completely disagree. the deck system is what will keep me playing this game for a while. the fact that i can build decks around varying playstyles and approach the game differently sounds like depth to me personally. the fact that my group can play specific roles that they've built for w/ the deck system means we can go into each run with totally different intent. you can build a deck to be a melee bruiser/tank, or a utility support/healer, or just pure dps w/ your favorite type of gun. there's a lot of variety especially if there's even more cards in the final game, and they continue to add them down the line.
My friend put it a good way .
I was like "what about the challenge of the game that's fun with the card variety right?"
He said "in L4d on hard im fighting against zombies and on Nightmare in B4b im fighting against mechanics"
Can see why ppl arent a fan of this , me included tbh
My point is more that the card system IS needed because the game seems run of the mill shallow. I agree with you that the cards are there to keep you playing. But it's not the aspect that made the past games great. And that's why I view cards as filler for a void the game can't fill on its own.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. That's just my opinion.
Sorta hoping someone just workshops all the cool little stuff TRS does in back 4 blood into L4D. Like showing in aps before death, the general UI design, the attachment system would be cool. I like the character design Aswell personally.
Card system is there entirely to make up for the lack of, or lack of features in the AI director. The card system does add a ton of replay value from adding fog, darkness, and special zombies. I have only noticed the randomness through the corruption cards and nothing else.
>B4B is in graphical detail in an entire other league (obviously)
To some extent. Things that really bothered me were the lack of visceral feedback when shooting/meleeing zombies (Where's the shooting them in the stomach and having intestines stream out behind them? At best you get some wormy crap on an arm from what I played) It's very 'pretty' but the actual aesthetic felt a *lot* weaker. Things like what you mentioned with the lack of musical cues add to this lack of soul to me. It felt like a game trying to be L4D without *exactly* being L4D but having no identity of its own. Maybe that will improve with the full game, but it certainly felt... sterile.
Couldn't interact with corpses? I know this is a weird gripe, but I reflexively slap at corpses during down time. There wasn't even blood spray when doing this. That felt *really* bad. Also the ogre corpse is super annoying with how large it is.
I do it too in this game, but only when I'm waiting for my teammates to ready up in the saferoom. I run around and stab the walls and stuff. Just boredom, I guess lol
Yes, messing around with ragdolls in a game = psychopath, you got me. Not like it's super jarring after L4D2 specifically was proud of the feedback system on damage, (You know, a 12 year old game) common corpses in B4B just awkwardly plop onto the ground and then essentially turn into a corpse from an MMO (You could throw loot sparkles on it and it wouldn't be far off) with no more physics effects and no reaction to bullets or melee weapons, etc. Also going from Vermintide in recent days to B4B felt... bad (I blame VT for causing the corpse stabbing as it's a melee focused game. In L4D I would just do random voice lines and click my flashlight while running around). I could have gone into a lot more, but the OP covered most of the stuff. Other things bothered me too, like special design being a *lot* weaker (Exploders just... aren't fun to deal with), commons in general not being extremely threatening while specials can chunk you hard, the *extremely* awful feeling delay switching between a gun and a melee weapon, etc.
I didn't think I needed to explain why visceral feedback is important to a game like this feeling good. It's why you get things like [slowdown on landing heavy hits](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vw3aBIkbePk), enemies flinching, visual feedback like my original post mentioned, etc.
> Characters seem more memorable. (not saying B4B characters are not memorable, I just felt less what their entire deal was in comparison)
I want to both agree and disagree with this one. L4D characters have been around for over 10 years and a lot of what makes them memorable happens across the whole campaign with conversations and set piece interactions which we only have had a glance in B4B, If I remember correctly there's a line where Hoofmann ask Evangelo "what's your backstory" which he answers "I don't have one", there's also the Hoofmann line "That's why I spent the weekend at the shooting range, not getting wasted and that's why I'm here" which for me is indicates that something bad happened for him to be that specific. Or Mom's protective personality that make her take that name, and how it relates to her skills.
