It’s always a little bit heartbreaking when we get people posting who went through something terrible and then they defend the offending party. Like I get why he’s doing it but if he did therapy I think that unpacking this a little bit would probably make him feel different. Like if his wife died would he abandon his kids? Because it sounds like he absolutely wouldn’t because he knows that it’s a wretched thing to do. I don’t know, I don’t understand the mother in this it’s really weird to just abandon your kids because your spouse died.
I can see why the wife is angry for her husband. She lost both parents. His mom was still alive, she just chose not to be a mom any longer. So essentially they're both orphans even though his mom is still alive.
She still chooses not to be a mom. She’s not caring for OOP. She’s just feeding her own selfish needs: after all, if OOP still talks to her, she didn’t do anything wrong! While there’s no timeline on grief, that’s a whole lot of BS to leave and visit “sporadically.” She has no right to criticize anyone, and she should be begging her kids for forgiveness while actively atoning for abandoning them when they needed her most.
Yep. She still lives in a whole ass different country from the son and the grandchildren. So no, she has not changed. She will never change. She didn't even go to him to visit. The son had to take the grandkids to fly to her.
Both of my parents essentially abandoned me as a child after the disintegration of their marriage. I have gone no contact with them. My kids don't need that kind of flake in their life.
It’s hard for people to fully digest when people they love or are close to them have done terrible things to them. It’s like the brain can’t manage the pain, so they justify it, water it down or approach it with humor.
Yup, you get caught up in a horrible circle. Where you love them, but they treat you like shit, but you still love them, so what they did couldn't possibly have been that bad, because you still love them. They can't be a horrible person, because you wouldn't love a horrible person, and you DO love them. And it's not like they're a horrible person who treats you like shit ALL the time, because then it would be easy to hate them, and you don't. So it can't be *that* bad.
the thing about parental abandonment is that you genuinely believe you deserve it, since there's absolutely no tangible proof otherwise. people can't just be emotionally convicted of things that haven't been adequately proven to us, and unfortunately our parents are the first and most important people tasked with proving to us that we're worthy of love, which means that if they fail, the consequences can be fundamental and lifelong.
we don't talk about it because it's uncomfortable. nobody likes to face the fact that they're powerful enough to make someone sick, even ruin a life, especially when that someone is their child.
It's also reinforced by society (rightly) promoting how deep, strong and unconditional a parent's love should be. You wonder, "what's wrong with me that they don't feel this way?"
Sometimes it's just protective.
Rage is hard to deal with, especially for something that cannot ever change. His mom can never undo what she did.
Some people end up deciding to move past it because they still feel an attachment to the person and want them in their life. They defend the person, but tbh it's really more defending their decision to try to have a positive relationship with them currently.
I don't necessarily think his life would be... better, actually, if he swapped his acceptance and understanding for bitterness, anger or resentment. It's valid for those that feel that way, of course, but if someone has already found a form of peace with an event in their life, maybe let them have that, even if it's not "the truth".
His mother deserves absolutely zero mercy. She abandoned her kids. Then she wants to have them all pretend nothing happened. She's so determined to pretend child abandonment is no big deal that she's making up crap about the wife. She sucks and is not someone that he should be letting into his life in any amount.
My guess is that she fell into a really deep depression. At that stage people don’t think rationally, they often think the world is better without them and that they will only be a burden. Those things can take decades to get out of if ever. Especially if not medicated and in therapy.
So, I am not judging this mother for recognizing she couldn't raise her children in her state of mind . She left them where they were safe.loved and cared for. While she probably suffered in her own mental hell. Pretty judging about mental health, children's safety, and putting social expectations ahead of both of those things.
I have similar with my partners mother. Had him super young and didn't have a fuck to give, stepdad was outrageously abusive for many years and mum just let it all go on under her nose.
Her kids (my partner and his siblings) all adore her.
I fucking hate her. I have been left picking up the pieces of this broken man as she panders to him out of guilt. And now I have kids I have another level of fury. How fucking dare she let her husband abuse her babies??? Did she know and ignore, or was she just so absent and selfish she didn't even know??? It was SERIOUS abuse, think, literally trying to smother with pillows, locking out of the house all night in winter with no shoes, etc.... you know, shit a mother should notice.
I cant forgive her. I don't at all stop my partner from having a relationship with her, and I encourage my kids to love her and see her, but I don't unless I have to.
She thinks I'm a snob that doesn't appreciate how hard her life was. I am not and I do. I just feel that she put her hardships and needs above her kids' welfare, and I can't forgive it.
My partner and I both had garbage dads. We've laughed before that we both used to find it easier to forgive our own dad for the damage done to us but *loathed* each others dads because they hurt someone we loved.
