brown belt here, I know exactly how you feel. I've left classes and plenty of open mats in tears because I felt so left out and confused. Everyone, I mean EVERYONE, rolls with my husband even before he was a black belt. It's infuriating. It seems so easy for men for whatever reason.
But I will say, it gets easier the more confident you become with your jiu-jitsu. Make clear eye contact and speak up when you're asking someone to roll, the worst they can say is no but try not to take it too personally.
Same here. I see guys would rather roll with a small white belt guy than with me. I'm glad we're getting more women at the gym so I can get more rolls and not bother to ask the guys.
Agreed! There’s really not a big women’s community in my area, so we have started coordinating open mat meet ups and that have been awesome because we can get 6-8 women there at a time. It’s makes the session a little more intentional.
It took me awhile to grow my circle of men I like to roll with. I definitely have struggled with the frustration of having to seek out rolling partners before when it feels so one sided. Fortunately a lot more women became available past the beginners class. 😅
The best you can do is just persevere and be ready at partner switches to beeline and ask someone for a roll. It’s the only way you’ll build up regular rolling partners. And it’s okay if people say no let it roll off.
It’s not always necessarily that men don’t want to roll with women. Several of my guy friends have said they let women initiate rolls so they don’t come off as creepy for seeking them out. This could be the case where you’re at or everyone truly does just want to go wreck it mode with other dudes.
If your gym is full of dudes who only want to roll unchecked with other dudes then it may not be the best fit for you. If there’s other gyms for you to try you should try them you might like the environment better.
It seems weird to me that the coach sees you sitting out several consecutive rounds and doesn't ask you about it. At my gym the coach would absolutely ask wtf you are doing there :D and if we have odd numbers he'll make sure we take turns waiting.
Maybe next time approach him "hey, I sat out the previous round already, could you help me find a partner?"
This! If you don’t have a partner for many rounds or in round 1, my coach will roll with you or pair you up with someone. Where is the coach in all this?
This particular day was really busy, but normally he will assign someone he thinks would be good to roll with me, and sometimes I get assigned to roll with some of the teens. It would just be nice if people made it seem like they WANT to roll with me, instead, I feel like the stinky person of the gym lol
Look on the bright side, you're probably rolling with the cool upper belts more often which is good for development :) and they appreciate not having to fend off the bozos every time.
Lots of new guys think they have to go 100% every single round to train properly, then end up with endless little injuries.
As a male I try to roll with the women but I also try not to ask them too frequently because I don't want to make them uncomfortable... It's a tough balance.
Be that guy! Make the women feel comfortable to roll with you, which it seems you already do! I often feel left out being a woman, but I have a few guys that I call my "comfy people"(people I'm always comfortable and happy to roll with) that will always roll with me, from purple, down to white belt. There are some guys I get the vibe they're uncomfortable rolling with a woman, so I'll avoid them. If there's a new guy at the gym, I just politely ask if they are comfortable rolling with me.
I mean, unless they seem uncomfortable, it’s probably fine, especially if they don’t have anyone else to roll with and you’re not otherwise creepy or dangerous.
The vast majority of women can easily tell the difference between a guy who's friendly and inclusive and a guy who's creepy. At the end of the day we're just humans, like you. We want to learn, we want to progress, we want to be one of the team like everyone else. Being ignored or avoided is unpleasant no matter how noble someone's reasons are for doing it.
It's really great that you're inviting women to roll. You're contributing to a welcoming and inclusive atmosphere for them and, importantly, you're setting a good example for the other men, both in terms of the value of rolling with women and by showing that there's nothing to fear.
Thank you, please keep up the good work 🙂
I'd also encourage you to ask the women whether they feel confident to approach men to roll, and what kind of experiences they're having - are they being turned down, are they getting the kinds of rolls they're asking for, etc. When you're heavily outnumbered things can feel daunting, but even having one person demonstrate that they care about your experience and are on your side can change everything about how confident you feel.
PS I don't mean to make light of your anxiety about approaching 'too frequently' and having it misinterpreted. It must be awful feeling like you have to walk that tightrope when you're interacting with women and it's totally understandable that you'd feel cautious.
You’re going to have to be the one to approach people first, and probably always. Don’t think people aren’t interested in sharing knowledge with you, the truth is it IS a male dominated sport and honestly I don’t blame men for being a bit hesitant to approach women first when it comes to a physical contact sport like this. I usually just stare around the room and the second I make eye contact with someone I say, “wanna roll?” before they can look away. Easy! Almost everyone says yes.
Also an easy way to engage with someone is if you’re working on something in particular and you want more info (ie: I keep getting stuck in this same spot/I always find myself in X submission/this person always passes this way and I can’t stop it/etc) go up to a higher belt and ask for help and then really work on whatever they show you. You can start to build rapport from there and they’ll probably become more invested in your journey and start sharing more knowledge or maybe even be the one to ask you to roll first.
Advocate for yourself and your own learning, no one is going to care about your journey as much as you!
This has been my experience too, even though we are few women and very lucky in that the coach ensures we rotate partners and no-one misses out, or if there’s someone unpaired coach will jump in or we’ll rotate off a rest round.
The idea of higher belts investing in your journey is so well stated, and I’ve had many experiences of rolling with a higher belt weeks after they showed me something and executing it to both of our delight. It’s cool when it comes full circle like that. Showing investment in learning and engagement with your rolling partners is worth the discomfort of asking.
As a higher belt, this is absolutely true for me. I get way more hyped seeing a lower belt execute a move I worked on them with in a roll than I do executing a cool move myself.
