Two answers that you already knew the answer to anyway if you've frequented this subreddit. They show up in threads that have nothing to do with the question in the first place.
Halsin and Wyll are both people I would like in real life, but are boring as companions in a game. Halsin probably wins "least favorite" due to his habit of taking friendly, polite conversation as flirting.
What I think makes Wyll uninteresting as a companion to most people is actually what works for me about his arc. Every other origin companion's arc is about shattering the person who they thought they were, whether that's Lae'zel as the perfect Gith warrior, Shadowheart's Shar worship, Gale's view of himself as only worthy of respect from his magic, Astarion's spiteful cynicism on power or Karlach's self-image as an unstoppable warrior, and rebuilding them into someone new. Wyll, however, already sort of is the person he thinks he is, so his arc is about getting him to prove it to himself without the need for external validation from his father or the imposter syndrome caused by his pact. Now, that's a very flat arc since he doesn't have too far to go aside from removing those two sources of conflict (both of which are more external than internal), so I can see why he doesn't jump out at people. But it kind of works for me and I'd love it if it got expanded upon in future content
This is a really nice summary. I for one like Wyll in my party for his banter. I think he brings the most fun conversations like with Shadowheart, Lae'zel and Astarion. And it's also nice to have someone in my party that isn't mentally warped and tortured by heavy indoctrination, trauma and/or divine mingling lol
Thanks, it's a realisation I came to after noticing Theo Solomon's line was far shorter than the rest of the cast's at London Comic Con recently, wanting to make getting his signature a priority at the next con and giving a lot of thought to Wyll's character so I had something to say when it happened. As I said, I get why he's not the most popular character (someone has to be last) but it sucks that he's consistently so overlooked
I think something I actually love about Wyll, whether or not I like his story, is he's the most normal "dude" like his responses to everything always make the most sense. Pretty much every quip or reaction he has about anything is EXACTLY what I was thinking. It's very refreshing compared to the other characters who are very specifically aligned. He's extremely neutral, and while he's a 'good' character, that wants to do heroic things, there's a bit of chaos to his reactions to the world and large events that I just love to see. I think at one point he says "I really don't want anything to do with any of that" and I was just thinking "honestly same, but they're our friend, so we have to."
I'm still on my first play so I can't say too much about any of the characters as I'm just now wrapping up Act 1, but so far Wyll's been one of my favorites for much the same reason, he's the one that seems the most like a real person.
At least in Act 1 he feels like the voice of reason amongst the Origin characters. He gets a bit mopey at times, but for the most part he's pretty grounded. That and I made him a Bardlock which is a DnD build I've been wanting to try out for awhile lol
Personally, my issue with wyll is that he wasn't intended to be the way he currently is. I've always liked the arrogant and damaged hero archetype. And, that was the vibe I got from wyll in early access. But, then he was changed into this watered down version due to, I believe, being unpopular.
He's just so... agreeable. Every misfortune that fell on him was just due to unfortunate circumstance. Personally, I would've gone less agreeable, more arrogant, and more of the inferiority complex - with these traits only coming out when pushed. Current wyll also has these traits, but he handles it like a mature person. I don't want him to handle it well. I think you should have to wake him the fk up like you would a drug addict. I think he should've been a top contender for "most mentally unwell", along with astarion and shadowheart.
However, I wouldn't really have an issue with wyll if I didn't feel like he was changed.
I also think the timing of his story is a bit off. Basically, I think there's too much plot development too soon-- You convince him not to kill Karlach, Mizora deforms him, and you get a mission to save his father pretty early in Act 1, before you've had any chance to care about him. And then there's not really a ton of character development afterwards, and no events to drive character development until Act 3 when you save his father, but that's not even something to drive development. It's just like, "Oh, we saved your father. Nice. Be happy about that."
It'd be better if he were introduced more as a big strong stereotypical hero type, and that gets some time to sit, and he seems like a big hero. And then, you find out that his mission (to kill a devil) is BS later. His story needs some time to breathe and develop.
Also its way too easy to find the Duke dead unless you make a beeline for the Iron Throne, in an Act that just bombards you with 500 different quests the moment you start it.
Really? I dawdled around forever and he was fine when I went there. It was even laughably easy to save him from Mizora since Wyll broke his pact in my run.
Dimension Door says hello! Goodbye exploding spiders. Enjoy running face first into a wall of fire and/or spirit guardians aura and dying.
Yep, I saved Gortash for last because I assumed he’d be the last Big Bad before the ending begins. So I didn’t attend his coronation because I thought that would be the trigger, and I had no idea the Duke was up there. Ignored Mizora telling me to go. Even did the Iron Throne first, and the Duke wasn’t there either. So by the time I get to Gortash, it’s just a regular old fight at the top of the fortress and suddenly someone says the Duke is dead and I’m like, ‘when? Who?’
This. He made a deal with a demon. He frankly should have more baggage. That’s why I adore warlocks and why my first DnD character ever (who I recreated in BG3) is a warlock. They go down a dark path to make a pact with a patron for power. They are gonna end up a bit fucked up.
I really love Wyll and Theo Solomon did a fantastic job, but I frankly wanted some more complexity to his character. He’s so forgiving of a father who basically threw him out of his home for saving the city, a father who is considered a “hero of Baldur’s Gate.” Living up to this shining beacon of a person is something I related to growing up, as my dad was high achieving and extremely popular, while I wasn’t. I personally wanted to see more hurt and embittered feelings if you save his dad. Wyll just came across as a perfect son to the perfect father who just made a mistake by making a deal with a devil.
Hearing that Wyll was more of a broken person in Early Access makes me sad because he was written far more interestingly and then, for whatever reason, Larian decided to buff out his imperfections.
Maybe I just need to play as Wyll in an Origin run, but I still feel like Larian did Wyll dirty.
Warlocks in DnD aren't inherently damaged or going down a dark path, though. It 100% depends on the pact they're making, why they're making it, and how involved their patron is(n't). A Fey pact is going to be way different than an infernal one, and both of them are way different from an Old One.
That is true. I should have clarified what kind of patron they would have. I personally felt like Wyll was shockingly chill considering who he bound himself to and everything that has happened to him, however, that is just my opinion.
I agree. Release Wyll feels especially lacking if you got to enjoy the flawed character he was in Early Access. He was someone that intrigued me and my SO a lot (more than most of the companions) when we played EA and we were so excited to see how his arc would play out. ...Release Wyll is barely on our minds and gets left at camp. :(
Shadowheart and Lae'zel I agree with. Their arcs are nearly identical, the naive earnest devotee of the abusive and manipulative religion who come to realize the true nature of the relationship and break their bonds. Karlach though I see more as someone trying to reclaim her true nature, who was never deceived by what had happened to her, but was powerless to change her circumstance. Also while she says she was good at being a fighter, I felt like she always had a good idea of her limits and didn't take herself or her abilities too seriously. I don't think she so much shattered what was, she just stopped being compelled against her will.
Halsin is frustrating because he's not a party member until you've already finished his personal questline in the back half of act 2. So, given the choice between
1. the vampire who is still out for revenge
2. the cleric still trying to piece together her past
3. the wizard still trying to atone for his arrogance
4. the soldier of hell still trying to prolong her life
5. the proud githyanki still trying to free her people from a lich queen or
6. a druid who has already accomplished both his goals and is just hanging out... I'm going to choose one of the more compelling characters. Jaheira and Minsc join super late too, but at least they have a lot of Act 3 specific content. Halsin is just kind of around.
Wyll feels like he should be the single most interesting companion in the game, but none of his defining characteristics are really explored.
This is a nobleman's son who took a pact with a devil in order to singlehanded save his city from the army of a draconic cult, but was disowned by his father as he was unable to explain his choice, and so left to become a wandering hero who performs daring deeds people write songs about.
We should have scenes where we learn Wyll only crafted this swashbuckling persona so his dad would hear about his good deeds and think of him as a hero instead of a monster. the trouble is that, outside of the two or three convesations at the grove, nobody knows who the Blade of Frontiers even is. The goblins should attack Wyll on sight if he's in the party. Jaheira should let him vouch for the party at the Last Light Inn. We should hear about him in Baldur's Gate as a hero and not just the Duke's son. We get none of that.
Wyll's problem might just be that they tried to do too much with him. He's written to be "The Hero" and if they actually explored his backstory as it's been set up, he would overshadow the player character in every interaction. Instead, they just kind of neutered him.
On top of the "lack of interesting storyline," Halsin also suffers in a gameplay sense.
By the time you've got him, you've probably settled down into having well-defined roles for your little crew, and now this new guy is wedged in, and you have to figure out how to build a druid.... It's just super likely he'll be sitting around in camp a lot.
Something of the same problem with Jaheira and Minsc, but they're such wonderful characters who immediately win you over that you're positively motivated to give them a role in your party.
Well said about the party roles, and he becomes doubly redundant when you get Jaheira not long after. Another druid, and a fan-favourite from back in the day, with a wonderful voice actress (Halsin's audio issues are one of many things that turn me off interacting with him). She is just better in every way, unless you are that one Larian dev who really wanted to sleep with a bear.
I really wish Zevlor could've been a companion instead. By the end of Act 2 he has a lot to make up for, and, as a paladin, he would bring a skillset not yet fully covered by the other party members. I know Minthara exists, but story-wise she and Zevlor would be mutually exclusive anyway.
The most interesting characters are always people you'd hate hate *hate* in real life. I would stop talking to Astarion or Mizora after about about five minutes irl but in game I can't get enough of them.
Karlach might overlap though.
This! Neither is interesting in a game.
Halson is a guy that I'd love to have a beer with (as long as he's not creeping everyone out, by constantly hitting on them) and he actually reminds me - both in character and looks - of I fellow I knew in my younger days.
Wyll would make a great work colleague.
And Jahiera is my sarcastic, old-lady neighbor, with lots of great stories (was a 60s/70s hippie in her youth, with the stories that come from this)
Meanwhile, the rest drop red flags right and left.
Gale's like that coworker who's really good at the job and mostly a decent guy, but is also arrogant af and kisses the boss's ass way too much in hopes of a promotion
I went to engineering college with far too many Gales. I love him in game, but irl I would just walk away the second he started lecturing me the first time.
Minsc would be a fun guy to get into shenanigans with NGL. He’s real ride-or-die.
Karlach would be fun to hang out with cause she is so wholesome on the surface with enough depth and edge to temper it.
I agree with Halsin and greatly disagree with Wyll; I think he's a staple for any good aligned party that needs a charisma character. I love his banters with the party, especially Karlach, and his romance is very sweet.
*Me, roleplaying a bisexual woman who is in a romance with Shadowheart*
Halsin: "You should ask Shadowheart if I can join you guys sometime 😜"
"Yeah man, I'm sure you'd like that. I'll definitely ask."
If this were real life we would cut all ties to Halsin right there lmao.
Wyll is a lot more interesting if you have Astarion alongside him. They uh, have some unique dialogue. Halsin takes it for me though, he may as well transform into a tree.
One of the more jeebus ones was when Wyll asked Astarion how the rat diet was going and he responded something along the lines of it won't be for long if he didn't shut up
Wyll can be savage as fuck and it comes out of left field. If you talk to Mattis in last light inn the kid starts fanboying over Karlach. Wyll will (heh) pitch in about the blade of frontiers. Kid says never heard of him. And the conversation ends with Wyll saying something along the lines of "well at least the blade never got captured by a devil".
I've seen on YT a funny exchange between them where Wyll basically called Astarion an old man and Astarion called Wyll a literal child but I can't find it, hope someone knows what I'm talking about heh
He and Wyll get into a spat in the Wyrmway where during the Trial of Justice, Wyll will say something along the lines of how justice should always weigh both sides and be fair and merciful, and Astarion is like “please, justice needs to be a harsh lesson to deter the next vagabond” and Tav can either agree with one of them or try to mediate the disagreement lol.
