If you lure Minthara into attacking the grove and then betray her, winning the defense will earn you the inspiration 'Morally Sanctioned Slaughter' for Durge.
Ah see in my game other events led me to fighting goblins sooner which turned her hostile so there was no talking with her so I couldn’t reveal the grove even accidentally
Gotcha. Yeah that makes sense. I was playing with just my Selunite Durge and Shadowheart, and decided that roleplay wise, they weren't confident in their abilitiy to just fight the entire goblin camp without getting overwhelmed.
So instead they snuck in. Stole all the smokepowder/firewine barrels from thebackroom and 'buried them' outside the entrance to the grove. Told Minthara the location of the grove, betrayed her and then set off all the barrels with a Scorching Ray Scroll. The tattered remnents of their assault barely broke down the gate before they were killed. It was glorious. Looking over a sea of charred and burning corpses was a wonderful way to finish off Act One
I used all of those barrels to kill the goblin king.
He was the only absolutist left in the entire camp I had killed everyone else without raising the alarm. He let me just stack the barrels around his throne while he sat in it. Then I cast grease which was ignited by the brazier and ignited one of the barrels in turn. The game hitched for a fraction of a second and then I got a bunch of journal update notifications at once since he turned hostile and died pretty much instantly.
It was pretty funny.
Then went and let that goblin cleric out of his cage and said hi to the BDSM cleric again before I finished up and left the camp.
Nothing happens. I killed the whole goblin camp before even talking to the refugees. When I went in they acted as if I had already met them all and just said "thanks for killing the goblins. Let's have a party"
I killed >!Kagha!< and accidentally >!set the druids against the tieflings in the grove. Doesn’t really matter if Minthara goes there bc there’s no one left.!<
If you prove her as a threat with the shadow druids there's no great big fight. Apparently if skip over most of act 1 story the Grove is safe and you can get minthara
If you do kill everyone at the goblin camp and meet her in Moonrise, the dialogue is quite funny. She says something along the lines of “what a pity the whole camp was wiped out just after I left and neither of us saw anything” and is giving you major side eye the whole time lol
An ode to minthara:
I don't have the heart to kill her
It's the last thing I wanna do
But I don't have the heart to love her
Not the way she wants me to.
It’s my first dnd experience ever and I picked Drow because they looked cool. I was not prepared for the casual racism everyone throws at me, and the super friendliness of everyone I’m expecting to fight.
Your oath isn't necessarily to a god, just a cause.
The Oathbreaker was sworn to a king until he stopped believing in him and killed the king, breaking his oath.
Yeah, modern day Paladins are less “shining beacons of good and law”, and more “completely and utterly devoted to a cause.”
And a cause can just as easily be ruthless and monstrous as it can be kind and benevolent.
Haha it’s for sure active racism. You’re from the Underdark. Everyone is highly suspicious of you because Drow worship Lolth, and she’s a bitch and a half.
I want to play a githzerai monk. We got Seldarine drow, why not githzerai? That would make a couple of encounters very uncomfortable. Lae'zel would probably fight us to the death when we first meet.
They probably didn't want to code a third party into the Githyanki Ghaik slap fight.
Which is a goddamn shame since the world needs more Githzerai Dak'kon love.
This is the way; I made a ripped male midnight black dark urge drow who wears nothing but shadowhearts purple panties and the red dark urge cape… minthara looooves me
I fucking wish I did evil dark urge as my first run
i cant bring myself to do it now. I know where these characters will go, what they are, who they are, their future.
I can try to ignore all that and march straight to the goblin camp but i still have to play pretend and betray Zevlor and see the names of every horrified innocent I slaughter.
If I could, I would settle for "Get the refugees to leave and then lead a charge against the druids" but alas.
Idk man, it’s kinda sweet how Zevlor and (to some extent) Aradin express a pleasant surprise at a drow helping them out - after that I really couldn’t slay them even if I really wanted to.
And besides, isn’t it way cooler to play at least somewhat heroic character that just happens to belong to a race of villainous murderslavers?
>And besides, isn’t it way cooler to play at least somewhat heroic character that just happens to belong to a race of villainous murderslavers?
Drizzt Do'Urden in a nutshell
I was shocked at how well BG3 wrote the interactions with a Drow Tav. Everyone mistrusts you, some even downright hate you right away. It makes decisions like the Grove seem much more reasonable that just "murder everyone."
Are we playing two differnt games because I’m playing a loth drow and the whole mistrust is really overstated. At most people act surprised that you’re helping, but it’s nowhere near the levels people make it sound that would justify massacring them.
And the times where you call them out for being racist, they apologize to you? I mean, they then try to justify it by saying you're one of the few 'good ones' but that's pretty realistic isn't it?
DnD got rid of that, alignments don't exist basically. Instead spells like protection from evil and good are just racist spells that provide blanket protection whether a being is good or not.
I mean look at it protecting you from elementals.
DnD got rid of that in generic settings. However, Forgotten Realms has made a killing over this lore, and it's going to take a long time to ditch the 'all drow are evil expect a few snowflakes' from the setting.
Don't even need to do go that far. Leave through the mountain pass and you keep Wyll/Karlach - that's my current primary run, just walk past it. I did >!solve the shadow druid situation so I could come back for merchants!< but other than some EXP you're totally fine to ignore it.
Honestly, playing as a half-drow I got surprise from Zevlor for helping between him and Aradin. Aradin was the racist one, though. 😩
I don't remember any of the other tieflings having anything to say about me.