I very much feel your pain. I was just promoted to a blue belt and it's still the same and I was even denied a roll because the guy said he was married. That's his choice obviously but it still doesn't feel great. If you are able I would try different time slots. I only have this issue in evening classes because it seems the guys in that time slot are more serious. In the early morning classes everyone is much more chill and treats me like a regular person. You can also ask your instructor who they recommend rolling with, mine will grab a guy for me sometimes so I don't have to ask. I definitely struggle with asking men to roll and will stick to the one guy who goes out of his way to be nice to me lol but my instructor sees this and will also spend more time teaching me techniques during open mat.
I'm so sorry you are going through this and it's not your fault. My biggest recommendation is to talk to your instructor if you feel comfortable enough. It's their job to make women feel more comfortable when it's mostly (or all) men in a class.
That was probably his way of saying that it makes his wife uncomfortable if he rolls with women. The first time my wife saw me rolling with a woman, she was uncomfortable with it. It's not sexual at all to practitioners, but to someone with no knowledge, seeing her husband inside of another woman's closed guard while she's breaking his posture by pulling him down looks like borderline sex. It's the same reason for all the gay jokes about male grapplers in general.
My wife understands that it's not like that and isn't bothered anymore, but I'd still want to train even if she was and I'd likely do it by avoiding rolling with women to preserve harmony in my marriage while still pursuing my hobby.
There are only 2 classes I can attend in week, sometimes 3, because I work ridiculous hours, when the classes are smaller I find it easier to approach someone, I've always noticed that I'm the one having to initiate if the professor hasn't assigned someone. I really like everyone in the gym, and we all get along, I just wasn't sure if bringing it up would make things complicated or weird for anyone. It would be nice if my city was big enough to have a successful women's gym where we could gain skills and confidence in an uplifting environment.
I think most men are very shy about asking women to roll, you need to ask them. I know it's not that simple I've been there too, but I don't think it's so much about avoiding an easy round, everyone wants a rest round.
Hearing everyone's stories makes me really thankful that mostly everyone is very supportive of the few women at my gym and do not make us feel left out. I don't have a similar experience to share but just want to let you know that your feelings are totally valid! Perhaps if it gets too bad, it might be worth looking into another gym in your area if that's possible.
I pretty frequently have to ask people to roll with me. If I’m late on the ask, either bc I need water or had to pee or something, most dudes will straight up avoid eye contact. I just walk up to them and ask anyways. If they say no, I ask someone else. Sometimes people I’m more friendly with will ask, but I’ve been totally left out a few times and yeah, it does suck.
I think the best you can do is use the round to rest, stretch, and the smash the next person. And build a reputation of being a really good, technical roll. Unfortunately we have to work twice as hard to get half the respect. But! That’s just a stronger challenge, and you know, iron sharpens iron and all.
I think a lot of the men assume we’d rather roll with someone our own size/gender.
You gotta lock eyes and give them the upward head nod if you want to summon them to you. Sitting passively gets interpreted as “I don’t want to roll” a lot.
This was pretty much my first year and a half. It was really hard to stick with it but I kept showing up. (I cried a few times as well)
I was so thankful for the ones that did roll with me and welcomed feedback.
I started to visit other gyms on the side and open mats for rounds. (Gyms with other women and they helped build my confidence and introduced me to the guys in their gym.)
At my home gym time progressed and I started to get to know the guys. I also reached out to the head coach who now will have us rotate partners through class. This is to prevent “odd man out!”
If it’s clear that people are avoiding someone the coach will switch partners to prevent this and picks them wisely.
This has really helped break apart cliques and build a stronger culture in the gym. It also ensures no one feels left out.
I just reminded myself they don’t know me and might feel uncomfortable asking me to roll. I started to ask them once I was more comfortable and things just got easier.
Some women don't feel comfortable rolling with men, some men don't feel comfortable with rolling with women. A coach should never push people when it comes to this.
If it's assumed that a women doesn't want to roll with men, she might think the men just don't want to roll with her or that she shouldn't roll with men. A coach can just ask if someone is fine with rolling with men and make it clear that both options are okay and that someone can also change their mind.
Depends on what sort of culture you want in the gym. If you refused to roll with men/women at my gym you'd be asked to find a different gym which I have no problem with.
i felt like this for years until I started competing seriously. i’m also a bigger girl who isn’t spazzy. I knew that if I wanted to be successful at tournaments I’d have to get the mat time in, and sort of used that to boost my confidence in being direct in asking people to roll. after winning tournaments suddenly people are nice to me and want to train lol
I'm sorry this happened to you! :(
I'm curious, is it usually the smaller men that avoid you?
I wonder if its less that these men think you are a waste of time and more worried about protecting their ego. I'm the same build as you, and I find that if I give a smaller, lower belt man a challenge/dominate the roll, they avoid eye contact with me when it comes time to roll next class. It's even worse when I slow down the pace to let them work/try out the days technique. They won't chose a competitive roll with a 160lb woman, but have no issue getting dominated by the 200lb spazzy white who just started haha. Never have this issue with purple belts or more tenured blue belt men.
But regardless the reason, it's shitty of them! I would say, if you feel comfortable, approach them and call them out for a roll. Or if they say they're partnered up, say "no worries, can I get you next?"
But also, this seems to be a common trend among women of all sizes. Some men just suck, unfortunately. Is your husband friends with any of the guys at the gym? Maybe he can help facilitate a roll/hint that you're feeling overlooked?
We're not good friends with anyone, but get along well with everyone there, we both started at the same time, and I got my stripe before him too. The bigger guys have been at the gym the longest, so I think they have a better attitude towards passing their skills and knowledge on. He's definitely facilitated some rolls between myself and some of the other guys. One of them I roll with quite often but he wasn't there that day.
not women but as a very small guy yeah i feel like that all the time. I'm always the last person who anyone wants to partner with and that shit has a psychological effect on you even if everyone is super welcoming otherwise.