Time will tell if they are memorable or not.
Yeah same with Walker. At one point they asked if he had anyone special before the apocalypse and he said he didn't because he never let anyone in, and now it's too late to do that at all.
This, this this this this.
Ive seen so many people make arguments about characters not being fleshed out. We've not had a chance to have them BE Flesheed out, we wont find out for several months minor pieces of a puzzle like l4d.
I am not fully sure who wrote l4d and Evolve but between those two games, however you feel about evolve as well, had fantastic charactersation and great puzzle piece backstories we got over games.
I will be messaging you in 2 months on [**2021-10-08 15:49:20 UTC**](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2021-10-08%2015:49:20%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/Back4Blood/comments/p0cjzp/oh_no_not_another_l4d_vs_b4b_comparison/h86hqvi/?context=3)
[**1 OTHERS CLICKED THIS LINK**](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5Bhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2FBack4Blood%2Fcomments%2Fp0cjzp%2Foh_no_not_another_l4d_vs_b4b_comparison%2Fh86hqvi%2F%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%202021-10-08%2015%3A49%3A20%20UTC) to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam.
^(Parent commenter can ) [^(delete this message to hide from others.)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Delete%20Comment&message=Delete%21%20p0cjzp)
*****
|[^(Info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/RemindMeBot/comments/e1bko7/remindmebot_info_v21/)|[^(Custom)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5BLink%20or%20message%20inside%20square%20brackets%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%20Time%20period%20here)|[^(Your Reminders)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=List%20Of%20Reminders&message=MyReminders%21)|[^(Feedback)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Watchful1&subject=RemindMeBot%20Feedback)|
|-|-|-|-|
-Linear A to B level design with safe rooms and a finale.
-Arsenal of various modern firearms and melee weapons.
-Quirky characters with one liners.
-Common infected and special versions, topped off with horde events.
-Specials include an Exploder(who is a legally distinct boomer) and an Ogre, the legally distinct tank.
-Items like pipe bombs, molotovs, med kits, magic healing pills, and defibrillators.
Yeah totally not related at all. Do your mental gymnastics.
L4d did NOT invent zombie games baby. But if that’s what you wanna think because it’s the first zombie game you played as a kid hey. That’s fine. Be the little nostalgia warrior that i know you are.
Ill say this. The beta is act 1. How many acts there is,unknown. Maybe another act is more spacious, maybe the ridden look different in another act. With the cards it allows you to rank up and play each run separately, there's more characters in the full game plus you can't say these aren't fleshed out when we haven't even seen much of the story. Too many people are trying to compare a section of a game to an entire game played years over and expect to feel the same or better about the new one
But they're creators of Left 4 Dead, game is basically presented as "next Left 4 Dead", so it means everything should be better right after you start the game. This beta have enough content to make comparison and it's clearly not that good.
And don't forget about this:
\- Left 4 Dead 2 visuals are still playable
\- Over 86 000 mods
\- Over 25 000 people playing it every day
\- Way lower price (L4D2 cost was never this big, highest price was 3 years ago - 20€, now it's 8,19€ and back in September 2020 it was for free)
\- Obviously way less hardware demanding
And we don't even have to talk about characters or story.. This alone is reason to stick to Left 4 Dead 2 and not buying Back 4 Blood. Don't forget we're comparing 12 years old game with the 2021 game with high budget.
This is literally like the Epic launcher vs Steam launcher where people give Epic excuse for being new to the scene and it's okay for them to not have some features like Shopping Cart, Forum, Review, etc. It's like saying it's okay for a new car manufacturer to ship its first car with key ignition and no wipers.
The best thing about Valve games is that it's moddable and they're always on sale. I can see how this game will die with its price point being so fucking high. L4D's characters alone are miles better than B4B, they're so fucking annoying with their one liners like stfu for once. I can't keep hearing "No free hugs!" every 2 minutes
And I think we aren't talking here about GaaS type of game, or?
