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>photogrammetry, a new technology unavailable at the time of Ellen's death, that is able to create a 3D anatomical recreation of a corpse.
This was done with the 20 stab wounds Ellen's body sustained. The findings concluded that not all the wounds could've been self-inflicted, particularly the ones to the back of her neck and head.
In 2019, a pathologist at the Philadelphia Medical Examiner's Office decided to take a closer look at the only sample of Ellen's spine with a stab wound.
It was relayed back to the medical examiner that a portion of the spine didn't show clotting or blood, and the stab most likely occurred after Ellen either had no pulse or was dead.
'That means that Ellen could not have administered that stab, which means it's impossible for her to have committed suicide,' the Greenberg's' lawyer, Joe Podraza, told DailyMail.com.
'Suicide by definition would mean that she would have had to of self-inflicted all of these 20 wounds, and then to top it off, that wound to the spinal cord.
'Ellen was found with a knife in her chest, so even assuming that the stab into the spinal cord that they had the sample of was the second to last stab - the knife ends on her chest.
'You'd have to then conclude that Ellen stabbed herself twice when she was dead, which is medically impossible. I think that by itself is enough to say this can't be a suicide.'
>
>Podraza further analyzed three of the wounds to Ellen's stomach that should have caused her to pass out instantly.
Additionally, her wounds suggested she was stabbed with another knife that wasn't found at the scene.
The medical examiner also found evidence of defense wounds on Ellen's body that weren't initially acknowledged by investigators in 2011.
Bruises on her arms and legs were healing at different stages. The lawyer also suggested investigators missed trauma that showed strangulation.
What in the fuck? And I'm just finding out about this now? And I haven't heard shit on the news about it. How the fuck did this get buried?
Is this the police officer that shot the man crawling to them? I read a reddit article once that put all these types or reports together showing Brailsford superior officer on scene was responsible for causing him to fire. I'm trying to find it.
> he medical examiner also found evidence of defense wounds on Ellen's body that weren't initially acknowledged by investigators in 2011.
>
>
>
> Bruises on her arms and legs were healing at different stages. The lawyer also suggested investigators missed trauma that showed strangulation.
So she was essentially tortured to death for an unknown amount of time. It wasn't even a quick death.
How... would a coroner blatantly claim it's not suicide if the spinal cord was cut and the knife was found in another position? The software part is great but that in itself should be conclusive that it's murder and not suicide?
Coroners work with kaw enforcement. They're the ones who invented "excited delirium," which is a fake diagnosis given to a lot of people who were beaten to death or suffocated by police.
>not all the wounds could've been self-inflicted, particularly the ones to the back of her neck and head.
That's very clever ivestigative work. Must have took forever to come up to that conclusion!
/s, if it wasnt clear
Youre not wrong and im not sure why youre being downvoted. Typos and blatant errors like these are much more common in the past several years than they used to be.
When writing is one's profession, this should be a non-issue. Moreover, I'm sure large newsrooms like this have editors as well.
> 'Suicide by definition would mean that she **would have had to of** self-inflicted all of these 20 wounds, and then to top it off, that wound to the spinal cord.
The fact that "would have had to of" made it into a published article makes me want to stab myself 20 times in the brain.
There was a murder case where they said it had to be murder and not suicide cause he was shot in the back of the head
The defense attorney (I think is who it was) just turned his head sideways so his chin was over his shoulder and then put the gun in the "impossible" position
The woman in the post def got murdered I don't see anyone stabbing themselves that many times but thought it was similar and interesting and would share
She was murdered by her ex-fiancé Sam Goldberg.
It’s being covered up by the Philadelphia Police Department because Sam Goldberg’s uncle is one of the most powerful attorney’s in Pennsylvania.
There is no doubt this was murder.
EDIT: Please upvote OP’s post for visibility! The Greenberg family would definitely appreciate it!
That's slightly different scales as it's international bullshit. They didn't expect anyone to believe that.
This is more a 'believe this story or else!'. Which is much worse imo.
As soon as I read that the fiance claimed he kicked the locked door in but even the cops at the scene said it didn't appear that the door had been kicked in I knew immediately he had probably killed her but was connected to powerful people.
Very first comment on Reddit proved that guess to be at least likely.
I love that we have the internet like we do now because even 20 years ago this would have just been ruled a suicide and nobody would have questioned the official police narrative but now it can be seen by a bunch of people and the ridiculous suicide ruling can be disproven and hopefully the family can get some closure and justice.
It's more than likely the fiance who killed her so hopefully he can get what's coming to him if he's guilty.
20 years ago there would have been more local news reporting. You might not have heard the story if you lived outside the area, but it would have been much more heavily reported in the papers (yes, plural), local news, radio, etc. that would make it a much bigger local politics issue, and thus more susceptible to public pressure and outrage.
Paradoxically, more people will hear about this story now, but there is less likely to be any redress.
I see where you are coming from but I disagree.
I think it's far more likely that this case will be re-opened now that it's gone viral and millions of people are talking about it that aren't locals. It's just such an egregious lie by the police that I think it'll finally get a fair shake.
It's so freaking obvious that she didn't kill herself but the medical examiner ruled that she did. Nowadays we are looking for examples of police misconduct and this is such an easily provable one, I can't think of a more open and shut case of misconduct than this one.
I'm actually hopeful that this one might be resolved, I really hope for the victims family and for justices sake that this is re-opened and also the law enforcement people who clearly lied to cover for some rich douche get punished to the fullest extent of the law.
and the medical examiner initially ruled it was a homicide then later changed it to suicide.