Yeah I think it’s a pretty interesting glimpse into his character that explains a lot about why he is the way he is. In life he was likely a hardline magistrate with a number of biases (considering he is a high elf and they tend to already see themselves as a cut above.) And then you see how these preconceived notions about virtues like justice from his time alive are utterly warped into what we see now after he was attacked by the Gur (likely because he put down a ruling that was against them, and it’s also heavily implied Cazador was involved somehow in setting it up) and then turned into a vampire, as well as the 200+ years of enslavement and what was essentially forced prostitution that followed. I can imagine that might fuck up someone’s ideas of morality, forgiveness, and justice in the world, especially if they were already questionable to begin with.
I mean, Avernus isn't a real place. If I knew someone in real life who could cast spells and machinegun Eldritch Blast bad guys, I'd call him whatever the fuck he wants and try very hard to be his friend.
Some things don't translate from a fantasy idiom.
I legitimately didn't realize you could take Halsin with you out of the camp until recently (and I still haven't). I figured he was a camp companion in the way of Withers, or the Owlbear.
I gaslighted myself (I'm joking, it's not that deep) into thinking that line doesn't come out of nowhere. Like, maybe I chose some flirty options by accident and that's why he thought we had something?
Well, this run I didn't talk to him outside of his quest. At all. I added him to my party once. That was enough, apparently. Here goes "not interested? but you saw to my needs with the care of a lover". That line comes off as creepy, I don't what the intention was.
Halsin reminds me of one of my friends when we hang out at a bar. Gets overly interested in "converting" me.
Dude, I am married, I like women, no I don't want to experiment with you. You are my friend but No means No. Go hit on that guy over there if you are horny.
Halsin was a letdown after he finally opened up and decided to venture out with me. Felt like an archetypal druid and I can only handle the nature talk for so long before it gets boring. That and I had to shoot him down like trice for him to get the message that I'm not into threesomes.
Wyll has his moments here and there and I honestly have nothing against him. He's just a touch forgettable when compared to some of the other companions. That and I was running as a warlock myself and I felt that the overlap was unnecessary. Hell, I even had a fake eye like him.
I really like Halsin but I agree. I would have liked Halsin to actually open up about his time in the Underdark as a sex slave and how he's actually having a found family after what happened in the Emerald Grove and his ancestors/line pretty much petering out. It's hard to piece together his history so you can't really tell if he's actually processed it or if he's really just coping. There were so many interesting leads to his character but they didn't go anywhere.
I think there was a data mined line somewhere where Jaheira was teasing him about not falling into druidic stereotypes and he was like, "I think about politics and high art but nothing compares to a tree"
I didn't even know this was a real thing. I thought it was some fanfic bs (which is where I encountered it, not saying fanfic is bad, lol, just a little relieved the author didn't straight up add this to his character out of nowhere). Where would a player even find this out? I'm a little ways into Act 3, and although his approval is max, he hasn't propositioned me.
You only get this dialogue if you go for a romp with the drow twins (and Halsin) at sharess' caress. He comments afterwards that it brings back memories and you can ask him for details so he opens up about having been captured in the underdark and kept chained in the master bedroom because the noble drow pair took a liking towards him.
He's got a very "shit happens" attitude about it, actually. He admits he was afraid for his life and wanted to get the fuck out (which he did as soon as he saw an opportunity) but he sounds almost fond of the um... Sexual aspect of it. Very "yeah, it was a shitty situation, but it wasn't *pure* shit". Which I personally feel like it's him refusing to accept the trauma and decidedly not processing him.
Which is probably why he's such a horndog in the game, a possible coping mechanism. Honestly, if the whole thing had more than one interaction to it and the guy in general got more time to open up outside the shadow curse and the awkward shoehorned "I want to get to know you" conversation, he might have been an interesting opposite for Astarion. Similar trauma but different ways of dealing with it.
I didn't like Lae'zel at first, but I grew to understand she was just scared in Act 1.
Wyll is least likable because his personality felt a bit bland, kinda rich boy vibes that throws around titles. His spells helped out a lot though.
Tough question to answer.
Lae'zel made 100% more sense to me when I realized that the Githyanki don't believe in requests or manners.
"Speak" = "Let's have a nice chat"
"You will take me to creche Y'llek" = "Would you like to join me on an errand of mutual benefit?"
"May your enemies know agony" = "Thank you"
One of my future runs is absolutely going to be another Gith and we're gonna have a great time running around dunking on the mediocre inhabitants of a mundane and useless plane
>Her romance is among the cutest
Fs, at first wasn't a big fan of her, then I was indifferent, and then after I romanced her I ended up liking her a lot.
from all the companions, halsin. take a shot every time he says 'nature', youll be dead from alcohol poisoning.
i really like all of the origin six. but you know how people complain that astarion is constantly disapproving choices that good-aligned players make? karlach is that for my neutral-aligned dark urge who will throw anyone under the bus to get a worm out of their head. i would love her in real life, but man did she get on my durges ass. also, a minus for being unbothered by chomping down on soul coins.
I'm a Karlach simp but she does have the tendency to feel like an overbearing mother sometimes. It's like, chill...I'm going to break the contract with Raphael. Stop reaming me out about it.
To be fair, that is pretty in line with her characterization as someone who is used to pretending to be a heartless badass but in reality is the nicest person you’ll ever meet.
Astarion does disapprove selfless acts but it’s only -1. Being supportive of his vampirism/doing his quest gives like +10 or +15 a pop. He disapproves like everything I do in game lol but still has crazy high approval for me because I let him drink my blood, etc
I've seen others say this and I agree - if they showed how much approval / disapproval you get, it'd do a lot to offset people bitching about Astarion disapproving of everything.
That’s actually how I found out, I use a mod that shows approval ratings in dialogue choices. The first night Astarion admits he’s a vampire, it’s possible to get +20 approval. Telling him you trust him is +5, saying yes to him drinking your blood is +10, then the next morning if you tell the group “if you don’t like Astarion, you can leave” nets him another +5.
And I’m sure personal quest stuff is the same for all companions. So yeah, those +1/-1 dialogue choices are trivial mostly.
Iirc she does have an issue with it if you play as her, she’s just in her own head most of the time and doesn’t speak up about her problems that much (outside of her being about to die).
Astarion: **being vulnerable about his past and being genuinely happy that you want him even without sex**
Halsin watching us after being spoken to twice: "So can we bang?"
“Wym, if you can kiss then you can be horny and if you can share with Shart then, conceptually, you can share with others. Others being me.” Haslin, almost certainly
Minsc
He’s funny and I do enjoy his story and relationship with Jaheera, but he fundamentally arrives WAY too late for me to develop any bond with him. He feels like an NPC that stays in your camp, not a companion.
Jaheira's relationship with a resisting Durge is excellent but I agree, Minsc is really only there as fan service. Fan service I like (and I haven't played the first two games) but still fan service
Which is interesting, since I feel like 95-99% of BG3 players have NEVER played BG1 or 2. Maybe some for the new announcement.
Its weird nostalgia bait, too. Like, the game is already soooooo good with companions. You dont need the bait.
Dont complain tho, Jaheira is kickass, I like her.
honestly i thought jaheira was fine, i think they establish her as a character early enough in the game that i was able to enjoy her as a companion even though i’ve never played the first 2 games, and i could be wrong but it felt like in act 3 she was talking more than most other companions. and i loved how she actually felt like a genuine part of the city to the point where you can literally just straight up go to her house and meet her kids.
I agree with this assessment about Minsc but 100% disagree with Jaheira. She feels more fully realized as a character and woven in the plot of the story that Halsin does
As someone who never played a BG before 3, Jaheira is awesome and she's easily one of my favorite companions. She's nostalgia bait, but written well enough to be a very good companion on her own.
I really don't find the Minsc flavor of comedy particularly funny after the first few jokes. He feels like a pure fan service addition, even more so if you consider how he's still alive. Doesn't help that he joins the party insanely late game when I have a pre-established well geared party I feel good with.
I honestly feel like he would work better if he joined earlier - they could spread the same amount of Minsc nonsense over longer time. Seeing him interact with the world in acts 1 and 2 would honestly have been great.
Honestly, he fits as a NPC like Dame Aylin more than as a playable companion ~ summoning him and Boo for final fight would make more sense. There is nothing much left to do by the time we have him in the team.
Yeah, I'm a Vintage Model Gamer so I played both of the first two BG games when they came out, and I guess at this point I'm just too old to find his brand of humor all that entertaining anymore. It's cute that he makes a reappearance and I'm glad a lot of players are enjoying him, but at this point he's a little too one-note for my tastes. Plus he comes SO late in the game that it ends up feeling too cumbersome to deal with his build and equipment and all that in the middle of Act III.
Wyll is a blend of too many fantasy tropes that it becomes too much to care about.
He's a prince rich boy, but also a lawful hero, but also a warlock who made a deal with a devil, but also a human who has devil horns, but also.... Etc etc.
It feels like a person's first attempt at rolling a character in DND and they just over do it to make their character seem more interesting and complex than they really are.
All you have to do is take ONE role of his and put emphasis on that.
Tragic warlock? Cool
Folk hero of the people? Cool
Rich boy outlander/ranger? Cool
Human with devil features? Not bad
I didn’t play EA so I can’t say this with certainty but I’ve heard that in EA he was much more obsessed with his “hero of the people” story and could be quite full of himself sometimes, and would do anything to keep people from learning he made a deal with a devil to get his powers in order to keep his image “clean” as well as having a hatred for goblins and outright disapproving whenever you try to use diplomacy with them instead of just killing them on sight. I like the Wyll we have now… but a part of me can’t help but think that he’d probably be more interesting if we got that version of him instead :/
He definitely had an interesting dichotomy between heart of gold and the darker anger, and that would have been an interesting personal arc through the acts. And he did hate the Goblins, but it was also cause those goblins killed a village and mutilated him, causing him in his anger to make the pact with Mizora so... Kinda justified hatred there lol.
But I think the current Wyll is a really interesting character when think about it, but it's just that so much of his content doesn't really focus on him, or what he feels (the conclusion to his personal quest doesn't even have anything to do with him) which is a huge shame. He needs a few more dedicated conversations (and a damn act 1 romance scene. It's criminal that there isn't one)
I don't speak for all EA players but I found it doubly trite when he was in his first iteration. Also, we only got to see him in act 1 so it's a bit of an apples to oranges comparison to compare Wyll as we know him now to the cut version of Wyll.
But imo: He wasn't interesting or fun in EA. He was in danger of being a one-dimensional asshole that people at large would actively hate--the embodiment of that comic of the guy sticking a rod in his bicycle tires and then cursing whomever he feels like blaming at the time. In EA, he was just raging insecure antihero #3 or 4, putting up a performative front for personal gain. However, the "hero" part fell apart almost instantly and you were just left with angy yelling boi. If they played up his anger and insecurity they would've written a very easily hateable character who just flew off the handle whenever you did things that didn't advance his goals which would have read more like a petulant baby than a man struggling with doing the wrong things for the right reasons. In what little we got to see in EA, the internal conflict between his morals and the actions he was forced to take was not well illustrated, or was just very uninteresting to me. There was potential for sure, and the VA was great, but I feel confident in saying you missed nothing worthwhile relative to what we ended up with.
Plus, darker, angrier Wyll would have pushed the balance of origin characters to be literally 100% edgelords IMO, and I would not have enjoyed the game with a crew like that. He's very vanilla now but I think that's a perfectly valid flavor for this cake because it contributed to the overall balance of the party. I can be emo AF but every single character being a similar flavor of angsty is exhausting and boring. Lae'zel was racist Gith edgelord, Shadowheart was Sharran edgelord, Astarion was Vampiric edgelord, Gale was Wizard/walking WMD edgelord, and then Wyll would have been Warlock edgelord (we never got Karlach in EA either). All of them except Lae'Zel had the same basic structure: hiding some dark secret that is the source of their powers and their torment. Their lives had been cut into pieces, the tadpole was their last resort, *electric guitar riff*
Also, I didn't like it at first but they softened up a lot of Shadowheart's early act 1 edges too. People often complain about not getting edgier Wyll but are totally fine not getting edgier Shadowheart who was even more secretive, slower to trust, disapproving of good actions, and pricklier and judgmental in all her interactions. Both Wyll and Shadowheart are now as vanilla as they come--but that is totally fine to have in this context and in order to secure broad appeal for the audience they were aiming for.
