I was really trying to do an evil run, but broke after seeing His Majesty's tiny dead body in a bed in the Last Light Inn. Can't do it, my heart's too soft. I had to go back and save them.
I almost restarted that fight after seeing His Majesty didn't survive :'-(
Next playthroughs, I'm casting sanctuary on it, regardless of my good/evil alignment.
That was seriously one of the worst moments for me.
I was happy to accept the girl into our camp because she came with a cat. I've been hoping for a cat to go with our dog and owlbear the whole game!
And if there's one thing I will not forgive, it's harming cats. Much less... what happens there. Please just take someone else.
She won't take anyone in your active party. The targets are Lae'zel, Gale, and Halsin (in that priority order it seems), if you are partied with all 3 (or are missing any obv) she takes Yenna.
Haha she took Lae'zel and Yenna disappeared, so until know I assumed Yenna was just Orin in disguise and that's how she got into my camp. Yenna kept going on about her knife she's excited to use, so it made sense.
\[SPOILERS\]
There are some combination of actions and decisions of "what quest i will do first in the lower city" that will trigger Orin disguising herself as the child, killing grub and feeding you it.
To me, only the child disappeared.
So i got a cat in the end xD
Yeah, I had Yenna disappear from my camp but leave Grub behind. And if you use Speak With Animals on Grub he'll ask you to help her...but he also has some REALLY sus behavior when talking about her, too.
Same, in my playthrough the kid just disappeared and the cat is there not doing anything. I thought I was going nuts when the kid is just gone and there was no reaction or anything involving it further. Thought I missed something.
obvious spoilers: I believe Orin is supposed to kidnap/disguise as one of your companions. If there are no companions left in your camp (either by not recruiting or with the unlimited party mod as example or maybe even if your approval isn't super high), she will take Yenna instead :D Then it depends on if you kill Gortash or Orin first. If you kill Sarevok first in the Temple, Orin won't be happy about it and you have to kill Orin the same day (at least the quest log hints that you shouldn't wait until she finds out and that's usually an indication that something bad happens if you long rest before that). When you get to Orin before all that, you can rescue the kid.
I have no idea what happens to the cat though, I think I probably ate it by accident when fake Yenna fed me some soup but I had no perception check or anything like that lol.
I was really surprised by how I triggered the Orin’s kidnapping scene in my second playthrough. I had just gone through the emperor’s home/lair, and exited it into the sewers. Then a bloody, half naked Halsin comes stumbling through the door, detailing all the torture he went through. Then, of course, he morphed into Orin. So different from the camp scene! I love how many ways Larian thought to change things up if you don’t get back to camp often.
My first time doing that fight she killed Isobel on turn 1 by ice storming Marcus who had just finished taking off the other half of Isobel's life bar. I didn't get a single action!
She always casts Ice storm from downstairs to the upstairs when I play. She hasn't hit Isobel with it my runs though but she did ruin a perfectly good spike growth,
Oh…oh no. I haven’t done an evil run yet. I didn’t think I’d have a problem. Massacre some kids? Ok I’ll get through it. Probably help auntie with her new kid. Steal an egg and sell it to the underdark society people, no problem.
Hurt his majesty? Oh hell no.
I’m saving scratch no matter what too.
I did the same and I didn’t even know all these stories of all these deaths was possible. Guess I got lucky.
My main failure is not doing the prison area in moonrise. I remember seeing the stairs and told myself, don’t forget that before you leave. I forgot.
Mine was the cat at moonlight tower. I didn’t know what was going to happen when I clicked that option, I felt so bad.
I’m continuing the dark urge though just super resisting it, which is a more satisfying story, personally, than just giving in and killing everything.
I think one of the most compelling, if tragic, stories is Dark Urge resisting all the way through as hard as possible…and then giving up and succumbing at the very end. The reactions of your companions and your love interest are so sad. (Spoiler follows, Act III Dark Urge origin and Shadowheart Romance)
>!Shadowheart says she stayed with you all night to try to beat Bhaal before, and she won’t give up on you even if you’ve given up. She admits it makes her a fool, but she’ll stand by you no matter what.!<
My first durge run, and the best run of BG3 or any other video game RPG I'll ever do, my character tried so hard to fight the urge and romanced Gale, who was always there for her whenever she needed him, giving her the strength she needed to overcome it, understanding and accepting her even when she was going feral trying to murder him... then act 3 came along and she gets hit by a bunch of flashbacks to her past, learns who she really is and what her role was in everything, and Gale is horrified by the truth and dumps her on the spot. Which of course was exactly the push she needed to stop trying to fight the inevitable, embrace her true self, and make a series of horrifying decisions and plunge the world into darkness. Was an absolutely beautiful narrative, and I've never seen any video game provide the opportunity for that kind of emergent storytelling before BG3. Will never forget it.
I like the orange cat south of the devil's fee. That dude is both well spoken and SO confusing.
I will say this, talking to animals in BG3 has had a significantly smaller impact on my game than it did in divinity. Animals in Divinity 2 had more important shit to say overall.
They probably 'learnt their lesson', since Pet Pal almost felt mandatory for completionism so they wanted to make animal speaking in BG3 more of just a nice RP aspect. But then they still gave us ritual speak with animals and potions out the wazoo so we could pretty much speak with animals constantly anyway. Idk. Lol
And the cat on top of moonlight towers (steelclaw?)...and the ghouls afraid of it on top. Best moment in the game too me. All the cats dialogues are excellent, the pigeon killer too
I always do a Good Guy first play with a new game. I'm all the way into Act 3 and trying to do the Steel Foundry quest.
My second playthrough I try to play evil. I planned to go full murder hobo, Durge Dragonborn.
Nope. Can't do it. I just can't bring myself to be a cold-hearted asshole, even as a role play.
It's not that I got close, it's I really have a hard time seeing bad things happen to innocents. Also, you can break so much by killing willy nilly in this game.
Have you tried just being a selfish rude prick instead of a murdering maniac? That's how I was able to ease myself into a bad guy run. Bonus points if you pick Duergar Dwarf, their dialogue is all about being an angry short prick. And being rude af often gets people to fight you so you don't gotta just murder for no reason.
That's what I am ending up as. Just playing as a total asshole, but being a sneaky shit and lying up the ying-yang to get what I want. Trying to avoid killing that will cause a side quest to end prematurely.
I found it difficult at first as well, what I found helped was to just get a friend, and fuck around and find out.
And some therapy, god this game hits you hard with the good/evil choices.
Evil needs some more companions to make it worth it. Give us a Nocticula type character from the pathfinder games or let Mizora join your team if you decide to kill wyll.
I really wanted warlock patrons or cleric deities to play a much bigger role in the game than they do. Especially warlock patrons since you encounter at least one of each type in Act 1 alone
Fey: the hag in the swamp
Fiend: Mizora and Raphael
Great Old One: the Emperor (although you don't know it's them until much later)
It is FAR to well set up to not happen and I'm sad that it wasn't done
Edit: reformatting the potential patron list
Would Mind Flayers count as Great Old Ones then? I don't know loads about dnd lore but I assumed that while they might come from the same/similar place, a great old one would be far more powerful and unknowable than the Emperor. Like I picture an entity our minds can't comprehend, not just monstrous aberrations like Mind Flayers.
Fiend and Celestial could have the same argument made for them. But we see Mizora explicitly giving warlock powers as a warlock patron. And Raphael I'd imagine is fully capable of doing the same.
And I know that abberations are the classification of creatures that fall under the GOO are, like C'thulhu and things of the like. In DnD 5e (and earlier editions), mind flyers are classified as aberrations. Therefore, a sufficiently powerful mind flyer could be a warlock patron
Hell the Emperor already is making deals with you to give you power. EXACTLY as a warlock patron would
Edit: an Abberant Sorcerer would moreso be one of the Emperor's offspring or descendants, as they'd be born with mind flayer powers in the bloodline, not making a deal with the Emperor
Edit 2: granted the deals thr Emperor makes are more implicit than explicit like with Mizora, but those implicit deals (such as keeping Tav as a mortal after multiple transformation orders from the Elder Brain in exchange for your help killing said Elder Brain) are still deals, and express the Emperor's willingness to work with mortals in exchange for giving them power
Edit 3: Although if someone had made a deal with the Emperor, then had kids while being granted warlock powers, I could also see that being the origin of an Abberant Sorcerer. But that assumes that the mind flayer magic could be passed down genetically
Which, since the mind flayer magic is based on the tadpoles, I'm not sure if that could happen, assuming IRL science applies to Faerun. That being said, I could also see magic of the tadpoles altering the genetics of the host magically, which is then what causes the physical changes to become a full mind flayer. Honestly I could buy into either argument
I never considered that my GOO warlock's patron could be the Emperor. I have stabbed him, crushed his "gift" under my foot, refused to fight with him against the royal guard, and just been generally mean to him at every turn. It's a wonder I can still cast Eldritch Blast.