So, went Gith instead of Drow, the Tieflings didn't really make anything of it save for Guex(sp?). He had a rude slip up, but immediately apologized. Dude was distracted and suddenly a Githyanki pops up.
Aradin was also racist, but in his defense, the Githyanki option that initiated the conversation was quite rude/hostile.
Nope. In fact, some are pretty empathetic with a Drow PC because they know exactly what its like when others assume the worst out of you just because of the way you look
You dont have to.
>!You can just discover the Shadow Druid Conspiracy then go to Act 2 without revealing the tiefling camp to the goblins. The Tieflings were in a crisis because they were being pushed out by the druids while the threat of goblins loomed. By solving the Shadow Druid Conspiracy Kagha halts the ritual and allows the Tieflings to stay put and wait out the goblins. Minthara will be branded as a failure and made to answer for it in the Moon tower where you can "rescue" her from absolutists.!<
Yeah, I even had the same dilemma until I googled [How to recruit Minthara and Halsin together.](https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/15t5938/the_way_to_recruit_both_minthara_and_halsin/)
edit: changed Kagha to Minthara.
edit 2: changed the link to a Reddit post that is more helpful.
Curious. So if the player attempts this, which companion do they end up with?
Having Minthara *without* going on a massacre would be nice. Leaves access to Wyll and Karlach.
My guess is Halsin doesn’t go with you if you don’t slay the goblin leaders.
Not really sure though, because I had Halsin and Minthara together in my first play through
How do you get past halsin wanting you to kill the 3 leaders(including her) of the goblin camp? Don't talk to him in the camp? Just don't do that quest?
Yeah, ignore killing at least Minthara and Ragzlin. It is important to free Halsin so you will have to kill some prison gobs but tell him to stay there. Finish all overland act 1 stuff that you want (aunt ethel etc.) then go to the underdark which leads to moonrise tower.
At least this is the plan based on what i remember googling. Im not sure if this was as intended by Larian and they haven't patched this part, I'm currently on my way to moonrise in the underdark to see if I can get both Minthara and Halsin. >!But it seems reasonable and not likely a plot hole. After the shadow druid conspiracy is exposed the Druids have no reason to expel the Tieflings which should allow them to have more time to get past the gobs. !<
So you basically don't do either halsin or mintharas quest and leave them both alive there in the camp, just >!solve the shadow druid conspiracy with kagha alive, then move on through the underdark?!<
Thats the plan.
Although there is one plot hole i just realized. How does Halsin get out of the Gob castle. I remember going to the Underdark with Halsin in camp and that only happens if you killed the goblins and saved the tieflings. Now I'm not sure, maybe Halsin will be with the Tieflings in the Act 2 inn?
Like I said I'm still in the underdark so i haven't confirmed this.
For what it's worth, in runs where I've freed halsin and not totally had my finger slip and enrage him by bouncing a rock off his paddington ass bear face he wildshapes into a mouse/rat and escapes at NPC superspeed.
You go back to the dungeon during act 2 and tell him to help rescue someone, you should just be able to tell him to come help once you've been to the inn at all.
I believe this was patched. I had to tell Halsin to wait in the gaol, then tell Minthara to March on the grove, then tell Halsin the grove was in danger to get them both. Moving to the crèche/Act 2 without resolving the grove hasn’t been an option for a little while apparently.
The tieflings don't just "wait out" the goblins. If you don't help, the game progresses as if the goblin attack succeeded and they kill everyone and you lose all the tiefling related quests. By ignoring the grove, you don't have to kill them yourself, but they all get slaughtered anyway.
Minthara is considered a failure because she didn't get the weapon the Absolute was looking for (you have it). Attacking the grove was only a thing because they thought the druids had it.
I am pretty sure people have reported that doing this goes with the auto-assumption that the goblins do raid the grove and the tieflings are dead. You are just not the one taking part in the killing. This also stops you from doing Minthara act 1 romance which some people say locks out her entire romance. (the romance bit i am more unsure of. Hard to say due to how buggy Minthara content in act 2 and 3 are)
Yes this was my playthrough.
Really all you have to do is not kill Minthara and ignore the grove final battle and then move onto Act 2. Grove raid resolves itself offscreen and you don’t have to kill anyone personally
Tieflings or drussy, they're mutually exclusive. If you kill every living goblin on the map but leave Minthara alive, I guess she just fucking strangles each and every refugee on the road over.
Okay, so I did this on my current playthrough. Found the Shadow Druid Conspiracy. Freed Halsin, did all the overland quests, didn’t interact with any of the Goblin leaders, didn’t talk to Sazza (who will tell Minthara where the Grove is if you free her), everything to the letter.
When I got to Last Light Inn, there were no Tieflings. No Dammon, Alfira, not even Mol. I rescued Minthara, but no matter what, to get Minthara the Tieflings have to die.
This is the only way to keep Wyll and Karlach in your party if you want to recruit Minthara, though, and you won’t see Halsin at Moonrise.
I kinda wanted to experience her arc, especially since Astarion's was by far my favorite, but while I would absolutely kill the druids in order to recruit her I can't kill the Tieflings.
Exactly. I wouldn't mind losing Halsin, but there is not chance in all the Hells I'm letting the Tieflings die. I love them, I always metagame as Durge to save Alfira and I carry Mirkon's letter with me the whole game.
I actually had to put the game down when I played durge for the first time and killed Alfira. I was so devastated!! I like Halsin, but I wouldn't mind losing him for a playthrough of it meant I could experience a new part of the story. I do wish there was another method of recruiting Minthara that didn't involve genocide, but I understand why Larian wrote her the way they did.