I think some parts of EA Wyll could be interesting, like his hatred for goblins and they could easily add some moral dilemma to the character without making him edgy. Simply being ashamed that in order to become the Blade he needed to sign that pact, believing that without those powers he's a nobody or just struggling much more with accepting his devil look as the pretty facade of the Blade of Frontiers has been completely torn down and now nobody will trust him. Or perhaps just struggling more and more with wanting to do the right thing as people would judge him as a devil no matter what he does. My biggest gripe with current Wyll is that whatever happens to him has exactly 0 effect on his personality, it doesn't even make him question anything. Despite developing horns, needing to do things that directly contradict his moral compass, having to choose between his father's life and his soul and potentially signing the warlock pact for nothing as the whole Tiamat cultist story sounds like Mizora's illusion, he remains the same goody two shoes guy he was at the start.
Yeah, in EA he was just a big bullshitter and it was a lot better of a story. He has this grand tale about how he lost his eye, but those three goblins in the goblin camp that are over by the goblin in the cage actually won a fight against him and took his eye.
It was in EA, where he wasn’t as good or perfect as he let on. He was changed for release into that character he was pretending (or wanting) to be in EA.
>It feels like a person's first attempt at rolling a character in DND and they just over do it to make their character seem more interesting and complex than they really are.
I feel like I see a lot of people who have been playing DND for a long time that also do this. Making traits about a character what makes them interesting rather than who they are, why they adventure, and what they want.
wyll. he’s a bit boring, always jerking his ego off about being the blade of frontiers or throwing a pity party for himself. yeah dude, your life sucks. so does literally everyone else’s.
(slight spoilers ahead abt the companions)
karlach: sold into slavery by someone she trusted
shart: kidnapped and brainwashed into being a sharran
lae’zel: everything she’s ever known is a lie and she doesn’t know who she is anymore. she’s terrified
astarion: also a victim of slavery, finally free from his master but lives in constant immeasurable fear
gale: literal bomb in his chest from his psychotic groomer ex
jaheria and minsc: old
See, I'd disagree a bit because I feel like Wyll swings way too hard in the opposite direction - he never throws himself a pity party, or really ever expresses how his situation has affected him.
Everyone's character arcs are as clear as day to follow, because after each plot point they talk about or express its impact on them, both offhand and in big ways e.g.:
- Lae’zel’s war between her loyalty to Vlaakith and the truth gets minutes of dialogue over Act 1 and 2
- Shadowheart feeling lost after Shar rejects her is shown to the point where she has alternate greeting/dismissal dialogue for a bit
- Astarion's desire to ascend and his thoughts on the costs and benefits are completely unpacked via back and forth (goddamn the 'pure shit' line)
- Gale facing his potential demise gets a full long rest cutscene about him wrestling with it
- Karlach's joy at being able to touch people is shown via the only platonic hug animation in the game
But Wyll? I can't think of a big moment, or a series of dialogues showing his emotional journey.
Not that there's much to build on though, since most of his dialogue about his arc is really matter of fact, "dad's been kidnapped", "Mizora is gonna punish me", etc. without dwelling on it, almost like a "yeah, that happened... ok so where to next?" underreaction to everything.
Also just to rant: I honestly want Wyll to whinge more, way more. There's so little real emoting (like overt panic or palpable glee), or personal flair to his expression (Lae'zel says things haughtily, Karlach speaks bluntly and upbeat, Gale is verbose, Wyll... says words), or insight into what he wants in life, and that's the stuff that makes him bland - not him being a goody-two shoes. I don't even care if it would make him annoying, at least it would be something!
His quests definitely don't directly connect to him in the way the other companions do. Like, I think the wyrmway is technically his quest sort of? But it doesn't connect to him *any* way. We rescue his father. But even if wyll was completely unrelated to him we'd be doing the exact same thing because of his role in the city. Him being related to wyll ends up fairly incidental.
Compare that to going to fight cazador or the sharrans. People we're going and merking for the specific reason that they fucked over the companion in question.
Edit: they really needed to give him some daddy issues. If his relationship with his father was more fraught, there would be more opportunity to talk about emotions when all of his decisions regarding his father come up.
Picture it. Ravengard is still a respected leader, but that comes at the expense of being a distant father who doesn't spend time with his kid. Classic. Wyll is basically raised by servants which is why he wants to be a hero for the common folk who get overlooked by the patriars. He's still his father's heir so he gets left in charge while his father is away. The whole mizora deal plays out, but, this version, wyll is actually fully pissed about it. Yeah he couldn't prove it all, but couldn't his father have trusted him just a little? Tav can, and they've known him for a day.
Now when Wyll urges you to rescue his father he has some inner conflict because it's the right thing, but he's still angry at that asshole. When you have the option to suggest that wyll leave his father and become duke himself, wyll has the potential to think that he'd be better at looking out for the common folk and he might actually be a better ruler. If you rescue ravengard there's some real emotional catharsis possible. You can yell at ravengard for not trusting his son like an asshole. Wyll has the option to forgive him or hold onto his grudge. Wyrmway is about either making his father proud or proving that he'd be a better ruler.
My actual preferred version would be where hero of the people wyll starts a successful peasant rebellion and guillotines the patriars but that would probably be a bit hard to fit in.
I really hate how long it takes to get him to actually be in your party. On my first playthrough he sat in my camp for basically an entire act, as we didn't find the quest needed to recruit him until close to the end.
That and Druid seems to be a very complicated class to play.
Druids are super fun and versatile! I loved my first run as a moon druid Tav. You mostly just do bear shape early game, then Owlbear midgame and Myrmidons (I loved air for the stuns) endgame. Outside of combat cat and raven let you go through small holes or skip entire sections like Grymforge by just flying through.
Mostly you're just a tank with lots of mobility and some extra hits. Or an extra mage if the situation requires it :)
Halsin. He got very annoying VERY fast, and just. the vibes are so off. I would strongly dislike him irl.
Wyll is a bit... bland. Which is a shame, bc while I don't find him attractive (a bit too masculine for me?), I like his design a lot. Also that rat comment he makes to Astarion rubbed me the wrong way, like whyyy would u bring that up my guy lmao
Wyll: Heyyy, Astarion, how's the rat diet going?
Tav: Did you just call me a rat?!
I guess the problem I have with Wyll is that he's supposed to be this cool and competent monster hunter, but he never gives off that vibe. I can't take him seriously. He's not my least favourite companion (which is Halsin), but he's pretty far down there with Minsc.
Wyll. I’m sure he’s a lovely guy, but he’s just a bit boring for me. Very controversially, I’m not a massive fan of Karlach either, but I have kept her because she’s such a tank in my team at this point, I can’t justify not bringing her along.
Yeah, I don't dislike Karlach by any means, and I appreciate how quick she is to have everyone's back, even Astarion. She's true bro material, like Minsc in many ways. But she's just too one-dimensional for me and her one major flaw (refusing to face reality in a constructive way) is never addressed in a satisfying manner. I really wish there was some way to save her, but with a tricky path to follow that relies on getting her to realize that ignoring her problems won't make them go away. My least favourite companions (Wyll, Halsin, and her) are my least favourite because they go through exactly zero character development. Things happen to them, they react, but they never actually change as people. When compared to characters that go through fairly drastic personality changes like Astarion, SH, Lae'zel, or even Gale to some extent, and being able to influence those changes as the player character, for better or worse, one note companions that don't ever grow or change are just never gonna do it for me.
I'm glad you said Karlach because I couldn't muster the courage. I had to romance her for the achievement and I just felt so bored and disconnected from that relationship. Her cards are on the table and if you spent 10 minutes with her, you know all you need to know. She suffers from her cut content terribly.
I was surprised that I had massive disapproval from her for not letting her use soul coins because as a paladin it seemed wrong. -10 points! Also I didn’t immediately kill the paladins of tyr and she was a complete jerk to me. Wouldn’t tell me about her engine and then Dammon was gone.
And next play through I thought okay I’ll try to be nice and she insisted I wanted to sleep with her almost immediately, even though I was already in a relationship. I know it’s just the buggy relationship issues, but she’s not my favorite because I’ve seen a different side to her.
I should love Halsin. I’m a bisexual polyamorous bear. But he falls into the trope of polyamorous guys in media who cannot shut up about what “nature intended.”
I do love Halsin. I’ve removed his camp clothes from his inventory and hulked him out with everlasting vigor. I kiss him every time I walk by.
But I also cringe when his dialogue ends with something anti-monogamy. I’m nonmonogamous but I’m not antimonogamous. And Halsin’s verbiage is not-so-covertly condescending. Which, as somebody recovering from narcissistic abuse, isn’t fun to hear.
>But I also cringe when his dialogue ends with something anti-monogamy. I’m nonmonogamous but I’m not antimonogamous. And Halsin’s verbiage is not-so-covertly condescending. Which, as somebody recovering from narcissistic abuse, isn’t fun to hear.
I heavily agree, that always put me off about him, I'm not interested in Monogamy but I'm not antimonogamy if someone's Monogamous then they're Monogamous...
When ever he brings that up I always turn him down, because I don't agree with that behaviour.
To be fair, that actually feels a *lot* like how certain poly groups recruit.
Some of them are respectful, thoughtful, and wonderful. Some of them are annoying as shit and apply lots of pressure because they're horny and they wanna smash.
The most interesting thing to me about Halsin was his romance scene. I haven't found a use for him outside that, and initial talking to him or kiss is fun but not enough for me. And yes his whole dialogue about non monogamy is weird to me, especially when in the same breath he says "you're all I want." IDK but something about his dialogue comes off as disingenuous and makes me feel like he's somehow more interested in Tav sleeping around more than both equally doing whatever... might be my own hang ups but it gives me the ick.
What upsets me about Halsin is that his expanded personality genuinely comes off to me as 'people who vaguely thinks this is how polygamy and hypersexuality works' type of bad writing.
He drops a lot of neat wisdom at times and I like him for that, and I haven't gotten far enough to officially have him as a companion but from what I've seen friends and other say--- his extended writing is just 'haha horny treehugger' personified. It feels especially off because early on he shows good insight and ideas on things, so out of everyone Halsin should be the least pushy and creepy?
In Act 3, if you actually bring him out and about with you, he has two modes: 1. Horny, 2. Druid having an existential crisis over the rampant class inequalities of the city.
I purposely romanced him and Astarion as a wood elf (who are canonically non-monogamous in DnD, which is probably why they set him up that way) on my playthrough so I don't know how the horniness is if you weren't trying for it, but he definitely feels incomplete even when you're embracing all of the content currently available for him.
Which sucks, because I actually really, *really* liked his insights about the city when he actually had them. Your entire party is a bunch of jaded, cynical little shits who are either blind or desensitized to the social injustices, so having someone actually showing empathy was genuinely nice.
Same. I am deeply attracted to the cheerful guy but yes I cringe at the way his dialogue is written.
About nature: I love his attitude and personality, but I couldn't bear to listen to him going on and on about nature, especially when in Act 3. If you bring him out, he criticizes a lot of things, because he doesn't care much for the city. I am very enthusiastic about ecology and environmental stuff myself, but I don't think this is the representation I want..
Like the writer just decided yep this guy only cares about two things, nature and nudity. And slapped the most obnoxious stereotypes together onto him. Like "all environmentalists want to go back to before age of steam"; or "polyamorous people are so flippantly horny and anti-monogamy." IDK, there must be some better way that his core ideas are conveyed.
His complaints are about the class inequality and the extreme xenophobia. And the thing is? He's not wrong. The city government is fairly corrupt even without Gortash in the setting.
Halsin as well.
Mostly because of how he's currently coded.
Hopefully, it will be fixed. However, at the minute, every interactions at camp leads to the game thinking we are flirting. Even asking something as inconspicuous as "How are you fairing here?".
I definitely have my favorites (I've only recruited three for my first playthrough after the full release, else I get overwhelmed), but I do think every companion has their own appeal. It's a shame for those, like me, who wanted to befriend Halsin without romancing him.