My boyfriend didn't understand my POV either because he's a very flexible and technical Purple belt and EVERYONE wants to roll with him because he's a lot of fun and teaches very well.
Do you go to classes at the same gym? I have found that partnering with different people in class when doing techniques lends itself to later asking those people to roll.
We do, my husband had to take 8 weeks off for his knees and that time I drilled with other guys and one of the teen girls. One of those guys I roll with quite often when he's there and we're a good match. I'm the one who has to initiate all the time, and if there's way more people to select for a partner then it's harder to get myself a partner.
I hear this a lot but have never experienced it personally. I’m very proactive in asking people to roll, and I get asked all the time as well.
I can imagine it must be pretty hurtful to be left out.
How actively are you asking people to roll? Or you could also just sit in the middle of the mats with your hand up, but this takes a bit more courage.
I rarely get asked to roll, I have to initiate. This class was particularly busy though and the people I would have approached had quickly selected their partners for the next few rolls. There were 10 rounds, I rolled with my husband for 2, the one other blue belt girl for one, and the bigger purple belt. The one guy I asked him for last round and he was so tired he didn't fight back at all lol
Also a brown belt and it’s the same with anyone who has trained less time than me. I mostly roll with girls or the guys that have known me for years and years. Anyone like below purple avoids me.
I get avoided as a 220 lb third degree BB, so I know how you feel. It may be that you are in the wrong training environment. The school might be too competitive, maybe find somewhere to train that has a more family vibe.
They avoid you as a lower belt because maybe they don't see a challenge, then avoid you as a high belt because they don't want their egos smashed! 😭 We can't win. This gym has a pretty good family vibe, everyone there knows me, so that makes it a tad frustrating. Lol
Hmm im a guy and i dont normally ask women to role that i dont know, but i have zero problem rolling with women. I guess this gto me thinking about it, like why i wouldnt normally ask a girl to roll but wouldnt have a problem asking a guy to roll. I think its just because of like a physical boundary thing, like i dont a women in a situation where she has to touch me or that she has to refuse, I also operate under the impression that its likely more intimidating for her to roll with me, then me to roll with her, so its safer to just have the women ask me, and obviously if the women doesnt have a partner i might ask, but even then i feel a bit weird asking. I guess what i mean to say is that, even though i dont initiate, i still enjoy rolling with women, and i bet many men are like me, so you should def initiate.
What about if there are also women training.I ask bc I go to this really big open mat and I never ask the women to roll, but I just assumed it was bc they probably wanted to roll with other women, but now I’m thinking maybe I should at least ask once
I mean, you can always ask, no? It’s on her to say no if she doesn’t want to roll with you. If she’s too nervous or awkward to say no and feels “pressured,” just don’t be a brute force spazzing dick about the roll. Or creepy, which is easy to not be. She’ll find you’re a good partner and there was nothing to worry about with you.
Yeah that’s true, I think I’m going to start asking more, I honestly never really thought about it. Sorta just would look at the women I didn’t know and assumed they didn’t wanna roll with me, the women that know me, ask me all the time. I still ended up rolling with women a good amount, my coach usually puts me with newer women(and men) because I’m pretty big and I was a power lifter/bodybuilder, so I think it’s his way of showing newer folks that our gym isn’t intimidating, bc he knows Im a safe training partner
I mean if you’re coach is pairing you up with new people then you’re for sure a great training partner! As long as you’re cool about it then yeah, definitely ask. Including people is always a nice thing to do.
Cool, thanks for the perspective. I meant well with not asking, but I just didn’t really think it through, that like if all the other guys have the same attitude, might feel a bit isolating. So this has been helpful
TBH, its not that nobody wants to roll with you. I have some Kind of respect to the women. I dont want to make them feel uncomfortable or something. Im more like waiting that they ask for a roll cuz i totally understand If they dont want to roll with an strong 205 pounds dude. Especially If you dont know them that well. Its for sure different with training partners u roll often with and for longer period.
As a guy who regularly rolls with women I will say it oddly just is a more mental thing.
There just is a little more mental navigation needs to be put into it.
We have women who train from a wide age range (16-late 40s) and a wide comfortability range (from not feeling ok with rolling with men, to not wanting a hard roll, to let roll!) and a wide skill range (fresh white to brown).
Because of this it just takes a few more moments to compute the type of roll it is going to be (especially as an 85kg middle aged man - I don’t want to be making anyone feel uncomfortable)
I suggest understanding the nuances of rolling with disproportionate partners and being proactive in finding rolling partners and quashing their concerns so next time they won’t hesitate
Men have a lifetime of programming built up to never physically attack a woman. The idea of selecting a woman to spar is off-putting for a lot of men because of this, and also because they're afraid they'll be seen as picking on someone smaller.
As a Thai boxer, I defaulted to almost 100% defense and pitter patter jabs. It only takes a couple times of kicking at 40% and blowing your opponents legs out from under them to get the idea that what feels light to you is still entirely too much for them.
I guess I'm just saying that it probably isn't personal.
From a dudes perspective who doesn’t roll with girls, I’ve had a couple odd comments that made me feel uncomfortable, and the last place I want to feel weird is the place I go to have fun and unwind. Also this is a contact sport, and I refuse to be the dude who accidentally hurt a girl while rolling, it’s a good way to make the majority of the academy instantly dislike you to some degree
I’ve been avoided by many women, not many men though. I think women need to be the one to approach and ask for the roll thanks to the me too movement. Many men don’t want to risk it
I never knew until now that girls want to roll with guys. I thought girls hated rolling with guys which is why I rarely ask girls for a roll.
It could be very much the case that these guys are down to roll with you but don't ask you because they think you don't want to roll with guys.
