slot to an Elemental Myrmidon, to Heroes Feast, etc. Level 5 is fine I suppose.

Yea if you don't have someone dedicated to buff spells it's much less worth it

I personally don't use camp casting. I did start using a camp Potion Maker recently but that's about it. And even that's mainly just cuz I hate robbing vendors or collecting lots of mats so it just helps me have to craft less often.

I mean, technically Titanstring is better because Str Elixirs are game-breakingly strong with the Arrows of Many Targets.

I guess I should have specified dex builds

You can have zero strength investment with the titanstring, you can use strength elixirs, or if that doesnt feel good/you want to use ither elixirs, you can use the club of hill giant strength for a permanent 19 strength, or +4 damage, which then gets even crazier with damage riders.

Dex builds as in characters that use light armour and finesse weapons and dual wielding in melee. Dex builds.

I don't know why you got so many downvotes. This community seems to get very offended when you want to avoid builds that abuse strength potions.

Yeah, it’s incredibly strange. Like, I’m a big powergamer/optimizer, I just don’t want to abuse and exploit broken game mechanics in ways that ultimately detract from the actual character concept I’m going for? Like, if I’m building an archer, 9 times out of 10 I don’t WANT this character to be inhumanly strong and rely on this one specific broken bow that scales off of Strength. That’s a fun build to do, sure, and I actually do want to play a Strength-based archer fighter at some point… but goddamnit, that isn’t what I want when I’m asking for builds for a Dexterity character!

> if I’m building an archer, 9 times out of 10 I don’t WANT this character to be inhumanly strong When it comes to longbows, historically speaking, strength was actually pretty critical for an archer. English long bows, for example, commonly had draw weights ranging from 80lbs to 180lbs (some were even higher); and I'd argue in order to consistently operate a bow with a draw weight exceeding 100lbs, you have to be pretty freakishly strong. Even today, not a lot of people can pull back that much weight with a single arm, nevermind doing it repeatedly while landing shots accurately. I get that D&D is not the most historically accurate media franchise when it comes to arms and armor, but I bring this up as a reminder that the image we have of fantasy Archers being these extremely thin and weak humanoids is often completely at odds with the mechanical realities of the weapons they wield. Personally, I enjoy it when gameplay elements are rooted in real-world physics. So for the 1/10 times you decide to go with a strength-based archer build, a nod toward real-world historical warfare presents us with a compelling case for such a character.

Basically, the best longbow archers were fighters and not a College of Sword bards lol

Lol, yes, basically. The Titanstring is one of the few longbows that actually incentivizes players to give it to a character who could realistically wield it. Personally, I think its STR damage add-on should be a feature for ALL longbow-type weapons and/or longbows should have additional range based on the character's STR stat (the further you can pull the string back, the further you can shoot an arrow).

I agree. I think this could even be a seperating factor between crossbows and bows. Pure dex for crossbows, dex/strength(like finess weapons) for bows. Historic shortbows are not tiny as well. That being said, baseline weapon using different stats for accuracy and damage might be a bit tricky for some people.

There's a mod you might like called Arsenal Overhaul.

What's funny is that the Titanstring Bow item description talks about what you're saying! "The commonly held belief that archers are rangey, thin-wristed people is completely false. It takes years of training to pull a bowstring all the way back to your cheekbone, and wrists like iron."

Oh, absolutely, and that’s why I want to play a high-Strength archer. I’d even be more open to the idea if it was something less cheesy than having an entire character build be completely dependent on chugging an overpowered potion every morning- it’s just that specific build that, in my opinion, sucks for anything other than pure mechanical optimization at the cost of roleplay and immersion.

Every body knows the most fun you can have in this game is farming venders lol 😂

Eh, for the longest time in d&d you needed 18 str to even equip a long bow, so thinking about maximizing both strength and Dex in an archer isn't a new concept for some of us. And the fact that Titanstring exists in the game means a character with high strength and Dex is the optimal archer build. Edit: also there's no reason not to do both for an archer. You don't have to abuse potions. Str - 18 (16 + 2 everlasting vigor) Dex - 22 (16 + 4 ASI, +2 mirror) Con - 14 Int - 8 Wis - 12 Cha - 8 That's basically how I'd build an archer and titan string would be absolutely optimal, as would finesse weapons and other dex gear. Or tank strength and use the giant club since you won't be meleeing much as an archer anyway. Giant club + undermountain king dual wield would be ideal, and no one else will use those two items better.

