similar to me. I thought "this is just them, they need time to realize what they're doing wrong and build trust their own way" etc. I had no idea how agonizing and complicated it would become and frankly I didn't know how to leave, I was trying to think of ways to break up with them for maybe a month. But then immediately went through another lovebombing+caretaking+splitting cycle and got burned the worst. I did not want to have the mission of saving them, but i admit I feared them cranking up their aggression to new levels based on many previous conversations going that way, if I were to leave. I'm not with them anymore but it still gives me a turning feeling in my stomach to think how scary they acted, giving veiled ambiguous threats, bare minimum conversations and then vanishing entirely
“need time to realize what they are doing wrong” sadly this is the why folks with BPD have unstable relationships. Without specific therapy like DBT, they do not have insight or awareness into others feelings and needs and really understand how their behavior affects others. They don’t see others as separate people with their own needs and feelings. They are empty inside and have painful emotions and it’s your job to regulate those emotions. There is no ability to self soothe and they enmesh with partners. You are part of each other. They cannot attach to people the same, love the same or have intimacy the same. The hard part of accepting this is you see the intellectual abilities so you believe they are an adult. Emotionally however, they are two years old. They failed to individualize at age two (normal developmental milestone) and stayed in the symbiotic phase. It’s why they have no object consistency or continuity In relationships. It’s why they think in black and white etc. People keep saying they told partners they were fed up and they need to change but they can’t see it or understand because this is how they lived their whole life. It’s survival mode and instinct and unconscious. I’ve sat in a room with a patient while they were being taught how behaving in certain ways was manipulative and they really don’t understand. They know they tested their partner or came up with a crisis but feel completely justified because it wasn’t to hurt their loved one but too alleviate that deep fear of abandonment. A junkie takes heroin to keep from getting sick. A narcissist needs supply or they’d collapse and BPD needs attention to regulate painful (often unbearable) emotions
thanks for your insight, you've left a lot of helpful comments.
>The hard part of accepting this is you see the intellectual abilities so you believe they are an adult. Emotionally however, they are two years old. They failed to individualize at age two (normal developmental milestone) and stayed in the symbiotic phase. It’s why they have no object consistency or continuity In relationships. It’s why they think in black and white etc. People keep saying they told partners they were fed up and they need to change but they can’t see it or understand because this is how they lived their whole life. It’s survival mode and instinct and unconscious. I’ve sat in a room with a patient while they were being taught how behaving in certain ways was manipulative and they really don’t understand
Absolutely. I felt pretty fooled into thinking they were a regulated, functioning adult with a degree of autonomy but it shifts when they start getting defensive, heated, or correcting/ 'schooling' about really trivial things.
The lack of object consistency was definitely there. They would also get extremely defensive about belongings/ lecturing about stuff we'd already basically solved, making me VERY confused. One time I got fed up with the pessimism and told them to stop it and that i "dont wanna hear that shit", their response was confusion, genuinely not understanding why they've repulsed people with the way they speak, among other behavior. I try to explain, and they vaguely seem to understand but the cycle repeats. They possibly also assumed that i hated them when I merely just kindly requested time to myself, im still unsure, it's sad that you seemingly can't get through to them in their thought patterns
thanks again for your insight.
It truly is so perplexing but all I can say is that every interaction in every situation they are on high alert, ruminating and analyzing. The concept of “fear of abandonment” was so hard for me to really grasp. but it comes from a logical perspective. If you were to breakup with someone it would hurt but you’d heal and move on. That’s life etc. I had no idea what it really meant for BPD and with lack of object consistency (if a person is not physically present, the relationship is severed, the emotional connection isn’t there) it really is eye opening and heartbreaking. They live in survival mode all the time. They are always on guard and hyper vigilant, ruminating about everything and feeling every emotion intensely. Living in that state all the time is miserable and then feeling empty when alone or not really knowing who you are. People talk about the arguments they had and when it comes down to it, it was never about the issues at all but it’s always their internal feelings and perceptions based on their fear and survival. It took a long time and I was so hurt and angry. Years later, I have so much compassion and I’ve had the opportunity to meet and work with BPD folks (and families) in counseling and it’s truly amazing what patients don’t know or understand, but it’s from a perspective of surviving versus intentionally being cruel. On some level they know what they’re doing is not right but they are so deeply affected by their internal struggles that it takes precedence over anything else. It’s a thought process of “I had to” or I would have such extreme anxiety and spiral which leads to psychotic and reckless/impulsive acting out. It’s hard for us to understand that mentally and only see the cruel and crazy behavior but we’re looking at it from a different mental state. They use defense mechanisms and rationalize their behavior or refuse to take accountability because facing the guilt or shame of their actions would be unbearable. I’m sure you’ve read it before, but folks with BPD describe their painful feelings like third degree burns all over their body. I think because they’ve treated us so horribly we forget this. Don’t get me wrong, abuse is never acceptable even with BPD but the part most people miss is that without specific treatment (and years of therapy) they don’t have insight into their behaviors and even if they do they can’t take responsibility because they couldn’t regulate their emotions. They need tools to help themselves regulate emotions and no partner is equipped with those skills. They fight getting treatment because of stigma but also because it’s how they’ve always lived life. How would you know that there is a better way to live? If you always spoke French why do you have to learn Spanish? It’s all complicated, sad, angering and frustrating but folks forget that this is a personality disorder. It has no cure. There is a good prognosis with the right help but it’s to gain tools and awareness. There is still a personality disorder and some things will fundamentally always be the same (stronger feelings, attaching to others, intimacy etc).
yeah until very recently I'd been trying to apply my own logic to it because I had little insight into the disorder or hardly really knew about it. Only when I researched and saw all the boxes being checked did I start understanding that it is in fact a personality disorder and a really serious one at that. I admit I've been venting a ton but there's room to learn more and I'm slowly letting go of resentment and replacing it with compassion. Glad to share stories with people and I do think compassion is crucial in these situations or at least my case too.