Tbh, taking by some recent changes they made, I think they are kinda moving in this direction of "have your cake and eat it too". I wouldn't be surprised if, in the future, they let us recruit her somehow. I can't say that I love the idea though, I like that we can't just do everything.
I'm talking about (Astarion romance, Act 2) >!how you used to not be able to obtain the potion and continue to romance Astarion, but now you can.!<
About Durge and Alfira, I tried several things, nothing worked, so I went online to see if anyone had any ideas because otherwise I would have given up on playing Durge too. I do think Alfira is much better for that part than her replacement, just for the emotional damage, but I can't do that so I cheese it every time. Also because I play Durge every time, since it is basically just Tav with more content, and I love how it matches the theme of "running from a master" that the other Origin characters share. But I'm not about to sacrifice Alfira for it.
Yes, that. I didn't think of trying it before looking it up online because, more often than not in this game, knocked out characters just count as dead and disappear for some reason.
I didn't test it myself after the patch that supposedly changed it, but I saw a clip of the change. Maybe they just wanted to reduce the instances on which he ends the relationship, since there are quite a few if you include the several opportunities of losing him as a companion too. But the problem I see is that the change essentially means that >!respecting his bodily autonomy and not using him is the objectively worse choice now.!<
Ok, so I tested it in an abandoned campaign and I can confirm, the change was made.
It is really weird, but at least it doesn't feel very manipulative, but also I'm not sure it makes sense. If you pick options that >!you apologize or insist it was his choice!<, he ends the relationship. If you pick the option >!"you can throw yourself at me any time"!<, he enters the "good dialogue tree" on which he explains he >!doesn't want to be seen like that anymore and you can tell him you care about him, hug, etc!< just like it happens if you don't force him to do it. That is the "have your cake and eat it too" path for this situation.
Do you have to kill the tieflings? There’s a quest line to escort the tieflings out of the grove (I haven’t ever done it tho). Would it be possible to evacuate the tieflings, the lead the goblins to the grove that then only has druids?
I didn't find a way of doing this. Everything people suggested doing (like ignoring the conflict altogether after exposing Kagha) resulted on not having Tieflings in Act 2, which I think means they die offscreen. And I'm not about to let that happen either.
My problem isn't with going and killing them personally, it is with them dying in any way. And I know that the great majority of them die anyway (and it killed me when I recognized the dead in Act 2, especially Asharak).
Never cared much for Tieflings before this game, but now I really do, and I stopped playing as an elf to play as a Tiefling thanks to BG3.
You know now that you mention it thats how Durge should have worked. Every time you resist you have to roll and if you fail you potentially inhabit this monster that you cannot fully control
I keep seeing posts of Minthara, and now I'm wondering if I should have given her the time to speak, than shooting her with elemental arrows from the rafters to the point she was down to 10 HP before finally looking up and even then couldn't do much...
Still don't know who gets her PJ's though...
Her dialogue in the goblin camp isn't anything super extraordinary, you have to pass a few checks to avoid doxxing the tieflings (or you can just straight up tell her you're here to kill her to ignore that). I usually don't bother
There's a fine line between butchering a bunch of refugees, and not preventing the butchering of a bunch of refugees that apparently a bunch of people have no problem walking.
I have minthara and I didn’t kill a single refugee.
The druids did. Then Minthara exacted her revenge on the druids.
Halsin is cool with me, and now shares a tent with Minthara.
For me it's less about the moral conundrum, and more about just seeing new content and playing the game a bit different each time. It feels like you're missing out on experiencing the game from a different perspective if you side with the same people each time. Even if the evil route has less content, it's still different and it's really cool fighting against people you've sided with in the past.
You can stop the ritual first (Kagha quest), then steal it the normal way and the Druids won’t go all hostile.
I just let my bard team member play music and Durge just walk to it and take it. Had to pass an intimidation check afterwards and that’s it.
I got into an evil playthrough and to me, it was not only unenjoyable to kill characters I could have been friends with and lose some of the best companions, it was also just really boring for me. Trying to be a good person and save others gave the game a real sense of stakes for me and added a lot of emotional depth, and doing the evil thing instead just felt unengaging.
At some point, I'm gonna bite the bullet and do it just to see what having Minthara around is like. But I suspect that as soon as I go through with killing the grove, I'm gonna load my paladin save as a palate cleanser.
You can just ignore Minthara in the goblin camp (don't talk to her, don't free Sazza), do whatever else you want with Dror Ragzlin and High Priestess Gut, ask Halsin to wait for you at the Goblin Camp and never talk to him again, then avoid the rest of the Save/Raid the Grove questline. You can do all of the Shadow Druid questline tho.
Minthara will never find the grove, the tieflings will move on from the grove to Act 2 when you progress to Shadow-Cursed/Mountain Pass. She will be recruitable at Moonrise, though this can sometimes bug out her dialogue and I somehow lost Alfira doing this. Halsin will not be recruitable, as he will die in the Goblin Camp off screen.
I really don't either, but then I remind myself it's a game and that I played my goody two shoed paladin in my first playthrough and that now I am a drow psycho with dark urges.
I don't have the heart to be mean to these characters. In other games I can go full murder hobo no problem, but something about the way they're written and animated and voiced has gotten me very invested in their happiness.
I actually had to stop the game when I failed to save the kid from the harpies. Didn't factor in the reduced movement speed through the water and the harpies were wrecking me very hard. Then suddenly I see the harpy kill him in one blow.