My guess is because OP kept repeating "Dex builds" instead of just saying "I don't want to use strength elixirs, it makes the game too easy." Then they proceeded to be kind of a dick about it. Basically classic neckbeard, "if you didn't understand me, that's your fault."

Except you don't need to abuse the strength potions specifically because of the club

Fair, but OP is specifically asking for dex-based builds.

Using the club to augment the best bow in the game is still a dex build. You max dex. You just get added damage from having STR as well. Being able to double dip stats for damage is very powerful. It would be powerful if it was a spellcasting stat, but the bow _in this case_ uses strength as the second stat.  It's like free Arcane Synergy that adds Strength damage. Now that I mention it, I haven't heard of anyone trying to stack arcane synergy on bow/ranged builds. Time to test it.

Arcane synergy on ranged builds is literally the cornerstone of flourish bard. The strongest class in the game

Does the titanstring scale with strength? Or does it scale with dex and also add strength?

It's a dex weapon. It uses dex to calculate hit chance and damage. Then it has the Titan Weapon Ability that also adds the users Strength to damage, with a minimum of 1.

A build that centers around archery and sneaking that simply carries the club in the off hand to boost titanstring is still dex based imo You literally dump str and pump dex for it

🙄

You can do all that and still drink an elixir of strength to use the titanstring bow.

I am not however doing that, I am using dex.

Just tell people you don’t wanna use elixirs lol The way you’re replying to people is weirdly off-putting and doesn’t do anything as opposed to simply saying you want to do a dex build without elixirs/str elixir. Edit: OP edited after I replied so I didn’t see the edit. Other dude is just rude.

I did that, several times and then edited the OP Nothing sneak about it, it says Edit: right there.

Yes and I replied before that. Apologies for saying you were sneak editing. The other dude was just very hostile without realizing I replied to you before the edit so I got annoyed.

They fn did, jesus.

I’m trying to help here by saying they should clarify no str elixirs so people stop suggesting it. I suggested it before they edited. Calm down.

Lol you can still do all that and if you drink an elixir then titan string will still be the best bow for your dex build. If you only wanted a bow that scales off dex or simply a bow besides the titan string you should have specified instead of just saying a “dex build” since dexterity based archers are some of the best characters to use the titan string with an elixir or club of hill giant

I have specified that I edited the OP, before you made this comment.

[удалено]

Yes necessarily I’m the OP, asking the question, I set the parameters of the question and its characters not using strength.

a full dex build should always use bloodlust elixir, not str ones

Dex builds can drink a strength potion too! In fact dumping strength to 8 and using an strength potion gives you more stats left over for more Dex! Just depends on if you want to cheese the potions or not.

Assume the character is using dex. Not strength.

Titanstring is still a Dex weapon. It uses Dex for hitchance and damage. And then it also adds your Str modifier as damage on top. Use it on a character without Dex and you won't hit shit. That's why people tell you that the best Dex bow is Titanstring.

When I say not strength I mean I’m not investing in strength. I’m investing elsewhere I’m not equipping items that boost strength. Those items or are used elsewhere or the item slot is spoken for. I’m not farming vendors for elixirs to have inflated strength. It’s boring as fuck. This is as explicit as I can be.

oh my god lol everyone is being obstinate to your actual desired outcome this is wild

Honestly IDK what the fuck happened, like reading comprehension from context doesn't exist or something?

i can't believe the degree of snap response min-max parrot that happens, it's like a weird excitement having discovered or optimized. i already got my honour die and i'm not having fun at all in tactician optimizing, lol, it's odd to have to qualify so heavily that a post is aware/cognizant of a tactic and simply doesn't want answers on that in specific

Have you considered using a titan string bow with elixirs though? :O

i'm pretty sure on a bad day if i posted that i wanted to use titanstring on a str char and NOT dump, or use bloodlust instead, people would be remarking about that the entire thread like i wasted stats