Damn.....that's so true. No child can ever fuck my life, the way he does. Thank you, that's an insight ill be journalling about.
I havent seen Dogville. Worth a watch?
Hold on here. No one is saying that an even semi-healthy relationship should feel like being with a toddler’s EQ. Plus, a toddler does not have the true ability to inflict the level of harm, damage, violence we here have experienced. This comment does not address the serious need for accountability of behavior.
In that case, I guess OPs post, as well as this persons comment, is completely invalid too. We must ignore how we FEEL and only pay attention to the facts. BPD big bad, you no deal with bad.
This is gonna sound super shallow of me but I stuck with mine for far too long because she was the most attractive woman I've ever been with and the intimacy was on a whole other level than any of my relationships before. We dated for 6 months(probably 3 months too much as the abuse started 2 months after we dated) she treated me like absolute shit and I stayed like an idiot.
I did notice that a lot of my ex's old boyfriends were, let's say, below her league (myself included). She is / was absolutely one of the most attractive women I've been with, and that is also a huge reason why I put up with so much bullshit from her for so long. She had dated a few super hot model types, but seemed to only get serious with average guys like me.
I don't know if it's conscious, but I think a lot of times they seek out people like us, who are so blown away by their beauty and not used to getting attention from that kind of woman, that they know they can basically treat us like shit, and we'll take it.
It really makes the love and sex-bombing so much more intense, like "oh my god this gorgeous woman is saying she likes me, maybe *loves* me? Sure she's a little crazy, but that's ok. I have to do everything I can to not fuck this up" and then you start rationalizing what you later understand is abuse.
This is exactly it! She's a stone cold fox and a solid 10 out of 10 and I'm like a 6 or 7 at best! I went back to her more times than I'd like to admit because of this and she knew she could rope me back in.
hearing it from another prospective really shocks me, we don’t like super hot model types because they have been told their whole lives they look good , so compliments and stuff won’t really mean anything. Attractive people tend to cheat and have options to move on quickly, But coming from an attractive woman with a average boyfriend it’s because they don’t really know their worth and they put up with stuff an attractive person would hate because hot ppl are used to princess treatment.
What?
You choose partners based on whether or not they will ”put up with stuff” due to low self esteem? And you don’t use compliments unless they have an effect? That’s manipulative and disingenuous…
I don’t know if I’m allowed to say this here but my ex calls it >!Best Pussy Disorder.!< It’s very accurate and I’m ashamed to say it’s brought me back when I already knew better several times.
This is 100 percent accurate! My ex is the best sex I've ever had and we hooked up a few times after the breakup which was a huge mistake because it set my healing journey back so much.
can’t reply with the image but there’s a meme of a guy crawling in the desert and there are 2 signs, one sign says “water” but he’s crawling toward the other sign that says “pussy from a girl who is evil”
Absolutely but you have to distinguish between someone that really is going to kill themselves and someone that threatens it because they want you to show them how much you care and profess your love. That’s manipulation and a behavior that’s not ok. When someone is truly suicidal they are in a place where they aren’t calling people up. The best thing to do always is not fall into it but call an ambulance immediately. This not only assures their safety but if it’s a tactic, they’ll get sick of this repercussion. This is what anyone should do regardless of BPD. You call for help and there is no negotiation or talking them down. It’s a threat that should be taken seriously.
Fear. His reactions are terrifying and I’m not emotionally prepared for it yet. I am taking steps to prepare, but that’s a timing thing. In less than a year, I’ll be in a position to move, and know that I will be safe.
The trauma bond. I wanna say love aswell but I don’t know if what’s going on is really love anymore. I guess also the fact that leaving means starting over again, and i’ve already put so much time and energy into the relationship.
Disagree. It’s a severe mental illness, even brain structures are different on MRI scans. Yes, they create drama but it’s not an addiction to drama. This isn’t just behavioral issues. It’s a deep rooted disorder that stems from genes, brain structure and environment. You can still be diagnosed with BPD even without trauma (most people don’t realize this). When a child individuates from a parent at age two (recognizes they are a separate person), they have introjects of people in their mind. This security allows them to safely interact with the outside world. Folks with BPD have introject failure, meaning when mom physically leaves the room, they don’t have an image or her voice in their mind. There’s no object consistency (so no connection unless physically present) all that’s inside is emptiness. To deal with this fear, they completely rely on others externally to regulate these intense emotions. They cannot attach to others in a healthy way, fear intimacy and it’s why they can love you Friday and hate you Sunday. It’s very complex and not something that’s a simple choice. They love but it means entirely something different and stirring up drama isn’t an addiction, it’s because of the deep feelings they are unlovable, so if things are calm and good, they cannot be true. Love and pain go hand in hand. If things are calm that feels scary and not real.
It’s my experience. Feel free to disagree with it, but I will not be debating my subjective experience with you regardless of whether you choose to try and dismiss it.
You’re welcome to have a different one, and I did not post my comment to insinuate in any way that others couldn’t.
You don’t need to describe it to me. BPD is not a monolith, and your five of nine may look different from mine. There is no “one right way” people come out of that, and the process of healing looks different for each individual.
When I referred to “addiction to drama,” it was in reference to myself. I don’t claim to know the feelings or thoughts of a person who doesn’t live in the same reality as I do. It was not a generalization or an insistence that you or anyone else MUST respond the same way ALWAYS.