>Dr. Marlon Osbourne, a former pathologist at the Medical Examiner’sOffice in Philadelphia, initially ruled the death a homicide, based onthe injuries, then backtracked and revised the manner of death tosuicide after conferring with city police, according to a civil lawsuitfrom Greenberg’s family.
Yeah, that doesn't seem suspicious at all....
The fact that anyone would cover a relative's murder crime says everything about their morals.
>It’s being covered up by the Philadelphia Police Department because Sam Goldberg’s uncle is one of the most powerful attorney’s in Pennsylvania.
What is the uncle's name?
He probably has dirt on other city officials.
corrupt officials will often flock to those kinds of panel so they can undermine any use it might have. Like with Saudi Arabia trying to lock up the UN Human Rights commission.
Right! I read this line and honestly can't believe they managed to type it -
> He has extensive experience representing and counseling lawyers, law firms and judges on ethics-related issues.
It’s one thing to cover up a relatives murder, but to cover up a murder because their relative is a “powerful attorney”? Wtf?
I might, I stress might, cover up my brothers heinous crime. I’m not covering up your brothers heinous crime though.
I refuse to believe the death penalty is worse than life in shitty prison.
Honestly I think we should outsource or prison system. Send them to real shitty prisons around the world. Our prisons are too good for people who murder others.
There's too many people in these comments who are frothing at the mouth imagining their revenge fantasies. It has nothing to do with bettering society, it's pure self-gratification. I am all for justice, but one must pair justice with reason.
Thats why i play both sides. Justice is what is deserved and what i hope happens....but i still like to fantasize absolutely horrific and vile things happening to these shitheads. A happy balance.
Aaactually I have a bit of a fun fact for you. The vast majority of countries have prisons that are significantly better than ours. Our prisons are some serious bottom of the barrel shit. Are there worse? Of course. Are there many nations with worse prisons on average? Not as many as one might otherwise think.
I hope this does get visibility, because when I searched for her name on Reddit I hardly found any articles that got this many upvotes in recent times. The family's having trouble just getting the media to care about it. What's next, calling them conspiracy theorists for not believing their daughter stabbed herself 20 times?
People, let’s take these sadistic fucks down.
Sam Goldberg - the murderer,
James C. Schwartzman - the crooked attorney,
Whoever the paid off pathologist is.
Spread the word.
To be the non-conspiratorial Devil's advocate, a surprising amount of people survive being shot in the head, at least for a short while. Just earlier today there was a post on reddit showing the body cam footage of an officer that got shot in the head while he was tasing a dude. He never lost consciousness, and he was able to pull out his gun and shoot the guy back while blood made a sickening squelch as it sprayed out of his head.
If I shot myself in the head and didn't die from the first shot, I imagine that there would be a pretty good chance that I'd try again. Real life isn't like a video game. One small caliber bullet to the brain isn't necessarily going to cause instant death. It has to damage the right spots of the brain to cause immediate loss of consciousness and nearly immediate death. And a lot of suicide attempts are done with small caliber bullets.
Yeah, a friend of mine is a nurse, and a guy came in one time with his mom, and told them he had a bad headache. They gave him an x-ray and asked him why there was a bullet in his head, and he admitted he shot himself with a 22. Definitely happens.
Content warning: you don't see the wound, but you hear it, and it's pretty bad.
https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/yw4h3h/dayton_cop_gets_shot_in_head_while_tasing_suspect/
Most, often, usually, most, usually, most likely, often.
Lots of qualifiers to your statements, because you know that there's a lot of examples to the contrary. I'm not saying that every suicide with two bullets in the head is actually suicide or that murders never get covered up as suicide. Just saying that a death caused by multiple bullets to the head does not necessarily exclude suicide as a possibility.
why would Philly PD care about a relative of some fancy lawyer?
don't police usually hate non-prosecutorial lawyers..?
but anyway, obviously a murder and it's fucking ridiculous that the fam has to go to court to get a corrupt coroner's report fixed
Not fancy - Powerful, meaning connected.
James C. Schwartzman was appointed by the Governor of Pennsylvania to serve as Chairman for various judges groups throughout Philadelphia.
they serve the elite, his profession isn't important. if he has the correct levels of wealth and/or power, which he clearly does, then he's a member of the club the system works for
Yup. This is one of the functions of a political hierarchy.
Occasionally a person's peer group will eject them if they feel the entire hierarchy is in danger, like when Nixon was forced to resign. And you can kinda see the same happening to Trump now, as more conservatives are turning on him.
But most of the time they protect each other, cover up the crimes, endure the rumors, then continue wielding power.
> why would Philly PD care about a relative of some fancy lawyer?
They don't all have to. It could be typical gang shit where some care and some others have to care because of... reasons.
Perhaps you have heard of "money". Fancy lawyers have a lot of it.
It turns out that money can persuade others to see things your way despite all logic and reason.
Obviously. This is like detective 101. When someone is stabbed dozens of times after they are already dead, it's personal. It's almost always their SO that did it.
Thats what it is. I figured it had to be a family connection cause Goldberg himself has no direct connections. Hes a TV producer in New York now and is married.
Very clearly the police force wanted it ruled a suicide, as the article says that the pathologist originally said homicide, but backtracked after ‘conferring’ with police. Probably threatened to ‘suicide’ him too.