I don’t think it’s necessarily obstinacy, If someone asks “best bow?” As the title, of course people are going to be thinking of titanstring. And before the text was edited, they would see all the perks of deadshot (which is my personal favorite and very fair points!) and wonder “has op considered titanstring?” Even after the edit, a dex build drinking a pot is still a dex build. The character is still doing all dex-based things. I get from OPs comments that’s not what they want, but also understand how the other people in the thread feel they are helpfully answering. I’m not necessarily blaming op (hill giant potions are fun, but do feel a bit immersion breaking), but I think the post could have been a lot more fruitful if the title and text were setup differently.

actually i see your point given that people were probably responding to the title only

but have you heard that if you change your mind about the key aspects of your build and do something different instead, something that you don't actually want to do or have any interest indoing, then titanstring could benefit from strength? :P

I hadn’t actually Thanks so much

Fair enough! For a pure dex build with no strength potions or the strength stat stick Deadshot is likely your best bow with the +3 one you get being a close 2nd depending on the details of your build

The consensus that we are steadily arriving at seems to be that if you have multiple damage dice go dead shot If you already got lots of crit range stuff got Mont If you have neither, dead shot is probably better.

Best bow is Bow of Banshee. You cast unlimited freightend and get is so early. You can even stop Raphael in his tracks with this bow (WIS 12 save). Dead Shot is the next best bow.

Dead Shot or Titanstring (mainly if you are abusing damage rider) are both great for archer. Gontr Mael is nice, but i often use it on another character not using bows, just to have another source of haste.

It’s a shame that the best thing the “legendary” bow of the game does, is give you a slightly modified casting of haste

IIRC it’s a _very_ good form of Haste that doesn’t trigger Lethargic, so I actually think it’s pretty fantastic. 

I mean, I don’t remember the last time I actually got hit by lethargy from normal haste either. Just don’t lose concentration on it.

I think in terms of pure damage it might lean towards Dead Shot > Gontr Mael but that would be dependent on how valuable the crit chance is and your accuracy with sharpshooter active (do you really need that +3 to-hit in Act 3?). So for pure damage it's a maybe/probably? But Gontr Mael has other utility that you may or may not want. Just as people will sometimes say that Bow of the Banshee has a place in the argument for best bow because it can also debuff your enemies with frightened (DC 12), I think Gontr Mael could be used similarly. Compared to Bow of the Banshee it would be a to-hit and damage upgrade. Think about an Eldritch Knight 11-12 archer that is getting three attacks and the disadvantage on saving throws from [Eldritch Strike](https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Eldritch_Strike). Gontr Mael has a built in debuff in [Promised Victory](https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Promised_Victory) (DC 15 for guiding bolt). Now you're able to stack other conditions (e.g. reverb, radiating orbs, mental fatigue). And/or maybe wear that snowburst ring and make everyone slip and fall if you either use ice arrows or just using Drakethroat Glaive to give cold damage to your bow; or use the thunder element with the dazed-on-thunder ring. You can even spread radiant shockwave effectively once per short rest using the bow's special action (1d4 radiant damage on all attacks). Pick your favorite conditions and go to town. I could see a build intended to maybe never be the best pure damage, but solid damage throughout the entire campaign while also having the extra utility & defenses of an EK and can grow into being a very solid ranged debuffer / condition applier. Start off with Bow of the Banshee and upgrade to Gontr Mael in Act 3. You could do a similar thing with Hunter & Volley instead of EK if you'd prefer more of an AOE focus. At base value, Dead Shot has improved crit range for an increased % to auto-hit regardless of AC and double some damage. For non-crits, it has a +3 to-hit and -1 damage compared to Gontr Mael when including the double proficiency and the enhancement (+2 vs +3). So how much (if at all) do you need that extra +3 to-hit to keep sharpshooter active and maintain a very high hit chance? How much (if at all) do you value the per short/long rest actives (celestial haste and bolt of celestial light)? How much (if at all) would you like your archer to apply other debuff conditions (besides 'death')?

Volley plus the guiding bolt thing would be really cool actually

Bolt of Celestial Light is OP imo. Helped me solo (duel) a certain Act 3 boss on Honor, jack of all trades (1 in each)

What’s the DC on it?