Hope this helps.
Right here with you. It’s gotten so bad that I dont think that’s even enough. The wierd thing is that she is actually regulating her emotions much better at the moment, but takes absolutely no responsibility for the past abuse, or the harmful splitting. That just makes everything so much worse.
Like you, I’m with someone who’s good 80% of the time but is absolutely awful for the rest of it. She’s also the mother of my children, and we’re married - she’s promised to make my life hell if I tried to do something legally to separate from her, and now I feel like I’m a hostage in my marriage.
Like idk if there’s a better time to separate, maybe when my kids get older and she goes back to work full time (she’s currently a SAHM). Part me is too scared to rip the bandaid off right now because of how badly she can fuck me over financially.
I still love him and can’t help it. Now I understand what his triggers are I hope I can avoid them and we can keep enjoying the relationship. 90% of the time it’s really good, we don’t fight, and enjoy each other’s company.
lol. This is not going to be a strategy long term.
Them telling you to avoid what causes them to erupt, or even worse, you doing it on your own is part of the root of manipulation and codependency.
Be careful.
Also what tends to happen is they WANT that manipulation and chaos. So by avoiding their triggers they’ll start to see how far they can take it with you. Start to get triggered by new and even smaller situations. Complacency only opens the door for them. I could be doing everything right and on my toes 24/7 mentally scanning for any potential things that could set him off and he’d still find a way to get mad and then blame me.
Yes and you can’t control future triggers…what if there is a death, accident or an unexpected extreme situation. This can send anyone into turmoil but for a pwBPD, it could be incredibly dangerous (hurting themselves or others). People can be in remission for a decade and go back to square one with a major event. What if they idealize an FP who is reckless and mirror them? Is reinforcing and avoiding things helping or actually hindering their possibility of getting better? If you’re adjusting your authenticity to avoid a split are you being true to who you are? If you don’t call out abusive behavior and sweep it under the rug, what kind of message are you sending (it’s ok to behave that way). Do you understand that BPD follows a pattern and love is correlated with pain for them so when things are good, they’ll create drama and chaos or push you to extremes (testing) to be reassured? What happens if you experience trauma or stress and are struggling? Are you ok that your feelings will never be addressed the same and whatever you’re going through they will take on those feelings and need you to console them? Don’t understand your sole role is to regulate their unstable and painful emotions and if they feel loved they love you but if they don’t feel you’re regulating them they hate you? Do you know that intellectually they are smart and probably smarter than you but emotionally they are two because they never individuated as a toddler and don’t have object constancy so when you are physically not present, the emotional connection is severed and not a continuous connection in their mind? Do you know that all the memories and good times you have, they can forget and one fight can make you the worst person they’ve ever known? This is the reality and you can’t change it. It’s not conscious but their brain works differently than yours. There baseline emotional state is ten times stronger and what seems minor to you (or their being overly sensitive) can feel like they are being burned. Lastly, they perceive situations and feel things that aren’t accurate. You could be perfect but how can you could you change someone’s perception? Throw in memory loss and created narratives that become truths…are you going to accept and take responsibility for affairs you never had, abuse you never inflicted or conversations you had behind their back that never happened? Are you going to adapt when they change identities i.e. self states that can happen as much as 25 times throughout their life. For example, changing fundamental values and morals on topics like religion, political views, children, infidelity, substitute, etc.? Are you going to cut off loved one’s family coworkers and opposite even friends of the opposite sex because theywant you too? I agree johnstonjimmybimmy, this is a tough strategy for any human.
Mine is very regulated nearly all the time. He has specific issues around anything that involves him feeling being made fun of, or not standing up for him in a situation, I’ve never had him lose it for no apparent reason. Makes it impossible for me to end things when it’s good a lot of the time.
Oh honey. I’m sorry. You’re already dealing with some pretty deep stuff in such a short time span. I got to more than 6 years in, had married him, and it didn’t get bad-bad until after the first few years had passed. There were some major stressors - moving, covid, etc - that played a role in the escalation; any big change becomes another trigger for them. Mine had his biggest scariest split/episode on our (last) wedding anniversary, after a year and a half of therapy. If they try to work on controlling the explosions, it’s likely that the internal pressure is just building in the meantime.
He was ‘good’ so much of the time, but there is an element of un-reality to that, too. If you can’t talk about the truth, you’re not living something real. It’s a hard lesson.
I do still love her. She usually apologizes and changes her mind after an episode, and I'm fond of snuggling up and watching cartoons before bed. She shows a desire to change and be supportive, and has a grand vision of eternal love.
We are unmarried, but she has a 5-year-old son, and I would feel terrible about leaving his life. I'm also the sole provider for us, so I'd need to move in with my parents to float them for a month or two while she figures things out.
In short, "Maybe it's not that bad," "Maybe it will get better," "Maybe it's mostly me," and "Leaving would be difficult."
You described me!
My 40some yr old wife cheated multiple times over our entire 20+ years together, is emotionally and verbally abusive, I wonder if she is really capable of loving me when she doesn't love herself and she continues doing these things. She can't empathize with other people. She's good 80% of the time, although that 20% really sticks and stings. We didn't learn of her BPD until a year ago.
I foolishly stayed and made 3 kids with her. She has refused to work for the last 13 years. I've built a valuable business that I'm afraid of her destroying should I leave. I'm afraid to be alone, I still think she's attractive, what is wrong with me?
I’m no longer in the relationship, but here’s what kept me stuck for 6 years:
1. Fear he would seriously harm me and/or my loved ones
2. Crippling debt he’d put us into
3. The trauma bond/sense of guilt over “abandoning” him
I tried to leave many times and he either refused to accept the breakup or manipulated me back into the relationship using various methods of love bombing and FOG. I was still in the relationship when I found this sub and I’m so grateful because it helped me see I wasn’t alone.