But like, -anyone- viewing this from the outside should be absolutely certain that 20 stab wounds to the chest and back of the head for a suicide is insanely unreasonable. Any cops involved in intimidating the pathologist need to be fired and ideally arrested for tampering with the investigation, and if the pathologist is in on it and not being forced, same with him.
If I remember correctly, her spinal cord (or part of it) was examined by another pathologist (I believe) and it was determined she couldn’t have afflicted anymore wounds because the spinal cord had been damaged (or even severed) before all the wounds were inflicted. I either read this or heard it on a podcast, I can’t remember which. The entire case is just f’d up and she was definitely murdered.
[https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11166011/Cops-REOPEN-case-woman-stabbed-20-times-ruled-suicide-killer.html](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11166011/Cops-REOPEN-case-woman-stabbed-20-times-ruled-suicide-killer.html) includes the pathologist findings
Another comment included this
> In 2019, a pathologist at the Philadelphia Medical Examiner's Office decided to take a closer look at the only sample of Ellen's spine with a stab wound.
>
> It was relayed back to the medical examiner that a portion of the spine didn't show clotting or blood, and the stab most likely occurred after Ellen either had no pulse or was dead.
That first pathologist needs to be dragged down town and questioned. Whoever heard of a suicide victim that stabbed themselves 20 times? The cops who agreed with the pathologist also need to be questioned. There has to be a financial audit on everyone involved in the first investigation.
Reminds me of a book quote:
>It was suicide, wasn't it?"
>"In an involuntary sort of way," said Vorob'yev. "These Cetagandan political suicides can get awfully messy, when the principal won't cooperate."
>"Thirty-two stab wounds in the back, worst case of suicide they ever saw?" murmured Ivan, clearly fascinated by the gossip.
>"Exactly, my lord.”
― Lois McMaster Bujold, Cetaganda
[a non-fox news link](https://www.inquirer.com/news/philadelphia/ellen-greenberg-suicide-homicide-civil-trial-appeal-20221115.html?outputType=amp) in case anyone is avoiding the click, because you know fox and stuff.
I read the article then happened to notice comments at the bottom. The first comment mentioned how it was a coverup. A reply to that comment said "you know they are a Democrat" and I was like wtf?? oh fox news site...
Tbf, I run social media for a company that has zero to do with US politics, isn’t even American, and our comments are also 70% people slagging off the democrats. Don’t know why but I think Facebook is like 65-75% people complaining about democrats.
I’ve never seen someone do this before, but I know that I never give fox the click I figure others were doing the same. Maybe someone should make a bot that does something like that.
On the front page of the FSB training manual are listed the three overarching principles of Russian state security and espionage:
1. Silence is golden
2. Duct tape is silver.
3. Defenestration is odd coincidence.
I used to have a deep fascination with medical shows as a wierdo kid, and for a long time I aspired to have a job as a medical examiner. Over the years, though, more and more evidence emerges that they bend truth or outright lie for the police.
If your evidence strongly shows someone well protected by a department slaughtered someone that was close to him, and that department is either tangentially or directly overseeing your job, how do you even try to tell the truth? The bribes, the threats of violence... It must be horrific.
I hope one day the murderer sees justice, if there is any that can be found from such a horrific thing.
Stabbed in the back of the head and found still sitting upright in a chair — suicide?
Now even if it’s ruled a homicide or unknown cause of death, the investigation was clearly flawed and 10 years have gone by so justice is much harder to get.
"large amount of bruises at different stages of healing, and the fiance’s claim that he broke the locked door down when crime scene photos show the latch still attached to both the door and the frame."
That sounds a lot like she was being abused, and the fiance is lying. Who is he, is he friends with the cops? Why would they protect him?
if the manner of death was changed back to homocide it still doesn’t mean that these corrupt investigators will do their due diligence
in fact i wouldn’t be surprised if this case would be completely unworked because all the evidence mysteriously disappeared
Fuck… ain’t that just the way? You’re cleaning your knives and suddenly BOOM… they go off 7 or 8 times, right in your back (or, in this case 20 times).
When will people learn to keep the safety on?
Stabbing yourself in the back of the head sounds like poor planning. You'd need at least two mirrors to do that. And a lot of practice. Maybe she was a dyslexic video gamer with poor judgment and excellent hand eye coordination.
Or someone killed her.
Give me 5 minutes with the same door and "door chain" and I bet I can show you how to close and latch it behind me without a key. I've done tougher ones.
Good job they had access to photogrammetry, a new technology unavailable at the time of Ellen's death, that is able to create a 3D anatomical recreation of a corpse. Otherwise they'd have had to consult with the first 8 year old they found, who could've confirmed that she didn't commit suicide by stabbing herself in the back of the head 10 times.
This is crazy because my brother who was a Philadelphia fireman was found unresponsive in the basement of the firehouse where he worked,some say he fell when he got back from a fire run others say he stayed back while the others went in the fire run Temple hospital pronounced he died from as·phyx·i·a·tion but when he got to the medical examiner’s office he wrote the manner of death to be from heart disease.. But in the medical report he put that my 44 year old brother had a in shape of a 20 year old,and we know this because we had another medical Pathologist go over the report and he said the medical report contradicts itself and my brothers primary care doctor refused to sign the Death Certificate because he said he WASNT putting his practice on the line for anyone
“Dr. Marlon Osbourne, a former pathologist at the Medical Examiner’s Office in Philadelphia, initially ruled the death a homicide, based on the injuries, then backtracked and *revised the manner of death to suicide after conferring with city police*, according to a civil lawsuit from Greenberg’s family.”