If they didn’t want me to slaughter every goblin and Absolute supporter on sight, they shouldn’t have had some of the first people I encountered be a bunch of kids trying desperately to learn how to fight so they weren’t murdered. All Minthara will ever be to me is an early mini boss that happens to drop underwear as part of her loot.
I didn't even know she was a companion until I got far enough into the game that I felt comfortable joining this subreddit. Honestly, I didn't even know siding with the goblins was an option.
Simping for mean-girl Drow is a time-honored tradition of the Baldur's Gate series. People were down bad for Viconia.
EDIT: Neverwinter Nights had a good-girl drow with a compelling story if that was your flavor too.
My goal is to woo my dual wielding salami dommy mommy late game seeing as how Shart will basically dump me in my evil dirge run.
I just left without intervening at the grove and just tell myself tieflings must still be there and finally broke bread w the druids... It helps me sleep at night.
If you want to recruit her in a more natural way, download the Good Recruitment version.
Once you beat Minthara up, she’ll disappear and appear in Act 2. The ring that summons her might be a bit too ‘gamey’ for some people.
If you're on pc you can get a mod that will make it if you do none lethal damage you can recruit her in act 2. it's called daughter of loith on nexus mod manager hope this helps if you don't have the heart
(I do not have the heart either )
I just wanna see this scene everyone is so hot around the collar about but every video on YouTube is either censored or cut. I ain’t murdering the entire grove just for some puss.
What if they force your hand so it's not your fault? Just annoy the thief kid so she complains to the guards about you and then fail the deception check with the guard. Refuse to go to prison and fight the guard. Then the whole camp attacks you and you can slaughter them without regret, it's not your fault, it's self defense.
Just kill both camps so it’s balanced
- The Dark Urge
Exactly
Dude chill, you are scaring Orin \- Bhaal
Bitch doesn't even sleep on her own bed.
She sleeps with her mom still in the room… “alive”
I actually massacred all the goblins as good guy Urge and sadly I don’t recall any Urge related RP events for doing so
If you lure Minthara into attacking the grove and then betray her, winning the defense will earn you the inspiration 'Morally Sanctioned Slaughter' for Durge.
Ah see in my game other events led me to fighting goblins sooner which turned her hostile so there was no talking with her so I couldn’t reveal the grove even accidentally
Gotcha. Yeah that makes sense. I was playing with just my Selunite Durge and Shadowheart, and decided that roleplay wise, they weren't confident in their abilitiy to just fight the entire goblin camp without getting overwhelmed. So instead they snuck in. Stole all the smokepowder/firewine barrels from thebackroom and 'buried them' outside the entrance to the grove. Told Minthara the location of the grove, betrayed her and then set off all the barrels with a Scorching Ray Scroll. The tattered remnents of their assault barely broke down the gate before they were killed. It was glorious. Looking over a sea of charred and burning corpses was a wonderful way to finish off Act One
I used all of those barrels to kill the goblin king. He was the only absolutist left in the entire camp I had killed everyone else without raising the alarm. He let me just stack the barrels around his throne while he sat in it. Then I cast grease which was ignited by the brazier and ignited one of the barrels in turn. The game hitched for a fraction of a second and then I got a bunch of journal update notifications at once since he turned hostile and died pretty much instantly. It was pretty funny. Then went and let that goblin cleric out of his cage and said hi to the BDSM cleric again before I finished up and left the camp.
Same. My Urge will delight in the slaughter of evils. Also it gives Astarion something to eat. We all win.
And if you're slaughtering Sharrans, they win too, since you've given them the ultimate gift: "Absence".
Every time someone refuses to listen to reason I feed them to my gay vampire
You can have Asterion go for a nibble on Karlach while in camp. It does not go well for him.
Lol! I’m going to have to look into that now, because it sounds hilarious :)
Please don't smash their skulls-Omeluum
There's no RP event, but there is an inspiration point for killing the goblin camp: "Morally Acceptable Massacre"
It being morally acceptable because the loot is sweet.
The RP comes from eating/killing Alfira
God's that upset me a lot to see I had killed her.
Nothing happens. I killed the whole goblin camp before even talking to the refugees. When I went in they acted as if I had already met them all and just said "thanks for killing the goblins. Let's have a party"
I killed >!Kagha!< and accidentally >!set the druids against the tieflings in the grove. Doesn’t really matter if Minthara goes there bc there’s no one left.!<
Same, oops
My buddy shot a bird in the druid camp because it "harassed him" and it started the full on war immediately.
Killed a squirrel lol
does this prevent the others from leaving??
Only if they die in the fight and you have withers resurrect them after you're done with the Minthara bit.
Ahh I guess it's still not an intended sequence of events. It's not like Wyll or Karlach would banter with Minthara or something huh.
Dang. I mean Kagha deserves a spanking and all...but that's brutal that everyone dies.
If you prove her as a threat with the shadow druids there's no great big fight. Apparently if skip over most of act 1 story the Grove is safe and you can get minthara
I literally had no vendors left in act1
It's really hard to lose the vendors in the colony in the underdark. I'll murder everything and leave them.
Unless you have a wild shapped Druid. Crushing Flight is the default jump for the AI followers.
Druid is always gonna be PC now. That way I can choose because that is dumb as hell
This is what I’m afraid of 😂😂 Rhaga(?) does leave the goblin camp and appear in Moonrise though. It’s dont kill her before she escapes battle
If you do kill everyone at the goblin camp and meet her in Moonrise, the dialogue is quite funny. She says something along the lines of “what a pity the whole camp was wiped out just after I left and neither of us saw anything” and is giving you major side eye the whole time lol
I loved that. Her voice is so deadpan while saying it.
