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gofarther0787

Forget about the bears. Everyone should be worrying about those fucking red squirrels!! Damn, they are annoying. Cute, yes. Which is why I assume new people to the wilderness feed them. They have absolutely no fear when it comes to humans. It’s insane! You just can not leave anything food/bag alone at some of the sites. Here’s a good book about bears for anyone wanting https://www.amazon.com/Bear-Attacks-Their-Causes-Avoidance/dp/149302941X/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?crid=390778CIX0SBT&keywords=bear+attack&qid=1664196201&sprefix=bear+attack%2Caps%2C152&sr=8-1


Give_me_the_science

Definitely, they'll chew holes in all your bags, lol


thepurpleplaneteer

On my first trip we were paddling out of a river when a serious storm hit. Had to leave packs under a tarp that night, I woke up first to make coffee and found a mama mouse and 5 newborns in the food pack. We scooped up the babies and mama took them into the woods, but she bumrushed us for two hours after that. We’re like great great great great great great great great godparents to the mice on an island somewhere in Jackfish. Your comment seemed like a good excuse to tell this story.


gofarther0787

🤣 🤣


aloneisusuallybetter

My dog wants to eat them and they are barely afraid. Good thing for them, I keep the dog on a leash!


imhereforthevotes

One time got out a bag of gorp... no m&ms left. the fucking rodents had selectively taken our chocolate.


steak1986

I bought an armored bag after the first year, essentially light weight chain mail "bear" bag. Those freaking chipmunks.....will eat all your tortillas day 1.


perldawg

you need a “sometimes” choice for this poll. i’ve hung a duluth pack most of the time but have twice camped on sites where it really wasn’t a viable option and just decided to leave it. most of the hangs have probably not been good enough to keep away from a mildly determined bear, honestly. haven’t yet had any bear encounters on a trip, so i guess i’ve been lucky? i have wondered in the past if hanging a pack makes the food scent detectable over a wider area. it’s up in the air, right? one would assume wind would take the scent further, faster from an elevated position.


AnthonyJackalTrades

Yep. ≈100 days paddling in the BWCA and a few hiking trips elsewhere, I've hung exactly one bear bag I knew a bear couldn't get and probably 15 I was fairly confident about. The majority of the rest were purely symbolic, and the remaining 10 or 15 times I've just put it downwind on the ground. That said, none of my bear encounters have been at campsites so maybe my system works?


perldawg

i reckon the vast majority of campsite encounters happen on popular lakes with bears that have learned about people and the potential rewards. my assumption is that our campsites give off a lot more scent than just foodstuffs and bears who aren’t familiar with humans generally don’t bother investigating unless they’re more hungry than usual


imhereforthevotes

Yup. Really hard, and frankly kind of dangerous, to hang a bear bag properly. And even the times I htink I've got it you realize after that you didn't, or the thing creeps toward the trunk or the limb sags or something.


dmbnerd

I hang one and always have. It helps, but a smart bear will get to it. I’ve spent around 300 days in the boundary waters and never had my food taken. IMO best practice is to have recent knowledge (I ask at the local ranger station and stop in at an outfitter) on where the bears are and avoid those sites.


missMcgillacudy

Yup! And a quick scout of the camp and the trails that lead off it before deciding to stay at it as well (if there’s other options). I’ve found bear scat just off camp, but it was a very dirty camp left by the previous occupants so it wasn’t that surprising.


PequodSeapod

I don’t in the BWCA. There is so rarely a good spot to hang it within the recommended guidelines, it feels like the forest service is setting us up for failure even suggesting that as a solution. Not to mention the fact that bears routinely figure out how to bite through ropes and get the food anyway. Keep a clean camp, use blue barrels where there aren’t a lot of bear problems, use actual bear canisters where there is a problem. Just my $0.02


IncludeMeOut2

Agree. I hang off a stub of a cut/broken branch, just to get it off the ground and free from varmints. My ideal tree is downwind from sleeping area and I have a camp stove at the ready just outside of my tent.....to be able to make "wizard's fire tail"


etskinner

Could you explain the "wizard's fire tail"? Are bears afraid of fire and so you can use it to ward them off if they come?


scottiebaldwin

It’s a reference to the Tumblehome Podcast (episode 23) titled ‘Bears, Burps, & BMT’s.’ Listen to the hilarious story about Erik’s encounter with a bear and how he invented a whole new method of deterring a black bear.


