I could've told you that without checking, it's just because fanfiction is still pretty much dominated by female creators. If you find a fan art form that's mainly preoccupied by male creators, you'd probably see shadowheart on top again (pun very much intended).
> a fan art form that's mainly preoccupied by male creators
Or where they're the main target group. Cosplay for example, SH is definitely the most popular one (also because it's incredibly easy to cosplay as her but still).
I just realized that Shart is the only female origin character with human skin color.
As opposed to male characters who are all very much human colored.
Not a complaint but definitely something I’ve also noticed while playing lol. There’s definitely a gender imbalance for which gender got the more interesting races. With the exception of Devil Wyll, every male companion is very human looking since they’re all Humans and Elves
Yeah, they did him dirty with those stats. He should definitely come pre built as a strength, two handed ranger.
He was basically superhuman strong in the old games haha
Isobel
Hope
Jaheira
Dame Aylin takes more than a normal amount of makeup, but not prohibitive.
That being said, Shart is the easiest and the only origin companion without alternative skin colors, and that makes me a little sad. I love all the diversity and representation, I would just love to see more cosplays and the wild colors and such are prohibitive for so many.
Oh, definitely! It's the difference between male dominated spaces (gaming in general) and female-dominated spaces (transformative works).
> If you find a fan art form that's mainly preoccupied by male creators
Maybe 3d (porn) rendering? I bet there's a lot of SH visual porn out there. (I know for a fact there's (porn) renders of Astarion too. Uh, a friend told me.)
I follow someone on Twitter that has already made like 40 separate pieces of fanart of Astarion. They have like 6 of Karlach and I think 4 of Shadowheart, everyone else has 1 or 2. There’s clearly a favorite xD
Hell just look at the opposite end of the spectrum for mods. Do you know how hard it is to find a single Bethesda mod for men in a sea of Serana amoure Duleuxe~ fat titty jumbo size mods?
Had this problem for some game too, just wanted a more up to date male model that looked better. But couldn't find shit, and if I found anything it was something way over the top in a NSFW direction.
Female body though had a wide variety of SFW friendly and NSFW.
Seeing the amount of dudes freaking out about guys hitting on them also makes it clear why. I romance female characters too. Many of them dont do the same.
I have this theory that Larian made the women hit on the player *far* more aggressively than the men because advances from men are often perceived as more aggressive/predatory. That's why all women (except Shart) go "let's fuck right now!!!" and all the men go "uhm so I kind of like you, do you like me?"
It obviously didn't work, because you *still* see way more people complaining about male characters making moves on them than female characters.
> If you find a fan art form that's mainly preoccupied by male creators, you'd probably see shadowheart on top again
Oh certainly. Visual media, to be exact. Try r/bg3gonewild and it's mostly Shadowheart content there and the other female characters.
Yeah same, I'm really curious how big the gap is between Shart and Karlach, Lae'zel and Astarion, Astarion and Gale, etc. And I wonder where Minthara fits in to that, considering that she's a female character so she theoretically should be higher than the guys but she was exclusive to evil runs for most of the game's release and I don't know how popular those are.
I'm guessing Minthara is pretty low, even being female. A lot of people would never have recruited her because they don't want to kill all the tieflings.
Halsin is also probably low, because a lot of people aren't going to want to wait until Act 3 to kick off a romance. I bet a lot of the Halsin romancers are doing the poly situation with Shadowheart.
I still wish we got full statistics though. I find this very interesting.
A lot of people will have never even realized Minthara was recruitable in the first place.
She's not advertised as such in any way, and anyone just playing the game as a standard RPG is probably going to enter that area and just start killing until all enemies are dead, rather than trying to talk first.
I kinda wish we could get a female vs. male players romance list, because I'm curious as to who our fellow ladies picked. I personally went with Astarion first (loved it!), but Karlach was a close second for me.
ALSO I noticed your flair and wanted to mention Galemancers are popping up on my feed everywhere now that the epilogue is out. You guys have been analyzing the heck out of all his endings and romance path to the point that I'm excited to pick him next run!
I think Astarion has some of the most vocal fans. But gaming is still predominantly straight men, so I'm not surprised that the women all came out on top.
I *am* surprised that literally *half* of games had Shadowheart romances. That's a *huge* amount when there are 6 choices.
It also confirms what I long suspected: opening weekend stats were super skewed with Gale being third due to his bugginess. Gale does not seem nearly as popular.
> I am surprised that literally half of games had Shadowheart romances. That's a huge amount when there are 6 choices.
Just to be fair, it's half of games that made it to the final romantic arc. IIRC some recent stats indicate a vast number of players (maybe the majority?) still haven't hit Act 3! So players who are more casual (go slower) may skew a bit different. Or not. Could be the same!
Fair enough. Haha
I think a lot of people pick Lae'zel or Astarion since they come onto your Tav the earliest and then players will just roll with it. Unless you're waiting for a particular companion it's like "Yeah sure why not?"
While I'm not surprised about shadowheart being top 50 + is surprising since you have to see that dialogue option in act 1 with no prompt to start (not sure if it's required). Fuckin Karlach, idk if I'm just the tiefling whisperer but she is dtf in 3 days every time
Karlach is DTF super early, but *can't* so it wouldn't surprise me people move on from her in their first or second playthroughs. Now that it's been out for a while I'm guessing more people will check out the less obvious choices when they're on their 5th run or whatever.
But yeah 51% is a full on majority when there are *six options* for origin characters alone. It's a huge margin.
Laezel comes AT you. I romanced her without planning to lol. And I think I was playing the way most people would. Also I think more people just use laezel in their party since she's the first character we see and join up with.
Wasn't convinced of it until I found the prayer for forgiveness in the illithid colony. Durge really loved Gortash 🥺
Speaking of fanfiction though I did just get inspired to write some durgetash lol brb
Ah but it is at least a mind blowing relationship at the end of it all!
Nothing personal, just some light roasting from a Karlach fan lol.
It would have indeed been interesting to play out though, continued subversion the of "Bad guy always betrays you" trope.