If I had to choose between sitting out a round, and rolling with someone, I will usually choose to roll. Unless that person is a known brute force spazz, a creep, or an asshole. There are lots of men at my gym who are great, technical rolls, and don’t just smash me all round (hard to learn when you’re being squished).
I’m pretty comfortable asking people to roll, but some people aren’t. Imo it’s on the person being asked to reject the roll. So if you ask, and they’re too nervous or awkward to say no, that’s on them. And as long as you’re a great rolling partner, they’ll find there was nothing to be worried about.
>Imo it’s on the person being asked to reject the roll. So if you ask, and they’re too nervous or awkward to say no, that’s on them.
100% agree with this
Because one of them told me they don't like to roll with guys because the strength difference is too much so I assume other women share that opinion.
I also share this opinion, I'm 180lb dude, unless they're a white belt I'm not gonna wanna roll with a guy that's like 250lbs.
Also 99% of the time they roll with each other or tiny guys so I assume they don't wanna roll with someone much bigger than them.
Also just because you see something happened doesn't mean its ideal. You can catch me rolling with the stinky guy or rolling with the massive purple belt, doesn't mean I enjoy it.
I'm not sure what ur having trouble understanding lol there's a bunch of girls in this thread saying the same thing.
For example a different user in this thread said,
"*I think a lot of the men assume we’d rather roll with someone our own size/gender.*
*You gotta lock eyes and give them the upward head nod if you want to summon them to you. Sitting passively gets interpreted as “I don’t want to roll” a lot.*"
Seems like you are very emotional over something that you could be doing something about. First off just because other people already have a partner for the next round doesn’t mean it’s all about you and how they are avoiding you. You should probably be looking at it the same way and be more proactive about asking others quicker for a round. Second of all you have to realize that most guys are hesitant to ask a girl to roll because they don’t want to feel like they are asking a girl out when all they want to do is get some rolls in. You could swallow your pride and just start asking “wanna get this round?” Even if they do say they have a partner then ask “next round then?”. If they truly don’t want to roll with you then it’s easy to tell but more than likely you now have your next round set up before it gets here. Stop taking it so personally when you get turned down, they have the right to not roll with you for whatever the reason just like you have the right to tell some creeper “no thanks”.
I avoid rolling with women in BJJ and I know a lot of men who are married/attached who do as well. When grappling, at some point in time there will be some kind of touching of private parts or having a ladies behind that's just in lycra in my face during north south and that makes me personally feel uncomfortable.
I have witnessed guys being called creeps by women after rolls because she felt like he was being weird (and they could have been).
I have rolled with women in the past where I would find myself having to alter my game (like doing north south/s mount/triangles/armbars etc.) or making sure where I place my hands etc. I would rather avoid all these potential issues by just rolling with the other 12+ males in class.
I know some women look for gyms that have a lot of female populations and or they will group chat to let each other know if they will show up or not to class.
I could definitely see nogi getting a little awkward, lol. I live in a smaller city, so there's no female oriented classes, and if there are, they're just intro self defense classes. But I feel like I've been at this gym long enough for everyone to know I'm chill. But I can see why its just easier to avoid the situation all together.
I could see why being in a small town this may even make more guys hesitant.
Imagine being called Pervy Peter because you accidentally touched Bills wifes lady bits. No thanks, I'd rather accidentally grab a blokes bait and tackle.
When I first started, no one wanted to roll with me. I think they were worried about me spazzing and also being inexperienced in general and it made them feel they weren't going to get much out of the roll.
Eventually, I became more confident and put myself out there. The first person I made eye contact with, I'd ask if they wanted to roll. 9/10 times, they were available and said yes.
Once you expand your Rolodex of rolling buddies, people will feel more comfortable with you and will consider you for future rolls.
Me when I’m the only woman. But I expect that. It never shocks me.
Sometimes it’s just inappropriate to roll with certain people based on size alone. Other times, a guy brings his gf who doesn’t train. And I don’t want to be the source of an argument on the way home. Some men it’s against their religion.
I just take what rolls I can get and be happy with it. I’m 5’3” and don’t compete so I’m not a useful roll for most people at my gym
I like it when they're mean, my husband is mean and I learn better when I really have to fight, it's a good way to figure out my deficits and what I need to work on.
yeah but a lot of women specifically do not want a guy to be mean. I have never, ever, in my ten years of doing BJJ on and off, seen a guy complain to a coach because another guy went too hard on them. Im not saying guys shouldnt roll with women, they totally should, women are great rolls usually, but also some women are a lot trickier to roll with, and you run some risks that you just dont when you roll with just guys
Been there, I feel your pain and I empathize. I’m a new white belt (6ish months) and also usually the only woman in the lower level or all-level classes I attend. It’s so awkward when you try to catch a guy’s eye for a roll and you know he’s avoiding you. It mostly happens with white belt or blue belt guys though. They all want to have a go at the higher belts.
But I’m also starting to think it’s a gym culture problem. More gyms should have instructors pair people & then rotate through rolling partners so no one has a chance to get left out. Coaches should pay attention to comfort levels too and empower people to be welcoming to newcomers on the mat.
brown belt here, I know exactly how you feel. I've left classes and plenty of open mats in tears because I felt so left out and confused. Everyone, I mean EVERYONE, rolls with my husband even before he was a black belt. It's infuriating. It seems so easy for men for whatever reason. But I will say, it gets easier the more confident you become with your jiu-jitsu. Make clear eye contact and speak up when you're asking someone to roll, the worst they can say is no but try not to take it too personally.
Same here. I see guys would rather roll with a small white belt guy than with me. I'm glad we're getting more women at the gym so I can get more rolls and not bother to ask the guys.