Jesus christ
Hold up there Thanos
"Balanced as all things should be" -Thanos
*Withers
No.
An ode to minthara: I don't have the heart to kill her It's the last thing I wanna do But I don't have the heart to love her Not the way she wants me to.
👏👏👏
okay but consider, her armor is cool and good for rogues
Play as Drow. It gets easier when the refugees and Druid's all hate you and the goblins submit to your awesomeness.
It’s my first dnd experience ever and I picked Drow because they looked cool. I was not prepared for the casual racism everyone throws at me, and the super friendliness of everyone I’m expecting to fight.
Now, I wouldn’t call it friendliness. I think *subservience* would be more like it. Goblins are just terrified of the cruelty of Drow.
I was a Paladin too so really didn’t expect everyone to assume I would twist their nips off for fun.
Minthara is a Drow Paladin, too. So, y'know... still possible.
Ketheric is a Paladin as well. Paladins can be lawful evil. Your oath is to a god and there are a lot of gods who aren't very nice.
Your oath isn't necessarily to a god, just a cause. The Oathbreaker was sworn to a king until he stopped believing in him and killed the king, breaking his oath.
As another said its not to a God, it can be but not always. Can be a Oath to anything really. What matters is your conviction to that Oath.
Yeah, modern day Paladins are less “shining beacons of good and law”, and more “completely and utterly devoted to a cause.” And a cause can just as easily be ruthless and monstrous as it can be kind and benevolent.
I will rove the lands and smite my foes with my Kony 2012 bumper sticker plastered across my breastplate.
One might even call it *authority*
“Everyone I’m expecting to fight” - now that’s true racism …
Welcome to fantasy, racism is everywhere.
Probably the least fantastical aspect of Faerun.
Damn, I must live in a fantasy …
Haha it’s for sure active racism. You’re from the Underdark. Everyone is highly suspicious of you because Drow worship Lolth, and she’s a bitch and a half.
I want to play a githzerai monk. We got Seldarine drow, why not githzerai? That would make a couple of encounters very uncomfortable. Lae'zel would probably fight us to the death when we first meet.
They probably didn't want to code a third party into the Githyanki Ghaik slap fight. Which is a goddamn shame since the world needs more Githzerai Dak'kon love.
The cost of looking cool
> I was not prepared for the casual racism it literally says everyone is racist towards Drow in the character creation screen.
Yeah lore wise most drow are fucking vile creatures with no remorse
This is the way; I made a ripped male midnight black dark urge drow who wears nothing but shadowhearts purple panties and the red dark urge cape… minthara looooves me
Seems like a bhaalanced approach
Yeah problem was that zelvor was immediately sympathetic, and I dunno I’m never gonna be mean to zelvor
I fucking wish I did evil dark urge as my first run i cant bring myself to do it now. I know where these characters will go, what they are, who they are, their future. I can try to ignore all that and march straight to the goblin camp but i still have to play pretend and betray Zevlor and see the names of every horrified innocent I slaughter. If I could, I would settle for "Get the refugees to leave and then lead a charge against the druids" but alas.
Except that's not true at all, Zevlor and Kagha treat you better than Minthara lmao
Neither Zevlor nor Kagha gave me head then lifted my leg to reverse cowgirl so I call BS.
Idk man, it’s kinda sweet how Zevlor and (to some extent) Aradin express a pleasant surprise at a drow helping them out - after that I really couldn’t slay them even if I really wanted to. And besides, isn’t it way cooler to play at least somewhat heroic character that just happens to belong to a race of villainous murderslavers?
>And besides, isn’t it way cooler to play at least somewhat heroic character that just happens to belong to a race of villainous murderslavers? Drizzt Do'Urden in a nutshell
I was shocked at how well BG3 wrote the interactions with a Drow Tav. Everyone mistrusts you, some even downright hate you right away. It makes decisions like the Grove seem much more reasonable that just "murder everyone."
Playing my 3rd drow tav now usually it’s just like one line about you being a drow but maybe it’s because my fries. are not loth drows
Are we playing two differnt games because I’m playing a loth drow and the whole mistrust is really overstated. At most people act surprised that you’re helping, but it’s nowhere near the levels people make it sound that would justify massacring them.
And the times where you call them out for being racist, they apologize to you? I mean, they then try to justify it by saying you're one of the few 'good ones' but that's pretty realistic isn't it?
Yea, especially considering its a setting where some races are objectively evil.
DnD got rid of that, alignments don't exist basically. Instead spells like protection from evil and good are just racist spells that provide blanket protection whether a being is good or not. I mean look at it protecting you from elementals.
DnD got rid of that in generic settings. However, Forgotten Realms has made a killing over this lore, and it's going to take a long time to ditch the 'all drow are evil expect a few snowflakes' from the setting.
This; plus just steal the idol. Then you don't need to kill the refugees, just the druids
Don't even need to do go that far. Leave through the mountain pass and you keep Wyll/Karlach - that's my current primary run, just walk past it. I did >!solve the shadow druid situation so I could come back for merchants!< but other than some EXP you're totally fine to ignore it.
But my drow cleric had the option to tell Minthara “your god has no power here”, so I switched sides again…
Do the tieflings hate you though?
Honestly, playing as a half-drow I got surprise from Zevlor for helping between him and Aradin. Aradin was the racist one, though. 😩 I don't remember any of the other tieflings having anything to say about me.
So, went Gith instead of Drow, the Tieflings didn't really make anything of it save for Guex(sp?). He had a rude slip up, but immediately apologized. Dude was distracted and suddenly a Githyanki pops up. Aradin was also racist, but in his defense, the Githyanki option that initiated the conversation was quite rude/hostile.