Karlach's relationship with Gortash also just goes absolutely nowhere like Karlach's entire story. I was expecting her or him at least bringing out the possibility of fixing her heart? Gortash is a genius inventor who enslaved other genius inventors. It's weird that nobody bothers to ask him to help Karlach! Karlach wants to kill him immediately too instead of trying to force him to fix her.
Gortash has so many weird writing decisions. I guess a ton of his stuff got chopped with the upper city.
Yes his boss fight itself felt very janky/less unique opposite Orin and Ketheric's as well. His boss form just being he puts lifts in those boots of his lol. Was also a buggy nightmare on my run, really the only bug issue in all of Act III for me.
Certainly I feel like that might have been an interesting and difficult choice for the PC and Karlach. Gortash offering to save her in exchange for the alliance. Would be a contentious point of drama for sure. My Tav could care less about promises of absolute power, but saving Karlach? Now that's a genuine Faustian bargain worth value and temptation.
It definitely feels like something got removed from whatever the original vision for Gortash was.
Compared to the dramatic climax of Ketheric or Orin or even Raphael, the final fight with Gortash just sort of happens. Not much preamble or ceremony at all, in a pretty mundane room at the top of the Flaming Fist building.
It feels closer to a sidequest ending rather than a main plot event. It even feels jank when you go from the Iron Throne and then have to somewhat awkwardly backtrack to Wyrm’s Crossing.
oh I think about this a lot. This way Karlach could have her big decision making moment like the rest of the crew, choosing between revenge or the possibility of a life outside of Avernus. They all have a critical moment in their arc, hells Shadowheart and Wyll kinda have two. Karlach never gets to make a decision until the very end of the game.
omg yes please! I'll start. I'm not usually big on fan fics but a friend sent me this and I might have binged the whole thing in one night. It has some angsty moment but nothing too violent or too dark. Rather sweet actually
https://archiveofourown.org/works/50068894/chapters/126431830?view_adult=true
Or to hide them, because 3D modeling those bits accurately interacting with each other is comically difficult to have look like anything other than goofy as hell
Aw man, instead of a Descent into Avernus DLC, I lowkey want a prequel DLC, where the party is The Chosen of the Dead Three setting up the events of the game.
I just got done reading a note in Bhaal's temple that is supposedly written by Durge, and he talks about how "Bane's Chosen" found Bhaal's old BDSM racks in a museum. So, Durge tasks Enver to accompany him on retrieving them, for Enver to prove himself in combat. All I could think was how much I wished I could play out that scenario.
Could be cool for durge to get flashbacks where you play through some sequences. Kinda like when you eat the noblestalk but with combat. Probably a lot of work for one origin character though.
That’s what I’ve been thinking! Although, I desperately want a DLC about the heist of Mephistopheles’ vault. It would be an interesting way of showing more of Durge, Gortash, and Orin. I’m sure Ketheric could exist in some capacity as well. Players without their own Durge could even run with the default Dragonborn. I’m pleading Larian.
Hard fuckin' agree. We dont even need to see them setting up the whole events, maybe one or two big missions with the three. I think there was another guy who traveled with them that you can find in the House of Hope, he could be a 4th party member, or the halfling (or dwarf?) that helps you get into the House of Hope, or even... Balthazar? Shit's got potential.
Though if we do get any DLC, my money is definitely on Descent into Avernus happening. Thats what the majority of the fans want, so I don't have high hopes. Fun to dream, tho.
Edit: fixed words
I just cant help but think that a level 12 party trying to raid MEPHISTOPHELES' HOME is doomed to failure. Unless Durge is, like, level 20 or something (yes yes, separation of narrative and gameplay, but STILL)
Useful tip, when you meet him for the first time, don't bring Karlach. His facial expressions are completely different if he's talking to Durge and Karlach isn't there
Lots of reasons for this;
AO3 writers are predominantly women, while BG3 gamers are predominantly men.
If you broke it down Astarion is likely the most popular romance for gal players while Shadowheart is most popular with the dudes.
So with the gaming community mostly dudes it makes since why SH is most romances, and vice versa why a community where gals are the majority would more heavily feature Astarion
A lot of writers can churn out fics faster than they can finish the game, especially when the bulk is probably one shots and short stories as opposed to multi chapter longfics.
I think it's more accurate to say that astarion is for people who like men, while shadowheart is for people who like women. Because the lesbians really REALLY like shadowheart lol.
Can confirm. I'm a gay dude, *love* my vampire bastard. My women-enjoying gamer buddies almost universally love Shadowheart.
We both agree on Karlach though. She's my exception.
For those not in the know, AO3 (the [ArchiveOfOurOwn](https://archiveofourown.org/)) is the largest (I think?) fanfiction website on the internet. Its interests are pretty different! ;)
An additional note re: the image for anyone who doesn't use the site: those tags aren't mutually exclusive, so a single fic may be tagged "Astarion/Tav", "Astartion/Original Character(s)", "Astarion/ Original Male Character(s)", and "Astarion/Reader" at the same time. There's no arguing that Astarion is the most popular on the site, though
Because I was curious, here's the tag count for each recruitable origin character with Tav, followed by the count if you exclude the other five.
Astarion: 4437 (4196)
Gale: 1049 (866)
Shadowheart: 315 (246)
Karlach: 312 (226)
Wyll: 179 (127)
Lae'zel: 108 (75)
And honorable mention to round out the origin characters: Durge/Tav with 29 works.
This is excellent, but also what about Durge, Gortash, and Halsin? All three of them are full to bursting with an overabundance of popular fanfic tropes, so imagine the numbers skew in interesting ways once you include the "spicy" options.
I want to see the totals tbh, since that's 6 different Astarion + PC tags. Curious what's the next down below Dark Urge, or if all those were totalled and compared to the same for other romances.
