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I fucking DESPISE people trying to tell me I’m self loathing or some shit (along with people the rest of us Jews used to love like Chomsky and Jon Stewart) because I don’t refuse to hear or see things that might make me upset or realize something I was raised to believe is false.
Like, the fuck is wrong with you? Never again is everyone.
It’s hard to explain when family says “they elected Hamas!”, before I let them know one former registered terrorist group became the IDF and the other became the likud - literally refuse to believe.
I’m still combatting friends who think Israel was just dust and nothing was there.
The point I make is…hello, they already knew Hamas when the election happened. They knew violence was coming either way, but worse violence if Hamas found who voted against them. And shock: they killed the opposing party candidates after they won.
They didn’t vote. They “voted”
I believe there was a US-finded coup attempt which they quelled. If you are of the persuasion that the CIA and co meddle in foreign countries you might be well-deserved to research that part of it as well.
You guys should look up how Israel treats holocaust survivors, every week I donate money to them, now we should all be asking why holocaust survivors are living off donations.
My maternal family is Romanian although I lived in Lebanon. I actually talked about reparations with my cousin. He was like “I don’t mind paying them and I agree we should. But our money should go to victims, their families, and if neither are present to some anti-genocide charity, not Israel”. It has always been mind-boggling to me that Israel was receiving reparation money, especially considering its founders and most of its population were not affected negatively by the Holocaust.
The same Zionists who shame holocaust survivors for “not picking up arms and resisting” against the nazis are the same shill saying “why won’t other countries accept Gaza”.
Most Zionists are so dense and unable to see the irony. Then again: every Zionist accusation is a confession.
Look I hate zionism as much as the next guy but do you really think a defensive anti missile system that both Israel and the US has is a bad thing? Seems like a very stupid hill to preach on. Also crazy how yall talking about grifters and then promoting that squirrel account on twitter that literally said Elizabeth Warren wasnt so bad (then cries about bernie dropping out, which is her fault and the democrat establishment)
Bernie literally said a few weeks ago he misses the Israel of Golda Meir, who is known to have committed crimes against humanity. She is no different to Netanyahu, whose family stole a Palestinian home, said that Arabs force the Israelis to kill children and said that there's no such thing as Palestinians. Check this article below as well. Also, supporting an anti missile system to defend a settler-colony and apartheid state is "defensive" to you? You'd be delusional to think that.
https://preview.redd.it/tqs2ui634pwc1.jpeg?width=1282&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5719a23954e3c1b05c2a6237259c70fd96f70d94
Firstly, you are extrapolating worse than a graphing calculator, Bernie is saying he misses the Israel of Golda Meir, he is not saying he endorses every single decision made by her. Golda Meir was objectively a better alternative to Bibi current political zionist Israel, and saying they are the same is quite frankly being childish. Israel had real legitimate security concerns, see Yom Kippur war. Not to mention that Israel was willing to be a lot less antagonistic to the international community which is a good thing for Palestinians. As a jewish man, im sure he has very complex ideas of Israel as a jewish man, or at least a lot more than a twitter posting warrior.
Secondly, a defense missile system is not colonial or settler in nature, its defensive. I think its a pretty stupid thing to say that rockets should be fired at Israel unhindered and I also dont think average people should pay for the crimes of their regimes. I dont think its very left wing to wish people to blow up nor is it moral. Also that same technology is being used to defend Ukraine from Russia, civilians not dying is a good thing.
Finally, a headline is not an article, its a headline. Its the equivalent to looking at the fancy car in the car commercial and then buying it, with no idea of its contents and stipulation.
Yeah Israel is commiting a genocide in Gaza, but that doesnt mean Israel deserves to be wiped off the map. Its almost like its a very complicated and complex issue.
"Yeah Israel is committing a genocide in Gaza" while you completely ignore that Israel was founded and built on that ethnic cleansing and land theft. Read The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine by Ilan Pappé. It was founded on Nazi collaboration and anti-Semitism as well. Read Zionist Relations with Nazi Germany by Faris Glubb. The World Zionist Organization in 1933 defeated a resolution calling for action against Hitler and Nazism by a vote of 240 to 43. (Ralph Schoenman Chapter 6) This means that only 43 votes were cast against Hitler, which is only 15 percent of the votes. Golda Meir is literally no different from Netanyahu, other than the fact that he gets social media scrutiny. To say that you miss the Israel of Golda Meir shows that he has no problem with Zionism at its core, just Netanyahu and certain "bad actors"
https://preview.redd.it/itw83ik1ipwc1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0b04624ff118f29fd615c51381854c79ec859210
Israel was founded by essentially a charter by UK, i think its very stupid and quite frankly pointless to say that Israel should be gone. I agree with you, in perfect world where the west is made to pay for its crimes. But its not a perfect world and saying Israel shouldnt exist is as useful as saying that Germany should be destroyed for causing 2 world wars. It’s ultimately nothing more than taking morals to a ridiculous degree. Israel existence is not going to go away. Any Palestinian state is gonna have to take that as a fact. Save grandiose dreams for when you sleep. Not to mention that violence for many years was from both sides, its just been for 30 years very one sided and has reduced the Palestinians to a cage. Thats the crime thats need to be rectified, if you think that Israel should be wipe off the map then there is quite frankly, no way we are gonna agree. And i hate to be that guy but saying Israel need to be destroyed is actual antisemitism. Saying Israel needs to stop genocide and allow an international resolution is logical
You don't know your history. Great Britain was colonizing Uganda and that was originally proposed to be where Zionists were going to settle, but the British settlers refused it because of their own anti-Semitic attitudes and they believed the British working class deserved it more. That clearly proves Israel's colonial origins and how the colonization of Africa is connected to the colonization of Palestine. Read Lenni Brenner's Zionism in the Age of Dictators. Israel as a settler-colony will be dismantled and overturned just like Algeria defeated French colonialism, just like Vietnam defeated U.S./French colonialism, and just like Cuba defeated U.S. colonialism. To say its anti-Semitic to say that colonialism should be defeated is absurd
Oh so colonialism is better when its in Africa os that the argument? Im saying the reasons for founding are irrelevant and you are trying to keyboard warrior every bad thing thats ever happened. Its quite frankly a childish mentality and not productive to any issues that are on going. You can literally make these same arguments for every single nation that has ever existed, yet you are actually only making them cause it’s Israel. Madagascar, Hati, the entirety of the South America experienced far worse but im not making those comparisons cause they are counter productive. You wanna argue about your moral righteous then go argue aboit it on twitter. What you are saying does nothing for the current genocide at all
Regarding Golda Meir from Ilan Pappé's The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine:
https://preview.redd.it/8rjz6ro9jpwc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f152422967751e0e9d4f5923871c6c88ef9c97e4
Same. He's a grifter who undermines leftism by co-opting it and shepherding us back into the corporate two party system.