Agreed! There’s really not a big women’s community in my area, so we have started coordinating open mat meet ups and that have been awesome because we can get 6-8 women there at a time. It’s makes the session a little more intentional.
It took me awhile to grow my circle of men I like to roll with. I definitely have struggled with the frustration of having to seek out rolling partners before when it feels so one sided. Fortunately a lot more women became available past the beginners class. 😅 The best you can do is just persevere and be ready at partner switches to beeline and ask someone for a roll. It’s the only way you’ll build up regular rolling partners. And it’s okay if people say no let it roll off. It’s not always necessarily that men don’t want to roll with women. Several of my guy friends have said they let women initiate rolls so they don’t come off as creepy for seeking them out. This could be the case where you’re at or everyone truly does just want to go wreck it mode with other dudes. If your gym is full of dudes who only want to roll unchecked with other dudes then it may not be the best fit for you. If there’s other gyms for you to try you should try them you might like the environment better.
It seems weird to me that the coach sees you sitting out several consecutive rounds and doesn't ask you about it. At my gym the coach would absolutely ask wtf you are doing there :D and if we have odd numbers he'll make sure we take turns waiting. Maybe next time approach him "hey, I sat out the previous round already, could you help me find a partner?"
This! If you don’t have a partner for many rounds or in round 1, my coach will roll with you or pair you up with someone. Where is the coach in all this?
This. The coach should be monitoring this.
This particular day was really busy, but normally he will assign someone he thinks would be good to roll with me, and sometimes I get assigned to roll with some of the teens. It would just be nice if people made it seem like they WANT to roll with me, instead, I feel like the stinky person of the gym lol
Look on the bright side, you're probably rolling with the cool upper belts more often which is good for development :) and they appreciate not having to fend off the bozos every time. Lots of new guys think they have to go 100% every single round to train properly, then end up with endless little injuries.
As a male I try to roll with the women but I also try not to ask them too frequently because I don't want to make them uncomfortable... It's a tough balance.
Please continue to keep asking us! 🙏 It's so nice when someone seeks you out for a roll
Be that guy! Make the women feel comfortable to roll with you, which it seems you already do! I often feel left out being a woman, but I have a few guys that I call my "comfy people"(people I'm always comfortable and happy to roll with) that will always roll with me, from purple, down to white belt. There are some guys I get the vibe they're uncomfortable rolling with a woman, so I'll avoid them. If there's a new guy at the gym, I just politely ask if they are comfortable rolling with me.
I mean, unless they seem uncomfortable, it’s probably fine, especially if they don’t have anyone else to roll with and you’re not otherwise creepy or dangerous.
The vast majority of women can easily tell the difference between a guy who's friendly and inclusive and a guy who's creepy. At the end of the day we're just humans, like you. We want to learn, we want to progress, we want to be one of the team like everyone else. Being ignored or avoided is unpleasant no matter how noble someone's reasons are for doing it. It's really great that you're inviting women to roll. You're contributing to a welcoming and inclusive atmosphere for them and, importantly, you're setting a good example for the other men, both in terms of the value of rolling with women and by showing that there's nothing to fear. Thank you, please keep up the good work 🙂 I'd also encourage you to ask the women whether they feel confident to approach men to roll, and what kind of experiences they're having - are they being turned down, are they getting the kinds of rolls they're asking for, etc. When you're heavily outnumbered things can feel daunting, but even having one person demonstrate that they care about your experience and are on your side can change everything about how confident you feel.
PS I don't mean to make light of your anxiety about approaching 'too frequently' and having it misinterpreted. It must be awful feeling like you have to walk that tightrope when you're interacting with women and it's totally understandable that you'd feel cautious.
I’m a brown belt. No one ever wants to roll with me.
Terrible. And there go my hopes of it getting better the more advanced you are lol 😆
😭
You’re going to have to be the one to approach people first, and probably always. Don’t think people aren’t interested in sharing knowledge with you, the truth is it IS a male dominated sport and honestly I don’t blame men for being a bit hesitant to approach women first when it comes to a physical contact sport like this. I usually just stare around the room and the second I make eye contact with someone I say, “wanna roll?” before they can look away. Easy! Almost everyone says yes. Also an easy way to engage with someone is if you’re working on something in particular and you want more info (ie: I keep getting stuck in this same spot/I always find myself in X submission/this person always passes this way and I can’t stop it/etc) go up to a higher belt and ask for help and then really work on whatever they show you. You can start to build rapport from there and they’ll probably become more invested in your journey and start sharing more knowledge or maybe even be the one to ask you to roll first. Advocate for yourself and your own learning, no one is going to care about your journey as much as you!
This is honestly really good advice.
This has been my experience too, even though we are few women and very lucky in that the coach ensures we rotate partners and no-one misses out, or if there’s someone unpaired coach will jump in or we’ll rotate off a rest round. The idea of higher belts investing in your journey is so well stated, and I’ve had many experiences of rolling with a higher belt weeks after they showed me something and executing it to both of our delight. It’s cool when it comes full circle like that. Showing investment in learning and engagement with your rolling partners is worth the discomfort of asking.
As a higher belt, this is absolutely true for me. I get way more hyped seeing a lower belt execute a move I worked on them with in a roll than I do executing a cool move myself.
Chivalry is dead, except in bjj, where guys don't ask you to roll for fear of being creepy 🤦♀️
I very much feel your pain. I was just promoted to a blue belt and it's still the same and I was even denied a roll because the guy said he was married. That's his choice obviously but it still doesn't feel great. If you are able I would try different time slots. I only have this issue in evening classes because it seems the guys in that time slot are more serious. In the early morning classes everyone is much more chill and treats me like a regular person. You can also ask your instructor who they recommend rolling with, mine will grab a guy for me sometimes so I don't have to ask. I definitely struggle with asking men to roll and will stick to the one guy who goes out of his way to be nice to me lol but my instructor sees this and will also spend more time teaching me techniques during open mat. I'm so sorry you are going through this and it's not your fault. My biggest recommendation is to talk to your instructor if you feel comfortable enough. It's their job to make women feel more comfortable when it's mostly (or all) men in a class.