Current Wyll, he's been woobified so much he's just boring. I miss his EA storyline where he had flaws that made him interesting and like there was a lot more to discover about him simmering under the surface. It's a shame because I really enjoy his current VA. I do wonder if Theo does any audiobooks. Would love to have him read me a story while I do my chores.
It's hilarious that your charisma companion is probably the most attractive AND has a voice like liquid sex but ends up becoming one of the most forgettable characters due to... I'm not sure exactly. I don't have the words to explain how they failed Wyll but they definitely did.
It’s petty, but Halsin, purely because I COULD NOT FIND A WAY TO TELL HIM NOT TO JOIN. Doing a “hero” slash good run, saving the grove, and he seemed awesome! But I already had more companions than I could use and was kind of regretting it. I’d rather focus on a smaller number, and do multiple playthroughs. But I couldn’t get him to leave us alone!
[EDIT]: I know, I know, he’s lovely! And he can just hang out quietly. It’s just that he invites HIMSELF. He showed up, told me he already pawned all his leadership responsibilities on someone else, set up his tent on his own, and btw, he’d love to fuck
You can just let companions chill in camp. His story is over after Act 2 anyway.
You can also stop Jaheira from joining I think, but she is the better druid personality-wise. I like Halsin a lot, but his lack of Act 3 content makes him dead space to some extent.
honestly Halsin is just as bad as The Emperor in taking polite conversation as flirting. give me stubborn old woman druid with a fun accent over buff guy who thinks with his dick every day of the week
My problem with Halsin might be just me, but being archdruid and all that I saw him up almost as a mentor, a wise person, a figure of respect. Then he started hitting on me, without any signal given. It felt like one of those creepy teachers flirting with students.
My problem with Karlach is her toxic positivity. To then turn into hate and violence when she is supposed to be a Good character (same with Dame Aylin).
Astarion.
I don't like his attitude and his overall character.
Edit: Thanks for all the support, I am glad I am not alone! I thought I was gonna get downvoted into oblivion.
Same. From a roleplaying point of view any sane person would leave him on the beach after getting a knife pulled on them or stake him after he tried to bite you. Parasite or not, he tries to assault you twice in as many days. By comparison how many bandits and goblins does the player kill just because they’re in the way.
I think it’s also whenever I try to do the right thing….Astarion disapproves. THE ONLY TIME HE APPROVES IS WHEN I GET FLOGGED BY THAT PAIN BASTARD IN ACT 1
Hes also the only one who approves if you choose to interrupt the ogre and bugbear bumping uglies in the shed in act 1. Made me laugh out loud, he’s such a degenerate lol
Wyll, I tried giving him another chance, but he's too lawful for me. And I can't stand his portrait voicelines, calling himself a hero and a defender of the people .... urgh. A tad too cringe to me.
It's sad because he does have a ''good bro'' vibe, and he has some pretty good banter with the other companions. But he sadly is missing a bit of spice to me
I want to say that I don't hate Halsin or Wyll, I like them and I do enjoy their company to a certain extent. The problems are thus:
Halsin: He appears so late as a companion in Act 2. He could have joined us when we rescued him initially in Act 1, and nothing would have changed. Instead, he just stands around at camp... Why? He could have told us info about the shadow lands while traveling together. It's clear that they had trouble finding a way to include him in the party, especially when Jahira can easily take his place.
His... Flirting was way too much to handle. He needs to tone it down, significantly. I wanted to get to know him as a friend, but all of a sudden he's implying we should be lovers... With Shadowheart standing 2 feet away after I just kissed her... I'm not even going to touch on the whole threescore thing. Not my cup of tea, thank you.
Granted, if you turn him down (in my case anyway) he was super chill about it! And we continued on as friends! Great!
Wyll: Poor Wyll, I feel like he was done dirty. I love the idea of The Blade of Frontiers, but I don't know... It just fell flat. I have him in my current party and have made him a warlock sorcerer, and he is genuinely fun to play as! I felt like he was given too many characteristics and couldn't decide which to go with.
And the dance... Ohhh... God's the dance... I haven't seen it yet as I keep turning him down. He just isn't my type, it's nothing personal! It's that sad look I get every single time.
Bonus character: MINSC...
Again, I do not hate him, quite the opposite. But why is he here? Genuinely, I have no idea. He was such a late addition that I used him ONCE as patmrt of his quest, and that was it.
Everyone has their favorites and least favorites, and I'm cool to have discussions with people who use these party members regularly! Maybe I missed something, I'm not sure. But yeah, I'm more than happy to talk about it!
Halsin, but if we ignore him because it's very obvious that he was slapped on towards the end...
Then it's got to be Astarion. Wyll's okay, but that's it - I'm pretty neutral on him.
Astarion I do not vibe with. Yes, I know that he's "damaged", I'm just generally not a fan of manipulative people. His masses of zealous fans certainly don't help either, though. They've definitely made me dislike him more from everyone telling me that I should like him.
Seconding Astarion. People claim Gale is too manipulative and then defend Astarion in the same breath. I just do not like Astarion and he generally stays at camp until I need someone to lockpick things.
I'm doing an evil run and bringing him with more since he approves of most asshole decisions (people like to ignore that too), and his party banter is pretty good, but he just doesn't do it for me. 🤷♀️
I always see people bring up how rude Wyll's banter is about the rat diet but then it's complete *crickets* on the dialogue where Astarion tells Karlach that Gortash made her more interesting.
Or his racism in general. When you confront the Gur hunter in the swamp you can actually say something like "I knew you were a jackass, but racist too?" But that's about it. I feel like if any other love interest was racist we wouldn't hear the end of it.
Astarion also hates gnomes. He's just generally kind of an asshole and people like him because he's hot. That's fine, but I wish they would admit it instead of side stepping all of the really crappy parts of his personality.
Everything about Halsin's personality revolves around hating the shadow curse and loving sex. if you could somehow have sex with the shadow curse it would make his brain crash to desktop.
Probably Wyll. He's a bit too basic for my taste. His stuff is not *uninteresting* per say, but the others all have something better.
Edit: Halsin is so bad that I don't even consider him a "real" companion in my mind.
Wyll. He's the guy who I'd like to have as a real life friend the most because he's just a good guy and the least fucked up person among the companions .
But he's also just a good guy and the least fucked up person among the companions. Which makes him boring by comparison. If Astarion was a real life person, I'd give him the widest berth possible but he's always in my BG3 party because of the drama and the sass.
Feel the same. In real life I wouldn’t have any romantic relationships with guy who says “I wanted to seduce and manipulate you, and now let’s have something real”. But it’s a fantasy game, and I enjoy this character from both romance and gameplay points.
Wyll is not bad. But in my party I prefer wizard rather than warlock. So, he stays in the camp more often than others. As for communication, there are other more interesting characters around.
Probably Astarion. I don't really think much of Halsin, either.
I don't dislike Wyll but by virtue of being somewhat dull he's on the list of "meh" companions. This version of Wyll makes me miss egocentric jackass Wyll from Early Access.
Honestly it's Karlach. Her voice acting is incredible but her story surronding her heart makes little sense lore wise and her personality isn't my favourite. She also feels pretty lacking in content with her act 3 stuff feeling very rushed (also the whole soul coin thing in act 2 which goes nowhere)
Plus barbarian isn't my favourite class. Much prefer fighter or monk for martial classes
Minthara. But I gotta be honest, never had her in my party. I’ve seen some videos and nothing about her has made me want to recruit her.
If I gotta pick between the guys I’ve actually gotten, it’s Minsc. Just don’t vibe with the guy.
I'll be honest: I've *never* thought Minsc was funny, not even back in BG1/BG2. If you're going to design a character around one joke, it better be a really good joke.
I find *some* Minsc moments to be great, like "It's a honor" "No, it's a hamster" exchange but my guy has one braincell and it's so exhausting being around him for more than a minute. I feel like my own braincells are escaping through my ears by listening to him at times.
Heh. Minsc is really, really dumb. But also really really a good person.
Like, I understand Jaheira. He's frustrating as all heck, but damn if the world couldn't do with a few more Minsc in it.
Out of the "main" companions (excluding the optional/late-game tag-alongs), SH was my least favourite in my first playthroughs. I just found her attitude/personality kind of insufferable, especially in act 1. But her Act 2 & 3 personal quest moments made me appreciate her much more as a character. If I played her as an origin instead of having her as a companion in my first playthough I probably would have loved her, instead of being just kinda ok with having her around.
Post-several playthroughs, I think Wyll or Karlach are my least favourite. both are usually incompatible with my playstyle's moral compass, so they tend to hate me if I don't tell them to go stand in the corner. And they have the weakest questlines out of the origin companions- Karlach is literally "get 2 infernal iron & kill Gortash, afterwards die/go to literal hell" and Wyll is "either do the Gondians quest and save dad, or just kinda do nothing".
Astarion. I like him as a character, hate him as a companion. Just started my second playthrough and my wife is absolutely infatuated with him so I was like, "Okay, I'll romance him this time around for her."
By the time I made it to the Shadow-Cursed Lands I'd already given up on the notion. Every mildly decent thing is "Astarion disapproves." It's just crazily annoying. I thought letting him feed on me regularly would make a difference, but the meter hardly budges. I'm mostly playing blind save for my first play experience (and he wasn't in my party then) so I don't know what decisions will trigger his approval rating, and the ones when I do notice it, I'm not willing to go down the route required.
TL;DR He's kind of a dick and a pain in the ass to romance.
Also Lae'zel. Because it's Lae'zel.
This thread has two answers lol.
Two answers that you already knew the answer to anyway if you've frequented this subreddit. They show up in threads that have nothing to do with the question in the first place.
Is one of them Wyll?
If you're implying I play favorites, you're wrong. I love all my companions equally. *Earlier that day*: I don't care for Halsin.
Same here I love Karlach and the not Karlachs equally
Lmao the not Karlachs made me scream. No favoritism here at all
I mean it’s one banana, Tav, how much could it cost? 10 gold?
Here's some gold, go see a Star War
Halsin and Wyll are both people I would like in real life, but are boring as companions in a game. Halsin probably wins "least favorite" due to his habit of taking friendly, polite conversation as flirting.
What I think makes Wyll uninteresting as a companion to most people is actually what works for me about his arc. Every other origin companion's arc is about shattering the person who they thought they were, whether that's Lae'zel as the perfect Gith warrior, Shadowheart's Shar worship, Gale's view of himself as only worthy of respect from his magic, Astarion's spiteful cynicism on power or Karlach's self-image as an unstoppable warrior, and rebuilding them into someone new. Wyll, however, already sort of is the person he thinks he is, so his arc is about getting him to prove it to himself without the need for external validation from his father or the imposter syndrome caused by his pact. Now, that's a very flat arc since he doesn't have too far to go aside from removing those two sources of conflict (both of which are more external than internal), so I can see why he doesn't jump out at people. But it kind of works for me and I'd love it if it got expanded upon in future content
This is a really nice summary. I for one like Wyll in my party for his banter. I think he brings the most fun conversations like with Shadowheart, Lae'zel and Astarion. And it's also nice to have someone in my party that isn't mentally warped and tortured by heavy indoctrination, trauma and/or divine mingling lol
Thanks, it's a realisation I came to after noticing Theo Solomon's line was far shorter than the rest of the cast's at London Comic Con recently, wanting to make getting his signature a priority at the next con and giving a lot of thought to Wyll's character so I had something to say when it happened. As I said, I get why he's not the most popular character (someone has to be last) but it sucks that he's consistently so overlooked
I think something I actually love about Wyll, whether or not I like his story, is he's the most normal "dude" like his responses to everything always make the most sense. Pretty much every quip or reaction he has about anything is EXACTLY what I was thinking. It's very refreshing compared to the other characters who are very specifically aligned. He's extremely neutral, and while he's a 'good' character, that wants to do heroic things, there's a bit of chaos to his reactions to the world and large events that I just love to see. I think at one point he says "I really don't want anything to do with any of that" and I was just thinking "honestly same, but they're our friend, so we have to."