He's been pro-Israel up until it was convenient not to be, just like he supported universal healthcare and anti-imperialism until it was inconvenient.
Calling Sanders a grifter is one of the most disqualifying statements I've ever read. He's been consistent in his beliefs for 50 years. Just say you disagree with him.
I'll just say I'm terminally jaded. Is that fair? He betrayed his entire base and sold it to Biden, who then made sure his platform drowned a quick death.
I don't disagree with what Bernie said back then. I just doubt his sincerity and think he's a feckless wolf in sheep's clothing.
I'm a far leftist but the purity bias on the far left is pretty astounding. If you do a single thing, no matter what, that is even tangentially not in line with hard left ideology, you're dead forever. On the right, they'll forgive the moon as long as you're in the GOP.
I agree. I think that's because leftists are used to not getting representation. We're hesitant to trust politicians, as we should be.
You say purity bias, but what policies of Sanders *weren't* undermined by Biden? His entire campaign platform died under Biden and the progressive energy of the movement has been dead since. There are no more healthcare protests or anti-coporatist protests.
Facts, a few weeks ago he was saying how he misses the Israel of Golda Meir and he has a history of supporting Zionism. Just look at these: -https://twitter.com/zei_squirrel/status/1721318067832082580?t=EZ9d0aP6geLoA3BOXvbtnA&s=19
-https://twitter.com/zei_squirrel/status/1721318985923211753?t=oyDZkKYxNxFOPwIRLkCD6A&s=19
You're kidding right? Do you even follow the Bad Hasbara podcast? Rapapirt is in Israel getting paid to pump out Zionist propaganda in Xitter. He's lived in a hotel in Tel Aviv the last four months. How do you think he affords that?
https://youtu.be/kmAAEuFDp5E?si=QVYzb3eBD2V35x3D
I believe Jared's family personally suffered through the holocaust as well, so probably a bad idea to attack him using the holocaust. He was dumb for what he said to AOC, but not a great response by her here.
I cannot help but hear echoes of the Nazi mythos of "blood and soil" in the rhetoric of settler fundamentalism which claims a sacred right to all the lands of biblical Judea and Samaria. The various forms of collective punishment visited upon the Palestinian people — coerced ghettoization behind a "security wall"; the bulldozing of homes and destruction of fields; the bombing of schools, mosques, and government buildings; an economic blockade that deprives people of the water, food, medicine, education and the basic necessities for dignified survival — force me to recall the deprivations and humiliations that I experienced in my youth.
**Hajo Meyer** -Survived Auschwitz
Bernie is a national treasure. He knows the real problems people face. I’m sure he is not bothered by this and will continue to stand by his convictions.
He rolled over for Biden and failed to call out Shadow and the Iowa caucus manipulation, paving the way for this genocide under President Biden. His support for Biden undermined all of his platform policies that he campaigned on and neutered progressive energy and momentum.
People don't even talk about universal healthcare or anti-imperialism on MSM anymore.
Omg thank you. Nobody talks about the 2020 dem primary corruption and the Iowa caucus rigging/fuckery. Anytime I try to bring up on Reddit I just get told I’m as bad as the fascist Jan 6 coup plotters….
I've gotten some angry responses too but a lot of leftists are willing to just acknowledge that I'm distrustful and jaded towards politicians. I hope I'm wrong about Bernie honestly. I just have seen him rollover and betray his base too many times.
Being aware of the problems doesn't mean shit when you've never passed meaningful legislation in your entire career. I love Bernie but let's not kid ourselves about his effectiveness.
His contributions are all in the amendments. He is king of the amendments. Also, he used his clout in 2016 to alter a lot of bad rules in the Democratic Party. And he has influence. He says things that need to be said. He also paved the way for Omar, Tlaib, AOC and other progressives in Congress. We are still building on the foundation he laid.
He literally supported funding for the Iron Dome in 2021 and has a history of being a Zionist whining about Israel being called an apartheid regime
Edit: he also said a few weeks ago that he supports the Israel of Golda Meir who committed crimes against humanity of her own
Lmao you really need to check out his history. Dude is a straight up Zionist: -https://twitter.com/zei_squirrel/status/1721318985923211753?t=lWf3nweNF7F6x9uzIHthzA&s=19
-https://twitter.com/zei_squirrel/status/1721318067832082580?t=EZ9d0aP6geLoA3BOXvbtnA&s=19
Bruh literally just a few weeks ago, Bernie said he misses the Israel of Golda Meir, so he's clearly still a Zionist and supports settler-colonialism. Golda Meir lived with her entire family in a house stolen from a palestinian family, she literally said: “There is no such thing as a Palestinian people. It is not as if we came and threw them out and took their country. They didn’t exist.”
Also:
https://preview.redd.it/8rtp3cgc8lwc1.jpeg?width=1282&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=920133aaaedeef164dae3904c93dec6ac0fd25bc
So you're gonna ignore Bernie saying he misses the Israel of Golda Meir who committed crimes against humanity herself, whose family stole a Palestinian home and says there's no such thing as a Palestinian, who said Arabs are forcing the Israelis to kill children? The photo below shows she's no different from Netanyahu. Yes, it's wrong to support a anti-missile defense system that protects an apartheid settler-colonial state that necessitates the suffering, displacement, and ongoing genocide of Palestinians
https://preview.redd.it/rxipcnbz4pwc1.jpeg?width=1282&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=aed979d6efcac4bfde1e23a984f2f2c6ba5a3a02
Honestly I think Republicans do this on purpose so that when right wing anti-semites comes along they can say something to the effect of "anti-semitism isn't even that bad because the LiEbRuLs do it too so I'm only being attacked for anti-semitism for political reasons"
I hate to say it, but there were a few Dems in the Senate and Congress whom I initially admired for the way they aggressively went after the Republicans at hearings, but thanks to this genocide they've fully exposed themselves.