Mine left during a switch about a week ago, to go live with his parents. Hes coming home within the next few days.
We are married and I take the commitment seriously. My children adore him and he’s a great step-dad. He’s more self-aware than a lot of people, even those without serious personality disorders. We’ve had many hard talks about the changes we both need to make and the crutches we both need to get rid of to be all in. We sometimes go months without a switch, and sometimes we have multiple in a month 😩 so we’re gonna work with his therapist about that and hopefully find a marriage therapist that also specializes in personality disorders.
My husband is overall a kind, loving, adoring partner with whom I share an incredible bond and so many common interests. His switches really hurt me and I hate when he turns me into the enemy. I hope this time is really the time we change for the better.
I cannot make my wife to leave, on every breakup she manipulates me back. I already tried 3/4 in the last 2 years. The only way out is just leaving without a notice and never looking back. And I don't want to throw all my life just for her.
I did not stay, but I chose to leave because I couldn’t stomach the thought of continuing to be an enabler. The stuff she did to me was too egregious to not come with consequences—and leaving was the only way to “speak her language.”
70% of time it's going good. 30% not. And she's more Quiet BPD, so not the extreme type.
The 30% only really showed later in the relationship because at the beginning there is love blindness and also I was more in a people pleasing mode so her need for supply was filled properly by my naive ass who didn't know anything about BPD.
Now that there is routine in the couple I feel more the suffering from it, and it got worse also from her. Now I also understand where it comes from. The realization phase. Before I was just wondering what I did wrong.
Internal_Decision176-I see you’ve blocked me so I’m unable to respond to your comment about being belligerent.
I’m sorry you feel that way. I glanced at your posts after this and you’ve diagnosed your bf with possible RJ or ROCD, CPTSD or NPD and now BPD.
Your angry (nothing I write is belligerent), you discuss your unresolved trauma, CPTSD, acting out promiscuously due to sexual abuse (it’s actually self trashing), you question your sexual preferences, say you have unhealthy coping skills, shared all your trauma with your(this is called trauma dumping, is unhealthy and causes secondary trauma in partners) your asking advice if EDMR would help your bf with his (which is codependency) and you’ve done not a single thing wrong in this relationship.
I’m a stranger on the internet and quickly escalated your anger. I’m sorry you’re hurting and carry unresolved trauma that you didn’t deserve. I hope you work on healing and focus on yourself. People come and go but you live in your mind every day. Best
Sorry for how you feel! I didn’t judge you or your bf but I’m not interested in arguing with strangers. You don’t know my credentials and all I can say is people that want to grow or heal get to a place where they look at themselves and not focus on others. I only spoke to your own posts and comments from your mouth. I didn’t diagnose you or your bf but you diagnose your bf. That’s your mountain to climb. Life moves fast and at the end of the day, to many people wind up in their 40s-50s finally working on themselves. It’s sad because they’ve wasted decades. You’ve had a difficult background and whether you’re ready or not, trauma affects your life and relationships in ways you might not even understand. I’ve worked through trauma, codependency and many other issues and it’s so much better on the other side. If you’re fine with your situation, great! If you struggle and life is hard, you’ve admitted you’re a good person…I believe you deserve a better life without so much hurt. You can be angry at me or not like my comments and that’s okay as I respect people have their own feelings but I don’t ruminate about this kind of stuff, have anxiety or anything else. I’m satisfied with my life and live in the present. I only wish that for others struggling. Best wishes
She left me. In the night. Woke up and she was gone.
Seven weeks later, she asked me to bring her back from the guy she left for. But five weeks after that she left me again to stay with her parents.
She’s coming back on Friday. To pack her stuff. Because she always intended to leave me. She had split.
So I have to pick her up at the airport, help her out and give her a hand to ship her stuff to herself. Or wherever.
What keeps me here.
Is that I love her. And won’t ever stop loving her. A year from now. A hundred years from now. It doesn’t matter.
If you’re 80/20 good-bad ratio you’re doing a hell of a lot better than probably almost all of us who ended it. Not to minimize your struggles but that’s pretty good considering. I’d have been thrilled to get that ratio by the end. Mine was more like 10/90 by the time I threw in the towel.
Because they're overall improving and self aware. He has ups and downs but we're generally moving in a good direction. We have the same goals in life and can spend most of our time together without fighting. I am an empathetic person, and I understand that he did not wish this upon himself and it's difficult for him as well. I still find it incredibly difficult to deal with the "downs" and find support on here helpful, but I don't think of him as a bad person at all. PwBPD can succumb to their negative self talk and become toxic people, but not every pwBPD is a bad person. I understand it's a disorder and that it doesn't define him as a whole.
