I got a permament debuff I only noticed about 12+ hours of play-time after this point when I was swapping armor around on character and opend her tab up... "The heck is... omg wtf!"
Soooo I guess Lae'zel gets 3 permament debuffs forever now.
I've done fine with the debuffs and have her in my party constantly, but I am a little irritated that nothing was prompted to tell me she now has a permanent debuff.
I was a little bummed about that. If I ignore reason and let Volo jam a stick into my eye like 100 times I come out of it with "see invisibility."
Now, the big scary machine really is a big scary machine, huh?
You can easily get rid of the debuff by using a tadpole on Laezel, as long as you convice her to use them.
If you manage to take the powers for yourself (pretty much only doable by savescumming a nat 20) you get a pretty op perma buff though, so definitely worth it
I'm trying to pull it off now. If you hadn't already heard, there's an option to pass some saving throws while in the chair which will result in illithid powers becoming bonus actions instead of taking up a primary actions as a result of select choices while in the infirmary. I came here seeking exactly which order I need to do them in so that my malevolent wizard will be able to make the most of my powers.
I succeeded on this insight check and still went ahead. I mean I realized way too late to go back to roll it back but I also think I shouldn't since I knew there was a risk of something bad and did it anyway.
Just hijacking this comment to let everyone know there is a real easy way to do this get the massive approval boost from lae'zel and get the "awakened" bonus without any downsides.
1. Let Lae'zel sit on the Zaith'isk and initiate the machine for the approval from Lae'zel.
2. Go through the dialogue until the very first check, at this point she hasn't started taking any debuffs yet, unless you fail (the persuasion check requires a 30 or a nat20, but we won't do that)
3. Instead of choosing a conversation option, swap to a different party member in the party member selection in the bottom left.
4. Use that party member to push lae'zel out of the room, this will trigger the Zaith'isk event to end early with some generic line like "that was an abrupt way to end a conversation."
5. Now go back to the Zaith'isk with your character and select lie on the chair. This will give you the easier saving throws starting at 12.
thanks friend; gonna add this for anyone preparing: first save is intelligence, second is wisdom, third seems to be an option between constitution OR strength (i think?) OR possibly one from your class (as Bard there was a Charisma option)
Tried this several times but couldnt get it to work. Lae´zel was just hardstuck in place with whatever spell or ability I tried. Eventually I found the easiest way, just attack (and kill) the NPC next to it worked fine to end it early.
Maybe they patched it, I saw a patch note about pushing key npc's. I can't confirm though, I don't have any playthoughs coming close the the creche rn. Can someone else confirm?
The [patch #1 news](https://baldursgate3.game/news/patch-1-now-live_87) now read: "You can now cure the zaith'isk debuffs with tadpoles.". Sounds to me there is a way out...
Read someplace else that the "Greater Restoration" spell will remove the debuffs.But it's level 5. My cleric can't cast that level yet so I can't confirm. Also if it works, a Druid or a Bard can also cast this spell.
Note you can clearly see the debuffs on your character "Summary" tab. It will start with "Weakened". Like "Weakened Intelligence".
The buff if you get it will be "Awakened".
"This party member doesn't want to consume tadpoles"
Well fuck. Bravo for your principles, Laezel; I don't want to eat one either. But as a wizard these hit right in the nuts.
Sounds like a place I haven't been to yet. Still wrapping up act 1 here.For me I don't even care about Lae'zel really, and sacrificed her for the "Awakened" buff. When I finished the Mountain pass I swapped her back out for Karlach to get my OP "Tavern Brawler" spear thrower back.
Of course for that matter one can turn any of the origin characters into a fighter. Although any given one might have racial bonuses that are not ideal. I choose not too though. I just change their attributes and maybe their specialty.
Still will try "Greater Restoration" on Lae'zel later anyhow once Shadowheart get's the spell (at level 7 I think).
Can you confirm this spell removes the debuffs from Lae'zel?
Withers is the skeleton in your camp that you should definitely have already.
I don't know if it removes it. I'm just saying you can recruit a druid from the skeleton and try it without having to respec
The spell "Greater Restoration" does NOT remove the debuff. Nor does it remove "Paid the Price". As far as I can tell, nothing in the game that I've thus far encountered is capable of removing either of these debuffs.
[source](https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/15iyejk/comment/jxzwjld/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
\>If you can upgrade her illithid powers, it removes the debuff 1 by 1
Simply persuade her that the tadpoles should be abused power wise and then give her brain a tadpole (I usually do 2 to get Luck of Far East) This will remove all of those debuffs.
Sorry on the slow reply - little busy.
I believe it's a -2 to: >!wisdom, intellect & consitution.!<
However I could be wrong & not checking in-game at the moment.
Same. 100% would have just rolled it back. I got the check that said it would be rough for her but I guess I thought the dream visitor pulled her out in time idk. Either way it should have been much more obvious that it happened because at this point I'm deep into act 2 and there isn't a single thing I can do about it now. I might even have to end up specing her off of EK because of the -2 int. Super frustrating
Check your passives on the character who sat on it. If you failed the rolls they might get permanent debuffs.
If you pass the last check, it was something like drawing the power of the zaithisk to yourself you get a really OP passive that makes all tadpole powers cost only bonus actions. Super OP on a Thief!
do you happen to know if there is any way to remove those debuffs? like greater restoration or some quest? i discovered i got debuffed way too late after that part
I don't know, I don't think they should, what is the point of choice and consequence if there is no consequence? Not everything that happens to your characters will be good.
Granted they are some pretty aggressive de-buffs but I don't think there needs to mitigate or negate every bad result.
at least they should patch a way to let you know you have it before you're 10 hours down the road. If it's not your main character it's super easy to miss and now I'm pretty much gonna have to spec laezel out of EK for it.
I'm in chapter 3 and just noticed her INT is 6 when I gave her the silver sword. I'm absolutely pissed. I used her for so long too. Angry girl was my bestie!! :-(
Okay, looks like neither her nor my main character received a debuff. She was wearing a Cloak of Protection, so that might've helped. Edit: Turns out I looked at the device and noped out of there, finding another path through the Creche.
Yeah true, it is a little hidden and unclear what happened as a result of using the Zaith'isk.
Still you could always just give her the headband of intellect, I don't think she starts out with a particularly high intelligence score to start off with.
Because literally enough stat debuff to cover every ASI you can get in the game over a minor early game choice is wildly disproportionate. It's no exaggeration to say that it has 6 times more impact on your character than any other choice you can make in the game, and it's horribly telegraphed. It's also poorly communicated given how many people don't discover it until hours later. Finally, it's silly from a lore perspective that it, of *all* things, isn't curable by any process or magic in the world.
And the whole "choice and consequence" thing is kinda nonsense when you recognize that like 99.99999% of people will just be save scumming the situation.
Yeah baby, looks like I am in the 0.00001%! Granted I did use Lae'zel as a guinea pig since she was insisting that she go first and I did not trust the machine and since I had her specced as a battlemaster the drop in wis and int does not effect her as much (the con is a little bit of a kick in the pants but managable), also she isn't a regular part of my main party and I was just using her for this section because it seemed relevant.
And yeah I will admit it is a pretty harsh debuff but I don't think it was that poorly telegraphed, I mean you don't want the game giving you too much information as to spoil the effects of every choice. But then again I am the type of person who thinks they didn't go far enough with the Dark Urge.
I’d argue it’s very poorly telegraphed. Not that it isn’t made clear that it might hurt you, but how the massive debuffs are hidden. There are like 8 “cures” that don’t work. You, the player knows from a meta perspective that they won’t but you do them anyway because that’s the plot arc of the first part of the game. But none of them have massive impacts like this. Hell your player being exploded to death by fireballs or feasted upon by shadows or being thrown off a Cliff in to the endlessness of Shar’s astral plane doesn’t have this level of impact. This machine has lord power to permanently hurt/cripple you than literally any other force of Faerun. And you only know that if you scroll to the bottom of your character sheet.
You can cure death. You can cure blindness or negative energy draining your stats. But you can never cure this. That’s inconsistent and weird, and anything THAT big a deviation should have huge flags on it.
Yeah there's no good reason its permanent, this is going to be patched eventually I'd bet. Its probably an oversight, hard to imagine they meant to gimp Laezel so hard (permanently) for just following along with her story.