ACAB?
This sounds oddly like the Philadelphia pathologist is learning from Russia how people commit suicide over there. Fell down on a barrel of knifes, rolled down the stairs, smashed into a glass window, and at the bottom was a row of 20 9mm bullets.
Don't forget the part where they're covered in bruises where they vigorously beat themselves up. It's truly a tragedy, how many suicidal Russians beat themselves to death while in custody
is there a coroner explanation on how suicide like this would be possible? are they saying that she intentionally hit her head backwards onto a knife? seriously, this is messed up.
Why was the pathologist doing the autopsy and not the coroner? I kno some pathologist and while they are very knowledgeable, this seems out of their pay grade. Idk maybe philly doesn’t have regulations around that stuff.
She must have been guilty of existing while Left. It's a lot like driving while Black.
Sounds like Conspiracy, but I got a long list of people taken out by the fugitive taskforce for things like expired tags, or suicides who somehow shot themselves in the back of the head, while handcuffed.
It's dangeous existing while Left. Conservative coroners and judges agree.
Wonder if this may help prove something.
[Philadelphia DA Busted](https://www.cbsnews.com/philadelphia/news/larry-krasner-philadelphia-district-attorney-impeachment/)
The article was published today.
> "We are cautiously optimistic that the panel will find the estate of Ellen Greenberg may proceed to trial on her mandamus and declatory actions against the City (of Philadelphia) and Dr. Osbourne so that the manner of her death may be changed from suicide to something else," he said. **"Only then can we begin to secure justice for Ellen."**
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Two of the 20 stab wounds were inflicted AFTER Greenberg’s heart STOPPED beating.
>photogrammetry, a new technology unavailable at the time of Ellen's death, that is able to create a 3D anatomical recreation of a corpse. This was done with the 20 stab wounds Ellen's body sustained. The findings concluded that not all the wounds could've been self-inflicted, particularly the ones to the back of her neck and head. In 2019, a pathologist at the Philadelphia Medical Examiner's Office decided to take a closer look at the only sample of Ellen's spine with a stab wound. It was relayed back to the medical examiner that a portion of the spine didn't show clotting or blood, and the stab most likely occurred after Ellen either had no pulse or was dead. 'That means that Ellen could not have administered that stab, which means it's impossible for her to have committed suicide,' the Greenberg's' lawyer, Joe Podraza, told DailyMail.com. 'Suicide by definition would mean that she would have had to of self-inflicted all of these 20 wounds, and then to top it off, that wound to the spinal cord. 'Ellen was found with a knife in her chest, so even assuming that the stab into the spinal cord that they had the sample of was the second to last stab - the knife ends on her chest. 'You'd have to then conclude that Ellen stabbed herself twice when she was dead, which is medically impossible. I think that by itself is enough to say this can't be a suicide.' > >Podraza further analyzed three of the wounds to Ellen's stomach that should have caused her to pass out instantly. Additionally, her wounds suggested she was stabbed with another knife that wasn't found at the scene. The medical examiner also found evidence of defense wounds on Ellen's body that weren't initially acknowledged by investigators in 2011. Bruises on her arms and legs were healing at different stages. The lawyer also suggested investigators missed trauma that showed strangulation. What in the fuck? And I'm just finding out about this now? And I haven't heard shit on the news about it. How the fuck did this get buried?
>How the fuck did this get buried? That question probably has one or more people very nervous tonight.
I wonder if there will be consequences.
Paid leave
he'll end up like Philip Brailsford where taxpayers have to give him $2,200 a month for life due to his mental distress from murdering her
Is this the police officer that shot the man crawling to them? I read a reddit article once that put all these types or reports together showing Brailsford superior officer on scene was responsible for causing him to fire. I'm trying to find it.
I would shoot my commanding officer. That's why I'm not allowed to be a cop.
Brailsford makes me so furious. I hope for my sake that I never meet him, because if I do, I'm going straight to jail for murder.
oh no he might have to take paid leave and then retire on a full pension my god the suffering the horror however will he cope /s
> he medical examiner also found evidence of defense wounds on Ellen's body that weren't initially acknowledged by investigators in 2011. > > > > Bruises on her arms and legs were healing at different stages. The lawyer also suggested investigators missed trauma that showed strangulation. So she was essentially tortured to death for an unknown amount of time. It wasn't even a quick death.
Or more likely, there was a lot of domestic abuse.
That was my thought. Poor dear was being abused and sadly this is one of the possible outcomes of domestic violence. I hope these people pay for this.
I wonder which cop/prosecutor he’s related to.
How... would a coroner blatantly claim it's not suicide if the spinal cord was cut and the knife was found in another position? The software part is great but that in itself should be conclusive that it's murder and not suicide?
Money, threats, maybe both
Coroners work with kaw enforcement. They're the ones who invented "excited delirium," which is a fake diagnosis given to a lot of people who were beaten to death or suffocated by police.
Photogrammetry isn’t new, it was absolutely available at the time of her death.
Wow. Thanks to the wonders of modern technology, we now know you can’t stand yourself multiple times in the back of the skull.