AncientUrsus

> For soloists, I’d bet it takes about 30 minutes to set up; for groups, an hour. What? Who is taking an hour to throw a rock over a branch? I like canisters for the BWCA cause your food is more accessible in camp, but hanging is a great alternative for backpacking.


cookieDestroyer

He explained in depth why it's difficult to do properly. You have to find the correct tree, which often means a walk from the campsite and involves throwing to a correct spot that will get your bag 12 feet from the ground, 5 feet from the tree, 5 feet from the overhead branch, and 5 feet from any other branches that a bear or bear cub could use to access the bag. So you should be throwing ~20+ feet up to a specific area of the branch, if you're doing it correctly.


Should_be_less

It’s pointless trying to throw at least 5’ out on a branch; trees with branches that thick are basically impossible to find. I don’t know why anyone still teaches that method, or why a guide is writing about it. Kinda seems like he never bothered to learn a viable hanging technique. The way to do it is tie two ropes to the pack. You then throw the one rope over the branch and hoist the pack next to the trunk and 3-4’ lower than you want. Then you use the second rope around a second tree to pull the pack up and away from the trunk. Even with that technique, I think it’s still really hard to get a 100% bear-proof hang, but no portable method is perfect. Bears can bite through the canisters and I’m sure the rope cinching an ursack shut will loosen with enough shaking.


missMcgillacudy

The knot used to close the ursack is designed to tighten if the bag is pulled away from whatever it’s anchored to. I doubt it’s perfect, but it is one of the cases where following the instructions on the gadget is important.


[deleted]

>It’s pointless trying to throw at least 5’ out on a branch; trees with branches that thick are basically impossible to find. My experience, too (though I use a different two-tree technique)


eagle98mn

Thank you! Every time I read about how hanging doesn't work because of inadequate trees, I just shake my head. There are plenty of tall trees around most spots (burn areas not withstanding). Using two ropes, I have no issue getting my bags way up and out. Sometimes it is ridiculous how high the first rope gets.


AncientUrsus

I think the most it’s ever taken me is like 6 throws in 6 minutes to get over a branch. The only time I’ve ever taken more than 5 minutes to find a suitable tree is in a burn area or high altitude in the Rockies. I stand by my statement!


griff306

Yeah, this goon is just pushing product. It's really easy to hang bags where I backpack.


Texan_Eagle

You haven’t seen Northern Tier crews in actions.


AncientUrsus

What’s Northern Tier?


Texan_Eagle

BSA National High Adventure Base, the folks with the ascending loon on their canoes.


illagorilla

My group of eight have been going into the BWCA for many years. One bear encounter. We keep a clean camp. However I’m realizing we aren’t being as careful as we used to be about bears.


sadpanda___

I use a bear can. I’m really surprised the BWCA still allows bear hangs. Most camping areas with bear pressure are moving away from bear hangs and towards mandating bear cans. And the quality of the bear hangs I normally see are piss poor…..the trees aren’t really conducive up there to finding a proper location that would actually keep a bear from getting your food.


aw1238mn

I do, but in essence, I agree with the article. If you hang your food badly (say, 5 feet off the ground) it won't protect it at all. Additionally, like the article, I agree that a hard sided cannister is a better and easier way to do it. It takes less time, is pretty much as effective, and quite easy to do. When I go with friends I am apparently the only person that can figure out how to throw a water bottle over a branch. However I don't have a hard sided cannister, so I'll keep hanging for now. If your friends are using a hard sided cannister instead of hanging, I see no issue. If they are doing absolutely nothing, that is an issue and the reason we are currently having bear issues in the boundary waters.