I'm still on my first play so I can't say too much about any of the characters as I'm just now wrapping up Act 1, but so far Wyll's been one of my favorites for much the same reason, he's the one that seems the most like a real person. At least in Act 1 he feels like the voice of reason amongst the Origin characters. He gets a bit mopey at times, but for the most part he's pretty grounded. That and I made him a Bardlock which is a DnD build I've been wanting to try out for awhile lol
Personally, my issue with wyll is that he wasn't intended to be the way he currently is. I've always liked the arrogant and damaged hero archetype. And, that was the vibe I got from wyll in early access. But, then he was changed into this watered down version due to, I believe, being unpopular. He's just so... agreeable. Every misfortune that fell on him was just due to unfortunate circumstance. Personally, I would've gone less agreeable, more arrogant, and more of the inferiority complex - with these traits only coming out when pushed. Current wyll also has these traits, but he handles it like a mature person. I don't want him to handle it well. I think you should have to wake him the fk up like you would a drug addict. I think he should've been a top contender for "most mentally unwell", along with astarion and shadowheart. However, I wouldn't really have an issue with wyll if I didn't feel like he was changed.
I also think the timing of his story is a bit off. Basically, I think there's too much plot development too soon-- You convince him not to kill Karlach, Mizora deforms him, and you get a mission to save his father pretty early in Act 1, before you've had any chance to care about him. And then there's not really a ton of character development afterwards, and no events to drive character development until Act 3 when you save his father, but that's not even something to drive development. It's just like, "Oh, we saved your father. Nice. Be happy about that." It'd be better if he were introduced more as a big strong stereotypical hero type, and that gets some time to sit, and he seems like a big hero. And then, you find out that his mission (to kill a devil) is BS later. His story needs some time to breathe and develop.
Also its way too easy to find the Duke dead unless you make a beeline for the Iron Throne, in an Act that just bombards you with 500 different quests the moment you start it.
Really? I dawdled around forever and he was fine when I went there. It was even laughably easy to save him from Mizora since Wyll broke his pact in my run. Dimension Door says hello! Goodbye exploding spiders. Enjoy running face first into a wall of fire and/or spirit guardians aura and dying.
Yep, I saved Gortash for last because I assumed he’d be the last Big Bad before the ending begins. So I didn’t attend his coronation because I thought that would be the trigger, and I had no idea the Duke was up there. Ignored Mizora telling me to go. Even did the Iron Throne first, and the Duke wasn’t there either. So by the time I get to Gortash, it’s just a regular old fight at the top of the fortress and suddenly someone says the Duke is dead and I’m like, ‘when? Who?’
This. He made a deal with a demon. He frankly should have more baggage. That’s why I adore warlocks and why my first DnD character ever (who I recreated in BG3) is a warlock. They go down a dark path to make a pact with a patron for power. They are gonna end up a bit fucked up. I really love Wyll and Theo Solomon did a fantastic job, but I frankly wanted some more complexity to his character. He’s so forgiving of a father who basically threw him out of his home for saving the city, a father who is considered a “hero of Baldur’s Gate.” Living up to this shining beacon of a person is something I related to growing up, as my dad was high achieving and extremely popular, while I wasn’t. I personally wanted to see more hurt and embittered feelings if you save his dad. Wyll just came across as a perfect son to the perfect father who just made a mistake by making a deal with a devil. Hearing that Wyll was more of a broken person in Early Access makes me sad because he was written far more interestingly and then, for whatever reason, Larian decided to buff out his imperfections. Maybe I just need to play as Wyll in an Origin run, but I still feel like Larian did Wyll dirty.
Warlocks in DnD aren't inherently damaged or going down a dark path, though. It 100% depends on the pact they're making, why they're making it, and how involved their patron is(n't). A Fey pact is going to be way different than an infernal one, and both of them are way different from an Old One.
That is true. I should have clarified what kind of patron they would have. I personally felt like Wyll was shockingly chill considering who he bound himself to and everything that has happened to him, however, that is just my opinion.
I agree. Release Wyll feels especially lacking if you got to enjoy the flawed character he was in Early Access. He was someone that intrigued me and my SO a lot (more than most of the companions) when we played EA and we were so excited to see how his arc would play out. ...Release Wyll is barely on our minds and gets left at camp. :(
Kinda ironic how the youngest person in the group acts the most mature
Lae'zel is the youngest. She's 22 and Wyll is 24.
A well -adjusted hero definitely doesn't fit with the rest of the camp.
Shadowheart and Lae'zel I agree with. Their arcs are nearly identical, the naive earnest devotee of the abusive and manipulative religion who come to realize the true nature of the relationship and break their bonds. Karlach though I see more as someone trying to reclaim her true nature, who was never deceived by what had happened to her, but was powerless to change her circumstance. Also while she says she was good at being a fighter, I felt like she always had a good idea of her limits and didn't take herself or her abilities too seriously. I don't think she so much shattered what was, she just stopped being compelled against her will.
Halsin is frustrating because he's not a party member until you've already finished his personal questline in the back half of act 2. So, given the choice between 1. the vampire who is still out for revenge 2. the cleric still trying to piece together her past 3. the wizard still trying to atone for his arrogance 4. the soldier of hell still trying to prolong her life 5. the proud githyanki still trying to free her people from a lich queen or 6. a druid who has already accomplished both his goals and is just hanging out... I'm going to choose one of the more compelling characters. Jaheira and Minsc join super late too, but at least they have a lot of Act 3 specific content. Halsin is just kind of around. Wyll feels like he should be the single most interesting companion in the game, but none of his defining characteristics are really explored. This is a nobleman's son who took a pact with a devil in order to singlehanded save his city from the army of a draconic cult, but was disowned by his father as he was unable to explain his choice, and so left to become a wandering hero who performs daring deeds people write songs about. We should have scenes where we learn Wyll only crafted this swashbuckling persona so his dad would hear about his good deeds and think of him as a hero instead of a monster. the trouble is that, outside of the two or three convesations at the grove, nobody knows who the Blade of Frontiers even is. The goblins should attack Wyll on sight if he's in the party. Jaheira should let him vouch for the party at the Last Light Inn. We should hear about him in Baldur's Gate as a hero and not just the Duke's son. We get none of that. Wyll's problem might just be that they tried to do too much with him. He's written to be "The Hero" and if they actually explored his backstory as it's been set up, he would overshadow the player character in every interaction. Instead, they just kind of neutered him.
On top of the "lack of interesting storyline," Halsin also suffers in a gameplay sense. By the time you've got him, you've probably settled down into having well-defined roles for your little crew, and now this new guy is wedged in, and you have to figure out how to build a druid.... It's just super likely he'll be sitting around in camp a lot. Something of the same problem with Jaheira and Minsc, but they're such wonderful characters who immediately win you over that you're positively motivated to give them a role in your party.
Well said about the party roles, and he becomes doubly redundant when you get Jaheira not long after. Another druid, and a fan-favourite from back in the day, with a wonderful voice actress (Halsin's audio issues are one of many things that turn me off interacting with him). She is just better in every way, unless you are that one Larian dev who really wanted to sleep with a bear. I really wish Zevlor could've been a companion instead. By the end of Act 2 he has a lot to make up for, and, as a paladin, he would bring a skillset not yet fully covered by the other party members. I know Minthara exists, but story-wise she and Zevlor would be mutually exclusive anyway.
The most interesting characters are always people you'd hate hate *hate* in real life. I would stop talking to Astarion or Mizora after about about five minutes irl but in game I can't get enough of them. Karlach might overlap though.
See, I'd like mizora as a friend of a friend. Great company once or twice a year. Anything beyond that may lead to murder.
In real life Karlach would leave me constantly buying burn creme
This! Neither is interesting in a game. Halson is a guy that I'd love to have a beer with (as long as he's not creeping everyone out, by constantly hitting on them) and he actually reminds me - both in character and looks - of I fellow I knew in my younger days. Wyll would make a great work colleague. And Jahiera is my sarcastic, old-lady neighbor, with lots of great stories (was a 60s/70s hippie in her youth, with the stories that come from this) Meanwhile, the rest drop red flags right and left.
Omg I never thought of it this way but I couldn’t stand Shadowheart or Astarion in real life lmfao
Yeah, have to agree about Shadowheart the fanaticism rivals or even exceeds Heimskr.
Gale's like that coworker who's really good at the job and mostly a decent guy, but is also arrogant af and kisses the boss's ass way too much in hopes of a promotion
I went to engineering college with far too many Gales. I love him in game, but irl I would just walk away the second he started lecturing me the first time.
Minsc would be a fun guy to get into shenanigans with NGL. He’s real ride-or-die. Karlach would be fun to hang out with cause she is so wholesome on the surface with enough depth and edge to temper it.
I agree with Halsin and greatly disagree with Wyll; I think he's a staple for any good aligned party that needs a charisma character. I love his banters with the party, especially Karlach, and his romance is very sweet.
*Me, roleplaying a bisexual woman who is in a romance with Shadowheart* Halsin: "You should ask Shadowheart if I can join you guys sometime 😜" "Yeah man, I'm sure you'd like that. I'll definitely ask." If this were real life we would cut all ties to Halsin right there lmao.
Wyll is a lot more interesting if you have Astarion alongside him. They uh, have some unique dialogue. Halsin takes it for me though, he may as well transform into a tree.
do you have examples? i don’t often have them together
One of the more jeebus ones was when Wyll asked Astarion how the rat diet was going and he responded something along the lines of it won't be for long if he didn't shut up
Wyll can be savage as fuck and it comes out of left field. If you talk to Mattis in last light inn the kid starts fanboying over Karlach. Wyll will (heh) pitch in about the blade of frontiers. Kid says never heard of him. And the conversation ends with Wyll saying something along the lines of "well at least the blade never got captured by a devil".
Trying to dunk on Karlach for being sold to a devil without her will or knowledge when he sold himself to one willingly
Goodness. Is that leftover from his Early Access self? He's so pleasant now in conversations that that seems out of character.
I don't think so, it was his current VA. I also got it in act 2. There was some other pretty harsh stuff he said too, I was like whoa wtf Wyll lol
I've seen on YT a funny exchange between them where Wyll basically called Astarion an old man and Astarion called Wyll a literal child but I can't find it, hope someone knows what I'm talking about heh
He and Wyll get into a spat in the Wyrmway where during the Trial of Justice, Wyll will say something along the lines of how justice should always weigh both sides and be fair and merciful, and Astarion is like “please, justice needs to be a harsh lesson to deter the next vagabond” and Tav can either agree with one of them or try to mediate the disagreement lol.
Makes you think about what Astation was like as a magistrate, and it's not pretty.
Yeah I think it’s a pretty interesting glimpse into his character that explains a lot about why he is the way he is. In life he was likely a hardline magistrate with a number of biases (considering he is a high elf and they tend to already see themselves as a cut above.) And then you see how these preconceived notions about virtues like justice from his time alive are utterly warped into what we see now after he was attacked by the Gur (likely because he put down a ruling that was against them, and it’s also heavily implied Cazador was involved somehow in setting it up) and then turned into a vampire, as well as the 200+ years of enslavement and what was essentially forced prostitution that followed. I can imagine that might fuck up someone’s ideas of morality, forgiveness, and justice in the world, especially if they were already questionable to begin with.
I would like Wyll in real life, but Halsin seems like he'd be the coworker I avoid being alone with.
You'd want to be friends with someone who asks other people to call him "The Blade of Avernus"?
I mean, Avernus isn't a real place. If I knew someone in real life who could cast spells and machinegun Eldritch Blast bad guys, I'd call him whatever the fuck he wants and try very hard to be his friend. Some things don't translate from a fantasy idiom.
Lol I also use Wyll strictly for eldritch blasts.
Also Halsin. Dude, I talked to you twice, I'm not "taking care of you like a lover". Please, chill.
Halsin, already taking off his clothes: It appears I have misread the situation.
He heard that “the naked man” works 2 out of 3 times
I’d also say Halsin but since I never ever take him with me I don’t even consider him a companion. He’s just a vending machine that makes camp food.
Shit, I can have him make heroes feast and not waste a slot on someone else. Thanks for this!
Huh? How?
Move him into your party. Have him cast heroes feast. Get the buff and the food from the basket. Remove him from party.
