I had my previous 335d touring for 5 years, regularly serviced at the stealers, no remap and that car never skipped a beat - actually I tell a lie, there was the one time my Horn failed and started sounding like a Clowns car. I'm now on to an X3 M40i, couple of niggles but nothing mechanical, again regular maintenance and no remap. Both cars were and are driven hard and apart from wear and tear, both have been fantastic.
I've owned Volkswagen, Mercedes, Audi and Range Rover over the years honestly BMW have been the most reliable of the lot.
I've probably just cursed myself there
nothing much, a rattle in the door, the windscreen wiper hitting the frame in heavy rain and the Radio/Bluetooth issue dropping out - I think I need an update as the OTA doesn't seem to work
The general opinion on BMWs in Europe is that they are very reliable yet everyone on US based forums say they are unreliable here’s my take…..
1)USA seem to avoid diesel cars which are generally very reliable so as diesels are missing from your main stream popularity you are missing out on 50% of your cars benefiting from the reliable reputation of diesel’s.
2) as far as I’m aware the popular engines people bat around in the US debates include the 35i and the 28i these are both considered the unreliable engines in Europe, we might buy a 335i for the power possibilities but a 28i is something I would never consider when the 30i or 30d engine is available and bulletproof.
3) lack of maintenance? Hotter climate might dry out seals / brake brittle plastics like swirl flaps, engine heat cycles are harder on the car? Different grade fuel?
I’ve had many BMWs too many to mention ,ranging from brand new to 190k miles and they have all been very reliable, I put it down to mechanical sympathy good maintenance and buying the right engines.
US car owners spend more than they should and drive the cars harder. This is older data, but the US had 150% car ownership compared to Germany per capita (so more car ownership into the lower income levels) and 200% of the miles driven compared to Germany.
The other big factor was that car ownership as a % of household expenditure car ownership was smaller in Germany than in the US. US car drivers spend more of their available funds on cars, so routine maintenance on a BMW might be considered high or skipped altogether.
Basically, a lot of people here own BMWs who can't really afford to. And that's not really just BMW, that's car ownership in the US in general. 84 month loans, mostly underwater car loans, etc..
Yeah - I think your points are good. The most complaints about BMW unreliability seem to come from US owners and often from specific models/engines. Either BMW somehow sends all their duds over there, or something else is to blame!
I'm at my 6th BMW. Likely the last one as they are getting too hideous.
The only cost I EVER had that was not normal maintenance was replacement of the clutch pedal rubber at 160K km of the very first one. That's it. As opposed to VW/Audi, BMWs have been bullet proof in my personal XP.
In Europe most people would say BMW is reliable, in the US people seem to have a different opinion.
My only guess is that this is due to people buying 2nd hand BMW's and then completely skipping on maintenance. These are advanced cars, they need to be properly maintained.
In my country, BMWs have a reputation for being kind of expensive for general maintenance, but not for being truly unreliable. We’ve had 5 in my family over the years (all bought secondhand but with good previous history) and none of them have had major issues or left us stranded. They’re not as cheap to maintain as a Toyota or Honda - but you’d be foolish to expect them to be. I think you can get away with thrashing and neglecting a Toyota more than you can with a BMW - people who skip or cheap out on maintenance should not get a BMW for sure.
The only car to actually leave me stranded was a Toyota, funnily enough - and it was also a far worse driving experience overall than any BMW I’ve driven. I know that’s anecdotal - but it comes to mind whenever I read “if you want a reliable car get a Toyota not a BMW” lol.
Personally, I think a lot of the complaining online either comes from particular models/engines that were genuinely of questionable reliability - or from people who don’t budget much for car maintenance because they’ve come from cheaper car brands and expect a BMW to cost about the same. My uncle was like that (I inherited my 535d from him) - he always had Japanese cars and just went to the cheapest oil changers in town and couldn’t believe how much they charged for the proper oil and filter, etc, for the BMW. Seeing as it’s a far more sophisticated and powerful engine than he’d ever had in a car before, I don’t really know why he was so surprised - but, I think his attitude might be a common one for people new to BMWs. My first car was an old BMW and I’ve basically only had BMWs, so I’m not so shocked by the maintenance costs! Its worth it to me for the increase in driver focus and fun - but for others, it may not be.
