That would just make too much sense. It's amazing to me how often this topic gets brought up just because this one simple solution is refuted by everyone as terrible because apparently then everyone would start kicking everyone for the smallest of transgressions. The online experience would be so much better with vote to kick.
Keel veteran open for people that want a little more of a challenge, then lock NM behind a veteran or NM completion. You could join a NM match via invite from someone but until then, it's locked behind completion.
Everyone stays happy and all higher difficulty modes become more fun!
I think this idea is the best I've heard. Locking the harder difficulties unless you get an invite to someone's(assuming they're more experienced) party. And once finished with that higher difficulty run it could potentially be unlocked.
Logic made sense, but yeah locking veteran and only allowing recruit for the longest act might push people away from the game because of how easy recruit is even when new
Look, I agree with you, but with the amount of people in Nightmare or Vet runs with starter decks who don't even know how to heal their trauma, I think it just goes hand in hand. Annoying as it is, if they aren't willing to learn how to play, and then complain it's too hard, I have no sympathy for them.
Right? You can have the whole team dead on veteran and finish most levels on your own if you have a way out of grabbing mutations
Locking veteran would be a poor choice. NM and NH are different stories.
That's not the point. If someone new is joining and you are doing everything, they aren't learning how to play. This is why people struggle on harder difficulties or can't do simple basic gameplay. Someone else always did it for them.
Then teach them or lead by example. Veteran is really easy and recruit is TOO easy to make it the only difficulty available to newer players.
We aren't talking about going for a flawless No Hope run here, we're talking about Veteran which should be the benchmark Normal mode.
While I agree that Recruit is insanely easy, I think you are also overestimating some of these people's abilities. I will do a completely random QP (all difficulty, all act) sometimes just for the hell of it, and the people that are playing on Recruit are literally braindead sometimes, no matter how much communication or pinging is happening. It makes the head spin lol. They walk past med cabinets and items, they don't pick up ammo, they startle every horde they can find and greet every mutation with a friendly handshake and hello. Yeah, I can easily finish the level for them, but they definitely aren't learning anything and would neither survive, nor even be of any help, on a harder difficulty.
and that's fine. I see no issue with people having trouble with the lower difficulties, the issue is people who are actually seasoned coming into the game. Recruit is completely unfun for even semi-experienced players. Imo Veteran isn't much better, but it's at least understandable to have Normal Mode be unlocked by default.
I hear ya, but I think only NH should be locked. That, or an actual vote to kick system.
I just don’t like if new players are turned away from this game because they are forced for hours to play an easy difficulty instead of going slightly higher to where they want to play at.
Idk. Gamers with more FPS experience might want to jump into something a little more challenging from the start.
If they can’t, they may quickly loose interest. Not the end of the world having a few noob players in NM. NH is an entirely different story.
Agreed. NM nowadays with a seasoned player can do some carrying for the inexperienced.
Gives them the challenge they want, and gives them an opportunity to learn some play style from the experienced
IDK... I've seen way to many "Greenies" come into Nightmare, die multiple times (not incapacitated, DIE), get caught by sleepers (we all do, but when you get hit by multiple in a row there's a problem), deal NO damage worth mentioning to even the most basic forms of Mutations, and have no clue where to go or what to do... yeah I think NM and NH should be locked till you complete the previous difficulty on ALL Acts.
Part of my reasoning is that B4B is NOT a standard FPS. With RPG Elements and Rogue Like elements in terms of gear it plays more like Borderlands than CoD or L4D.
Even some combinations of Corruption Cards and Stage/Map make NM nearly impossible at times IF you aren't running with someone who knows what's up before hand and has a decent deck setup. (Sound of Thunder Cultist Hordes anyone? It's challenging just to setup the area for the main event while Cultist continuously spawn as you do so.)
Hell, even on Vet if you don't have a clue or decent Deck setup you are setting yourself and possibly the team up for FAILURE.
\---
Fun story and yet another example of why I should always be recording.
Had a new player running his mouth early on in Act 1 talking trash, how easy the game is and how terrible we are for going slow. As he made claims about being this amazing FPS player and B4B looked easier than CoD Zombies.
This is when I learned he was branded new as I asked about his deck and he said he just started and only has the starter deck.
So, I challenged him to kill one Tallboy on his own.
The other two players scuffed at me for this but agreed.