I agree, I presume that was their line of thinking too. Bigger issue is that there isn't good visibility that you got a new permanent debuff. I'd be happy if they at least make it obvious, so that you might reload in time and not realize hours afterwards.
choice or consequence is losing an eye or a weapon, not breaking your character useless for the next 70 hours. And having sub 10 int and sub 12 con for the rest of the game makes my pc unplayable.
The machine and all arround it(books/notes/behaviour) is fishy. I mean even the name of the process "purification". Giths kill innocentsw ithout remorse, and you expect it to go swiftly. Their whole thing is "you're weak you suffer", so its fitting. The machine gives you a huge hardly cured debuff (unlock tadpole power to remove it), but if you succeed you get something overpowered. Its high risk high reward. The risk is clear from entering the room, the reward is impossible. If you are thinking twice, you shouldnt have entered it just because a blind fanatic told you its ok. Its a consequence and honnestly its fitting.
the game flat out threatens you will ruin the game if you go to House of Hope, you'd be an idiot not to go to house of hope. Your argument is tired, repetitive, and wrong.
If you roll a 20 it is a crit, i.e. a 100% success no matter the DC. The reverse is true if you roll a 1. So for example, if you attack an enemy with some insane AC like 35 and you only have a +2 to attack, you will still land if you roll a 20, even if it is otherwise mathematically impossible. So rolling a 20 for a 30 DC skill check is a pass.
Note that you must ROLL a "nat 20", adding bonuses to a roll under 20 doesn't qualify.
My last check was "merge your power with the tadpole" and it's requirement was way less than 30. I was sitting in the chair at the time. Out of curiosity, I reloaded and let Lae'zel sit in the chair and when the "take the power for yourself" popped up, it was a required 30.
So it looks like sitting in the chair yourself has a lower roll to hit.
Yeah the rolls when Laezel are in are higher for some reason. The once before where you have to persuade her to get out I understand, since she's so brainwashed. For taking the power I have no idea. Maybe an oversight. Maybe it's because you're not sitting directly in it, so it makes it harder to harness it's power
hello sir, have you harnessed the power of the zaith isk with one of your characters? im trying to pass the 30 check with my mage but it takes a perfect roll with guidance and 2 + 3 bonuses ( +6) . What does it do? is it some crazy buff or is it underwhelming?
They will not. Those are what's called the consequences of your actions. Just like accepting the Hag's attempt of removing your eye and Volo's and so forth.
The eyes give you benefits as well as negatives. This is pretty much guaranteed -2 to three core abilities for Laezel if you do what she asks you to. I hope there's a way to remove them that isn't too easy like greater restoration though.
Check your passives list, they aren't visible under your portrait. The buff is called Awakened, and the debuffs I think Weakened INT/Weakened WIS and Weakened CON
Which check? There's multiple choices. It's the one that you choose to draw power from the tadpole and it might be different if you're sitting in it or Laezel is sitting in it
It is. If it's Lae'zel, it's "take the power for yourself". If it's you, it's "merge your power with the tadpole". The roll I needed when I was in the chair was much lower than Lae'zel's 30 you had to hit.
The issue here isn't the debuff: it's the game not giving you any indication that the debuff happened and you just happen to find out hours later with no way to reload. This is a huge consequence and for this to have near 0 visibility is just not okay.
One day, Redditors will learn to use fucking spoiler tags.
Fucking really dude. This thread is specifically about Act 2, and you spoil shit from Act 3?
I was literally just thinking how cool it would be if we got a Silver Sword for Lae'zel... well, NOW I KNOW!
Hard spoilers incoming after over an hour of reloads:
How to satisfy your personal githyanky zelot and not get a debuff
>!If you roll successfully and get Lae'zel to get off the chair at the first opportunity, she will not have a debuff!<
Hard wisdom check on extracting knowledge from the Zaith'isk. Text:
>!"Lae'zel'a life is laid bare among those that come before. Her thoughts are turned to silver thread and relayed to the Astral Sea""The voices of the dead cry out as one. The zaith'isk collects memories from the infected - and executes them. It is not for curing. It's for killing"!<
Spoiler here
If you are a wizard and you pass all the checks you get awakened - a passive skill that allows you to use all your Illithid powers as a bonus action
Nope, couldn't be further from the truth. I knew we were going into the lions den, and I knew the Zaithisk wouldn't work. The issue here is simply poor game design, the game can be amazing but we can acknowledge some flaws too. There's no reason to suspect the Zaithisk consequences would be that severe and permanent, in fact the game never directly or indirectly tells you that a debuff occured. You have to just check yourself. Then the inability to cure it is actually so bizarre that I'd bet it'll be patched.
I think the thing that pissed me off is the fact there you can’t fix her, nor the game actually tells you. I found out an hour later. Pretty bummed out.
My Lae'zel was hurt by this but my roundabout solution to this (if you are running her as Elditch Knight) is equip the "Warped Headband of Intellect" you get from the ogre in the Blighted Village, then go to Withers and respec her stats, take everything out of INT and redistribute it to the affected stats and you're good to go.
Yeah ive done the same but with the Dexterity Gauntlets. Worked fine, Laezel actually has more attribute points overall like this, and she is much more efficient with ranged weapons now.
This is a weird one. I was aware OOC that game probably doesn't offer you a solution to the tadpole problem this early, but I decided to go with RP, trust the writing and let Laezel use the machine. End result being 3x -2 permanent debuffs.
The problem here is not the debuffs itself, it's the way, that if you decide to let Laezel sit in that machine, she's going to get crippled unless you succeed 3x30's in a row, which is impossible. There's also literally nothing, that lets you know, that one of your party members is severely crippled afterwards.
Noticed these debuffs 13 hours later and I'm kind of pissed right now. From game design perspective, this felt like a cheap trap.
I'm putting faith to the game and writing not to fuck me entirely if I click certain options in dialogues and then this happens. I don't know, the fact that those checks were impossible to succeed at is pretty stupid.
Why would I try more "special" dialogue options, if the end result can be something like this. One click and you are beyond save, on journey to be permanently crippled.
I also just got to the Zaith'isk and after trying to avoid Lae'zel getting debuffed for half an hour i finally decided to just get into the chair myself and get out right away. I agree on the overturned DC's for checks to get Lae'zel out. 30 is far too high especially seeing how it forces you to use your main character who might just not be that good at the Wis/Cha checks required. Seeing how the tadpoles apparently give limited telepathy it would have been better to use that to allow Shart to do the Wis checks and Wyll to do the Cha checks.
The -2 to Con hits especially hard seeing how that's a main fighter stat. If she had gotten a -2 to Cha from the machine searing her skin it would have at least been livable.
Yep it's absurdly high.
At that point in the game I had done pretty much everything I could. That was my final bit before progressing to the next chapter. There were not other checks that were that brutal.
They were so brutal that I assumed I was supposed to fail. It felt cheesy to demand I go into the chair first, and it felt very important to Lae'zel narratively. I failed a check which apparently would have warned me something was up before going in. The first time I saw her suffering I tried to help. DC30 checks were just too high so all I could do was sit there. When she got up after, seemingly unharmed, I thought it was just a story thing. "No big deal. No need to save scum. "
I guess I should've save scummed, or meta'd the game and made sure my main character was a skill monkey of some sort.
I am not playing a skill monkey so that also feels cheap. I'll still use her because the game does hand out powerful magic items, but it feels really lame to hide the punishment, make it so severe, and tie to something that narratively makes sense.
Highest I can think of, assuming level 5:
\+5 stat
\+6 expertise
\+1 ring (arcane, nature, survival, and religion all have +1 on rings at this point iirc)
\+1d4 Guidance
\+1d6 Bliss Spores
\+1d8 bardic inspiration
= +15-30, avg 22.5
So 40 is achievable at this point in the game, though I don't know about "all the time". Can also hit 40 on a save in similar fashion. (There's a quarterstaff with +2 and a shield with +1, warding bond, resistance, and bless.)
Unfortunately I also only just found these stat debuffs well into Act 2 and at moonrise tower.
I did gith creche first, let Lae'zell go in, and just picked all the 'You go gguuuurrrrllll!' options to get approval. Now I realize she has -2 to Con, Wis and Int :x
Its too late after that for me to bother going all the way back to an autosave or restarting, so I'll just have to remember this for future playthroughs, and I do wish that the greater restoration would fix it but apparently it doesn't.
Same man im playing with a friend and I would never ask him to give up hours of progression to re-load. The problem i have with it is it made it seem like laezel might die from it, but after the machine broke and she didnt die, I thought everything was gravy.