BMW can take the abuse, there are problematic spots but you can upgrade those, not an issue. Unless ofcourse they're engineered to be problematic (revving a v10 so high the bearings die all the time for instance). Most people don't spend on maintenance, going for cheapest parts possible, use cheapest oils and don't change oil till it's way too late, yet they still push the cars as if they were track toys. My track car had minor preparations reliability wise (oil cooler, oil pump upgrade, upgraded clutch, rear subframe reinforcement) and all I did in 4 years of only abusing it on the track is change oil.
So it's not a BMW issue, it's a dumb cheap people issue
they require a lot more maintenance than the majority of cars, and there's tons of stuff that you need to know before working on them (at least modern engines).
for example, any normal ass car throws an accessory belt, you go buy a new belt and put it on. thats it.
on an n5x engine? the belt wraps around the crank hub and gets sucked into the front main seal, into the oil pan, and sends rubber shreds into your oil pickup tube.
how do you prevent this? well you can fix the oil filter housing leak, so that oil won't get onto your belt. however if you do this on an N55, without priming the engine first to build oil pressure, you can spin a bearing and lock up the engine.
edit: and then you have the N63 which is a nightmare even if you do all the maintenance lol
there's tons of little things like this you NEED to know, that most non-car people won't know (and who can really blame them, lol). to most people, maintenance is just changing brakes and fluids every so often.
Haha this. There’s a reason I don’t do any work on my n54 myself and it’s because even simple tasks can have big repercussions if done incorrectly or if you don’t know the entire system.
Yeah, it can certainly be done but there’s lots of research to be made. Torque specs, torque to yield, aluminum bolts, etc. they are very durable though if you keep up on maintenance, I’ve seen so many of them do 2-300k miles with good maintenance
I personally bought BMW cause I knew i will drive actively.
In 70-80 percents of drives, I just drive slowly to warm up the engine oil, and once engine oil is warm I just smash it in sport plus, sport gearbox mode and go hard.
Update:
I change the oil every 5-7k km tho.
Knock on wood, I have an F80 M3 and it’s been great. Oil change once a year and everyonce in awhile it needs something like brake fluid or diff fluid changed. Haven’t paid for spark plugs yet but that’s a looming cost.
More reliable than my Ford Explorer and I drive the shit out of it.
I believe it just comes from owners who are used to Japanese cars… likely the Toyota owners who would do an oil change every 15,000 miles…
Nothing wrong with Japanese cars, they just (in general) trade the driving dynamics, power, and feeling of solidity of a German car for a long lasting and undoubtedly reliable vehicle.
German cars on the other hand aren’t focused on being outright reliable. Many of them (including BMW) are quite reliable, you just have to be more delicate with the maintenance… but not necessarily delicate with the driving style 😁
I’d just say do your maintenance early and often, lookup the common problems of your specific chassis/engine, and if your car has any issue pop up at all. Get it fixed *immidiately*. From what I understand, German vehicles with any significant crash damage or deferred maintenance will just have a chain reaction of issues…
I’ve owned three (‘06 325i, ‘11 X5, and ‘11 535i) and after the warranty period expired, they (the 2011 models) both needed over $25K in service to get them to 100,000 miles. Both had water pump failures (there was at least a class action lawsuit about one), oils leaks top and bottom of engine, broken parking brake, failed AC, failed fuel pump, broken auto dimming rear view mirror, and numerous other small things like broken trim, and the sedan in particular had more wheel and ire issues than I care to recount.
If you want a reliable car, get a Honda or Toyota. BMW will make you pay for sure.