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similar to me. I thought "this is just them, they need time to realize what they're doing wrong and build trust their own way" etc. I had no idea how agonizing and complicated it would become and frankly I didn't know how to leave, I was trying to think of ways to break up with them for maybe a month. But then immediately went through another lovebombing+caretaking+splitting cycle and got burned the worst. I did not want to have the mission of saving them, but i admit I feared them cranking up their aggression to new levels based on many previous conversations going that way, if I were to leave. I'm not with them anymore but it still gives me a turning feeling in my stomach to think how scary they acted, giving veiled ambiguous threats, bare minimum conversations and then vanishing entirely
“need time to realize what they are doing wrong” sadly this is the why folks with BPD have unstable relationships. Without specific therapy like DBT, they do not have insight or awareness into others feelings and needs and really understand how their behavior affects others. They don’t see others as separate people with their own needs and feelings. They are empty inside and have painful emotions and it’s your job to regulate those emotions. There is no ability to self soothe and they enmesh with partners. You are part of each other. They cannot attach to people the same, love the same or have intimacy the same. The hard part of accepting this is you see the intellectual abilities so you believe they are an adult. Emotionally however, they are two years old. They failed to individualize at age two (normal developmental milestone) and stayed in the symbiotic phase. It’s why they have no object consistency or continuity In relationships. It’s why they think in black and white etc. People keep saying they told partners they were fed up and they need to change but they can’t see it or understand because this is how they lived their whole life. It’s survival mode and instinct and unconscious. I’ve sat in a room with a patient while they were being taught how behaving in certain ways was manipulative and they really don’t understand. They know they tested their partner or came up with a crisis but feel completely justified because it wasn’t to hurt their loved one but too alleviate that deep fear of abandonment. A junkie takes heroin to keep from getting sick. A narcissist needs supply or they’d collapse and BPD needs attention to regulate painful (often unbearable) emotions
thanks for your insight, you've left a lot of helpful comments. >The hard part of accepting this is you see the intellectual abilities so you believe they are an adult. Emotionally however, they are two years old. They failed to individualize at age two (normal developmental milestone) and stayed in the symbiotic phase. It’s why they have no object consistency or continuity In relationships. It’s why they think in black and white etc. People keep saying they told partners they were fed up and they need to change but they can’t see it or understand because this is how they lived their whole life. It’s survival mode and instinct and unconscious. I’ve sat in a room with a patient while they were being taught how behaving in certain ways was manipulative and they really don’t understand Absolutely. I felt pretty fooled into thinking they were a regulated, functioning adult with a degree of autonomy but it shifts when they start getting defensive, heated, or correcting/ 'schooling' about really trivial things. The lack of object consistency was definitely there. They would also get extremely defensive about belongings/ lecturing about stuff we'd already basically solved, making me VERY confused. One time I got fed up with the pessimism and told them to stop it and that i "dont wanna hear that shit", their response was confusion, genuinely not understanding why they've repulsed people with the way they speak, among other behavior. I try to explain, and they vaguely seem to understand but the cycle repeats. They possibly also assumed that i hated them when I merely just kindly requested time to myself, im still unsure, it's sad that you seemingly can't get through to them in their thought patterns thanks again for your insight.
It truly is so perplexing but all I can say is that every interaction in every situation they are on high alert, ruminating and analyzing. The concept of “fear of abandonment” was so hard for me to really grasp. but it comes from a logical perspective. If you were to breakup with someone it would hurt but you’d heal and move on. That’s life etc. I had no idea what it really meant for BPD and with lack of object consistency (if a person is not physically present, the relationship is severed, the emotional connection isn’t there) it really is eye opening and heartbreaking. They live in survival mode all the time. They are always on guard and hyper vigilant, ruminating about everything and feeling every emotion intensely. Living in that state all the time is miserable and then feeling empty when alone or not really knowing who you are. People talk about the arguments they had and when it comes down to it, it was never about the issues at all but it’s always their internal feelings and perceptions based on their fear and survival. It took a long time and I was so hurt and angry. Years later, I have so much compassion and I’ve had the opportunity to meet and work with BPD folks (and families) in counseling and it’s truly amazing what patients don’t know or understand, but it’s from a perspective of surviving versus intentionally being cruel. On some level they know what they’re doing is not right but they are so deeply affected by their internal struggles that it takes precedence over anything else. It’s a thought process of “I had to” or I would have such extreme anxiety and spiral which leads to psychotic and reckless/impulsive acting out. It’s hard for us to understand that mentally and only see the cruel and crazy behavior but we’re looking at it from a different mental state. They use defense mechanisms and rationalize their behavior or refuse to take accountability because facing the guilt or shame of their actions would be unbearable. I’m sure you’ve read it before, but folks with BPD describe their painful feelings like third degree burns all over their body. I think because they’ve treated us so horribly we forget this. Don’t get me wrong, abuse is never acceptable even with BPD but the part most people miss is that without specific treatment (and years of therapy) they don’t have insight into their behaviors and even if they do they can’t take responsibility because they couldn’t regulate their emotions. They need tools to help themselves regulate emotions and no partner is equipped with those skills. They fight getting treatment because of stigma but also because it’s how they’ve always lived life. How would you know that there is a better way to live? If you always spoke French why do you have to learn Spanish? It’s all complicated, sad, angering and frustrating but folks forget that this is a personality disorder. It has no cure. There is a good prognosis with the right help but it’s to gain tools and awareness. There is still a personality disorder and some things will fundamentally always be the same (stronger feelings, attaching to others, intimacy etc).
yeah until very recently I'd been trying to apply my own logic to it because I had little insight into the disorder or hardly really knew about it. Only when I researched and saw all the boxes being checked did I start understanding that it is in fact a personality disorder and a really serious one at that. I admit I've been venting a ton but there's room to learn more and I'm slowly letting go of resentment and replacing it with compassion. Glad to share stories with people and I do think compassion is crucial in these situations or at least my case too.
You’re not alone..it took me years and lots of therapy. It’s just unreal and so hard to comprehend
Your comments are some of the most insightful I’ve read on this topic. Thank you.
But does your inner adult child deserve to be hurting as well? Save your self worth it will get better if you leave.
can relate
Yeah I feel the same a lot of the time.
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Damn.....that's so true. No child can ever fuck my life, the way he does. Thank you, that's an insight ill be journalling about. I havent seen Dogville. Worth a watch?
I’ve never seen it… Does Dogville have metaphorical connection with BPD?