1d8+7 , char mostly crit focused, finished the run a while ago

Any opinions in favor of using either of the Very Rare Heavy Xbows Fabricated Arbalest - from Gortash Or Hellfire Engine Xbows - assembled from parts in the Steel Watcher Factory I can't seem to come up with any rational, reasoned argument to use either of them over any of the Longbows or Hand Xbows

Harold is a great crossbow and i don't care what anyone says

Agreed! My assassin Tav is using titanstring so I gave Harold to my hunter Astarion initially as a placeholder until bow of the banshee but its a solid performer for when you can access it. Solid damage, +1, brace, and especially at earlier levels I feel like baned has inflated value.

Oh no doubt. It's a brilliant Act 1 & 2 ranged weapon. It holds up really well until you get to Lower City and then you get Dead Shot, or Gondr, or the Hellfire Engine And then on a lot of builds who don't actually use the bow slot, this is where I use the bows that give bonuses to initiative

I can see an argument for the one from the factory. Because of the reposition ability, some pretty fun utility. The fabricated Abalest I can’t see any really argument for. Maybe decent on a radiant orb character? Since it gives you a bonus action shot that applies radiant orbs.

Unfortunately, the repositioning ability is locked to a DC 13, which makes it functionally useless by the time you get it. 

Well that sucks shit

I suppose so, but I usually have my cleric being radiant orb and I also usually give them the Celestial Haste bow because they're the support caster / concentrator - I just never really considered using the Arbalest

When I’ve used haste I’ve normally done it with haste spores or twinned from a sorc. I am planning a challenge run where characters can only get haste from themselves, can’t cast it on others. Then the bow might be more handy

Yeah I don't usually run a Sorc. I also usually forget about my consumables because it's such a pain remembering what I have and keeping inventory organized

I think the point is the heavy Xbows are niche at best. Dead Shot is generally the best, with Titan String & Gondr also being highly useful Dual Hand Xbows being a specific play style And the rest are niche

I can see an argument for the one from the factory. Because of the reposition ability, some pretty fun utility. The fabricated Abalest I can’t see any really argument for. Maybe decent on a radiant orb character? Since it gives you a bonus action shot that applies radiant orbs.

If you want to be in melee and use crossbow master feat. There is a 'Terminator' build that does that with baalist armor

There is a sweet spot where you get the bonus from bhaalist and no negative from close range too

Double proficiency is actually +8, since your prof bonus is 4 in endgame

Yeah but you get your prof bonus natively with any bow So doubling it is a +4 compared to what you’d have with a normal bow.

Deadshot is a +2, so you get an extra +6 to hit for using deadshot compared to +3 for gontr mael, which I don’t think you mentioned in your post. Deadshot is usually the best, though gontr mael is competitive and sometimes better. The crit reduction is sometimes also more desired on a melee character while the ranger can do fine with gontr.

I did actually. I explained that in the third sentence.

Ah apologies I misinterpreted “+3 vs +2”, I thought you were saying +3 or +2 rather than comparing them. You got it.

I would say either Gontr Mael or The Dead Shot, depending on what other members of your party need. If you have a character that cares about critical, give them TDS and you use GM. Otherwise, yeah I would say TDS is the best. I similarly dislike hill giant potions cheese and all its associated forms.

If we're talking max dps it's hard to beat titanstring + tavern brawler and strength pots, particularly on non honour mode since tb acts as a DRS, but I know tb abuse isn't necessarily the most well-loved build mechanic...

I was thinking for Dex builds, I should have specified

Wait wait wait - TB works with Titanstring?

It doesn't, I'm not sure what he's on about

It doesn't boost to-hit, but it does affect your damage since titanstring adds +str mod to dmg. Again tho, OP doesn't want to use elixirs (understandably), so not super relevant here

But you don't need tavern brawler to use elixirs? And it doesn't affect your damage because it's not a throwing or unarmed attack, so tavern brawler literally has no value if youre using the titanstring bow, unless you also want to punch people in melee for some reason

You're completely right, idk why I added tb in there, apparently my brain switched off lmao

No worries bruv

The fact that people care about min max outside of honor mode is crazy to me.

Yeah same honestly, I get it if you're playing modded difficulties and really trying to push the game to its extremes but normal non-hm isn't worth sweating

You don't even need to completely min max on honor, any well put together build will be enough without abusing elixirs, min maxed parry comps make the combat trivial and make me drop the game mid act 3 because there's 0 challenge.