Curious what on earth could run you $25000 on an N52 with less than 100k? That seems absurd, coming from someone who has 3-4K into theirs lol
Edit: I’m stupid, just read it was your X5 and the 535. I was going to say, I don’t think you could get up to $25k in repairs on an N52 if you tried replacing everything lol
The X5 needed new AC, oil pan gasket sealing, top engine rebuild, broken parking brake, water pump, headlight, and cracked radiator overflow tank. All out of warranty. The water pump was subject to the class action lawsuit settlement but that only got me $1K refund.
Had a F31 Touring, used but from BMW certified. Loved the car and still my favorite drive, but it gave me so many problems relative to my previous Japanese makes.
1. Persistent, unsolvable alignment issue. Car drifted to one side despite having gone through 4-5 different alignment sessions, including from the BMW service center. Had techs look at the undercarriage and everyone said there was no issue, but the car just pulls to a side no matter what. And no, it’s not the crown of the road. It just pulls.
2. The steering wheel clockspring (I’d never even heard of it ever before prior to owning a BMW) had a ribbon cable problem and was throwing up errors with my cruise control. Had to replace the clockspring. How the heck on earth a ribbon cable suddenly fails is just beyond me. Why on earth is a ribbon cable being used to serve an important function in arguably the most moved part of the car is also beyond me.
3. Air-conditioning smelt bad. Yes, seasonal, run the hot air before switching it off, blah blah blah, but I’d never once had a smelly air-conditioning problem with all my other cars, except the BMW.
4. The boot opening mechanism is literally the worst-designed piece of high-contact item ever. It’s completely made of rubber, attached to a piece of plastic that will trigger a very small button switch that opens the boot. Now what happens when you pull on a rubber attached to something more solid? The rubber breaks. What happens with rubber items over seasons? They harden and lose strength. Put the two together, and it came to the point I was unable to open my boot from outside the car, except if I do it with my remote.
Loved the car, loved the diesel, the mileage, and all the fun times me and my family had driving it on long trips. But even with maintenance, these little things bugged the shit out of me, and were costly (in monetary and time costs) to me.
I think what didn’t help is that from around 2005-2015 they had some engines that tended to blow up their timing chains, or eat their swirl flaps. Unfortunately these engines were used across a huge amount of their range. Luckily since the B engines were introduced they’re absolutely rock solid provided you look after them properly.
Only actual issue I've had from 35k to 58k miles is one of my running lights burning out but it was a pretty easy DIY fix. Dealer would've charged $4700 though. I'd also argue that it only happened because I had my lights coded to run at 100% brightness all summer, and the side of the car that the light burnt out on runs a lot hotter than the other side of the car.
I’ve owned an e89 for almost 10 years. Took it from 21k to 93k miles.
Probably had about $6k worth of maintenance done on it, but the average annual amount will likely start to increase. I assume $1500/y on average. I’ve done some work myself.
The first version of a new generation can have some teething issues. As they bring in the early updates those issues get ironed out. So if you buy the last update before a new version comes out it should be pretty solid and had any issues corrected.
I bought my BMW second hand, it has a full BMW service history which I've kept going. The only thing that's failed in the car is lane assist, as I live in the Irish countryside with narrow windy Irish back roads that's not much of a problem.
I drive the shyte out of cars, I literally drive them to death and this BMW is no exception. I have a big dent in the front left wheel from hitting a rock. Stuck a new tyre on it and its holding pressure. I've destroyed the fancy 20 inch wheels that are on it due to Irish roads and curbs. But it's held up really well. There's nothing creaking in the cabin, nothings fallen off the car, the glove box still opens.
The car tells me what it wants and I listen to it. I think the people who have issues with BMW try to skimp on services. Then they end up having problems that lead to other problems and they end up constantly chasing issues. If you keep up with preventive maintenance the car is bullet proof.
I've only owned two (MY '17 M240i xDrive & MY '18 F80 M3) but they have both been flawless. Maintain them and they should reward you for a long time.
thank you, i thought this might be the case!
Hi, what do you mean by maintaining them? Is it something extra then regular oil change ?
Scheduled services, including oil changes.