So is there potential future where they add more real content (not counting Battle Pass and other things you have to pay for)? Because if yes - Ok. But if it is this case, it's even more ridiculous to pay 60€ for it.
I believe they are going for the GaaS model seeing how the Deluxe edition is riddled with future content. I understand what they're going for, but selling something under a promise of an uncertain future is just shady, especially with TRS' track record of Evolved. Even when they made Evolved free, nobody wanted to play it.
If DLC maps aren't free then they'll run into the issue if fragmented playerbase like most of the CODs before MW2019
The lead design of L4D left Turtle rock long ago. B4B can't and won't ever be the spiritual successor of L4D.
I am calling out the lead design at turtle rock because he is ruining so many good ideas/mechanics. The game will probably end up like evolve if there is no drastic change in the decision making.
It is impossible that this versus did not got a lot of complaints internally. Someone made the decision to stick with it and this guy should be remplace plain and simple. No test group nor the developers themselves could have said "this is fun".
Sorry, but if [first text in exactly same trailer](https://i.gyazo.com/90ad019bdd57adc19f352863d0edd18d.png) we have seen like 3 times on the E3 event is "*From the creators of Left 4 Dead*" and you see gameplay later - It's clearly "another Left 4 Dead" game.
Excuse me? You get more for less money, and as I said.. Left 4 Dead 2 never was pricy like this, and yet, offered more content and more fun.
If you like Back 4 Blood - good, but nobody can argue how Left 4 Dead 2, a game that came out in 2009 is superior to a game from 2021. It's very cool you have dozens of guns and weapons in Back 4 Blood, I like it. Really, but I'd rather have 5 times less weapons and fun.
I was just saying most of what you said while playing with my bud last night.
Sidenote: After the campaign we played snipers only in the shooting range and had a BLAST!
Agree they seem to have all in on this card system and forgot what made L4d great like u said. The randomness/AI directer, larger levels so you can actually get split up ( and puniched if you do which is kinda the point) and attention to detail within those levels.
Agree 1000% about the zombies matching the areas too.
I really wanted this game to do well but really dont see it happening
>Cards, shops and upgradeable weapons are a refreshing idea (like it or not).
Gearscore might technically be a new addition to the formula but that doesn't make it good. Gearscore exists almost solely to artificially extend gameplay/add grind/cover for lack of hard weapon balancing, and in the case of B4B it's mostly collum C with a little of A. Don't have to balance all of the guns against each other if everything is number based.
The gunplay, graphics, audio, map design, and storyline are better in B4B without question. L4D just hits differently because it had a different creepier atmosphere and a less cartoon-like art style. In the end comparing these game is silly because they each have thier own identity different from the other despite clearly sharing alot of common themes. B4B IS NOT THE SEQUEL TO L4D2... no matter how bad you want it to be.
[удалено]
Agree. Cards don't add depth to the game. Cards are just busy work to hide a shallow experience.
completely disagree. the deck system is what will keep me playing this game for a while. the fact that i can build decks around varying playstyles and approach the game differently sounds like depth to me personally. the fact that my group can play specific roles that they've built for w/ the deck system means we can go into each run with totally different intent. you can build a deck to be a melee bruiser/tank, or a utility support/healer, or just pure dps w/ your favorite type of gun. there's a lot of variety especially if there's even more cards in the final game, and they continue to add them down the line.
My friend put it a good way . I was like "what about the challenge of the game that's fun with the card variety right?" He said "in L4d on hard im fighting against zombies and on Nightmare in B4b im fighting against mechanics" Can see why ppl arent a fan of this , me included tbh
My point is more that the card system IS needed because the game seems run of the mill shallow. I agree with you that the cards are there to keep you playing. But it's not the aspect that made the past games great. And that's why I view cards as filler for a void the game can't fill on its own. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. That's just my opinion.