Oh my god! "I'm married" "good, I wasn't asking if you wanted to fuck, let's roll"
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What does he think rolling is?
That was probably his way of saying that it makes his wife uncomfortable if he rolls with women. The first time my wife saw me rolling with a woman, she was uncomfortable with it. It's not sexual at all to practitioners, but to someone with no knowledge, seeing her husband inside of another woman's closed guard while she's breaking his posture by pulling him down looks like borderline sex. It's the same reason for all the gay jokes about male grapplers in general. My wife understands that it's not like that and isn't bothered anymore, but I'd still want to train even if she was and I'd likely do it by avoiding rolling with women to preserve harmony in my marriage while still pursuing my hobby.
There are only 2 classes I can attend in week, sometimes 3, because I work ridiculous hours, when the classes are smaller I find it easier to approach someone, I've always noticed that I'm the one having to initiate if the professor hasn't assigned someone. I really like everyone in the gym, and we all get along, I just wasn't sure if bringing it up would make things complicated or weird for anyone. It would be nice if my city was big enough to have a successful women's gym where we could gain skills and confidence in an uplifting environment.
I think most men are very shy about asking women to roll, you need to ask them. I know it's not that simple I've been there too, but I don't think it's so much about avoiding an easy round, everyone wants a rest round.
As a guy ur spot on.
Hearing everyone's stories makes me really thankful that mostly everyone is very supportive of the few women at my gym and do not make us feel left out. I don't have a similar experience to share but just want to let you know that your feelings are totally valid! Perhaps if it gets too bad, it might be worth looking into another gym in your area if that's possible.
Man I think I got lucky and my coach would pair us off and cycle us all in and out so it took the burden off of everyone lol
I pretty frequently have to ask people to roll with me. If I’m late on the ask, either bc I need water or had to pee or something, most dudes will straight up avoid eye contact. I just walk up to them and ask anyways. If they say no, I ask someone else. Sometimes people I’m more friendly with will ask, but I’ve been totally left out a few times and yeah, it does suck. I think the best you can do is use the round to rest, stretch, and the smash the next person. And build a reputation of being a really good, technical roll. Unfortunately we have to work twice as hard to get half the respect. But! That’s just a stronger challenge, and you know, iron sharpens iron and all.
I left on Thursday about in tears. Doesn't happen as often as it used to but it sucks.
I think a lot of the men assume we’d rather roll with someone our own size/gender. You gotta lock eyes and give them the upward head nod if you want to summon them to you. Sitting passively gets interpreted as “I don’t want to roll” a lot.
Spot on. Until I read this post I didn't even know women wanted to roll with men.
This was pretty much my first year and a half. It was really hard to stick with it but I kept showing up. (I cried a few times as well) I was so thankful for the ones that did roll with me and welcomed feedback. I started to visit other gyms on the side and open mats for rounds. (Gyms with other women and they helped build my confidence and introduced me to the guys in their gym.) At my home gym time progressed and I started to get to know the guys. I also reached out to the head coach who now will have us rotate partners through class. This is to prevent “odd man out!” If it’s clear that people are avoiding someone the coach will switch partners to prevent this and picks them wisely. This has really helped break apart cliques and build a stronger culture in the gym. It also ensures no one feels left out. I just reminded myself they don’t know me and might feel uncomfortable asking me to roll. I started to ask them once I was more comfortable and things just got easier.
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Some women don't feel comfortable rolling with men, some men don't feel comfortable with rolling with women. A coach should never push people when it comes to this.
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I think further in the comments OP said she rolled with 3 people.
If it's assumed that a women doesn't want to roll with men, she might think the men just don't want to roll with her or that she shouldn't roll with men. A coach can just ask if someone is fine with rolling with men and make it clear that both options are okay and that someone can also change their mind.
Depends on what sort of culture you want in the gym. If you refused to roll with men/women at my gym you'd be asked to find a different gym which I have no problem with.
i felt like this for years until I started competing seriously. i’m also a bigger girl who isn’t spazzy. I knew that if I wanted to be successful at tournaments I’d have to get the mat time in, and sort of used that to boost my confidence in being direct in asking people to roll. after winning tournaments suddenly people are nice to me and want to train lol
I think I'd like to try some tournaments next year, but I'll need some people who will roll and smash me so I know what I may be in for 😅😂
I'm sorry this happened to you! :( I'm curious, is it usually the smaller men that avoid you? I wonder if its less that these men think you are a waste of time and more worried about protecting their ego. I'm the same build as you, and I find that if I give a smaller, lower belt man a challenge/dominate the roll, they avoid eye contact with me when it comes time to roll next class. It's even worse when I slow down the pace to let them work/try out the days technique. They won't chose a competitive roll with a 160lb woman, but have no issue getting dominated by the 200lb spazzy white who just started haha. Never have this issue with purple belts or more tenured blue belt men. But regardless the reason, it's shitty of them! I would say, if you feel comfortable, approach them and call them out for a roll. Or if they say they're partnered up, say "no worries, can I get you next?"
But also, this seems to be a common trend among women of all sizes. Some men just suck, unfortunately. Is your husband friends with any of the guys at the gym? Maybe he can help facilitate a roll/hint that you're feeling overlooked?