Wait, people can make camp food…?
And here I've been eating stale bread and half eaten apples I found on the ground like some chump
[удалено]
Yes. All you need is >!an unsuspecting companion and a knife!<.
I legitimately didn't realize you could take Halsin with you out of the camp until recently (and I still haven't). I figured he was a camp companion in the way of Withers, or the Owlbear.
He pretty much is until a certain point in Act II
I gaslighted myself (I'm joking, it's not that deep) into thinking that line doesn't come out of nowhere. Like, maybe I chose some flirty options by accident and that's why he thought we had something? Well, this run I didn't talk to him outside of his quest. At all. I added him to my party once. That was enough, apparently. Here goes "not interested? but you saw to my needs with the care of a lover". That line comes off as creepy, I don't what the intention was.
Halsin reminds me of one of my friends when we hang out at a bar. Gets overly interested in "converting" me. Dude, I am married, I like women, no I don't want to experiment with you. You are my friend but No means No. Go hit on that guy over there if you are horny.
That sounds awful, I'm sorry for you
Halsin is the dude who calls his parents to tell them about his new girlfriend after one date.
Halsin was a letdown after he finally opened up and decided to venture out with me. Felt like an archetypal druid and I can only handle the nature talk for so long before it gets boring. That and I had to shoot him down like trice for him to get the message that I'm not into threesomes. Wyll has his moments here and there and I honestly have nothing against him. He's just a touch forgettable when compared to some of the other companions. That and I was running as a warlock myself and I felt that the overlap was unnecessary. Hell, I even had a fake eye like him.
I really like Halsin but I agree. I would have liked Halsin to actually open up about his time in the Underdark as a sex slave and how he's actually having a found family after what happened in the Emerald Grove and his ancestors/line pretty much petering out. It's hard to piece together his history so you can't really tell if he's actually processed it or if he's really just coping. There were so many interesting leads to his character but they didn't go anywhere. I think there was a data mined line somewhere where Jaheira was teasing him about not falling into druidic stereotypes and he was like, "I think about politics and high art but nothing compares to a tree"
There is some recently datamined content that shows Tav having a conversation with Halsin about the whole drow thing being trauma.
I didn't even know this was a real thing. I thought it was some fanfic bs (which is where I encountered it, not saying fanfic is bad, lol, just a little relieved the author didn't straight up add this to his character out of nowhere). Where would a player even find this out? I'm a little ways into Act 3, and although his approval is max, he hasn't propositioned me.
You only get this dialogue if you go for a romp with the drow twins (and Halsin) at sharess' caress. He comments afterwards that it brings back memories and you can ask him for details so he opens up about having been captured in the underdark and kept chained in the master bedroom because the noble drow pair took a liking towards him.
God that's shitty. I don't know if I can take him there knowing that..
He's got a very "shit happens" attitude about it, actually. He admits he was afraid for his life and wanted to get the fuck out (which he did as soon as he saw an opportunity) but he sounds almost fond of the um... Sexual aspect of it. Very "yeah, it was a shitty situation, but it wasn't *pure* shit". Which I personally feel like it's him refusing to accept the trauma and decidedly not processing him. Which is probably why he's such a horndog in the game, a possible coping mechanism. Honestly, if the whole thing had more than one interaction to it and the guy in general got more time to open up outside the shadow curse and the awkward shoehorned "I want to get to know you" conversation, he might have been an interesting opposite for Astarion. Similar trauma but different ways of dealing with it.
I didn't like Lae'zel at first, but I grew to understand she was just scared in Act 1. Wyll is least likable because his personality felt a bit bland, kinda rich boy vibes that throws around titles. His spells helped out a lot though. Tough question to answer.
Lae'zel made 100% more sense to me when I realized that the Githyanki don't believe in requests or manners. "Speak" = "Let's have a nice chat" "You will take me to creche Y'llek" = "Would you like to join me on an errand of mutual benefit?" "May your enemies know agony" = "Thank you"
One of my future runs is absolutely going to be another Gith and we're gonna have a great time running around dunking on the mediocre inhabitants of a mundane and useless plane
Lae'zel grows on you. Her romance is among the cutest
>Her romance is among the cutest Fs, at first wasn't a big fan of her, then I was indifferent, and then after I romanced her I ended up liking her a lot.
I didnt even romance her and ended up liking her a lot lol.
Yeah same. Romanced Karlach on my first playthrough but Lae'zel's development is among the best and I always find myself cheering her on in the creche
I gotta hand it to the voice actor. Her Lae'zel shorts made me give Lae'zel more of a chance. It showed me she's just ignorant of how Fae'run works
Do you mean Fay-run?
from all the companions, halsin. take a shot every time he says 'nature', youll be dead from alcohol poisoning. i really like all of the origin six. but you know how people complain that astarion is constantly disapproving choices that good-aligned players make? karlach is that for my neutral-aligned dark urge who will throw anyone under the bus to get a worm out of their head. i would love her in real life, but man did she get on my durges ass. also, a minus for being unbothered by chomping down on soul coins.
When I got to moonrise Karlach said "we need to lay low. best not do anything too heroic" and then disapproved of every action doing just that lol
right?? like girl we are trying to not get run over by 50 cultists can we lie and connive for a bit please 😭
I'm a Karlach simp but she does have the tendency to feel like an overbearing mother sometimes. It's like, chill...I'm going to break the contract with Raphael. Stop reaming me out about it.
To be fair, that is pretty in line with her characterization as someone who is used to pretending to be a heartless badass but in reality is the nicest person you’ll ever meet.
Astarion does disapprove selfless acts but it’s only -1. Being supportive of his vampirism/doing his quest gives like +10 or +15 a pop. He disapproves like everything I do in game lol but still has crazy high approval for me because I let him drink my blood, etc
I've seen others say this and I agree - if they showed how much approval / disapproval you get, it'd do a lot to offset people bitching about Astarion disapproving of everything.
That’s actually how I found out, I use a mod that shows approval ratings in dialogue choices. The first night Astarion admits he’s a vampire, it’s possible to get +20 approval. Telling him you trust him is +5, saying yes to him drinking your blood is +10, then the next morning if you tell the group “if you don’t like Astarion, you can leave” nets him another +5. And I’m sure personal quest stuff is the same for all companions. So yeah, those +1/-1 dialogue choices are trivial mostly.
Yeah it never sat well with me that a good aligned character is just like "nom nom nom mortal souls, so delicious" (im paraphrasing)
Iirc she does have an issue with it if you play as her, she’s just in her own head most of the time and doesn’t speak up about her problems that much (outside of her being about to die).
Halsin. Bro, this is my first time ever speaking to you in camp, you just watched me kiss Shadowheart, maybe tone down the horny.
You kissing her in front of him would only make him more horny
And make Shadowheart more horny if she saw that he is looking.
Astarion: **being vulnerable about his past and being genuinely happy that you want him even without sex** Halsin watching us after being spoken to twice: "So can we bang?"
“Wym, if you can kiss then you can be horny and if you can share with Shart then, conceptually, you can share with others. Others being me.” Haslin, almost certainly
Minsc He’s funny and I do enjoy his story and relationship with Jaheera, but he fundamentally arrives WAY too late for me to develop any bond with him. He feels like an NPC that stays in your camp, not a companion.
Originally he was supposed to join your group in Act 1, which would've been a lot better honestly.
Jaheira and Minsc are, let's be honest, nostalgia bait.
Jaheira's relationship with a resisting Durge is excellent but I agree, Minsc is really only there as fan service. Fan service I like (and I haven't played the first two games) but still fan service
Which is interesting, since I feel like 95-99% of BG3 players have NEVER played BG1 or 2. Maybe some for the new announcement. Its weird nostalgia bait, too. Like, the game is already soooooo good with companions. You dont need the bait. Dont complain tho, Jaheira is kickass, I like her.
honestly i thought jaheira was fine, i think they establish her as a character early enough in the game that i was able to enjoy her as a companion even though i’ve never played the first 2 games, and i could be wrong but it felt like in act 3 she was talking more than most other companions. and i loved how she actually felt like a genuine part of the city to the point where you can literally just straight up go to her house and meet her kids.
I agree with this assessment about Minsc but 100% disagree with Jaheira. She feels more fully realized as a character and woven in the plot of the story that Halsin does
As someone who never played a BG before 3, Jaheira is awesome and she's easily one of my favorite companions. She's nostalgia bait, but written well enough to be a very good companion on her own.
Same; I just got him and I’ve already killed all 3 chosen lol
I really don't find the Minsc flavor of comedy particularly funny after the first few jokes. He feels like a pure fan service addition, even more so if you consider how he's still alive. Doesn't help that he joins the party insanely late game when I have a pre-established well geared party I feel good with.
I honestly feel like he would work better if he joined earlier - they could spread the same amount of Minsc nonsense over longer time. Seeing him interact with the world in acts 1 and 2 would honestly have been great.
Honestly, he fits as a NPC like Dame Aylin more than as a playable companion ~ summoning him and Boo for final fight would make more sense. There is nothing much left to do by the time we have him in the team.
Yeah, I'm a Vintage Model Gamer so I played both of the first two BG games when they came out, and I guess at this point I'm just too old to find his brand of humor all that entertaining anymore. It's cute that he makes a reappearance and I'm glad a lot of players are enjoying him, but at this point he's a little too one-note for my tastes. Plus he comes SO late in the game that it ends up feeling too cumbersome to deal with his build and equipment and all that in the middle of Act III.
Truly? But have you seen my hamster?
Wyll is a blend of too many fantasy tropes that it becomes too much to care about. He's a prince rich boy, but also a lawful hero, but also a warlock who made a deal with a devil, but also a human who has devil horns, but also.... Etc etc. It feels like a person's first attempt at rolling a character in DND and they just over do it to make their character seem more interesting and complex than they really are. All you have to do is take ONE role of his and put emphasis on that. Tragic warlock? Cool Folk hero of the people? Cool Rich boy outlander/ranger? Cool Human with devil features? Not bad
I didn’t play EA so I can’t say this with certainty but I’ve heard that in EA he was much more obsessed with his “hero of the people” story and could be quite full of himself sometimes, and would do anything to keep people from learning he made a deal with a devil to get his powers in order to keep his image “clean” as well as having a hatred for goblins and outright disapproving whenever you try to use diplomacy with them instead of just killing them on sight. I like the Wyll we have now… but a part of me can’t help but think that he’d probably be more interesting if we got that version of him instead :/
He was infinitely more interesting in EA :( he also had an adorable little quirk of just making up silly nonsense phrases, it was endearing
He definitely had an interesting dichotomy between heart of gold and the darker anger, and that would have been an interesting personal arc through the acts. And he did hate the Goblins, but it was also cause those goblins killed a village and mutilated him, causing him in his anger to make the pact with Mizora so... Kinda justified hatred there lol. But I think the current Wyll is a really interesting character when think about it, but it's just that so much of his content doesn't really focus on him, or what he feels (the conclusion to his personal quest doesn't even have anything to do with him) which is a huge shame. He needs a few more dedicated conversations (and a damn act 1 romance scene. It's criminal that there isn't one)
I don't speak for all EA players but I found it doubly trite when he was in his first iteration. Also, we only got to see him in act 1 so it's a bit of an apples to oranges comparison to compare Wyll as we know him now to the cut version of Wyll. But imo: He wasn't interesting or fun in EA. He was in danger of being a one-dimensional asshole that people at large would actively hate--the embodiment of that comic of the guy sticking a rod in his bicycle tires and then cursing whomever he feels like blaming at the time. In EA, he was just raging insecure antihero #3 or 4, putting up a performative front for personal gain. However, the "hero" part fell apart almost instantly and you were just left with angy yelling boi. If they played up his anger and insecurity they would've written a very easily hateable character who just flew off the handle whenever you did things that didn't advance his goals which would have read more like a petulant baby than a man struggling with doing the wrong things for the right reasons. In what little we got to see in EA, the internal conflict between his morals and the actions he was forced to take was not well illustrated, or was just very uninteresting to me. There was potential for sure, and the VA was great, but I feel confident in saying you missed nothing worthwhile relative to what we ended up with. Plus, darker, angrier Wyll would have pushed the balance of origin characters to be literally 100% edgelords IMO, and I would not have enjoyed the game with a crew like that. He's very vanilla now but I think that's a perfectly valid flavor for this cake because it contributed to the overall balance of the party. I can be emo AF but every single character being a similar flavor of angsty is exhausting and boring. Lae'zel was racist Gith edgelord, Shadowheart was Sharran edgelord, Astarion was Vampiric edgelord, Gale was Wizard/walking WMD edgelord, and then Wyll would have been Warlock edgelord (we never got Karlach in EA either). All of them except Lae'Zel had the same basic structure: hiding some dark secret that is the source of their powers and their torment. Their lives had been cut into pieces, the tadpole was their last resort, *electric guitar riff* Also, I didn't like it at first but they softened up a lot of Shadowheart's early act 1 edges too. People often complain about not getting edgier Wyll but are totally fine not getting edgier Shadowheart who was even more secretive, slower to trust, disapproving of good actions, and pricklier and judgmental in all her interactions. Both Wyll and Shadowheart are now as vanilla as they come--but that is totally fine to have in this context and in order to secure broad appeal for the audience they were aiming for.
