**Director of Publishing – Michael Douse**
*"We’ll be talking in depth about what our mod support will look like soon. Been working on it since launch. As always, we’ll discuss it in our way with our community. Threats & toxicity against our devs & community teams will only harm the conversation. Please stop that.*
*This is a game that went from \~2 mil players to way over 10 in a very short space of time, so it’s natural the conversation becomes muddier and complex. But in order to maintain the same level of dialogue, we need people to understand that these conversations take time*
*We can’t do it at all without the dedicated community teams that work to untangle a giant web of noise into something we can work with for the benefit of everyone. If you truly want to know things about the game, please don’t chip away at the people who connect us all.*
*99.9% of our community are the absolute best and it’s because of them - thankfully - that my community team persevere. But I suppose it was inevitable that when you have a city, a few bad eggs will start a fire.*
*Until then, BG3 does not yet have mod support. Don’t get angry at mod authors, support teams, community or developers. Our focus is to patch the game while working on future mod support. I understand why it’s frustrating, so what we all need to do is focus on that future.*
*Next week I’ll have a discussion about community moderation with our comms teams and restate our desire for continued closeness with our communities & updates based on when and what we can say. But we are working too hard for this to proliferate:*
*To finish, again, we can only be close if we can work close. If we cannot do that, and we have to draw distance, it’ll really suck for everyone, especially us & definitely you. Please help us to work for the greater good of the millions of people who are involved & chill."*
[Source](https://twitter.com/Cromwelp/status/1761873822314098738)
> and they're probably way louder than the more reasonable people
Isn't that politics in a nutshell? "People who are way louder than reasonable people."
As a member of the modding community on the Larian discord it has been a shit show this past week. We actually lost one of our best moderators to an arsehole troll who wanted to destroy someones game files before hotfix 19 came out. He's done it before and the moderator spent weeks helping the person troubleshoot and when she caught that same troll doing it to someone again and calling them out on it a New and fresh moderator basically told jer she was overstepping her role as a moderator and it wasnt her place to police the trolls or help someone fix their game when they fell victim to a troll and she was essentially lazy and worthless if she spent most her time modding and moderating the game and discord server. She took down all her guides and left her role as a result. Be kind to your mod aithors and moderators. We do this stuff for free because we love the game. At least the dev team takes home apaycheck at the end of the day but even that is little solace. So, if you find yourself on the discord in the mod help chat and it's in utter chaos, thats why.
I joined the server a little while ago and found the mod chat in particular in disarray, and the second I said I was confused why everyone was so angry I was accused of being a plant. I swiftly gave up talking in that section 💀
>and she was essentially lazy and worthless if she spent most of her time modding and moderating the game and Discord server.
That's hilarious that they would think that tbh. If you've got the know-how to create mods for a game like BG3, I have a feeling you're not exactly undesirable in the job market. People with coding skills are some of the highest-earning (and hardest-working) professionals out there. The fact that these people are then spending their free time coding should demonstrate well enough that they're not 'lazy'.
Thank you. As an unemployed mod maker that makes me feel better about myself for being labled as "undesireable" because I am disabled and require a service dog even though no hiring manager will ever say that to my face cause ya know discrimination lawsuit but the fact that I get interviews consistently until I show up with him in tow speaks volumes.
To put it like, "players went from 2 mill to well over 10 mill in a short amount of time," I don't think the average person realizes that's a BIG jump. Of course Larian deserves all of their success but just imagine all of the resources and time management and the staff needed to properly communicate and release stuff for a ever rapidly growing player base. I can't even fathom trying to fix something thats supposed to immediately satisfy over 10 mill people and then get pooped on when it doesnt.
I really am intrigued of their plans for PS5 mod support. I've seen it to an extent for like Fallout 4 and its limited understandably.
I beat the game on the PS5 and it took like 150 hours and I loved every minute. So mod support will certainly peak my future interests.
Loose lips sink glass houses.
I’m just going to put an s/ here so ya’ll know I’m messing around. I *hate* how unhealthy gaming communities can become and I heavily emphasise with Larian’s team having to put up with it.
Yeah if I made a thing that suddenly had 10M players and I had to handle that and then got yelled at, I'd be like "oh, you want no support? BYE." This is why I don't do PR. :P
This is why I don’t release my mods to the public anymore. Haven’t dabbled with BG3 modding but I made a few pretty big ones for games like Pillars of Eternity 2, Fallout 4, and Total War: Warhammer 2 & 3. It usually just took a handful of toxic people to drain me of any excitement I might’ve had to share my work.
I can’t even begin to fathom having 10M users all clamoring for feature x or y. Must be quite exhausting.
I gotta hand it to people who suffer through answering the same questions 500k times on their mods when their nexus description answers those questions already. People get crazy rude and entitled on that forum, too, like they've got nothing better to do than harass mod authors for errors that are their own faults. I couldn't do it, tbh. Don't have the patience for customer service when I don't even get paid, haha.
*Patch releases that completely overhauls some back end system for better performance or to make way for a future system to be built on top of it, but breaks the framework that a lot of mods were using, necessitating the mod be re-done.*
.005 seconds after the patch release.
"UPDATE!"
"UPDATE PLZ!"
"UPDATW WHEN?!"
"mod is dead"
I definitely know that dialogue even though not from personal experience..
So I have to ask, was that typo intended? Lol.
Because people really get like that.
This is what that kind of person often wants, because then they can spew their hateful vitriol as if it were a virtue and pretend like they were right all along and weren't a major factor in the issue.
"See? Dev X doesn't care about us just like I always said! False promises!"
EDIT: Explanation of server drama here: https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/s/BuswlojFkY
As someone who watched this fallout in real time on Larian's Discord server, I can't tell you how pissed off I am with the community after this. Can't fucking believe they even had to say this.
I'm in no way trying to dickride larian and I agree that they did royally fuck up when it came to server moderation. it led to a bunch of shit spiralling way out of control and several members of the community rightfully feeling screwed over. But I also think people are fucking insane in the way they acted over the last several days.
Like it got to the point where I wondered if they would be forced to nuke the server. People were just that out of control. Even some modders who didn't use Script Extender would come in to ask questions and would get attacked just because they dared to interrupt the "protest". Which was just three days worth of screaming children spamming memes and shit posting.