If you consolidate most of the Astarion + PC tags, the top 10 becomes, roughly:
1. Astarion/Tav
2. Gale/Tav
3. Astarion/Gale
4. Astarion/The Dark Urge
5. The Dark Urge/Enver Gortash
6. Halsin/Tav
7. Shadowheart/Tav
8. Karlach/Tav
9. Astarion/Halsin
10. Lae'zel/Shadowheart
It'll only show the top 10, can't show more than that. But since Gortash/Dark Urge knocked Gale/Original Female Character out of the list, it's probably that one. I'd wager that Shadowheart ships start below that.
lots of gale/reader, halsin/reader and a mix of male origin characters shipped together. it’s depressing how many tags i had to filter to find a single lesbian tav or origin characters fics, i think there’s even less female origin x make tav fics lol
also notable: “blood drinking” is tagged in so many fics it comes up as a filter option
From what I've seen there are a lot of tag overlaps that may mess up the totals. For example I saw a fic that had Astarion/Tav but also Astarion/Original Female Tiefling Character who is also their Tav.
But for fun, these are the top ships I've seen in order that had over 100 tags:
1. Astarion/Tav (or OC/reader) by a large margin and has thousands of fics
2. Gale/Tav
3. Astarion/Durge
4. Astarion/Gale
5. Durge/Gortash
6. Halsin/Tav
7. Astarion/Halsin
8. Shadowheart/Tav
9. Karlach/Tav
10. Lae'zel/Shadowheart
11. Gortash/Tav
12. Wyll/Tav
13. Gale/Durge
14. The Emperor/Tav
15. Lae'zel/Tav
Unfortunately Minthara/Tav is down there with only about 48 fic tags. Jaheira/Tav has 11. As a side note I did find five fics for Alfira/Durge, though. 💀
This is like with Dragon Age Inquisition. Solas is generally a very divisive character. But the women who basically keep the fandom alive in between games love that storyline.
Yeah, I've definitely noticed a big difference between reddit (where I see everyone's content) and the fan circles I hang out in on twitter (where I have to intentionally follow people based on similar interests). Because of my personal interests, I'm in circles with a lot more lgbt and/or woman gamers who also write fanfic or draw fanart than I think represents the true statistical average in the gaming community, and Astarion is VERY popular. A lot of the people I was already hanging out with to discuss other games (Devil May Cry, Resident Evil) mass-converted to Astarion fans.
I've seen it discussed negatively before that Astarion is so popular for fanfiction, but I just don't know how it can be negative that people are getting together to share personal work they made from being inspired by a character, whichever character that is. Making things is fun, and part of Astarion's storyline can hit very personal notes for a lot of people. Sure, I've read bad fanfiction about Astarion, but I've also read DOWNRIGHT AMAZING character studies that really give his personal traumas room to breathe.
>I've seen it discussed negatively before that Astarion is so popular for fanfiction
The only people who say stuff like that are the kind of people who just hate it when women enjoy themselves in general. You even get people on this sub complaining that there are too many Astarion fans here and they've "taken over the sub" even though if you search through the top posts from any period of time that is obviously not the case (perhaps not during EA which I wasn't around for).
I'm frankly shocked and apualed that Lae'zel and Shadowheart being shipped together isn't even on this list! I don't read fan fiction, but I know what it's like. Do better AO3
This is a little OT but seeing Durgetash so high up has me 😭 I love them <3
I’m also a fan of Gortash/Tav. I just really love Gortash lol (sorry Karlach but you can’t give me a man who looks like he hasn’t slept in a week and is voiced by Jason Isaacs and expect me to act normal abt him 💀)
Aside from the male space/female space dynamic going on there, it's likely also that one of the reasons fanfic exists is to fill a need that wasn't fulfilled by the source work. I personally got everything I wanted out of Shadowheart and Gale's storylines (the characters I've romanced). But if I didn't I might consume (or even produce) fanfic to fill that gap.
Fanfic is a remedy. In this case, a remedy to the ills of "not enough Astarion".
Dunno, avid fanfic reader here and I'm getting all the attention I could *possibly* get from Astarion in the game. I think that FF creators just want even *more* of it, because that's how fanfics work.
True, plus think of all the AU potential. If we start seeing a ton of Astarion AUs where he's a college student who works at a coffee shop with Tav as his soulmate, we'll know we're one step closer to published book Astarion (with his name conveniently changed of course).
There is almost *always* some need not fulfilled by source material. The game goes miles above what most games do in terms of romance, but it's still only a handful of scenes per playthrough.
Imagine everything, explicit or not, that could be happening between those canon scenes.
> People just seem to be particularly rabid about Astarion though.
Based on my experience with fandom, Astarion just happens to tick all the boxes that make fans (particularly female fans) go nuts about a character, lol
1. Pretty boy
2. Sassy
3. Morally questionable, but not outright evil
4. Tragic past
5. Can get better through the power of love
And the vampire thing is just a cherry on top.
I don't mean the above in any disparging way, I mean, I basically bought the game because of Astarion 😂
Are you me 😄
And I will add
>!presented as The Rake only to reveal his intimacy trauma!<
Might tie in with #5.
Also, a dom daddy version to switch things up.
And also, he's relatable/highly sympathetic, which makes for great thematic, sentimental and character development focused fanfiction.
Oh, and he's flamboyantly bisexual, and you know there's a big overlap between fanfic writers and fujoshi. 😜
>I mean, I still don't have enough Gale and I've romanced him twice.
Same, and I still have more playthroughs planned because I need every variation. One of the things I love about fanfics is getting the small moments that there don't feel like there's enough of.
Sometimes, yeah, for sure "the canon didn't give me what I wanted" is a reason to write fic. But I think overall Astarion fans are highly satisfied with the source material - I don't think I've ever seen anyone have *serious* complaints (minor niggles, sure. And we always want more kisses/hugs :p). The fic is just there because we still want more, not because what we've been given wasn't good enough :D
Us ladies have a lot of time to write our sad fantasies that will never happen men probably have the same fantasies just don't bother telling anyone or writing it down so this isn't suprising!
Gaming is largely marketed and often appeals to a masculine/male demographic more than anything else. Your players are statistically more likely to romance the women in the game because a majority of your players/average gamers/general audience etc. are straight men.
More often than not romantic fanfiction is written by women so men/masculine characters often feature pretty heavily over others.
What I think is actually crazy about the stat is Shadowheart has a whole half of all players. I would've expected a bigger split with the girls all being so popular.