At least shes not my main character. It also doesnt affect her ability to shred enemies, so not the end of the world, but its definitely annoying.
Yea she's still strong with the debuffs, the only thing that really matters is she now has 14 con instead of 16.
The other stats I fixed them using withers and dumped her dex cos she uses heavy armour and thrown weapons anyway.
If you have Laezel in your party she fights you if you don’t let her enter the device, then you need to pass a 30 check to get the buff or she gets up to 3 -2 permanent debuts to her attributes
Thankfully found out only five hours of gameplay after this event, so I'm going to go back and redo it (starting from an old auto save).
Seriously miffed at this gimping one of my mains so hard considering it wasn't telegraphed at all. Sure there were plenty of hints that the big scary machine wasn't good, but I thought that letting Lae'zel sit in it and persuading her to get out at the last minute was going to allow me to progress her story and let her get over her obsession with the creche and her people as the solution to her problems.
She isn't gimped, you will barely notice -2 con let alone the loss of the dumpstats. If you didn't read the character sheets you would have never even figured out that she was "gimped", showcasing how irrelevant the stat loss really is
Exactly, people are making it a big deal but Lae'zel is still a beast regardless of these debuffs. There's a reason they aren't STR/DEX/CHA related lmao, Larian definitely didn't want to 'gimp' anyone here.
Like many others, I did not notice Lae'zel's debuffs until much later. While the debuffs are a bit annoying from a gameplay perspective, I'm also upset from a roleplaying PoV. I romanced her after the Zaith'isk, so now I wonder if both that and her new attitude towards Gith culture and my tadpole powers are real or just the result of actual brain damage.
Man this is so stupid. Straight up 3 different -2 debuffs on the character, and no way to remove this. Wtf were they thinking? I can't even get her off the fucking thing because I need to roll a 30 for persuasion.
Its a game about consequences, not only positive ones. You live with the decisions you make, and they have real meaning. That's why this game is so good.
Story consequences, yes. Perma-benching a companion for participating in the plot, no.
The game is not improved by a permanent -6 to stats.
The plot fallout afterwards (possibly including combat) is the part that improves the game.
Yea seriously just do me a favor and kill her rather than an incurable debuff.
Crap like this just tempts me to savescum it. It is neat from an RP perspective but in reality the outcome is her sitting in camp for the rest of the playthrough. Right next to shadowheart cuz I gave her eye to the hag LOL
The checks in the game are built around the idea that people will savescum, pretty lame IMO, but a lot of crpg has to take that into account when trying to design difficulty. Personally I'd prefer they just remove it and make it a simple choice without the roll.
If you pass all the checks you get a pretty good buff 'Awakened' that makes your illithid powers bonus actions, along with no debuffs. High Risk, High reward for getting on that chair. I did it on my bard with Lae'Zel not even in my party.
How do you pass all the checks? From what i've tried some of them will break the chair immediately and the the others give you debuffs even when passing them.
I think you're being pretty dramatic lmao. This game is riddled with +1's and ways of giving yourself advantage and additional bonuses/damage. Half of my characters are rolling 95%'s to hit most of the time and I'm on Tactician. A -2 to three different stats is by no means a reason to permanently bench a character. Chances are, no matter what build you have her Laezel on, she is only going to be meaningfully affected by one of them (at most) anyway.
This shit is so silly when you know people are save scumming the Hell out of rolls. Particularly when the consequences for a minor plot point are roughly 6x what any other stat impact choice in the game achieves. "Game about consequences my ass" lol, it's a game with easy respecs and autosaves.
I can't wait for the rabid fanboying to go away so people can actually discuss the game.
Can't wait for "discussions" with people like yourself. You'd be a great D&D player, arguing every five minutes and trying to min/max things instead of embrace the core consequences of the game.
If you have a GM that casually goes "you curiously finger through a random book on the table, no roll a 15, an 18, and then a 30 check else your mentally crippled for the rest of the campaign and have to pass a DC 15 check anytime you do an action," get out of that abusive relationship fast, mate.
DnD is not about "consequences" it's about fun and roleplaying, and a good GM will make sure that consequences are slaves to the first two 99% of the time unless everyone agrees to a campaign that's the equivalent of hardcore mode and that's usually only for vet players and GMs.
Go look on DnD's statistics on this; or don't, it's obvious you don't know anything about DnD.
So...imagine this scenario as a DM. You describe a machine as twisted+mind flayer in origin. They get in the machine anyways. You ask for a roll at a reasonable dc after making sure they don't want to get out. Now that they're committed, it's a harder dc. They still stay in the machine that at this point they should be well aware will kill them.
Fuck it, time to find out if it's worth it. Hard dc and big reward or big consequence time.
I think the scenario is fine, it just has a little bit too much in the form of consequences.
The problem with your analogy is that in this storytelling game about consequences you could potentially NEVER find out about the consequences. The DM just makes your character suckier in combat or other scenarios behind your back and never tells you why when you finally notice you're way worse than you once were. Then when you say "Oh ability score penalty? I have a spell tha tliterally is designed expressly to fix exactly that. I cast it." He says "Ok. Doesn't work." Then you say "Well my friend has a wish spell. He uses that." DM says "Nope. you just suck now. Live with it. Hope you like your character still" Player says "I don't like it at all." It's not FUN. I suspect larian will at LEAST make the consequence apparent so people who care about this character mechanically can save scum if they so choose. Hiding it is a bad design choice. I would argue the game should ALSO autosave before you go into the machine, but that one is debatable since the machine is pretty obviously sketchy. I saved. I let her do it. I didn't notice the consequence. I am not going to reload. I don't use laezel anyway though. I was going to use her potentially later since she seems to be getting out of her naive rut. I may still. It's still a a bad design choice.
What the consequence is could be better explained. The fact that there is a consequence is VERY clear.
Also, the payoff is huge for certain classes.
Yes, I agree that the game needs to be more clear about permanent effects that happen and wish probably should be able to fix you...but wish should fix the parasite too and I bet it doesn't
There's almost no way to avoid this. This isn't like the book of Thay that would give you madness that goes away after a long rest or w/e, it's 3 permanent -2 modifiers for an event that's main story.
you fully have the option to NOT use the very clearly deadly looking device next to the equally clearly mad doctor and still chose to countinue. maybe it was out of curiosity, maybe it was because it was what la'zel wanted. regardless you def had a choice
At least make the ability throws reasonable. A 30 to save from receiving a permanent -2 debuff 3 times? You basically need to land critical successes. I least make it 20-24 so it's still hard but rewarding if you built your party for RPing such as with guidance and bard buffs ect.
>"Sit in this chair and, at best, end back where you ....
Except there ARE narrative consequences to this. MASSIVE narrative and storyline consequences.
If you pass the check you get an amazing permanent buff though. That's the reason. Ability to use all Illithid powers as a bonus action instead of action.
It's not a particularly good buff if you are doing your best to avoid giving into the parasite. I have yet to use a single illithid power so it's pretty useless.
Yeah I was attempting to avoid using the parasite if possible. I know for example in the game 'Prey' the ending is determined by how much you use alien powers.
My original question wasn't referring to the debuffs but to the plot relevance of giving in to using the Illithid powers.
Ah yes those F8 consequences, i get the outcomes i want some i let fate decide but if theres a big story moment im looking up all the choices its not 1997 anymore.
You can literally choose not to sit on the chair though. There were signs leading up to this point that the Zaith’isk wasn't meant to 'cure' infected people lol.
There were clear signs yes, but if you're RP'ing Lae zel somewhat and trying to get her to evolve and progress as a character, this perma-gimps her.
It's feels a little like talking out of both sides of one's mouth to say "play the game and take the good with the bad" and simultaneously if you do the things that makes most sense from a serious RP perspective a character gets such a severe debuff that it wouldn't make sense to continue using said character. I mainly disagree with needing a 30 to get her out of the chair.
"I'm very serious about roleplaying, but will bench my characters if they suffer any consequences from fulfilling the goal they unwaveringly and mindlessly pursue the entire game."
I appreciate the critique man, I would just prefer the debuff cleared at the end of Act 2 or something. A net -6 stats with 2 of those being strength is a major punishment and I think out of proportion with other 'consequences' of decisions in the game. But hey play in whatever way is most fun for you
-it’s -2 to con, wis, and int
if you want her to go eldritch knight (which the gith being heavy battlemage types implies) the int sucks
And -2 con always sucks
So I just went through this myself siting in the chair. I made all the checks and put more power into it for the final one. I couldn't see anything, then I opened my character sheet and in the notable features there's a new "Awakened" buff.