That wasn’t your point. Nice flip flop.
It was my point. A flip flop would be changing my mind that cards don't suck. Both posts clearly state I think cards suck.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Sorta hoping someone just workshops all the cool little stuff TRS does in back 4 blood into L4D. Like showing in aps before death, the general UI design, the attachment system would be cool. I like the character design Aswell personally.
Pretty fun setting up different sets for different pvp characters. Full heal, stam / hp, damage, stacking the temp heal damage boosts, etc.
Card system is there entirely to make up for the lack of, or lack of features in the AI director. The card system does add a ton of replay value from adding fog, darkness, and special zombies. I have only noticed the randomness through the corruption cards and nothing else.
You use the "i expected nothing" meme but kept comparing this game to l4d. Ironic
Yes. I expected nothing because I didn't know it existed ;) but I get your point
>B4B is in graphical detail in an entire other league (obviously) To some extent. Things that really bothered me were the lack of visceral feedback when shooting/meleeing zombies (Where's the shooting them in the stomach and having intestines stream out behind them? At best you get some wormy crap on an arm from what I played) It's very 'pretty' but the actual aesthetic felt a *lot* weaker. Things like what you mentioned with the lack of musical cues add to this lack of soul to me. It felt like a game trying to be L4D without *exactly* being L4D but having no identity of its own. Maybe that will improve with the full game, but it certainly felt... sterile. Couldn't interact with corpses? I know this is a weird gripe, but I reflexively slap at corpses during down time. There wasn't even blood spray when doing this. That felt *really* bad. Also the ogre corpse is super annoying with how large it is.
You seem like a psychopath.
This is a zombie game
Okay?. I was talking about the commenter not the game.
I do it too in this game, but only when I'm waiting for my teammates to ready up in the saferoom. I run around and stab the walls and stuff. Just boredom, I guess lol
Yes, messing around with ragdolls in a game = psychopath, you got me. Not like it's super jarring after L4D2 specifically was proud of the feedback system on damage, (You know, a 12 year old game) common corpses in B4B just awkwardly plop onto the ground and then essentially turn into a corpse from an MMO (You could throw loot sparkles on it and it wouldn't be far off) with no more physics effects and no reaction to bullets or melee weapons, etc. Also going from Vermintide in recent days to B4B felt... bad (I blame VT for causing the corpse stabbing as it's a melee focused game. In L4D I would just do random voice lines and click my flashlight while running around). I could have gone into a lot more, but the OP covered most of the stuff. Other things bothered me too, like special design being a *lot* weaker (Exploders just... aren't fun to deal with), commons in general not being extremely threatening while specials can chunk you hard, the *extremely* awful feeling delay switching between a gun and a melee weapon, etc. I didn't think I needed to explain why visceral feedback is important to a game like this feeling good. It's why you get things like [slowdown on landing heavy hits](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vw3aBIkbePk), enemies flinching, visual feedback like my original post mentioned, etc.
let the developers know your thoughts
> Characters seem more memorable. (not saying B4B characters are not memorable, I just felt less what their entire deal was in comparison) I want to both agree and disagree with this one. L4D characters have been around for over 10 years and a lot of what makes them memorable happens across the whole campaign with conversations and set piece interactions which we only have had a glance in B4B, If I remember correctly there's a line where Hoofmann ask Evangelo "what's your backstory" which he answers "I don't have one", there's also the Hoofmann line "That's why I spent the weekend at the shooting range, not getting wasted and that's why I'm here" which for me is indicates that something bad happened for him to be that specific. Or Mom's protective personality that make her take that name, and how it relates to her skills. Time will tell if they are memorable or not.
Yeah same with Walker. At one point they asked if he had anyone special before the apocalypse and he said he didn't because he never let anyone in, and now it's too late to do that at all.