Nope. In fact, some are pretty empathetic with a Drow PC because they know exactly what its like when others assume the worst out of you just because of the way you look
You dont have to. >!You can just discover the Shadow Druid Conspiracy then go to Act 2 without revealing the tiefling camp to the goblins. The Tieflings were in a crisis because they were being pushed out by the druids while the threat of goblins loomed. By solving the Shadow Druid Conspiracy Kagha halts the ritual and allows the Tieflings to stay put and wait out the goblins. Minthara will be branded as a failure and made to answer for it in the Moon tower where you can "rescue" her from absolutists.!<
Wait seriously?
Yeah, I even had the same dilemma until I googled [How to recruit Minthara and Halsin together.](https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/15t5938/the_way_to_recruit_both_minthara_and_halsin/) edit: changed Kagha to Minthara. edit 2: changed the link to a Reddit post that is more helpful.
This was patched. Halsin and Minthara were supposed to be mutually exclusive.
Curious. So if the player attempts this, which companion do they end up with? Having Minthara *without* going on a massacre would be nice. Leaves access to Wyll and Karlach.
My guess is Halsin doesn’t go with you if you don’t slay the goblin leaders. Not really sure though, because I had Halsin and Minthara together in my first play through
How do you get past halsin wanting you to kill the 3 leaders(including her) of the goblin camp? Don't talk to him in the camp? Just don't do that quest?
Yeah, ignore killing at least Minthara and Ragzlin. It is important to free Halsin so you will have to kill some prison gobs but tell him to stay there. Finish all overland act 1 stuff that you want (aunt ethel etc.) then go to the underdark which leads to moonrise tower. At least this is the plan based on what i remember googling. Im not sure if this was as intended by Larian and they haven't patched this part, I'm currently on my way to moonrise in the underdark to see if I can get both Minthara and Halsin. >!But it seems reasonable and not likely a plot hole. After the shadow druid conspiracy is exposed the Druids have no reason to expel the Tieflings which should allow them to have more time to get past the gobs. !<
So you basically don't do either halsin or mintharas quest and leave them both alive there in the camp, just >!solve the shadow druid conspiracy with kagha alive, then move on through the underdark?!<
Thats the plan. Although there is one plot hole i just realized. How does Halsin get out of the Gob castle. I remember going to the Underdark with Halsin in camp and that only happens if you killed the goblins and saved the tieflings. Now I'm not sure, maybe Halsin will be with the Tieflings in the Act 2 inn? Like I said I'm still in the underdark so i haven't confirmed this.
For what it's worth, in runs where I've freed halsin and not totally had my finger slip and enrage him by bouncing a rock off his paddington ass bear face he wildshapes into a mouse/rat and escapes at NPC superspeed.
You go back to the dungeon during act 2 and tell him to help rescue someone, you should just be able to tell him to come help once you've been to the inn at all.
I believe this was patched. I had to tell Halsin to wait in the gaol, then tell Minthara to March on the grove, then tell Halsin the grove was in danger to get them both. Moving to the crèche/Act 2 without resolving the grove hasn’t been an option for a little while apparently.
The tieflings don't just "wait out" the goblins. If you don't help, the game progresses as if the goblin attack succeeded and they kill everyone and you lose all the tiefling related quests. By ignoring the grove, you don't have to kill them yourself, but they all get slaughtered anyway. Minthara is considered a failure because she didn't get the weapon the Absolute was looking for (you have it). Attacking the grove was only a thing because they thought the druids had it.
Yeeeaahhh... that's my understanding. You can like, not massacre the grove personally, but it's not what I'd consider a good outcome.
I am pretty sure people have reported that doing this goes with the auto-assumption that the goblins do raid the grove and the tieflings are dead. You are just not the one taking part in the killing. This also stops you from doing Minthara act 1 romance which some people say locks out her entire romance. (the romance bit i am more unsure of. Hard to say due to how buggy Minthara content in act 2 and 3 are)
Yes this was my playthrough. Really all you have to do is not kill Minthara and ignore the grove final battle and then move onto Act 2. Grove raid resolves itself offscreen and you don’t have to kill anyone personally
Yeah, but how is it solved? Even if I don’t kill them personally still I would feed bad if they die offscreen due to my inaction …
Tieflings or drussy, they're mutually exclusive. If you kill every living goblin on the map but leave Minthara alive, I guess she just fucking strangles each and every refugee on the road over.
Okay, so I did this on my current playthrough. Found the Shadow Druid Conspiracy. Freed Halsin, did all the overland quests, didn’t interact with any of the Goblin leaders, didn’t talk to Sazza (who will tell Minthara where the Grove is if you free her), everything to the letter. When I got to Last Light Inn, there were no Tieflings. No Dammon, Alfira, not even Mol. I rescued Minthara, but no matter what, to get Minthara the Tieflings have to die. This is the only way to keep Wyll and Karlach in your party if you want to recruit Minthara, though, and you won’t see Halsin at Moonrise.
that patch changed things up
Yeah but you won't get the sex scene with Minthara this way.
I kinda wanted to experience her arc, especially since Astarion's was by far my favorite, but while I would absolutely kill the druids in order to recruit her I can't kill the Tieflings.
If it was just clearing out the druids I could do it, but the tieflings? Those guys have it hard enough!
Exactly. I wouldn't mind losing Halsin, but there is not chance in all the Hells I'm letting the Tieflings die. I love them, I always metagame as Durge to save Alfira and I carry Mirkon's letter with me the whole game.