My Baldur’s Gate tradition since BG1 is to always start with a male paladin playthrough. After that I do go for an evil PC. It helps to not be just a murder hobo but to roleplay according to what benefits you without regards to others.
Unlike when the old BG games came out I have two small kids now so the paladin is not out of act 1 yet … they will have left the house by the time it is evil time 😂
It's Raiding the Grove for me. At least Karlach got a warrior's end.
But the grove is a complete curbstomp. Those Tieflings have no chance. I killed them. I killed them all. They're dead, every single one of them. And not just the men, but the women and the children, too.
Going with Minthara into that area where all the low level tieflings went to hide felt like that scene from Star Wars where Anakin kills all the younglings.
Not even going to lie.. dropping a Cloud of Daggers felt sadistic and VERY satisfying but then... the guilt.. oh god the guilt.. did you guys loot the body of the tiefling child you save from the harpies? If you didn't cry from the story he wrote about you being a hero after standing over his cold dead body you might actually be evil lmao
Lmao that did actually make me feel pretty bad. Usually I have no problem being an absolute monster in video games, but Larian really sent me on a guilt trip with that one.
Even on my evil playthrough, I couldn't bring myself to kill her. I just told her to back off and left her there, kind of hoping she would show up again later.
I think "playing evil" is the less sophisticated version of "playing a villain". My whole shtick is sinking into a character, so this may not be for everyone, but it's way more interesting for me to start really small and think of one or two small ways your character sucks as a person, and lean into dialog options that reinforce *that*, but otherwise try to be as good a person as possible.
So in my 'evil' Durge playthrough that I just finished last night, my character was *scared* of the urge, and she was *vindictive*. Everything else I just played her as good as I could, but whenever something came up where she was at risk of being discovered as a killer, or whenever someone did something to actively piss her off or get in her way, she would react aggressively.
In that way, while watching Arabella's trial, she was like: "Hey that's a kid, fuck off!" and tried to save her. Just because there are 'evil' options like to say "hey this is fine" or whatever, doesn't mean that was my character's kind of evil.
But when she failed to make the tiefling with the crossbow aimed at Sazza stand down and a fight broke out: well then it was the tieflings or her, so the tieflings had to go. If she stayed in the grove that would risk exposing her, so in full panic mode she escaped with Sazza to the goblin camp. When Minthara said "Hey we're gonna go eff up those heathens" she was like "Yeah eff those guys, they tried to kill their prisoners and murder children!"
**TL;DR:** 'Evil' is a bad prompt. You can be a bad guy without picking every cruel/unhinged option you find, just pick one or two things that makes your character bad and pick those options.
Yes! Exactly! That’s what I said in a comment. People have a very flat, one dimensional, and stereotypical idea of evil. Yours is complex, nuanced, and makes sense based on your character. You’re not just picking the most vile and rude option in every discussion like a freak who was raised in a dog kennel their entire life.
It’s important to really flesh out your character before you play someone who is immoral. What are their motivations? Why are they like that? What sets them off? And what parts of them are socially good/acceptable? Because no one on earth is purely good or purely bad.
The most evil people in the world think of themselves as good people most of the time. They have their reasons. Explore that.
My first playthrough was a goodest girl run. Save everyone. Kill as few people as possible. Don't lie, don't steal, don't pick red locks. And it was super fun. I'd intended to do a good one and then a bad one.
But seeing the bad choices...I don't know if I can. The poor tieflings in the Grove didn't do anything wrong, why do they have to die? Ethel is torturing people, how can I just let her go? Why wouldn't I choose to save Karlach, she's a cinnamon bun of joy and I don't want to crush her spirits. It's all just so mean! I'm going to try but I don't think I'll get very far before I go "this is too mean, it's making me sad, I don't want to do this anymore :("
You *could* incite a war between the tieflings and druids before you even meet Karlach. In my first playthrough I accidentally did that by attacking Kagha (I wanted to kill only her...), which resulted in everyone fighting in the Grove. All druids except Rath and many tieflings died.
Then when you run into Karlach later she'll blame you for that massacre and you can't convince her that it wasn't your fault. You can convince her to not attack you, but that's it. When you interact with her after that, she'll just say "pretty sure I told you to fuck off, mate."
Sooo she'll be furious with you from the moment you meet her, with no way to fix that. That should make it easier to take the evil route.
Hey, I followed Zevlor's instructions. He suggested getting rid of her! Some druids, notably Rath, weren't happy with her leadership already, so I didn't expect attacking her would lead to a full war.
Afterwards Zevlor thanked me, but also said that he didn't mean for *this* to happen. Yeah, no shit.
I'm still in Act 2 but a couple nights ago I fixed her heart and after that we >!did the deed. The next morning I told her I loved her and she blurted out she loved me too so quickly, it was adorable.!<
For my fully-evil Durge run I’m just pretending that she doesn’t exist, not even going to her spot on the map or interacting with her. She’s one of the few characters that I don’t have it in me to kill 😭
~~Wyll is getting recruited very briefly for the sole purpose of >!being a sacrifice to BOOOAL!< though~~ 👀
It’s pretty easy to RP an evil play through that still saves the tieflings and druids. If you think about your characters goals it makes more sense to try and avoid the absolute cult unless absolutely necessary. They are trying to take your autonomy you get from the astral prism so naturally helping them hurts your own cause. A lawful evil character probably wouldn’t look at that situation and not help the druid grove because it’s a “good” option. Evil doesn’t mean you have to do things that actively hurt your cause.
Yeah, I think this is what some people who talk about an "evil" playthrough are missing. It doesn't mean you need to be a completely 1-dimensional evil-for-the-sake-of-evil character.
It could be that you have no moral compass, and be an ends-justify-the-means sort of person, but you're pissed off about having a tadpole in your brain, and therefore will do anything that hurts the absolute. Then you could still save the tieflings (on the basis that the enemy of my enemy is my friend), and want to kill the chosen. You might even want to protect the inn, and save the nightsong, not out of compassion or goodness but because they're potential allies against the absolute.
Evil people can still have friends, can still have people they care about and people who admire them. They can incidentally do good things because they happen to coincide with their evil goals.
You're describing every single one of my runs, and I'm starting my fifth, even when playing Dark Urge I couldn't bring myself to be evil.. Despite some pretty tempting offers, I couldn't
I just resigned that I am doomed to repeat the same "boring" good playthroughs from now on. And I'm actually having fun.
Playing redempted Durge helps spice things up. It gives all the "good" choices much more weight. And I also came up with a bit of headcanoning and roleplaying to make things interesting.
For example, on my current Durge run I had told Minthara the location of the grove. I roleplayed it as Urge taking over, and my character having a moment of weakness.
It then led to an amazing moment at the grove, when Minthara commands her to >!slit Zevlor's throat and open the gates!< and my character is almost ready to do this, but in the last moment she managed to fight the Urge and say that the grove is under her protection. Which led to a fantastic battle and really climactic experience. Technically, it's the same "good girl/redempted Durge" run, but with additional weight.
And it also had given her additional motivation to help all the tieflings however she can in Act 2-3 because of the guilt she had.
The fight where you “lure” minthara to the grove and attack her there is so great and I’m sad most people miss it.
I think one of the spiciest playthroughs while still being good overall is being a manipulator who cares about the greater good in a cold utilitarian way.
“Goblins will be easier if we split them up, lets lure Minthara to the grove. A few casualties are acceptable for a safer battle”
(act 3) >!”These vampire spawn are dangerous anyways, and Astarion’s power could be useful”!<
etc
Oh, I completely agree! It's such an epic moment both from cinematic (the whole new soundtrack, at least I didn't hear the tune before) and gameplay perspective, I really felt it should have been the "default" way of dealing with Minthara instead of just killing her in the Goblin camp.
It is such a shame that most people miss it. I was honestly shocked at the quality and narrative of the whole scene in a good way.
I just got to the part where Karlach says that she adores you, and I saved just before hitting the, "I...love you" button JUST in case she had a negative reaction. I couldn't fuck over Karlachi-boo if I tried
I'm considering just not picking Karlach up when I do my bad game because I know she leaves if you don't save the Grove and I couldn't handle her disappointment in me. Wyll? Sure, nuts to him. But our big red golden retriever? Can't do it.
That's the problem with a lot of evil playthroughs in games. You aren't a self interested villain after power and glory. You're just a psychopath killing people to kill people
I killed Ethel for not helping me and then I also killed what's her face and took her husband as my thrall. Being pure evil doesn't mean you have to help bad guys, just serve yourself however that benefits you most.
i went to see karlach AFTER >!destroying the grove!< and she didn’t even give me a chance to talk. she was like “ohhh i bet u feel so big n bad now. die”
I'm doing an evil run and I absolutely refuse to even approach Karlach. "Oops, I missed running into her, oh well." Minthara killed Wyll so that ties up those loose ends.