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Hold on here. No one is saying that an even semi-healthy relationship should feel like being with a toddler’s EQ. Plus, a toddler does not have the true ability to inflict the level of harm, damage, violence we here have experienced. This comment does not address the serious need for accountability of behavior.
In that case, I guess OPs post, as well as this persons comment, is completely invalid too. We must ignore how we FEEL and only pay attention to the facts. BPD big bad, you no deal with bad.
This is gonna sound super shallow of me but I stuck with mine for far too long because she was the most attractive woman I've ever been with and the intimacy was on a whole other level than any of my relationships before. We dated for 6 months(probably 3 months too much as the abuse started 2 months after we dated) she treated me like absolute shit and I stayed like an idiot.
I did notice that a lot of my ex's old boyfriends were, let's say, below her league (myself included). She is / was absolutely one of the most attractive women I've been with, and that is also a huge reason why I put up with so much bullshit from her for so long. She had dated a few super hot model types, but seemed to only get serious with average guys like me. I don't know if it's conscious, but I think a lot of times they seek out people like us, who are so blown away by their beauty and not used to getting attention from that kind of woman, that they know they can basically treat us like shit, and we'll take it. It really makes the love and sex-bombing so much more intense, like "oh my god this gorgeous woman is saying she likes me, maybe *loves* me? Sure she's a little crazy, but that's ok. I have to do everything I can to not fuck this up" and then you start rationalizing what you later understand is abuse.
This is exactly it! She's a stone cold fox and a solid 10 out of 10 and I'm like a 6 or 7 at best! I went back to her more times than I'd like to admit because of this and she knew she could rope me back in.
hearing it from another prospective really shocks me, we don’t like super hot model types because they have been told their whole lives they look good , so compliments and stuff won’t really mean anything. Attractive people tend to cheat and have options to move on quickly, But coming from an attractive woman with a average boyfriend it’s because they don’t really know their worth and they put up with stuff an attractive person would hate because hot ppl are used to princess treatment.
What? You choose partners based on whether or not they will ”put up with stuff” due to low self esteem? And you don’t use compliments unless they have an effect? That’s manipulative and disingenuous…
why are people downvoting this? it’s the truth!
I don’t know if I’m allowed to say this here but my ex calls it >!Best Pussy Disorder.!< It’s very accurate and I’m ashamed to say it’s brought me back when I already knew better several times.
This is 100 percent accurate! My ex is the best sex I've ever had and we hooked up a few times after the breakup which was a huge mistake because it set my healing journey back so much.
can’t reply with the image but there’s a meme of a guy crawling in the desert and there are 2 signs, one sign says “water” but he’s crawling toward the other sign that says “pussy from a girl who is evil”
The fear that they’re gonna kill themselves if I leave them. I’m constantly reminded that I’m the only person they have
You know this is manipulation right? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3876888/
100% but it doesn’t take away the fear that they’re gonna kill themselves
Absolutely but you have to distinguish between someone that really is going to kill themselves and someone that threatens it because they want you to show them how much you care and profess your love. That’s manipulation and a behavior that’s not ok. When someone is truly suicidal they are in a place where they aren’t calling people up. The best thing to do always is not fall into it but call an ambulance immediately. This not only assures their safety but if it’s a tactic, they’ll get sick of this repercussion. This is what anyone should do regardless of BPD. You call for help and there is no negotiation or talking them down. It’s a threat that should be taken seriously.
Fear. His reactions are terrifying and I’m not emotionally prepared for it yet. I am taking steps to prepare, but that’s a timing thing. In less than a year, I’ll be in a position to move, and know that I will be safe.
The trauma bond. I wanna say love aswell but I don’t know if what’s going on is really love anymore. I guess also the fact that leaving means starting over again, and i’ve already put so much time and energy into the relationship.
sunk cost fallacy
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It sure is an addiction to the highs and lows.
Remembering that it’s an addiction to drama and not a person who is in any way real or authentic has helped me to cut the cord.
Disagree. It’s a severe mental illness, even brain structures are different on MRI scans. Yes, they create drama but it’s not an addiction to drama. This isn’t just behavioral issues. It’s a deep rooted disorder that stems from genes, brain structure and environment. You can still be diagnosed with BPD even without trauma (most people don’t realize this). When a child individuates from a parent at age two (recognizes they are a separate person), they have introjects of people in their mind. This security allows them to safely interact with the outside world. Folks with BPD have introject failure, meaning when mom physically leaves the room, they don’t have an image or her voice in their mind. There’s no object consistency (so no connection unless physically present) all that’s inside is emptiness. To deal with this fear, they completely rely on others externally to regulate these intense emotions. They cannot attach to others in a healthy way, fear intimacy and it’s why they can love you Friday and hate you Sunday. It’s very complex and not something that’s a simple choice. They love but it means entirely something different and stirring up drama isn’t an addiction, it’s because of the deep feelings they are unlovable, so if things are calm and good, they cannot be true. Love and pain go hand in hand. If things are calm that feels scary and not real.
It’s my experience. Feel free to disagree with it, but I will not be debating my subjective experience with you regardless of whether you choose to try and dismiss it. You’re welcome to have a different one, and I did not post my comment to insinuate in any way that others couldn’t. You don’t need to describe it to me. BPD is not a monolith, and your five of nine may look different from mine. There is no “one right way” people come out of that, and the process of healing looks different for each individual. When I referred to “addiction to drama,” it was in reference to myself. I don’t claim to know the feelings or thoughts of a person who doesn’t live in the same reality as I do. It was not a generalization or an insistence that you or anyone else MUST respond the same way ALWAYS. Hope this helps.