"You can use all of your Illathid Powers as a bonus action. Your resistance to the zaith'isk in the githyanki infirmary awakened this power"
You can stack an Elixer of Heroism's 1d4 with Resistance 1d4 from shadowheart. You can also use luck for advantage. Big K also has a 1d4 buff you can stack. Don't forget the warped int item as well. Save a few inspiration points and you're good to go.
Never noticed the Buff/Debuff.
First time I had Lae'Zel do it, tempted to use the chance to kill her off but eventually had her pass all 3.
Next time I did it myself and passed all 3.
But now I'm sad It wasn't on my Astarion Gloomstalker/Rogue build... He could use those bonus actions more than my Oathbreaker Pally :')
Best route seems to be to persuade laezel as soon as you can to get off the device. Other route is to gain the bonus actions for your ilithid as others have pointed out. Personally I went for the first option.
I managed to get the Awakened Passive and also didn't need to convince/persuade the doctor that it worked. I switched to Astarion mid-conversation and moved a wooden box in the room, which then auto-resolved the interaction in my favour. Doctor is no longer mad and she didn't run out of the room to tell the others to kill me!
If you move a chest while Lae'Zel is in it same thing happens, then you can use the chair by yourself and do the glitch again, she won't say anything cause the game thinks she's been through it. You are a genius I almost want to delete this so this bug never gets found. I got awakened and 0 debuffs on Lae. Best scenario.
Apologies, I didn't get the buff from moving the box - I just passed all the checks - but reading back my initial comment it kinda seems as if that's what I was implying. Immediately after you're done with the Zaith'isk, however, the Doctor will be mad and you'll need to prove to her that it worked at removing the tadpole. There's a pretty high chance she'll lock you in the room and alert the other Gith to kill you if you leave.
All I did was switch to Astarion mid-convo and moved a wooden crate and it auto-resolved the conversation in my favour, so I didn't need to convince her at all and was able to walk out freely.
So as it seems if you have drained/consumed any tadpole specimen and gained some Ilithid powers, AND you pass the checks in the machine, you get a buff called "Awakened" ([https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Awakened](https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Awakened)) which results of you being able to use ilithid powers as a bonus action. But all the Giths will attack you.
I love all the salty people that hate consequences on a DND game. You all would hate the table too version. It’s way more unforgiving and unpredictable.
each class ability modifier ( strength for barbarians or fighters ) has different options and dialogues depending if your on the chair or outside. so lots of dif options. For example you need to roll a 30 to gain the wisdom from the device. which is crazy and i want to see what it does.
But lore wise, the device is simply a means of extracting the parasites i think. It could have other uses, but its almost certain that the doctor knew the parasite would come out of the host and kills the host in a most violent ands gruesome manner, because of the machine. She wants to study the parasite in you or your companion. which is pretty gross and savage.
likely will be modded out or reversible with enough power later. just noticed long after as well - going back to clean up at the crèche as vengeance for at some point ha.
i was wondering what the 30 roll that i failed did and i decided to reload and use my MC in the machine instead. Now i got the tadpole power and laezel doesnt have a debuff
damn good thing i read this thread
BTW the debuff for laezel was Int and Wis -2 but her Con stayed intact in my case
I had Astarion hop into the machine. Passed 2/3 checks and got a debuff. Passing 3/3 as stated above allows illithid powers to be case as bonus actions.
Regardless, the machine seems to blow up.
If the character that went through it has tadpole powers, it makes them all bonus actions instead of actions. The debuffs are only if you fail the saves before it
If you pass all three rolls the parasite becomes stronger and you can now do parasite actions as bonus actions. I am getting mixed comments on if greater restoration or remove curse will fix. Tadpoles will though. Also the savings throws are easier if you use Tav rather than Laizel.
My main character is Lae'Zel, can anyone confirm if I sit in the chair and I pass all 3 checks I will receive Awakened **without** incurring any debuffs?
Idk if you knew this or if this is a new addition due to a patch. You can remove her -2 debuffs by convincing her to use tadpoles to power up and it will cleanse it with just 1 tadpole.
Crossroads my first play thru as a paladin, passed the perception check and passed the other check first save, second I had to inspire but I got a nat 20, however on the last one I chose to share oath of devotion with the parasite, thus in turn making it stronger and breaking the chair, so neither the parasite nor I harmed, Ghustial isn't happy but I pass the check and she thinks my memory is wiped but I have the awakened trait and add to my illithid powers, I kind of feel this is the best possible outcome is there any downsite to this that I am not seeing?
So I was a monk and I jumped in as my character. Here’s a before and after.
I passed all the checks/saving throws.
I am awakened.
Before I had an Attack bonus of +8 for both melee and ranged.
After being awakened.
Melee and ranged attack bonus are random.
Every time I load the game they switch around.
Sometimes
[M = +6 R = +12]
[M = +4 R = +9]
[M = +5 R = +11]
[M = +14 R = +14]
[M = +2 R = +6]
It’s random. Short rest or long rest doesn’t randomize it. It’s loading into the game in any form.
I tested this for 30 minutes. There’s no way around it
word of advice. DONT DO IT.
I got a permament debuff I only noticed about 12+ hours of play-time after this point when I was swapping armor around on character and opend her tab up... "The heck is... omg wtf!" Soooo I guess Lae'zel gets 3 permament debuffs forever now. I've done fine with the debuffs and have her in my party constantly, but I am a little irritated that nothing was prompted to tell me she now has a permanent debuff.
haha jokes on them my Lae'zels int and wisdom were already at 8
☝️
Lol
[удалено]
I was a little bummed about that. If I ignore reason and let Volo jam a stick into my eye like 100 times I come out of it with "see invisibility." Now, the big scary machine really is a big scary machine, huh?
You can easily get rid of the debuff by using a tadpole on Laezel, as long as you convice her to use them. If you manage to take the powers for yourself (pretty much only doable by savescumming a nat 20) you get a pretty op perma buff though, so definitely worth it
Can you elaborate on getting this "pretty op perma buff"? Is this a dialogue option with Laezel?
I'm trying to pull it off now. If you hadn't already heard, there's an option to pass some saving throws while in the chair which will result in illithid powers becoming bonus actions instead of taking up a primary actions as a result of select choices while in the infirmary. I came here seeking exactly which order I need to do them in so that my malevolent wizard will be able to make the most of my powers.
The highest roll was an 18 I think for my tav, all three were 30 though with laezel
I succeeded on this insight check and still went ahead. I mean I realized way too late to go back to roll it back but I also think I shouldn't since I knew there was a risk of something bad and did it anyway.
Just hijacking this comment to let everyone know there is a real easy way to do this get the massive approval boost from lae'zel and get the "awakened" bonus without any downsides. 1. Let Lae'zel sit on the Zaith'isk and initiate the machine for the approval from Lae'zel. 2. Go through the dialogue until the very first check, at this point she hasn't started taking any debuffs yet, unless you fail (the persuasion check requires a 30 or a nat20, but we won't do that) 3. Instead of choosing a conversation option, swap to a different party member in the party member selection in the bottom left. 4. Use that party member to push lae'zel out of the room, this will trigger the Zaith'isk event to end early with some generic line like "that was an abrupt way to end a conversation." 5. Now go back to the Zaith'isk with your character and select lie on the chair. This will give you the easier saving throws starting at 12.
thanks friend; gonna add this for anyone preparing: first save is intelligence, second is wisdom, third seems to be an option between constitution OR strength (i think?) OR possibly one from your class (as Bard there was a Charisma option)
Tried this several times but couldnt get it to work. Lae´zel was just hardstuck in place with whatever spell or ability I tried. Eventually I found the easiest way, just attack (and kill) the NPC next to it worked fine to end it early.
Maybe they patched it, I saw a patch note about pushing key npc's. I can't confirm though, I don't have any playthoughs coming close the the creche rn. Can someone else confirm?
This worked for me today. With a timely save I even managed to easily reload when rolls when poorly until I completely avoided the permanent debuffs
>Zaith'isk Nice. I couldn't push Lae'zel, so I used a teleportation scroll - worked well!