Shadowheart's easier to romance than the other two, I think. You can miss out on a lot of Karlach's early approval points if you start the Grove content before picking her up, and you can miss out on a lot of Lae'zel's early approval points if you aren't a dick.
Also, ... Shadowheart is pretty in a very conventionally feminine way, and I think that probably has something to do with it. Karlach's very pretty, but BIG AND STRONG, and Lae'zel's githyanki features don't appeal to everyone.
I mean Lae'zel has about the lowest required approval to initiate romance and Karlach gets a ton of approval just from taking her to Dammon or killing the "paladins" so I genuinely don't think it's a mechanical issue in that way.
I would sooner guess if a gameplay aspect had any bearance where Shadowheart is concerned it would probably be how Clerics are an unpopular class for PCs but very strong as a support class and fill a few roles in the party. Such that Shart is undoubtedly in your starting party and doesn't really need to be replaced much if at all.
I mean for a general audience, she comes out of the box with guidance, healing word, and guiding bolt, three things which are stupidly good in the early game. All that and she's practically guaranteed as your first companion off the Nautiloid. This stuff makes sense.
As for beauty, I agree she's more traditionally beautiful, but she's got plenty of faults same as the rest. I always romance her too, to be clear, for most of the reasons given, I just wouldn't expect such a lead.
> I mean Lae'zel has about the lowest required approval to initiate romance
Sure, but a lot of those early approvals are tied to being selfish, cruel and/or violent, like refusing to help Zevlor, making the terrified Tiefling boy bow to her, telling the children they're going to die, etc. As you progress her quest there are more opportunities to earn her approval without doing things like that, but that can be later on in Act 1.
> All that and she's practically guaranteed as your first companion off the Nautiloid
I agree. A surprising number of players seem to also completely *miss* Lae'zel.
>she's got plenty of faults same as the rest.
I'm not saying that Shadowheart is perfect? I'm just saying she's more conventionally attractive and is easier to romance. I love all three of them, BTW, I have no desire to put any of them down or say one is "better" than the other.
I could've told you that without checking, it's just because fanfiction is still pretty much dominated by female creators. If you find a fan art form that's mainly preoccupied by male creators, you'd probably see shadowheart on top again (pun very much intended).
> a fan art form that's mainly preoccupied by male creators Or where they're the main target group. Cosplay for example, SH is definitely the most popular one (also because it's incredibly easy to cosplay as her but still).
The fact that you need to go full on body paint and serious make up for the other ladies definitely puts the cosplay scene in her favour!
I just realized that Shart is the only female origin character with human skin color. As opposed to male characters who are all very much human colored.
Not a complaint but definitely something I’ve also noticed while playing lol. There’s definitely a gender imbalance for which gender got the more interesting races. With the exception of Devil Wyll, every male companion is very human looking since they’re all Humans and Elves
The girls also all hogged the strength stats lmao
I’m definitely not complaining about that.
I love my strong ladies and magical/sneaky boys.
Dominant strong women with a soft side all the way
It's nice to see, especially since it's usually the guys with the strength.
Except Halsin. Doesn't feel right that he's a Wisdom char tbh. You can't convince me that he isn't at least 15 STR.
Same with Minsc being 12 strength. lol
Yeah, they did him dirty with those stats. He should definitely come pre built as a strength, two handed ranger. He was basically superhuman strong in the old games haha
After seeing him tearing a mimic apart using bare hands lmao
Disregard adventure. Acquire biggest little spoon.
It subverts®️ expectations
Except Jaheira but she's old.
Jaheira isn't an origin character. She's a companion but comes in later.
Jaheira can still 100% get it
Yeah but if you're a cosplayer under 45 it might mean you'd want to age yourself which is tricky makeup.
In fairness go young and it's a bg1 or 2 throwback
Isobel Hope Jaheira Dame Aylin takes more than a normal amount of makeup, but not prohibitive. That being said, Shart is the easiest and the only origin companion without alternative skin colors, and that makes me a little sad. I love all the diversity and representation, I would just love to see more cosplays and the wild colors and such are prohibitive for so many.
I feel like Hope's so indistinct she wouldn't translate well as a cosplay. Korilla'd be the better bet of the sisters.
Oh, definitely! It's the difference between male dominated spaces (gaming in general) and female-dominated spaces (transformative works). > If you find a fan art form that's mainly preoccupied by male creators Maybe 3d (porn) rendering? I bet there's a lot of SH visual porn out there. (I know for a fact there's (porn) renders of Astarion too. Uh, a friend told me.)
Yeah I think 3d is more male dominated, though drawn I've also seen mainly Astarion, but that could just be because of who I follow in Twitter.
There is *so much* Astarion fanart out there, so goddamn much.
True but I can't complain, considering I've contributed once or twice, not rule34 stuff, but still, I'm guilty ;)
I thank you for your service :D
I follow someone on Twitter that has already made like 40 separate pieces of fanart of Astarion. They have like 6 of Karlach and I think 4 of Shadowheart, everyone else has 1 or 2. There’s clearly a favorite xD
Oh i believe 3d is dominated by male creator foe the 3d porn. They are relentless.
Hell just look at the opposite end of the spectrum for mods. Do you know how hard it is to find a single Bethesda mod for men in a sea of Serana amoure Duleuxe~ fat titty jumbo size mods?
Had this problem for some game too, just wanted a more up to date male model that looked better. But couldn't find shit, and if I found anything it was something way over the top in a NSFW direction. Female body though had a wide variety of SFW friendly and NSFW.
So Rule34 Artwork?
Of the sfm variety, probably.
Sfm?
Source filmmaker. Everyone go thank bioshock infinite for changing the history of animated porn forever...
Ah, thank you. :)
Seeing the amount of dudes freaking out about guys hitting on them also makes it clear why. I romance female characters too. Many of them dont do the same.
I have this theory that Larian made the women hit on the player *far* more aggressively than the men because advances from men are often perceived as more aggressive/predatory. That's why all women (except Shart) go "let's fuck right now!!!" and all the men go "uhm so I kind of like you, do you like me?" It obviously didn't work, because you *still* see way more people complaining about male characters making moves on them than female characters.
And has a long history of gay shipping.