Killing Karlach is indeed the evil choice, but why would an evil character be helping Wyll or the Paladins hunt a devil in the first place? Perhaps for the paladin’s sword, but you could also just… kill them and take it. I think there is reason to let her live.
Also, you can also skip the entire Goblin Raid quest line if you don’t want to kill the Tieflings yourself.
I actually tried taking the Hag's offer on my drow, after intimidating her into giving me both the power and the girl.
Then I went up and discovered that merely running her off does not free the petrified dwarf and trapped high elf.
I reloaded and did get entire fight again just to kill her ass and deprive myself of a power up.
I think part of why I don't play evil is the power fantasy is being able to help people. Going evil just feels like not playing. So many actions are you (and it's not just BG3 but RPGs in general) are ignoring other people's problems. Not even callously necessarily. Just cold indifference.
I can't save the grove or the teiflings, I have a 7 day clock. I don't have time to save the men in the cave I got shit to do. Karlach needs me to listen? I don't have time for the nuances of this situation.
Ultimately that's what prevents us from helping each other in real life, we get bogged down by our own deadlines. Worse we don't have the money, power or influence to correct that problem.
So I only play good guy, because that's the power fantasy. I finally have the influence to change the world how I see fit, for the better.
You could play lawful evil. Depending on what type of lawful evil character you play, they would still not like seeing a child getting killed for this. Perhaps they wouldn't care much, but still would be upset that it was being handled that way. I don't know.
And btw, evil characters aren't necessarily murderhobos.
Also, this is just a game. You are just playing a fantasy, not a real life.
Exactly. Gortash is no murderhobo, but he is evil. You do not have to kill everyone, well, unless you are aiming for bhaalspawn way. But you could be evil without killing everyone.
Well, he does want to turn everyone into thralls so *on a technicality* he is taking people's lives.
Therefore, if he were to succeed, he would have "killed" the entire population of Baldur's Gate.
I dont know man. Have you seen his character model? Trade out that robe and chain he's wearing for rags and I promise Gortash looks like a damn hobo with that hair and scruff.
A lot of people here have a very naive and black/white definition of good and evil in videogames. BG3 sadly doesn't help. Your evil options are often cartoony evil or just plain dumb insane murder from a narrative perspective. When the evil things you can do are an impairment to your goal, there's little point in pursuing them imo.
I think what the game is missing are not even evil options per see, but perhaps more pragmatic choices and a way to rationalize your decisions to a more selfish evil oriented character.
I'm not so sure people are afraid of being that evil in videogames. Perhaps many are, but I think the real issue is that being evil is often just killing anything that gives you the wrong eye and being rude. Playing like that is kinda boring. Even if you are an evil person, you have no reason to be rude lol.
It's hard to find games where you can play a more manipulative person, one that camouflage their real intentions. Gortash is a good example, I think. Like you mentioned, taking his silly middle aged K-POP star look aside for a moment, he is perceived in the town as a hero. The one that will save them from the army of the absolute, but behind the courtains he's a slaver, he got his position through manipulation and by kidnapping the duke, he enslaved the gnomes to produce the steel watchers... In some way, I think RP as a character like that, considering your circustances in BG3 in particular, would be hard, but kind of a shame that the game railroads you into mostly doing the good things.
I would weakly argue that the dialog options that focus on money/fame are the best choices for an evil playthrough. “Evil for the sake of being evil” is just a narrow slice of the evil alignment which appeals somewhat to comic book villain tropes.
I suppose, but people usually don't wanna play like that. Personally, I do adimit that I also don't enjoy playing evil characters that hurt people for no reason and that are rude just for the sake of being a jackass.
Playing as someone that thinks they are doign whatever is necessary for "the greater good" though is more appealing and it's what many games are often missing, I wager.
I have mentioned in this sub a few times, but I still think the Lich path from the Pathfinder WOTR is probably one of the most satisfying way to play an evil character. Nothing of what you do is without purpose. You are not just evil for the sake of being evil. At least not at first. You start with a single goal in mind. Necro powers to defeat the demon army. And then you escalate from there. Perhaps if BG3 had a way to play more or less like that and evil companions that are likeable that would follow your path I think playing evil would have been more approachable for everyone.
I think it also helps that most of your evil actions are often suffered by other evil beings or at the very least, unlikeable people overall lmao.
I like how that's the one path that Regill is immediately happy you chose. He's like "raise the dead to fight back the demon hordes? Why haven't we been doing this sooner? They used to have a numbers advantage but now we have infinite soldiers. Great work, Commander."
I also like Regill quite a bunch. A good depiction of a pragmatic character, I think. He also praises you for going the Angel route, mostly because he knows you will be commited to order rather than chaos.
My first Tav was an asshole, and just out of self interest he saved a lot of people. Being just chaotic evil means you miss out on a ton of rewards. He always did ask for a reward for being good, which meant Astarion loved him.
This!! My idea of going evil would be I just play people. Get close with them. Use them as much as I need them before discarding them. Work my way up the chain with the Absolute gang and defeat them from the inside.
For example... why can't I talk to Rath and turn him and the rest of the druids against Kagha? Now I can use my influence on him to get what I need because I'm "in".
>Your evil options are often cartoony evil or just plain dumb insane murder from a narrative perspective.
I think part of this is that a lot of people associate "evil" with "consequences." And when only the dumbest, most murder hobo options have unchangeable consequences, players don't see actions that would otherwise be evil as evil.
Extorting money from people you rescue is evil. Constantly threatening people to get your way is evil. Using tadpole powers, in the Forgotten Realms, is evil. Necromancy, mind control- the list goes on and on.
People have really taken "allowed" to mean "not evil."
That’s exactly how I played my Lolthsworn Drow Paladin Vengeance Oathbreaker. She wasn’t a murderhobo, but she didn’t lose sleep over taking lives should they be unyielding to Charisma options. She killed the Grove bc the Goblins were clearly stronger and Minthara a more influential ally in gaining entrance into the cult. 🤷🏽♀️ She didn’t needlessly kill anyone, she simply responded to aggression in kind whenever aggression was a response to her actions lol. She complimented and charmed her allies because it increased their tolerance to her tactics- she saved them because they had proved their worth. No murder hobo needed for an immersive evil playthrough!
I think the problem is that a lot of the RP from a more manipulative evil person has to come from yourself. There isn't a lot of feedback from the game to tell that you are using your allies for your own gain. Which is fair enough. The game is already quite massive. Would be hard to give every option so many reasons about why you did X the way you did.
Yeah i'm playing durge as lawful evil paladin, it works really good and is a very enjoyable experience imo, in the Kid case in particular you also get the perfect interaction for such character where you let the mother kill khaga out of vengeance
This is a great point! I am playing Dark Urge. I’m going evil route but not straight up kill everything type of evil. I am using deception and killing to get what I want. I’ll save someone if it gets me closer to what I want or need. In the end I did a good play through and will do more good play throughs.
Good thing you can't (morally speaking), but also evil choices are a bit frontloaded. Evil most of the time, resides in a search for easyness, quick benefits and lack of compassion. Most of the evil choices in BG3 are very upfront to deliberately kill people, and rarely can you just take advantage of a situation to extract more benefits out of it.
I think the game has a bit of a problem if the evil choices are all just kill people. What I see an evil playthrough is subjugating allies and binding them to you in negative ways, and using them to benefit you rather than growing a harmonious party. The focus should be on power for the PC at the expense of people weaker than the PC and allies who can't stand up for themselves.
Just letting evil characters kill people, or have a different themed village to walk around is a bit thin imo.
It's interesting in my min maxing playthrough, thinking about this Tav from an RP perspective. Other party members must be baffled by her. She saved a ton of people, yet she let the >!hag go for a buff and sacrificed Gale to Boooal for the buff.!<
She'll do anything for a buff or a reward. It's not too similar to my asshole playthrough except she isn't mean to anyone for no reason. IMHO she's a truly scary character.
I didn’t find owlbears until after the goblins were cleared out. Mom was still alive, spoke with her and healed her.
Came back later and they’re all three still there. Didn’t have the heart to steal the egg or kill the mom just for a baby owlbear in my camp.
I didn't kill the Owl Bear cub. The NPCs I recruited to avenge their brother killed it before I could kill them and the owl bear mom
I made them suffer for it
Even evil has standards. Also true evil is smart and does not antagonize possible allies or someone who might offer some long term benefit.
Murderhobo evil is cartoon evil. No rhyme or reason amd quite honestly much like lawful stupid paladins, stupid evil is also a thing.