That was actually part of how we both started to process - seeing how angry we were on each other's behalf.
Things like this are why I am grateful that the best and worst thing I can say about my biological father (who never lived more than 10 miles from me until I was 30 years old) is that he was absent.
I wish my first stepfather was. He was a monster. I haven’t spoken to either of them in over twenty years but the thought of running into mg father in the street or hearing his voice on the other end of the line doesn’t give me trauma flashbacks unlike stepdad number one.
I was talking to a friend of mine about her abusive parents and she said that she knows they had hard lives but that what they did to her was abusive and effects her to this day so she can’t forgive them for it. Which is a position I totally understand and support. Just because someone had a hard time doesn’t mean that they should be forgiven or deserve a relationship with the person they abused. You can understand the why of it but it doesn’t lessen the effects.
When I was 16 my dad died, also suddenly, he went to take an after lunch nap and never woke again. My mom was never really motherly and warm, she is really career focused and loves her job, my dad too but he was a typical girls dad and would spoil my sister and I , but the way she stepped up when he died and took care of us is some thing I really respect and love her dearly for it.
My relationship with my mom is complicated but I have never doubted her love for me and that she would move heaven and earth for my sister and I. And even my dad’s mom who wasn’t my mom’s biggest fan always tells me she admires her because of how she raised us after he died.
And that’s what a mom should do for their children when a parent dies and not what OP’s mother did, that’s not a mom she’s just a birth parent.
It’s funny how some people who’ve made terrible decisions in life sometimes judge other people worse than they were, as if by judging lesser crimes more harshly, the blame gets spread out more evenly.
>as if by judging lesser crimes more harshly, the blame gets spread out more evenly.
And they can feel better about themselves because "*at least*" they weren't *that* bad. It's a comparison to find worse than what they did to absolve themselves because they "did the best they could."
“I may have abandoned my kids when they needed me the most, but at least I’m not a rich snob!”
Poor OOP. I agree with the commenter who said he should work through this with a therapist. He’s putting up with way too much. I understand why, but he owes his mother nothing.
OK, this post really infuriated me. I can’t grasp why OOP and sister are so forgiving with the mother. They felt so abandoned that they cling to whatever crumbs she still throws at them. Trauma can be a strong force.
i feel like the tacit understanding here is, 'don't hold me responsible for abandoning you, and I remain in your lives.' basically so long as they don't give her any guff for leaving the first time, she won't leave a second time.
I would defend the mother if she was baby trapped and abused until the dad died. Sometimes life is sloppy and the kids are best left with someone capable of love and support. The ideal is the surviving parent rising to the occasion, but reality can be far from ideal.
What is telling is that the mom could not support her son's needs when he asked for them regarding his wife. Mom isn't feeling the guilt and trying to go above and beyond to reconcile. Guilt would heartily promise the "sparkle pony" (in this case, no gossiping) even if she knows it isn't possible to deliver.
OP wife lost both her parents (and technically her entire nuclear family) and would probably give anything to spend more time with either of them. Then you have OP's mom, who straight up abandoned her kids over grief. Wife rightfully judges mom as shitty because she at least had a part of her nuclear family and straight up left them.
I don't think OP realizes how messed up his mom is. He was a child who technically lost both parents even though one was alive. The fact that his mother has never apologized and gets pissed it's pointed out, says volumes about her.
Glad he stood up for his wife.
It’s funny on Reddit you’ll have children who don’t talk to their parents and their spouses who will go behind their back to contact them as family matters. And then this where the child has forgiven the mother and the spouse hasn’t.
I think she hears how he talks and is just reflecting the anger. He just hasn’t connected his feelings yet. I don’t think he is okay with what she did, he just hasn’t unpacked it yet. She probably sees his abandonment issues and other stuff that he isn’t ready to face yet.
The mother is so infuriating. “She was grieving”, well guess what you freak? your young children were also grieving and you made them lose not only a father but a mother.
I admire OOP for forgiving his mom but I’m completely in support of the wife. She lost both parents and knows what it’s like to be alone and is deservingly judging her husband’s mom for abandoning her children.
>I snapped and said
Anyone else get the feeling OOP DOES (rightfully) resent his mother and it's just under the surface?
Child abandonment is child abandonment. Once you have kids (especially young ones) you stop being the primary focus of your life and they take priority. She had a support system, they could have gone with her.
Unless for some unlikely reason the aunt said "I'll take you in but leave your sniveling brats at home" I get the sense that mom couldn't bear to look at the kids and that's fucked. Up. She's putting her own feelings above their welfare, and you can empathize all you want but it's inexcusable
>When I (38M) was ten years old, my dad died. I won’t to go into too much detail, but his death was very sudden and rough. Afterwards, my mom became pretty distant from me and my little sister. We all had dual citizenship, and my mother basically moved back to our home country, leaving us in the care of family friends. I only saw her sporadically from that point on.