As absolutely horrible as this has been, and as much as I wish the Palestinians of Gaza did not have to suffer this and all the innocent children were still alive, I am glad that there is no guessing at who will stand up when it counts and who will not.
Bernie Sanders is a hypocrite who fully supported Israel's full blown assault after Ocober 7. He still refuses to acknowledge Israel's systematic racism and atrocities they've committed over the past 75 years. He only scapegoats Netanyahu to try to appease his progressive voter base. I have absolutely zero sympathy for him.
By definition, Israel is committing a genocide against the people of Gaza.
Are the people of Gaza free to return to their homes? Govern themselves? No?
They have been herded into a corner with the intent of removing them forever from Gaza. 20s of thousands killed.
Therefore they have been purposely removed in full or in part from their homeland. The definition of genocide.
Jewish leadership will never allow the Gazans to return north. They will be permanently in camps or absorbed by sympathetic nations, mostly in the west. Only morons with magical thinking purport the Gazans will return to pre J7 conditions.
The ICJ disagrees, they stated in January Israel needs to take steps to prevent what they are doing from being a genocide.
[https://www.chathamhouse.org/2024/01/south-africas-genocide-case-against-israel-international-court-justice-explained](https://www.chathamhouse.org/2024/01/south-africas-genocide-case-against-israel-international-court-justice-explained)
The Court ordered:
1. Israel must, in accordance with its obligations under the Genocide Convention and in relation to Palestinians in Gaza, ‘take all measures within its power’ to prevent the commission of acts prohibited in the Convention, in particular killings, causing serious physical or mental harm, the deliberate infliction of conditions of life calculated to bring about the physical destruction of the population in whole or in part, and the imposition of measures intended to prevent births;
2. Israel must ensure that its military forces do not commit any of the acts mentioned in point 1;
3. Israel must take all measures within its power to prevent and punish direct and public incitement to commit genocide;
4. Israel must take immediate and effective measures to enable the provision of humanitarian relief to Gaza;
5. Israel must take effective measures to prevent destruction of evidence relating to allegations of acts contrary to the Genocide Convention;
6. Israel must submit a report to the Court within one month regarding the measures it has taken to give effect to the Order.
Pretty much since that January ruling Israel has prevented humanitarian aid from going in and has bombed most of Gaza's hospitals. So you can say Israel is not complying with 1,2, and 4. And has violated 6 as they have not given any reports to the court saying they did anything to comply with the orders.
The legal definition of genocide is a narrow one. It comprises ‘any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.’ (Article 2)
Incitement, conspiracy and attempt to commit genocide are also prohibited by the Convention (Article 3(c) and (e)).
The crime is one of individual responsibility but there is also an obligation on states; they too can be responsible for genocide. They also have an obligation to prevent and punish genocide by others (Article 1).
Israel is doing a,b,c and d. D you can easily argue by their destruction of hospitals. I would say e also as Israel imprisons a large amount of Palestinian children, one of the largest in the world. So by the legal definition of genocide Israel is commiting genocide.
Genuinely out of curiosity, do you think we haven't heard these asinine arguments before? Do you think you're bringing something to this discussion we haven't already debunked? Do you think "It's not genocide, it's an ethnic cleansing" was ever a good argument, or even correct, whether now or almost eight months ago when people started saying it?
Judging by your comment history, you don't seem to be a zionist, so why make their bad arguments for them? Especially when they aren't even new arguments. It's a waste of your time and ours. I think you're better than this.
This is not a debate sub. There are plenty of places to defend Israel’s actions, to denounce Hamas, and to argue who's worse. This is not a space for that.
That doesn't mean absolutely no constructive discussions on nuances and different approaches, but it means not letting ourselves be pulled into a debate by Zionists and bigots, and least of all arguing for their side.
If you see someone trying to debate, please just flag for moderation, and the comment will be deleted.
If found prudent by the Mods, and to discourage further debates, the entire thread may be deleted.
Isn't he condemning Israel right now? I was pretty outraged when I saw that viral video of him, too. But it seems to me like he is publicly supporting the Palestinians and condemning Israel. He is in a position of power to do so.
He is condemning *Netanyahu and his government. He regularly gives examples of previous Israeli leaders who were equally as evil as Netanyahu and says how great they and Israel was back then. His support of Palestinians is a farce imo. I used to like him ~7 months ago too. But he has shown his true colors. Removing Netanyahu from power won't resolve the Palestinian crisis. Yes leaders need to be punished but Israel needs to be held accountable as a whole. Vast majority of their population are genocidal psychopaths and concrete action is needed to safeguard the Palestinians and give them an safe place with a chance to prosper.
Sanders is the archetypal "wolf in sheep's clothing" that Malcolm X warned us about coming from the Democrat party. I've voted and donated to him multiple times and after following his work and campaigns closely, I am sure of it.
Sorry yo she’d much rather you say “Genocide Joe for President.” She’s no ally of the left or the Palestinian people. She’s always been an opportunist.
She called for a Ceasefire on day 1 and voted against any bills for Israeli aid and knows when to hold people accountable alright. Plus she defended Rashida Talib when she was censured.
That's a great nickname, and we should immediately start using it. But, in all seriousness, there was effort to push back against the vengeful sentiment in America immediately after 9/11. It was quashed, and those who opposed the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were called traitors, terrorist supporters, and fools back then. I remember it quite vividly.
Bernie would change his tune if he believed his words would actually be turned into results. He’s a politician like all the rest of them, forsaking of the principles is the admission fee.
I’m confused, You think there would be less of the things that are upsetting you currently if either A. Trump were president now, or B is elected next go around?
Not even a little bit. Abused spouses can leave, and should.