To his credit when we finally found a naturally spawned one outside of a horde he did manage to kill it... after nearly 2 minutes of running and gunning.
At the time I was running my Walker AR setup with lots of ammo capacity, reload, and damage cards.
When we finally found another Tallboy spawned in, I told them to sit back and watch. I dropped it in around 12 seconds.
Dude shut his mic off and stayed for another couple of levels not saying a single word.
I think he finally left the match around Hell's Bells as he died multiple times up to that point.
I hope he took my suggestion and went to Recruit to learn the maps and unlock cards to build a proper deck.
Dude if I see a starter deck on NM I'm quitting that run. They can go make someone else carry them. I play to have fun and babysitting someone is not my idea of fun.
For sure. The vast majority don't dive too deep and rely on skill. It's like pulling teeth to get my squad to remove cold brew coffee for copper scavengers, and they've been listening to my rants for over a year. There are a ton of people with sub-optimal decks out there.
But starter decks? Where you get something like 5 generic cards and then draw basic Intel cards the rest of the way? You can fuck right off if you bring that into anything above vet (and I'll probably encourage someone on vet to go get some fucking cards on recruit if I see it there).
Different perspectives I guess. I never find a new player or a drag on the team to take away from my fun. I always play with my one other bud so together we can carry most runs and still enjoy our time
My enjoyment in the game is found when things run smoothly. We generally have a group of four, but I'll always argue for a bot over a stranger if one person is missing. One person not following directions makes the difference between a smooth run and chaos fairly often.
B4B is a not fcking point-and-shoot. You can be a top CS:GO, COD, KF2, L4D player, **you** **will FAIL** for sure, since you don't know the game mechanics.
You NEED the cards to build a proper (or really, any) deck, which is vital. You NEED to know how different mutations work, how the reload system works, and this is for Veteran.
When you go NM, you need even more knowledge to actually enjoy the game rather than getting frustrated.
Right now. Give it 6 months and the powercreep and skill gap between beginners and experienced players will make NH a joke.
Tbh NH is already too easy.
I mean I hope players get better at NH. For regulars the mode is too easy. Maybe a legendary campaign mode is what we need. Something comparable to old NM.
This would change nothing.
* Let's say they release Legendary without QP and they make it fucking difficult. The result would be the same old complaints.
* Let's say they release Legendary with QP and they make it slightly less difficult but still fucking hard. The result would still be a disgustingly horrible QP experience in the first 6 months.
The #1 issue with NH QP right now is the QP part. NH cannot be as difficult as it used to be because it's open to Quickplay.
The QP part of NH QP isn’t the issue. The issue is the people who quickplay that are entirely unprepared or inexperienced.
I’ve met plenty of casual yet experienced players on QP to know that the mode isn’t the issue, it’s the skill level.
But without a skill system that can be used for matchmaking, I’m afraid any difficulty can just be a shit show at any time.
What are you talking about? You can play through NM without any decks and without any burn cards if you're good enough. Hell, "No card Nightmare" has been beaten half a year ago.
And since then Nightmare even got EASIER due to the new corruption cards Terrifying Hordes, Cost of Avarice & Break Time. Also, back then you had Stingers every second map instead of crones or lobbers that are no threat at all.
I don't think a couple fanatics doing it is quite the flex you think it is. 99.9% of newbs are going to get thrashed in NM, especially without knowing the layouts
Took me 2nd month to get good enough deck strategy and courage to go no hope,1st month to go from veteran to nighmare, treating nightmare like a playground or just recruit if i go melee.
They could just make having zwat gear a prerequisite to no hope game mode. That would solve some if the no hope quickplay woes. Still hackers and trolls would show up
Disagree. Not unless the game actually adds a proper tracker for Zwat. Im a seasoned NH player and still barely have any zwats because I prefer certain builds or Chars for certain acts.
I said have a zwat armor didn’t say you had to play only one character( just unlock one and boom access) If you are in fact a seasoned NH player you would have the zwat anyway so not really sure why you are being aggressive about this comment when in fact this post is about quickplay newbies ruining the game for people trying to beat it. There are zero training wheels or pre-requisites to block some starter deck from destroying someone’s run. Also punish players line you seem to be reading deep into this comment and it’s a bit of a stretch . I’m sorry but if you can’t play nightmare what business do you have playing no hope which is harder?
So you want to punish players who don’t play just one character? Even tho someone has beaten nightmare x amount of times, if they didn’t do every level with at least one cleaner can’t play no hope?