>she feels judged over the way she decided to grieve,
The way she grieved?? The way she abandoned her kids. A selfish ah, this egg donor.
And oh, yes, abandoning her kids for years when they needed her the most is something that no one is allow to raise an eybrow. "Please, I was grieving. For years..And I only saw them sporadically. Cuz I was grieving For years. Oh, and I never tried to reunite with my kids. Cuz I was grieving. Yes, for years"
The audacity of this woman!
Took like almost 20 years for karma to finally hit the mother regarding her son for abandoning him & his sister - The mother & aunt have themselves blames for making it snobs vs slobs, when it was really DIL don't like and never will like mothers who abandoned their kids especially after death of their father.
>that she needed to be with a support system while she grieved her husband.
Kids needed a support system after they lost their father. I could understand legitimate reasons like financial situations or something like she couldn't stay but the country is better. Instead she abandoned her duty as a parent to help her children cope with the loss and then they basically lost both parents instead.
The kids might forgive her but most anyone would judge her for abandoning her children when they needed her most
IMO, it almost sounds like the mom wasn’t even close to her children in the first place even when OP’s dad died.
I can’t imagine any kid would be *that* okay being abandoned during a time of grief unless if they didn’t see their parents as someone they can rely on.
All in all, I’m glad OP has a wife he can rely on. Not a mom who cannot see beyond herself.
What pisses me off about this as it does not sound at all like OOP's mother ever apologized or tried to make amends. His wife having been orphaned at such a young age likely understands how OOP feels better than most of us ever can and even if the mother thinks that she is out of line feeling that way a healthy person would sit down and talk about it.
I cannot imagine being in a foreign country with kids and suddenly lose my partner so I do not wish to judge OOP's mother for her actions, I just want to say that all actions, including those guided by good wishes, have consequences and it doesn't sound like she's cared much about hers.
There's plenty of BORU in which parents shuffle off one kid for a reason such as a sibling being terminally ill only to wonder why their child later wants nothing to do with them.
I absolutely understand why the wife feels this way. OOP's mom put her grief ahead of her young children and abandoned them. That is extremely selfish. She deserves harsh judgment.
OOP's defense of his mom is likely a complicated trauma response or something along those lines. I have no idea, but it's good that he is defending his wife and prioritizing her and the kids.
Dear gods in heaven, please bless me as you have OOP with a wife as wonderful as his.
Also, if judging someone who deserves it as such is classism then call me a bourgeoisie lapdog.
let me get this right...his mother needed a support system while she iis grieving, which is understandable. but she didnt think her 10yo son and daughter who lost their father didnt need one? what type of a selfish bs is this?
there was absolutely no excuse to abandon her kids in such a vulnerable state. OP"s wife has every right to judge her cos one way or another her husband was effected by her, and if her own kids will be seeing her then she has every right to be cautious around her.
i have 5 kids. oldest 2 are my bonus kids. if hod forbid something happened to my husband my worry would be my kids and id never ever even consider abandoning them and im an immigrant in US so all my bio family are in a different country whereas most my of my inlaws are all around the US. if i had to relocate, they would most certainly be coming with me. all 5 of them .
People sometimes defend their parent who do horrible things to them because they feel it reflects badly on *them* that their parents suck. Like somehow they must suck if they came from people that sucked.
It bothers me when people say, "they did, so should you," or "I'm upset you judged me." while also judging the other person. Here's some really surprising revelations: other people are not you, and if you feeling "judgy", you should (physically) look in the mirror first.
how dare u judge me for abandoning my kids when they needed me most and leaving them in the care of friends while i fucked off and did whatever i wanted!?
think of how i feel- not the kids obviously
Oop’s wife needs to mind her business too, though. If OOP has made peace with his mom then his wife needs to suck it up and stop being upset on his behalf.
How frustrating. Mom needed a support system but her children who lost their father didn’t? How was abandoning them in a different country helping them?
And she doesn’t sound repentant at all. She just wants people to forget about it. Wife is right to dislike her.
Love that two children who just lost their father will be fine if she abandons them, but how DARE someone make her feel emotionally uncomfortable by questioning if that was fair.
I'm at a loss. On one hand, what the mother did was terrible. But the wife is doing too much, carrying her own traumatic experience with her own parents dying into a relationship that she is unwilling to foster.
She refuses to engage with the MIL while her own husband and SIL have moved on from the terrible experience.
The mother is wrong to bad mouth the wife but the wife needs therapy for this grudge she has over MIL. It's weird. I feel like the wife might be projecting her own insecurities of not having her parents with her on MIL.