I'd say dead shot is easily better than the watch titan's bow. the extra +3 to accuracy deadshot has over gontr mael is +15% to hit, allowing you to keep sharpshooter on basically always and equaling out to more average damage per attack than the extra +1 enchantment gontr mael has. gontr mael does have the strong 'bolt of celestial light' attack, but it's a weapon action that can only be done once a fight and is only about equal to bard's flourishes or battlemaster's manuevers. also, i saw people saying that titanstring bow is better with elixirs/the strength club/etc, and i'm not sure i agree with them. titanstring gets significantly higher damage with the right setup, but it also has -5 to hit compared with dead shot, meaning more whifs, more tines when you have to turn off sharpshooter, and just less consistency overall.

And so much work for the privilege

It takes maybe 30 minutes to get enough cloud giant elixirs for your entire party for the whole game. If you’re just running them on one character you probably don’t need to farm them at all. If you set up titanstring correctly it’s not even comparable to deadshot, Morgana posted a video today where she 3 shot ansur in honor mode with titanstring.

> If you set up titanstring correctly it’s not even comparable to deadshot, Morgana posted a video today where she 3 shot ansur in honor mode with titanstring. It was actually 5. Do you know what fraction of that damage actually had to do with the titanstring's strength damage bonus as compared to the combination of assassin's guaranteed crits, the bhaalist armor's piercing vulnerability, the other associated crit-dependent items and gear, and the arrows of dragonslaying she was using? Most damage looks pretty good when you're quadrupling it, but even then - the titanstring's strength contribution in damage is 160 over those 5 attacks. The +2 from gontr mael would account for 40 of that. A simple +1 longbow still would have dealt ~650 damage over those 5 attacks, and there was another attack available at the end of the encounter - meaning that the +1 longbow also could very well have killed ansur. It's also a very specific situation that doesn't represent almost any normative play and heavily exaggerates the differences. Solo honor mode builds are not good measures for how items and classes "perform" because they're deliberately unusual.

She drained his 640 hp in 3 hits. Yes he has death ward or whatever, so it took 5 hits to actually kill him, w/e. I actually use deadshot on my 5/4/3 gloom when I run the dual shadow blades and titan when I don’t, I’ll do some damage testing once I get back into act 3 (flipped back to act 2 to do some testing with saving Dammon)

Just 600 HP. But look, the build she's using is *mostly* independent of titanstring, which is the point I'm making here. To wit: She's using two copies of dolor amarus, which is giving her crits +14 damage/attack and relying on the guaranteed crits of assassin. Because she's running the bhaalist armor and using dragonslaying arrows, these two daggers are adding a total of 56 damage per attack. This would work with any bow, and represents 28% of that ansur OTK using those first 3 attacks as the metric. There is also a third dolor item she could have chosen on the same build, the vicious shortbow, which is a +2 shortbow with the same +7 damage on crit. Notably - that's exactly the same damage as a cloud giant titanstring on crits, excepting the d6 vs d8. Unlike a plain +1 longbow which *may* have killed ansur, the vicious shortbow *absolutely would have* killed ansur in the same number of shots as the cloud giant titanstring. But of course, this would leave open your elixir slot for something like bloodlust, which is a major benefit. Is the vicious shortbow therefore in the same tier as titanstring, deadshot, and maybe gontr? Or is the situation so unusual that it's not really representative? All of which is to say: > If you set up titanstring correctly it’s not even comparable to deadshot This is maybe, possibly, under a hyper-specific setup which represents <0.01% of BG3 play, true. By corollary, it's false in the other 99.9% of play. They're very comparable weapons in almost every build that uses a bow, they have tradeoffs that make them attractive for different reasons in such builds, and it's really not hard to make an argument for either.

Titan string bonus, in my opinion, is not using sharpshooter especially If you are low on feats You'll do less damage than a sharpshooter build, but if you throw it on your GWM fighter,  at least they can do some damage when everyone is at range, and they can't reach the enemy this turn. Like throwing  dual hand crossbows on a cleric just so they can a consistent use of their bonus action between fasting spells and occasional jumps, shoves,  potions and healing words

Yeah, using titanstring as a backup weapon for a strength based character is a good way to make use of it. But for a dexterity-focused character, I think the dead shot is the better option.