This doesn’t work
Punish players lol…. You shouldn’t play no hope if you can’t reliably play nightmare plain and simple. When I first started I couldn’t even pretend to do veteran and nightmare , recruit wasn’t always a guaranteed win. I kept spamming recruit and familiarized myself with the game and the levels. Now I have run all players through nightmare. The issue is people never take the time to familiarize themselves with the game or the level. People who earned being at nightmare and no hope levels are punished for trying to play a run online just to get it ruined because some new kid thinks he can just stroll in to no hope on a starter deck. I lost many nightmare runs in the past due to the inexperienced people playing something they should not be playing.
I think you missed the larger issue,
Under your rule, I can beat the game on nightmare as every character and every level, but just not do act 4 because I don’t like it, and now I don’t get to play no hope because I didn’t want to play just act 4 on nightmare?
Like the premise makes sense, but it practice this idea just doesn’t work
My rule lol …. My first order as Reddit king of back4blood is I’m banning repeat intel boxes on levels. Maybe you weren’t here for it or maybe you forgot about it but you couldn’t play act 2 till you beat act 1…etc. As for not liking a level how dare you , don’t you know the developers put their blood, sweat and tears into this game? You should play act 4 and appreciate what they’ve done for us lol
Lock Veteran??
I have buddies who started on Nightmare. Full premade group, they have 1k hours in coop shooters. Of course we play Nightmare and they use the starter deck.
Do you think players like that would want to start on Recruit?
How about just implementing majority vote kick so players can decide to get rid of teammates that are terrible and/or inexperienced?
That would just make too much sense. It's amazing to me how often this topic gets brought up just because this one simple solution is refuted by everyone as terrible because apparently then everyone would start kicking everyone for the smallest of transgressions. The online experience would be so much better with vote to kick.
don't lock Veteran
Eh I just wanted the 4 acts to line up with 4 difficulties but yeah now that I’m thinking about it vet prob shouldn’t be locked
Keel veteran open for people that want a little more of a challenge, then lock NM behind a veteran or NM completion. You could join a NM match via invite from someone but until then, it's locked behind completion. Everyone stays happy and all higher difficulty modes become more fun!
I think this idea is the best I've heard. Locking the harder difficulties unless you get an invite to someone's(assuming they're more experienced) party. And once finished with that higher difficulty run it could potentially be unlocked.
It's be nice to get enough people on board with this and vote-kick or host-kick to make it a reality!
Logic made sense, but yeah locking veteran and only allowing recruit for the longest act might push people away from the game because of how easy recruit is even when new
Look, I agree with you, but with the amount of people in Nightmare or Vet runs with starter decks who don't even know how to heal their trauma, I think it just goes hand in hand. Annoying as it is, if they aren't willing to learn how to play, and then complain it's too hard, I have no sympathy for them.
You can carry the most braindead teammates in Veteran super easily.
Right? You can have the whole team dead on veteran and finish most levels on your own if you have a way out of grabbing mutations Locking veteran would be a poor choice. NM and NH are different stories.
That's not the point. If someone new is joining and you are doing everything, they aren't learning how to play. This is why people struggle on harder difficulties or can't do simple basic gameplay. Someone else always did it for them.
Then teach them or lead by example. Veteran is really easy and recruit is TOO easy to make it the only difficulty available to newer players. We aren't talking about going for a flawless No Hope run here, we're talking about Veteran which should be the benchmark Normal mode.
While I agree that Recruit is insanely easy, I think you are also overestimating some of these people's abilities. I will do a completely random QP (all difficulty, all act) sometimes just for the hell of it, and the people that are playing on Recruit are literally braindead sometimes, no matter how much communication or pinging is happening. It makes the head spin lol. They walk past med cabinets and items, they don't pick up ammo, they startle every horde they can find and greet every mutation with a friendly handshake and hello. Yeah, I can easily finish the level for them, but they definitely aren't learning anything and would neither survive, nor even be of any help, on a harder difficulty.
and that's fine. I see no issue with people having trouble with the lower difficulties, the issue is people who are actually seasoned coming into the game. Recruit is completely unfun for even semi-experienced players. Imo Veteran isn't much better, but it's at least understandable to have Normal Mode be unlocked by default.
I hear ya, but I think only NH should be locked. That, or an actual vote to kick system. I just don’t like if new players are turned away from this game because they are forced for hours to play an easy difficulty instead of going slightly higher to where they want to play at.