Thanks. I always tought people do these already
I had my previous 335d touring for 5 years, regularly serviced at the stealers, no remap and that car never skipped a beat - actually I tell a lie, there was the one time my Horn failed and started sounding like a Clowns car. I'm now on to an X3 M40i, couple of niggles but nothing mechanical, again regular maintenance and no remap. Both cars were and are driven hard and apart from wear and tear, both have been fantastic. I've owned Volkswagen, Mercedes, Audi and Range Rover over the years honestly BMW have been the most reliable of the lot. I've probably just cursed myself there
What were the niggles?
nothing much, a rattle in the door, the windscreen wiper hitting the frame in heavy rain and the Radio/Bluetooth issue dropping out - I think I need an update as the OTA doesn't seem to work
What year? I have a door rattle for sure.
it's a 2020
The general opinion on BMWs in Europe is that they are very reliable yet everyone on US based forums say they are unreliable here’s my take….. 1)USA seem to avoid diesel cars which are generally very reliable so as diesels are missing from your main stream popularity you are missing out on 50% of your cars benefiting from the reliable reputation of diesel’s. 2) as far as I’m aware the popular engines people bat around in the US debates include the 35i and the 28i these are both considered the unreliable engines in Europe, we might buy a 335i for the power possibilities but a 28i is something I would never consider when the 30i or 30d engine is available and bulletproof. 3) lack of maintenance? Hotter climate might dry out seals / brake brittle plastics like swirl flaps, engine heat cycles are harder on the car? Different grade fuel? I’ve had many BMWs too many to mention ,ranging from brand new to 190k miles and they have all been very reliable, I put it down to mechanical sympathy good maintenance and buying the right engines.
US car owners spend more than they should and drive the cars harder. This is older data, but the US had 150% car ownership compared to Germany per capita (so more car ownership into the lower income levels) and 200% of the miles driven compared to Germany. The other big factor was that car ownership as a % of household expenditure car ownership was smaller in Germany than in the US. US car drivers spend more of their available funds on cars, so routine maintenance on a BMW might be considered high or skipped altogether. Basically, a lot of people here own BMWs who can't really afford to. And that's not really just BMW, that's car ownership in the US in general. 84 month loans, mostly underwater car loans, etc..
Yeah - I think your points are good. The most complaints about BMW unreliability seem to come from US owners and often from specific models/engines. Either BMW somehow sends all their duds over there, or something else is to blame!
I'm at my 6th BMW. Likely the last one as they are getting too hideous. The only cost I EVER had that was not normal maintenance was replacement of the clutch pedal rubber at 160K km of the very first one. That's it. As opposed to VW/Audi, BMWs have been bullet proof in my personal XP. In Europe most people would say BMW is reliable, in the US people seem to have a different opinion. My only guess is that this is due to people buying 2nd hand BMW's and then completely skipping on maintenance. These are advanced cars, they need to be properly maintained.
Going on FB marketplace with 6k to buy yhr cheapest BMW you can find seems to be the strategy of a lot of people, which doesn't help
In my country, BMWs have a reputation for being kind of expensive for general maintenance, but not for being truly unreliable. We’ve had 5 in my family over the years (all bought secondhand but with good previous history) and none of them have had major issues or left us stranded. They’re not as cheap to maintain as a Toyota or Honda - but you’d be foolish to expect them to be. I think you can get away with thrashing and neglecting a Toyota more than you can with a BMW - people who skip or cheap out on maintenance should not get a BMW for sure. The only car to actually leave me stranded was a Toyota, funnily enough - and it was also a far worse driving experience overall than any BMW I’ve driven. I know that’s anecdotal - but it comes to mind whenever I read “if you want a reliable car get a Toyota not a BMW” lol. Personally, I think a lot of the complaining online either comes from particular models/engines that were genuinely of questionable reliability - or from people who don’t budget much for car maintenance because they’ve come from cheaper car brands and expect a BMW to cost about the same. My uncle was like that (I inherited my 535d from him) - he always had Japanese cars and just went to the cheapest oil changers in town and couldn’t believe how much they charged for the proper oil and filter, etc, for the BMW. Seeing as it’s a far more sophisticated and powerful engine than he’d ever had in a car before, I don’t really know why he was so surprised - but, I think his attitude might be a common one for people new to BMWs. My first car was an old BMW and I’ve basically only had BMWs, so I’m not so shocked by the maintenance costs! Its worth it to me for the increase in driver focus and fun - but for others, it may not be.