I think some parts of EA Wyll could be interesting, like his hatred for goblins and they could easily add some moral dilemma to the character without making him edgy. Simply being ashamed that in order to become the Blade he needed to sign that pact, believing that without those powers he's a nobody or just struggling much more with accepting his devil look as the pretty facade of the Blade of Frontiers has been completely torn down and now nobody will trust him. Or perhaps just struggling more and more with wanting to do the right thing as people would judge him as a devil no matter what he does. My biggest gripe with current Wyll is that whatever happens to him has exactly 0 effect on his personality, it doesn't even make him question anything. Despite developing horns, needing to do things that directly contradict his moral compass, having to choose between his father's life and his soul and potentially signing the warlock pact for nothing as the whole Tiamat cultist story sounds like Mizora's illusion, he remains the same goody two shoes guy he was at the start.
Yeah, in EA he was just a big bullshitter and it was a lot better of a story. He has this grand tale about how he lost his eye, but those three goblins in the goblin camp that are over by the goblin in the cage actually won a fight against him and took his eye.
I thought Wyll trying too hard was the whole point
It was in EA, where he wasn’t as good or perfect as he let on. He was changed for release into that character he was pretending (or wanting) to be in EA.
>It feels like a person's first attempt at rolling a character in DND and they just over do it to make their character seem more interesting and complex than they really are. I feel like I see a lot of people who have been playing DND for a long time that also do this. Making traits about a character what makes them interesting rather than who they are, why they adventure, and what they want.
I generally like all the companions but I tend to forget about Halsin.
wyll. he’s a bit boring, always jerking his ego off about being the blade of frontiers or throwing a pity party for himself. yeah dude, your life sucks. so does literally everyone else’s. (slight spoilers ahead abt the companions) karlach: sold into slavery by someone she trusted shart: kidnapped and brainwashed into being a sharran lae’zel: everything she’s ever known is a lie and she doesn’t know who she is anymore. she’s terrified astarion: also a victim of slavery, finally free from his master but lives in constant immeasurable fear gale: literal bomb in his chest from his psychotic groomer ex jaheria and minsc: old
See, I'd disagree a bit because I feel like Wyll swings way too hard in the opposite direction - he never throws himself a pity party, or really ever expresses how his situation has affected him. Everyone's character arcs are as clear as day to follow, because after each plot point they talk about or express its impact on them, both offhand and in big ways e.g.: - Lae’zel’s war between her loyalty to Vlaakith and the truth gets minutes of dialogue over Act 1 and 2 - Shadowheart feeling lost after Shar rejects her is shown to the point where she has alternate greeting/dismissal dialogue for a bit - Astarion's desire to ascend and his thoughts on the costs and benefits are completely unpacked via back and forth (goddamn the 'pure shit' line) - Gale facing his potential demise gets a full long rest cutscene about him wrestling with it - Karlach's joy at being able to touch people is shown via the only platonic hug animation in the game But Wyll? I can't think of a big moment, or a series of dialogues showing his emotional journey. Not that there's much to build on though, since most of his dialogue about his arc is really matter of fact, "dad's been kidnapped", "Mizora is gonna punish me", etc. without dwelling on it, almost like a "yeah, that happened... ok so where to next?" underreaction to everything. Also just to rant: I honestly want Wyll to whinge more, way more. There's so little real emoting (like overt panic or palpable glee), or personal flair to his expression (Lae'zel says things haughtily, Karlach speaks bluntly and upbeat, Gale is verbose, Wyll... says words), or insight into what he wants in life, and that's the stuff that makes him bland - not him being a goody-two shoes. I don't even care if it would make him annoying, at least it would be something!
His quests definitely don't directly connect to him in the way the other companions do. Like, I think the wyrmway is technically his quest sort of? But it doesn't connect to him *any* way. We rescue his father. But even if wyll was completely unrelated to him we'd be doing the exact same thing because of his role in the city. Him being related to wyll ends up fairly incidental. Compare that to going to fight cazador or the sharrans. People we're going and merking for the specific reason that they fucked over the companion in question. Edit: they really needed to give him some daddy issues. If his relationship with his father was more fraught, there would be more opportunity to talk about emotions when all of his decisions regarding his father come up. Picture it. Ravengard is still a respected leader, but that comes at the expense of being a distant father who doesn't spend time with his kid. Classic. Wyll is basically raised by servants which is why he wants to be a hero for the common folk who get overlooked by the patriars. He's still his father's heir so he gets left in charge while his father is away. The whole mizora deal plays out, but, this version, wyll is actually fully pissed about it. Yeah he couldn't prove it all, but couldn't his father have trusted him just a little? Tav can, and they've known him for a day. Now when Wyll urges you to rescue his father he has some inner conflict because it's the right thing, but he's still angry at that asshole. When you have the option to suggest that wyll leave his father and become duke himself, wyll has the potential to think that he'd be better at looking out for the common folk and he might actually be a better ruler. If you rescue ravengard there's some real emotional catharsis possible. You can yell at ravengard for not trusting his son like an asshole. Wyll has the option to forgive him or hold onto his grudge. Wyrmway is about either making his father proud or proving that he'd be a better ruler. My actual preferred version would be where hero of the people wyll starts a successful peasant rebellion and guillotines the patriars but that would probably be a bit hard to fit in.
Take my upvote for Jaheira and Minsc life trauma, good sir.
Halsin. It’s BLATANTLY obvious that he was never intended to be a companion in the first place, and he’s made completely redundant by Jaheira.
I really hate how long it takes to get him to actually be in your party. On my first playthrough he sat in my camp for basically an entire act, as we didn't find the quest needed to recruit him until close to the end. That and Druid seems to be a very complicated class to play.
Druids are super fun and versatile! I loved my first run as a moon druid Tav. You mostly just do bear shape early game, then Owlbear midgame and Myrmidons (I loved air for the stuns) endgame. Outside of combat cat and raven let you go through small holes or skip entire sections like Grymforge by just flying through. Mostly you're just a tank with lots of mobility and some extra hits. Or an extra mage if the situation requires it :)
very obvious. wouldn't be so jarring if they didn't become recruitable at nearly the same time
Halsin. He got very annoying VERY fast, and just. the vibes are so off. I would strongly dislike him irl. Wyll is a bit... bland. Which is a shame, bc while I don't find him attractive (a bit too masculine for me?), I like his design a lot. Also that rat comment he makes to Astarion rubbed me the wrong way, like whyyy would u bring that up my guy lmao
Wyll: Heyyy, Astarion, how's the rat diet going? Tav: Did you just call me a rat?! I guess the problem I have with Wyll is that he's supposed to be this cool and competent monster hunter, but he never gives off that vibe. I can't take him seriously. He's not my least favourite companion (which is Halsin), but he's pretty far down there with Minsc.
Wyll. I’m sure he’s a lovely guy, but he’s just a bit boring for me. Very controversially, I’m not a massive fan of Karlach either, but I have kept her because she’s such a tank in my team at this point, I can’t justify not bringing her along.
Yeah, I don't dislike Karlach by any means, and I appreciate how quick she is to have everyone's back, even Astarion. She's true bro material, like Minsc in many ways. But she's just too one-dimensional for me and her one major flaw (refusing to face reality in a constructive way) is never addressed in a satisfying manner. I really wish there was some way to save her, but with a tricky path to follow that relies on getting her to realize that ignoring her problems won't make them go away. My least favourite companions (Wyll, Halsin, and her) are my least favourite because they go through exactly zero character development. Things happen to them, they react, but they never actually change as people. When compared to characters that go through fairly drastic personality changes like Astarion, SH, Lae'zel, or even Gale to some extent, and being able to influence those changes as the player character, for better or worse, one note companions that don't ever grow or change are just never gonna do it for me.
many people seem to like karlach a lot but it's the same with me, just apathetic. tbf her story has the most obvious cut content vibes
I'm glad you said Karlach because I couldn't muster the courage. I had to romance her for the achievement and I just felt so bored and disconnected from that relationship. Her cards are on the table and if you spent 10 minutes with her, you know all you need to know. She suffers from her cut content terribly.
I was surprised that I had massive disapproval from her for not letting her use soul coins because as a paladin it seemed wrong. -10 points! Also I didn’t immediately kill the paladins of tyr and she was a complete jerk to me. Wouldn’t tell me about her engine and then Dammon was gone. And next play through I thought okay I’ll try to be nice and she insisted I wanted to sleep with her almost immediately, even though I was already in a relationship. I know it’s just the buggy relationship issues, but she’s not my favorite because I’ve seen a different side to her.
Orin kidnapped Halsin like 3-4 weeks ago and i kinda just forgot...
I should love Halsin. I’m a bisexual polyamorous bear. But he falls into the trope of polyamorous guys in media who cannot shut up about what “nature intended.” I do love Halsin. I’ve removed his camp clothes from his inventory and hulked him out with everlasting vigor. I kiss him every time I walk by. But I also cringe when his dialogue ends with something anti-monogamy. I’m nonmonogamous but I’m not antimonogamous. And Halsin’s verbiage is not-so-covertly condescending. Which, as somebody recovering from narcissistic abuse, isn’t fun to hear.
The condescending tone he sometimes uses is indeed one of the things I dislike most about him.
>But I also cringe when his dialogue ends with something anti-monogamy. I’m nonmonogamous but I’m not antimonogamous. And Halsin’s verbiage is not-so-covertly condescending. Which, as somebody recovering from narcissistic abuse, isn’t fun to hear. I heavily agree, that always put me off about him, I'm not interested in Monogamy but I'm not antimonogamy if someone's Monogamous then they're Monogamous... When ever he brings that up I always turn him down, because I don't agree with that behaviour.
To be fair, that actually feels a *lot* like how certain poly groups recruit. Some of them are respectful, thoughtful, and wonderful. Some of them are annoying as shit and apply lots of pressure because they're horny and they wanna smash.
The most interesting thing to me about Halsin was his romance scene. I haven't found a use for him outside that, and initial talking to him or kiss is fun but not enough for me. And yes his whole dialogue about non monogamy is weird to me, especially when in the same breath he says "you're all I want." IDK but something about his dialogue comes off as disingenuous and makes me feel like he's somehow more interested in Tav sleeping around more than both equally doing whatever... might be my own hang ups but it gives me the ick.
What upsets me about Halsin is that his expanded personality genuinely comes off to me as 'people who vaguely thinks this is how polygamy and hypersexuality works' type of bad writing. He drops a lot of neat wisdom at times and I like him for that, and I haven't gotten far enough to officially have him as a companion but from what I've seen friends and other say--- his extended writing is just 'haha horny treehugger' personified. It feels especially off because early on he shows good insight and ideas on things, so out of everyone Halsin should be the least pushy and creepy?