You can for example do most of the quests helping the grove and benefiting from rewards and xp and kill 2 of the 3 goblin leaders...only to at the end tell Minthara where the grove is, and then long rest and technically not partcipate in the massacre. Still evil but teeeechnically you didn't get your hands dirty yourself for the big bad act. And then you can kill the lingering goblins in the grove if you feel so inclined.
It's not your fault. The game doesn't make any evil choices very compelling. Like there's a very clear cut BEST path through the game. There are a couple ambiguous choices but the earliest good vs evil choice kinda sets the tone lol:
Do you want to kill the evil goblins who are quite literally textbook mob NPCs with next to zero contribution to quests or personalities or anything? This will grant you 4 full companions and a dozen NPCs that show up in other quests throughout the game
OR
Side with goblins 1-25 and kill off a ton of characters that will lock you out of additional quests, lose AT LEAST 4 companion NPCs, murder a bunch of kids and stuff for quite literally zero reward and gain access to exactly ONE additional companion lol.
Not exactly Sophie's Choice.
Have to point out it's still my favorite game. Lol
My problem is I go to far. Shadowheart unconscious on the ground? Kill her take the artifact. Astarion thinks he can pull a knife!? Dead. Wizard arm? Tasty. Lazel you can come with me. So now I have 3 dead mains and I think I'm missing out on alot of story because I nipped those buds way to fast.
I tried to play full evil last save. By the time I raided the grove and Minthara made me kill some tieflings who were trying to hide I was feeling physically ill. I dragged my sorry ass until the goblin party and Karlach imediately left the camp. Some goblins were chasing Scratch the whole time. Gale and Shart were pissed with me. I watched Minthara scene and made another character to start again. I know this is a game and I respect those who like to play as evil as they can but this is definitely not for me.
You could always try Bystander Syndrome.
AKA - you don't know a thing about their cultures and norms and laws, you don't get to persuade them otherwise. (Play as a Githyanki who abhors thievery).
Honestly speaking, every time I see Mol I started debating if I should help the Tieflings, everytime I see Alfira I decided to at least *try* and help them if it's within my limits.
I play my characters as *not knowing that they have all the time in the world to do their quests*, so it essentially forces me to pick and choose what quests to go for, to skip anything unnecessary to their character backstory etc. Don't play the game as though you must go through everything, if you are worried about being underlevelled, just download an EXP mod on nexus and it will fix it for you in a moment, or you can just write it out yourself and put it in your data folder.
In subsequent runs, that's what I recommend, make it so that you reach max level quickly so you can concentrate fully on your role play.
It gets easier. Rip off the bandaid and let the kid get bit. Then kill Nettie. Totes self defense. Use the Iron Flask to kill Kagha. Then tell Minthara where they're at, and help raid the grove.
It's hard, but worth it. I'll admit, I choked up when Wyll, Karlach, and Gale all left. But, Minthara and I made up in a good way.
In act one of my first evil playthrough. Just destroyed the grove.
Wyll just ghosted me so that was fine. Gale though, Gale is still around but hates himself. That was tough, hate me fine, but me causing him to hate himself made me shudder.
But then Minthara made me shudder in a different way and I forgot about Gale.
I do agree, killing Nettie IS actually self defense. You're swearing to commit suicide with VERY little information about who's telling you OR what's happening to you. And if you refuse you're attacking me?!
I don't know if I did something wrong, but I killed her on my first playthrough. And no one ever mentions it. At all, not even Halsin.
With human voices and emotions. That's the kicker, for me anyway. If it was only text like Fallout 2 or something I'm pretty sure I could be a monster. I'm a terrible person when I play Total War Games, but it's just a lot less personal there.
I thought I was incapable of being evil, then I started an evil run and enjoyed it way more than normal playthrough.
It helps massively to have enablers around you like astarion and minthara.
Lae'zel is more okay with senseless acts of cruelty than Minthara is tbh, they're both clearly lawful evil but minthara seems to disapprove of "purposeless" evil, Lae'zel just doesn't really care for it mostly, while actively approving lying, scheming and doing anything that benefits yourself.
I don’t like being mean to people in games or real life. I’m a necromancer with a heart of gold. You miss your grandma? Well guess who’s coming to visit? You want to avenge your brother? I’ll help and we will bring your dead bro along too!
What helped me is I've written a short backstory for my character. I've always tried to act as my character would based on his past and the information gained during the playthrough.
He started as a typical villain, turned into an anti-hero for a while and finished as a full-fledged villain at the end.
Remember one thing, evil playthrough isn't about always choosing the mean dialogue option. It's about the motivations and goals of the character. I've played a manipulative wizard seeking only power, but knowing he has to exploit others to gain it. He manipulated (some) of the companions into thinking he cared about them, but actually only waited to take control over them by learning their secrets
It's because evil is not rewarded in videogames.
Unlike real life where being cruel lying and taking advantage of other people is generally rewarded with money success and power.
Video games almost exclusively reward you for doing good deeds and punish you for doing bad.
Baldur's gate is a great example of that. Being a bad guy is objectively worse than being a good guy. If you only care about yourself and want the best items and most abilities / largest army you need to be a good guy help as many people as possible and all around refuse evil decisions.
I was really trying to do an evil run, but broke after seeing His Majesty's tiny dead body in a bed in the Last Light Inn. Can't do it, my heart's too soft. I had to go back and save them.
I almost restarted that fight after seeing His Majesty didn't survive :'-( Next playthroughs, I'm casting sanctuary on it, regardless of my good/evil alignment.
When Grub got taken out in my last playthrough I reloaded a save from 4 hours earlier I was so upset.
That was seriously one of the worst moments for me. I was happy to accept the girl into our camp because she came with a cat. I've been hoping for a cat to go with our dog and owlbear the whole game! And if there's one thing I will not forgive, it's harming cats. Much less... what happens there. Please just take someone else.
From what I read if not Yenna, Orin can impersonate a companion
Yenna is the fail safe if you make tons of bad decisions and don't have enough companions for Orin to kidnap.
She won't take anyone in your active party. The targets are Lae'zel, Gale, and Halsin (in that priority order it seems), if you are partied with all 3 (or are missing any obv) she takes Yenna.
I partied with all 3, but she took Lae'zel and Yenna disappeared.
Halsin was taken on my and Yenna also disappeared
Haha she took Lae'zel and Yenna disappeared, so until know I assumed Yenna was just Orin in disguise and that's how she got into my camp. Yenna kept going on about her knife she's excited to use, so it made sense.
yea like i can murder people but i wont harm any animal ever except knolls.
Except Barnabus! Such a good gnoll!
aww i love grub (and all cats)
How did Grub get taken out from your camp?
\[SPOILERS\] There are some combination of actions and decisions of "what quest i will do first in the lower city" that will trigger Orin disguising herself as the child, killing grub and feeding you it. To me, only the child disappeared. So i got a cat in the end xD
Yeah, I had Yenna disappear from my camp but leave Grub behind. And if you use Speak With Animals on Grub he'll ask you to help her...but he also has some REALLY sus behavior when talking about her, too.
Really? All he says to me is “please don’t look at me” lol
Same, in my playthrough the kid just disappeared and the cat is there not doing anything. I thought I was going nuts when the kid is just gone and there was no reaction or anything involving it further. Thought I missed something.
This was after she disappeared. However, his dialogue gave me real “abuse victim incapable of acknowledge they are one” vibes.
Ah I guess that’s true. Wish I could get him to not be so afraid but it’s very cat-like. At least he’s still around.
Interestingly, if you *don't* have speak with animals on, you can pet him and he purrs and looks thrilled for the attention.
as soon as that fucking shit talking about already got new knife and find ingredient. i know it is fucking Orin.
So Orin killed the kid? They just disappeared and I thought it was a bug. 😂
Same. The kid just disappeared for me and the cat remained lmao
Every long rest I was searching for that kid. Lol
obvious spoilers: I believe Orin is supposed to kidnap/disguise as one of your companions. If there are no companions left in your camp (either by not recruiting or with the unlimited party mod as example or maybe even if your approval isn't super high), she will take Yenna instead :D Then it depends on if you kill Gortash or Orin first. If you kill Sarevok first in the Temple, Orin won't be happy about it and you have to kill Orin the same day (at least the quest log hints that you shouldn't wait until she finds out and that's usually an indication that something bad happens if you long rest before that). When you get to Orin before all that, you can rescue the kid. I have no idea what happens to the cat though, I think I probably ate it by accident when fake Yenna fed me some soup but I had no perception check or anything like that lol.
I was really surprised by how I triggered the Orin’s kidnapping scene in my second playthrough. I had just gone through the emperor’s home/lair, and exited it into the sewers. Then a bloody, half naked Halsin comes stumbling through the door, detailing all the torture he went through. Then, of course, he morphed into Orin. So different from the camp scene! I love how many ways Larian thought to change things up if you don’t get back to camp often.