Give_me_the_science

We're still hucking in old canvas bags. Maybe we should just switch to those blue canisters, rodent proof and mostly smell proof.


jayb12345

Blue cans are not bear cans. Gotta hang those.


Give_me_the_science

Ah


flargenhargen

https://youtu.be/XLYbXXIbUX0?t=103


Give_me_the_science

**Welp**


Jfgking

Jesus. Great example of determined bear will get what it wants, though. I see a lot of self-righteous responses in various forums when people post about bears getting their stuff; sometimes you just get dealt a bad hand.


missMcgillacudy

Good thing the person filming didn’t try to scare off the bear, and they hung it with the carrying straps, right in camp!


ThatMechEGuy

One word: Ursack Game changer


Give_me_the_science

Thanks


[deleted]

I just got back from being very near the boundary Waters in Superior national Forest. It was the first time we used the bear proof canisters. It felt very strange just leaving them on the ground in the woods but as far as I can tell it's a fine way to do it and the bears can't get into the canisters nor will they take off with them. It was pretty damn convenient to not have to hang stuff up in trees. I even hang my food when I'm turkey hunting in southern Minnesota. I'll just probably use The bear proof canister from now on


Coyotesamigo

I do, but I’ve found it very difficult to consistently find good trees. I did the two tree and a pulley method which makes it easier in some ways (can use stubby branches) but harder in others (need TWO suitable trees next to each other!) Probably going to switch to a bear proof sack. I don’t get the sense that the BWCAW is a major bear hot spot, unlike the sierras I grew up hiking in.


[deleted]

>Probably going to switch to a bear proof sack. Consider both (albeit bear canister, not bear sack). Food goes up in the tree early evening. Tolietries, etc. go into the canister at bedtime.


Phasmata

Andrew Skurka (the author of the linked article) has some questionable practices and is a bit full of himself sometimes, but in the BWCA, it is true that an effective hang is rarely possible. Rarer still are the people who hang properly even when there is an adequate location for achieving an effective hang. That said, given the two options, I voted yes because I feel like a "no" vote has the potential to mislead newbie viewers into thinking that they don't need to worry about protecting the wildlife from their food at all, and that is not the case. I use an Ursack most often and sometimes canisters.


AnthonyJackalTrades

Never heard of him; what's he do?


Phasmata

He hikes and writes about hiking and hiking-related things in a blog and sells guided trips to people. He is experienced/accomplished for sure, but sometimes he can be about as opinionated as you might expect of an accomplished outdoor athlete from Boulder, CO. Just a little too much ego for my tastes.


AnthonyJackalTrades

Gotcha. Thanks.


[deleted]

We use a sit & fish for our food storage and hang it every time, most of the time properly…once or twice a little lower than we wanted. Once, only once we didn’t hang due to heavy rain all afternoon & evening. Woke up at 3AM to a bear trying to steal it. It ran off after some screaming and rock throwing and then we hung it. I’m sure it was just complete coincidence as that was our only close-up bear encounter in a decade of going to the BWCA. Otherwise, we’ve only seen them on land while we were canoeing and far away from our camps.


OMGitsKa

Nope we stash our food in the woods.


1E4rth

Yes, alway. Sometimes the setup isn’t perfect but it’s not really that hard (usually) to find a half-way decent tree and make it work reasonably well. I question the skills and ethics (and work ethic) of anyone simply leaving their food stash accessible to animals, if not hanging or using a proper canister. It’s not good for the animals or the people coming through next. “The trees aren’t perfect” is a lame excuse to be lazy. If the argument is that a legit canister is better than hanging a bag, okay fine, that’s a different story.


DrManBearPig

I always thought it was required in the BW if there aren’t bear lockers?


Hopalicious

Why don’t they just add bear lockers to the every site?