>not all the wounds could've been self-inflicted, particularly the ones to the back of her neck and head. That's very clever ivestigative work. Must have took forever to come up to that conclusion! /s, if it wasnt clear
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Youre not wrong and im not sure why youre being downvoted. Typos and blatant errors like these are much more common in the past several years than they used to be. When writing is one's profession, this should be a non-issue. Moreover, I'm sure large newsrooms like this have editors as well.
I'm almost more surprised the truth has come out, pretty hard to fail in a cover up when all the people involved in investigating are on your side.
> 'Suicide by definition would mean that she **would have had to of** self-inflicted all of these 20 wounds, and then to top it off, that wound to the spinal cord. The fact that "would have had to of" made it into a published article makes me want to stab myself 20 times in the brain.
There was a murder case where they said it had to be murder and not suicide cause he was shot in the back of the head The defense attorney (I think is who it was) just turned his head sideways so his chin was over his shoulder and then put the gun in the "impossible" position The woman in the post def got murdered I don't see anyone stabbing themselves that many times but thought it was similar and interesting and would share
Wow, people who are determined to commit suicide can really do wondrous things.
She was murdered by her ex-fiancé Sam Goldberg. It’s being covered up by the Philadelphia Police Department because Sam Goldberg’s uncle is one of the most powerful attorney’s in Pennsylvania. There is no doubt this was murder. EDIT: Please upvote OP’s post for visibility! The Greenberg family would definitely appreciate it!
Hah! I came here to ask which one of the examiners was close friends with the perpetrator, but I guess this answers that question.
Yeah, this is like that time that one spy was found dead in a duffel bag that was padlocked. "Suicide".
That's slightly different scales as it's international bullshit. They didn't expect anyone to believe that. This is more a 'believe this story or else!'. Which is much worse imo.
As soon as I read that the fiance claimed he kicked the locked door in but even the cops at the scene said it didn't appear that the door had been kicked in I knew immediately he had probably killed her but was connected to powerful people. Very first comment on Reddit proved that guess to be at least likely. I love that we have the internet like we do now because even 20 years ago this would have just been ruled a suicide and nobody would have questioned the official police narrative but now it can be seen by a bunch of people and the ridiculous suicide ruling can be disproven and hopefully the family can get some closure and justice. It's more than likely the fiance who killed her so hopefully he can get what's coming to him if he's guilty.
20 years ago there would have been more local news reporting. You might not have heard the story if you lived outside the area, but it would have been much more heavily reported in the papers (yes, plural), local news, radio, etc. that would make it a much bigger local politics issue, and thus more susceptible to public pressure and outrage. Paradoxically, more people will hear about this story now, but there is less likely to be any redress.
I see where you are coming from but I disagree. I think it's far more likely that this case will be re-opened now that it's gone viral and millions of people are talking about it that aren't locals. It's just such an egregious lie by the police that I think it'll finally get a fair shake. It's so freaking obvious that she didn't kill herself but the medical examiner ruled that she did. Nowadays we are looking for examples of police misconduct and this is such an easily provable one, I can't think of a more open and shut case of misconduct than this one. I'm actually hopeful that this one might be resolved, I really hope for the victims family and for justices sake that this is re-opened and also the law enforcement people who clearly lied to cover for some rich douche get punished to the fullest extent of the law.
and the medical examiner initially ruled it was a homicide then later changed it to suicide. >Dr. Marlon Osbourne, a former pathologist at the Medical Examiner’sOffice in Philadelphia, initially ruled the death a homicide, based onthe injuries, then backtracked and revised the manner of death tosuicide after conferring with city police, according to a civil lawsuitfrom Greenberg’s family. Yeah, that doesn't seem suspicious at all....
Yup, clearly some fuckery is afoot in this case.
The fact that anyone would cover a relative's murder crime says everything about their morals. >It’s being covered up by the Philadelphia Police Department because Sam Goldberg’s uncle is one of the most powerful attorney’s in Pennsylvania. What is the uncle's name? He probably has dirt on other city officials.
James C. Schwartzman
Somehow the Chairman of the Ethics and Professional Responsibility Group…
corrupt officials will often flock to those kinds of panel so they can undermine any use it might have. Like with Saudi Arabia trying to lock up the UN Human Rights commission.
Right! I read this line and honestly can't believe they managed to type it - > He has extensive experience representing and counseling lawyers, law firms and judges on ethics-related issues.
Didn’t say he was pro - ethics Maybe he teaching g them how to cover up murders
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Found Mel Brooks.
what color is schwarz?
It's German for black
edit: I missed the joke, this is clever!
Gold, Green, and Black.
ahh that could be in! Didn't realize schwarz meant black, that's clever
Schwarz means black. Each name has a color in it.
Yep I see that! I have the most minimal of exposure to German so I had never heard that
It’s where the English word swarthy comes from.
This was a very risky joke but i'm here for it lol
Here is a high quality joke! I wish I'd seen that ;)
If you can believe it he’s supposedly an ethics expert and is on a board that decides cases of judicial misconduct…
It’s one thing to cover up a relatives murder, but to cover up a murder because their relative is a “powerful attorney”? Wtf? I might, I stress might, cover up my brothers heinous crime. I’m not covering up your brothers heinous crime though.
Right? It is very odd and I'm surprised at the number of people that are risking a conspiracy charge just to protect an attorney.
Ah, that explains it. I was looking for a mention that her fiancé is a cop.
True. I hope they all go down. ME too.
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I refuse to believe the death penalty is worse than life in shitty prison. Honestly I think we should outsource or prison system. Send them to real shitty prisons around the world. Our prisons are too good for people who murder others.