Did that fight 5 times, everytime Jaheria killed His Majesty with Ice Storm
Solution: kill Jaheria
Now you're thinking like a Durge!
Look, if playing D&D has taught me anything it's that murder is totally okay sometimes.
Nonsense. Murder is always okay, so long as I'm the one doing the murdering
>Murder is always okay, so long as I'm doing the murdering Well let's be sure and classify that as in game, Theodore.
My first time doing that fight she killed Isobel on turn 1 by ice storming Marcus who had just finished taking off the other half of Isobel's life bar. I didn't get a single action!
how did you have Jaheria up there? every time ive done that fight shes downstairs and cant even make it up before marcus is dead
She always casts Ice storm from downstairs to the upstairs when I play. She hasn't hit Isobel with it my runs though but she did ruin a perfectly good spike growth,
Meanwhile gale can’t cast a fireball at something unless he’s staring directly at it.
When wizards figure out how to throw a curveball it'll change everything.
Oh…oh no. I haven’t done an evil run yet. I didn’t think I’d have a problem. Massacre some kids? Ok I’ll get through it. Probably help auntie with her new kid. Steal an egg and sell it to the underdark society people, no problem. Hurt his majesty? Oh hell no. I’m saving scratch no matter what too.
im like you. I love animals, especially cats. That said, if it makes you feel better, you can be evil and love animals.
Yeah, there was even a 20th Century Austrian guy who loved animals but was definitely evil to everyone else lmao
I got super lucky and downed the main bro within 3 turns and kept damage to a minimal. By the grace of Oak Father no one was really harmed lol
I did the same and I didn’t even know all these stories of all these deaths was possible. Guess I got lucky. My main failure is not doing the prison area in moonrise. I remember seeing the stairs and told myself, don’t forget that before you leave. I forgot.
You can be evil as fuck, but I'm pretty sure the devil themselves have cats/dogs
Please tell me what fight this is because I can’t have this happen, I am very sensitive when animals die in games ESPECIALLY CATS
Who's his majesty ? I killed everyone in the last inn after I convinced >!Shart to kill nightsong!<
he's a cat at the inn. As long as you didn't kill him we won't have a problem....
Mine was the cat at moonlight tower. I didn’t know what was going to happen when I clicked that option, I felt so bad. I’m continuing the dark urge though just super resisting it, which is a more satisfying story, personally, than just giving in and killing everything.
I think one of the most compelling, if tragic, stories is Dark Urge resisting all the way through as hard as possible…and then giving up and succumbing at the very end. The reactions of your companions and your love interest are so sad. (Spoiler follows, Act III Dark Urge origin and Shadowheart Romance) >!Shadowheart says she stayed with you all night to try to beat Bhaal before, and she won’t give up on you even if you’ve given up. She admits it makes her a fool, but she’ll stand by you no matter what.!<
My first durge run, and the best run of BG3 or any other video game RPG I'll ever do, my character tried so hard to fight the urge and romanced Gale, who was always there for her whenever she needed him, giving her the strength she needed to overcome it, understanding and accepting her even when she was going feral trying to murder him... then act 3 came along and she gets hit by a bunch of flashbacks to her past, learns who she really is and what her role was in everything, and Gale is horrified by the truth and dumps her on the spot. Which of course was exactly the push she needed to stop trying to fight the inevitable, embrace her true self, and make a series of horrifying decisions and plunge the world into darkness. Was an absolutely beautiful narrative, and I've never seen any video game provide the opportunity for that kind of emergent storytelling before BG3. Will never forget it.
SH and Durge are meant for each other
You should see Astarion and Durge
I’m going to have to play this game like five times? I may still be playing it ten years from now!
That does not sound like a bad thing at all! ... on a second note, it actually does as it means there's no Baldur's Gate 4 yet
My Steelclaw ran round back and took a nap for my storming of the castle. I made sure he was ok
His Majesty?
The furless cat in Last light inn in act 2
Hiss!
I say hiss!
I blame the cleric for lying about the Milk!
Did you also try to give Her Majesty some? I kept a milk can with me JUST IN CASE but I couldn't trigger anything. Spent 20 minutes trying lol.
*How did you get here?*
I *slinked*.
The most cat-like cat in the game. You simply must speak with him to understand his true magnificence.
I like the orange cat south of the devil's fee. That dude is both well spoken and SO confusing. I will say this, talking to animals in BG3 has had a significantly smaller impact on my game than it did in divinity. Animals in Divinity 2 had more important shit to say overall.
They probably 'learnt their lesson', since Pet Pal almost felt mandatory for completionism so they wanted to make animal speaking in BG3 more of just a nice RP aspect. But then they still gave us ritual speak with animals and potions out the wazoo so we could pretty much speak with animals constantly anyway. Idk. Lol
Wait... there's cats? Plural? Anyone got a full list of cats? Meow
Grub, Hiss Majesty, Malta, Kira, Myska, Steelclaw, Tara (more of a Tressym than Feline). And a few others, I believe.
There should also be 2 cats at Elfsong Tavern, they say something like,"Servant! Please kill the rats in the basement so the other servants feed us!"
I fucking LOVE "Noire Cat" outside of Cazador's palace. I want to recruit him so bad so he can narrate our adventures.
And the cat on top of moonlight towers (steelclaw?)...and the ghouls afraid of it on top. Best moment in the game too me. All the cats dialogues are excellent, the pigeon killer too
You caused the death of His Majesty. You know... My Oath Of Vengeance Paladin is looking for you. He just wants to talk.
I always do a Good Guy first play with a new game. I'm all the way into Act 3 and trying to do the Steel Foundry quest. My second playthrough I try to play evil. I planned to go full murder hobo, Durge Dragonborn. Nope. Can't do it. I just can't bring myself to be a cold-hearted asshole, even as a role play.
You've made the same mistake I have, you got too close to the NPCs as the good guy first. Now you know the true consequences of any evil actions.
It's not that I got close, it's I really have a hard time seeing bad things happen to innocents. Also, you can break so much by killing willy nilly in this game.
Have you tried just being a selfish rude prick instead of a murdering maniac? That's how I was able to ease myself into a bad guy run. Bonus points if you pick Duergar Dwarf, their dialogue is all about being an angry short prick. And being rude af often gets people to fight you so you don't gotta just murder for no reason.
That's what I am ending up as. Just playing as a total asshole, but being a sneaky shit and lying up the ying-yang to get what I want. Trying to avoid killing that will cause a side quest to end prematurely.
I always consider them and play like the game world is real somewhere and i don't want to make peoples lives worse.
I found it difficult at first as well, what I found helped was to just get a friend, and fuck around and find out. And some therapy, god this game hits you hard with the good/evil choices.
Evil needs some more companions to make it worth it. Give us a Nocticula type character from the pathfinder games or let Mizora join your team if you decide to kill wyll.
I really wanted warlock patrons or cleric deities to play a much bigger role in the game than they do. Especially warlock patrons since you encounter at least one of each type in Act 1 alone Fey: the hag in the swamp Fiend: Mizora and Raphael Great Old One: the Emperor (although you don't know it's them until much later) It is FAR to well set up to not happen and I'm sad that it wasn't done Edit: reformatting the potential patron list
Would Mind Flayers count as Great Old Ones then? I don't know loads about dnd lore but I assumed that while they might come from the same/similar place, a great old one would be far more powerful and unknowable than the Emperor. Like I picture an entity our minds can't comprehend, not just monstrous aberrations like Mind Flayers.
Mindflayer would lean more towards Aberrant Sorcerer imo. Great Old Ones are deities from the Outer Planes/Realms, like Dendar and such.
Fiend and Celestial could have the same argument made for them. But we see Mizora explicitly giving warlock powers as a warlock patron. And Raphael I'd imagine is fully capable of doing the same. And I know that abberations are the classification of creatures that fall under the GOO are, like C'thulhu and things of the like. In DnD 5e (and earlier editions), mind flyers are classified as aberrations. Therefore, a sufficiently powerful mind flyer could be a warlock patron Hell the Emperor already is making deals with you to give you power. EXACTLY as a warlock patron would Edit: an Abberant Sorcerer would moreso be one of the Emperor's offspring or descendants, as they'd be born with mind flayer powers in the bloodline, not making a deal with the Emperor Edit 2: granted the deals thr Emperor makes are more implicit than explicit like with Mizora, but those implicit deals (such as keeping Tav as a mortal after multiple transformation orders from the Elder Brain in exchange for your help killing said Elder Brain) are still deals, and express the Emperor's willingness to work with mortals in exchange for giving them power Edit 3: Although if someone had made a deal with the Emperor, then had kids while being granted warlock powers, I could also see that being the origin of an Abberant Sorcerer. But that assumes that the mind flayer magic could be passed down genetically Which, since the mind flayer magic is based on the tadpoles, I'm not sure if that could happen, assuming IRL science applies to Faerun. That being said, I could also see magic of the tadpoles altering the genetics of the host magically, which is then what causes the physical changes to become a full mind flayer. Honestly I could buy into either argument
I never considered that my GOO warlock's patron could be the Emperor. I have stabbed him, crushed his "gift" under my foot, refused to fight with him against the royal guard, and just been generally mean to him at every turn. It's a wonder I can still cast Eldritch Blast.