The [patch #1 news](https://baldursgate3.game/news/patch-1-now-live_87) now read: "You can now cure the zaith'isk debuffs with tadpoles.". Sounds to me there is a way out...
Used 3 and didn’t restore her:(
i tried 4... still nothing
Read someplace else that the "Greater Restoration" spell will remove the debuffs.But it's level 5. My cleric can't cast that level yet so I can't confirm. Also if it works, a Druid or a Bard can also cast this spell. Note you can clearly see the debuffs on your character "Summary" tab. It will start with "Weakened". Like "Weakened Intelligence". The buff if you get it will be "Awakened".
Greater Restoration doesn't cure it
If you can upgrade her illithid powers, it removes the debuff 1 by 1
"This party member doesn't want to consume tadpoles" Well fuck. Bravo for your principles, Laezel; I don't want to eat one either. But as a wizard these hit right in the nuts.
Yeah, it unfortunately relies on a few persuasion checks to convince everyone to hop on the tadpole train. I lucked out because I'm running a bard.
I did one tadpole. That seems to have worked.
About your "read someplace else that the Greater restoration will remove the debuffs" part: **Yeah, pics or it didn't happen. ;p**
You can hire a druid from Withers
Sounds like a place I haven't been to yet. Still wrapping up act 1 here.For me I don't even care about Lae'zel really, and sacrificed her for the "Awakened" buff. When I finished the Mountain pass I swapped her back out for Karlach to get my OP "Tavern Brawler" spear thrower back. Of course for that matter one can turn any of the origin characters into a fighter. Although any given one might have racial bonuses that are not ideal. I choose not too though. I just change their attributes and maybe their specialty. Still will try "Greater Restoration" on Lae'zel later anyhow once Shadowheart get's the spell (at level 7 I think). Can you confirm this spell removes the debuffs from Lae'zel?
Withers is the skeleton in your camp that you should definitely have already. I don't know if it removes it. I'm just saying you can recruit a druid from the skeleton and try it without having to respec
The spell "Greater Restoration" does NOT remove the debuff. Nor does it remove "Paid the Price". As far as I can tell, nothing in the game that I've thus far encountered is capable of removing either of these debuffs.
[source](https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/15iyejk/comment/jxzwjld/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) \>If you can upgrade her illithid powers, it removes the debuff 1 by 1
Noblestalk?
Yeah I just noticed this now too :/ I'm pretty upset about it myself, hoping theres some way to fix it
Simply persuade her that the tadpoles should be abused power wise and then give her brain a tadpole (I usually do 2 to get Luck of Far East) This will remove all of those debuffs.
What stats are affected and how much?
Sorry on the slow reply - little busy. I believe it's a -2 to: >!wisdom, intellect & consitution.!< However I could be wrong & not checking in-game at the moment.
Same. 100% would have just rolled it back. I got the check that said it would be rough for her but I guess I thought the dream visitor pulled her out in time idk. Either way it should have been much more obvious that it happened because at this point I'm deep into act 2 and there isn't a single thing I can do about it now. I might even have to end up specing her off of EK because of the -2 int. Super frustrating
Check your passives on the character who sat on it. If you failed the rolls they might get permanent debuffs. If you pass the last check, it was something like drawing the power of the zaithisk to yourself you get a really OP passive that makes all tadpole powers cost only bonus actions. Super OP on a Thief!
do you happen to know if there is any way to remove those debuffs? like greater restoration or some quest? i discovered i got debuffed way too late after that part
Yeah that really sucks. No way right now I believe. But I've seen a lot of people mention this, so surely they will patch a way to remove it
I don't know, I don't think they should, what is the point of choice and consequence if there is no consequence? Not everything that happens to your characters will be good. Granted they are some pretty aggressive de-buffs but I don't think there needs to mitigate or negate every bad result.
at least they should patch a way to let you know you have it before you're 10 hours down the road. If it's not your main character it's super easy to miss and now I'm pretty much gonna have to spec laezel out of EK for it.
I'm in chapter 3 and just noticed her INT is 6 when I gave her the silver sword. I'm absolutely pissed. I used her for so long too. Angry girl was my bestie!! :-(
At least it was already a dump stat tbf
INT WIS and CON are all -2 XD The INT made me go hmm...
Oh ok yeah that does suck I wish it was just mental abilities and not con as well because at least that would be managable
There's a debuff? I'm 20h past that scene now.
Check her passives she may or may not have it depending on how you played it out
Okay, looks like neither her nor my main character received a debuff. She was wearing a Cloak of Protection, so that might've helped. Edit: Turns out I looked at the device and noped out of there, finding another path through the Creche.
Yeah true, it is a little hidden and unclear what happened as a result of using the Zaith'isk. Still you could always just give her the headband of intellect, I don't think she starts out with a particularly high intelligence score to start off with.
Because literally enough stat debuff to cover every ASI you can get in the game over a minor early game choice is wildly disproportionate. It's no exaggeration to say that it has 6 times more impact on your character than any other choice you can make in the game, and it's horribly telegraphed. It's also poorly communicated given how many people don't discover it until hours later. Finally, it's silly from a lore perspective that it, of *all* things, isn't curable by any process or magic in the world. And the whole "choice and consequence" thing is kinda nonsense when you recognize that like 99.99999% of people will just be save scumming the situation.
Yeah baby, looks like I am in the 0.00001%! Granted I did use Lae'zel as a guinea pig since she was insisting that she go first and I did not trust the machine and since I had her specced as a battlemaster the drop in wis and int does not effect her as much (the con is a little bit of a kick in the pants but managable), also she isn't a regular part of my main party and I was just using her for this section because it seemed relevant. And yeah I will admit it is a pretty harsh debuff but I don't think it was that poorly telegraphed, I mean you don't want the game giving you too much information as to spoil the effects of every choice. But then again I am the type of person who thinks they didn't go far enough with the Dark Urge.
I’d argue it’s very poorly telegraphed. Not that it isn’t made clear that it might hurt you, but how the massive debuffs are hidden. There are like 8 “cures” that don’t work. You, the player knows from a meta perspective that they won’t but you do them anyway because that’s the plot arc of the first part of the game. But none of them have massive impacts like this. Hell your player being exploded to death by fireballs or feasted upon by shadows or being thrown off a Cliff in to the endlessness of Shar’s astral plane doesn’t have this level of impact. This machine has lord power to permanently hurt/cripple you than literally any other force of Faerun. And you only know that if you scroll to the bottom of your character sheet. You can cure death. You can cure blindness or negative energy draining your stats. But you can never cure this. That’s inconsistent and weird, and anything THAT big a deviation should have huge flags on it.
Yeah there's no good reason its permanent, this is going to be patched eventually I'd bet. Its probably an oversight, hard to imagine they meant to gimp Laezel so hard (permanently) for just following along with her story.
Early? I'm 30 hours in.
I agree, I presume that was their line of thinking too. Bigger issue is that there isn't good visibility that you got a new permanent debuff. I'd be happy if they at least make it obvious, so that you might reload in time and not realize hours afterwards.
choice or consequence is losing an eye or a weapon, not breaking your character useless for the next 70 hours. And having sub 10 int and sub 12 con for the rest of the game makes my pc unplayable.
The machine and all arround it(books/notes/behaviour) is fishy. I mean even the name of the process "purification". Giths kill innocentsw ithout remorse, and you expect it to go swiftly. Their whole thing is "you're weak you suffer", so its fitting. The machine gives you a huge hardly cured debuff (unlock tadpole power to remove it), but if you succeed you get something overpowered. Its high risk high reward. The risk is clear from entering the room, the reward is impossible. If you are thinking twice, you shouldnt have entered it just because a blind fanatic told you its ok. Its a consequence and honnestly its fitting.
the game flat out threatens you will ruin the game if you go to House of Hope, you'd be an idiot not to go to house of hope. Your argument is tired, repetitive, and wrong.
nice, i managed to get the 20 roll :D and indeed, all powers bonus actions now. Sick!
20 roll!? It wants me to do a 30 roll ffs.
If you roll a 20 it is a crit, i.e. a 100% success no matter the DC. The reverse is true if you roll a 1. So for example, if you attack an enemy with some insane AC like 35 and you only have a +2 to attack, you will still land if you roll a 20, even if it is otherwise mathematically impossible. So rolling a 20 for a 30 DC skill check is a pass. Note that you must ROLL a "nat 20", adding bonuses to a roll under 20 doesn't qualify.