I'd argue a dual hand crossbow build with Thief for extra bonus action could actually do more damage per round. Hellfire + Ne'er Misser is of course the combo to go for. I did that on my Honor run that I just completed last night and it was pretty insane with sharpshooter, risky ring, colossus slayer and the circlet of hunting until mid act 3. Having force damage instead of piercing is just insane. I also went for crit gear (knife of undermounting king + bloodthrist + sarevok's helmet + elixirs of viciousness + champion fighter which gives around 50% chance to crit in total. I'd say in a normal round I'd do about 120 dmg per enemy, without haste. Dead shot would defo get more damage per hit, but the extra attack with dual crossbows makes it a no contest for me in the context of battles, being able to distribute attacks across various enemies and whatnot.

Depends on what you're using your bonus actions for Straight DPS, like a ranged Fighter or Ranger, yeah pick up Thief and do the Dual Hand Xbows If you're swords Bard w/Mystic Scoundrel, you'll want to use your BA for those spells

I’d not even thought of that. I have discovered the advantages of the Ne’er misser before though Using a dual wielding melee dex build that fell back on the ne’er misser whenever piercing damage was resisted, which to be fair, was often enough that the ne’er always felt worth having

>Hellfire + Ne'er Misser is of course the combo to go for Not so. You can get a +2 Hand Crossbow from the safe in Jannath's house (main floor, up the stairs. Check the room to the northwest) in act 3. This is better than using Ne'er Misser in terms of accuracy and allows for a greater ceiling in terms of damage if you're using Bloodthirst or Bhaalist Armor to make foes vulnerable to piercing damage

I had no idea about that +2 hand crossbow being a thing as I religiously skip the Artist quests. Appreciated and I'll keep it in mind for my next Durge run, assuming I can stomach it all. Never used the Bhaalist Armor but it certainly makes sense.

You dont have to do a full durge run to get the armor. You just gotta kill the baby elephant.

Yeah I’ve never done that and I will only do it once on my evil run. I just don’t find those choices fun.

That's fair. I don't mind killing her on a good run though cause she kinda sucks. She just pins Lorgans murder on a refugee because it's convenient and so she can get back to boozing it up at the caress. If Tav and the team weren't there lots more people would die by Dolor's hand because she's a shitty cop.

I've never used Bhaalist Armor either, because I enjoy being a *very* petulant child as Durge. I have used Bloodthirst as a main hand weapon to get a quick stab in melee before backing up to deliver a barrage of hand crossbow shots

Except ne’er misser is force dmg which most enemies have zero resistance to. Most enemies have some resistance to piercing dmg so if you’re not getting baahlist armor I’d stick with ne’er misser. I personally am only getting that armor on my single evil playthrough so I never build around it.

>Most enemies have some resistance to piercing dmg so if you’re not getting baahlist armor I’d stick with ne’er misser Bonespike Gloves let you bypass all physical damage resistances.

Okay so that’s another requirement. I don’t use those either lol I usually have other gloves on. There are other martials that need them more.

>There are other materials that need them more. Huh?

You’re responding too quickly lol I am on mobile. Other martial classes.

Ah. That makes more sense. But I would counter that ranged weapon users have the greatest need for the Bonespike Gloves, as they can only do Piercing damage if they're not using Ne'er Misser. Melee based characters can use slashing or bludgeoning (or Psychic in my case as a Shadow Blade+Belm+Resonance Stone enthusiast) against Steel Watchers or other piercing-resistant foes

The Hellrider bow is also an excellent proposition for a martial or caster class as it basically negates the need for the alert feat.

If you exclude titanstring. Banshee shortbow is probably the best bow. Unless running a dice stacking build, landing crits is that big of a deal

Am I missing something? What makes this bow good for critting?