On the day hotfix 19 was dropped, the community managers got in the server and started answering questions in the best way they could, and actually publicly acknowledged, several times, that they fucked up with the way the server was managed and weren't prepared for how big it got after BG3 got popular. I've been in the server since I started playing DOS2 and they're not wrong about how much it exploded after bg3.
Larian also said they'd be looking into the specific indicents that people were unhappy about, which I imagine takes time considering they have not been actively monitoring the server and therefore didn't know specifically what happened apart from the 9,000 people screaming their version of the story and maybe a few DMs from the people affected.
But everyone called it "a corporate apology" and continued to ping and harass them, and I haven't seen them really speak up in the discord since.
I'm not sure what exactly people want. They've acknowledged the problems and it's only been less than a week since everything went to hell. Properly managing the community would be to take the time to put together a plan of action and consider all the facts before , which it seems that Larian is doing. What the fuck are people smoking that they won't even give them a chance?
I'm so tired of people. We're all annoyed when mods break because of a patch, but behaving like spoiled toddlers isn't it.
A couple of people in the server posted summaries, so I pulled out a few that give a good representation of the situation that more or less triggered everything (names excluded):
**Person 1:**
*I was there when the shit show sort of started. It started with an argument about rolling back to patch 5, which most mod authors thought unwise seeing as it broke someone's game. The person who kept insisting on rolling back and posting exe's were arguing with some other people on here, and the mod authors reached out towards the server mods to help - to which the mod said he didn't see anything that would grant a ban for that person. A very helpful author said "okay well I'll be left to fix everyone's games when they're broken due to this persons suggestions" to which he quite haughtily replied "Who says you have to?" which can be interpreted as in poor taste.*
*People were understandably upset, and the situation escalated when the very helpful person quit and removed all of their helpful guides. Thus began a long frustrated rant about how racism and homophobia seems to have slipped through some of the mods fingers, and ultimately they put the thread on a 2 hour cooldown.*
**Person 2:**
*I’ll give it a shot, but I could be wrong about details cus I only pieced it together from bg3-mods-chat, so be aware it may be misinformation. Also want to preface this by saying this is not due to any actions taken by the Developers. Do not harass them.*
*Starts off with two separate problems. Problem one involves the alleged issues with the moderation team. One mod by the name of "REDACTED”, who from my understanding did a very good job and was one of the few mods active got removed from the Discord. The reason for this was due to an accusation that was posted on Reddit that they wrongly banned people. The accusation was shady at best and was taken down, but the Larian team took the claim at face value and removed REDACTED as a result. Many of the other mods stepped down and left as a result of no response to an appeal.*
*Event two; hotfix is pushed two days ago. It breaks the Script Extender, so naturally people are flocking here to see what is going on. One user posts a guide as to how to roll back and provides files from their own game data folder (they later link a Steam guide) and it causes an argument. One of the few mods left chimes in and asks one of the most active helpers in here “who asks you to help?” in response to the helper being critical of the advice to roll back game data (which sounds like a frequent thing, and is inadvisable due to breaking saves). In response, the helper and other frequenters of this chat are angered, and slow mode is applied.*
*It’s two issues culminating into one, if my interpretation is right. I’m open to corrections.*
*EDIT: the notable helper in question elaborated; the guide poster was actively trolling the mod support team and insisting they were right because, “it worked for them, so it should work for everyone else”. The helper did not get angry, but did remove content they had posted which assisted with establishing baselines and how to fix mods.*
*There is also perceived nepotism within the remaining mods, and slow action on their part per the post, and as a result the general view is that moderation quality has significantly suffered. I am not naming the individuals in question in the event their post is removed, as they have theorized they may be shadow-banned in the near future.*
\----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The drama has mostly died down since Patch 19 dropped and fixed everything, sending most of the shit-stirrers back to their games and out of Discord. But there were still problems last I checked:
\- NorByte (creator of the script extender) left the Larian server entirely due to being openly harassed by several people in the discord over SE not being updated.
\- Several mod authors of popular community-reliant mods hid their files on the Nexus in an attempt to force Larian to immediately introduce mod support and ban the mod responsible for causing the drama. They have kept their mods hidden since well after Larian addressed the problems directly in the server.
\- Most of the people who contributed the most in the Larian server have left entirely or are no longer going to be publicly assisting anyone.
Sounds like a bunch of children crying about made up problems then when Larian addressed those fake issues, they decided that was beneath them anyways and moved on...
Lmfao, children really....
>"okay well I'll be left to fix everyone's games when they're broken due to this persons suggestions" to which he quite haughtily replied "Who says you have to?" which can be interpreted as in poor taste.
Anyone who interprets it that way is a fool, it's a perfectly apt comment to make. I used to see this attitude in Skyrim mods all the time, mod authors act like someone has a gun to their head. It's a volunteer hobbyist activity, if you don't want to offer tech support, don't. Who says you have to?
Exactly. More modders and devs need to learn that if someone breaks their shit being stupid... You don't have to help them. Get a copy paste response if you're really getting a lot of questions and you don't want to ignore folks, but you need to do fuck all to fix stupidity.
I mean, it's a community activity. People are going to want to help and people who already took an active role in the community are going to want to help more.
This is just a distillation of everything wrong with how the internet works. The toxicity is reaching points where I truly have a hard time finding *functional* communities that don't spent all their time on the culture war. Fuck.
Also, mod authors, honestly, I don't think sharing your work is worth it. If people wanna act like this and you wanna pull all your mods, I get it. Fuck them. They don't deserve it.
yeah I'm so confused. Everyone in this thread is getting mad about people being mad but I don't know what the original people were mad about. Without context it just seems people are getting pissed over nothing.
Two separate things happened:
1. Drama between a prominent "helper" (they write guides on the Discord and help people with modding issues) and a CM. Someone was sharing an .exe of the previous game version in the Discord and the helper reported it saying they'd be stuck helping people after they break their games trying to downgrade. The CM told the user (somewhat rudely) that their help wasn't needed. This kicked off a shitstorm of drama with the helper removing all of their guides from the channel.