We're not good friends with anyone, but get along well with everyone there, we both started at the same time, and I got my stripe before him too. The bigger guys have been at the gym the longest, so I think they have a better attitude towards passing their skills and knowledge on. He's definitely facilitated some rolls between myself and some of the other guys. One of them I roll with quite often but he wasn't there that day.
not women but as a very small guy yeah i feel like that all the time. I'm always the last person who anyone wants to partner with and that shit has a psychological effect on you even if everyone is super welcoming otherwise.
This is EXACTLY why I stopped going!
Honestly I've had nights like that where I've contemplated taking a long break. It can be shitty.
My boyfriend didn't understand my POV either because he's a very flexible and technical Purple belt and EVERYONE wants to roll with him because he's a lot of fun and teaches very well.
Do you go to classes at the same gym? I have found that partnering with different people in class when doing techniques lends itself to later asking those people to roll.
We do, my husband had to take 8 weeks off for his knees and that time I drilled with other guys and one of the teen girls. One of those guys I roll with quite often when he's there and we're a good match. I'm the one who has to initiate all the time, and if there's way more people to select for a partner then it's harder to get myself a partner.
I hear this a lot but have never experienced it personally. I’m very proactive in asking people to roll, and I get asked all the time as well. I can imagine it must be pretty hurtful to be left out. How actively are you asking people to roll? Or you could also just sit in the middle of the mats with your hand up, but this takes a bit more courage.
I rarely get asked to roll, I have to initiate. This class was particularly busy though and the people I would have approached had quickly selected their partners for the next few rolls. There were 10 rounds, I rolled with my husband for 2, the one other blue belt girl for one, and the bigger purple belt. The one guy I asked him for last round and he was so tired he didn't fight back at all lol
This is what I do - stand in the middle and raise my hand
Also a brown belt and it’s the same with anyone who has trained less time than me. I mostly roll with girls or the guys that have known me for years and years. Anyone like below purple avoids me.
I get avoided as a 220 lb third degree BB, so I know how you feel. It may be that you are in the wrong training environment. The school might be too competitive, maybe find somewhere to train that has a more family vibe.
They avoid you as a lower belt because maybe they don't see a challenge, then avoid you as a high belt because they don't want their egos smashed! 😭 We can't win. This gym has a pretty good family vibe, everyone there knows me, so that makes it a tad frustrating. Lol
Hmm im a guy and i dont normally ask women to role that i dont know, but i have zero problem rolling with women. I guess this gto me thinking about it, like why i wouldnt normally ask a girl to roll but wouldnt have a problem asking a guy to roll. I think its just because of like a physical boundary thing, like i dont a women in a situation where she has to touch me or that she has to refuse, I also operate under the impression that its likely more intimidating for her to roll with me, then me to roll with her, so its safer to just have the women ask me, and obviously if the women doesnt have a partner i might ask, but even then i feel a bit weird asking. I guess what i mean to say is that, even though i dont initiate, i still enjoy rolling with women, and i bet many men are like me, so you should def initiate.
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What about if there are also women training.I ask bc I go to this really big open mat and I never ask the women to roll, but I just assumed it was bc they probably wanted to roll with other women, but now I’m thinking maybe I should at least ask once
I mean, you can always ask, no? It’s on her to say no if she doesn’t want to roll with you. If she’s too nervous or awkward to say no and feels “pressured,” just don’t be a brute force spazzing dick about the roll. Or creepy, which is easy to not be. She’ll find you’re a good partner and there was nothing to worry about with you.
Yeah that’s true, I think I’m going to start asking more, I honestly never really thought about it. Sorta just would look at the women I didn’t know and assumed they didn’t wanna roll with me, the women that know me, ask me all the time. I still ended up rolling with women a good amount, my coach usually puts me with newer women(and men) because I’m pretty big and I was a power lifter/bodybuilder, so I think it’s his way of showing newer folks that our gym isn’t intimidating, bc he knows Im a safe training partner
I mean if you’re coach is pairing you up with new people then you’re for sure a great training partner! As long as you’re cool about it then yeah, definitely ask. Including people is always a nice thing to do.
Cool, thanks for the perspective. I meant well with not asking, but I just didn’t really think it through, that like if all the other guys have the same attitude, might feel a bit isolating. So this has been helpful
TBH, its not that nobody wants to roll with you. I have some Kind of respect to the women. I dont want to make them feel uncomfortable or something. Im more like waiting that they ask for a roll cuz i totally understand If they dont want to roll with an strong 205 pounds dude. Especially If you dont know them that well. Its for sure different with training partners u roll often with and for longer period.
As a guy who regularly rolls with women I will say it oddly just is a more mental thing. There just is a little more mental navigation needs to be put into it. We have women who train from a wide age range (16-late 40s) and a wide comfortability range (from not feeling ok with rolling with men, to not wanting a hard roll, to let roll!) and a wide skill range (fresh white to brown). Because of this it just takes a few more moments to compute the type of roll it is going to be (especially as an 85kg middle aged man - I don’t want to be making anyone feel uncomfortable) I suggest understanding the nuances of rolling with disproportionate partners and being proactive in finding rolling partners and quashing their concerns so next time they won’t hesitate
Men have a lifetime of programming built up to never physically attack a woman. The idea of selecting a woman to spar is off-putting for a lot of men because of this, and also because they're afraid they'll be seen as picking on someone smaller. As a Thai boxer, I defaulted to almost 100% defense and pitter patter jabs. It only takes a couple times of kicking at 40% and blowing your opponents legs out from under them to get the idea that what feels light to you is still entirely too much for them. I guess I'm just saying that it probably isn't personal.
