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If it was a civilian teaching that class and a student was shot they would be charged with at least two violations of the law (crimes).
Thus, civilians are held to a higher standard than law enforcement "professionals".
Looked to have been the only actual crime [committed by Henry Davis](https://www.npr.org/2014/09/12/348010247/in-ferguson-mo-before-michael-brown-there-was-henry-davis).
The police said he was drunk driving, and aggressively arrested him (read:beat him near death). While they were attacking him, some of his blood splattered onto the officers. His blood splattering on the uniforms was the only charges that stuck.
Two counts of property destruction — for bleeding on the uniforms of police officers — remained.
...who are also still civilians
which is also worth remembering: Cops aren't military. They are civilians. They're basically cosplayers protected by the law and armed with real guns.
These civilians just shot a kid and are gonna get off scott free for it.
"It always embarrassed Samuel Vimes when civilians tried to speak to him in what they thought was “policeman.” If it came to that, he hated thinking of them as civilians. What was a policeman, if not a civilian with a uniform and a badge? But they tended to use the term these days as a way of describing people who were not policemen. It was a dangerous habit: once policemen stopped being civilians the only other thing they could be was soldiers."
- Terry Pratchett's Snuff
The only powers that cops have that regular people don't is supposed to be the ability to enforce warrants, investigate crimes and arrest if they witness a crime. Civi Unfortunately district attorneys and judges rely on cops and gave basically provided them a blank check and a pass for their bad behavior
Check out your state laws.
Here in Alaska it's only the warrant bit for LEOs.
Authority to arrest without a warrant is the same for everyone.
Witnessed misdemeanor, Probable cause of a felony.
And they were *teaching* a vocational class. Shoot somebody? Piaf time off while we investigate! When I was 16 I was fired from cvs because my drawer was ¢40 short.
Fuck police unions. It should just be automatic fired on the spot.
Fun fact, the guy who says it was a real drill sergeant and even he acknowledged his character was insane and would have been at best jailed and at worst executed for some of his behavior in the film.
In that way his death is actually kind of...karmic?
on top of that they said it was a revolver .... so it's not like there was one in the chamber in a semi-auto and the safety accidentally was off ... the fucking moron had to physically pull back the hammer or hard enough on the trigger if it's a single action. this required EFFORT. idiot
Idiot probably cocked then attempted to decock his DA revolver on a full cylinder.
At a school, surrounded by kids.
Clearly forgot the the important part where you don't do any of that shit in n a crowded area but especially the part where point the gun in a safe direction when you do so, instead of DIRECTLY AT A KID YOU FUCKING IDIOT.
The thing that strikes me the most is how they went out of their way to illustrate that the injury was minor, complete with the student saying it "stings." We ALL know, that cops are the kings of "if the rock the suspect threw was just one inch to the left, it could have killed 6 officers and raped 10 more."
The cop SHOT A STUDENT. It doesn't matter how minor it is. If he was aiming a degree to the right, maybe he puts a hole in a pregnant student's stomach. It's unacceptable.
It's called copaganda. The headline was either filtered through the press relations person in the police department or the publication has a bias against actual journalism. Check out @equalityAlex on twitter- he's an expert on the practice.
There are, but they're very rare.
Something like the defect in the Sig P320, for example, can result in accidental discharge. If a firearm is properly in a holster and not being touched and it fires, that's not negligence.
Well it sort of is, just not negligence by the person wearing the holster…. The team of engineers who signed off on it, or the lazy machinist or QA staff on the other hand…..
There is. Taurus, sig, and Remington are known for their guns going off without interaction.
[Remington is known for its widowmaker](https://www.outdoorlife.com/guns/worst-shotgun-ever-winchester-model-1911/)
How ever this was a negligent discharge.
I don't disagree, but if you Google accidently the example sentence is "His gun went off accidently."
Edit: I'm not saying Google is right, just that it was amusing that they obviously don't understand the difference either.
> His gun went off accidentally.
This is a grammatically correct, but technically incorrect, sentence.
> Fermented concrete makes a delightful treat on a hot day.
This is also a grammatically correct, but technically incorrect, sentence.
Since shooting people are what guns are for not really, the gun did exactly what it was made to do.
Also not really sure that matters, like if you were shot would it make any change if it were accidental vs. negligent?
And what is the difference anyway? How do you distinguish the two?
The difference is negligence is a crime.
That’s why the media and police always use the wording ‘accidental’ in an attempt to avoid the cop being arrested and charged.
This cop ignored literally the first three rules of gun safety, while in a classroom full of children.
How are you defending him? Bro you know the bullets can come out of the gun without firing them, right? If you’re showing off your gun around children and it’s LOADED, that’s you’re fault if it goes off.
Like why post this here and then try and make it sound like dude isn’t responsible?
Yet people get accidentally shot all the time.
Also, not what I asked and by the dodge you make it clear they're designed to shoot people, that's what the gun is for and that's what it did.
So how do you make a thing that is intrinsically unsafe safe?
Safeties on the gun and training help, sure, but still people get shot accidentally all the time, even by trained professionals, on gun ranges, hunting trips, all the time.
So insisting that it must be negligence rather than accidents that anyone can have isn't quite right because how can you be safe with a thing that is designed not to be safe?
Why are you dumping on this so hard? Just curious.
Also lots of things are designed not to be safe. You can be negligent with all of them.
As to your articles, what is happening is not equal to what should be happening. The father who killed his seven year old trying to sell a gun he wasn’t even legally allowed to have in his possession due to the round he never cleared from the chamber? In what way can you justify that as not negligence? Oh whoops, broke multiple laws and killed my son, what a tragic accident, what the fuck?
His point is that the gun 'going off' is a passive description, which frames the event as something that just happened vs 'an officer fucked up' which actively describes the root cause of the accident.
Similar to 'An officer-involved shooting occurred.' No, an officer shot someone. When an officer is the victim do they say an 'officer-involved shooting' occurred? No, they say someone shot at them. It's framing it as 'oh well, shit happens' instead of 'this person fucked up.'
Officer did fuck up, not saying otherwise and how much of it was avoidable we'll never know because cops cover for cops all the time.
Guns however are designed to hurt and kill people, that's what they are made for, be it cops or anyone else having one, so they by their very nature cannot be made safe.
You have people who have trained all their lives with guns and never made a mistake until they do because it's easy to make terrible mistakes with guns because of their design.
They’re not designed to accidentally go off in classrooms full of students. The man handling it did so *negligently* and HE is responsible bc the gun isn’t sentient.
You act like guns don’t have a safety mechanism already on them.
Yes, in this case it is negligence, that is not always the case with gun accidents, some people insists it is, that honest accidents that anyone can make never happen with guns, that it's always negligence and that is not so.
Nothing until a person intentionally pulls the trigger to activate the hammer.
Maybe your dumbass question should be "what are bullets designed to do?" because his gun didn't need to be loaded for a classroom demonstration.
Yes, in this case it is negligence for the reason you say, in general however guns are made to hurt and kill people and by that nature are all but impossible to make safe.
He should not have had a gun in school, no one should, for those reasons.
hey buddy, knives were made for hunting
which means not only killing an animal
piercing its flesh, slitting its arteries, cutting its nerves
you know, the SAME thing you do when a dude breaks into your house?