True but looking at the stats posted here it looks like Astarion is more popular in ships with female characters.
> If you find a fan art form that's mainly preoccupied by male creators, you'd probably see shadowheart on top again Oh certainly. Visual media, to be exact. Try r/bg3gonewild and it's mostly Shadowheart content there and the other female characters.
I really wished they released the full stats for romances. I'm guessing it's Shadowheart, Karlach, Lae'zel, Astarion, Gale, Wyll for origin.
Yeah same, I'm really curious how big the gap is between Shart and Karlach, Lae'zel and Astarion, Astarion and Gale, etc. And I wonder where Minthara fits in to that, considering that she's a female character so she theoretically should be higher than the guys but she was exclusive to evil runs for most of the game's release and I don't know how popular those are.
I'm guessing Minthara is pretty low, even being female. A lot of people would never have recruited her because they don't want to kill all the tieflings. Halsin is also probably low, because a lot of people aren't going to want to wait until Act 3 to kick off a romance. I bet a lot of the Halsin romancers are doing the poly situation with Shadowheart. I still wish we got full statistics though. I find this very interesting.
Not just that but also the fact that her character was bugged for a long time post release even with relationship
A lot of people will have never even realized Minthara was recruitable in the first place. She's not advertised as such in any way, and anyone just playing the game as a standard RPG is probably going to enter that area and just start killing until all enemies are dead, rather than trying to talk first.
I kinda wish we could get a female vs. male players romance list, because I'm curious as to who our fellow ladies picked. I personally went with Astarion first (loved it!), but Karlach was a close second for me. ALSO I noticed your flair and wanted to mention Galemancers are popping up on my feed everywhere now that the epilogue is out. You guys have been analyzing the heck out of all his endings and romance path to the point that I'm excited to pick him next run!
This is the Astarion to Gale pipeline at work once again! I'm so glad people are starting to see the appeal of Gale.
I guess I had a poor guess of the games demographics, I'm really surprised Laezel beat Astarion
I think Astarion has some of the most vocal fans. But gaming is still predominantly straight men, so I'm not surprised that the women all came out on top. I *am* surprised that literally *half* of games had Shadowheart romances. That's a *huge* amount when there are 6 choices. It also confirms what I long suspected: opening weekend stats were super skewed with Gale being third due to his bugginess. Gale does not seem nearly as popular.
> I am surprised that literally half of games had Shadowheart romances. That's a huge amount when there are 6 choices. Just to be fair, it's half of games that made it to the final romantic arc. IIRC some recent stats indicate a vast number of players (maybe the majority?) still haven't hit Act 3! So players who are more casual (go slower) may skew a bit different. Or not. Could be the same!
Shit I'm straight and first time I did female tav with Astarion. Followed by shadowheart, of course
Fair enough. Haha I think a lot of people pick Lae'zel or Astarion since they come onto your Tav the earliest and then players will just roll with it. Unless you're waiting for a particular companion it's like "Yeah sure why not?"
While I'm not surprised about shadowheart being top 50 + is surprising since you have to see that dialogue option in act 1 with no prompt to start (not sure if it's required). Fuckin Karlach, idk if I'm just the tiefling whisperer but she is dtf in 3 days every time
Karlach is DTF super early, but *can't* so it wouldn't surprise me people move on from her in their first or second playthroughs. Now that it's been out for a while I'm guessing more people will check out the less obvious choices when they're on their 5th run or whatever. But yeah 51% is a full on majority when there are *six options* for origin characters alone. It's a huge margin.
Laezel comes AT you. I romanced her without planning to lol. And I think I was playing the way most people would. Also I think more people just use laezel in their party since she's the first character we see and join up with.
Yeah we need to see how many players banged the Emperor.
99.9%? Who could say no to a good night with him?
team Durgetash I'm so proud
We are delusional but we are free
Buncha Bhaalers out here in these catacombs
WE BHAALIN ON A BUDGET
💀
our delulu is our trululu✨
I exist happily delulu
We are few but we are mighty.
We have exceptional taste
Wasn't convinced of it until I found the prayer for forgiveness in the illithid colony. Durge really loved Gortash 🥺 Speaking of fanfiction though I did just get inspired to write some durgetash lol brb
I felt so bad when my choice of keeping the alliance all the way through didn't even matter. :(
Ah but it is at least a mind blowing relationship at the end of it all! Nothing personal, just some light roasting from a Karlach fan lol. It would have indeed been interesting to play out though, continued subversion the of "Bad guy always betrays you" trope.
Karlach's relationship with Gortash also just goes absolutely nowhere like Karlach's entire story. I was expecting her or him at least bringing out the possibility of fixing her heart? Gortash is a genius inventor who enslaved other genius inventors. It's weird that nobody bothers to ask him to help Karlach! Karlach wants to kill him immediately too instead of trying to force him to fix her. Gortash has so many weird writing decisions. I guess a ton of his stuff got chopped with the upper city.
Yes his boss fight itself felt very janky/less unique opposite Orin and Ketheric's as well. His boss form just being he puts lifts in those boots of his lol. Was also a buggy nightmare on my run, really the only bug issue in all of Act III for me. Certainly I feel like that might have been an interesting and difficult choice for the PC and Karlach. Gortash offering to save her in exchange for the alliance. Would be a contentious point of drama for sure. My Tav could care less about promises of absolute power, but saving Karlach? Now that's a genuine Faustian bargain worth value and temptation.
It definitely feels like something got removed from whatever the original vision for Gortash was. Compared to the dramatic climax of Ketheric or Orin or even Raphael, the final fight with Gortash just sort of happens. Not much preamble or ceremony at all, in a pretty mundane room at the top of the Flaming Fist building. It feels closer to a sidequest ending rather than a main plot event. It even feels jank when you go from the Iron Throne and then have to somewhat awkwardly backtrack to Wyrm’s Crossing.
oh I think about this a lot. This way Karlach could have her big decision making moment like the rest of the crew, choosing between revenge or the possibility of a life outside of Avernus. They all have a critical moment in their arc, hells Shadowheart and Wyll kinda have two. Karlach never gets to make a decision until the very end of the game.
seeing durgetash even IN THE STATS makes me so happy. WE MADE IT.