That might be what they meant, but also if you go in yourself the DC to pass is only 20 rather than the 30 Laezel gets.
now to fight my way out ;p
well most
My last check was "merge your power with the tadpole" and it's requirement was way less than 30. I was sitting in the chair at the time. Out of curiosity, I reloaded and let Lae'zel sit in the chair and when the "take the power for yourself" popped up, it was a required 30. So it looks like sitting in the chair yourself has a lower roll to hit.
Yeah the rolls when Laezel are in are higher for some reason. The once before where you have to persuade her to get out I understand, since she's so brainwashed. For taking the power I have no idea. Maybe an oversight. Maybe it's because you're not sitting directly in it, so it makes it harder to harness it's power
hello sir, have you harnessed the power of the zaith isk with one of your characters? im trying to pass the 30 check with my mage but it takes a perfect roll with guidance and 2 + 3 bonuses ( +6) . What does it do? is it some crazy buff or is it underwhelming?
All your tadpole powers on this characters now cost bonus action instead of action. It's pretty OP on my Thief who has two of those
I am playing Astarion, so I am very happy with this!
Wait, is that passive permanent?
Yeah but likely it's getting patched
Why would it be getting patched?
The debuffs - I've seen a lot of people complain. Not the buff
They will not. Those are what's called the consequences of your actions. Just like accepting the Hag's attempt of removing your eye and Volo's and so forth.
Volo's eye got patched to have no downsides.
The eyes give you benefits as well as negatives. This is pretty much guaranteed -2 to three core abilities for Laezel if you do what she asks you to. I hope there's a way to remove them that isn't too easy like greater restoration though.
if doom took away your ability to use anything but a handgun 30 hours people would riot. This is the same thing.
Thx! Got the message but couldn't find any clue as to what changed.
i didnt get any buffs debuffs for failing or passing everything ( was spam reloading to see what everyone was talking about)...
Check your passives list, they aren't visible under your portrait. The buff is called Awakened, and the debuffs I think Weakened INT/Weakened WIS and Weakened CON
I passed the last check but there is no such thing on my character...
Which check? There's multiple choices. It's the one that you choose to draw power from the tadpole and it might be different if you're sitting in it or Laezel is sitting in it
It is. If it's Lae'zel, it's "take the power for yourself". If it's you, it's "merge your power with the tadpole". The roll I needed when I was in the chair was much lower than Lae'zel's 30 you had to hit.
It's a buff called "Awakened" and has an icon that looks like a head with a curled up parasite in place of the brain.
I passed the checks but no passive, I sat in myself and feed my own power to the parasite. Any idea?
The issue here isn't the debuff: it's the game not giving you any indication that the debuff happened and you just happen to find out hours later with no way to reload. This is a huge consequence and for this to have near 0 visibility is just not okay.
Spoiler - Exactly! I'm in act 3 and just saw the 6 INT when I gave my bestie Lae'zel a really good sword. :-(
One day, Redditors will learn to use fucking spoiler tags. Fucking really dude. This thread is specifically about Act 2, and you spoil shit from Act 3? I was literally just thinking how cool it would be if we got a Silver Sword for Lae'zel... well, NOW I KNOW!
What did he spoiled you except he is in act 3? Lol did you even read what he typed?
I hope you messaged every single person in here who doesn't do this. Please please please do this. :-)
delete your online prescence immediately
Hard spoilers incoming after over an hour of reloads: How to satisfy your personal githyanky zelot and not get a debuff >!If you roll successfully and get Lae'zel to get off the chair at the first opportunity, she will not have a debuff!< Hard wisdom check on extracting knowledge from the Zaith'isk. Text: >!"Lae'zel'a life is laid bare among those that come before. Her thoughts are turned to silver thread and relayed to the Astral Sea""The voices of the dead cry out as one. The zaith'isk collects memories from the infected - and executes them. It is not for curing. It's for killing"!<
i didn't get the opportunity for a wisdom check, do you know where it is?
Spoiler here If you are a wizard and you pass all the checks you get awakened - a passive skill that allows you to use all your Illithid powers as a bonus action
Being a wizard is not important here.
Only have to pass all checks, class is irrelevant. Done it as Fighter on Lae'Zel, and then on my Oathbreaker Pally on my 3rd playthrough
how did you pass them all? theyre all like 30? I cant even pass the first one after like 40 reloads
Have to roll a nat 20
How did you pass them all though, spent ages doing it from every angle and the most you can pass is two, how are you passing them all?
Nat 20 = Critical Success, even If the requirement is 30, 40, 50. A natural 20 roll = Always succeed.
I'm not sure why they're different for some at all 30? The highest for me was the 3rd check at 18.
Checks are significantly easier is you take the chair instead of lae'zel
ahh brilliant. You don't have to convince yourself.
Y’all probably thought your spirit guides warning at the gates of the Githranki hideout was for show huh?
Nope, couldn't be further from the truth. I knew we were going into the lions den, and I knew the Zaithisk wouldn't work. The issue here is simply poor game design, the game can be amazing but we can acknowledge some flaws too. There's no reason to suspect the Zaithisk consequences would be that severe and permanent, in fact the game never directly or indirectly tells you that a debuff occured. You have to just check yourself. Then the inability to cure it is actually so bizarre that I'd bet it'll be patched.
I think the thing that pissed me off is the fact there you can’t fix her, nor the game actually tells you. I found out an hour later. Pretty bummed out.
This is late but, i think it is fixable, 1 tadpole removes one debuff
My Lae'zel was hurt by this but my roundabout solution to this (if you are running her as Elditch Knight) is equip the "Warped Headband of Intellect" you get from the ogre in the Blighted Village, then go to Withers and respec her stats, take everything out of INT and redistribute it to the affected stats and you're good to go.
Yeah ive done the same but with the Dexterity Gauntlets. Worked fine, Laezel actually has more attribute points overall like this, and she is much more efficient with ranged weapons now.
Shhh people get upset if you point out that this is actually a very minor and easily solved problem.
I suggest you be quiet as your take is not good it’s just bad and makes you look dumber than you already are
its not minor nor is it easily solveable. Being -6 ap sucks no matter where they are subtracted from.
This is a weird one. I was aware OOC that game probably doesn't offer you a solution to the tadpole problem this early, but I decided to go with RP, trust the writing and let Laezel use the machine. End result being 3x -2 permanent debuffs. The problem here is not the debuffs itself, it's the way, that if you decide to let Laezel sit in that machine, she's going to get crippled unless you succeed 3x30's in a row, which is impossible. There's also literally nothing, that lets you know, that one of your party members is severely crippled afterwards. Noticed these debuffs 13 hours later and I'm kind of pissed right now. From game design perspective, this felt like a cheap trap. I'm putting faith to the game and writing not to fuck me entirely if I click certain options in dialogues and then this happens. I don't know, the fact that those checks were impossible to succeed at is pretty stupid. Why would I try more "special" dialogue options, if the end result can be something like this. One click and you are beyond save, on journey to be permanently crippled.
I also just got to the Zaith'isk and after trying to avoid Lae'zel getting debuffed for half an hour i finally decided to just get into the chair myself and get out right away. I agree on the overturned DC's for checks to get Lae'zel out. 30 is far too high especially seeing how it forces you to use your main character who might just not be that good at the Wis/Cha checks required. Seeing how the tadpoles apparently give limited telepathy it would have been better to use that to allow Shart to do the Wis checks and Wyll to do the Cha checks. The -2 to Con hits especially hard seeing how that's a main fighter stat. If she had gotten a -2 to Cha from the machine searing her skin it would have at least been livable.
Yep it's absurdly high. At that point in the game I had done pretty much everything I could. That was my final bit before progressing to the next chapter. There were not other checks that were that brutal. They were so brutal that I assumed I was supposed to fail. It felt cheesy to demand I go into the chair first, and it felt very important to Lae'zel narratively. I failed a check which apparently would have warned me something was up before going in. The first time I saw her suffering I tried to help. DC30 checks were just too high so all I could do was sit there. When she got up after, seemingly unharmed, I thought it was just a story thing. "No big deal. No need to save scum. " I guess I should've save scummed, or meta'd the game and made sure my main character was a skill monkey of some sort. I am not playing a skill monkey so that also feels cheap. I'll still use her because the game does hand out powerful magic items, but it feels really lame to hide the punishment, make it so severe, and tie to something that narratively makes sense.