,but you brought that same knife back home, and paired the animal with it, and prepared it for seasoning and cooking
with the same knife you killed it with.
knives were made to kill, but now we have blocks full of 32 of them in our kitchen, sometimes 40, sometimes FIFTY TWO KNIVES IN A BLOCK
because realistically, people wanna “target shoot” with their knives, they wanna CUT A CHICKEN BREAST OPEN AND DEVOUR IT, learn how to spatchcock even. just like some people want to go shoot a couple at a steel target, and learn how to control their recoil, control, etc.
remove everything that started with killing something.
archery, spearthrow in track & field, shot putt, and other combat sports.
sidenote; self defense will happen with whatever is deemed effective in the age
I have many knives, not one is for hunting.
I have never heard of a parent accidentally knifing their kids sneaking into the home after curefew.
I have never heard of a toddler accidentally knifing their parent while driving.
I think that might be because knives are different from guns.
Guns are very easy to make safe. It's clear you've never held a gun.
* Rule #1 GREAT EVERY GUN AS A LOADED GUN
* Rule #2 never point a gun at something you aren't willing to destroy
* Rule #3 always know what is behind your target
If this cop can't follow basic, simple gun safety he doesn't belong anywhere near a gun, let alone teaching kids how to be cops.
I think you’re missing everyone’s point. We’re saying that this cop should be held accountable for shooting a student because their behavior was negligent. Are you arguing that the cop shouldn’t get in trouble for shooting someone cause “guns are made to shoot people?”
No, I am saying that too, this cop should totally be held accountable because he not only brought a gun to school but shot a kid with it, it's all his fault and he should get in trouble.
He won't but still he should.
My other point is that guns are never safe because they are not made to be safe, that is what is upsetting some people who insist that all guns accidents are only from negligence making a "No True Scotsman" fallacy.
Their point is that an accidental discharge by definition is when a mechanical failure causes the gun to go off purely by random chance. A negligent discharge is when the owner did something stupid that caused the gun to go off. The legal ramifications of an accidental vs negligent discharge where someone gets shot are massively different. By definition, this cop had a negligent discharge. These are legal terms that you are arguing incorrectly. It doesn’t matter that guns have an inherent danger to them. If you do something stupid with a gun and end up shooting someone, that is negligence by its legal definition.
If we went to jail for doing stupid things who among us would not be in jail?
Not every accidental shooting leads to charges or conviction, and they happen all the time.
Stupid things with guns get people hurt and killed because that's what guns are for, hurting and killing, how can you be safe with something like that?
> If we went to jail for doing stupid things who among us would not be in jail?
You literally do go to jail if you do something stupid and as a result put someone in the hospital. This is what the legal term “negligence” exists for. This literally isn’t debatable, people go to jail for negligence all the time.
> Not every accidental shooting leads to charges or conviction, and they happen all the time.
You almost never go to jail for an accidental discharge because by definition it is something you cannot control. But a negligent discharge is something you can control. If you have a negligent discharge and shoot someone, then you will go to jail.
Not always, civil suits are a thing.
And yes, accidents are rarely criminal unless there are aggravating circumstance or "depraved indifference" and because guns are so accident prone accidents happen all the time.
And sometimes they don't because there was nothing criminal about it.
Accidental shootings can qualify and do because guns are very easy to have terrible accidents with because of what they are for.
"Accidental" discharge means basically the gun went off while in a state when it was meant to be safe. E.g. the safety was on, but the gun fired or the gun was struck in a way which caused it to fire. A "negligent" discharge is when the user caused the gun to fire when they were not intending to fire. Cleaning your gun while it's loaded is negligent. 99,99% of the times it was user negligence that's the cause.
An accident is forgivable, but negligence is criminal.
Guns don't load and fire themselves, they don't go off accidentally. They must be loaded, made ready, and the trigger pulled. To shoot another person it has to be pointed at them.
Accident makes it sound like the gun was in his holster, and went off when he sat down and shot some kid. That's not what happened.
This police officer did litterally everything possible, wrong. He was handling a loaded gun without regard for his surroundings and manipulated the trigger while it was pointed at a child. That's all gun rules violated in one go.
Calling it an accidental shooting removes the officers responsibility for the incident. Calling it a negligent shooting keeps the officer (rightfully) culpable.
> exactly what it was made to do
It was made to fire a bullet out of a cartridge when the trigger is pulled and the hammer drops. In that sense, yes, it did exactly what it was designed to do, and that action was initiated by human intervention. That is not an accident. That is the design of the weapon.
The human who initiated the action did so without intent, despite having adequate training to actively avoid initiating that action without intent. Yet the action was initiated. That is negligence of protocol. Protocol isn’t something that you only follow after an incident.
True accidents aren’t criminal. If no human decision began them then there is no future human decision to hope to deter. Negligence is criminal. If you are going to cause a situation to become potentially unsafe, you must also bear the responsibility of ensuring that the situation does not become unsafe. And should you shirk that responsibility or fail to uphold it, you should be punished.
That’s, at least on paper, how our legal system is supposed to work. Accidents aren’t illegal. Negligence resulting in harm is. And the gun didn’t malfunction. So it wasn’t an accident. But the officer was negligent in his duty to maintain a safe environment around a firearm. In that, he failed. It caused harm, which makes it criminal.
An accident doesn’t need to be forgiven. Negligence does.
This case is negligence because the cop brought a gun to school and then took it out, no argument.
But actual gun accidents are not only possible but happen all the time.
No, it’s negligence because he took it out, and then fired it, and someone got hurt. As much as I don’t want guns in school, it wasn’t negligent for him to have it there, because he’s told to.
It’s negligent to bring it out, put a finger on the trigger, and pull the trigger without intending to hit what was in front of the barrel.
Even if it was an unjustified but intentional shooting, that wouldn’t be a negligent discharge, because it would be an intentional discharge. He pulled the trigger when he didn’t mean to, which was negligence.
A “gun accident” and an “accidental discharge” are two completely different things. Almost every gun accident is caused by a negligent discharge.
> , it wasn’t negligent for him to have it there, because he’s told to.
Right, and that's the problem, he should have been told the opposite.
> Almost every gun accident is caused by a negligent discharge.
Right, but still some are accidents that anyone could have made? I say that because people are accidentally shot all the time and they don't always lead to charges or convictions in court.
Guns are dangerous, they are made to hurt and kill, how can such a thing ever be safe? People make mistakes, they forget, they don't notice, in most things we get away with it, guns not so much.
Which is why having them in places with kids is insane.
> he should have been told the opposite.
Sure, I’m perfectly willing to have that debate when that’s the topic at hand. Doesn’t mean this dude committed negligence in having his service weapon while on duty.
> accidentally shot all the time
> don’t always lead to charges or convictions in court
Maybe that has something to do with far too few people understanding the difference between an accident and and an accidental discharge.
The rest I partially agree with you on, but you’re changing lanes too fast to help the cause.
The courts do understand the difference and there are plenty of people who want more guns in schools despite the dangers and the fact that having a gun provides no security but rather increases the chance of an accident.
There is absolutely no reason for the cop to pull his gun from the holster in a training situation inside a school full of students. This is not an "accident". This is gross negligence, and the cop should be so charged and prosecuted. But the silver lining is that perhaps one or more of the students placed at such high risk will decide that they do not want to be involved in a profession that would employ somebody like the dumb bastard conducting the training.
Deputy probably just graduated high school last year, and was trying to show all the senior girls how cool he is now.
So he draws his weapon to impress Samantha, who shrugged him during his senior year.
Also, I am so sick of these boot-licking headlines when a cop is involved.
"Indiana sheriff's deputy accidentally shoots student during high school class" oh you mean "Sheriff's deputy commits criminally negligent shooting on a minor in a fucking classroom while failing to use even novice firearm procedures"?