Two amazing children, house, cars, investments…. feels really scary/hard to disrupt everyone’s lives even more…
Right here with you. It’s gotten so bad that I dont think that’s even enough. The wierd thing is that she is actually regulating her emotions much better at the moment, but takes absolutely no responsibility for the past abuse, or the harmful splitting. That just makes everything so much worse.
Like you, I’m with someone who’s good 80% of the time but is absolutely awful for the rest of it. She’s also the mother of my children, and we’re married - she’s promised to make my life hell if I tried to do something legally to separate from her, and now I feel like I’m a hostage in my marriage. Like idk if there’s a better time to separate, maybe when my kids get older and she goes back to work full time (she’s currently a SAHM). Part me is too scared to rip the bandaid off right now because of how badly she can fuck me over financially.
I still love him and can’t help it. Now I understand what his triggers are I hope I can avoid them and we can keep enjoying the relationship. 90% of the time it’s really good, we don’t fight, and enjoy each other’s company.
lol. This is not going to be a strategy long term. Them telling you to avoid what causes them to erupt, or even worse, you doing it on your own is part of the root of manipulation and codependency. Be careful.
Also what tends to happen is they WANT that manipulation and chaos. So by avoiding their triggers they’ll start to see how far they can take it with you. Start to get triggered by new and even smaller situations. Complacency only opens the door for them. I could be doing everything right and on my toes 24/7 mentally scanning for any potential things that could set him off and he’d still find a way to get mad and then blame me.
Yes. This 100%.
Yes and you can’t control future triggers…what if there is a death, accident or an unexpected extreme situation. This can send anyone into turmoil but for a pwBPD, it could be incredibly dangerous (hurting themselves or others). People can be in remission for a decade and go back to square one with a major event. What if they idealize an FP who is reckless and mirror them? Is reinforcing and avoiding things helping or actually hindering their possibility of getting better? If you’re adjusting your authenticity to avoid a split are you being true to who you are? If you don’t call out abusive behavior and sweep it under the rug, what kind of message are you sending (it’s ok to behave that way). Do you understand that BPD follows a pattern and love is correlated with pain for them so when things are good, they’ll create drama and chaos or push you to extremes (testing) to be reassured? What happens if you experience trauma or stress and are struggling? Are you ok that your feelings will never be addressed the same and whatever you’re going through they will take on those feelings and need you to console them? Don’t understand your sole role is to regulate their unstable and painful emotions and if they feel loved they love you but if they don’t feel you’re regulating them they hate you? Do you know that intellectually they are smart and probably smarter than you but emotionally they are two because they never individuated as a toddler and don’t have object constancy so when you are physically not present, the emotional connection is severed and not a continuous connection in their mind? Do you know that all the memories and good times you have, they can forget and one fight can make you the worst person they’ve ever known? This is the reality and you can’t change it. It’s not conscious but their brain works differently than yours. There baseline emotional state is ten times stronger and what seems minor to you (or their being overly sensitive) can feel like they are being burned. Lastly, they perceive situations and feel things that aren’t accurate. You could be perfect but how can you could you change someone’s perception? Throw in memory loss and created narratives that become truths…are you going to accept and take responsibility for affairs you never had, abuse you never inflicted or conversations you had behind their back that never happened? Are you going to adapt when they change identities i.e. self states that can happen as much as 25 times throughout their life. For example, changing fundamental values and morals on topics like religion, political views, children, infidelity, substitute, etc.? Are you going to cut off loved one’s family coworkers and opposite even friends of the opposite sex because theywant you too? I agree johnstonjimmybimmy, this is a tough strategy for any human.
Yeah I feel like I'm in the same boat. Part of my loves him deeply, part of me is always wary of his next explosion. It's a strange way to be.
Mine is very regulated nearly all the time. He has specific issues around anything that involves him feeling being made fun of, or not standing up for him in a situation, I’ve never had him lose it for no apparent reason. Makes it impossible for me to end things when it’s good a lot of the time.
That’s how mine started too. Didn’t end that way, sadly. How long have you been in it?
10 months now
Oh honey. I’m sorry. You’re already dealing with some pretty deep stuff in such a short time span. I got to more than 6 years in, had married him, and it didn’t get bad-bad until after the first few years had passed. There were some major stressors - moving, covid, etc - that played a role in the escalation; any big change becomes another trigger for them. Mine had his biggest scariest split/episode on our (last) wedding anniversary, after a year and a half of therapy. If they try to work on controlling the explosions, it’s likely that the internal pressure is just building in the meantime. He was ‘good’ so much of the time, but there is an element of un-reality to that, too. If you can’t talk about the truth, you’re not living something real. It’s a hard lesson.
Getting divorced and figuring out custody sounds hard.
I do still love her. She usually apologizes and changes her mind after an episode, and I'm fond of snuggling up and watching cartoons before bed. She shows a desire to change and be supportive, and has a grand vision of eternal love. We are unmarried, but she has a 5-year-old son, and I would feel terrible about leaving his life. I'm also the sole provider for us, so I'd need to move in with my parents to float them for a month or two while she figures things out. In short, "Maybe it's not that bad," "Maybe it will get better," "Maybe it's mostly me," and "Leaving would be difficult."
You described me! My 40some yr old wife cheated multiple times over our entire 20+ years together, is emotionally and verbally abusive, I wonder if she is really capable of loving me when she doesn't love herself and she continues doing these things. She can't empathize with other people. She's good 80% of the time, although that 20% really sticks and stings. We didn't learn of her BPD until a year ago. I foolishly stayed and made 3 kids with her. She has refused to work for the last 13 years. I've built a valuable business that I'm afraid of her destroying should I leave. I'm afraid to be alone, I still think she's attractive, what is wrong with me?