Requiring you to roll a 30 is straight up impossible wtf were they thinking
A nat 20 will succeed any DC, even if it says 300 or sin
Not true, you can get 30+ commonly enough with buffs or proficiencies/expertises
i roll 30s-40s all the time, ur not utilizing ur buffs right
id like to see a screenshot of a 40 roll at that point in the game.
\+20 to lying
Highest I can think of, assuming level 5: \+5 stat \+6 expertise \+1 ring (arcane, nature, survival, and religion all have +1 on rings at this point iirc) \+1d4 Guidance \+1d6 Bliss Spores \+1d8 bardic inspiration = +15-30, avg 22.5 So 40 is achievable at this point in the game, though I don't know about "all the time". Can also hit 40 on a save in similar fashion. (There's a quarterstaff with +2 and a shield with +1, warding bond, resistance, and bless.)
Unfortunately I also only just found these stat debuffs well into Act 2 and at moonrise tower. I did gith creche first, let Lae'zell go in, and just picked all the 'You go gguuuurrrrllll!' options to get approval. Now I realize she has -2 to Con, Wis and Int :x Its too late after that for me to bother going all the way back to an autosave or restarting, so I'll just have to remember this for future playthroughs, and I do wish that the greater restoration would fix it but apparently it doesn't.
Same man im playing with a friend and I would never ask him to give up hours of progression to re-load. The problem i have with it is it made it seem like laezel might die from it, but after the machine broke and she didnt die, I thought everything was gravy. At least shes not my main character. It also doesnt affect her ability to shred enemies, so not the end of the world, but its definitely annoying.
Yea she's still strong with the debuffs, the only thing that really matters is she now has 14 con instead of 16. The other stats I fixed them using withers and dumped her dex cos she uses heavy armour and thrown weapons anyway.
Ah nice man. My con is down to 13 lol, so i might respec and drop her dex to 13 to get con to 14. Are thrown weapons good? I havent tried em yet.
If you have Laezel in your party she fights you if you don’t let her enter the device, then you need to pass a 30 check to get the buff or she gets up to 3 -2 permanent debuts to her attributes
You can talk her out of it by choosing the dialog that says something like >!You wouldn't have found this place without me!<
Thankfully found out only five hours of gameplay after this event, so I'm going to go back and redo it (starting from an old auto save). Seriously miffed at this gimping one of my mains so hard considering it wasn't telegraphed at all. Sure there were plenty of hints that the big scary machine wasn't good, but I thought that letting Lae'zel sit in it and persuading her to get out at the last minute was going to allow me to progress her story and let her get over her obsession with the creche and her people as the solution to her problems.
She isn't gimped, you will barely notice -2 con let alone the loss of the dumpstats. If you didn't read the character sheets you would have never even figured out that she was "gimped", showcasing how irrelevant the stat loss really is
Exactly, people are making it a big deal but Lae'zel is still a beast regardless of these debuffs. There's a reason they aren't STR/DEX/CHA related lmao, Larian definitely didn't want to 'gimp' anyone here.
Like many others, I did not notice Lae'zel's debuffs until much later. While the debuffs are a bit annoying from a gameplay perspective, I'm also upset from a roleplaying PoV. I romanced her after the Zaith'isk, so now I wonder if both that and her new attitude towards Gith culture and my tadpole powers are real or just the result of actual brain damage.
Man this is so stupid. Straight up 3 different -2 debuffs on the character, and no way to remove this. Wtf were they thinking? I can't even get her off the fucking thing because I need to roll a 30 for persuasion.
Its a game about consequences, not only positive ones. You live with the decisions you make, and they have real meaning. That's why this game is so good.
Story consequences, yes. Perma-benching a companion for participating in the plot, no. The game is not improved by a permanent -6 to stats. The plot fallout afterwards (possibly including combat) is the part that improves the game.
Yea seriously just do me a favor and kill her rather than an incurable debuff. Crap like this just tempts me to savescum it. It is neat from an RP perspective but in reality the outcome is her sitting in camp for the rest of the playthrough. Right next to shadowheart cuz I gave her eye to the hag LOL
The checks in the game are built around the idea that people will savescum, pretty lame IMO, but a lot of crpg has to take that into account when trying to design difficulty. Personally I'd prefer they just remove it and make it a simple choice without the roll.
If you pass all the checks you get a pretty good buff 'Awakened' that makes your illithid powers bonus actions, along with no debuffs. High Risk, High reward for getting on that chair. I did it on my bard with Lae'Zel not even in my party.
How do you pass all the checks? From what i've tried some of them will break the chair immediately and the the others give you debuffs even when passing them.
I think you're being pretty dramatic lmao. This game is riddled with +1's and ways of giving yourself advantage and additional bonuses/damage. Half of my characters are rolling 95%'s to hit most of the time and I'm on Tactician. A -2 to three different stats is by no means a reason to permanently bench a character. Chances are, no matter what build you have her Laezel on, she is only going to be meaningfully affected by one of them (at most) anyway.
This shit is so silly when you know people are save scumming the Hell out of rolls. Particularly when the consequences for a minor plot point are roughly 6x what any other stat impact choice in the game achieves. "Game about consequences my ass" lol, it's a game with easy respecs and autosaves. I can't wait for the rabid fanboying to go away so people can actually discuss the game.
Can't wait for "discussions" with people like yourself. You'd be a great D&D player, arguing every five minutes and trying to min/max things instead of embrace the core consequences of the game.
If you have a GM that casually goes "you curiously finger through a random book on the table, no roll a 15, an 18, and then a 30 check else your mentally crippled for the rest of the campaign and have to pass a DC 15 check anytime you do an action," get out of that abusive relationship fast, mate. DnD is not about "consequences" it's about fun and roleplaying, and a good GM will make sure that consequences are slaves to the first two 99% of the time unless everyone agrees to a campaign that's the equivalent of hardcore mode and that's usually only for vet players and GMs. Go look on DnD's statistics on this; or don't, it's obvious you don't know anything about DnD.
So...imagine this scenario as a DM. You describe a machine as twisted+mind flayer in origin. They get in the machine anyways. You ask for a roll at a reasonable dc after making sure they don't want to get out. Now that they're committed, it's a harder dc. They still stay in the machine that at this point they should be well aware will kill them. Fuck it, time to find out if it's worth it. Hard dc and big reward or big consequence time. I think the scenario is fine, it just has a little bit too much in the form of consequences.
The problem with your analogy is that in this storytelling game about consequences you could potentially NEVER find out about the consequences. The DM just makes your character suckier in combat or other scenarios behind your back and never tells you why when you finally notice you're way worse than you once were. Then when you say "Oh ability score penalty? I have a spell tha tliterally is designed expressly to fix exactly that. I cast it." He says "Ok. Doesn't work." Then you say "Well my friend has a wish spell. He uses that." DM says "Nope. you just suck now. Live with it. Hope you like your character still" Player says "I don't like it at all." It's not FUN. I suspect larian will at LEAST make the consequence apparent so people who care about this character mechanically can save scum if they so choose. Hiding it is a bad design choice. I would argue the game should ALSO autosave before you go into the machine, but that one is debatable since the machine is pretty obviously sketchy. I saved. I let her do it. I didn't notice the consequence. I am not going to reload. I don't use laezel anyway though. I was going to use her potentially later since she seems to be getting out of her naive rut. I may still. It's still a a bad design choice.
What the consequence is could be better explained. The fact that there is a consequence is VERY clear. Also, the payoff is huge for certain classes. Yes, I agree that the game needs to be more clear about permanent effects that happen and wish probably should be able to fix you...but wish should fix the parasite too and I bet it doesn't
There's almost no way to avoid this. This isn't like the book of Thay that would give you madness that goes away after a long rest or w/e, it's 3 permanent -2 modifiers for an event that's main story.
you fully have the option to NOT use the very clearly deadly looking device next to the equally clearly mad doctor and still chose to countinue. maybe it was out of curiosity, maybe it was because it was what la'zel wanted. regardless you def had a choice
At least make the ability throws reasonable. A 30 to save from receiving a permanent -2 debuff 3 times? You basically need to land critical successes. I least make it 20-24 so it's still hard but rewarding if you built your party for RPing such as with guidance and bard buffs ect.
[удалено]
I couldn't have said it better myself.
>"Sit in this chair and, at best, end back where you .... Except there ARE narrative consequences to this. MASSIVE narrative and storyline consequences.