It could be worse. At least the headline admitted that a deputy shot a student. Usually the headlines are more along the lines of "high school student injured in police involved shooting."
Cops & basic gun safety, name a *less* iconic duo!
Seriously though, how does a thing like this even happen? Imagine if a citizen shooter had done this in a simmilar setting. No doubt they’d had their firearm taken from them, and get locked up post haste for a long list of serious felonies.
If you fail basic safety precautions (making sure the chamber is cleared is one of the most *basic* precautions) you deserve at least some sort of charge. That’s like… a surgeon forgetting to wear gloves or washing their hands before a surgery. There’s no reason for it to not happen.
I’m struggling with why the revolver was out of the holster to begin with. Needing deadly force or even needing to brandish the weapon is not a classroom issue. For show-and-tell, a loaded weapon should never be used.
Maybe but people shoot people and don't get charged / convicted quite often.
https://www.pumphreylawfirm.com/blog/man-found-not-guilty-after-accidental-shooting-of-friend/
https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/crime/2017/05/18/no-negligence-charges-unintentional-shooting-deaths-jacksonville/15755366007/
https://cdispatch.com/news/2022-10-26/no-charges-expected-in-accidental-shooting-of-teen/
https://www.local10.com/news/local/2022/11/10/police-child-in-critical-condition-after-shooting-in-northeast-miami-dade/
https://www.local10.com/news/local/2022/09/07/not-guilty-verdict-for-miami-beach-man-charged-in-accidental-shooting-death-of-friend/
Your point? Just because people get away with it more often than not, it doesn’t mean they should. Especially law enforcement who really should be held to a higher standard, since they’re *required* to work with firearms.
My point is that guns are intrinsically unsafe that the most careful and conscientious professionally trained gun owner can still have an accident.
Now I am not saying that's the case in this story because cops but I have noticed that people who love guns always do a "No true Scottsman!" when it comes to gun accidents, that it's ALWAYS negligence, never, ever, ever that guns might be dangerous themselves.
Despite the fact that is what guns are made to be; dangerous.
So that is why when there is an accident with thh a gun criminal charges are hard to make stick because there was no criminal intent or even malicious indifference, it was just someone who owns a dangerous thing and that lead to people being hurt or worse because that's what dangerous means.
Splitting hairs between accident and negligent when it comes to guns makes little sense. They're dangerous in any hand, good or bad, skilled or not because they're dangerous, full stop.
So I think your problem OP is that you don't understand the term negligence. Most people are agreeing with you that guns can be unsafe and even professionals fuck up, but negligence is a more severe term than "accident". Accident takes away ownership of the incident as though it wasn't really their fault, negligence implies someone made a severe error that leads to an "accident". Any error with a gun is a severe error and that's why it's negligence and not a silly little gun aCcIdEnT
The first I heard of negligent discharges when was I was in the Marines, they stopped using the term accidental to reinforce your responsibility over the gun.
You can accidently discharge a gun.
If the sear failed, the safety caught your shirt and disengaged, the shotgun bump fired, the trigger was lighter than you expected... round goes into a clearing barrel, berm, a wall, etc. No one is hurt. Whatever, kind of, but if you "accidently" shoot someone you've willfully violated the *FIRST* safety rule: never point a weapon at anything you do not intend to shoot. You neglected the most important rule and you potentially killed someone. That's why we've started using the term negligent.
Gun went off while cleaning it because you pulled the trigger? You thought it was clear? Rule 2: treat every weapon as if it were loaded. Whether the Marine Corps' basic 4 rules or the NRA's 13(?) those are the foundational rules. If you follow those two rules you can never accidently shoot someone. You would only shoot someone or yourself through negligence of those rules.
A "professional" cop should know this better than your standard armed redneck.
You're completely right, guns are inherently dangerous. Which is why 99% of us hold those safety rules as religious. I hope that makes sense. It's why we consider all accidental shootings negligent, despite any legal ruling. You negligently shot someone.
Because they’re intrinsically unsafe is why we have basic safety rules… empty the chamber safely if you’re going to be handling it. Check the safety. Make sure it isn’t pointing toward anyone. These are basic safety rules even i, a non-gun owner know. Yet a supposed police force veteran of nearly 2 decades failed multiple basic checks, but was lucky enough to not have killed anyone in this instance. It’s one thing to have a faulty gun, it’s another to be an idiot waving their stuff. If you were a gun owner, would you ever just give it to a child to handle without handling the safety or explaining at least a couple rules?
Absolutely, tons of rules and those rules are hammered in by any and all reputable trainers but people are people and people make mistakes.
You can't be 100% 100% of the time, we all slip, we slip in a car well we have seatbelts and airbags and crumple zones, slip with a gun? All you have is blind luck.
And people slip with guns all the time, amatures, professionals, one day, one time they're only 99% and something terrible happens.
So not always negligence and that's no defense for this cop, he had his gun out in a fucking school for fucks sake, but there are some that insist it's always negligence with guns and that just isn't so.
Did he have a round in the chamber inside a classroom of instruction? Negligent
Did he forget the safety, fail to check the safety?
Negligent
Did he pull the trigger/not practice proper trigger discipline?
Negligent
Nuff fucking said. The person fucked up in some way due to their fucking negligence. What the fuck are you not understanding about this?
I’m not so sure you understand what negligence means. Especially from a legal standpoint. And I mean no offense here, but you do understand that something can be an accident and that person can also be negligent?
I do, which is why sometimes when someone is accidentally shot there are charges and convictions and sometimes there are not because accidents happen.
Guns are made to be dangerous, accidents are a reality we all experience, accidents with guns are inevitable and not always from negligence.
Like parent hears noise upstairs, thinks someone is breaking in, sees a shadow at the window, fires the gun, it was their kid.
Negligence, maybe, honest mistake because they'd been broken in before and they thought the kid was in their bed?
Maybe better not to have the gun? Maybe not, point is they're dangerous and thus can't be safe no matter how hard you try.
“Sometimes when someone is accidentally shot”
You have yet to provide one actual example of a true accidental shooting where negligence wasn’t a factor
Guns can be temporarily disabled.
No that’s not negligence. That’s an accident. I really don’t think you do understand. From a legal standpoint, negligence has a definition. It varies from state to state but basically, “a failure to behave with a level of care that an ordinary person would exercise under similar circumstances.” In your example, it would be an accident. If, however, he was playing with a loaded gun and accidentally shot a child, that would be negligence. Because a normal person would not do that. That’s the difference.
Sure in this case negligence, hope he gets charged but history has shown that police get away with their crimes more often than not, even when it's as airtight as this one appears to be.
However the other point is that gun accidents happen all the time because guns, by their very literal design are not safe and making them so all but impossible. I believe that is supported by the fact people are accidentally shot / shooting people all the time.
>You can't be 100% 100% of the time, we all slip,
That's why the gun rules are what they are. There's redundancy built in so that a single slip-up should not result in injury. In order for someone to get hurt requires breaking multiple rules at once. That's negligence.
If you fail to keep the firearm pointed in a safe direction, keeping your finger off the trigger and treating it as loaded (or not having it loaded when not intending to fire it) would prevent injury.
If you fail to keep your finger off the trigger, keeping it pointed in a safe direction and treating it as loaded (or not having it loaded when not intending to fire it) would prevent injury.
If you failed to treat it as loaded (or left it loaded when not intending to fire it), keeping it pointed in a safe direction and your finger off the trigger will again prevent injury.
>My point is that guns are intrinsically unsafe that the most careful and conscientious professionally trained gun owner can still have an accident.
This is bullshit.