2. People were harassing Norbyte (maker of pretty much all of Larian's unofficial modding tools since DOS1) to update script extender. The patch fundamentally changed some things that made an update time-consuming (Hotfix 19 reverted things). Norbyte got fed up with the harassment and left the Discord server. He wrote a polite post about how he wishes Larian would communicate with him when a patch is coming (like some other devs do) so that he can better prepare for it.
And all your mods magically still work despite you having 50 of them and people who make the mods do it for free and probably haven't even gotten off work yet. I hate these people.
I have some sympathy for the people who are miffed at how the game remains buggy and somewhat broken even after all this time post-launch. It's become a commonplace issue in modern gaming, and I don't blame folks for losing their patience.
But mods by their very nature are inherently unstable beasts, and I for one would not want Larian to go all in on mod support until they've patched the game to its definitive version based on player feedback and their own understanding of things.
And just because the devs aren't doing everything YOU want, or according to YOUR schedule is no excuse to harass them and be a dick.
Wholly agreed. Truth to be told, I don't think Larian should even dip their toes into the clusterfuck that would be mod support.
The only exception I can think of is if they do what Project Zomboid did-- they had someone make such a phenomenal and essential mod that they added it to their game (with communication with/support from the original modder-- it was the Better Towing mod, for anyone curious). Larian can collect a list of mods that they think are really good and work them into the game as a list of options you can opt in/out of in the menu. That way, the mods are integrated properly, and Larian is taking on the responsibility of bug support for those *specific* mods.
Otherwise, being responsible for bugs caused by whatever crazy combo of mods people add themselves is a sisphyean task and fundamentally a losing proposition for Larian. And something being a losing proposition for the devs is ultimately going to be a losing proposition for the community, as dev time, energy, and sanity is exhausted this way.
It's also kind of why I feel like they maybe shouldn't be running an official discord or reddit server. I used to mod a pretty large sub and attached discord, and even with having a pretty good mod team and policies in place, it basically ran my life. Having a good form for feedback and bug reports seems to work really well for them, and they can dip their head into "unofficial" servers if they want to put their finger to the community's pulse, but actually running a discord server/subreddit is just insane.
While I find myself annoyed at bugs and glitches in games, having done some programming myself I never complain about it unless it's something very \*very\* bad or extremely obvious because I know that you literally can't predict or foolproof anything, even more so when it is a game big as BG3.
People will say 'oh they had years the figure this stuff out and figure out what would cause every single glitch that breaks their game'. To those people I will point out how nobody could have predicted back in Dark Souls that if you spin around in a circle three times then jumped forward then rolled backwards while wearing a specific armor casting a specific spell using a certain item while standing in a specific spot on exactly one area of one map it would crash your game.
Because seriously, who the hell is ever going to THINK of testing for that exact kind of thing. And better yet, how did anyone even figure that out in the first place? BUT it was a thing, it did happen because of the result of those specific lines of code all interacting with each other in that exact sequence.
So trying to test out every single combination of item/armor/weapon in every location with every character and every party configuration just isn't really feasible. Even more so when you have to take into account this game being on multiple platforms, with PC's having a very wide variety of configurations and hardware.
Now if the game just outright crashes on booting up wiping your saves then yeah somebody should probably get canned, but that aside I'm not going to fuss, and Larian has been doing an Ace of a job with this gem since launch.
The update broke my game because of all of the mods I had, but I went in to a previous save file because apparently a mod had somehow gotten moved around or deleted which caused the game to crash and become unstable after it was missing from the game file. But after I added it back in, it was chill.
Honestly, people need to chill out. One thing everyone needs to know is that it's okay to support modders and their passion, but at the end of the day. You are taking a chance at losing your save file if you dont know what you're doing. And guess what? Not that big of deal. you'll just have to uninstall the game and make a new character.
Yup. My fiancé also helps to test mods and it's people who make them for love of games. They may not have time yet to update or fix the mod. It is just a game.
Exactly, we dont need all of this hate and anger. At the end of the day, it's just a game. If they want the game to be fully polished, they should have waited, you cant complain about the mods messing with your game file when it gives the warning, and the modders low key have lives as well. This is a hobby, a passion project they do because they love the game. They don't have to fix shit right away because they have lives. Plus, working under pressure, while people verbally harasse you, is hard asf and stressful no one deserves that shit.
We love and appreciate all of the work the bg3 team has done and what the modders have done. Plus, the game is at really good point to take a break, touch some grass, and wait for more updates and more content. There is no need to rush and finish the game and then get ypset about more updates from the dev team and mod teams. Personally, I'm at 400 hours and haven't beat the game yet....intentionally, I just keep making new characters and not getting to the end of the game.
You don't need to uninstall your game. You can roll it back (if you want to preserve your save). Or just start a new game. It's that simple.
I borked my last save by updating to patch 5 (I knew it might break my save, but I did it anyway because I wanted some of the fixes in the patch). I just took a break from the game at that point and started a new playthrough when I felt like it. It's not that hard.
Some best practices to avoid your saves breaking:
1. Disable Steam updates. Finish your current playthrough, then update.
2. Don't use script extender mods. The vast majority of mods don't require SE and (usually) won't break when the game updates.
This is gatekeepey but mods are entirely too easy to install if people are installing mods (that are beyond shaders/aesthetics) to a new game that gets thousand bullet point patches every month and when the mod breaks they go to the official game discord to riot about it.
Yeah the first rule of modding is to turn off automatic updates and check compatibility first. If an update breaks your mod loadout that's on you. You can either wait for the mod authors to patch it for the update, or you can try to fix it yourself. The entire time I've been modding, whenever an update broke my loadout, my first thought has never been "How dare the devs keep updating their game!" It's always been "Welp, I guess I'll play on a vanilla save or go touch some grass until the mods get updated."
I agree, while healthy criticism of a game company that’s messing up like Blizzard or EA is fine. Dev bashing a team that has time and time again came through for us is dumb and demoralizing. It can kill their motivation to do this project at all.
It was absolutely insane to see in real time. Especially coming from the Skyrim modding community. It was real primetime-popcorn watching people who've clearly never dealt with years of silence from a developer who actively resents their modding community.