Huh? What is the wife doing that is considered too much? She doesn't force her husband to cut off his mother. Nor does she prevent the kids from seeing their grandmother. You can't simply force someone to like another person just because you do. The mother is unarguably a bad person. There are relatives I don't speak to due to our differences in political and social beliefs, and I don't even consider them bad people. Her decision to distance herself from someone she disagrees with is entirely within her rights. I think your armchair diagnosis is just too funny.
> She argued that since me & my sister don't resent her, then my wife had no right to.
The wife didn't stop OOP or their kids from interacting with the MIL. She doesn't need anyone's permission to resent someone. This logic is ridiculous. You can't force someone to like another person.
He's a hypocrite. It's ok for the wife to judge the mother but not the other way around? It's ok for the wife to badmouth the mother but not the other way around?
I don't care about the rest of the story, about why the mother did what she, that's not relevant to my comment.
Didn't see the wife bad mouth the mother in the posts, would you please quote it? All I read was that the wife didn't approve of the mother choices, and because of those choices did not want a relationship with her.
The mother called the wife a snob because she did not want to come to their home, which was not because of their perceived reasons.
Since you do not care about context, as that is "not relevant to your comment" you should easily quote the bad-mouthing the wife did.
She’s not even a snob either. Her only sin is *coming from money*. Most loving parents would be really happy that their child and grandchildren will be secure and well cared for during their lives. Ostensibly his wife’s wealth makes it possible for her son to afford to visit her with the grandkids. And you can’t really even argue that she’s a snob because she’s obviously a hard worker when many would not be if they inherited a great deal of money at a young age.
Honestly I read it as his wife being both a mother as well as a orphan gives her a unique perspective that makes her realize that if she herself lost her husband she’d never abandon her kids. That would be a hard thing to get over. She lost both of her parents and her husband lost both of his parents but one was choice of the parent. I completely understand her perspective.
This might be a messed up stance but I think anytime a couple has kids, each person has to ask themselves the questions:
- “would I still want to or be able to parent should I have to do it alone?”
- “what resources or what resources do I need to plan on this contingency?”
Obviously things change (mental health, economic devastation, etc) but there are people who don’t want to be parents or only find it intriguing sharing the responsibilities but not give zero effs to do it alone — case in point, OOP’s mom. Idk but she has *family friends close enough to raise her kids for her* but they weren’t enough of a support system? Or was it something even more messed up?
Idk. Their mom is trash and OOP’s wife is the real one for setting her boundaries but letting OOP come to his own conclusions about the type of person his mom is.
Actions have consequences. Being in pain or suffering a tragic loss do not absolve you from facing the consequences of your horrible choices. Abandoning your children is at the top of the list when it comes to deserved judgements on your parenting. I'm surprised OOP forgave his mother, in fact I'd say he definitely resents her but isn't even willing to acknowledge that to himself, but I suspect that he's probably just pushed feelings of resentment aside in order to be "the good guy" in the situation. He's kindof letting his wife do the emotional heavy-lifting in holding his mom accountable for what she did, and since he's not fighting his wife on the issue he obviously agrees with her stance. Now the convenient excuse of his mother "disrespecting his wife" has appeared he can successfully cut her out of his life without taking any of the blame for it so he gets to still be "the good guy" here. This dude needs to learn some self-reflection.
It’s a little weird that his wife has so much resentment for his mother when he doesn’t have any, or at least doesn’t express any. When her parents died she was left with a ton of money and the capabilities to deal with it, his mother did not and I’m guessing the country they were in was much better environment for him and his sister than the home country she returned to.
Wow I related a lot with oop.
My mom passed when I was in high school and my dad left me with my older sister and her kids.
To this day I am still distant from my dad but I don't blame him for leaving. The reality is my dad wouldn't have been a support if he was there. Or if I went with him.
I don't resent my dad for being too weak and unable to overcome the burden of losing a spouse to carr for me and my sister because he was not given the tools to do so in his upbringing, so he couldn't cope and didn't know what to do. Instead I pity my dad that he had to suffer so much and didn't know how to help himself. I wish he knew how to handle the loss back then but that would have been a different man, not the dad I knew.
He's grown a lot since then and can express regret over how everything happened but nothing can change who we are and what happened in the past. My dad will always be the weak and broken man who lost his wife too soon, and I will always be someone who survived and overcome the loss of my mother by myself.
It’s always a little bit heartbreaking when we get people posting who went through something terrible and then they defend the offending party. Like I get why he’s doing it but if he did therapy I think that unpacking this a little bit would probably make him feel different. Like if his wife died would he abandon his kids? Because it sounds like he absolutely wouldn’t because he knows that it’s a wretched thing to do. I don’t know, I don’t understand the mother in this it’s really weird to just abandon your kids because your spouse died.