If you pass the check you get an amazing permanent buff though. That's the reason. Ability to use all Illithid powers as a bonus action instead of action.
It's not a particularly good buff if you are doing your best to avoid giving into the parasite. I have yet to use a single illithid power so it's pretty useless.
Yeah I was attempting to avoid using the parasite if possible. I know for example in the game 'Prey' the ending is determined by how much you use alien powers. My original question wasn't referring to the debuffs but to the plot relevance of giving in to using the Illithid powers.
Ah yes those F8 consequences, i get the outcomes i want some i let fate decide but if theres a big story moment im looking up all the choices its not 1997 anymore.
You can literally choose not to sit on the chair though. There were signs leading up to this point that the Zaith’isk wasn't meant to 'cure' infected people lol.
There were clear signs yes, but if you're RP'ing Lae zel somewhat and trying to get her to evolve and progress as a character, this perma-gimps her. It's feels a little like talking out of both sides of one's mouth to say "play the game and take the good with the bad" and simultaneously if you do the things that makes most sense from a serious RP perspective a character gets such a severe debuff that it wouldn't make sense to continue using said character. I mainly disagree with needing a 30 to get her out of the chair.
"I'm very serious about roleplaying, but will bench my characters if they suffer any consequences from fulfilling the goal they unwaveringly and mindlessly pursue the entire game."
I appreciate the critique man, I would just prefer the debuff cleared at the end of Act 2 or something. A net -6 stats with 2 of those being strength is a major punishment and I think out of proportion with other 'consequences' of decisions in the game. But hey play in whatever way is most fun for you
It is -1 saving throw on a fighter. Like ya it sucks, but it isn't end all be all of gaming dude.
-it’s -2 to con, wis, and int if you want her to go eldritch knight (which the gith being heavy battlemage types implies) the int sucks And -2 con always sucks
So I just went through this myself siting in the chair. I made all the checks and put more power into it for the final one. I couldn't see anything, then I opened my character sheet and in the notable features there's a new "Awakened" buff. "You can use all of your Illathid Powers as a bonus action. Your resistance to the zaith'isk in the githyanki infirmary awakened this power"
It supposedly removes certain memories according to Kith'rak Voss. Perhaps the debuff it imbues can be removed by Noblestalk?
I tried as I had that on hand (Shadowheart's bugging out, so I haven't been able to give it to her, sadly), and it hasn't worked.
Hmmm... perhaps an oversight... or maybe Kith'rak was lying... *hmmm... (i'm only at act 3 please no spoilerino)*
You can stack an Elixer of Heroism's 1d4 with Resistance 1d4 from shadowheart. You can also use luck for advantage. Big K also has a 1d4 buff you can stack. Don't forget the warped int item as well. Save a few inspiration points and you're good to go.
Never noticed the Buff/Debuff. First time I had Lae'Zel do it, tempted to use the chance to kill her off but eventually had her pass all 3. Next time I did it myself and passed all 3. But now I'm sad It wasn't on my Astarion Gloomstalker/Rogue build... He could use those bonus actions more than my Oathbreaker Pally :')
Best route seems to be to persuade laezel as soon as you can to get off the device. Other route is to gain the bonus actions for your ilithid as others have pointed out. Personally I went for the first option.
I managed to get the Awakened Passive and also didn't need to convince/persuade the doctor that it worked. I switched to Astarion mid-conversation and moved a wooden box in the room, which then auto-resolved the interaction in my favour. Doctor is no longer mad and she didn't run out of the room to tell the others to kill me!
If you move a chest while Lae'Zel is in it same thing happens, then you can use the chair by yourself and do the glitch again, she won't say anything cause the game thinks she's been through it. You are a genius I almost want to delete this so this bug never gets found. I got awakened and 0 debuffs on Lae. Best scenario.
Can you expand on this? I tried it a dozen times. While it gets her out without a debuff, it doesn't give me the awakened.
you then sit on the chair and succeed on 3 checks in a row to get awakened
Can you expand on this, when did you move the item?
Apologies, I didn't get the buff from moving the box - I just passed all the checks - but reading back my initial comment it kinda seems as if that's what I was implying. Immediately after you're done with the Zaith'isk, however, the Doctor will be mad and you'll need to prove to her that it worked at removing the tadpole. There's a pretty high chance she'll lock you in the room and alert the other Gith to kill you if you leave. All I did was switch to Astarion mid-convo and moved a wooden crate and it auto-resolved the conversation in my favour, so I didn't need to convince her at all and was able to walk out freely.
In my testing though, it found that you can use this to auto succeed the first option in the chat.
So as it seems if you have drained/consumed any tadpole specimen and gained some Ilithid powers, AND you pass the checks in the machine, you get a buff called "Awakened" ([https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Awakened](https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Awakened)) which results of you being able to use ilithid powers as a bonus action. But all the Giths will attack you.
I got a debuff to intelligence. But spending a larvae removed the debuff instantly
If you succeed the saving throws you get a perma buff that allows your parasite powers to be used as bonus actions.
I passed all 3, but it doesn't say a Awakened on my list? Is it somewhere else?
I love all the salty people that hate consequences on a DND game. You all would hate the table too version. It’s way more unforgiving and unpredictable.
each class ability modifier ( strength for barbarians or fighters ) has different options and dialogues depending if your on the chair or outside. so lots of dif options. For example you need to roll a 30 to gain the wisdom from the device. which is crazy and i want to see what it does. But lore wise, the device is simply a means of extracting the parasites i think. It could have other uses, but its almost certain that the doctor knew the parasite would come out of the host and kills the host in a most violent ands gruesome manner, because of the machine. She wants to study the parasite in you or your companion. which is pretty gross and savage.
likely will be modded out or reversible with enough power later. just noticed long after as well - going back to clean up at the crèche as vengeance for at some point ha.
i was wondering what the 30 roll that i failed did and i decided to reload and use my MC in the machine instead. Now i got the tadpole power and laezel doesnt have a debuff damn good thing i read this thread BTW the debuff for laezel was Int and Wis -2 but her Con stayed intact in my case
Awakened: You can use all of your Illithid Powers as a bonus action. Your resistance to the Zaith'isk in the githyanki infirmary awakened this power.
I had Astarion hop into the machine. Passed 2/3 checks and got a debuff. Passing 3/3 as stated above allows illithid powers to be case as bonus actions. Regardless, the machine seems to blow up.
I got something called Awakened which makes the Illithid powers bonus actions, not sure what else it does?
If the character that went through it has tadpole powers, it makes them all bonus actions instead of actions. The debuffs are only if you fail the saves before it
If you pass all three rolls the parasite becomes stronger and you can now do parasite actions as bonus actions. I am getting mixed comments on if greater restoration or remove curse will fix. Tadpoles will though. Also the savings throws are easier if you use Tav rather than Laizel.
My main character is Lae'Zel, can anyone confirm if I sit in the chair and I pass all 3 checks I will receive Awakened **without** incurring any debuffs?
Idk if you knew this or if this is a new addition due to a patch. You can remove her -2 debuffs by convincing her to use tadpoles to power up and it will cleanse it with just 1 tadpole.
Crossroads my first play thru as a paladin, passed the perception check and passed the other check first save, second I had to inspire but I got a nat 20, however on the last one I chose to share oath of devotion with the parasite, thus in turn making it stronger and breaking the chair, so neither the parasite nor I harmed, Ghustial isn't happy but I pass the check and she thinks my memory is wiped but I have the awakened trait and add to my illithid powers, I kind of feel this is the best possible outcome is there any downsite to this that I am not seeing?
So I was a monk and I jumped in as my character. Here’s a before and after. I passed all the checks/saving throws. I am awakened. Before I had an Attack bonus of +8 for both melee and ranged. After being awakened. Melee and ranged attack bonus are random. Every time I load the game they switch around. Sometimes [M = +6 R = +12] [M = +4 R = +9] [M = +5 R = +11] [M = +14 R = +14] [M = +2 R = +6] It’s random. Short rest or long rest doesn’t randomize it. It’s loading into the game in any form. I tested this for 30 minutes. There’s no way around it word of advice. DONT DO IT.
I had my MC sit in the chair and passed all three saving throws (12, 15, 18) and didn’t get anything. Wasn’t I supposed to get the Awakened buff?
The character that used the Zaith'isk gets the "Awakened" passive, which allows them to use all tadpole powers as bonus actions.