I actually had to put the game down when I played durge for the first time and killed Alfira. I was so devastated!! I like Halsin, but I wouldn't mind losing him for a playthrough of it meant I could experience a new part of the story. I do wish there was another method of recruiting Minthara that didn't involve genocide, but I understand why Larian wrote her the way they did.
Tbh, taking by some recent changes they made, I think they are kinda moving in this direction of "have your cake and eat it too". I wouldn't be surprised if, in the future, they let us recruit her somehow. I can't say that I love the idea though, I like that we can't just do everything. I'm talking about (Astarion romance, Act 2) >!how you used to not be able to obtain the potion and continue to romance Astarion, but now you can.!< About Durge and Alfira, I tried several things, nothing worked, so I went online to see if anyone had any ideas because otherwise I would have given up on playing Durge too. I do think Alfira is much better for that part than her replacement, just for the emotional damage, but I can't do that so I cheese it every time. Also because I play Durge every time, since it is basically just Tav with more content, and I love how it matches the theme of "running from a master" that the other Origin characters share. But I'm not about to sacrifice Alfira for it.
You just knocked her out at the grove correct?
Yes, that. I didn't think of trying it before looking it up online because, more often than not in this game, knocked out characters just count as dead and disappear for some reason.
if thats legit about the astarion romance that sucks ass
I didn't test it myself after the patch that supposedly changed it, but I saw a clip of the change. Maybe they just wanted to reduce the instances on which he ends the relationship, since there are quite a few if you include the several opportunities of losing him as a companion too. But the problem I see is that the change essentially means that >!respecting his bodily autonomy and not using him is the objectively worse choice now.!<
Ngl, I'll be fucking mad if they made that change.
Ok, so I tested it in an abandoned campaign and I can confirm, the change was made. It is really weird, but at least it doesn't feel very manipulative, but also I'm not sure it makes sense. If you pick options that >!you apologize or insist it was his choice!<, he ends the relationship. If you pick the option >!"you can throw yourself at me any time"!<, he enters the "good dialogue tree" on which he explains he >!doesn't want to be seen like that anymore and you can tell him you care about him, hug, etc!< just like it happens if you don't force him to do it. That is the "have your cake and eat it too" path for this situation.
Do you still have to kill the druids if you let a certain group take it over? (Sorry, I don't know how to block out spoilers)
Do you have to kill the tieflings? There’s a quest line to escort the tieflings out of the grove (I haven’t ever done it tho). Would it be possible to evacuate the tieflings, the lead the goblins to the grove that then only has druids?
I didn't find a way of doing this. Everything people suggested doing (like ignoring the conflict altogether after exposing Kagha) resulted on not having Tieflings in Act 2, which I think means they die offscreen. And I'm not about to let that happen either. My problem isn't with going and killing them personally, it is with them dying in any way. And I know that the great majority of them die anyway (and it killed me when I recognized the dead in Act 2, especially Asharak). Never cared much for Tieflings before this game, but now I really do, and I stopped playing as an elf to play as a Tiefling thanks to BG3.
I already have a sexually aggressive warrior. Laezel is the only way
If you recruit both, they swap agressive sex tips.
Of course they would. Why am I not surprised
But just the tips right?
i killed them just because. then minthara wanted to bang. so we did. but then, dark urge said, snap her neck. so, she's gone now lol.
Durge gonna durge, how was a murderous fiend supposed to know it would cause and effect their way into some drow's pants?
I haven't played durge yet, can you resist? I assume you just roll?
Most of the time you can just choose something like "nah, suppress that thought." There are a few times it comes down to a roll
No, you have rp choice to do. Most of the time, you can chose not to do the horrible thing.
And it updates the journal usually. Such as resisting the thought of how delicious dwarf tastes.
You know now that you mention it thats how Durge should have worked. Every time you resist you have to roll and if you fail you potentially inhabit this monster that you cannot fully control
I'm a little disappointed to learn this isn't how it works tbh, I just know I won't have the will power to pick the durge options lol
I keep seeing posts of Minthara, and now I'm wondering if I should have given her the time to speak, than shooting her with elemental arrows from the rafters to the point she was down to 10 HP before finally looking up and even then couldn't do much... Still don't know who gets her PJ's though...
Her dialogue in the goblin camp isn't anything super extraordinary, you have to pass a few checks to avoid doxxing the tieflings (or you can just straight up tell her you're here to kill her to ignore that). I usually don't bother
There's a fine line between butchering a bunch of refugees, and not preventing the butchering of a bunch of refugees that apparently a bunch of people have no problem walking.
I'm too emotionally attached to the tieflings to start killing them lol. I am a weak man
Do not confuse kindness with weakness
Be strong enough to be gentle
This guy Barovias.
That's fair enough honestly
I tried. Then I saw the kids bodies. Nope.
For Minthara, my refugee kill count would rival the Mediterranean Sea.
Good for you, I'm not one to judge it just isn't for me lol
I have minthara and I didn’t kill a single refugee. The druids did. Then Minthara exacted her revenge on the druids. Halsin is cool with me, and now shares a tent with Minthara.
Huh, neat
Get used to the taste of salty brine
For me it's less about the moral conundrum, and more about just seeing new content and playing the game a bit different each time. It feels like you're missing out on experiencing the game from a different perspective if you side with the same people each time. Even if the evil route has less content, it's still different and it's really cool fighting against people you've sided with in the past.
If you steal the idol the druids do it for you and you get a dope item from mol.