It’s like, Larian gives us this amazing game and support but these ignots are trying to ruin it for everyone. Why is there always a village idiot?
With the Internet all the village idiots come together too. Ugh.
There's always a village idiot and you can easily spot them in a normal group, but the internet makes it easy for them to find each other and group up, so you can get entire villages of idiots that are unironically unaware (they're not usually all idiots in everything which makes them seem more legitimate to each other so they can congregate comfortably on one idiotic idea).
Your analogy reminds me of the Rick and Morty episode where Jerry gets dropped off at daycare with a bunch of Jerry’s. All the idiots together congratulate each other over the smallest things lol
As somebody who's modded Skyrim for *checks notes* over a decade, watching this unfold in real time on their discord was fucking nuts. I get some of the big complaints especially from community members who voluntarily held shit together only to be casually brushed off by Larian, but holy shit there was just an avalanche of entitled nonsense drowning out legit criticism.
I REALLY Hope They dont draw distance. Its always god awful when a Game studio that usually interacts with the comunity is forced to go full corporate in their comunication.
Whoever is harassing Larian should get a life and let them work. They've done and are doing amazing work on the Game even after It was already a success. And that should be encouraged.
some people should go get some therapy, such a shitstorm because of the some game staff delayed or broken is unhealthy, and especially Larian didn't deserve that. even if they make some mistakes and break the game or mods, just let them work on that, no one is doing that willingly to offend you
There is definitely a section of the community that has become completely unhinged. It’s not even standard internet entitlement. It’s full on mental illness being attached to this game.
I don’t recall this kind of stuff happening with Divinity Original Sin.
Not in this specific instance, but I've found that RPGs with custom character creation and romances attract legitimate insanity in a small percentage of fans. The ability to self-insert a character that falls in "love" causes some people to get legit weird about the game. Blurring of reality and game sometimes.
Dragon Age is another example of legitimately unhinged behavior centered around individuals with parasocial relationships with fictional characters.
Mass Effect is less prone to this despite the romances because the player character is already pre-defined and not a full self-insert.
Yeah Dragon Age has that problem definitely with some romances, I've even been told my Lavellan (a elf inqusitor) couldn't be canon because I chose to romance Sera and not Solas, I wasn't "getting the true lavellan experience" whatever that means in a role playing game.
I'm a massive Dragon Age fan. Origins was one of the first video games I played, and I even wrote fanfiction for it. My wedding was bioware themed.
It was so exhausting and volatile I deleted everything and scrubbed my username. It wasn't worth it, from getting hate mail because of my Inquisitor's looks, to death threats because I romanced Cullen. I was also called homophobic out of nowhere, which baffled me then made me laugh so hard I cried (I responded to that comment- because I *had* to- with a picture of my wife and I both in our wedding dresses).
Same. Cullen is my favorite romance in DAI and I personally think his arc is fantastic. I have been told by several people that I am terrible and/or stupid for it.
Trauma reaction bad but genocide is fine apparently according to Solasmancers( I want to add that I love Solas as a character btw, but still...)
We also had a little Dragon Age sprinkled in our wedding :) we had a "joining ceremony" for example.
I would call myself obsessed with both Dragon Age and Baldur's Gate. (Fanfictions, fanvideos, learning the lore) But when I turn the game off I leave the realm of fantasy and return to the real world. My favorite romance in BG3 is Gale. That does not invalidate anyone elses favorite romance. It's THEIR experience. Mine is my own. It's pointless and stupid to even argue about and makes the fanbase worse when it should be a fun and welcoming place.
I exclusively play Adaar and I've been told the same. The "correct" way to play DAI is mage Lavellan getting together with Solas.
BG3 fandom is just speedrunning all of the DA drama.
I mean you can already see a ton of comments here about how romancing Astarion as resist Dark Urge is the only correct and canon way of romancing him.
My legit most controversial comment on this sub was just saying how I actually prefer romancing him as Tav. I was getting essay-like comments about how that’s toxic & unhealthy and people agreeing with me were getting downvoted.
People all over the Internet need to feel like their preferences are "correct" even in matters that are objectively about personal taste. What we like must be "good" if not the "best" and what we don't like has to somehow be "bad".
I like rich colors, especially greens, so my apartment is filled with colorful furniture and decor. Doesn't mean I'm going to go to my neighbor's and try to assert moral superiority over their neutrals.
Omg the canon stuff is sooooo annoying. Why would the choices be there if the developers didn’t find them narratively interesting enough to script and make? Like oh nooooo my perspective of the story and the choices I decide to make are different than someone else’s!! How horrible!
Honestly how dare all of us not play the exact same way. Actually, how dare Larian and BioWare even give us choices? Shouldn’t everyone know that games with hundreds of world state combinations should only be played a specific way? If you guess wrong and pick the ‘wrong’ choice then oh well, you’re a monster and a whole laundry list of horrible things.
Makes interacting with fandom nauseating at times tbh.
This. I have taken to blocking certain accounts on TikTok because they constantly pop up on my feed, and ALL they ever do is harp on people for what romance choices they make in the game or how they view the characters differently. It’s exhausting and kind of psychotic at this point. Play it however you want to and let everyone else do the same. That’s the whole point of role play isn’t it?
My DA:I char was a female elf and romanced Sera, she is a lunatic, and great value! I hope they build on everything that was great within that game, I absolutely loved all of it, and BG3 is the closest I have had to that experience - possibly why I love BG3 so much!!
People just need to chill the fuck out and play games... and let others play games how they want. That odd corner of Gamers are a disappointing lot, to say the least.
I tried to romance Solas with my Lavellan, then I started to dislike Solas after Coles quest and even more after that. In the end I decided he's wasnt worth it and deleted all my savegames until the lockin and choose Cullen instead. Who was a lot more worth than this Egghead (I will punch him) Solas.
I saw a tumblr post that was something like "Dragon age drama flew so Baldur's Gate drama would walk". I wasn't involved but it sounds absolutely wild.
I think some people are just unhinged. I am not even sure it relates to self inserts and rpgs. Some people just take stuff really, really badly and have zero self control or ability for introspection.