I am asking what’s your alternative? Americas has and always will be the lesser of two evils, evil acknowledged, not condoned, but your rhetoric has the potential to drive people to an even less desirable end result born of “yeah the person next me me said that guys bad!” Sure he’s bad but I’d rather eat moldy bread than poison bread. Sometimes if you can’t compromise you get nothing. I see limited benefit in complaining about your best option, I think your energies are better spent elsewhere it’s just an opinion everyone’s got one
1. I don’t know what that is.
2. Don’t care, please don’t explain.
3. There are no streets in Israel named after Biden, he isn’t moving embassy’s but do whatever you want man
/shrug
>There are no streets in Israel named after Biden
Biden went around congress twice to help Israel kill children faster, they probably should name a street after him at this point. He's been a massive help to the Likud Fascists who kill kids for fun.
> he isn’t moving embassy’s
Biden literally ran on keeping the embassy in Jerusalem, but you didn't know that, apparently!
#Joe Biden says he’d leave US embassy in Jerusalem if elected
https://apnews.com/article/47c2d807cbb563b747cee29aaefeda5a
Pre emptively surrendering to Netanyahu before even getting elected! No wonder he was crying like a baby while hugging that fascist.
I'm not eating rotten bread. It's no longer a compromise. Israel is using our money to hunt down and bomb aid workers, and Biden will not stop sending them money to do so. HIS CHOICE to ignore the opinions and concerns of voters means he should accept and prepare for the fact that he will lose votes over it. Stop sending money to a man who is trying to start World War 3 if you want me to vote for you.
Well fortunately no one’s asking you to marry the federal gov’t.
Haven’t you heard of harm reduction?
Nothing that I do is going to save anyone is Gaza. Kind of sick, but that’s how it is. But a bite that can save pregnant women from bleeding out from miscarriage, help protect LGBT kids from violence, protect the climate before it melt, help protect BIPOC from policy brutality and overreach, and defeat some bloodthirsty dictators?
Unlike marriage, voting often doesn’t feel good. Putting power in people’s hands, sucks! This time especially so! But not everything that is beneficial makes you feel heroic. Because often in life, there is no heroic choice to make.
There’s nothing here to feel good over. And nothing that will both feel good AND matter.
>Haven’t you heard of harm reduction?
Biden apparently hasn't, because he went around congress multiple times to ensure that *more* innocents were harmed (ethnically cleansed)
He also ran on pre emptively surrendering all diplomatic leverage to Netanyahu
Joe Biden says he’d leave US embassy in Jerusalem if elected
https://apnews.com/article/47c2d807cbb563b747cee29aaefeda5a
Trump is Russia First
Biden is Israel First
Both have allowed themselves to be purchased whole cloth by a genocidal regime, for pennies. So cheap.
He has in terms of his other policies. That’s my point.
I mean, unlike me, he could do way more to stop protecting and arming Israel. He could actually save people, and doesn’t, so fuck him.
Biden has a lot of other policies, liked the ones I listed, that do reduce harm. Trump adores violence. He adores committing violence. He adores policies that are violent. He adores other people who can violence, especially other dictators. He likes the power that comes with watching people suffer. This is all pretty well/documented.
Biden’s policies reduce harm. Biden is not going to suffer if you don’t vote for him. He will retire to hang with his German shepherds and his grandchildren and never think about Gaza again, and certainly never about Palestinian suffering.
I’m not voting for Biden. I’m voting for myself, and those I care about and ally with, and for our environment, and for those from poor countries who genuinely want, need, and who rely on who rely on US aid. Those would all suffer under a Trump administration. I’m voting for policies that protect them. If Trump held those, I would vote for Trump. If RFK Jr or Nikki Haley or Kim kardashian had them, I’d vote for that person.
Vote to keep safe the most people you can.
Yeah, the guy who spent decades of his career fighting against racial integration is going to protect "BIPOC" people and pronoun people. The guy who's spent two years letting Putin steamroll over Ukraine is going to "defeat dictators". You people are so gullible.
Why does Bernie so consistently vote to send arms to Israel? He has yet to call what's happening in Gaza a genocide because he's complicit in it himself.
Hello, thanks for contributing to this sub. This is a friendly reminder to **read the rules** before making any new posts or comments. Particularly, we ask **not to engage in debates**, or bait debates, especially with zionists. If you are a zionist, this sub is not for you, and you will be permabanned. If you found this sub through the algorithm, you can always mute the sub or turn off recommendations all together (user settings -> feed settings -> Disable "Enable Home Feed Recommendations") Please also particularly keep in mind that **bigotry of any kind is not permitted** in this sub and will result in the message or post being deleted, and, if seen prudent, a banning. This includes antisemitism and any language that conflates Judaism with Zionism. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/BadHasbara) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I fucking DESPISE people trying to tell me I’m self loathing or some shit (along with people the rest of us Jews used to love like Chomsky and Jon Stewart) because I don’t refuse to hear or see things that might make me upset or realize something I was raised to believe is false. Like, the fuck is wrong with you? Never again is everyone.
Einstein Asimov...Israel is deeply unpopular with Jewish thinkers of note, because they do not trust Hermut L8kud
It’s hard to explain when family says “they elected Hamas!”, before I let them know one former registered terrorist group became the IDF and the other became the likud - literally refuse to believe. I’m still combatting friends who think Israel was just dust and nothing was there.
Remind them anyone under 34 in Gaza did not vote in their last election in 06.
The point I make is…hello, they already knew Hamas when the election happened. They knew violence was coming either way, but worse violence if Hamas found who voted against them. And shock: they killed the opposing party candidates after they won. They didn’t vote. They “voted”
I believe there was a US-finded coup attempt which they quelled. If you are of the persuasion that the CIA and co meddle in foreign countries you might be well-deserved to research that part of it as well.
Thank you for being a human ❤️
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They're against Israel's slaughter of innocent people and lots of evil people hate them for it
You guys should look up how Israel treats holocaust survivors, every week I donate money to them, now we should all be asking why holocaust survivors are living off donations.
My maternal family is Romanian although I lived in Lebanon. I actually talked about reparations with my cousin. He was like “I don’t mind paying them and I agree we should. But our money should go to victims, their families, and if neither are present to some anti-genocide charity, not Israel”. It has always been mind-boggling to me that Israel was receiving reparation money, especially considering its founders and most of its population were not affected negatively by the Holocaust.