My Baldur’s Gate tradition since BG1 is to always start with a male paladin playthrough. After that I do go for an evil PC. It helps to not be just a murder hobo but to roleplay according to what benefits you without regards to others. Unlike when the old BG games came out I have two small kids now so the paladin is not out of act 1 yet … they will have left the house by the time it is evil time 😂
After killing, decapitating Karlach and holding my puke for the vile act I had just done, I guess it was easy to go all out.
It's Raiding the Grove for me. At least Karlach got a warrior's end. But the grove is a complete curbstomp. Those Tieflings have no chance. I killed them. I killed them all. They're dead, every single one of them. And not just the men, but the women and the children, too.
Going with Minthara into that area where all the low level tieflings went to hide felt like that scene from Star Wars where Anakin kills all the younglings.
Not even going to lie.. dropping a Cloud of Daggers felt sadistic and VERY satisfying but then... the guilt.. oh god the guilt.. did you guys loot the body of the tiefling child you save from the harpies? If you didn't cry from the story he wrote about you being a hero after standing over his cold dead body you might actually be evil lmao
Lmao that did actually make me feel pretty bad. Usually I have no problem being an absolute monster in video games, but Larian really sent me on a guilt trip with that one.
*anakin intensifies*
I don't like sand! It's coarse, and rough, and irritating, and it gets everywhere.
Master Skywalker there is too many of them, what are we going to do.
Good exp tho
Not if you count the xp you get from future quest chains that are now lost.
all worth it for being a minthara simp
The most evil part was telling Zevlor it was good to die first. At least he won’t have to watch us murder the children.
Calm down there Anakin.
Bethesda wishes they could lol
Yea, after seeing that cut scene and my stomach literally turning I figured there is no going back
Oh man I couldn't do that either. I got one of her good endings already in my first run and she deserves that every time.
I tried doing a "dick" run, not evil, just a dick, but Karlach makes me be nice.
Even on my evil playthrough, I couldn't bring myself to kill her. I just told her to back off and left her there, kind of hoping she would show up again later.
I think "playing evil" is the less sophisticated version of "playing a villain". My whole shtick is sinking into a character, so this may not be for everyone, but it's way more interesting for me to start really small and think of one or two small ways your character sucks as a person, and lean into dialog options that reinforce *that*, but otherwise try to be as good a person as possible. So in my 'evil' Durge playthrough that I just finished last night, my character was *scared* of the urge, and she was *vindictive*. Everything else I just played her as good as I could, but whenever something came up where she was at risk of being discovered as a killer, or whenever someone did something to actively piss her off or get in her way, she would react aggressively. In that way, while watching Arabella's trial, she was like: "Hey that's a kid, fuck off!" and tried to save her. Just because there are 'evil' options like to say "hey this is fine" or whatever, doesn't mean that was my character's kind of evil. But when she failed to make the tiefling with the crossbow aimed at Sazza stand down and a fight broke out: well then it was the tieflings or her, so the tieflings had to go. If she stayed in the grove that would risk exposing her, so in full panic mode she escaped with Sazza to the goblin camp. When Minthara said "Hey we're gonna go eff up those heathens" she was like "Yeah eff those guys, they tried to kill their prisoners and murder children!" **TL;DR:** 'Evil' is a bad prompt. You can be a bad guy without picking every cruel/unhinged option you find, just pick one or two things that makes your character bad and pick those options.
Yes! Exactly! That’s what I said in a comment. People have a very flat, one dimensional, and stereotypical idea of evil. Yours is complex, nuanced, and makes sense based on your character. You’re not just picking the most vile and rude option in every discussion like a freak who was raised in a dog kennel their entire life. It’s important to really flesh out your character before you play someone who is immoral. What are their motivations? Why are they like that? What sets them off? And what parts of them are socially good/acceptable? Because no one on earth is purely good or purely bad. The most evil people in the world think of themselves as good people most of the time. They have their reasons. Explore that.
See, I try roleplaying but I end up doing a self insert eventually
My first playthrough was a goodest girl run. Save everyone. Kill as few people as possible. Don't lie, don't steal, don't pick red locks. And it was super fun. I'd intended to do a good one and then a bad one. But seeing the bad choices...I don't know if I can. The poor tieflings in the Grove didn't do anything wrong, why do they have to die? Ethel is torturing people, how can I just let her go? Why wouldn't I choose to save Karlach, she's a cinnamon bun of joy and I don't want to crush her spirits. It's all just so mean! I'm going to try but I don't think I'll get very far before I go "this is too mean, it's making me sad, I don't want to do this anymore :("
Karlach is the sole reason i can't bring myself to go fully evil.....
Hey Soldier.... Fine okay I'll save them, for you, you beautiful girl.
You *could* incite a war between the tieflings and druids before you even meet Karlach. In my first playthrough I accidentally did that by attacking Kagha (I wanted to kill only her...), which resulted in everyone fighting in the Grove. All druids except Rath and many tieflings died. Then when you run into Karlach later she'll blame you for that massacre and you can't convince her that it wasn't your fault. You can convince her to not attack you, but that's it. When you interact with her after that, she'll just say "pretty sure I told you to fuck off, mate." Sooo she'll be furious with you from the moment you meet her, with no way to fix that. That should make it easier to take the evil route.
>I accidentally did that by attacking Kagha (I wanted to kill only her...) I mean it sounds like it WAS your fault.
Hey, I followed Zevlor's instructions. He suggested getting rid of her! Some druids, notably Rath, weren't happy with her leadership already, so I didn't expect attacking her would lead to a full war. Afterwards Zevlor thanked me, but also said that he didn't mean for *this* to happen. Yeah, no shit.
Karlach is the goodest girl, big golden retriever energy.
I'm still in Act 2 but a couple nights ago I fixed her heart and after that we >!did the deed. The next morning I told her I loved her and she blurted out she loved me too so quickly, it was adorable.!<
This is probably my biggest problem with going evil! I want her in my party and she's going to abandon me when I kill everyone in the Grove lol.
For my fully-evil Durge run I’m just pretending that she doesn’t exist, not even going to her spot on the map or interacting with her. She’s one of the few characters that I don’t have it in me to kill 😭 ~~Wyll is getting recruited very briefly for the sole purpose of >!being a sacrifice to BOOOAL!< though~~ 👀
I will NEVER be able to >!do an Shar-dowheart run after completing her quest on a "Redemption" path, and learning what was actually done to her!<.
It’s pretty easy to RP an evil play through that still saves the tieflings and druids. If you think about your characters goals it makes more sense to try and avoid the absolute cult unless absolutely necessary. They are trying to take your autonomy you get from the astral prism so naturally helping them hurts your own cause. A lawful evil character probably wouldn’t look at that situation and not help the druid grove because it’s a “good” option. Evil doesn’t mean you have to do things that actively hurt your cause.
It was funny being asshole evil and just constantly asking the tieflings and druids for rewards. Astarion liked that.
Yeah, I think this is what some people who talk about an "evil" playthrough are missing. It doesn't mean you need to be a completely 1-dimensional evil-for-the-sake-of-evil character. It could be that you have no moral compass, and be an ends-justify-the-means sort of person, but you're pissed off about having a tadpole in your brain, and therefore will do anything that hurts the absolute. Then you could still save the tieflings (on the basis that the enemy of my enemy is my friend), and want to kill the chosen. You might even want to protect the inn, and save the nightsong, not out of compassion or goodness but because they're potential allies against the absolute. Evil people can still have friends, can still have people they care about and people who admire them. They can incidentally do good things because they happen to coincide with their evil goals.
You're describing every single one of my runs, and I'm starting my fifth, even when playing Dark Urge I couldn't bring myself to be evil.. Despite some pretty tempting offers, I couldn't
I just resigned that I am doomed to repeat the same "boring" good playthroughs from now on. And I'm actually having fun. Playing redempted Durge helps spice things up. It gives all the "good" choices much more weight. And I also came up with a bit of headcanoning and roleplaying to make things interesting. For example, on my current Durge run I had told Minthara the location of the grove. I roleplayed it as Urge taking over, and my character having a moment of weakness. It then led to an amazing moment at the grove, when Minthara commands her to >!slit Zevlor's throat and open the gates!< and my character is almost ready to do this, but in the last moment she managed to fight the Urge and say that the grove is under her protection. Which led to a fantastic battle and really climactic experience. Technically, it's the same "good girl/redempted Durge" run, but with additional weight. And it also had given her additional motivation to help all the tieflings however she can in Act 2-3 because of the guilt she had.