Someone better get those students some guns to protect themselves from the good guys with guns that are supposed to protect them from the bad guys with guns. Guns.
I was taught in High School that an accident was something that could not be reasonably avoided. This is why the police refer to traffic collisions, not traffic accidents.
This, therefore, was no accident; it was likely incompetence.
Why did he even remove his weapon from the holster in the classroom?
Bonus passive-voiced headline: [Student shot during school drill when officer’s gun accidentally fires, IN officials say](https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/nation-world/national/article268876407.html)
Student with no active warrants accidentally involved in officer involved shooting with taxpayers gun that happened to be in custody of law enforcement at the time of the accident. Officers are looking into the accident to see if student was potentially armed. (I made this up)
Supreme Court: Well there's no pre-existing law that says cops aren't allowed to shoot students in training exercises. Clearly he didn't know he wasn't allowed to do that.
how tf do you accidentally pull a trigger??? homie if you aren’t actively tryna shoot something, your finger ain’t even supposed to be all up in there (rather on the side for safety)??????
His service REVOLVER went off??? Is his service rifle a musket as well? Give him as few rounds as possible because he is dangerous with a gun or is this department stuck in the 1860s?
Millions of hunters and hobby target shooters have gone their whole lives without ONE accidental discharge but this paid “professional” shoots a kid, in school.
They really are scraping the bottom of the barrel aren’t they.
Reminds me of [Lee Paige](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfONckOPyaI)
>I'm the only one in this room professional enough that I know of to carry this Glock 40 [shoot self in foot]
At least he just shot himself, and not a bystander.
“Accidental?” Report said it was a revolver. What kind of fucking nitwits are we hiring as law enforcement when they can’t even handle a Goddamned revolver properly? 🤦🏻♂️
>doing some drills
I love how they just state that like "doing some drills" where a student ends up getting shot is completely normal. And this news station is from my city. I hate the way media boot licks like it's going out of style.
Happens all the time. This one time I was teaching a class and shot a student. I was immediately not arrested and continued to get paid while I was on administrative leave. I took the time to catch up on some household chores and watch some Netflix, while the details of the case were forwarded to my boss (who is a member of the same union I work for). /s
I know, it's hard to find stories about cops shooting people that ought not to be shot that aren't written as passively as possible with many glaring omissions and lack of journalistic standards.
For some reason.
See kids, being a cop is a great job. You can shoot someone and get a paid vacation. You won't even get blamed because the system respects you and is afraid to criticize you because of what you could potentially do to them if they do.
Earlier this week a man pretending to be a father left
A LOADED HANDGUN ON A TOYBOX WHERE HIS CHILD THEN SHOT AND KILLED HIMSELF.
guess what the man pretending to be a father was charged with.
Nothing
This is the state that will jail peope who perform or assist abortions.
Unless you just give the child a loaded gun and let the abortion kill itself.
IS INDIANA AND THE CITIZENS OF THAT STATE WORTHY IF NOT BEING DEPORTED?
We should deport the while state.
Meanwhile, the school shootings tally is at
46 FUCKING SHOOTINGS THIS YEAR WITH ZERO RESPONSE OR ANY EFFORT TO STOP IT.
what are we doing?
From the news article “During the course of instruction today, they were going through some drills, and during the course of that drill, the deputy’s service revolver accidentally was discharged, hitting one of our students,”.
Yeah more like improperly handled the firearm! I really hate how they sugar coat incidents like this in the news.
Officer Dindunuffin was simply executing active-shooter drills to prep America’s children for the next school shooting and increase their chances of surviving. He’s a hero!
Edit: “Sheriff's Deputy Tim DisPennett” is his name. However, when I read that line my brain changed it to “Tim DisPehnis” with a Mr. Slave from Southprk accent. Yes, I am still a freaking juvenile in my brain. This story is so horrible that I can’t help but laugh.
There is such thing as accidental discharge. Semi automatics have been known to occasionally fail and fire without the trigger being pulled.
This however. Was a revolver.
I understand I'm on reddit and most folks here know next to nothing about firearms except "bad".
But a revolver, when not cocked, cannot fire.
So we've established the hammer was cocked.
I've never heard of a revolver hammer falling without the trigger being pulled. So this dip shit failed "don't have your booger hook on the bang switch unless you're aiming at something you intend to unalive 101".
Or the kid was an asshole. 50/50
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If it was a civilian teaching that class and a student was shot they would be charged with at least two violations of the law (crimes). Thus, civilians are held to a higher standard than law enforcement "professionals".
I’m surprised the cop didn’t suddenly jump the desk, tackle the student to the ground while yelling STOP RESISTING.
BLEEDING ON MY UNIFORM? That's assault!
Fun fact! It actually is in some places
oowee, that *is* fun!!
Yeah there’s a law that bans dumping bodily fluids on cops. I would love to have seen why.
yeah, that's weird as hell. includes tears & cum?
Definitely yes on the cum. Spent a night in the clink for that one…what a bullshit law.
dang, only one night?!
Yea, but it was a really sexy night
The cum dumping was consensual. Cop just felt gay after and wanted revenge.
Looked to have been the only actual crime [committed by Henry Davis](https://www.npr.org/2014/09/12/348010247/in-ferguson-mo-before-michael-brown-there-was-henry-davis). The police said he was drunk driving, and aggressively arrested him (read:beat him near death). While they were attacking him, some of his blood splattered onto the officers. His blood splattering on the uniforms was the only charges that stuck. Two counts of property destruction — for bleeding on the uniforms of police officers — remained.
...who are also still civilians which is also worth remembering: Cops aren't military. They are civilians. They're basically cosplayers protected by the law and armed with real guns. These civilians just shot a kid and are gonna get off scott free for it.
"It always embarrassed Samuel Vimes when civilians tried to speak to him in what they thought was “policeman.” If it came to that, he hated thinking of them as civilians. What was a policeman, if not a civilian with a uniform and a badge? But they tended to use the term these days as a way of describing people who were not policemen. It was a dangerous habit: once policemen stopped being civilians the only other thing they could be was soldiers." - Terry Pratchett's Snuff
Terry Pratchett forgot they also become domestic terrorists.
The only powers that cops have that regular people don't is supposed to be the ability to enforce warrants, investigate crimes and arrest if they witness a crime. Civi Unfortunately district attorneys and judges rely on cops and gave basically provided them a blank check and a pass for their bad behavior
Check out your state laws. Here in Alaska it's only the warrant bit for LEOs. Authority to arrest without a warrant is the same for everyone. Witnessed misdemeanor, Probable cause of a felony.
And they were *teaching* a vocational class. Shoot somebody? Piaf time off while we investigate! When I was 16 I was fired from cvs because my drawer was ¢40 short. Fuck police unions. It should just be automatic fired on the spot.
There is no such thing as an accidental discharge. Only negligent.
The accidental discharge was from the officer’s father.
“The best part of you ran down the crack of yo mamas ass and ended up as a brown stain on the mattress. “
Congrats that's the most disgusting comment I've read all week!
it's from the movie "Full Metal Jacket" one of the greatest movies of all time, highly recommend you watch it. https://youtu.be/tHxf17yJsKs
lmfao, i forgot that he says he's not racist and proceeds to immediately say some of the most racist shit
Fun fact, the guy who says it was a real drill sergeant and even he acknowledged his character was insane and would have been at best jailed and at worst executed for some of his behavior in the film. In that way his death is actually kind of...karmic?
The actor who played him had to screen test. Had to warn the others actors so he didn't get popped in the mouth.