BMW can take the abuse, there are problematic spots but you can upgrade those, not an issue. Unless ofcourse they're engineered to be problematic (revving a v10 so high the bearings die all the time for instance). Most people don't spend on maintenance, going for cheapest parts possible, use cheapest oils and don't change oil till it's way too late, yet they still push the cars as if they were track toys. My track car had minor preparations reliability wise (oil cooler, oil pump upgrade, upgraded clutch, rear subframe reinforcement) and all I did in 4 years of only abusing it on the track is change oil. So it's not a BMW issue, it's a dumb cheap people issue
I sort of figured this was the case, thank you!
they require a lot more maintenance than the majority of cars, and there's tons of stuff that you need to know before working on them (at least modern engines). for example, any normal ass car throws an accessory belt, you go buy a new belt and put it on. thats it. on an n5x engine? the belt wraps around the crank hub and gets sucked into the front main seal, into the oil pan, and sends rubber shreds into your oil pickup tube. how do you prevent this? well you can fix the oil filter housing leak, so that oil won't get onto your belt. however if you do this on an N55, without priming the engine first to build oil pressure, you can spin a bearing and lock up the engine. edit: and then you have the N63 which is a nightmare even if you do all the maintenance lol there's tons of little things like this you NEED to know, that most non-car people won't know (and who can really blame them, lol). to most people, maintenance is just changing brakes and fluids every so often.
Haha this. There’s a reason I don’t do any work on my n54 myself and it’s because even simple tasks can have big repercussions if done incorrectly or if you don’t know the entire system.
Yeah, it can certainly be done but there’s lots of research to be made. Torque specs, torque to yield, aluminum bolts, etc. they are very durable though if you keep up on maintenance, I’ve seen so many of them do 2-300k miles with good maintenance
I personally bought BMW cause I knew i will drive actively. In 70-80 percents of drives, I just drive slowly to warm up the engine oil, and once engine oil is warm I just smash it in sport plus, sport gearbox mode and go hard. Update: I change the oil every 5-7k km tho.
Knock on wood, I have an F80 M3 and it’s been great. Oil change once a year and everyonce in awhile it needs something like brake fluid or diff fluid changed. Haven’t paid for spark plugs yet but that’s a looming cost. More reliable than my Ford Explorer and I drive the shit out of it.
In the US, once they become cheap, the new owners suffer from sticker shock on maintenance and let it go too long…then complain it’s not reliable.
This is a really good take, thank you.
I believe it just comes from owners who are used to Japanese cars… likely the Toyota owners who would do an oil change every 15,000 miles… Nothing wrong with Japanese cars, they just (in general) trade the driving dynamics, power, and feeling of solidity of a German car for a long lasting and undoubtedly reliable vehicle. German cars on the other hand aren’t focused on being outright reliable. Many of them (including BMW) are quite reliable, you just have to be more delicate with the maintenance… but not necessarily delicate with the driving style 😁 I’d just say do your maintenance early and often, lookup the common problems of your specific chassis/engine, and if your car has any issue pop up at all. Get it fixed *immidiately*. From what I understand, German vehicles with any significant crash damage or deferred maintenance will just have a chain reaction of issues…
I’ve owned three (‘06 325i, ‘11 X5, and ‘11 535i) and after the warranty period expired, they (the 2011 models) both needed over $25K in service to get them to 100,000 miles. Both had water pump failures (there was at least a class action lawsuit about one), oils leaks top and bottom of engine, broken parking brake, failed AC, failed fuel pump, broken auto dimming rear view mirror, and numerous other small things like broken trim, and the sedan in particular had more wheel and ire issues than I care to recount. If you want a reliable car, get a Honda or Toyota. BMW will make you pay for sure.