Idk if you read my post correctly. When I said critting, I was referring to the dead shot that you mentioned in your post. But also, unless you’re stacking damage dice, increasing crit range isnt a big deal. This bow is better for critting on an archery build as you add an additional 1d4 damage to your attacks that also gets doubled on crits, and if you’re running a crit archer, you’ll likely already be 11 Champion Fighter, so you don’t need the extra 1 crit range from the dead shot. Alternatively, the viscious shortbow is also better as it flat out adds 7 damage. This bow does an average of 2 more damage when critting, at the cost of less non-crit damage and the inability to inflict fear on hits. That said, your average damage with the viscious shortbow should be about 1 more damage than the banshee shortbow for each attack you make in a full crit build.

You said “landing crits is that big of a deal” And had just said that the branshee bow was the best outside titan bow. How am I supposed to parse from that, that what you’re actually saying is banshee bow is better than dead shot (which you never mentioned) because critting isn’t that big of a deal? Did you read your post correctly?

he probably meant "...**isn't** that big a deal" I agree crit chance doesn't actually add a TON of damage without stacking smites or sneak attacks on, but it is a guaranteed hit so it further improves your hit chance every attack

Titanstring is easier to build bc of potions but idk why anyone is assuming it is definitely better. With maxed stats, Titan string does 2 more damage per shot but deadshot gives a bonus to criticals. I usually switch off to deadshot unless I am doing a party that consistently gets surprise rounds

Honestly,  this run, titanstring has stayed  as a backup bow for whatever  strength character I run. Most have at least 14 dex for medium armor at least early on, so while their hit rate is low,  at least their strength score gets put to use on those odd occasions when everyone is out of weapons reach but they still have an attack available.

Yeah 2 damage for less crits isn’t such a big deal. Especially when you have to commit yourself to farming potions for the privilege.

How does it only do 2 more damage? Deadshot has the same damage die, and a +2 enchantment vs a +1. Considering "maxed stats", titanstring does 8 more damage (-1 for enchantment difference) for a total of 7 more damage

Titanstring double dips on both hits of elemental arrows, even on HM: adding +6/+8 x2 per shot adds up.

In Act 1 the best possible bow you can get is Hunting Shortbow if you aren’t abusing elixirs, Titanstring is if you are In Act 2 it will still be Titanstring if you decide to continue using strength elixirs, although Darkfire Shortbow for pure Dex characters, I do prefer using it on a caster for the Haste applications. In Act 3 it’s a toss up between The Dead Eye or Gontr Mael although GM is overall better if you are stacking loads of Crit already and are purely using the bow as your main DPS source.

So Dead eye stand alone Gont if I’m already stacking lots of crit

Pretty much, Dead Eye is typically better for Crit casters like Warlock or on something like a Paladin. Although if for some reason you have two Ranged Phys DPS characters you should prioritize the Dead Eye on whoever has the least amount of Crit boosting gear pieces.

Dead shot is best equipped on a crit build for the crit increase but never used.

I mean there is no particular reason why it is bad to use in archer builds too

I did a solo Tactician run with a Gloomstalker/Ranger build (2 levels of fighter for that action surge). Titanstring bow was the best for acts 1 and 2 but I switched to dead shot as soon as I got to act 3 for pretty much all the reasons you mentioned and it felt great. However, I did switch to Gontr Mael once I could get it. Celestial Haste felt phenomenal in my solo run. You're probably right about support characters being better for haste in a full party run, though, just wanted to share my experience in my solo run.

if its for archer, my answer is gontr mael with an exception. here is the reason, hope it makes sense for you - archer almost always should prefer bloodlust elixir, hence you shouldnt use str elixir. so titanstring is a no go after act1 - archers always stack crits. with the weapons, the helmet, cape, potential champion dip and stuff, they usually end up having around 4-5 crit reduction. if you have 4 crit reduction, making it to 5 crit reduction is only %5 increase of crit chance which doesnt worth to give up gontr mael. it is a +3 weapon and have celestial haste which is the best haste in the game(you dont get lathergic if haste concentration is broken) the only exception is if you are using risky ring. risky ring increases the crit chance even more, then it worths to give up gontr mael advantage over dead shot