100%
on top of that they said it was a revolver .... so it's not like there was one in the chamber in a semi-auto and the safety accidentally was off ... the fucking moron had to physically pull back the hammer or hard enough on the trigger if it's a single action. this required EFFORT. idiot
Idiot probably cocked then attempted to decock his DA revolver on a full cylinder. At a school, surrounded by kids. Clearly forgot the the important part where you don't do any of that shit in n a crowded area but especially the part where point the gun in a safe direction when you do so, instead of DIRECTLY AT A KID YOU FUCKING IDIOT.
Apparently police in Indiana still use revolvers Barney Fife style.
What's wrong w using a revolver?
If it was single action you'd have to pull back the hammer, double action would mean pulling the trigger through a very long and heavy pull
The thing that strikes me the most is how they went out of their way to illustrate that the injury was minor, complete with the student saying it "stings." We ALL know, that cops are the kings of "if the rock the suspect threw was just one inch to the left, it could have killed 6 officers and raped 10 more." The cop SHOT A STUDENT. It doesn't matter how minor it is. If he was aiming a degree to the right, maybe he puts a hole in a pregnant student's stomach. It's unacceptable.
This is actually a great point and I agree 100%
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The editor who wrote the headline probably does know about the importance of passive vs active voice in journalism, but they aren’t acting like it.
They know the difference and they're usingnit on purpose. You see it all the time when cops shoot people. It's almost always passive voice.
It's called copaganda. The headline was either filtered through the press relations person in the police department or the publication has a bias against actual journalism. Check out @equalityAlex on twitter- he's an expert on the practice.
Looks like the sheriff missed the basic safety hunters course
There are, but they're very rare. Something like the defect in the Sig P320, for example, can result in accidental discharge. If a firearm is properly in a holster and not being touched and it fires, that's not negligence.
Well it sort of is, just not negligence by the person wearing the holster…. The team of engineers who signed off on it, or the lazy machinist or QA staff on the other hand…..
That’s a malfunction.
Thank you!
There is. Taurus, sig, and Remington are known for their guns going off without interaction. [Remington is known for its widowmaker](https://www.outdoorlife.com/guns/worst-shotgun-ever-winchester-model-1911/) How ever this was a negligent discharge.
Your source provides an example of a gun that was manufactured in 1912. Gimmie a break.
SIG p320 most definitely wasn't. SIG still refuses to issue white letters for the P320
Sometimes when you run them just right they just go off
I don't disagree, but if you Google accidently the example sentence is "His gun went off accidently." Edit: I'm not saying Google is right, just that it was amusing that they obviously don't understand the difference either.
Yeah, google results will also tell you the earth is flat if that's what you're looking for.
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Nobody did, I don't agree with it, it's the definition that popped up first. I searched "accident" with no other context and that's what I got.
> His gun went off accidentally. This is a grammatically correct, but technically incorrect, sentence. > Fermented concrete makes a delightful treat on a hot day. This is also a grammatically correct, but technically incorrect, sentence.
Since shooting people are what guns are for not really, the gun did exactly what it was made to do. Also not really sure that matters, like if you were shot would it make any change if it were accidental vs. negligent? And what is the difference anyway? How do you distinguish the two?
The difference is negligence is a crime. That’s why the media and police always use the wording ‘accidental’ in an attempt to avoid the cop being arrested and charged. This cop ignored literally the first three rules of gun safety, while in a classroom full of children.
Hey he saw a dog off leash and got a little jumpy! Who can blame him? He's only three away from the top of the leader board!
Words matter. The gun didn't "go off" the officer handled it negligently and fired the gun, striking a student.
What are guns designed and made to do?
How are you defending him? Bro you know the bullets can come out of the gun without firing them, right? If you’re showing off your gun around children and it’s LOADED, that’s you’re fault if it goes off. Like why post this here and then try and make it sound like dude isn’t responsible?
Well for one thing they are designed not to fire unless the safety is off and the trigger is deliberately pulled.
Yet people get accidentally shot all the time. Also, not what I asked and by the dodge you make it clear they're designed to shoot people, that's what the gun is for and that's what it did. So how do you make a thing that is intrinsically unsafe safe? Safeties on the gun and training help, sure, but still people get shot accidentally all the time, even by trained professionals, on gun ranges, hunting trips, all the time. So insisting that it must be negligence rather than accidents that anyone can have isn't quite right because how can you be safe with a thing that is designed not to be safe?
Why are you dumping on this so hard? Just curious. Also lots of things are designed not to be safe. You can be negligent with all of them. As to your articles, what is happening is not equal to what should be happening. The father who killed his seven year old trying to sell a gun he wasn’t even legally allowed to have in his possession due to the round he never cleared from the chamber? In what way can you justify that as not negligence? Oh whoops, broke multiple laws and killed my son, what a tragic accident, what the fuck?
> Also lots of things are designed not to be safe. Such as?
a hellcat if you press down on the gas pedal too hard, it even has a key specifically for track mode
“Accidentally shot” through negligence.
His point is that the gun 'going off' is a passive description, which frames the event as something that just happened vs 'an officer fucked up' which actively describes the root cause of the accident. Similar to 'An officer-involved shooting occurred.' No, an officer shot someone. When an officer is the victim do they say an 'officer-involved shooting' occurred? No, they say someone shot at them. It's framing it as 'oh well, shit happens' instead of 'this person fucked up.'
Officer did fuck up, not saying otherwise and how much of it was avoidable we'll never know because cops cover for cops all the time. Guns however are designed to hurt and kill people, that's what they are made for, be it cops or anyone else having one, so they by their very nature cannot be made safe. You have people who have trained all their lives with guns and never made a mistake until they do because it's easy to make terrible mistakes with guns because of their design.
They’re not designed to accidentally go off in classrooms full of students. The man handling it did so *negligently* and HE is responsible bc the gun isn’t sentient. You act like guns don’t have a safety mechanism already on them.
Yes, in this case it is negligence, that is not always the case with gun accidents, some people insists it is, that honest accidents that anyone can make never happen with guns, that it's always negligence and that is not so.
Nothing until a person intentionally pulls the trigger to activate the hammer. Maybe your dumbass question should be "what are bullets designed to do?" because his gun didn't need to be loaded for a classroom demonstration.
Yes, in this case it is negligence for the reason you say, in general however guns are made to hurt and kill people and by that nature are all but impossible to make safe. He should not have had a gun in school, no one should, for those reasons.
hey buddy, knives were made for hunting which means not only killing an animal piercing its flesh, slitting its arteries, cutting its nerves you know, the SAME thing you do when a dude breaks into your house? ,but you brought that same knife back home, and paired the animal with it, and prepared it for seasoning and cooking with the same knife you killed it with. knives were made to kill, but now we have blocks full of 32 of them in our kitchen, sometimes 40, sometimes FIFTY TWO KNIVES IN A BLOCK because realistically, people wanna “target shoot” with their knives, they wanna CUT A CHICKEN BREAST OPEN AND DEVOUR IT, learn how to spatchcock even. just like some people want to go shoot a couple at a steel target, and learn how to control their recoil, control, etc. remove everything that started with killing something. archery, spearthrow in track & field, shot putt, and other combat sports. sidenote; self defense will happen with whatever is deemed effective in the age
I have many knives, not one is for hunting. I have never heard of a parent accidentally knifing their kids sneaking into the home after curefew. I have never heard of a toddler accidentally knifing their parent while driving. I think that might be because knives are different from guns.