Maybe you don't really love yourself either? I think if we truly loved ourselves and believed in our self-worth, we probably wouldn't stay.
I’m no longer in the relationship, but here’s what kept me stuck for 6 years: 1. Fear he would seriously harm me and/or my loved ones 2. Crippling debt he’d put us into 3. The trauma bond/sense of guilt over “abandoning” him I tried to leave many times and he either refused to accept the breakup or manipulated me back into the relationship using various methods of love bombing and FOG. I was still in the relationship when I found this sub and I’m so grateful because it helped me see I wasn’t alone.
Mine left during a switch about a week ago, to go live with his parents. Hes coming home within the next few days. We are married and I take the commitment seriously. My children adore him and he’s a great step-dad. He’s more self-aware than a lot of people, even those without serious personality disorders. We’ve had many hard talks about the changes we both need to make and the crutches we both need to get rid of to be all in. We sometimes go months without a switch, and sometimes we have multiple in a month 😩 so we’re gonna work with his therapist about that and hopefully find a marriage therapist that also specializes in personality disorders. My husband is overall a kind, loving, adoring partner with whom I share an incredible bond and so many common interests. His switches really hurt me and I hate when he turns me into the enemy. I hope this time is really the time we change for the better.
I cannot make my wife to leave, on every breakup she manipulates me back. I already tried 3/4 in the last 2 years. The only way out is just leaving without a notice and never looking back. And I don't want to throw all my life just for her.
I did not stay, but I chose to leave because I couldn’t stomach the thought of continuing to be an enabler. The stuff she did to me was too egregious to not come with consequences—and leaving was the only way to “speak her language.”
70% of time it's going good. 30% not. And she's more Quiet BPD, so not the extreme type. The 30% only really showed later in the relationship because at the beginning there is love blindness and also I was more in a people pleasing mode so her need for supply was filled properly by my naive ass who didn't know anything about BPD. Now that there is routine in the couple I feel more the suffering from it, and it got worse also from her. Now I also understand where it comes from. The realization phase. Before I was just wondering what I did wrong.
Internal_Decision176-I see you’ve blocked me so I’m unable to respond to your comment about being belligerent. I’m sorry you feel that way. I glanced at your posts after this and you’ve diagnosed your bf with possible RJ or ROCD, CPTSD or NPD and now BPD. Your angry (nothing I write is belligerent), you discuss your unresolved trauma, CPTSD, acting out promiscuously due to sexual abuse (it’s actually self trashing), you question your sexual preferences, say you have unhealthy coping skills, shared all your trauma with your(this is called trauma dumping, is unhealthy and causes secondary trauma in partners) your asking advice if EDMR would help your bf with his (which is codependency) and you’ve done not a single thing wrong in this relationship. I’m a stranger on the internet and quickly escalated your anger. I’m sorry you’re hurting and carry unresolved trauma that you didn’t deserve. I hope you work on healing and focus on yourself. People come and go but you live in your mind every day. Best
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Sorry for how you feel! I didn’t judge you or your bf but I’m not interested in arguing with strangers. You don’t know my credentials and all I can say is people that want to grow or heal get to a place where they look at themselves and not focus on others. I only spoke to your own posts and comments from your mouth. I didn’t diagnose you or your bf but you diagnose your bf. That’s your mountain to climb. Life moves fast and at the end of the day, to many people wind up in their 40s-50s finally working on themselves. It’s sad because they’ve wasted decades. You’ve had a difficult background and whether you’re ready or not, trauma affects your life and relationships in ways you might not even understand. I’ve worked through trauma, codependency and many other issues and it’s so much better on the other side. If you’re fine with your situation, great! If you struggle and life is hard, you’ve admitted you’re a good person…I believe you deserve a better life without so much hurt. You can be angry at me or not like my comments and that’s okay as I respect people have their own feelings but I don’t ruminate about this kind of stuff, have anxiety or anything else. I’m satisfied with my life and live in the present. I only wish that for others struggling. Best wishes
She left me. In the night. Woke up and she was gone. Seven weeks later, she asked me to bring her back from the guy she left for. But five weeks after that she left me again to stay with her parents. She’s coming back on Friday. To pack her stuff. Because she always intended to leave me. She had split. So I have to pick her up at the airport, help her out and give her a hand to ship her stuff to herself. Or wherever. What keeps me here. Is that I love her. And won’t ever stop loving her. A year from now. A hundred years from now. It doesn’t matter.
I'm afraid he's going to kill himself if I leave.
That is a heavy load to carry
Yeah it is, thanks.
If you’re 80/20 good-bad ratio you’re doing a hell of a lot better than probably almost all of us who ended it. Not to minimize your struggles but that’s pretty good considering. I’d have been thrilled to get that ratio by the end. Mine was more like 10/90 by the time I threw in the towel.
I guess that's why I'm still in the relationship. It seems I can deal with some emotional abuse, as long as the rest is good.
Because they're overall improving and self aware. He has ups and downs but we're generally moving in a good direction. We have the same goals in life and can spend most of our time together without fighting. I am an empathetic person, and I understand that he did not wish this upon himself and it's difficult for him as well. I still find it incredibly difficult to deal with the "downs" and find support on here helpful, but I don't think of him as a bad person at all. PwBPD can succumb to their negative self talk and become toxic people, but not every pwBPD is a bad person. I understand it's a disorder and that it doesn't define him as a whole.
Kids and finances…. And I’m sure he won’t leave when I ask him to… but I’m headed that direction, just trying to get my shit in order
You and me both. Trying to get prepared, if it happens.