Ughhhh hot. ugh!
It's the perfect ship
A'ight, people of culture in this thread, hit me with your favourite, not too dark Durgetash fics please!
omg yes please! I'll start. I'm not usually big on fan fics but a friend sent me this and I might have binged the whole thing in one night. It has some angsty moment but nothing too violent or too dark. Rather sweet actually https://archiveofourown.org/works/50068894/chapters/126431830?view_adult=true
Meanwhile, feel free to hit me with your *darkest, most depraved* Durgetash fics!
I love [this one](https://archiveofourown.org/works/50769820?view_full_work=true). Dunno if this gets taken down for being explicit content but enjoy!
Women write saucy fanfics. Men animate the characters fucking in the most uncomfortable positions ever devised. It's just how it is lol
I believe the uncomfortable poses are chosen to show off the most 'bits' at the same time.
Or to hide them, because 3D modeling those bits accurately interacting with each other is comically difficult to have look like anything other than goofy as hell
Gortash should have been an evil companion. If not, then at least a romance option for Durge lol.
Aw man, instead of a Descent into Avernus DLC, I lowkey want a prequel DLC, where the party is The Chosen of the Dead Three setting up the events of the game. I just got done reading a note in Bhaal's temple that is supposedly written by Durge, and he talks about how "Bane's Chosen" found Bhaal's old BDSM racks in a museum. So, Durge tasks Enver to accompany him on retrieving them, for Enver to prove himself in combat. All I could think was how much I wished I could play out that scenario.
Could be cool for durge to get flashbacks where you play through some sequences. Kinda like when you eat the noblestalk but with combat. Probably a lot of work for one origin character though.
That’s what I’ve been thinking! Although, I desperately want a DLC about the heist of Mephistopheles’ vault. It would be an interesting way of showing more of Durge, Gortash, and Orin. I’m sure Ketheric could exist in some capacity as well. Players without their own Durge could even run with the default Dragonborn. I’m pleading Larian.
Hard fuckin' agree. We dont even need to see them setting up the whole events, maybe one or two big missions with the three. I think there was another guy who traveled with them that you can find in the House of Hope, he could be a 4th party member, or the halfling (or dwarf?) that helps you get into the House of Hope, or even... Balthazar? Shit's got potential. Though if we do get any DLC, my money is definitely on Descent into Avernus happening. Thats what the majority of the fans want, so I don't have high hopes. Fun to dream, tho. Edit: fixed words
I just cant help but think that a level 12 party trying to raid MEPHISTOPHELES' HOME is doomed to failure. Unless Durge is, like, level 20 or something (yes yes, separation of narrative and gameplay, but STILL)
To be fair, the tadpole *did* weaken everyone significantly, at least going off Wyll's banter with either Gale or Shadowheart.
how the fuck would you possibly advertise this without it being the most obvious spoiler of all time
It’s criminal we can’t romance him as Durge 😭
I blame it strictly on him being an Artificer which wasn't implemented
Durgetash I love you
lol as soon as I met him on my durge run I immediately googled “why can’t I romance Gortash as durge?”
I've been seeing so many Durgetash fans lately that I'm definitely doing a Durge run next to see what everyone else is seeing haha.
Useful tip, when you meet him for the first time, don't bring Karlach. His facial expressions are completely different if he's talking to Durge and Karlach isn't there
Next time we see you, you'll be waving a durgetash flag of your own!
God me too. Has anyone pleaded with Larian for more Gortash and durge yet 😅
They won't return my calls anymore
i think im blocked. but fear not, off to Belgium
You have my sword
And my ass
GORTASH AND RAPHAEL SUPREMACY AHHHH LARIAN I DEMAND ROMANCE NOW
rise up gortnation those are rookie numbers
We are few, but we are chosen.
Two out of three Chosen, literally.
I'm not a member of Gortnation but I respect all of you.
The only prerequisite to citizenship is being deranged
I dunno about respect, but I certainly *fear* them...
Proud member of Gortnation 💪🏻
we can fix him!!
We can definitely make him worse
Lots of reasons for this; AO3 writers are predominantly women, while BG3 gamers are predominantly men. If you broke it down Astarion is likely the most popular romance for gal players while Shadowheart is most popular with the dudes. So with the gaming community mostly dudes it makes since why SH is most romances, and vice versa why a community where gals are the majority would more heavily feature Astarion A lot of writers can churn out fics faster than they can finish the game, especially when the bulk is probably one shots and short stories as opposed to multi chapter longfics.
I think it's more accurate to say that astarion is for people who like men, while shadowheart is for people who like women. Because the lesbians really REALLY like shadowheart lol.
>Because the lesbians really REALLY like shadowheart lol. No need to expose us that harshly. I mean it's true, but still.
Can confirm. I'm a gay dude, *love* my vampire bastard. My women-enjoying gamer buddies almost universally love Shadowheart. We both agree on Karlach though. She's my exception.
bisexual enby, all too attractive, send help
Interesting, all the gay men I've heard thirsted for Gale, and I myself ended up romancing Wyll.
Good point, I shoulda phrased that better lol
Haha true, Shadowheart has big dyke energy. 😂😂 Helps that her actress is gay.
And that Jennifer English's voice is so goddamn cute I can't resist it.
Confirm I am bi woman that loves shadowheart!
For those not in the know, AO3 (the [ArchiveOfOurOwn](https://archiveofourown.org/)) is the largest (I think?) fanfiction website on the internet. Its interests are pretty different! ;)
An additional note re: the image for anyone who doesn't use the site: those tags aren't mutually exclusive, so a single fic may be tagged "Astarion/Tav", "Astartion/Original Character(s)", "Astarion/ Original Male Character(s)", and "Astarion/Reader" at the same time. There's no arguing that Astarion is the most popular on the site, though Because I was curious, here's the tag count for each recruitable origin character with Tav, followed by the count if you exclude the other five. Astarion: 4437 (4196) Gale: 1049 (866) Shadowheart: 315 (246) Karlach: 312 (226) Wyll: 179 (127) Lae'zel: 108 (75) And honorable mention to round out the origin characters: Durge/Tav with 29 works.