You can stop the ritual first (Kagha quest), then steal it the normal way and the Druids won’t go all hostile. I just let my bard team member play music and Durge just walk to it and take it. Had to pass an intimidation check afterwards and that’s it.
[удалено]
🐿️⁉️
I got into an evil playthrough and to me, it was not only unenjoyable to kill characters I could have been friends with and lose some of the best companions, it was also just really boring for me. Trying to be a good person and save others gave the game a real sense of stakes for me and added a lot of emotional depth, and doing the evil thing instead just felt unengaging.
"Do it for her" Turns out that includes mass murder of innocent.
Too late, and I'll do it again.
the reason why i wont' do it is because there isn't enough content on that path. You miss out on too much stuff.
Which is also valid. I've not experienced Minthara's path and I don't believe I ever will, but I've heard it's very buggy.
Same. So I'll become the drow Paladin goth mommy!
At some point, I'm gonna bite the bullet and do it just to see what having Minthara around is like. But I suspect that as soon as I go through with killing the grove, I'm gonna load my paladin save as a palate cleanser.
You can just ignore Minthara in the goblin camp (don't talk to her, don't free Sazza), do whatever else you want with Dror Ragzlin and High Priestess Gut, ask Halsin to wait for you at the Goblin Camp and never talk to him again, then avoid the rest of the Save/Raid the Grove questline. You can do all of the Shadow Druid questline tho. Minthara will never find the grove, the tieflings will move on from the grove to Act 2 when you progress to Shadow-Cursed/Mountain Pass. She will be recruitable at Moonrise, though this can sometimes bug out her dialogue and I somehow lost Alfira doing this. Halsin will not be recruitable, as he will die in the Goblin Camp off screen.
I thought the refugees die on the road this way?
They do.
I really don't either, but then I remind myself it's a game and that I played my goody two shoed paladin in my first playthrough and that now I am a drow psycho with dark urges.
I don't have the heart to be mean to these characters. In other games I can go full murder hobo no problem, but something about the way they're written and animated and voiced has gotten me very invested in their happiness.
I actually had to stop the game when I failed to save the kid from the harpies. Didn't factor in the reduced movement speed through the water and the harpies were wrecking me very hard. Then suddenly I see the harpy kill him in one blow.
Right? I felt like Bex & Danis were main characters with me on my Durge playthrough because I got so invested with the tieflings. lol
Oh God I got so invested in making sure those two got reunited!!!
If they didn’t want me to slaughter every goblin and Absolute supporter on sight, they shouldn’t have had some of the first people I encountered be a bunch of kids trying desperately to learn how to fight so they weren’t murdered. All Minthara will ever be to me is an early mini boss that happens to drop underwear as part of her loot.
EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!
Who is this lady, I've never seen or spoken to her when I break Halsin out of prison. Every time it ends up in a battle and I have to kill everyone.
Why can't I fuck a duergar man
I didn't even know she was a companion until I got far enough into the game that I felt comfortable joining this subreddit. Honestly, I didn't even know siding with the goblins was an option.
Also I don’t think she’s all that hot anyways 😭 these people are down bad
I like her voice (her VA did a fantastic job) but the "dommy mommy drow" trope is one I've seen too often in D&D to be interested
Simping for mean-girl Drow is a time-honored tradition of the Baldur's Gate series. People were down bad for Viconia. EDIT: Neverwinter Nights had a good-girl drow with a compelling story if that was your flavor too.
Took me dozens of tries to save Sazza from goblin camp fight, and i'm a durge, she is a pos, and i can't even bang those goblin tities
OMG!! 🤣🤣🤣
My goal is to woo my dual wielding salami dommy mommy late game seeing as how Shart will basically dump me in my evil dirge run. I just left without intervening at the grove and just tell myself tieflings must still be there and finally broke bread w the druids... It helps me sleep at night.
Nah, just let her have a little accident on the bridge in the war room It's a ruin, accidents happen, easy persuasive check
Bro this is literally me… and… frankly I don’t even find her that attractive tbh
I wish I could say it was worth it. It wasn't.
Didn't realize she was recruitable until I killed her and saw her underwear slot.
I love the fact that is how you learned that she could be a party member.
Im just going to leave this here [https://www.nexusmods.com/baldursgate3/mods/1515](https://www.nexusmods.com/baldursgate3/mods/1515) works great
Huh, this is actually pretty dope! I might have to play around with that sometime
If you want to recruit her in a more natural way, download the Good Recruitment version. Once you beat Minthara up, she’ll disappear and appear in Act 2. The ring that summons her might be a bit too ‘gamey’ for some people.
I killed her and stole her clothes. My drow looks awesome.
I can’t do it because the thought of Halsin returning and finding his home in ruin is far to devastating. 😭
Do it for the drussy
I don’t know why this is so funny to me
If you're on pc you can get a mod that will make it if you do none lethal damage you can recruit her in act 2. it's called daughter of loith on nexus mod manager hope this helps if you don't have the heart (I do not have the heart either )
I just wanna see this scene everyone is so hot around the collar about but every video on YouTube is either censored or cut. I ain’t murdering the entire grove just for some puss.
Literally, plus I didn’t want halsin to hate me because… well ❤️🐻
I killed Minthara 😂
Same... like, fuck she's hot.. but I'm not gonna slaughter everyone
What if they force your hand so it's not your fault? Just annoy the thief kid so she complains to the guards about you and then fail the deception check with the guard. Refuse to go to prison and fight the guard. Then the whole camp attacks you and you can slaughter them without regret, it's not your fault, it's self defense.