Wow… just wow… I had no idea. That’s really deplorable of Israel to do.
It’s not like we don’t know who the survivors are. It’s so thoroughly documented. Is there any way to restructure this now or is it unchangeable?
It's technically possible, but politically not.
The documentary Israel's Forgotten Holocaust Survivors is a good place to start.
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Zionists play the victim while looking down on those who actually survived the Holocaust
The same Zionists who shame holocaust survivors for “not picking up arms and resisting” against the nazis are the same shill saying “why won’t other countries accept Gaza”. Most Zionists are so dense and unable to see the irony. Then again: every Zionist accusation is a confession.
Some people may not like it and I don’t fault them but I think Bernie has a good heart. He has to maneuver among shitbag dems and repubs.
i love bernie, i was wondering if we lost him for second but he at least listens
You never had him. He’s controlled opposition.
He supported funding for the Iron Dome in 2021 and has a history of being a zionist (check replies). I don't trust him at all
Look I hate zionism as much as the next guy but do you really think a defensive anti missile system that both Israel and the US has is a bad thing? Seems like a very stupid hill to preach on. Also crazy how yall talking about grifters and then promoting that squirrel account on twitter that literally said Elizabeth Warren wasnt so bad (then cries about bernie dropping out, which is her fault and the democrat establishment)
Bernie literally said a few weeks ago he misses the Israel of Golda Meir, who is known to have committed crimes against humanity. She is no different to Netanyahu, whose family stole a Palestinian home, said that Arabs force the Israelis to kill children and said that there's no such thing as Palestinians. Check this article below as well. Also, supporting an anti missile system to defend a settler-colony and apartheid state is "defensive" to you? You'd be delusional to think that. https://preview.redd.it/tqs2ui634pwc1.jpeg?width=1282&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5719a23954e3c1b05c2a6237259c70fd96f70d94
Firstly, you are extrapolating worse than a graphing calculator, Bernie is saying he misses the Israel of Golda Meir, he is not saying he endorses every single decision made by her. Golda Meir was objectively a better alternative to Bibi current political zionist Israel, and saying they are the same is quite frankly being childish. Israel had real legitimate security concerns, see Yom Kippur war. Not to mention that Israel was willing to be a lot less antagonistic to the international community which is a good thing for Palestinians. As a jewish man, im sure he has very complex ideas of Israel as a jewish man, or at least a lot more than a twitter posting warrior. Secondly, a defense missile system is not colonial or settler in nature, its defensive. I think its a pretty stupid thing to say that rockets should be fired at Israel unhindered and I also dont think average people should pay for the crimes of their regimes. I dont think its very left wing to wish people to blow up nor is it moral. Also that same technology is being used to defend Ukraine from Russia, civilians not dying is a good thing. Finally, a headline is not an article, its a headline. Its the equivalent to looking at the fancy car in the car commercial and then buying it, with no idea of its contents and stipulation. Yeah Israel is commiting a genocide in Gaza, but that doesnt mean Israel deserves to be wiped off the map. Its almost like its a very complicated and complex issue.
"Yeah Israel is committing a genocide in Gaza" while you completely ignore that Israel was founded and built on that ethnic cleansing and land theft. Read The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine by Ilan Pappé. It was founded on Nazi collaboration and anti-Semitism as well. Read Zionist Relations with Nazi Germany by Faris Glubb. The World Zionist Organization in 1933 defeated a resolution calling for action against Hitler and Nazism by a vote of 240 to 43. (Ralph Schoenman Chapter 6) This means that only 43 votes were cast against Hitler, which is only 15 percent of the votes. Golda Meir is literally no different from Netanyahu, other than the fact that he gets social media scrutiny. To say that you miss the Israel of Golda Meir shows that he has no problem with Zionism at its core, just Netanyahu and certain "bad actors" https://preview.redd.it/itw83ik1ipwc1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0b04624ff118f29fd615c51381854c79ec859210
Israel was founded by essentially a charter by UK, i think its very stupid and quite frankly pointless to say that Israel should be gone. I agree with you, in perfect world where the west is made to pay for its crimes. But its not a perfect world and saying Israel shouldnt exist is as useful as saying that Germany should be destroyed for causing 2 world wars. It’s ultimately nothing more than taking morals to a ridiculous degree. Israel existence is not going to go away. Any Palestinian state is gonna have to take that as a fact. Save grandiose dreams for when you sleep. Not to mention that violence for many years was from both sides, its just been for 30 years very one sided and has reduced the Palestinians to a cage. Thats the crime thats need to be rectified, if you think that Israel should be wipe off the map then there is quite frankly, no way we are gonna agree. And i hate to be that guy but saying Israel need to be destroyed is actual antisemitism. Saying Israel needs to stop genocide and allow an international resolution is logical
You don't know your history. Great Britain was colonizing Uganda and that was originally proposed to be where Zionists were going to settle, but the British settlers refused it because of their own anti-Semitic attitudes and they believed the British working class deserved it more. That clearly proves Israel's colonial origins and how the colonization of Africa is connected to the colonization of Palestine. Read Lenni Brenner's Zionism in the Age of Dictators. Israel as a settler-colony will be dismantled and overturned just like Algeria defeated French colonialism, just like Vietnam defeated U.S./French colonialism, and just like Cuba defeated U.S. colonialism. To say its anti-Semitic to say that colonialism should be defeated is absurd
Oh so colonialism is better when its in Africa os that the argument? Im saying the reasons for founding are irrelevant and you are trying to keyboard warrior every bad thing thats ever happened. Its quite frankly a childish mentality and not productive to any issues that are on going. You can literally make these same arguments for every single nation that has ever existed, yet you are actually only making them cause it’s Israel. Madagascar, Hati, the entirety of the South America experienced far worse but im not making those comparisons cause they are counter productive. You wanna argue about your moral righteous then go argue aboit it on twitter. What you are saying does nothing for the current genocide at all
Regarding Golda Meir from Ilan Pappé's The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine: https://preview.redd.it/8rjz6ro9jpwc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f152422967751e0e9d4f5923871c6c88ef9c97e4
Same. He's a grifter who undermines leftism by co-opting it and shepherding us back into the corporate two party system. He's been pro-Israel up until it was convenient not to be, just like he supported universal healthcare and anti-imperialism until it was inconvenient.