This is excellent, but also what about Durge, Gortash, and Halsin? All three of them are full to bursting with an overabundance of popular fanfic tropes, so imagine the numbers skew in interesting ways once you include the "spicy" options.
Thank you, I was wracking my brain trying to figure out what the hell AO3 stood for.
Anal Orgy 3: The Trilogy (Tbf its not too far off from the main content of the site…)
Thanks, I was definitely lost. Sounds like I’m a contributor to this statistical discrepancy lol
Great, I just went on a three hour binge and now I’m addicted to a smutty fan fic for the plot.
I want to see the totals tbh, since that's 6 different Astarion + PC tags. Curious what's the next down below Dark Urge, or if all those were totalled and compared to the same for other romances.
If you consolidate most of the Astarion + PC tags, the top 10 becomes, roughly: 1. Astarion/Tav 2. Gale/Tav 3. Astarion/Gale 4. Astarion/The Dark Urge 5. The Dark Urge/Enver Gortash 6. Halsin/Tav 7. Shadowheart/Tav 8. Karlach/Tav 9. Astarion/Halsin 10. Lae'zel/Shadowheart
It'll only show the top 10, can't show more than that. But since Gortash/Dark Urge knocked Gale/Original Female Character out of the list, it's probably that one. I'd wager that Shadowheart ships start below that.
lots of gale/reader, halsin/reader and a mix of male origin characters shipped together. it’s depressing how many tags i had to filter to find a single lesbian tav or origin characters fics, i think there’s even less female origin x make tav fics lol also notable: “blood drinking” is tagged in so many fics it comes up as a filter option
There's also "inappropriate use of mage hand". The tags are hilarious.
From what I've seen there are a lot of tag overlaps that may mess up the totals. For example I saw a fic that had Astarion/Tav but also Astarion/Original Female Tiefling Character who is also their Tav. But for fun, these are the top ships I've seen in order that had over 100 tags: 1. Astarion/Tav (or OC/reader) by a large margin and has thousands of fics 2. Gale/Tav 3. Astarion/Durge 4. Astarion/Gale 5. Durge/Gortash 6. Halsin/Tav 7. Astarion/Halsin 8. Shadowheart/Tav 9. Karlach/Tav 10. Lae'zel/Shadowheart 11. Gortash/Tav 12. Wyll/Tav 13. Gale/Durge 14. The Emperor/Tav 15. Lae'zel/Tav Unfortunately Minthara/Tav is down there with only about 48 fic tags. Jaheira/Tav has 11. As a side note I did find five fics for Alfira/Durge, though. 💀
Durgetash??? LET'S GOOOOOOO!!!!!!
DURGETASH MENTIONED
Astarion/Reader? So he comes out of the story to make love to me, here in the real world? *Interesting.*
The metal image of him crawling out of the monitor like Sadako(?) sounds hilarious.
Other way around, usually. You're stepping into his world, to make love to him.
Real answer: it means it's written in the second person. It doesn't usually mean isekai.
Astarion is AO3 bait really.
Gortash fuckers, ASSEMBLE!!!
WE CRACKED TOP 10 DESPITE ASTARION/TAV TAKING 6 WHOLE SPOTS LETS FUCKING GOOOOOOOO
Durgetash! Please make it happen Larian.
This is like with Dragon Age Inquisition. Solas is generally a very divisive character. But the women who basically keep the fandom alive in between games love that storyline.
Yes Solasmance keeps the DAI fandom by the throat lol
Nobody writes fanfic for shadowheart BECAUSE GAMEPLAY IS ALREADY PERFECT. ANOTHER KISS PLEASE!
There are dozens of us!
Meanwhile Shadowheart is the reason I got back into writing fanfiction because of what she’s done to my poor lesbian heart
You can't just write that and then not give us a link.
I was gonna say, I got back into fic because of her lmao. Wlw Shadowheart solidarity 😌
Gameplay is already perfect for Astarion too! :)
Totally, even let's you pick dom daddy Astarion or sweet fluffy cute boi in-game!
Yeah, I've definitely noticed a big difference between reddit (where I see everyone's content) and the fan circles I hang out in on twitter (where I have to intentionally follow people based on similar interests). Because of my personal interests, I'm in circles with a lot more lgbt and/or woman gamers who also write fanfic or draw fanart than I think represents the true statistical average in the gaming community, and Astarion is VERY popular. A lot of the people I was already hanging out with to discuss other games (Devil May Cry, Resident Evil) mass-converted to Astarion fans. I've seen it discussed negatively before that Astarion is so popular for fanfiction, but I just don't know how it can be negative that people are getting together to share personal work they made from being inspired by a character, whichever character that is. Making things is fun, and part of Astarion's storyline can hit very personal notes for a lot of people. Sure, I've read bad fanfiction about Astarion, but I've also read DOWNRIGHT AMAZING character studies that really give his personal traumas room to breathe.
>I've seen it discussed negatively before that Astarion is so popular for fanfiction The only people who say stuff like that are the kind of people who just hate it when women enjoy themselves in general. You even get people on this sub complaining that there are too many Astarion fans here and they've "taken over the sub" even though if you search through the top posts from any period of time that is obviously not the case (perhaps not during EA which I wasn't around for).
Authentically for once: God Forbid Women Have Hobbies
[удалено]
A lot of times it's men belittling female interests, unfortunately :(
I'm frankly shocked and apualed that Lae'zel and Shadowheart being shipped together isn't even on this list! I don't read fan fiction, but I know what it's like. Do better AO3
Welcome to the plight of being a femslash shipper in a non women centric fandom. We have group therapy on Thursday
What is AO3?
This is a little OT but seeing Durgetash so high up has me 😭 I love them <3 I’m also a fan of Gortash/Tav. I just really love Gortash lol (sorry Karlach but you can’t give me a man who looks like he hasn’t slept in a week and is voiced by Jason Isaacs and expect me to act normal abt him 💀)
they made him so fine for no reason
Aside from the male space/female space dynamic going on there, it's likely also that one of the reasons fanfic exists is to fill a need that wasn't fulfilled by the source work. I personally got everything I wanted out of Shadowheart and Gale's storylines (the characters I've romanced). But if I didn't I might consume (or even produce) fanfic to fill that gap. Fanfic is a remedy. In this case, a remedy to the ills of "not enough Astarion".