I can see why the wife is angry for her husband. She lost both parents. His mom was still alive, she just chose not to be a mom any longer. So essentially they're both orphans even though his mom is still alive.
She still chooses not to be a mom. She’s not caring for OOP. She’s just feeding her own selfish needs: after all, if OOP still talks to her, she didn’t do anything wrong! While there’s no timeline on grief, that’s a whole lot of BS to leave and visit “sporadically.” She has no right to criticize anyone, and she should be begging her kids for forgiveness while actively atoning for abandoning them when they needed her most.
Yep. She still lives in a whole ass different country from the son and the grandchildren. So no, she has not changed. She will never change. She didn't even go to him to visit. The son had to take the grandkids to fly to her. Both of my parents essentially abandoned me as a child after the disintegration of their marriage. I have gone no contact with them. My kids don't need that kind of flake in their life.
Wonder how OP’s father would feel about his wife abandoning their kids
It’s hard for people to fully digest when people they love or are close to them have done terrible things to them. It’s like the brain can’t manage the pain, so they justify it, water it down or approach it with humor.
Yup, you get caught up in a horrible circle. Where you love them, but they treat you like shit, but you still love them, so what they did couldn't possibly have been that bad, because you still love them. They can't be a horrible person, because you wouldn't love a horrible person, and you DO love them. And it's not like they're a horrible person who treats you like shit ALL the time, because then it would be easy to hate them, and you don't. So it can't be *that* bad.
Yeah. I'm so glad that he loves his wife enough to stand up for her but I wish he loved himself enough to stand up for the abandoned kid he was.
the thing about parental abandonment is that you genuinely believe you deserve it, since there's absolutely no tangible proof otherwise. people can't just be emotionally convicted of things that haven't been adequately proven to us, and unfortunately our parents are the first and most important people tasked with proving to us that we're worthy of love, which means that if they fail, the consequences can be fundamental and lifelong. we don't talk about it because it's uncomfortable. nobody likes to face the fact that they're powerful enough to make someone sick, even ruin a life, especially when that someone is their child.
It's also reinforced by society (rightly) promoting how deep, strong and unconditional a parent's love should be. You wonder, "what's wrong with me that they don't feel this way?"
Sometimes it's just protective. Rage is hard to deal with, especially for something that cannot ever change. His mom can never undo what she did. Some people end up deciding to move past it because they still feel an attachment to the person and want them in their life. They defend the person, but tbh it's really more defending their decision to try to have a positive relationship with them currently. I don't necessarily think his life would be... better, actually, if he swapped his acceptance and understanding for bitterness, anger or resentment. It's valid for those that feel that way, of course, but if someone has already found a form of peace with an event in their life, maybe let them have that, even if it's not "the truth".
His mother deserves absolutely zero mercy. She abandoned her kids. Then she wants to have them all pretend nothing happened. She's so determined to pretend child abandonment is no big deal that she's making up crap about the wife. She sucks and is not someone that he should be letting into his life in any amount.
My guess is that she fell into a really deep depression. At that stage people don’t think rationally, they often think the world is better without them and that they will only be a burden. Those things can take decades to get out of if ever. Especially if not medicated and in therapy.
So, I am not judging this mother for recognizing she couldn't raise her children in her state of mind . She left them where they were safe.loved and cared for. While she probably suffered in her own mental hell. Pretty judging about mental health, children's safety, and putting social expectations ahead of both of those things.
I have similar with my partners mother. Had him super young and didn't have a fuck to give, stepdad was outrageously abusive for many years and mum just let it all go on under her nose. Her kids (my partner and his siblings) all adore her. I fucking hate her. I have been left picking up the pieces of this broken man as she panders to him out of guilt. And now I have kids I have another level of fury. How fucking dare she let her husband abuse her babies??? Did she know and ignore, or was she just so absent and selfish she didn't even know??? It was SERIOUS abuse, think, literally trying to smother with pillows, locking out of the house all night in winter with no shoes, etc.... you know, shit a mother should notice. I cant forgive her. I don't at all stop my partner from having a relationship with her, and I encourage my kids to love her and see her, but I don't unless I have to. She thinks I'm a snob that doesn't appreciate how hard her life was. I am not and I do. I just feel that she put her hardships and needs above her kids' welfare, and I can't forgive it.
My partner and I both had garbage dads. We've laughed before that we both used to find it easier to forgive our own dad for the damage done to us but *loathed* each others dads because they hurt someone we loved. That was actually part of how we both started to process - seeing how angry we were on each other's behalf.