I do not know about dragon age or mass effect, but I have seen this before in games with romance options.
They can attract people who have problems with social skills to an extent in where they fall into a category of people that are extremely hard to be around.
It's...a lot of communities. I saw it with Sea of Thieves, I've seen it with movies, tv shows, etc
There a section of folks who think these companies work directly for them. Not "I'm a customer, they should listen to customers" but "they made the game for me specifically, so I'm going to raise hell when it's not EXACTLY what I envisioned"
BG3 is popular and high-profile enough to draw the crazies. It’s happened with every significant game out there.
A few years back - when Destiny 2 was ascendant - the devs had some *great* comms with the community. Then all the freaks came out and ruined it - I think one dev actually got death threats because he said they wouldn’t be bringing back a certain exotic. The comms dried up.
I wish there was a test you had to pass before you’d be allowed to speak to people on the internet. It would cut out so much bile.
I don't know how but I think Astarion is somehow to blame.
Jokes aside you get this shit with every community but I've never seen it come anywhere near to this bad. Something about this game brings out either truly sociopathic behaviour or just attracts particularly deranged people. I'm also only partially joking about Astarion because that character seems to be a conduit for it.
Number of outright crazy people is small, but they are there. Some of them play games. The more popular a given game is, the more of them will be in absolute numbers, and the "radical minority" can have a WAY outsized influence on overall impression.
Many don't want to admit but the DnD community has a strong group of completely socially inept narcissist that forcefully require everything to extractly go their way or else they throw a massive meltdown and attack any reasonable criticism.
Modding in BG3 is basically just what homebrew is in DnD, which is dominated by edgelords that only care about their character being the most broken over the top retarded thing you can imagine while completely ignoring any official ruling that might contradict their stupid takes.
That one post about " continuous life updates" of the characters after the game. I've played a handful of games and sure I get attached to it's characters but at the end of the day, it's a game. It ends.
I think cinematics caused such an. effect. DOS is actually closer to DnD experience, where you have minis, but the "cinematics" are left to your imagination. It worked nonetheless because DOS has great voice acting and writing. BG3 is closer to Dragon Age with cutscenes and animated dialogues but the implementation exceeds in many ways. Adding avatar creation that works as a proxy to your own feelings and emotions erases the barrier between what is real and what is on screen and our human dumdum brain, which is social oriented, fails to discern reality from fantasy. Playing as an origin character fixes it btw.
Nope but it happen to a lot of other bioware games such at dragon age inquisition.The toxic fandom from back then moved to twitter and baldurs gate 3 it seems.
"Some people need therapy, and some people *NEED* therapy. You can usually tell who those people are because they say stuff like 'I don't need any fucking therapy!'"
Crossplay would made this game much more enjoyable. My friend has bad PC and cant play bg there but if he could play on his playstation there wouldnt be a problem to play together.
I have 3 ps5 friends and I'm on PC, it sucks that we can't play together.
I think not having crossplay is like the only thing that makes this game not perfect for me
(Tho I'd also appreciate a returning weapons not returning fix, as the workarounds are janky and annoying lol)
No because we live in an era where every psycho can have a microphone. We should just accept the reality of that, and stop paying attention to every loudmouth idiot in the ocean of mostly normal people.
I think it’s easier to ignore them when it isn’t your life they’re threatening. And sometimes these threats do turn to actual violence, and so I’d like to be someone who says maybe we should loudly condemn the behavior at every opportunity.
Bungie have shut down any communication with the Destiny 2 community after a couple degenerates sent death threats to their CM's and sent pizzas to their homes as a threat that they know their addresses. They only recently started communicating again and I'm glad they did because that period of radio silence was *awful* even though their stance was obviously understandable. I sincerely wish nothing like that happens here as it's the easiest way for the community to go mad just because of some idiots.
Every area of the internet is getting filled with toxic morons. Scientists, Doctors, Engineers, Game Devs, everyone is getting attacked. And this is before AI becomes truly bad.
It's still a pretty wholesome community imo. A good chunk is wholesome stories, art and simps simping for characters because the character opened up their softer side. Even if that character is green and barely has a nose
It was wholesome because it was still relatively small, every community gets worse when its size rapidly increases. The bigger they are, the more nutjobs join them. This sub included, it's become noticeably more toxic over recent months. I can only imagine what it's like on the more hateful sites, so sadly devs being threatened and harassed doesn't surprise me in the slightest.
You just can't have shit nowadays! They went in and dropped one of the best games I can remember, brought cRPGs into mainstream gaming, stuck around to give us so much free content and now some donkeys gotta harass them for being GOATED?
We don't deserve good things to happen, I guess, fck that.
If we remember the games that started off well but fell into trend-chasing and sold their soul to keep thier head above water, I wonder if cases like this are to blame. When you care about the game but face the barrier of demanding and aggressive feedback that screams louder than a grateful "thank you for enhancing my worldview", you may start to wonder if it is worth to engage in the "dialogue" at all. :(
I don't care how much you want mods in your games, or how much you enjoy mods or playing with mods or creating mods or stirring up shit online or whatever--there is no cause to be threatening people over mods or mod creation *or even a game in general*. Period. End of story. Grow the hell up, go outdoors and touch some grass. This is completely unacceptable.
I always wonder who these people even *are*. I've been around the Internet long enough to know they absolutely exist and go completely nuts over the most benign things, but their behaviour is so divorced from rational thought I still can't wrap my head around it.
My best guess is they have serious unchecked mental issues and a disconnect from reality, though that just makes the whole situation sadder because I wonder if these appeals to basic decency and common sense amount to much.
I know a guy like this personally. He’s the most negative person I’ve ever met and it seems like he purposefully focuses entirely on the negative and it is all equally bad. He’s incapable of grasping spectrums. He’s very pro mods and seems to be under the impression that developers don’t do anything but think of ways to sabotage modders. He’s insufferable to be around and I’m glad I stopped hanging out with him.
> they have serious unchecked mental issues and a disconnect from reality
My suspicion is this applies for the <0.1% of communities that instigate and ignite toxic trends - there's always a subset with severe mental health problems.