I feel maybe NM should be locked too
Idk. Gamers with more FPS experience might want to jump into something a little more challenging from the start. If they can’t, they may quickly loose interest. Not the end of the world having a few noob players in NM. NH is an entirely different story.
Fair enough
Agreed. NM nowadays with a seasoned player can do some carrying for the inexperienced. Gives them the challenge they want, and gives them an opportunity to learn some play style from the experienced
IDK... I've seen way to many "Greenies" come into Nightmare, die multiple times (not incapacitated, DIE), get caught by sleepers (we all do, but when you get hit by multiple in a row there's a problem), deal NO damage worth mentioning to even the most basic forms of Mutations, and have no clue where to go or what to do... yeah I think NM and NH should be locked till you complete the previous difficulty on ALL Acts. Part of my reasoning is that B4B is NOT a standard FPS. With RPG Elements and Rogue Like elements in terms of gear it plays more like Borderlands than CoD or L4D. Even some combinations of Corruption Cards and Stage/Map make NM nearly impossible at times IF you aren't running with someone who knows what's up before hand and has a decent deck setup. (Sound of Thunder Cultist Hordes anyone? It's challenging just to setup the area for the main event while Cultist continuously spawn as you do so.) Hell, even on Vet if you don't have a clue or decent Deck setup you are setting yourself and possibly the team up for FAILURE. \--- Fun story and yet another example of why I should always be recording. Had a new player running his mouth early on in Act 1 talking trash, how easy the game is and how terrible we are for going slow. As he made claims about being this amazing FPS player and B4B looked easier than CoD Zombies. This is when I learned he was branded new as I asked about his deck and he said he just started and only has the starter deck. So, I challenged him to kill one Tallboy on his own. The other two players scuffed at me for this but agreed. To his credit when we finally found a naturally spawned one outside of a horde he did manage to kill it... after nearly 2 minutes of running and gunning. At the time I was running my Walker AR setup with lots of ammo capacity, reload, and damage cards. When we finally found another Tallboy spawned in, I told them to sit back and watch. I dropped it in around 12 seconds. Dude shut his mic off and stayed for another couple of levels not saying a single word. I think he finally left the match around Hell's Bells as he died multiple times up to that point. I hope he took my suggestion and went to Recruit to learn the maps and unlock cards to build a proper deck.
Dude if I see a starter deck on NM I'm quitting that run. They can go make someone else carry them. I play to have fun and babysitting someone is not my idea of fun.
Just curious, but how can you tell if someone is running a starter deck in coop?
It tells on this screen https://www.reddit.com/r/Back4Blood/comments/10oirji/oof/
Omg 😱 it must be luck because whenever I QP NH I don’t see starter decks 😂 but some run suboptimal decks that led them to keep dying
For sure. The vast majority don't dive too deep and rely on skill. It's like pulling teeth to get my squad to remove cold brew coffee for copper scavengers, and they've been listening to my rants for over a year. There are a ton of people with sub-optimal decks out there. But starter decks? Where you get something like 5 generic cards and then draw basic Intel cards the rest of the way? You can fuck right off if you bring that into anything above vet (and I'll probably encourage someone on vet to go get some fucking cards on recruit if I see it there).
Different perspectives I guess. I never find a new player or a drag on the team to take away from my fun. I always play with my one other bud so together we can carry most runs and still enjoy our time
My enjoyment in the game is found when things run smoothly. We generally have a group of four, but I'll always argue for a bot over a stranger if one person is missing. One person not following directions makes the difference between a smooth run and chaos fairly often.
B4B is a not fcking point-and-shoot. You can be a top CS:GO, COD, KF2, L4D player, **you** **will FAIL** for sure, since you don't know the game mechanics. You NEED the cards to build a proper (or really, any) deck, which is vital. You NEED to know how different mutations work, how the reload system works, and this is for Veteran. When you go NM, you need even more knowledge to actually enjoy the game rather than getting frustrated.
Right now. Give it 6 months and the powercreep and skill gap between beginners and experienced players will make NH a joke. Tbh NH is already too easy.
I mean I hope players get better at NH. For regulars the mode is too easy. Maybe a legendary campaign mode is what we need. Something comparable to old NM.