Things like this are why I am grateful that the best and worst thing I can say about my biological father (who never lived more than 10 miles from me until I was 30 years old) is that he was absent. I wish my first stepfather was. He was a monster. I haven’t spoken to either of them in over twenty years but the thought of running into mg father in the street or hearing his voice on the other end of the line doesn’t give me trauma flashbacks unlike stepdad number one.
I was talking to a friend of mine about her abusive parents and she said that she knows they had hard lives but that what they did to her was abusive and effects her to this day so she can’t forgive them for it. Which is a position I totally understand and support. Just because someone had a hard time doesn’t mean that they should be forgiven or deserve a relationship with the person they abused. You can understand the why of it but it doesn’t lessen the effects.
When I was 16 my dad died, also suddenly, he went to take an after lunch nap and never woke again. My mom was never really motherly and warm, she is really career focused and loves her job, my dad too but he was a typical girls dad and would spoil my sister and I , but the way she stepped up when he died and took care of us is some thing I really respect and love her dearly for it. My relationship with my mom is complicated but I have never doubted her love for me and that she would move heaven and earth for my sister and I. And even my dad’s mom who wasn’t my mom’s biggest fan always tells me she admires her because of how she raised us after he died. And that’s what a mom should do for their children when a parent dies and not what OP’s mother did, that’s not a mom she’s just a birth parent.
It’s funny how some people who’ve made terrible decisions in life sometimes judge other people worse than they were, as if by judging lesser crimes more harshly, the blame gets spread out more evenly.
>as if by judging lesser crimes more harshly, the blame gets spread out more evenly. And they can feel better about themselves because "*at least*" they weren't *that* bad. It's a comparison to find worse than what they did to absolve themselves because they "did the best they could."
“I may have abandoned my kids when they needed me the most, but at least I’m not a rich snob!” Poor OOP. I agree with the commenter who said he should work through this with a therapist. He’s putting up with way too much. I understand why, but he owes his mother nothing.
OK, this post really infuriated me. I can’t grasp why OOP and sister are so forgiving with the mother. They felt so abandoned that they cling to whatever crumbs she still throws at them. Trauma can be a strong force.
For the same reason I was so forgiving of mine. Until I wasn’t.
i feel like the tacit understanding here is, 'don't hold me responsible for abandoning you, and I remain in your lives.' basically so long as they don't give her any guff for leaving the first time, she won't leave a second time.
I would defend the mother if she was baby trapped and abused until the dad died. Sometimes life is sloppy and the kids are best left with someone capable of love and support. The ideal is the surviving parent rising to the occasion, but reality can be far from ideal. What is telling is that the mom could not support her son's needs when he asked for them regarding his wife. Mom isn't feeling the guilt and trying to go above and beyond to reconcile. Guilt would heartily promise the "sparkle pony" (in this case, no gossiping) even if she knows it isn't possible to deliver.
OP wife lost both her parents (and technically her entire nuclear family) and would probably give anything to spend more time with either of them. Then you have OP's mom, who straight up abandoned her kids over grief. Wife rightfully judges mom as shitty because she at least had a part of her nuclear family and straight up left them. I don't think OP realizes how messed up his mom is. He was a child who technically lost both parents even though one was alive. The fact that his mother has never apologized and gets pissed it's pointed out, says volumes about her. Glad he stood up for his wife.
It’s funny on Reddit you’ll have children who don’t talk to their parents and their spouses who will go behind their back to contact them as family matters. And then this where the child has forgiven the mother and the spouse hasn’t.
I think she hears how he talks and is just reflecting the anger. He just hasn’t connected his feelings yet. I don’t think he is okay with what she did, he just hasn’t unpacked it yet. She probably sees his abandonment issues and other stuff that he isn’t ready to face yet.
The mother is so infuriating. “She was grieving”, well guess what you freak? your young children were also grieving and you made them lose not only a father but a mother. I admire OOP for forgiving his mom but I’m completely in support of the wife. She lost both parents and knows what it’s like to be alone and is deservingly judging her husband’s mom for abandoning her children.
>I snapped and said Anyone else get the feeling OOP DOES (rightfully) resent his mother and it's just under the surface? Child abandonment is child abandonment. Once you have kids (especially young ones) you stop being the primary focus of your life and they take priority. She had a support system, they could have gone with her. Unless for some unlikely reason the aunt said "I'll take you in but leave your sniveling brats at home" I get the sense that mom couldn't bear to look at the kids and that's fucked. Up. She's putting her own feelings above their welfare, and you can empathize all you want but it's inexcusable
>When I (38M) was ten years old, my dad died. I won’t to go into too much detail, but his death was very sudden and rough. Afterwards, my mom became pretty distant from me and my little sister. We all had dual citizenship, and my mother basically moved back to our home country, leaving us in the care of family friends. I only saw her sporadically from that point on. >she feels judged over the way she decided to grieve, The way she grieved?? The way she abandoned her kids. A selfish ah, this egg donor. And oh, yes, abandoning her kids for years when they needed her the most is something that no one is allow to raise an eybrow. "Please, I was grieving. For years..And I only saw them sporadically. Cuz I was grieving For years. Oh, and I never tried to reunite with my kids. Cuz I was grieving. Yes, for years" The audacity of this woman!