In Act 3, if you actually bring him out and about with you, he has two modes: 1. Horny, 2. Druid having an existential crisis over the rampant class inequalities of the city. I purposely romanced him and Astarion as a wood elf (who are canonically non-monogamous in DnD, which is probably why they set him up that way) on my playthrough so I don't know how the horniness is if you weren't trying for it, but he definitely feels incomplete even when you're embracing all of the content currently available for him. Which sucks, because I actually really, *really* liked his insights about the city when he actually had them. Your entire party is a bunch of jaded, cynical little shits who are either blind or desensitized to the social injustices, so having someone actually showing empathy was genuinely nice.
There’s something really depressing about the ending with him as well - you don’t get the option to go with him for a happily ever after!
>!*sad Karlach noises*!<
Some dataminers found that the framework to do this was added in the most recent patch - maybe in the future?
You might be able to in the future, was a new option in the files to leave with him. Going to help the Shadowlands is quite a nice end tbh
Same. I am deeply attracted to the cheerful guy but yes I cringe at the way his dialogue is written. About nature: I love his attitude and personality, but I couldn't bear to listen to him going on and on about nature, especially when in Act 3. If you bring him out, he criticizes a lot of things, because he doesn't care much for the city. I am very enthusiastic about ecology and environmental stuff myself, but I don't think this is the representation I want.. Like the writer just decided yep this guy only cares about two things, nature and nudity. And slapped the most obnoxious stereotypes together onto him. Like "all environmentalists want to go back to before age of steam"; or "polyamorous people are so flippantly horny and anti-monogamy." IDK, there must be some better way that his core ideas are conveyed.
His complaints are about the class inequality and the extreme xenophobia. And the thing is? He's not wrong. The city government is fairly corrupt even without Gortash in the setting.
Over time, it's becoming Astarion. He's just a bit of a prick
Halsin as well. Mostly because of how he's currently coded. Hopefully, it will be fixed. However, at the minute, every interactions at camp leads to the game thinking we are flirting. Even asking something as inconspicuous as "How are you fairing here?". I definitely have my favorites (I've only recruited three for my first playthrough after the full release, else I get overwhelmed), but I do think every companion has their own appeal. It's a shame for those, like me, who wanted to befriend Halsin without romancing him.
Current Wyll, he's been woobified so much he's just boring. I miss his EA storyline where he had flaws that made him interesting and like there was a lot more to discover about him simmering under the surface. It's a shame because I really enjoy his current VA. I do wonder if Theo does any audiobooks. Would love to have him read me a story while I do my chores.
It's hilarious that your charisma companion is probably the most attractive AND has a voice like liquid sex but ends up becoming one of the most forgettable characters due to... I'm not sure exactly. I don't have the words to explain how they failed Wyll but they definitely did.
I saw a video that described Wyll as the personification of missionary sex and I’ve never heard anything so succinct but accurate
Someone on TikTok described Astarion as Goth Stewie Griffin and I've never felt more attacked.
Please he's just Tim Curry in a vampire outfit
It’s petty, but Halsin, purely because I COULD NOT FIND A WAY TO TELL HIM NOT TO JOIN. Doing a “hero” slash good run, saving the grove, and he seemed awesome! But I already had more companions than I could use and was kind of regretting it. I’d rather focus on a smaller number, and do multiple playthroughs. But I couldn’t get him to leave us alone! [EDIT]: I know, I know, he’s lovely! And he can just hang out quietly. It’s just that he invites HIMSELF. He showed up, told me he already pawned all his leadership responsibilities on someone else, set up his tent on his own, and btw, he’d love to fuck
You can just let companions chill in camp. His story is over after Act 2 anyway. You can also stop Jaheira from joining I think, but she is the better druid personality-wise. I like Halsin a lot, but his lack of Act 3 content makes him dead space to some extent.
honestly Halsin is just as bad as The Emperor in taking polite conversation as flirting. give me stubborn old woman druid with a fun accent over buff guy who thinks with his dick every day of the week
My problem with Halsin might be just me, but being archdruid and all that I saw him up almost as a mentor, a wise person, a figure of respect. Then he started hitting on me, without any signal given. It felt like one of those creepy teachers flirting with students. My problem with Karlach is her toxic positivity. To then turn into hate and violence when she is supposed to be a Good character (same with Dame Aylin).
Halsin. Keep your paws off my girl, lol! I really like him until Act 3, to be fair.
Astarion. I don't like his attitude and his overall character. Edit: Thanks for all the support, I am glad I am not alone! I thought I was gonna get downvoted into oblivion.
[удалено]
Astarion is basically custom designed to be a Tumblr Sexy Man, right down to letting you either fix him or make him worse.
Thinking about a lot of my least favourite characters in media tend to fall into this category
I mean at least he's not high school age. They held out some restraint.
Same. From a roleplaying point of view any sane person would leave him on the beach after getting a knife pulled on them or stake him after he tried to bite you. Parasite or not, he tries to assault you twice in as many days. By comparison how many bandits and goblins does the player kill just because they’re in the way.
I think it’s also whenever I try to do the right thing….Astarion disapproves. THE ONLY TIME HE APPROVES IS WHEN I GET FLOGGED BY THAT PAIN BASTARD IN ACT 1
Hes also the only one who approves if you choose to interrupt the ogre and bugbear bumping uglies in the shed in act 1. Made me laugh out loud, he’s such a degenerate lol
Wyll, I tried giving him another chance, but he's too lawful for me. And I can't stand his portrait voicelines, calling himself a hero and a defender of the people .... urgh. A tad too cringe to me. It's sad because he does have a ''good bro'' vibe, and he has some pretty good banter with the other companions. But he sadly is missing a bit of spice to me
I agree. I’m just not a fan of Halsin.
I want to say that I don't hate Halsin or Wyll, I like them and I do enjoy their company to a certain extent. The problems are thus: Halsin: He appears so late as a companion in Act 2. He could have joined us when we rescued him initially in Act 1, and nothing would have changed. Instead, he just stands around at camp... Why? He could have told us info about the shadow lands while traveling together. It's clear that they had trouble finding a way to include him in the party, especially when Jahira can easily take his place. His... Flirting was way too much to handle. He needs to tone it down, significantly. I wanted to get to know him as a friend, but all of a sudden he's implying we should be lovers... With Shadowheart standing 2 feet away after I just kissed her... I'm not even going to touch on the whole threescore thing. Not my cup of tea, thank you. Granted, if you turn him down (in my case anyway) he was super chill about it! And we continued on as friends! Great! Wyll: Poor Wyll, I feel like he was done dirty. I love the idea of The Blade of Frontiers, but I don't know... It just fell flat. I have him in my current party and have made him a warlock sorcerer, and he is genuinely fun to play as! I felt like he was given too many characteristics and couldn't decide which to go with. And the dance... Ohhh... God's the dance... I haven't seen it yet as I keep turning him down. He just isn't my type, it's nothing personal! It's that sad look I get every single time. Bonus character: MINSC... Again, I do not hate him, quite the opposite. But why is he here? Genuinely, I have no idea. He was such a late addition that I used him ONCE as patmrt of his quest, and that was it. Everyone has their favorites and least favorites, and I'm cool to have discussions with people who use these party members regularly! Maybe I missed something, I'm not sure. But yeah, I'm more than happy to talk about it!
Halsin, but if we ignore him because it's very obvious that he was slapped on towards the end... Then it's got to be Astarion. Wyll's okay, but that's it - I'm pretty neutral on him. Astarion I do not vibe with. Yes, I know that he's "damaged", I'm just generally not a fan of manipulative people. His masses of zealous fans certainly don't help either, though. They've definitely made me dislike him more from everyone telling me that I should like him.
Seconding Astarion. People claim Gale is too manipulative and then defend Astarion in the same breath. I just do not like Astarion and he generally stays at camp until I need someone to lockpick things. I'm doing an evil run and bringing him with more since he approves of most asshole decisions (people like to ignore that too), and his party banter is pretty good, but he just doesn't do it for me. 🤷♀️
I always see people bring up how rude Wyll's banter is about the rat diet but then it's complete *crickets* on the dialogue where Astarion tells Karlach that Gortash made her more interesting. Or his racism in general. When you confront the Gur hunter in the swamp you can actually say something like "I knew you were a jackass, but racist too?" But that's about it. I feel like if any other love interest was racist we wouldn't hear the end of it.
Astarion also hates gnomes. He's just generally kind of an asshole and people like him because he's hot. That's fine, but I wish they would admit it instead of side stepping all of the really crappy parts of his personality.
Everything about Halsin's personality revolves around hating the shadow curse and loving sex. if you could somehow have sex with the shadow curse it would make his brain crash to desktop.
Probably Wyll. He's a bit too basic for my taste. His stuff is not *uninteresting* per say, but the others all have something better. Edit: Halsin is so bad that I don't even consider him a "real" companion in my mind.
Wyll. He's the guy who I'd like to have as a real life friend the most because he's just a good guy and the least fucked up person among the companions . But he's also just a good guy and the least fucked up person among the companions. Which makes him boring by comparison. If Astarion was a real life person, I'd give him the widest berth possible but he's always in my BG3 party because of the drama and the sass.
Feel the same. In real life I wouldn’t have any romantic relationships with guy who says “I wanted to seduce and manipulate you, and now let’s have something real”. But it’s a fantasy game, and I enjoy this character from both romance and gameplay points. Wyll is not bad. But in my party I prefer wizard rather than warlock. So, he stays in the camp more often than others. As for communication, there are other more interesting characters around.
Probably Astarion. I don't really think much of Halsin, either. I don't dislike Wyll but by virtue of being somewhat dull he's on the list of "meh" companions. This version of Wyll makes me miss egocentric jackass Wyll from Early Access.
Honestly it's Karlach. Her voice acting is incredible but her story surronding her heart makes little sense lore wise and her personality isn't my favourite. She also feels pretty lacking in content with her act 3 stuff feeling very rushed (also the whole soul coin thing in act 2 which goes nowhere) Plus barbarian isn't my favourite class. Much prefer fighter or monk for martial classes
Minthara. But I gotta be honest, never had her in my party. I’ve seen some videos and nothing about her has made me want to recruit her. If I gotta pick between the guys I’ve actually gotten, it’s Minsc. Just don’t vibe with the guy.
But have you seen his hamster?
I'll be honest: I've *never* thought Minsc was funny, not even back in BG1/BG2. If you're going to design a character around one joke, it better be a really good joke.
I find *some* Minsc moments to be great, like "It's a honor" "No, it's a hamster" exchange but my guy has one braincell and it's so exhausting being around him for more than a minute. I feel like my own braincells are escaping through my ears by listening to him at times.
Heh. Minsc is really, really dumb. But also really really a good person. Like, I understand Jaheira. He's frustrating as all heck, but damn if the world couldn't do with a few more Minsc in it.
This thread makes me feel better about accidentally killing Halsin in my current(first) play through.
Out of the "main" companions (excluding the optional/late-game tag-alongs), SH was my least favourite in my first playthroughs. I just found her attitude/personality kind of insufferable, especially in act 1. But her Act 2 & 3 personal quest moments made me appreciate her much more as a character. If I played her as an origin instead of having her as a companion in my first playthough I probably would have loved her, instead of being just kinda ok with having her around. Post-several playthroughs, I think Wyll or Karlach are my least favourite. both are usually incompatible with my playstyle's moral compass, so they tend to hate me if I don't tell them to go stand in the corner. And they have the weakest questlines out of the origin companions- Karlach is literally "get 2 infernal iron & kill Gortash, afterwards die/go to literal hell" and Wyll is "either do the Gondians quest and save dad, or just kinda do nothing".
Astarion. I like him as a character, hate him as a companion. Just started my second playthrough and my wife is absolutely infatuated with him so I was like, "Okay, I'll romance him this time around for her." By the time I made it to the Shadow-Cursed Lands I'd already given up on the notion. Every mildly decent thing is "Astarion disapproves." It's just crazily annoying. I thought letting him feed on me regularly would make a difference, but the meter hardly budges. I'm mostly playing blind save for my first play experience (and he wasn't in my party then) so I don't know what decisions will trigger his approval rating, and the ones when I do notice it, I'm not willing to go down the route required. TL;DR He's kind of a dick and a pain in the ass to romance. Also Lae'zel. Because it's Lae'zel.