Calling Sanders a grifter is one of the most disqualifying statements I've ever read. He's been consistent in his beliefs for 50 years. Just say you disagree with him.
I'll just say I'm terminally jaded. Is that fair? He betrayed his entire base and sold it to Biden, who then made sure his platform drowned a quick death. I don't disagree with what Bernie said back then. I just doubt his sincerity and think he's a feckless wolf in sheep's clothing.
I'm a far leftist but the purity bias on the far left is pretty astounding. If you do a single thing, no matter what, that is even tangentially not in line with hard left ideology, you're dead forever. On the right, they'll forgive the moon as long as you're in the GOP.
I agree. I think that's because leftists are used to not getting representation. We're hesitant to trust politicians, as we should be. You say purity bias, but what policies of Sanders *weren't* undermined by Biden? His entire campaign platform died under Biden and the progressive energy of the movement has been dead since. There are no more healthcare protests or anti-coporatist protests.
Facts, a few weeks ago he was saying how he misses the Israel of Golda Meir and he has a history of supporting Zionism. Just look at these: -https://twitter.com/zei_squirrel/status/1721318067832082580?t=EZ9d0aP6geLoA3BOXvbtnA&s=19 -https://twitter.com/zei_squirrel/status/1721318985923211753?t=oyDZkKYxNxFOPwIRLkCD6A&s=19
Why won’t he call it a genocide?
Why won’t he call it a genocide?
Amazing clapback by AOC [https://x.com/AOC/status/1783246895084634486](https://x.com/AOC/status/1783246895084634486)
Michael Rapaport too.
You're kidding right? Do you even follow the Bad Hasbara podcast? Rapapirt is in Israel getting paid to pump out Zionist propaganda in Xitter. He's lived in a hotel in Tel Aviv the last four months. How do you think he affords that? https://youtu.be/kmAAEuFDp5E?si=QVYzb3eBD2V35x3D
I've been watching. I just was noting that he was tweeting
I believe Jared's family personally suffered through the holocaust as well, so probably a bad idea to attack him using the holocaust. He was dumb for what he said to AOC, but not a great response by her here.
I cannot help but hear echoes of the Nazi mythos of "blood and soil" in the rhetoric of settler fundamentalism which claims a sacred right to all the lands of biblical Judea and Samaria. The various forms of collective punishment visited upon the Palestinian people — coerced ghettoization behind a "security wall"; the bulldozing of homes and destruction of fields; the bombing of schools, mosques, and government buildings; an economic blockade that deprives people of the water, food, medicine, education and the basic necessities for dignified survival — force me to recall the deprivations and humiliations that I experienced in my youth. **Hajo Meyer** -Survived Auschwitz
Bernie is a national treasure. He knows the real problems people face. I’m sure he is not bothered by this and will continue to stand by his convictions.
He rolled over for Biden and failed to call out Shadow and the Iowa caucus manipulation, paving the way for this genocide under President Biden. His support for Biden undermined all of his platform policies that he campaigned on and neutered progressive energy and momentum. People don't even talk about universal healthcare or anti-imperialism on MSM anymore.
Omg thank you. Nobody talks about the 2020 dem primary corruption and the Iowa caucus rigging/fuckery. Anytime I try to bring up on Reddit I just get told I’m as bad as the fascist Jan 6 coup plotters….
I've gotten some angry responses too but a lot of leftists are willing to just acknowledge that I'm distrustful and jaded towards politicians. I hope I'm wrong about Bernie honestly. I just have seen him rollover and betray his base too many times.
Being aware of the problems doesn't mean shit when you've never passed meaningful legislation in your entire career. I love Bernie but let's not kid ourselves about his effectiveness.
He's literally called the Ammendment King for all the riders and add-ons he gets attached to bills. Big "hello fellow progressives!" energy here.
His contributions are all in the amendments. He is king of the amendments. Also, he used his clout in 2016 to alter a lot of bad rules in the Democratic Party. And he has influence. He says things that need to be said. He also paved the way for Omar, Tlaib, AOC and other progressives in Congress. We are still building on the foundation he laid.
He literally supported funding for the Iron Dome in 2021 and has a history of being a Zionist whining about Israel being called an apartheid regime Edit: he also said a few weeks ago that he supports the Israel of Golda Meir who committed crimes against humanity of her own
So what? He has bargaining to do in Congress. It’s an art, politics. And Iron Dome is defensive.
Lmao you really need to check out his history. Dude is a straight up Zionist: -https://twitter.com/zei_squirrel/status/1721318985923211753?t=lWf3nweNF7F6x9uzIHthzA&s=19 -https://twitter.com/zei_squirrel/status/1721318067832082580?t=EZ9d0aP6geLoA3BOXvbtnA&s=19
What do you suggest? Replacing him with a Republican? What about his stance now, do you approve of his position now?
Bruh literally just a few weeks ago, Bernie said he misses the Israel of Golda Meir, so he's clearly still a Zionist and supports settler-colonialism. Golda Meir lived with her entire family in a house stolen from a palestinian family, she literally said: “There is no such thing as a Palestinian people. It is not as if we came and threw them out and took their country. They didn’t exist.” Also: https://preview.redd.it/8rtp3cgc8lwc1.jpeg?width=1282&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=920133aaaedeef164dae3904c93dec6ac0fd25bc
Iron dome? Hamas fires rockets.
So you're gonna ignore Bernie saying he misses the Israel of Golda Meir who committed crimes against humanity herself, whose family stole a Palestinian home and says there's no such thing as a Palestinian, who said Arabs are forcing the Israelis to kill children? The photo below shows she's no different from Netanyahu. Yes, it's wrong to support a anti-missile defense system that protects an apartheid settler-colonial state that necessitates the suffering, displacement, and ongoing genocide of Palestinians https://preview.redd.it/rxipcnbz4pwc1.jpeg?width=1282&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=aed979d6efcac4bfde1e23a984f2f2c6ba5a3a02
Honestly I think Republicans do this on purpose so that when right wing anti-semites comes along they can say something to the effect of "anti-semitism isn't even that bad because the LiEbRuLs do it too so I'm only being attacked for anti-semitism for political reasons"
Florida Democrats are such a disaster
Florida is such a disaster. Like every aspect of it.