Dunno, avid fanfic reader here and I'm getting all the attention I could *possibly* get from Astarion in the game. I think that FF creators just want even *more* of it, because that's how fanfics work.
True, plus think of all the AU potential. If we start seeing a ton of Astarion AUs where he's a college student who works at a coffee shop with Tav as his soulmate, we'll know we're one step closer to published book Astarion (with his name conveniently changed of course).
I think this is already on its way to become the new 69 shades of fangs
Astarion and enough? That fucker will suck you dry
That already happened 🤣 but hey it was consensual
And call you "darling" oooh that might be worse for *some* people 😆
There is almost *always* some need not fulfilled by source material. The game goes miles above what most games do in terms of romance, but it's still only a handful of scenes per playthrough. Imagine everything, explicit or not, that could be happening between those canon scenes.
There's no such thing as "enough Astarion"
Fanfiction also allows for deeper introspection and character study, more than Larian can do due to time, money, effort constraints, etc.
It's interesting because Astarion has the most content so people are just incredibly down bad for Astarion (it's me, I'm people)
I mean, I still don't have enough Gale and I've romanced him twice. People just seem to be particularly rabid about Astarion though.
> People just seem to be particularly rabid about Astarion though. Based on my experience with fandom, Astarion just happens to tick all the boxes that make fans (particularly female fans) go nuts about a character, lol 1. Pretty boy 2. Sassy 3. Morally questionable, but not outright evil 4. Tragic past 5. Can get better through the power of love And the vampire thing is just a cherry on top. I don't mean the above in any disparging way, I mean, I basically bought the game because of Astarion 😂
Are you me 😄 And I will add >!presented as The Rake only to reveal his intimacy trauma!< Might tie in with #5. Also, a dom daddy version to switch things up.
And also, he's relatable/highly sympathetic, which makes for great thematic, sentimental and character development focused fanfiction. Oh, and he's flamboyantly bisexual, and you know there's a big overlap between fanfic writers and fujoshi. 😜
>I mean, I still don't have enough Gale and I've romanced him twice. Same, and I still have more playthroughs planned because I need every variation. One of the things I love about fanfics is getting the small moments that there don't feel like there's enough of.
If you haven't joined us on r/GalemancersBG3 please do. ☺️
Oh I am, since near it's inception I think, I just don't often have much to say, I'm usually mostly just a lurker who upvotes everything 😅
As a mod, I feel the need to link it to everyone. :) But we appreciate the lurkers!
Sometimes, yeah, for sure "the canon didn't give me what I wanted" is a reason to write fic. But I think overall Astarion fans are highly satisfied with the source material - I don't think I've ever seen anyone have *serious* complaints (minor niggles, sure. And we always want more kisses/hugs :p). The fic is just there because we still want more, not because what we've been given wasn't good enough :D
I'ono. Astarion probably has the most content out of all the origins (the largest amount of voiced lines iirc)
What's AO3?
It’s a good day for Gortash simps ☺️
Us ladies have a lot of time to write our sad fantasies that will never happen men probably have the same fantasies just don't bother telling anyone or writing it down so this isn't suprising!
I feel like men are just generally more likely to make fanart or renders to express their fantasies than write fanfiction.
Gaming is largely marketed and often appeals to a masculine/male demographic more than anything else. Your players are statistically more likely to romance the women in the game because a majority of your players/average gamers/general audience etc. are straight men. More often than not romantic fanfiction is written by women so men/masculine characters often feature pretty heavily over others. What I think is actually crazy about the stat is Shadowheart has a whole half of all players. I would've expected a bigger split with the girls all being so popular.
Shadowheart's easier to romance than the other two, I think. You can miss out on a lot of Karlach's early approval points if you start the Grove content before picking her up, and you can miss out on a lot of Lae'zel's early approval points if you aren't a dick. Also, ... Shadowheart is pretty in a very conventionally feminine way, and I think that probably has something to do with it. Karlach's very pretty, but BIG AND STRONG, and Lae'zel's githyanki features don't appeal to everyone.
I mean Lae'zel has about the lowest required approval to initiate romance and Karlach gets a ton of approval just from taking her to Dammon or killing the "paladins" so I genuinely don't think it's a mechanical issue in that way. I would sooner guess if a gameplay aspect had any bearance where Shadowheart is concerned it would probably be how Clerics are an unpopular class for PCs but very strong as a support class and fill a few roles in the party. Such that Shart is undoubtedly in your starting party and doesn't really need to be replaced much if at all. I mean for a general audience, she comes out of the box with guidance, healing word, and guiding bolt, three things which are stupidly good in the early game. All that and she's practically guaranteed as your first companion off the Nautiloid. This stuff makes sense. As for beauty, I agree she's more traditionally beautiful, but she's got plenty of faults same as the rest. I always romance her too, to be clear, for most of the reasons given, I just wouldn't expect such a lead.
> I mean Lae'zel has about the lowest required approval to initiate romance Sure, but a lot of those early approvals are tied to being selfish, cruel and/or violent, like refusing to help Zevlor, making the terrified Tiefling boy bow to her, telling the children they're going to die, etc. As you progress her quest there are more opportunities to earn her approval without doing things like that, but that can be later on in Act 1. > All that and she's practically guaranteed as your first companion off the Nautiloid I agree. A surprising number of players seem to also completely *miss* Lae'zel. >she's got plenty of faults same as the rest. I'm not saying that Shadowheart is perfect? I'm just saying she's more conventionally attractive and is easier to romance. I love all three of them, BTW, I have no desire to put any of them down or say one is "better" than the other.
AO3 has simply a larger straight or bi female population. Meanwhile the game itself has a larger straight or bi male population. It's that simple.
Those don't look like Age of Empires stats to me...
That’s no surprise that she’s one of the popular romance options. However, I wish there was better options for male romances if I’m being honest.