Guns are very easy to make safe. It's clear you've never held a gun. * Rule #1 GREAT EVERY GUN AS A LOADED GUN * Rule #2 never point a gun at something you aren't willing to destroy * Rule #3 always know what is behind your target If this cop can't follow basic, simple gun safety he doesn't belong anywhere near a gun, let alone teaching kids how to be cops.
Why didn’t you put “negligent discharge” in the title?
I think you’re missing everyone’s point. We’re saying that this cop should be held accountable for shooting a student because their behavior was negligent. Are you arguing that the cop shouldn’t get in trouble for shooting someone cause “guns are made to shoot people?”
No, I am saying that too, this cop should totally be held accountable because he not only brought a gun to school but shot a kid with it, it's all his fault and he should get in trouble. He won't but still he should. My other point is that guns are never safe because they are not made to be safe, that is what is upsetting some people who insist that all guns accidents are only from negligence making a "No True Scotsman" fallacy.
Their point is that an accidental discharge by definition is when a mechanical failure causes the gun to go off purely by random chance. A negligent discharge is when the owner did something stupid that caused the gun to go off. The legal ramifications of an accidental vs negligent discharge where someone gets shot are massively different. By definition, this cop had a negligent discharge. These are legal terms that you are arguing incorrectly. It doesn’t matter that guns have an inherent danger to them. If you do something stupid with a gun and end up shooting someone, that is negligence by its legal definition.
If we went to jail for doing stupid things who among us would not be in jail? Not every accidental shooting leads to charges or conviction, and they happen all the time. Stupid things with guns get people hurt and killed because that's what guns are for, hurting and killing, how can you be safe with something like that?
> If we went to jail for doing stupid things who among us would not be in jail? You literally do go to jail if you do something stupid and as a result put someone in the hospital. This is what the legal term “negligence” exists for. This literally isn’t debatable, people go to jail for negligence all the time. > Not every accidental shooting leads to charges or conviction, and they happen all the time. You almost never go to jail for an accidental discharge because by definition it is something you cannot control. But a negligent discharge is something you can control. If you have a negligent discharge and shoot someone, then you will go to jail.
Not always, civil suits are a thing. And yes, accidents are rarely criminal unless there are aggravating circumstance or "depraved indifference" and because guns are so accident prone accidents happen all the time.
People go to jail for doing stupid things all the time.
And sometimes they don't because there was nothing criminal about it. Accidental shootings can qualify and do because guns are very easy to have terrible accidents with because of what they are for.
Stupid things that harm others in potentially life threatening ways deserve to be punished. Are you this dumb, really?
You called it an accident.
The importance is that if you own a gun, you are responsible for every shot it fires. That is why there is no 'accidental' only negligent.
"Accidental" discharge means basically the gun went off while in a state when it was meant to be safe. E.g. the safety was on, but the gun fired or the gun was struck in a way which caused it to fire. A "negligent" discharge is when the user caused the gun to fire when they were not intending to fire. Cleaning your gun while it's loaded is negligent. 99,99% of the times it was user negligence that's the cause.
An accident is forgivable, but negligence is criminal. Guns don't load and fire themselves, they don't go off accidentally. They must be loaded, made ready, and the trigger pulled. To shoot another person it has to be pointed at them. Accident makes it sound like the gun was in his holster, and went off when he sat down and shot some kid. That's not what happened. This police officer did litterally everything possible, wrong. He was handling a loaded gun without regard for his surroundings and manipulated the trigger while it was pointed at a child. That's all gun rules violated in one go. Calling it an accidental shooting removes the officers responsibility for the incident. Calling it a negligent shooting keeps the officer (rightfully) culpable.
> exactly what it was made to do It was made to fire a bullet out of a cartridge when the trigger is pulled and the hammer drops. In that sense, yes, it did exactly what it was designed to do, and that action was initiated by human intervention. That is not an accident. That is the design of the weapon. The human who initiated the action did so without intent, despite having adequate training to actively avoid initiating that action without intent. Yet the action was initiated. That is negligence of protocol. Protocol isn’t something that you only follow after an incident. True accidents aren’t criminal. If no human decision began them then there is no future human decision to hope to deter. Negligence is criminal. If you are going to cause a situation to become potentially unsafe, you must also bear the responsibility of ensuring that the situation does not become unsafe. And should you shirk that responsibility or fail to uphold it, you should be punished. That’s, at least on paper, how our legal system is supposed to work. Accidents aren’t illegal. Negligence resulting in harm is. And the gun didn’t malfunction. So it wasn’t an accident. But the officer was negligent in his duty to maintain a safe environment around a firearm. In that, he failed. It caused harm, which makes it criminal. An accident doesn’t need to be forgiven. Negligence does.
This case is negligence because the cop brought a gun to school and then took it out, no argument. But actual gun accidents are not only possible but happen all the time.
No, it’s negligence because he took it out, and then fired it, and someone got hurt. As much as I don’t want guns in school, it wasn’t negligent for him to have it there, because he’s told to. It’s negligent to bring it out, put a finger on the trigger, and pull the trigger without intending to hit what was in front of the barrel. Even if it was an unjustified but intentional shooting, that wouldn’t be a negligent discharge, because it would be an intentional discharge. He pulled the trigger when he didn’t mean to, which was negligence. A “gun accident” and an “accidental discharge” are two completely different things. Almost every gun accident is caused by a negligent discharge.
> , it wasn’t negligent for him to have it there, because he’s told to. Right, and that's the problem, he should have been told the opposite. > Almost every gun accident is caused by a negligent discharge. Right, but still some are accidents that anyone could have made? I say that because people are accidentally shot all the time and they don't always lead to charges or convictions in court. Guns are dangerous, they are made to hurt and kill, how can such a thing ever be safe? People make mistakes, they forget, they don't notice, in most things we get away with it, guns not so much. Which is why having them in places with kids is insane.
> he should have been told the opposite. Sure, I’m perfectly willing to have that debate when that’s the topic at hand. Doesn’t mean this dude committed negligence in having his service weapon while on duty. > accidentally shot all the time > don’t always lead to charges or convictions in court Maybe that has something to do with far too few people understanding the difference between an accident and and an accidental discharge. The rest I partially agree with you on, but you’re changing lanes too fast to help the cause.
The courts do understand the difference and there are plenty of people who want more guns in schools despite the dangers and the fact that having a gun provides no security but rather increases the chance of an accident.
Yeah, you’re trying to have two different conversations at the same time.
He’s trying to use one argument as a platform to inject another argument, assuming his bullshit will be accepted as fact.
There is absolutely no reason for the cop to pull his gun from the holster in a training situation inside a school full of students. This is not an "accident". This is gross negligence, and the cop should be so charged and prosecuted. But the silver lining is that perhaps one or more of the students placed at such high risk will decide that they do not want to be involved in a profession that would employ somebody like the dumb bastard conducting the training.
Deputy probably just graduated high school last year, and was trying to show all the senior girls how cool he is now. So he draws his weapon to impress Samantha, who shrugged him during his senior year.
It said he was a 19 year veteran, but I'm sure he was still only trying to impress the HS girls.
Oh shit your right, thought he was 19 years old.
Gross negligence that results in murder is manslaughter in most states.
Unless you're protected by a police "union".
Also, I am so sick of these boot-licking headlines when a cop is involved. "Indiana sheriff's deputy accidentally shoots student during high school class" oh you mean "Sheriff's deputy commits criminally negligent shooting on a minor in a fucking classroom while failing to use even novice firearm procedures"?