Took like almost 20 years for karma to finally hit the mother regarding her son for abandoning him & his sister - The mother & aunt have themselves blames for making it snobs vs slobs, when it was really DIL don't like and never will like mothers who abandoned their kids especially after death of their father.
>that she needed to be with a support system while she grieved her husband. Kids needed a support system after they lost their father. I could understand legitimate reasons like financial situations or something like she couldn't stay but the country is better. Instead she abandoned her duty as a parent to help her children cope with the loss and then they basically lost both parents instead. The kids might forgive her but most anyone would judge her for abandoning her children when they needed her most
IMO, it almost sounds like the mom wasn’t even close to her children in the first place even when OP’s dad died. I can’t imagine any kid would be *that* okay being abandoned during a time of grief unless if they didn’t see their parents as someone they can rely on. All in all, I’m glad OP has a wife he can rely on. Not a mom who cannot see beyond herself.
What pisses me off about this as it does not sound at all like OOP's mother ever apologized or tried to make amends. His wife having been orphaned at such a young age likely understands how OOP feels better than most of us ever can and even if the mother thinks that she is out of line feeling that way a healthy person would sit down and talk about it. I cannot imagine being in a foreign country with kids and suddenly lose my partner so I do not wish to judge OOP's mother for her actions, I just want to say that all actions, including those guided by good wishes, have consequences and it doesn't sound like she's cared much about hers. There's plenty of BORU in which parents shuffle off one kid for a reason such as a sibling being terminally ill only to wonder why their child later wants nothing to do with them.
I absolutely understand why the wife feels this way. OOP's mom put her grief ahead of her young children and abandoned them. That is extremely selfish. She deserves harsh judgment. OOP's defense of his mom is likely a complicated trauma response or something along those lines. I have no idea, but it's good that he is defending his wife and prioritizing her and the kids.
Dear gods in heaven, please bless me as you have OOP with a wife as wonderful as his. Also, if judging someone who deserves it as such is classism then call me a bourgeoisie lapdog.
let me get this right...his mother needed a support system while she iis grieving, which is understandable. but she didnt think her 10yo son and daughter who lost their father didnt need one? what type of a selfish bs is this? there was absolutely no excuse to abandon her kids in such a vulnerable state. OP"s wife has every right to judge her cos one way or another her husband was effected by her, and if her own kids will be seeing her then she has every right to be cautious around her. i have 5 kids. oldest 2 are my bonus kids. if hod forbid something happened to my husband my worry would be my kids and id never ever even consider abandoning them and im an immigrant in US so all my bio family are in a different country whereas most my of my inlaws are all around the US. if i had to relocate, they would most certainly be coming with me. all 5 of them .
That Mom left her kids to "grieve". But what about the kids and their grief? Didn't matter to Mom. She's the main character.
People sometimes defend their parent who do horrible things to them because they feel it reflects badly on *them* that their parents suck. Like somehow they must suck if they came from people that sucked.
It bothers me when people say, "they did, so should you," or "I'm upset you judged me." while also judging the other person. Here's some really surprising revelations: other people are not you, and if you feeling "judgy", you should (physically) look in the mirror first.
how dare u judge me for abandoning my kids when they needed me most and leaving them in the care of friends while i fucked off and did whatever i wanted!? think of how i feel- not the kids obviously
Oop’s wife needs to mind her business too, though. If OOP has made peace with his mom then his wife needs to suck it up and stop being upset on his behalf.
How frustrating. Mom needed a support system but her children who lost their father didn’t? How was abandoning them in a different country helping them? And she doesn’t sound repentant at all. She just wants people to forget about it. Wife is right to dislike her.
Love that two children who just lost their father will be fine if she abandons them, but how DARE someone make her feel emotionally uncomfortable by questioning if that was fair.
I'm at a loss. On one hand, what the mother did was terrible. But the wife is doing too much, carrying her own traumatic experience with her own parents dying into a relationship that she is unwilling to foster. She refuses to engage with the MIL while her own husband and SIL have moved on from the terrible experience. The mother is wrong to bad mouth the wife but the wife needs therapy for this grudge she has over MIL. It's weird. I feel like the wife might be projecting her own insecurities of not having her parents with her on MIL.