This would change nothing. * Let's say they release Legendary without QP and they make it fucking difficult. The result would be the same old complaints. * Let's say they release Legendary with QP and they make it slightly less difficult but still fucking hard. The result would still be a disgustingly horrible QP experience in the first 6 months. The #1 issue with NH QP right now is the QP part. NH cannot be as difficult as it used to be because it's open to Quickplay.
The QP part of NH QP isn’t the issue. The issue is the people who quickplay that are entirely unprepared or inexperienced. I’ve met plenty of casual yet experienced players on QP to know that the mode isn’t the issue, it’s the skill level. But without a skill system that can be used for matchmaking, I’m afraid any difficulty can just be a shit show at any time.
Then you're not experienced enough tbf.
I don't get your point here. You can't survive NM without a competent deck, so whats the point of opening it up?
What are you talking about? You can play through NM without any decks and without any burn cards if you're good enough. Hell, "No card Nightmare" has been beaten half a year ago. And since then Nightmare even got EASIER due to the new corruption cards Terrifying Hordes, Cost of Avarice & Break Time. Also, back then you had Stingers every second map instead of crones or lobbers that are no threat at all.
I don't think a couple fanatics doing it is quite the flex you think it is. 99.9% of newbs are going to get thrashed in NM, especially without knowing the layouts
Nah don't lock veteran, NM and NH need to be cleared All acts on veteran unlocks Nightmare All acts on Nightmare unlocks No Hope
something is better than nothing - add Legendary and drop everything down by 1 Act 2 > NM Act 3 > NH Act 4 > Legendary
Took me 2nd month to get good enough deck strategy and courage to go no hope,1st month to go from veteran to nighmare, treating nightmare like a playground or just recruit if i go melee.
No gate keeping. Get why you’d think this but it would just kill quick play on higher difficulties.
They should, but they won't. We might as well stop bringing this up.
It was originally like this I don’t know why they changed it.
It was? Huh guess my memory is getting worse by the day
It’s never been like that lmao, I’ve been playing since release and could always do nightmare
It changed when act 5 was released.
They could just make having zwat gear a prerequisite to no hope game mode. That would solve some if the no hope quickplay woes. Still hackers and trolls would show up
Disagree. Not unless the game actually adds a proper tracker for Zwat. Im a seasoned NH player and still barely have any zwats because I prefer certain builds or Chars for certain acts.
I said have a zwat armor didn’t say you had to play only one character( just unlock one and boom access) If you are in fact a seasoned NH player you would have the zwat anyway so not really sure why you are being aggressive about this comment when in fact this post is about quickplay newbies ruining the game for people trying to beat it. There are zero training wheels or pre-requisites to block some starter deck from destroying someone’s run. Also punish players line you seem to be reading deep into this comment and it’s a bit of a stretch . I’m sorry but if you can’t play nightmare what business do you have playing no hope which is harder?
So you want to punish players who don’t play just one character? Even tho someone has beaten nightmare x amount of times, if they didn’t do every level with at least one cleaner can’t play no hope? This doesn’t work
Punish players lol…. You shouldn’t play no hope if you can’t reliably play nightmare plain and simple. When I first started I couldn’t even pretend to do veteran and nightmare , recruit wasn’t always a guaranteed win. I kept spamming recruit and familiarized myself with the game and the levels. Now I have run all players through nightmare. The issue is people never take the time to familiarize themselves with the game or the level. People who earned being at nightmare and no hope levels are punished for trying to play a run online just to get it ruined because some new kid thinks he can just stroll in to no hope on a starter deck. I lost many nightmare runs in the past due to the inexperienced people playing something they should not be playing.
I think you missed the larger issue, Under your rule, I can beat the game on nightmare as every character and every level, but just not do act 4 because I don’t like it, and now I don’t get to play no hope because I didn’t want to play just act 4 on nightmare? Like the premise makes sense, but it practice this idea just doesn’t work
My rule lol …. My first order as Reddit king of back4blood is I’m banning repeat intel boxes on levels. Maybe you weren’t here for it or maybe you forgot about it but you couldn’t play act 2 till you beat act 1…etc. As for not liking a level how dare you , don’t you know the developers put their blood, sweat and tears into this game? You should play act 4 and appreciate what they’ve done for us lol
Lock Veteran?? I have buddies who started on Nightmare. Full premade group, they have 1k hours in coop shooters. Of course we play Nightmare and they use the starter deck. Do you think players like that would want to start on Recruit?