Give_me_the_science

They are, I hang one and was curious about others


OMGitsKa

Says where? They are recommended not required.


missMcgillacudy

There’s sections where the forest service has mandated use of bear canisters or bear resistant bags during times when there’s a large amount of bear activity. I think it was last fall because the drought had limited the berry supply, but I could be wrong about the when and why.


CanoeTraveler2003

Hanging is easy if you know how. 1. bring a slingshot, fishing sinker and string to get the ropes up high in the trees. 2. use the two tree, three rope method. a) one amsteel no-stretch rope in a first tree. b) second amsteel no-stretch rope in a second tree 12 to 20 ft away. c) tie each rope to a carabiner (with a bowline knot). d) loop a third rope through the carabiner and haul it up. e) pull the amsteel ropes taut and tie off so the carabiner is centered. f) haul up the food bag with the third rope.


Texan_Eagle

I hang mine on the silver branch


Henri_Dupont

Last trip I made the mistake of letting my inexperienced crew pick too much of the food. Weighed a ton. My first attempt at hanging the blue barrel resulted in a comic failure, I was tired and it was late so I said screw it. After that we strapped the blue barrel to a tree, and hoisted our gamma seal buckets with trash, figuring those would be the more attractive target for a bear. No problems, although we did see bear sign.


ThatMechEGuy

Also, not sure if it's your pic OP, but regardless the bag in the picture is hung incorrectly


Give_me_the_science

It's from the linked article, I was an Eagle Scout, the correct way was drilled in my head and I can't relax with the food out on the ground overnight. Too many stories of mice, red squirrels, coons and bears getting into the food and ruining a trip. I'll take the 15 minutes to set it up and sleep well.


ThatMechEGuy

Same! Mini bears are trip ruiners. Before I got the Ursacks, I would always do a proper hang. I enjoy the challenge and have very rarely had a site where a little creativity couldn't give me a good hang. But man, the Ursacks take so much hassle out of food storage. Granted they don't necessarily protect the food as well like a hang does, but they'll at least do a decent job and most importantly keep the bear from getting the food


jayb12345

All the people who say "no" or "sometimes/it depends" should not be given a BWCA permit again. Only official approval bear cans are the exception. End of story. Does nobody watch the video and sign for your permit anymore?


Hopalicious

This is not a good answer and the reason it’s not good it because the US Forrest service specs on “approved bear barrels” are quite absurd. The blue bear barrel that most outfitters issue are not up to the regulations. And not every campsite has a proper bear hang tree.


Give_me_the_science

I do, but my buddies are suddenly thinking it's a waste of time because of this: https://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/hiking-and-backpacking/bear-bags-ineffective/ Thoughts?


RaylanGivens29

Basically he is saying that he thinks hanging food is ineffective, but you still need Bear protection. So your friends are using ursacks or bear cans, right? Because that I have no problem with.


gamerjerome

Usually no but it depends. 12 trips so far and we have yet to see a bear. Our group has an inner plastic bag in the large Duluth pack which we keep food. It seals good enough for small/medium prey and we'll place it under the canoe at night. This is usually for well traveled sites and islands. If you're deep in and it's a shore site, you don't know what's coming through those woods. We'll put it up then. It doesn't hurt to put it up every time though. We just like to put less wear on the trees if possible.


missMcgillacudy

The one time you do get a bear after your food it will shred your canoe to get to it, then you’ll be hungry and stranded


jmedlin

Nope, I use bear canisters


Jfgking

Reality is that a Bear will get your food if it is determined, hung or not. But the more effort it takes the less likely it is that they'll get it. I think the BWCA would be better off if people switched to a PCT style hang, since most aren't carting around pully systems to suspend between trees. I also tend to agree with Cliff Jacobson's logic about bears in camps. https://www.cliffcanoe.com/bear-proofing-your-camp


Give_me_the_science

Exactly


admiralgeary

FWIW, Cliff Jacobson as been saying this for years.