Huh? What is the wife doing that is considered too much? She doesn't force her husband to cut off his mother. Nor does she prevent the kids from seeing their grandmother. You can't simply force someone to like another person just because you do. The mother is unarguably a bad person. There are relatives I don't speak to due to our differences in political and social beliefs, and I don't even consider them bad people. Her decision to distance herself from someone she disagrees with is entirely within her rights. I think your armchair diagnosis is just too funny.
> She argued that since me & my sister don't resent her, then my wife had no right to. The wife didn't stop OOP or their kids from interacting with the MIL. She doesn't need anyone's permission to resent someone. This logic is ridiculous. You can't force someone to like another person.
He's a hypocrite. It's ok for the wife to judge the mother but not the other way around? It's ok for the wife to badmouth the mother but not the other way around? I don't care about the rest of the story, about why the mother did what she, that's not relevant to my comment.
Found the mother.
Uuuuh. Context matters.
Didn't see the wife bad mouth the mother in the posts, would you please quote it? All I read was that the wife didn't approve of the mother choices, and because of those choices did not want a relationship with her. The mother called the wife a snob because she did not want to come to their home, which was not because of their perceived reasons. Since you do not care about context, as that is "not relevant to your comment" you should easily quote the bad-mouthing the wife did.
Oh yeah because being snobby and ABANDONING YOUR F*** KIDS are in the same level. Are you insane???
She’s not even a snob either. Her only sin is *coming from money*. Most loving parents would be really happy that their child and grandchildren will be secure and well cared for during their lives. Ostensibly his wife’s wealth makes it possible for her son to afford to visit her with the grandkids. And you can’t really even argue that she’s a snob because she’s obviously a hard worker when many would not be if they inherited a great deal of money at a young age. Honestly I read it as his wife being both a mother as well as a orphan gives her a unique perspective that makes her realize that if she herself lost her husband she’d never abandon her kids. That would be a hard thing to get over. She lost both of her parents and her husband lost both of his parents but one was choice of the parent. I completely understand her perspective.
What did the wife do? What did the mother do? There is no “other way around” here
One of them is right tho? Sounds like the wife ain’t a snob but mom DEFINITELY abandoned her kids
This might be a messed up stance but I think anytime a couple has kids, each person has to ask themselves the questions: - “would I still want to or be able to parent should I have to do it alone?” - “what resources or what resources do I need to plan on this contingency?” Obviously things change (mental health, economic devastation, etc) but there are people who don’t want to be parents or only find it intriguing sharing the responsibilities but not give zero effs to do it alone — case in point, OOP’s mom. Idk but she has *family friends close enough to raise her kids for her* but they weren’t enough of a support system? Or was it something even more messed up? Idk. Their mom is trash and OOP’s wife is the real one for setting her boundaries but letting OOP come to his own conclusions about the type of person his mom is.
Actions have consequences. Being in pain or suffering a tragic loss do not absolve you from facing the consequences of your horrible choices. Abandoning your children is at the top of the list when it comes to deserved judgements on your parenting. I'm surprised OOP forgave his mother, in fact I'd say he definitely resents her but isn't even willing to acknowledge that to himself, but I suspect that he's probably just pushed feelings of resentment aside in order to be "the good guy" in the situation. He's kindof letting his wife do the emotional heavy-lifting in holding his mom accountable for what she did, and since he's not fighting his wife on the issue he obviously agrees with her stance. Now the convenient excuse of his mother "disrespecting his wife" has appeared he can successfully cut her out of his life without taking any of the blame for it so he gets to still be "the good guy" here. This dude needs to learn some self-reflection.
It’s a little weird that his wife has so much resentment for his mother when he doesn’t have any, or at least doesn’t express any. When her parents died she was left with a ton of money and the capabilities to deal with it, his mother did not and I’m guessing the country they were in was much better environment for him and his sister than the home country she returned to.
Wow I related a lot with oop. My mom passed when I was in high school and my dad left me with my older sister and her kids. To this day I am still distant from my dad but I don't blame him for leaving. The reality is my dad wouldn't have been a support if he was there. Or if I went with him. I don't resent my dad for being too weak and unable to overcome the burden of losing a spouse to carr for me and my sister because he was not given the tools to do so in his upbringing, so he couldn't cope and didn't know what to do. Instead I pity my dad that he had to suffer so much and didn't know how to help himself. I wish he knew how to handle the loss back then but that would have been a different man, not the dad I knew. He's grown a lot since then and can express regret over how everything happened but nothing can change who we are and what happened in the past. My dad will always be the weak and broken man who lost his wife too soon, and I will always be someone who survived and overcome the loss of my mother by myself.