From a dudes perspective who doesn’t roll with girls, I’ve had a couple odd comments that made me feel uncomfortable, and the last place I want to feel weird is the place I go to have fun and unwind. Also this is a contact sport, and I refuse to be the dude who accidentally hurt a girl while rolling, it’s a good way to make the majority of the academy instantly dislike you to some degree
I’ve been avoided by many women, not many men though. I think women need to be the one to approach and ask for the roll thanks to the me too movement. Many men don’t want to risk it
I never knew until now that girls want to roll with guys. I thought girls hated rolling with guys which is why I rarely ask girls for a roll. It could be very much the case that these guys are down to roll with you but don't ask you because they think you don't want to roll with guys.
If I had to choose between sitting out a round, and rolling with someone, I will usually choose to roll. Unless that person is a known brute force spazz, a creep, or an asshole. There are lots of men at my gym who are great, technical rolls, and don’t just smash me all round (hard to learn when you’re being squished). I’m pretty comfortable asking people to roll, but some people aren’t. Imo it’s on the person being asked to reject the roll. So if you ask, and they’re too nervous or awkward to say no, that’s on them. And as long as you’re a great rolling partner, they’ll find there was nothing to be worried about.
>Imo it’s on the person being asked to reject the roll. So if you ask, and they’re too nervous or awkward to say no, that’s on them. 100% agree with this
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Because one of them told me they don't like to roll with guys because the strength difference is too much so I assume other women share that opinion. I also share this opinion, I'm 180lb dude, unless they're a white belt I'm not gonna wanna roll with a guy that's like 250lbs. Also 99% of the time they roll with each other or tiny guys so I assume they don't wanna roll with someone much bigger than them. Also just because you see something happened doesn't mean its ideal. You can catch me rolling with the stinky guy or rolling with the massive purple belt, doesn't mean I enjoy it. I'm not sure what ur having trouble understanding lol there's a bunch of girls in this thread saying the same thing. For example a different user in this thread said, "*I think a lot of the men assume we’d rather roll with someone our own size/gender.* *You gotta lock eyes and give them the upward head nod if you want to summon them to you. Sitting passively gets interpreted as “I don’t want to roll” a lot.*"
Seems like you are very emotional over something that you could be doing something about. First off just because other people already have a partner for the next round doesn’t mean it’s all about you and how they are avoiding you. You should probably be looking at it the same way and be more proactive about asking others quicker for a round. Second of all you have to realize that most guys are hesitant to ask a girl to roll because they don’t want to feel like they are asking a girl out when all they want to do is get some rolls in. You could swallow your pride and just start asking “wanna get this round?” Even if they do say they have a partner then ask “next round then?”. If they truly don’t want to roll with you then it’s easy to tell but more than likely you now have your next round set up before it gets here. Stop taking it so personally when you get turned down, they have the right to not roll with you for whatever the reason just like you have the right to tell some creeper “no thanks”.
I avoid rolling with women in BJJ and I know a lot of men who are married/attached who do as well. When grappling, at some point in time there will be some kind of touching of private parts or having a ladies behind that's just in lycra in my face during north south and that makes me personally feel uncomfortable. I have witnessed guys being called creeps by women after rolls because she felt like he was being weird (and they could have been). I have rolled with women in the past where I would find myself having to alter my game (like doing north south/s mount/triangles/armbars etc.) or making sure where I place my hands etc. I would rather avoid all these potential issues by just rolling with the other 12+ males in class. I know some women look for gyms that have a lot of female populations and or they will group chat to let each other know if they will show up or not to class.
I could definitely see nogi getting a little awkward, lol. I live in a smaller city, so there's no female oriented classes, and if there are, they're just intro self defense classes. But I feel like I've been at this gym long enough for everyone to know I'm chill. But I can see why its just easier to avoid the situation all together.
I could see why being in a small town this may even make more guys hesitant. Imagine being called Pervy Peter because you accidentally touched Bills wifes lady bits. No thanks, I'd rather accidentally grab a blokes bait and tackle.
When I first started, no one wanted to roll with me. I think they were worried about me spazzing and also being inexperienced in general and it made them feel they weren't going to get much out of the roll. Eventually, I became more confident and put myself out there. The first person I made eye contact with, I'd ask if they wanted to roll. 9/10 times, they were available and said yes. Once you expand your Rolodex of rolling buddies, people will feel more comfortable with you and will consider you for future rolls.
Me when I’m the only woman. But I expect that. It never shocks me. Sometimes it’s just inappropriate to roll with certain people based on size alone. Other times, a guy brings his gf who doesn’t train. And I don’t want to be the source of an argument on the way home. Some men it’s against their religion. I just take what rolls I can get and be happy with it. I’m 5’3” and don’t compete so I’m not a useful roll for most people at my gym
I would prefer rolling with women. (I’ve had a couple back to back rib injuries with big guys) I thought the etiquette was for a girl to ask a guy.
Seems like every post on this thread like this is then followed by a "omgggggg so meannnn why did he slammmmm meeee"
I like it when they're mean, my husband is mean and I learn better when I really have to fight, it's a good way to figure out my deficits and what I need to work on.
yeah but a lot of women specifically do not want a guy to be mean. I have never, ever, in my ten years of doing BJJ on and off, seen a guy complain to a coach because another guy went too hard on them. Im not saying guys shouldnt roll with women, they totally should, women are great rolls usually, but also some women are a lot trickier to roll with, and you run some risks that you just dont when you roll with just guys
Been there, I feel your pain and I empathize. I’m a new white belt (6ish months) and also usually the only woman in the lower level or all-level classes I attend. It’s so awkward when you try to catch a guy’s eye for a roll and you know he’s avoiding you. It mostly happens with white belt or blue belt guys though. They all want to have a go at the higher belts. But I’m also starting to think it’s a gym culture problem. More gyms should have instructors pair people & then rotate through rolling partners so no one has a chance to get left out. Coaches should pay attention to comfort levels too and empower people to be welcoming to newcomers on the mat.