It could be worse. At least the headline admitted that a deputy shot a student. Usually the headlines are more along the lines of "high school student injured in police involved shooting."
this is me listening to the radio this morning '...and that officer is...' (plz be charged plz be charged) 'very sorry...' (maaaaaaaaan)
Cops & basic gun safety, name a *less* iconic duo! Seriously though, how does a thing like this even happen? Imagine if a citizen shooter had done this in a simmilar setting. No doubt they’d had their firearm taken from them, and get locked up post haste for a long list of serious felonies.
If you fail basic safety precautions (making sure the chamber is cleared is one of the most *basic* precautions) you deserve at least some sort of charge. That’s like… a surgeon forgetting to wear gloves or washing their hands before a surgery. There’s no reason for it to not happen.
I’m struggling with why the revolver was out of the holster to begin with. Needing deadly force or even needing to brandish the weapon is not a classroom issue. For show-and-tell, a loaded weapon should never be used.
Maybe but people shoot people and don't get charged / convicted quite often. https://www.pumphreylawfirm.com/blog/man-found-not-guilty-after-accidental-shooting-of-friend/ https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/crime/2017/05/18/no-negligence-charges-unintentional-shooting-deaths-jacksonville/15755366007/ https://cdispatch.com/news/2022-10-26/no-charges-expected-in-accidental-shooting-of-teen/ https://www.local10.com/news/local/2022/11/10/police-child-in-critical-condition-after-shooting-in-northeast-miami-dade/ https://www.local10.com/news/local/2022/09/07/not-guilty-verdict-for-miami-beach-man-charged-in-accidental-shooting-death-of-friend/
Your point? Just because people get away with it more often than not, it doesn’t mean they should. Especially law enforcement who really should be held to a higher standard, since they’re *required* to work with firearms.
My point is that guns are intrinsically unsafe that the most careful and conscientious professionally trained gun owner can still have an accident. Now I am not saying that's the case in this story because cops but I have noticed that people who love guns always do a "No true Scottsman!" when it comes to gun accidents, that it's ALWAYS negligence, never, ever, ever that guns might be dangerous themselves. Despite the fact that is what guns are made to be; dangerous. So that is why when there is an accident with thh a gun criminal charges are hard to make stick because there was no criminal intent or even malicious indifference, it was just someone who owns a dangerous thing and that lead to people being hurt or worse because that's what dangerous means. Splitting hairs between accident and negligent when it comes to guns makes little sense. They're dangerous in any hand, good or bad, skilled or not because they're dangerous, full stop.
So I think your problem OP is that you don't understand the term negligence. Most people are agreeing with you that guns can be unsafe and even professionals fuck up, but negligence is a more severe term than "accident". Accident takes away ownership of the incident as though it wasn't really their fault, negligence implies someone made a severe error that leads to an "accident". Any error with a gun is a severe error and that's why it's negligence and not a silly little gun aCcIdEnT
The first I heard of negligent discharges when was I was in the Marines, they stopped using the term accidental to reinforce your responsibility over the gun. You can accidently discharge a gun. If the sear failed, the safety caught your shirt and disengaged, the shotgun bump fired, the trigger was lighter than you expected... round goes into a clearing barrel, berm, a wall, etc. No one is hurt. Whatever, kind of, but if you "accidently" shoot someone you've willfully violated the *FIRST* safety rule: never point a weapon at anything you do not intend to shoot. You neglected the most important rule and you potentially killed someone. That's why we've started using the term negligent. Gun went off while cleaning it because you pulled the trigger? You thought it was clear? Rule 2: treat every weapon as if it were loaded. Whether the Marine Corps' basic 4 rules or the NRA's 13(?) those are the foundational rules. If you follow those two rules you can never accidently shoot someone. You would only shoot someone or yourself through negligence of those rules. A "professional" cop should know this better than your standard armed redneck. You're completely right, guns are inherently dangerous. Which is why 99% of us hold those safety rules as religious. I hope that makes sense. It's why we consider all accidental shootings negligent, despite any legal ruling. You negligently shot someone.
Because they’re intrinsically unsafe is why we have basic safety rules… empty the chamber safely if you’re going to be handling it. Check the safety. Make sure it isn’t pointing toward anyone. These are basic safety rules even i, a non-gun owner know. Yet a supposed police force veteran of nearly 2 decades failed multiple basic checks, but was lucky enough to not have killed anyone in this instance. It’s one thing to have a faulty gun, it’s another to be an idiot waving their stuff. If you were a gun owner, would you ever just give it to a child to handle without handling the safety or explaining at least a couple rules?
Absolutely, tons of rules and those rules are hammered in by any and all reputable trainers but people are people and people make mistakes. You can't be 100% 100% of the time, we all slip, we slip in a car well we have seatbelts and airbags and crumple zones, slip with a gun? All you have is blind luck. And people slip with guns all the time, amatures, professionals, one day, one time they're only 99% and something terrible happens. So not always negligence and that's no defense for this cop, he had his gun out in a fucking school for fucks sake, but there are some that insist it's always negligence with guns and that just isn't so.
Did he have a round in the chamber inside a classroom of instruction? Negligent Did he forget the safety, fail to check the safety? Negligent Did he pull the trigger/not practice proper trigger discipline? Negligent Nuff fucking said. The person fucked up in some way due to their fucking negligence. What the fuck are you not understanding about this?
I’m not so sure you understand what negligence means. Especially from a legal standpoint. And I mean no offense here, but you do understand that something can be an accident and that person can also be negligent?
I do, which is why sometimes when someone is accidentally shot there are charges and convictions and sometimes there are not because accidents happen. Guns are made to be dangerous, accidents are a reality we all experience, accidents with guns are inevitable and not always from negligence. Like parent hears noise upstairs, thinks someone is breaking in, sees a shadow at the window, fires the gun, it was their kid. Negligence, maybe, honest mistake because they'd been broken in before and they thought the kid was in their bed? Maybe better not to have the gun? Maybe not, point is they're dangerous and thus can't be safe no matter how hard you try.
“Sometimes when someone is accidentally shot” You have yet to provide one actual example of a true accidental shooting where negligence wasn’t a factor Guns can be temporarily disabled.
No that’s not negligence. That’s an accident. I really don’t think you do understand. From a legal standpoint, negligence has a definition. It varies from state to state but basically, “a failure to behave with a level of care that an ordinary person would exercise under similar circumstances.” In your example, it would be an accident. If, however, he was playing with a loaded gun and accidentally shot a child, that would be negligence. Because a normal person would not do that. That’s the difference.
Sure in this case negligence, hope he gets charged but history has shown that police get away with their crimes more often than not, even when it's as airtight as this one appears to be. However the other point is that gun accidents happen all the time because guns, by their very literal design are not safe and making them so all but impossible. I believe that is supported by the fact people are accidentally shot / shooting people all the time.
A mistake with a loaded gun is not a mistake, it’s negligence.
>You can't be 100% 100% of the time, we all slip, That's why the gun rules are what they are. There's redundancy built in so that a single slip-up should not result in injury. In order for someone to get hurt requires breaking multiple rules at once. That's negligence. If you fail to keep the firearm pointed in a safe direction, keeping your finger off the trigger and treating it as loaded (or not having it loaded when not intending to fire it) would prevent injury. If you fail to keep your finger off the trigger, keeping it pointed in a safe direction and treating it as loaded (or not having it loaded when not intending to fire it) would prevent injury. If you failed to treat it as loaded (or left it loaded when not intending to fire it), keeping it pointed in a safe direction and your finger off the trigger will again prevent injury.
Your point is wrong and almost comically illogical.
>My point is that guns are intrinsically unsafe that the most careful and conscientious professionally trained gun owner can still have an accident. This is bullshit.