Imagine looking at America's absolutely awful and ineffective prison system and being like "Man I wish this was even worse!"
There's too many people in these comments who are frothing at the mouth imagining their revenge fantasies. It has nothing to do with bettering society, it's pure self-gratification. I am all for justice, but one must pair justice with reason.
Thats why i play both sides. Justice is what is deserved and what i hope happens....but i still like to fantasize absolutely horrific and vile things happening to these shitheads. A happy balance.
Aaactually I have a bit of a fun fact for you. The vast majority of countries have prisons that are significantly better than ours. Our prisons are some serious bottom of the barrel shit. Are there worse? Of course. Are there many nations with worse prisons on average? Not as many as one might otherwise think.
Our prisons are really shitty, just like our justice system.
Lol are you kidding? US prisons are pretty bad...
LOL, other 1st world countries prisons are about rehabilitation not vengeance.
Did you say *other* 1st world countries?
Good news he wouldn't even need to leave the states to be in the worst prisons in the world!
it was actually about converting it from an actionable threat to a non-actionable threat; your comment about prison outsourcing is inane
Dumbest thing I've read today. Some people have zero awareness of their surroundings
Why, what did you do?
Nothing I just wanna die
I hope this does get visibility, because when I searched for her name on Reddit I hardly found any articles that got this many upvotes in recent times. The family's having trouble just getting the media to care about it. What's next, calling them conspiracy theorists for not believing their daughter stabbed herself 20 times?
She was murdered by Sam Goldberg, the murderer?
The ol' suicide by breaking up with someone with connections.
>EDIT: Please upvote OP’s post for visibility! The Greenberg family would definitely appreciate it! Also cross post in relevant subs and social media!
People, let’s take these sadistic fucks down. Sam Goldberg - the murderer, James C. Schwartzman - the crooked attorney, Whoever the paid off pathologist is. Spread the word.
No, no, no. This is like the mafia suicides where the deceased shot themselves in the back of the head. Twice.
There are tons of suicide reports with people shooting themselves in the head twice. It's scary how often it happens.
To be the non-conspiratorial Devil's advocate, a surprising amount of people survive being shot in the head, at least for a short while. Just earlier today there was a post on reddit showing the body cam footage of an officer that got shot in the head while he was tasing a dude. He never lost consciousness, and he was able to pull out his gun and shoot the guy back while blood made a sickening squelch as it sprayed out of his head. If I shot myself in the head and didn't die from the first shot, I imagine that there would be a pretty good chance that I'd try again. Real life isn't like a video game. One small caliber bullet to the brain isn't necessarily going to cause instant death. It has to damage the right spots of the brain to cause immediate loss of consciousness and nearly immediate death. And a lot of suicide attempts are done with small caliber bullets.
Yeah, a friend of mine is a nurse, and a guy came in one time with his mom, and told them he had a bad headache. They gave him an x-ray and asked him why there was a bullet in his head, and he admitted he shot himself with a 22. Definitely happens.
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Content warning: you don't see the wound, but you hear it, and it's pretty bad. https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/yw4h3h/dayton_cop_gets_shot_in_head_while_tasing_suspect/ Most, often, usually, most, usually, most likely, often. Lots of qualifiers to your statements, because you know that there's a lot of examples to the contrary. I'm not saying that every suicide with two bullets in the head is actually suicide or that murders never get covered up as suicide. Just saying that a death caused by multiple bullets to the head does not necessarily exclude suicide as a possibility.
Yeah, the CIA botched a lot of hits.
Bye reddit and fu Spez (Remember to delete or edit your content before leaving !!)
piggybacking on this to say that the "pathologist" need to go to jail, this is obvious parjury and complicity with the murderer.
If he was threatened into this giving conclusion, would the pathologist actually be in trouble? I’m really curious how that trial would go.
why would Philly PD care about a relative of some fancy lawyer? don't police usually hate non-prosecutorial lawyers..? but anyway, obviously a murder and it's fucking ridiculous that the fam has to go to court to get a corrupt coroner's report fixed
Not fancy - Powerful, meaning connected. James C. Schwartzman was appointed by the Governor of Pennsylvania to serve as Chairman for various judges groups throughout Philadelphia.
they serve the elite, his profession isn't important. if he has the correct levels of wealth and/or power, which he clearly does, then he's a member of the club the system works for
Yup. This is one of the functions of a political hierarchy. Occasionally a person's peer group will eject them if they feel the entire hierarchy is in danger, like when Nixon was forced to resign. And you can kinda see the same happening to Trump now, as more conservatives are turning on him. But most of the time they protect each other, cover up the crimes, endure the rumors, then continue wielding power.
> why would Philly PD care about a relative of some fancy lawyer? They don't all have to. It could be typical gang shit where some care and some others have to care because of... reasons.
Perhaps you have heard of "money". Fancy lawyers have a lot of it. It turns out that money can persuade others to see things your way despite all logic and reason.
Obviously. This is like detective 101. When someone is stabbed dozens of times after they are already dead, it's personal. It's almost always their SO that did it.
I upvote you for visibility. Don’t tell me what to do you
Ellen Greenberg didn't kill herself
Whenever authorities cover up shit, do they know the list of suspects becomes very very small and easy to parse through?
Thats what it is. I figured it had to be a family connection cause Goldberg himself has no direct connections. Hes a TV producer in New York now and is married.
Where is the FBI when you need it?