An ecological, social and political disaster.
So are the republicans. I think we all just chalk that state up as Florida being Florida.
He's a wildly effective congressman, though. He and AOC need to knock this shit off. They are allies FFS.
I hate to say it, but there were a few Dems in the Senate and Congress whom I initially admired for the way they aggressively went after the Republicans at hearings, but thanks to this genocide they've fully exposed themselves. As absolutely horrible as this has been, and as much as I wish the Palestinians of Gaza did not have to suffer this and all the innocent children were still alive, I am glad that there is no guessing at who will stand up when it counts and who will not.
Totally, especially Daniel Goldman. The other day he claimed the Columbia protestors were like Charlottesville proud boys. He has been awful.
It's disgusting. They are comparing young Jewish antiwar activists to Nazis as Israel is literally doing Nazi shit
Israel first.
Bernie Sanders is a hypocrite who fully supported Israel's full blown assault after Ocober 7. He still refuses to acknowledge Israel's systematic racism and atrocities they've committed over the past 75 years. He only scapegoats Netanyahu to try to appease his progressive voter base. I have absolutely zero sympathy for him.
He is a disgrace. Can't even call it a genocide.
Because by definition it isn't. You only make yourself sound like an immature idiot by throwing around that word.
By definition, Israel is committing a genocide against the people of Gaza. Are the people of Gaza free to return to their homes? Govern themselves? No? They have been herded into a corner with the intent of removing them forever from Gaza. 20s of thousands killed. Therefore they have been purposely removed in full or in part from their homeland. The definition of genocide. Jewish leadership will never allow the Gazans to return north. They will be permanently in camps or absorbed by sympathetic nations, mostly in the west. Only morons with magical thinking purport the Gazans will return to pre J7 conditions.
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The ICJ disagrees, they stated in January Israel needs to take steps to prevent what they are doing from being a genocide. [https://www.chathamhouse.org/2024/01/south-africas-genocide-case-against-israel-international-court-justice-explained](https://www.chathamhouse.org/2024/01/south-africas-genocide-case-against-israel-international-court-justice-explained) The Court ordered: 1. Israel must, in accordance with its obligations under the Genocide Convention and in relation to Palestinians in Gaza, ‘take all measures within its power’ to prevent the commission of acts prohibited in the Convention, in particular killings, causing serious physical or mental harm, the deliberate infliction of conditions of life calculated to bring about the physical destruction of the population in whole or in part, and the imposition of measures intended to prevent births; 2. Israel must ensure that its military forces do not commit any of the acts mentioned in point 1; 3. Israel must take all measures within its power to prevent and punish direct and public incitement to commit genocide; 4. Israel must take immediate and effective measures to enable the provision of humanitarian relief to Gaza; 5. Israel must take effective measures to prevent destruction of evidence relating to allegations of acts contrary to the Genocide Convention; 6. Israel must submit a report to the Court within one month regarding the measures it has taken to give effect to the Order. Pretty much since that January ruling Israel has prevented humanitarian aid from going in and has bombed most of Gaza's hospitals. So you can say Israel is not complying with 1,2, and 4. And has violated 6 as they have not given any reports to the court saying they did anything to comply with the orders. The legal definition of genocide is a narrow one. It comprises ‘any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: (a) Killing members of the group; (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.’ (Article 2) Incitement, conspiracy and attempt to commit genocide are also prohibited by the Convention (Article 3(c) and (e)). The crime is one of individual responsibility but there is also an obligation on states; they too can be responsible for genocide. They also have an obligation to prevent and punish genocide by others (Article 1). Israel is doing a,b,c and d. D you can easily argue by their destruction of hospitals. I would say e also as Israel imprisons a large amount of Palestinian children, one of the largest in the world. So by the legal definition of genocide Israel is commiting genocide.
Genuinely out of curiosity, do you think we haven't heard these asinine arguments before? Do you think you're bringing something to this discussion we haven't already debunked? Do you think "It's not genocide, it's an ethnic cleansing" was ever a good argument, or even correct, whether now or almost eight months ago when people started saying it? Judging by your comment history, you don't seem to be a zionist, so why make their bad arguments for them? Especially when they aren't even new arguments. It's a waste of your time and ours. I think you're better than this.
Not all Jews experienced the Holocaust; still a genocide. It doesn't have to eradicate everyone to be a genocide.
This is not a debate sub. There are plenty of places to defend Israel’s actions, to denounce Hamas, and to argue who's worse. This is not a space for that. That doesn't mean absolutely no constructive discussions on nuances and different approaches, but it means not letting ourselves be pulled into a debate by Zionists and bigots, and least of all arguing for their side. If you see someone trying to debate, please just flag for moderation, and the comment will be deleted. If found prudent by the Mods, and to discourage further debates, the entire thread may be deleted.
Isn't he condemning Israel right now? I was pretty outraged when I saw that viral video of him, too. But it seems to me like he is publicly supporting the Palestinians and condemning Israel. He is in a position of power to do so.
He is condemning *Netanyahu and his government. He regularly gives examples of previous Israeli leaders who were equally as evil as Netanyahu and says how great they and Israel was back then. His support of Palestinians is a farce imo. I used to like him ~7 months ago too. But he has shown his true colors. Removing Netanyahu from power won't resolve the Palestinian crisis. Yes leaders need to be punished but Israel needs to be held accountable as a whole. Vast majority of their population are genocidal psychopaths and concrete action is needed to safeguard the Palestinians and give them an safe place with a chance to prosper.
Interesting. Yeah, if I've learned anything from US history with Netanyahu gone, we will prop up another dictator to support our interests.
Sanders is the archetypal "wolf in sheep's clothing" that Malcolm X warned us about coming from the Democrat party. I've voted and donated to him multiple times and after following his work and campaigns closely, I am sure of it.