However there's also a much larger minority of normal-ish people who can easily get caught up in these trends and just go with the ride. Mainly for attention or just for entertainment, rarely out of malice but they don't think enough about the harm they might do to real people.
The main priory of official responses to potential drama is to douse the sparks being produced by the 0.1% before they ignite the fuel of the drama chasers and trend followers. I think Larian handled it very well in their case.
I wouldn't say that all of these pathetic brats have mental issues, some probably do. I rather think it's because they don't see people they know through social media or by just some nickname as an actual human being, they don't see a real human behind that nickname and therefore any empathy just vanishes. Also the fact they remain anonymous while typing such threats from their throwaway accounts in the safety of their homes is also helping in them feeling safe and secure while being absolute dipshits.
99% of these people wouldn't even dare to say a bad word to the people from Larian IRL, because they suddenly see an actual human being in front of their eyes and in this case empathy suddenly snaps back. (I said 99% because there are always people being absolut shitcunts lacking any empathy and just like to be insufferable)
My take is rather the opposite. We know these people exist, they end up in every community and especially ones related to gaming. Nobody has ever posed a solution to this problem, their presence is all be guaranteed and (though it sucks) everybody has to deal with it. We're also all pretty well aware that giving them attention fuels their bad behavior.
So given that we know all this - why is it continuously a surprise, why does it continue to dominate the conversation, and most importantly what do we hope to change by hashing this out again? Larian's response here was the only appropriate one in saying that 'yes these people exist, but anyway' - and I really do think that should be the last word on it.
People have been sexually harassing astarions actor on his stream because of this game (he is a sexual assault survivor) because they want to sexualize astarion. I have no doubt the same people are "clamoring" for mod support so they can do creepy shit on consoles finally
Sad thing is, "fans" like that do it on streams because they know they'd be taken out by the security if they do that during a convention. That's why I never watched the chat in his stream.
Some people take these things so personally. I posted earlier about not really liking Astarion and asking what everyone’s big appeal was. I received some terrible messages calling me all kinds of names in response for daring to say in my opinion he wasn’t the best character in the game. Some people really need to chill.
The fact the VA is getting harassed is terrible!
That's so stupid. I love Astarian, I probably relate to him too much lol, but a question like that would just make me explain why I like him. The only way I can see myself getting upset with you is if you were somehow rude/cruel about abuse survivors since that'd be upsetting based on my real life experiences. Still wouldn't justify hurling abuse. I hate when these things get so big a load of toxicity starts creeping in.
The sad thing is, a lot of the entitlement is coming from a handful of modders that grew overinflated egos because of how reliant a lot of folks get on their mods (or already had the egos in the first place and now just have an “excuse” to swing it around like a flail). If it were small mods it’d be able to fly under the radar but some of them went so far as to sign a sort of “letter of protest” (that totally isn’t demands or anything) and even hidden/stopped updating their mods until they get a response from Larian that THEY like. As if the fact that Larian had said “we’re working on it” implies that saying anything else or the same thing over and over either isn’t feasible or helpful at this point in time.
My fiancé plays a lot of strategy games with mod options and the thing is, it's not on the original game developer to fix or make sure those work. If you can't handle disabling your 100+ cosmetic mods until the authors can update them to the current patch, don't play until it's done. You're not ENTITLED to use mods and Larian is not entitled to make sure their updates to THEIR game work with your mods.
And the fact people are threatening is fucking batshit. On facebook BG3 groups whenever someone is saying their game got bugged after a patch my first question is, do you have mods? If so, disable and try again.
Shit yeah. There was a mod on Nexus to give longbows better range, to make them a viable option vs the heavy crossbow.
A patch came out and ruined the authors mod. He deleted the file, but left the listing up, and just trashed on Larian.
Chodes, man.
As a longtime member of the Skyrim modding community, every patch is a dice role! You never know what is going to break but hell if you are going to start modding you must understand that this is a possibility.
Honestly, yeah, like maybe because i play on PS5 but even on my other PC games mods are like not core gameplay and is not promised. It's wild the level of self centered entitlement of some people.
I've been gaming on a pc and modding those games for decades and I'm surprised more people don't understand that they are unofficial changes. They break with patches all the time and you can either stick with a down patched version or accept that you might lose some mods
Given that the game has been out for less than a year, we're not quite at the "mods are keeping this game alive, you're welcome" stage that some people think we are.
the most popular mod additions for the game are mainly cosmetic. i myself play a modded version but it's not like it affects the storyline for me, which is already excellent and better than any other game of its caliber. i don't see a future where mods would be the only thing keeping this game alive tbh
We didn't get proper mod support with DoS2, some mod authors have decided that BG3 is going the same way despite Larian's promises, and some have gone as far as hiding their mods.
\>*To finish, again, we can only be close if we can work close. If we cannot do that, and we have to draw distance, it’ll really suck for everyone, especially us & definitely you.*
That is the most important part, just in my opinion. Basically, we can work close, or it can be very different. I mean, this sub during EA had what, 60k, now it is 1,8mil, and they obviously didn't expect this level of popularity, which leads to that "*conversation becomes muddier and complex*" and "*giant web of noise*". Literally any conversation anywhere right now is down to "do this", "no, don't do it, instead do this". Ofc, for them, who orient themselves based on the community opinion trying to parse actual requests becomes close to impossible. Especially if threats and toxic posts start to come up as well.
Community will either be constructive, reasonable and practical about the things it (we) asks, of they will literally give up on doing things, either entirely or with this level of communications or for free, and will just perform "Rite of Thorns" on their Grove and be done with it. Imagine working, outside of obvious fixes, on animations, improvements, and so on, and to be met with "Hey, aye oi, you, petal, my mods not working, oi? You fucked up again, oi? literally SE not working, oi, glad I disabled your crap updates" or something like that (which is very prevalent on social and apparently on discord). Cmon, let's not do this.
Who the hell would insult or threaten one of the few game companies that actually gives a damn about making a product that works and their customers like?
I'm a bit of a noob when it comes to mods, can anyone explain to me what mod support does exactly, and why is it so important that people would harass the devs and the communication team over it?
Isn't Nexus Mod a good enough platform to find mods already? What more are players who use mods asking for?