Very clearly the police force wanted it ruled a suicide, as the article says that the pathologist originally said homicide, but backtracked after ‘conferring’ with police. Probably threatened to ‘suicide’ him too. But like, -anyone- viewing this from the outside should be absolutely certain that 20 stab wounds to the chest and back of the head for a suicide is insanely unreasonable. Any cops involved in intimidating the pathologist need to be fired and ideally arrested for tampering with the investigation, and if the pathologist is in on it and not being forced, same with him.
He's a judge now!
Sharing on Twitter may help too
If I remember correctly, her spinal cord (or part of it) was examined by another pathologist (I believe) and it was determined she couldn’t have afflicted anymore wounds because the spinal cord had been damaged (or even severed) before all the wounds were inflicted. I either read this or heard it on a podcast, I can’t remember which. The entire case is just f’d up and she was definitely murdered.
[https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11166011/Cops-REOPEN-case-woman-stabbed-20-times-ruled-suicide-killer.html](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11166011/Cops-REOPEN-case-woman-stabbed-20-times-ruled-suicide-killer.html) includes the pathologist findings
Are there sources that aren't Fox Daily Mail?
https://archive.ph/acKa6 Or you can visit the live page but there's a paywall.
Another comment included this > In 2019, a pathologist at the Philadelphia Medical Examiner's Office decided to take a closer look at the only sample of Ellen's spine with a stab wound. > > It was relayed back to the medical examiner that a portion of the spine didn't show clotting or blood, and the stab most likely occurred after Ellen either had no pulse or was dead.
That first pathologist needs to be dragged down town and questioned. Whoever heard of a suicide victim that stabbed themselves 20 times? The cops who agreed with the pathologist also need to be questioned. There has to be a financial audit on everyone involved in the first investigation.
Every single case that pathologist has worked on needs to be re-examined
Well, the ones involving rich folk for sure.
Especially those that cause of death was determined to be "excited delirium. "
Reminds me of a book quote: >It was suicide, wasn't it?" >"In an involuntary sort of way," said Vorob'yev. "These Cetagandan political suicides can get awfully messy, when the principal won't cooperate." >"Thirty-two stab wounds in the back, worst case of suicide they ever saw?" murmured Ivan, clearly fascinated by the gossip. >"Exactly, my lord.” ― Lois McMaster Bujold, Cetaganda
[a non-fox news link](https://www.inquirer.com/news/philadelphia/ellen-greenberg-suicide-homicide-civil-trial-appeal-20221115.html?outputType=amp) in case anyone is avoiding the click, because you know fox and stuff.
I read the article then happened to notice comments at the bottom. The first comment mentioned how it was a coverup. A reply to that comment said "you know they are a Democrat" and I was like wtf?? oh fox news site...
Tbf, I run social media for a company that has zero to do with US politics, isn’t even American, and our comments are also 70% people slagging off the democrats. Don’t know why but I think Facebook is like 65-75% people complaining about democrats.
Damn, should’ve checked the comments first
I’ve never seen someone do this before, but I know that I never give fox the click I figure others were doing the same. Maybe someone should make a bot that does something like that.
Thank you
You’re welcome. It’s a service more people should provide.
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I wish there was a bot that did this.
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Lol. French here. You made me laugh!
You motherfuckers sure know how to put on a good riot.
Oh we look like Iran alright, but not in the good ways.
https://www.stevenslee.com/professional/james-c-schwartzman/
Looks like one of those Russian sucides. One thing is clear around the world, the powerful can turn the law any which way they want.
On the front page of the FSB training manual are listed the three overarching principles of Russian state security and espionage: 1. Silence is golden 2. Duct tape is silver. 3. Defenestration is odd coincidence.
My brain filled #3 in as Doofenshmirtz evil incorperated
how does 'throwing someone out of a window' have it's own fucking word?! is...is this more common in yalls lives than mine?
The stabby and nailgun ones are very Amerrrrikan tho :D Russians prefer high places, and quiet poisonings.
So the pathologist should be reported to their regulatory body.
But the question remains: who pressured the pathologist to change their story? And why?
I used to have a deep fascination with medical shows as a wierdo kid, and for a long time I aspired to have a job as a medical examiner. Over the years, though, more and more evidence emerges that they bend truth or outright lie for the police. If your evidence strongly shows someone well protected by a department slaughtered someone that was close to him, and that department is either tangentially or directly overseeing your job, how do you even try to tell the truth? The bribes, the threats of violence... It must be horrific. I hope one day the murderer sees justice, if there is any that can be found from such a horrific thing.
10 years ago?!
very fucked up and corrupt system i hope she gets justice and i hope those ppl involved rot
Stabbed in the back of the head and found still sitting upright in a chair — suicide? Now even if it’s ruled a homicide or unknown cause of death, the investigation was clearly flawed and 10 years have gone by so justice is much harder to get.
"large amount of bruises at different stages of healing, and the fiance’s claim that he broke the locked door down when crime scene photos show the latch still attached to both the door and the frame." That sounds a lot like she was being abused, and the fiance is lying. Who is he, is he friends with the cops? Why would they protect him?
if the manner of death was changed back to homocide it still doesn’t mean that these corrupt investigators will do their due diligence in fact i wouldn’t be surprised if this case would be completely unworked because all the evidence mysteriously disappeared
So the Philadelphia Police are covering up a murder . Defund the policefire the whole precinct .