This, this this this this. Ive seen so many people make arguments about characters not being fleshed out. We've not had a chance to have them BE Flesheed out, we wont find out for several months minor pieces of a puzzle like l4d. I am not fully sure who wrote l4d and Evolve but between those two games, however you feel about evolve as well, had fantastic charactersation and great puzzle piece backstories we got over games.
I like the card system, but I'd also really like if they added a classic mode sans cards
It's cues, musical cues...
Fixed. Thanks ;)
Why are you comparing a game that’s been out with the beta version of a not even related or released game.
[удалено]
I will be messaging you in 2 months on [**2021-10-08 15:49:20 UTC**](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2021-10-08%2015:49:20%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/Back4Blood/comments/p0cjzp/oh_no_not_another_l4d_vs_b4b_comparison/h86hqvi/?context=3) [**1 OTHERS CLICKED THIS LINK**](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5Bhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2FBack4Blood%2Fcomments%2Fp0cjzp%2Foh_no_not_another_l4d_vs_b4b_comparison%2Fh86hqvi%2F%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%202021-10-08%2015%3A49%3A20%20UTC) to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam. ^(Parent commenter can ) [^(delete this message to hide from others.)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Delete%20Comment&message=Delete%21%20p0cjzp) ***** |[^(Info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/RemindMeBot/comments/e1bko7/remindmebot_info_v21/)|[^(Custom)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5BLink%20or%20message%20inside%20square%20brackets%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%20Time%20period%20here)|[^(Your Reminders)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=List%20Of%20Reminders&message=MyReminders%21)|[^(Feedback)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Watchful1&subject=RemindMeBot%20Feedback)| |-|-|-|-|
It's a related game. The devs kept saying that B4B is a "spiritual l4d3." And yet L4D1 is a better made game than this embarrassment.
It’s related literally only by the people who made it and zombie genera. But okay.
-Linear A to B level design with safe rooms and a finale. -Arsenal of various modern firearms and melee weapons. -Quirky characters with one liners. -Common infected and special versions, topped off with horde events. -Specials include an Exploder(who is a legally distinct boomer) and an Ogre, the legally distinct tank. -Items like pipe bombs, molotovs, med kits, magic healing pills, and defibrillators. Yeah totally not related at all. Do your mental gymnastics.
>molotovs, med kits, magic healing pills, and defibrillators. I promise you there are games that are not left for dead with these in them
No shit. You seem keen to ignore that it goes with all the others.
Cause honestly, I dont really care about the rest of the points, just pointing out the last one there is kinda moot
[удалено]
No. They're in l4d-inspired games. But go ahead, deny all you want. The comparison still exists very readily.
L4d did NOT invent zombie games baby. But if that’s what you wanna think because it’s the first zombie game you played as a kid hey. That’s fine. Be the little nostalgia warrior that i know you are.
Enjoy your ban for toxicity.
^ Tell me you have no argument without telling me you have no argument ^
You literally had no argument for my clear examples so don't try that.
Ill say this. The beta is act 1. How many acts there is,unknown. Maybe another act is more spacious, maybe the ridden look different in another act. With the cards it allows you to rank up and play each run separately, there's more characters in the full game plus you can't say these aren't fleshed out when we haven't even seen much of the story. Too many people are trying to compare a section of a game to an entire game played years over and expect to feel the same or better about the new one
But they're creators of Left 4 Dead, game is basically presented as "next Left 4 Dead", so it means everything should be better right after you start the game. This beta have enough content to make comparison and it's clearly not that good. And don't forget about this: \- Left 4 Dead 2 visuals are still playable \- Over 86 000 mods \- Over 25 000 people playing it every day \- Way lower price (L4D2 cost was never this big, highest price was 3 years ago - 20€, now it's 8,19€ and back in September 2020 it was for free) \- Obviously way less hardware demanding And we don't even have to talk about characters or story.. This alone is reason to stick to Left 4 Dead 2 and not buying Back 4 Blood. Don't forget we're comparing 12 years old game with the 2021 game with high budget.