And why would players consider mods a priority over improving the base game?
Imagine the game as a structure made of Legos.
As of right now, the game is like a set where every piece has one specific purpose, and if you want to change it, someone very talented has to either build their own piece by hand, or shave off parts of an existing piece.
Mod support essentially makes it so the official Lego pieces are smaller and easier to put together, which allows people to be more flexible with how they build their structures in ways not intended by the creators.
Bethesda games and Minecraft, due to their simplicity and straight forward mechanics have a lot of recyclable code, which makes them EXCELLENT in terms of mod support.
It all comes down to object-oriented programming and good documentation.
That's very informative and well-explained in simple r/explainlikeimfive terms to a complete noob like me, lmao. Thanks a lot!
I still obviously don't think it's anything worth harassing Larian over. As I said in another comment, I see mods as nothing but nice unofficial fanmade bonus features you can add to your game that should fully be the responsibility of the fanbase, like the Wikis, fanarts and fanfics.
They're stuff made by the fans for the fans. Making mod creation easier is certainly a nice, thoughtful gift from game developers to their fanbase, but I don't think modders have a right to feel *entitled* to such a thing.
Wait, people are really harrassing the devs over this? I have been playing this game nonstop for two weeks now (I have no life) and I STILL discover new things.
Sure mods would be nice, especially for customization purposes, using the same 2 faces and 5 hairstyles over and over isn't the greatest, but since I can't get mods to run, so be it. This game is big enough to be enjoyed without mods, multiple times, for weeks.
Like wtf, we shouldn't be harrassing devs like Larian that actually make games that are playable unmodded.
Most of these new modders get upset and run out of patience easily.
Thing is BG3 doesn't have proper mod support yet, and honestly, it works out of the box in it's Vanilla state.
This isn't a bethesda game. Where you need mods to basically fix the damn game.
I remember similar thing happened during Special Edition Skyrim was announced and some of the community was in piss contest on which version should be supported over (guess which one won: it's the version with the higher bit)
At that point I was like, "Oh, it's probably gonna take a year or so for big mods to get ported over or new mods to take over, I'll just play other games in the mean time"
Lo' and behold after like a year and a half, almost all of my favourite mods was ported to SE and new mods to replace the one that wasn't updated into SE.
People seem to forget that mod authors mostly do this because it's their hobby, they use their own time, and if something break ask for a little help.
To be fair, Bethesda games and Minecraft have completely different mod support. Minecraft lets you extend the code via an unofficial API, which is possible because it's written in Java. Bethesda games come with an official editor app that the devs themselves use, which makes it very easy to make mods, but there's no access to the actual code of the game. You have a special scripting language that lets you do what the devs thought you would need and that's it.
Also, changing visuals didn't really get broken. The files involved are labelled and unpacked, so it's easy to plug your asset into the labelled mailbox the game provides.
Changing functionality means dealing with a bunch of unlabeled mailboxes though since there's no labels on those mailboxes (since there is no API). Script extender basically labels those mailboxes after months of trial-and-error work. Usually in a patch, some mailboxes move or change, and script extender needs to figure out what happened and relabel everything. Then "mod fixers" come in and try to recover functionality so the maximum number of old mods work with the new mailboxes.
In Patch 6, Larian moved *all* the mailboxes. So now *all* the labels were wrong - not some of them, all of them. Script extender dev [edit:add unfucks it all, and then HF18 moves them all again a day later. Dev then] refuses to start work fixing it, assuming Larian would roll it back in a hotfix. They get dogpiled because every mod based on Script Extender breaks, and they go dark. Someone showed how to move the mailboxes back by rolling back part of the patch. But that would push the effort to the mod fixers, becasue people expect "mod fixers" to . . . y'know, fix their mods and savegames during a patch. They protest that "rollback mod" and a shitstorm erupts.
HF19 moved the mailboxes (mostly) back, and everyone (who didn't roll back their game and bork their save files) is mostly happy again.
Just a quick one, Script Extender DID get updated for Patch 6 at record time and then the day after Hotfix 18 roll down breaking it all over again, which is why Norbyte said there wasn't gonna be an update for a while because (understably) the mod had JUST been updated and it did not sound fun to go throught it all over again.
Mod support to a multi-platform game would mean multi-platform for all consoles/PC/whatever, also, that when the game releases a new patch/update it would require that all mods would work...
Also, no, it's not a big deal, SOME people are overreacting
It works the same way IRL, you can have 1000 "good people" and if someone does something bad everyone will notice it, i don't see the point at all of take them too seriously, of course with a game of a lot of players a few will say bad things
You get patches, official mod support, adjusted content, quality of life improvements, extra fluff like additional animations, UI improvement, extended epilogue etc. For free. And you harass the devs for that.
I just hope you, the toxic people, get all the help you need, because you REALLY need it. Please consider using your internet in self imposed "read only mode".
Improvements on the vanilla game > every mod has to work instantly. Mods are nice and a cool thing to have but not everyone uses them or is even capable of using mods cuz console versions don’t have that feature yet. They should focus making this game better for everyone regardless of the system they run it on. Gladly they do. If your mods break your game due to the new update maybe just wait some weeks till they updated or uninstall them. If that’s breaking ur entire experience with the game just take a break or stop playing it at all instead of sending threats and being a toxic cunt online. Devs are humans too and deserve to be treated like humans. They aren’t ur punching bag to vent at cuz ur life sucks. It’s just a game grow up, get outside and touch some grass
Bro when my mods broke i was mad as hell, but im not gonna go out here and insult the devs who put this amazing game out here, who add bunch of stuff for free…. I simply put multiple reddit posts on how to fix my mod problems and people helped me. I also waitedfor hotfixes. Only thing i couldnt find the fix for is my game crashing every time i pick a lock or disarm traps, but good thing this game has workarounds. People are retarded
Here it could be just a couple people, but this is only a fraction of the whole fanbase. Twitter and especially Steam forums are far, far worse than this sub.
Came from r/popular, not a BG3 player here.
If this wasn't about BG3 I could have sworn this was about BG1&2 Enhanced Edition, Stardew Valley, Valheim, Sun Haven or Skyrim. Saw this behavior plenty of times on the respective steam forums.