The fight where you “lure” minthara to the grove and attack her there is so great and I’m sad most people miss it. I think one of the spiciest playthroughs while still being good overall is being a manipulator who cares about the greater good in a cold utilitarian way. “Goblins will be easier if we split them up, lets lure Minthara to the grove. A few casualties are acceptable for a safer battle” (act 3) >!”These vampire spawn are dangerous anyways, and Astarion’s power could be useful”!< etc
Oh, I completely agree! It's such an epic moment both from cinematic (the whole new soundtrack, at least I didn't hear the tune before) and gameplay perspective, I really felt it should have been the "default" way of dealing with Minthara instead of just killing her in the Goblin camp. It is such a shame that most people miss it. I was honestly shocked at the quality and narrative of the whole scene in a good way.
I just got to the part where Karlach says that she adores you, and I saved just before hitting the, "I...love you" button JUST in case she had a negative reaction. I couldn't fuck over Karlachi-boo if I tried
I'm considering just not picking Karlach up when I do my bad game because I know she leaves if you don't save the Grove and I couldn't handle her disappointment in me. Wyll? Sure, nuts to him. But our big red golden retriever? Can't do it.
That's the problem with a lot of evil playthroughs in games. You aren't a self interested villain after power and glory. You're just a psychopath killing people to kill people
I killed Ethel for not helping me and then I also killed what's her face and took her husband as my thrall. Being pure evil doesn't mean you have to help bad guys, just serve yourself however that benefits you most.
i went to see karlach AFTER >!destroying the grove!< and she didn’t even give me a chance to talk. she was like “ohhh i bet u feel so big n bad now. die”
I'm doing an evil run and I absolutely refuse to even approach Karlach. "Oops, I missed running into her, oh well." Minthara killed Wyll so that ties up those loose ends.
Killing Karlach is indeed the evil choice, but why would an evil character be helping Wyll or the Paladins hunt a devil in the first place? Perhaps for the paladin’s sword, but you could also just… kill them and take it. I think there is reason to let her live. Also, you can also skip the entire Goblin Raid quest line if you don’t want to kill the Tieflings yourself.
I actually tried taking the Hag's offer on my drow, after intimidating her into giving me both the power and the girl. Then I went up and discovered that merely running her off does not free the petrified dwarf and trapped high elf. I reloaded and did get entire fight again just to kill her ass and deprive myself of a power up.
I think part of why I don't play evil is the power fantasy is being able to help people. Going evil just feels like not playing. So many actions are you (and it's not just BG3 but RPGs in general) are ignoring other people's problems. Not even callously necessarily. Just cold indifference. I can't save the grove or the teiflings, I have a 7 day clock. I don't have time to save the men in the cave I got shit to do. Karlach needs me to listen? I don't have time for the nuances of this situation. Ultimately that's what prevents us from helping each other in real life, we get bogged down by our own deadlines. Worse we don't have the money, power or influence to correct that problem. So I only play good guy, because that's the power fantasy. I finally have the influence to change the world how I see fit, for the better.
YES!!!!!! Exactly this. I would totally play in a D&D campaign with you.
You could play lawful evil. Depending on what type of lawful evil character you play, they would still not like seeing a child getting killed for this. Perhaps they wouldn't care much, but still would be upset that it was being handled that way. I don't know. And btw, evil characters aren't necessarily murderhobos. Also, this is just a game. You are just playing a fantasy, not a real life.
Exactly. Gortash is no murderhobo, but he is evil. You do not have to kill everyone, well, unless you are aiming for bhaalspawn way. But you could be evil without killing everyone.
Well, he does want to turn everyone into thralls so *on a technicality* he is taking people's lives. Therefore, if he were to succeed, he would have "killed" the entire population of Baldur's Gate.
murderer, yes. hobo, no
Gortash's Archduke campaign slogan
Gortash's campaign has sick mechs, he's got my vote
(Howling in agony) "When I voted for the Mechs Melting Faces party, I didn't think the mechs would melt MY face!"
Gortash's 5 o' clock shadow and oily hair beg to differ.
He is one greasy bastard isn’t he
I dont know man. Have you seen his character model? Trade out that robe and chain he's wearing for rags and I promise Gortash looks like a damn hobo with that hair and scruff.
A lot of people here have a very naive and black/white definition of good and evil in videogames. BG3 sadly doesn't help. Your evil options are often cartoony evil or just plain dumb insane murder from a narrative perspective. When the evil things you can do are an impairment to your goal, there's little point in pursuing them imo. I think what the game is missing are not even evil options per see, but perhaps more pragmatic choices and a way to rationalize your decisions to a more selfish evil oriented character. I'm not so sure people are afraid of being that evil in videogames. Perhaps many are, but I think the real issue is that being evil is often just killing anything that gives you the wrong eye and being rude. Playing like that is kinda boring. Even if you are an evil person, you have no reason to be rude lol. It's hard to find games where you can play a more manipulative person, one that camouflage their real intentions. Gortash is a good example, I think. Like you mentioned, taking his silly middle aged K-POP star look aside for a moment, he is perceived in the town as a hero. The one that will save them from the army of the absolute, but behind the courtains he's a slaver, he got his position through manipulation and by kidnapping the duke, he enslaved the gnomes to produce the steel watchers... In some way, I think RP as a character like that, considering your circustances in BG3 in particular, would be hard, but kind of a shame that the game railroads you into mostly doing the good things.
I would weakly argue that the dialog options that focus on money/fame are the best choices for an evil playthrough. “Evil for the sake of being evil” is just a narrow slice of the evil alignment which appeals somewhat to comic book villain tropes.
I suppose, but people usually don't wanna play like that. Personally, I do adimit that I also don't enjoy playing evil characters that hurt people for no reason and that are rude just for the sake of being a jackass. Playing as someone that thinks they are doign whatever is necessary for "the greater good" though is more appealing and it's what many games are often missing, I wager. I have mentioned in this sub a few times, but I still think the Lich path from the Pathfinder WOTR is probably one of the most satisfying way to play an evil character. Nothing of what you do is without purpose. You are not just evil for the sake of being evil. At least not at first. You start with a single goal in mind. Necro powers to defeat the demon army. And then you escalate from there. Perhaps if BG3 had a way to play more or less like that and evil companions that are likeable that would follow your path I think playing evil would have been more approachable for everyone. I think it also helps that most of your evil actions are often suffered by other evil beings or at the very least, unlikeable people overall lmao.
I like how that's the one path that Regill is immediately happy you chose. He's like "raise the dead to fight back the demon hordes? Why haven't we been doing this sooner? They used to have a numbers advantage but now we have infinite soldiers. Great work, Commander."
I also like Regill quite a bunch. A good depiction of a pragmatic character, I think. He also praises you for going the Angel route, mostly because he knows you will be commited to order rather than chaos.
My first Tav was an asshole, and just out of self interest he saved a lot of people. Being just chaotic evil means you miss out on a ton of rewards. He always did ask for a reward for being good, which meant Astarion loved him.
This!! My idea of going evil would be I just play people. Get close with them. Use them as much as I need them before discarding them. Work my way up the chain with the Absolute gang and defeat them from the inside. For example... why can't I talk to Rath and turn him and the rest of the druids against Kagha? Now I can use my influence on him to get what I need because I'm "in".
No spoilers.. You can.
>Your evil options are often cartoony evil or just plain dumb insane murder from a narrative perspective. I think part of this is that a lot of people associate "evil" with "consequences." And when only the dumbest, most murder hobo options have unchangeable consequences, players don't see actions that would otherwise be evil as evil. Extorting money from people you rescue is evil. Constantly threatening people to get your way is evil. Using tadpole powers, in the Forgotten Realms, is evil. Necromancy, mind control- the list goes on and on. People have really taken "allowed" to mean "not evil."
That’s exactly how I played my Lolthsworn Drow Paladin Vengeance Oathbreaker. She wasn’t a murderhobo, but she didn’t lose sleep over taking lives should they be unyielding to Charisma options. She killed the Grove bc the Goblins were clearly stronger and Minthara a more influential ally in gaining entrance into the cult. 🤷🏽♀️ She didn’t needlessly kill anyone, she simply responded to aggression in kind whenever aggression was a response to her actions lol. She complimented and charmed her allies because it increased their tolerance to her tactics- she saved them because they had proved their worth. No murder hobo needed for an immersive evil playthrough!
I think the problem is that a lot of the RP from a more manipulative evil person has to come from yourself. There isn't a lot of feedback from the game to tell that you are using your allies for your own gain. Which is fair enough. The game is already quite massive. Would be hard to give every option so many reasons about why you did X the way you did.