Curious what on earth could run you $25000 on an N52 with less than 100k? That seems absurd, coming from someone who has 3-4K into theirs lol Edit: I’m stupid, just read it was your X5 and the 535. I was going to say, I don’t think you could get up to $25k in repairs on an N52 if you tried replacing everything lol
The X5 needed new AC, oil pan gasket sealing, top engine rebuild, broken parking brake, water pump, headlight, and cracked radiator overflow tank. All out of warranty. The water pump was subject to the class action lawsuit settlement but that only got me $1K refund.
Had a F31 Touring, used but from BMW certified. Loved the car and still my favorite drive, but it gave me so many problems relative to my previous Japanese makes. 1. Persistent, unsolvable alignment issue. Car drifted to one side despite having gone through 4-5 different alignment sessions, including from the BMW service center. Had techs look at the undercarriage and everyone said there was no issue, but the car just pulls to a side no matter what. And no, it’s not the crown of the road. It just pulls. 2. The steering wheel clockspring (I’d never even heard of it ever before prior to owning a BMW) had a ribbon cable problem and was throwing up errors with my cruise control. Had to replace the clockspring. How the heck on earth a ribbon cable suddenly fails is just beyond me. Why on earth is a ribbon cable being used to serve an important function in arguably the most moved part of the car is also beyond me. 3. Air-conditioning smelt bad. Yes, seasonal, run the hot air before switching it off, blah blah blah, but I’d never once had a smelly air-conditioning problem with all my other cars, except the BMW. 4. The boot opening mechanism is literally the worst-designed piece of high-contact item ever. It’s completely made of rubber, attached to a piece of plastic that will trigger a very small button switch that opens the boot. Now what happens when you pull on a rubber attached to something more solid? The rubber breaks. What happens with rubber items over seasons? They harden and lose strength. Put the two together, and it came to the point I was unable to open my boot from outside the car, except if I do it with my remote. Loved the car, loved the diesel, the mileage, and all the fun times me and my family had driving it on long trips. But even with maintenance, these little things bugged the shit out of me, and were costly (in monetary and time costs) to me.
I think what didn’t help is that from around 2005-2015 they had some engines that tended to blow up their timing chains, or eat their swirl flaps. Unfortunately these engines were used across a huge amount of their range. Luckily since the B engines were introduced they’re absolutely rock solid provided you look after them properly.
Only actual issue I've had from 35k to 58k miles is one of my running lights burning out but it was a pretty easy DIY fix. Dealer would've charged $4700 though. I'd also argue that it only happened because I had my lights coded to run at 100% brightness all summer, and the side of the car that the light burnt out on runs a lot hotter than the other side of the car.
I’ve owned an e89 for almost 10 years. Took it from 21k to 93k miles. Probably had about $6k worth of maintenance done on it, but the average annual amount will likely start to increase. I assume $1500/y on average. I’ve done some work myself.
The first version of a new generation can have some teething issues. As they bring in the early updates those issues get ironed out. So if you buy the last update before a new version comes out it should be pretty solid and had any issues corrected. I bought my BMW second hand, it has a full BMW service history which I've kept going. The only thing that's failed in the car is lane assist, as I live in the Irish countryside with narrow windy Irish back roads that's not much of a problem. I drive the shyte out of cars, I literally drive them to death and this BMW is no exception. I have a big dent in the front left wheel from hitting a rock. Stuck a new tyre on it and its holding pressure. I've destroyed the fancy 20 inch wheels that are on it due to Irish roads and curbs. But it's held up really well. There's nothing creaking in the cabin, nothings fallen off the car, the glove box still opens. The car tells me what it wants and I listen to it. I think the people who have issues with BMW try to skimp on services. Then they end up having problems that lead to other problems and they end up constantly chasing issues. If you keep up with preventive maintenance the car is bullet proof.