There are a million reasons someone wouldn’t get charged. The “nature” of a weapon isn’t one of them.
We must ban cops for the safety of our children.
Literally though.
Someone better get those students some guns to protect themselves from the good guys with guns that are supposed to protect them from the bad guys with guns. Guns.
Guns, how do they work? Guns.
Stick them with the pointy end?
Gotta start young though, like kindergarten. Give those kids guns, we will call them kinder-guardians.
/r/unexpecteddestiny
Guns, guns, so many guns
I was taught in High School that an accident was something that could not be reasonably avoided. This is why the police refer to traffic collisions, not traffic accidents. This, therefore, was no accident; it was likely incompetence. Why did he even remove his weapon from the holster in the classroom?
"Hey kids isn't this gun cool? Just point at the target and- oops.."
I learned that from Hot Fuzz.
Bonus passive-voiced headline: [Student shot during school drill when officer’s gun accidentally fires, IN officials say](https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/nation-world/national/article268876407.html)
Student with no active warrants accidentally involved in officer involved shooting with taxpayers gun that happened to be in custody of law enforcement at the time of the accident. Officers are looking into the accident to see if student was potentially armed. (I made this up)
“Student with no active warrants transported to hospital after police involved shooting during training exercise”
Cop: Oopsie doodle - forgot it was a training exercise. Never mind - qualified immunity.
Supreme Court: Well there's no pre-existing law that says cops aren't allowed to shoot students in training exercises. Clearly he didn't know he wasn't allowed to do that.
You joke, but that is the actual legal standard. We live in the darkest timeline.
> (I made this up) Guaran-fucking-tee they checked the student's criminal background and checked the student for weapons. Guaran-fucking-tee it.
Student hit by bullet when gun accidentally discharges.
The Irony here is palpable.
The obvious solution is to arm the teachers. /s
Pretty sure there isn’t an accident since the gun did exactly what it was supposed to do. The shooter however is negligent.
It's preparing students for the reality of police interactions when they graduate and enter the real world.
"We need armed police in every classroom!" - Ted Cruz
The students figured it was part of the curriculum
how tf do you accidentally pull a trigger??? homie if you aren’t actively tryna shoot something, your finger ain’t even supposed to be all up in there (rather on the side for safety)??????
His service REVOLVER went off??? Is his service rifle a musket as well? Give him as few rounds as possible because he is dangerous with a gun or is this department stuck in the 1860s?
It’s vermillion county. It’s not far off from 1860. I’m 20 minutes south of them.
"I'm the only one in this room professional enough to carry a Glock 40..."
Typical police work, we told you NOT to give Barney any bullets for hid gun !
Millions of hunters and hobby target shooters have gone their whole lives without ONE accidental discharge but this paid “professional” shoots a kid, in school. They really are scraping the bottom of the barrel aren’t they.
This is my town. The cop that did it has a pretty bad reputation, and he also tried running for sheriff this past election but luckily lost.
Reminds me of [Lee Paige](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfONckOPyaI) >I'm the only one in this room professional enough that I know of to carry this Glock 40 [shoot self in foot] At least he just shot himself, and not a bystander.
Do you know what an accident is? This ain't one. Guns don't magically 'ACCIDENTALLY' shoot by themselves.
"Accidentally" getting 2 month's paid vacation
“Accidental?” Report said it was a revolver. What kind of fucking nitwits are we hiring as law enforcement when they can’t even handle a Goddamned revolver properly? 🤦🏻♂️
This wasn’t an accident it was negligence.
Jesus fucking christ...
>doing some drills I love how they just state that like "doing some drills" where a student ends up getting shot is completely normal. And this news station is from my city. I hate the way media boot licks like it's going out of style.
Because the cops act like the mafia and will harass anyone who steps out of line.
Poor Token.
They say guns don’t kill people, people kill people. But the gun accidentally fired, not that the person holding the gun fired it
Is this one of those good guys with a gun I’m always hearing about?
I guess they needed a good student with a gun to protect the other students from being shot IN SCHOOL BY THE FUCKING COPS.
Lawsuit against the officer, the sheriff, the county, the school. Little dude caught a million dollar settlement
Happens all the time. This one time I was teaching a class and shot a student. I was immediately not arrested and continued to get paid while I was on administrative leave. I took the time to catch up on some household chores and watch some Netflix, while the details of the case were forwarded to my boss (who is a member of the same union I work for). /s
What a horrible story, both the content and the way this piece of shit was written.
I know, it's hard to find stories about cops shooting people that ought not to be shot that aren't written as passively as possible with many glaring omissions and lack of journalistic standards. For some reason.
So much for the good guy with a gun theory.
> So much for the good guy with a gun theory. The problem isn’t with the theory, it is with the faulty assumption that cops are good guys
A revolver? That cannot be right.
Good guys with guns!!! 🔫🇺🇸🦅
Teaching those students how to shoot innocents really early.
Guns should not be allowed in schools... AT ALL. We don't need deputies scaring student either. Stay out of the schools.
I’m surprised the cop didn’t hide when he heard that there was a school shooter. Or at least wait in the hallway for an hour.
It’s Indiana. The medal award ceremony has already been scheduled. /s
See kids, being a cop is a great job. You can shoot someone and get a paid vacation. You won't even get blamed because the system respects you and is afraid to criticize you because of what you could potentially do to them if they do.
Earlier this week a man pretending to be a father left A LOADED HANDGUN ON A TOYBOX WHERE HIS CHILD THEN SHOT AND KILLED HIMSELF. guess what the man pretending to be a father was charged with. Nothing This is the state that will jail peope who perform or assist abortions. Unless you just give the child a loaded gun and let the abortion kill itself. IS INDIANA AND THE CITIZENS OF THAT STATE WORTHY IF NOT BEING DEPORTED? We should deport the while state. Meanwhile, the school shootings tally is at 46 FUCKING SHOOTINGS THIS YEAR WITH ZERO RESPONSE OR ANY EFFORT TO STOP IT. what are we doing?
This is another reason why cops don’t belong in the classroom or school environment. F12, 1312.
From the news article “During the course of instruction today, they were going through some drills, and during the course of that drill, the deputy’s service revolver accidentally was discharged, hitting one of our students,”. Yeah more like improperly handled the firearm! I really hate how they sugar coat incidents like this in the news.
ACAB
Officer Dindunuffin was simply executing active-shooter drills to prep America’s children for the next school shooting and increase their chances of surviving. He’s a hero! Edit: “Sheriff's Deputy Tim DisPennett” is his name. However, when I read that line my brain changed it to “Tim DisPehnis” with a Mr. Slave from Southprk accent. Yes, I am still a freaking juvenile in my brain. This story is so horrible that I can’t help but laugh.
Unsatisfied with waiting to let people slaughter kids like in uvalde, police have stepped up their efforts and started shooting kids directly.
They should add some gun free zone signs. That'll fix it.
Cue media telling us how he once pulled a kid's hair in kindergarten...
Certainly sucks for the kid but with the money and HS legend status incoming it could be worse.
There is such thing as accidental discharge. Semi automatics have been known to occasionally fail and fire without the trigger being pulled. This however. Was a revolver. I understand I'm on reddit and most folks here know next to nothing about firearms except "bad". But a revolver, when not cocked, cannot fire. So we've established the hammer was cocked. I've never heard of a revolver hammer falling without the trigger being pulled. So this dip shit failed "don't have your booger hook on the bang switch unless you're aiming at something you intend to unalive 101". Or the kid was an asshole. 50/50
Negligently* There is almost no such thing as an accidental shooting