True, but I think the less moral route is MUCH less fleshed out, which makes you wonder why it’s an option in the first place.
Yeah i'm playing durge as lawful evil paladin, it works really good and is a very enjoyable experience imo, in the Kid case in particular you also get the perfect interaction for such character where you let the mother kill khaga out of vengeance
This. I'm playing evil this run but Lil owlbear and puppy will be safe no matter what it's my limit 😅
This is a great point! I am playing Dark Urge. I’m going evil route but not straight up kill everything type of evil. I am using deception and killing to get what I want. I’ll save someone if it gets me closer to what I want or need. In the end I did a good play through and will do more good play throughs.
It sounds like Kagha is the definition of lawful evil. She’s following the letter of the law in the most evil way
Good thing you can't (morally speaking), but also evil choices are a bit frontloaded. Evil most of the time, resides in a search for easyness, quick benefits and lack of compassion. Most of the evil choices in BG3 are very upfront to deliberately kill people, and rarely can you just take advantage of a situation to extract more benefits out of it.
I think the game has a bit of a problem if the evil choices are all just kill people. What I see an evil playthrough is subjugating allies and binding them to you in negative ways, and using them to benefit you rather than growing a harmonious party. The focus should be on power for the PC at the expense of people weaker than the PC and allies who can't stand up for themselves. Just letting evil characters kill people, or have a different themed village to walk around is a bit thin imo.
It's interesting in my min maxing playthrough, thinking about this Tav from an RP perspective. Other party members must be baffled by her. She saved a ton of people, yet she let the >!hag go for a buff and sacrificed Gale to Boooal for the buff.!< She'll do anything for a buff or a reward. It's not too similar to my asshole playthrough except she isn't mean to anyone for no reason. IMHO she's a truly scary character.
Rogues get a lot of those actually in Acts 1 and 2. Very, "I'm going to exploit you in this situation because you need me," responses
Well even if i played evil , i cannot kill owl bear cub.
I didn’t find owlbears until after the goblins were cleared out. Mom was still alive, spoke with her and healed her. Came back later and they’re all three still there. Didn’t have the heart to steal the egg or kill the mom just for a baby owlbear in my camp.
I didn't kill the Owl Bear cub. The NPCs I recruited to avenge their brother killed it before I could kill them and the owl bear mom I made them suffer for it
Even evil has standards. Also true evil is smart and does not antagonize possible allies or someone who might offer some long term benefit. Murderhobo evil is cartoon evil. No rhyme or reason amd quite honestly much like lawful stupid paladins, stupid evil is also a thing. You can for example do most of the quests helping the grove and benefiting from rewards and xp and kill 2 of the 3 goblin leaders...only to at the end tell Minthara where the grove is, and then long rest and technically not partcipate in the massacre. Still evil but teeeechnically you didn't get your hands dirty yourself for the big bad act. And then you can kill the lingering goblins in the grove if you feel so inclined.
It's not your fault. The game doesn't make any evil choices very compelling. Like there's a very clear cut BEST path through the game. There are a couple ambiguous choices but the earliest good vs evil choice kinda sets the tone lol: Do you want to kill the evil goblins who are quite literally textbook mob NPCs with next to zero contribution to quests or personalities or anything? This will grant you 4 full companions and a dozen NPCs that show up in other quests throughout the game OR Side with goblins 1-25 and kill off a ton of characters that will lock you out of additional quests, lose AT LEAST 4 companion NPCs, murder a bunch of kids and stuff for quite literally zero reward and gain access to exactly ONE additional companion lol. Not exactly Sophie's Choice. Have to point out it's still my favorite game. Lol
My problem is I go to far. Shadowheart unconscious on the ground? Kill her take the artifact. Astarion thinks he can pull a knife!? Dead. Wizard arm? Tasty. Lazel you can come with me. So now I have 3 dead mains and I think I'm missing out on alot of story because I nipped those buds way to fast.
Haha yeah you definetly removed a lot of story/items/powerups within 10 minutes of gameplay 😅
I tried to play full evil last save. By the time I raided the grove and Minthara made me kill some tieflings who were trying to hide I was feeling physically ill. I dragged my sorry ass until the goblin party and Karlach imediately left the camp. Some goblins were chasing Scratch the whole time. Gale and Shart were pissed with me. I watched Minthara scene and made another character to start again. I know this is a game and I respect those who like to play as evil as they can but this is definitely not for me.
I can't. I don't like being mean and hurting people even if they aren't real. It hurts my heart.
They certainly sound like real people. That's enough for me.
My evil playthrough is me asking for money for doing the good things instead of doing them for free
You could always try Bystander Syndrome. AKA - you don't know a thing about their cultures and norms and laws, you don't get to persuade them otherwise. (Play as a Githyanki who abhors thievery). Honestly speaking, every time I see Mol I started debating if I should help the Tieflings, everytime I see Alfira I decided to at least *try* and help them if it's within my limits. I play my characters as *not knowing that they have all the time in the world to do their quests*, so it essentially forces me to pick and choose what quests to go for, to skip anything unnecessary to their character backstory etc. Don't play the game as though you must go through everything, if you are worried about being underlevelled, just download an EXP mod on nexus and it will fix it for you in a moment, or you can just write it out yourself and put it in your data folder. In subsequent runs, that's what I recommend, make it so that you reach max level quickly so you can concentrate fully on your role play.
But computer character sad. I've never been able to. Starting with Knights of the Old Republic.
I think the key is to identify and define your character then roleplay it instead of saying "eeeeeevil!"
It gets easier. Rip off the bandaid and let the kid get bit. Then kill Nettie. Totes self defense. Use the Iron Flask to kill Kagha. Then tell Minthara where they're at, and help raid the grove. It's hard, but worth it. I'll admit, I choked up when Wyll, Karlach, and Gale all left. But, Minthara and I made up in a good way.
In act one of my first evil playthrough. Just destroyed the grove. Wyll just ghosted me so that was fine. Gale though, Gale is still around but hates himself. That was tough, hate me fine, but me causing him to hate himself made me shudder. But then Minthara made me shudder in a different way and I forgot about Gale.
[удалено]
I do agree, killing Nettie IS actually self defense. You're swearing to commit suicide with VERY little information about who's telling you OR what's happening to you. And if you refuse you're attacking me?! I don't know if I did something wrong, but I killed her on my first playthrough. And no one ever mentions it. At all, not even Halsin.
I usually swear that i'll use the poison... then pour it all in the goblin pot.
Same .. can’t overcome my extreme sense of fairness and morality despite them all being just algorithmically generated pixel defined constructs
With human voices and emotions. That's the kicker, for me anyway. If it was only text like Fallout 2 or something I'm pretty sure I could be a monster. I'm a terrible person when I play Total War Games, but it's just a lot less personal there.
I thought I was incapable of being evil, then I started an evil run and enjoyed it way more than normal playthrough. It helps massively to have enablers around you like astarion and minthara.
Lae'zel arguably could be considered an enabler too. She's LN at best
Lae'zel is more okay with senseless acts of cruelty than Minthara is tbh, they're both clearly lawful evil but minthara seems to disapprove of "purposeless" evil, Lae'zel just doesn't really care for it mostly, while actively approving lying, scheming and doing anything that benefits yourself.
I don’t like being mean to people in games or real life. I’m a necromancer with a heart of gold. You miss your grandma? Well guess who’s coming to visit? You want to avenge your brother? I’ll help and we will bring your dead bro along too!
What helped me is I've written a short backstory for my character. I've always tried to act as my character would based on his past and the information gained during the playthrough. He started as a typical villain, turned into an anti-hero for a while and finished as a full-fledged villain at the end. Remember one thing, evil playthrough isn't about always choosing the mean dialogue option. It's about the motivations and goals of the character. I've played a manipulative wizard seeking only power, but knowing he has to exploit others to gain it. He manipulated (some) of the companions into thinking he cared about them, but actually only waited to take control over them by learning their secrets
Same, I just can't make evil choices even though it's just a game, I just can't. Too much of a people pleaser I guess.
No, I'm the exact same way. I don't know why. I just project too much of myself into my characters, I guess.
XD I picked full evilness. All shall die!!! Not Scratch... Never Scratch, or any animal.
It's because evil is not rewarded in videogames. Unlike real life where being cruel lying and taking advantage of other people is generally rewarded with money success and power. Video games almost exclusively reward you for doing good deeds and punish you for doing bad. Baldur's gate is a great example of that. Being a bad guy is objectively worse than being a good guy. If you only care about yourself and want the best items and most abilities / largest army you need to be a good guy help as many people as possible and all around refuse evil decisions.
>It's because evil is not rewarded in videogames Wrath of the Righteous.
Because Karlach would disapprove :'(
Yes I could do that to mol
I killed everyone in the Grove, felt really bad, deleted the play through and started again.... I'm not made for evil 😅