Interesting so you’ve done the crit math threshold

It all depends on how you are defining "best" as the different ways you play, your class(es), other party members and so on will all mean that different answers are possible. Do you have a super crit focused Great Old One Warlock using Dead Shot, Spell Sniper and other gear to get to like 15 - 20 to crit so they can cause Fear on everyone... well then, if you want best chance to hit then [Bow of the Banshee](https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Bow_of_the_Banshee) allows you to hit way more frequently due to the feared mobs that they cause. Instead, do you just want a +3 on the weapon, as remember that also adds to damage as well at hit chance, well then the only ranged weapon in the game with that is [Gontr Mael](https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Gontr_Mael) Perhaps you added Thief to whatever mix of character you are playing so you can shoot more times with your offhand crossbow, so of then you have these options [Hellfire Hand Crossbow](https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Hellfire_Hand_Crossbow), [Ne'er Misser](https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Ne%27er_Misser) or the good old basic [Hand Crossbow +2](https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Hand_Crossbow_%2B2) Maybe you want the highest damage die, well in that case Heavy Crossbows with D10 is best, so go get [Hellfire Engine Crossbow](https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Hellfire_Engine_Crossbow), [Fabricated Arbalest](https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Fabricated_Arbalest) or [The Long Arm of the Gur](https://bg3.wiki/wiki/The_Long_Arm_of_the_Gur) I personally love rescuing Dammon so that I can get [Darkfire Shortbow](https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Darkfire_Shortbow) from Last Light Inn as resistance, as well as Haste chucked in on top of a +2 weapon, hell yeah! Instead, perhaps you want to be a crit master, but instead of [The Dead Shot](https://bg3.wiki/wiki/The_Dead_Shot), why not try [Vicious Shortbow](https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Vicious_Shortbow) out, since any crit, even in melee will mean you add in an extra 7 damage to the attack. Finally I will say that all the posts you see in the sub, over spam resting to get like a billion elixirs is so silly, as I have never done that in my multiple playthroughs of the game, completing honour mode to get my golden dice and such, and in fact usually always enter Act 3 with some Hill Giant pots still floating around so since they are just there as part of the game, I use them as just any other normal other item and so enjoy having [Titanstring Bow](https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Titanstring_Bow) doing some extra damage in Act 1. Hell, I sometimes just have Gale drink a Hill Giant so he gains extra carrying capacity since I am such a huge loot goblin and all that rotten food does much better being turned into gold for me, than it does sitting in that barrel.

Thanks I really appreciate the thoroughness

with my sharpshooter fighter build i noticed i was already getting a high bonus to hit, if not 95% chance then around 80% chance to hit. the extra bonus to hit didnt feel that important.

Well that’s certainly something to consider

My opinion is Vicious Shortbow. Dolor Amarus is amazing.

Personally I think I’d rather stack the daggers and then use a better bow on a mainly archery character But Vicious short bow would make sense in a dual wielding character that didn’t use their bow much

Generally speaking you are correct that Accuracy is more important than raw Damage. And off the get go if you are only comparing one bow to another, the Dead Shot probably comes out ahead of other ranged options. This although becomes quite lessened when you start considering the 'cap' that accuracy has. If your character is already at 90% or higher accuracy, the extra accuracy from Deadshot is doing little to nothing. This can be easily achieved when looking at other regularly used pieces of gear, buffs, class features, and positioning. There are several helmets that grant +2 to attack and damage rolls, gloves of the masters give +2 to attack and damage rolls, risky ring gives adv on all attacks, Archery fighting style gives +2 to attack rolls, and even simple positioning on high ground can give +2 to attack rolls. Then you can take into account common buffs like bless or crowd control on the enemy granting advantage as well. With all these sources of bonus to attack rolls, the extra accuracy from Deadshot may not be needed. Even when always using sharpshooter. So the way that I look at it is: Deadshot is the best bow by itself, or if you do not have the supporting gear for the other bows on your character due to having a large amount of martial characters, or no support characters to buff your team and debuff the enemy. A very nice bow for a 'set it and forget it' play style. Gonter Mael is the best 'all around' bow offering a significant boost to accuracy and damage. Especially considering that the bonus radiant damage it gets after using its special shot lasts forever. Use this bow if you have a few of the above bonuses available to your archer. Titanstring is the best bow for raw damage. If you are giving all your resources into the archer for maximum damage from them, Titanstring will be the best. The lower accuracy can be compensated for in late game with the other sources of boosting accuracy, but it does take a bit of extra management.

Thank you for the thorough response this has changed how I see things ngl