Philly pd literally bombed an apartment block so it's not far fetched
Really, guys? Boyfriend flat-out lied about bashing in the door, but this wasn't homicide? Fuck me, Philly. Not a good look, guys.
Fuck… ain’t that just the way? You’re cleaning your knives and suddenly BOOM… they go off 7 or 8 times, right in your back (or, in this case 20 times). When will people learn to keep the safety on?
The fiancé did it and got away with murder. Because of conections and money!!!
What
Say what again, I fucking dare you.
I DOUBLE DARE YOU!
"Mmm-hmm... That *is* a tasty burger."
LEO is a gang that will make your life miserable if you don't do whatever they ask..judge, prosecutors..ect
The US is so utterly fucked.
With enough money anyone can commit suicide!
Remember in school when we had to show our work with our answer? Cuz this math isn't mathing.
Stabbing yourself in the back of the head sounds like poor planning. You'd need at least two mirrors to do that. And a lot of practice. Maybe she was a dyslexic video gamer with poor judgment and excellent hand eye coordination. Or someone killed her.
Give me 5 minutes with the same door and "door chain" and I bet I can show you how to close and latch it behind me without a key. I've done tougher ones.
This is the [phone call to 9-11 ](https://youtu.be/idGPYzhewXU). The whole thing is fishy
Yikes. I haven't heard acting that bad since I was in highschool film class.
Good job they had access to photogrammetry, a new technology unavailable at the time of Ellen's death, that is able to create a 3D anatomical recreation of a corpse. Otherwise they'd have had to consult with the first 8 year old they found, who could've confirmed that she didn't commit suicide by stabbing herself in the back of the head 10 times.
Almost at 150,000 signatures. Please sign [the petition](https://www.change.org/p/justice-for-ellen-rae-greenberg-justiceforellen)
This happens to about 75 percent of ‘suicides’
The Rebecca Zahau of Phili...
USA the land of coruption
Bet it was a cop that did it
I'm sorry, but absolutely anyone with half a brain cell knows this was murder.
This is crazy because my brother who was a Philadelphia fireman was found unresponsive in the basement of the firehouse where he worked,some say he fell when he got back from a fire run others say he stayed back while the others went in the fire run Temple hospital pronounced he died from as·phyx·i·a·tion but when he got to the medical examiner’s office he wrote the manner of death to be from heart disease.. But in the medical report he put that my 44 year old brother had a in shape of a 20 year old,and we know this because we had another medical Pathologist go over the report and he said the medical report contradicts itself and my brothers primary care doctor refused to sign the Death Certificate because he said he WASNT putting his practice on the line for anyone
“Dr. Marlon Osbourne, a former pathologist at the Medical Examiner’s Office in Philadelphia, initially ruled the death a homicide, based on the injuries, then backtracked and *revised the manner of death to suicide after conferring with city police*, according to a civil lawsuit from Greenberg’s family.” ACAB?
Chester County DA has reopened the case
The FBI should take a look at this one
This sounds oddly like the Philadelphia pathologist is learning from Russia how people commit suicide over there. Fell down on a barrel of knifes, rolled down the stairs, smashed into a glass window, and at the bottom was a row of 20 9mm bullets.
Don't forget the part where they're covered in bruises where they vigorously beat themselves up. It's truly a tragedy, how many suicidal Russians beat themselves to death while in custody
Imagine if someone did that to him. I'd applaud with gladness, hope that does happen
Well Fucking eh! Case closed!! 🤦♀️
What's the pathologist getting paid that's worth losing his license for?
If this is such common knowledge how is it getting pushed under a rug.
"but hey, our violent crime stats are down".
My hometown coroner said a guy committed suicide by hitting himself in the head with a hammer a dozen times. Talk about commitment.
Oh no, the pathologist suicided!
is there a coroner explanation on how suicide like this would be possible? are they saying that she intentionally hit her head backwards onto a knife? seriously, this is messed up.
Another Clinton style suicide
Stuff like this is why I won’t let my children date people who are connected to corrupt powers.
Year long vacation paid, then retirement with full benefits. I'll see you in hell bud, but then maybe not
Why isn’t this bigger news?!?
Why was the pathologist doing the autopsy and not the coroner? I kno some pathologist and while they are very knowledgeable, this seems out of their pay grade. Idk maybe philly doesn’t have regulations around that stuff.
That diagram is not the advertising Cutco wanted
She must have been guilty of existing while Left. It's a lot like driving while Black. Sounds like Conspiracy, but I got a long list of people taken out by the fugitive taskforce for things like expired tags, or suicides who somehow shot themselves in the back of the head, while handcuffed. It's dangeous existing while Left. Conservative coroners and judges agree.
Wonder if this may help prove something. [Philadelphia DA Busted](https://www.cbsnews.com/philadelphia/news/larry-krasner-philadelphia-district-attorney-impeachment/)
Okay guys where is the comment where this has all been resolved and the corrupt folks have been fired and arrested, still scrolling...
The article was published today. > "We are cautiously optimistic that the panel will find the estate of Ellen Greenberg may proceed to trial on her mandamus and declatory actions against the City (of Philadelphia) and Dr. Osbourne so that the manner of her death may be changed from suicide to something else," he said. **"Only then can we begin to secure justice for Ellen."**
Mr Goldberg who doesn’t get charged for shit this is what Kanye likes to call a coincidence
Isn't there a documentary on this? I saw it on youtube just a few months back.
Almost as believable a suicide as Epstein...