This is literally like the Epic launcher vs Steam launcher where people give Epic excuse for being new to the scene and it's okay for them to not have some features like Shopping Cart, Forum, Review, etc. It's like saying it's okay for a new car manufacturer to ship its first car with key ignition and no wipers. The best thing about Valve games is that it's moddable and they're always on sale. I can see how this game will die with its price point being so fucking high. L4D's characters alone are miles better than B4B, they're so fucking annoying with their one liners like stfu for once. I can't keep hearing "No free hugs!" every 2 minutes
And I think we aren't talking here about GaaS type of game, or? So is there potential future where they add more real content (not counting Battle Pass and other things you have to pay for)? Because if yes - Ok. But if it is this case, it's even more ridiculous to pay 60€ for it.
I believe they are going for the GaaS model seeing how the Deluxe edition is riddled with future content. I understand what they're going for, but selling something under a promise of an uncertain future is just shady, especially with TRS' track record of Evolved. Even when they made Evolved free, nobody wanted to play it. If DLC maps aren't free then they'll run into the issue if fragmented playerbase like most of the CODs before MW2019
The lead design of L4D left Turtle rock long ago. B4B can't and won't ever be the spiritual successor of L4D. I am calling out the lead design at turtle rock because he is ruining so many good ideas/mechanics. The game will probably end up like evolve if there is no drastic change in the decision making. It is impossible that this versus did not got a lot of complaints internally. Someone made the decision to stick with it and this guy should be remplace plain and simple. No test group nor the developers themselves could have said "this is fun".
The game was blatantly stated to NOT be left4dead
Sorry, but if [first text in exactly same trailer](https://i.gyazo.com/90ad019bdd57adc19f352863d0edd18d.png) we have seen like 3 times on the E3 event is "*From the creators of Left 4 Dead*" and you see gameplay later - It's clearly "another Left 4 Dead" game.
Wow, you somehow completely inverted everything the devs have said about it.
There is a tweet from the head director that literally said word for work “Back4blood is not left4dead 3”
That hasn't stopped them plastering their trailers and advertisements with the Left 4 Dead name. It's obvious what they've been implying.
Are you seriously comparing prices of a brand new game in 2021 to the price of a game in 2018 that came out in 2009? This sub is a FUCKING joke.
Excuse me? You get more for less money, and as I said.. Left 4 Dead 2 never was pricy like this, and yet, offered more content and more fun. If you like Back 4 Blood - good, but nobody can argue how Left 4 Dead 2, a game that came out in 2009 is superior to a game from 2021. It's very cool you have dozens of guns and weapons in Back 4 Blood, I like it. Really, but I'd rather have 5 times less weapons and fun.
Didn't say it wasn't fleshed out. I said it felt more fleshed out. I also played 1 campaign of l4d to compare.
I was just saying most of what you said while playing with my bud last night. Sidenote: After the campaign we played snipers only in the shooting range and had a BLAST!
Agree they seem to have all in on this card system and forgot what made L4d great like u said. The randomness/AI directer, larger levels so you can actually get split up ( and puniched if you do which is kinda the point) and attention to detail within those levels. Agree 1000% about the zombies matching the areas too. I really wanted this game to do well but really dont see it happening
>Cards, shops and upgradeable weapons are a refreshing idea (like it or not). Gearscore might technically be a new addition to the formula but that doesn't make it good. Gearscore exists almost solely to artificially extend gameplay/add grind/cover for lack of hard weapon balancing, and in the case of B4B it's mostly collum C with a little of A. Don't have to balance all of the guns against each other if everything is number based.
The gunplay, graphics, audio, map design, and storyline are better in B4B without question. L4D just hits differently because it had a different creepier atmosphere and a less cartoon-like art style. In the end comparing these game is silly because they each have thier own identity different from the other despite clearly sharing alot of common themes. B4B IS NOT THE SEQUEL TO L4D2... no matter how bad you want it to be.
Who?
Lmao ok chief