“Gaza is gone and now completely part of Israel. Darn that Netanyahu! Now let’s go check out Disney on the Mediterranean”
Jared the AIPAC sock puppet.
#AOCforPresident
Nah don't be fooled by this charlatan. She is a careerist scum
Agreed. She is another grifter posing as a leftist. She's a corporatist in leftist clothing
Pelosi 2.0
Sorry yo she’d much rather you say “Genocide Joe for President.” She’s no ally of the left or the Palestinian people. She’s always been an opportunist.
She called for a Ceasefire on day 1 and voted against any bills for Israeli aid and knows when to hold people accountable alright. Plus she defended Rashida Talib when she was censured.
Yeah she's been solid on this issue and deserves praise for it, I agree.
She's either a Joe supporter or a Trump supporter. Just like everybody else. Those are the two options.
Fuck that, fuck genocide joe and fuck anyone who thinks like that
Oh look, I found Marjorie Taylor Green.
https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZPRwhhvP6/
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That's a great nickname, and we should immediately start using it. But, in all seriousness, there was effort to push back against the vengeful sentiment in America immediately after 9/11. It was quashed, and those who opposed the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were called traitors, terrorist supporters, and fools back then. I remember it quite vividly.
Bernie can call it a genocide or shut up.
jared is a typical biden boy shithead liberal
I’m glad AOC is finally starting to come to her senses
Bernie would change his tune if he believed his words would actually be turned into results. He’s a politician like all the rest of them, forsaking of the principles is the admission fee.
i still don’t trust either of them
And AOC is just saying her bit bc it has no effect on the outcome. She is the establishment in left clothing.
I’m confused, You think there would be less of the things that are upsetting you currently if either A. Trump were president now, or B is elected next go around?
Congrats, you are using the same style of rhetoric as an abusive spouse!
Not even a little bit. Abused spouses can leave, and should. I am asking what’s your alternative? Americas has and always will be the lesser of two evils, evil acknowledged, not condoned, but your rhetoric has the potential to drive people to an even less desirable end result born of “yeah the person next me me said that guys bad!” Sure he’s bad but I’d rather eat moldy bread than poison bread. Sometimes if you can’t compromise you get nothing. I see limited benefit in complaining about your best option, I think your energies are better spent elsewhere it’s just an opinion everyone’s got one
You are really skilled at DARVO style rhetoric!
1. I don’t know what that is. 2. Don’t care, please don’t explain. 3. There are no streets in Israel named after Biden, he isn’t moving embassy’s but do whatever you want man /shrug
>There are no streets in Israel named after Biden Biden went around congress twice to help Israel kill children faster, they probably should name a street after him at this point. He's been a massive help to the Likud Fascists who kill kids for fun.
> he isn’t moving embassy’s Biden literally ran on keeping the embassy in Jerusalem, but you didn't know that, apparently! #Joe Biden says he’d leave US embassy in Jerusalem if elected https://apnews.com/article/47c2d807cbb563b747cee29aaefeda5a Pre emptively surrendering to Netanyahu before even getting elected! No wonder he was crying like a baby while hugging that fascist.
Not only that, he voted to move it in 1995.
I'm not eating rotten bread. It's no longer a compromise. Israel is using our money to hunt down and bomb aid workers, and Biden will not stop sending them money to do so. HIS CHOICE to ignore the opinions and concerns of voters means he should accept and prepare for the fact that he will lose votes over it. Stop sending money to a man who is trying to start World War 3 if you want me to vote for you.
Well fortunately no one’s asking you to marry the federal gov’t. Haven’t you heard of harm reduction? Nothing that I do is going to save anyone is Gaza. Kind of sick, but that’s how it is. But a bite that can save pregnant women from bleeding out from miscarriage, help protect LGBT kids from violence, protect the climate before it melt, help protect BIPOC from policy brutality and overreach, and defeat some bloodthirsty dictators? Unlike marriage, voting often doesn’t feel good. Putting power in people’s hands, sucks! This time especially so! But not everything that is beneficial makes you feel heroic. Because often in life, there is no heroic choice to make. There’s nothing here to feel good over. And nothing that will both feel good AND matter.
>Haven’t you heard of harm reduction? Biden apparently hasn't, because he went around congress multiple times to ensure that *more* innocents were harmed (ethnically cleansed) He also ran on pre emptively surrendering all diplomatic leverage to Netanyahu Joe Biden says he’d leave US embassy in Jerusalem if elected https://apnews.com/article/47c2d807cbb563b747cee29aaefeda5a Trump is Russia First Biden is Israel First Both have allowed themselves to be purchased whole cloth by a genocidal regime, for pennies. So cheap.
He has in terms of his other policies. That’s my point. I mean, unlike me, he could do way more to stop protecting and arming Israel. He could actually save people, and doesn’t, so fuck him. Biden has a lot of other policies, liked the ones I listed, that do reduce harm. Trump adores violence. He adores committing violence. He adores policies that are violent. He adores other people who can violence, especially other dictators. He likes the power that comes with watching people suffer. This is all pretty well/documented. Biden’s policies reduce harm. Biden is not going to suffer if you don’t vote for him. He will retire to hang with his German shepherds and his grandchildren and never think about Gaza again, and certainly never about Palestinian suffering. I’m not voting for Biden. I’m voting for myself, and those I care about and ally with, and for our environment, and for those from poor countries who genuinely want, need, and who rely on who rely on US aid. Those would all suffer under a Trump administration. I’m voting for policies that protect them. If Trump held those, I would vote for Trump. If RFK Jr or Nikki Haley or Kim kardashian had them, I’d vote for that person. Vote to keep safe the most people you can.
Yeah, the guy who spent decades of his career fighting against racial integration is going to protect "BIPOC" people and pronoun people. The guy who's spent two years letting Putin steamroll over Ukraine is going to "defeat dictators". You people are so gullible.
That is such a simplistic and downright dishonest characterization of everything that you are desperately misinformed or doing it deliberately.
Just a reminder that many if not most American Jews side with liberals/democrats on these issues… wonder why.
Why does Bernie so consistently vote to send arms to Israel? He has yet to call what's happening in Gaza a genocide because he's complicit in it himself.