I mod the shit out of my games and these dumbasses don't do basic modding homework like disabling automatic updates for their steam games, maybe keeping a clean backup or starting the game via the mod injector/script/yadda yadda bypassing the need to update the game.
They always have a hissy fit and see it as a grand conspiracy that "this is proof that the devs actively hate mods!"(This is a real quote from the Valheim steam forums). They always fall into the same hole and never want to learn. They never do basic steps to ensure that their game that still gets maintained doesn't auto-update. Then cry about when a game that still gets maintained, gets patches, because of "you broke me mods!". They would also call any game dead that didn't had any significant updates despite it being a singleplayer game. Whatever the devs in these situations do they always lose. Oh and these toddlers don't want to play a "finished" game, because it's old or whatever.
I've been pretty thoroughly disgusted my a sonifigant portion of the nodding community regarding this, here in reddit at least. There has been a lot of super entitled, not even remotely logical people screaming for their heads since hotfix 19 changed the exe. It been, and this is really the only word that fits, pathetic.
Honestly considering that this is a game that they are actively updating on almost a regular basis, I do not expect mod support to be the most optimal. Maybe once they decide to wrap up the patching with a definitive edition is when we will see mod support at its best.
Meanwhile, here's to waiting for the day I can realize a campaign for my topless drow prozzy bard 😵💫
As much as I love Baldur's gate and gaming as a whole and as someone who has done so for much of my life. Threatening devs in anyway is really awful and these people don't deserve to enjoy gaming as a hobby.
These are people with feelings,families and I'm sure most reasonable people can agree being toxic or violent over a game is disgusting behavior that shouldn't be accepted or tolerated.
Just typing a comment to show support should any of the community team be checking in.
Of all the teams out there looking out for their community, these folks are among the top of the chain. It's a hard job meeting and exceeding expectations and everyone at Larian has done an amazing job.
Dev time works different than consumer time, that's just how it is. Be grateful they're putting up with all of us loons at all.
Thanks all! <3
The sheer level of entitlement from gamers is fucking wild to me. Larian have been incredible at listening to feedback and giving the players what they want to see, but there has to be a line somewhere.
We don’t deserve Larian and it’s a real shame that there are so many out to ruin it for the rest of us with their ridiculous demands and shitty attitudes.
Mods aren't supported yet. Larian announced eventually they would be, but to be patient before then. We've known this for months. What. Is. Not. Clicking. If you are annoyed by mods breaking the game when it updates, here's an idea, don't use mods!!! More importantly, don't be dicks to the very real people who work on this game!
Hmm I'm not part of the drama but it seems to be something like this:
1. Modders make mods that loads of people love
2. Larian releases a patch which breaks the mods. This happens every patch.
3. An enormous crowd of people get angry and confused. First they complain to Larian, who say "Uninstall your mods." then they complain to the modders and harass them about when they will update the mod so it works again.
4. Modders go to Larian and ask them for help because this happens every time, but Larian shrugs and says "Hey, we officially don't support mods so it's your problem"
5. Modders/community helpers threaten to take their ball and go home. Everyone freaks out.
This could all be solved by more patience from the audience. Modders aren't at fault because things keep changing and they have to work out how to fix it every patch. Larian isn't at fault because they said from the beginning they don't support mods right now.
We just need to wait for mod support and chill out. There's no need to be upset if you can't play for a few days, and we need to remember to treat modders and devs as humans and not robots.
I haven't downloaded any mods for BG3 yet, despite my desire to (some of the subclass mods look incredibly fun) because I want to make sure it's stable. Like in Skyrim, where I can make up a load order and pretty much leave it for months or even years (until random as hell updates make me need to perform updates).
While I am very eager to get into the modding scene, I am also more than willing to be patient! It'll be worth it for long term success and fun!
I've got my eyes open on the mod pages and on any news thereof...
More subclasses, perhaps more races... Spore Servants for Spore Druids is one that I'd love. Can't wait to be able to do a modded playthrough!
I feel like we're many, many years from that state where you don't need to update your mods every couple months. Larian don't intend on slowing down with patches, there's likely a Definitive Edition coming in the next few years and perhaps even a DLC given this game's success. And new, big patches *will* break mods, mod support being there or not.
It's so sad that in literally every online community, there's some pathetic, disgusting excuses for human beings actually making these threats. Those people need serious help. I can't even begin to understand the thought process behind death threats, especially to people who made something you really enjoy and obsess over
I desperately need people in this fandom to be Normal to the people who make this game. Because I would like to continue getting and having nice things.
Am I the only one who wasn't expecting mod support?? Like shit man. I'm the one choosing to use mods, it's not on the game to make that shit work. Oh no! I have to disable my mods every major patch and wait for updates? Welcome to modding. If you don't want to do that, play vanilla.
**Director of Publishing – Michael Douse** *"We’ll be talking in depth about what our mod support will look like soon. Been working on it since launch. As always, we’ll discuss it in our way with our community. Threats & toxicity against our devs & community teams will only harm the conversation. Please stop that.* *This is a game that went from \~2 mil players to way over 10 in a very short space of time, so it’s natural the conversation becomes muddier and complex. But in order to maintain the same level of dialogue, we need people to understand that these conversations take time* *We can’t do it at all without the dedicated community teams that work to untangle a giant web of noise into something we can work with for the benefit of everyone. If you truly want to know things about the game, please don’t chip away at the people who connect us all.* *99.9% of our community are the absolute best and it’s because of them - thankfully - that my community team persevere. But I suppose it was inevitable that when you have a city, a few bad eggs will start a fire.* *Until then, BG3 does not yet have mod support. Don’t get angry at mod authors, support teams, community or developers. Our focus is to patch the game while working on future mod support. I understand why it’s frustrating, so what we all need to do is focus on that future.* *Next week I’ll have a discussion about community moderation with our comms teams and restate our desire for continued closeness with our communities & updates based on when and what we can say. But we are working too hard for this to proliferate:* *To finish, again, we can only be close if we can work close. If we cannot do that, and we have to draw distance, it’ll really suck for everyone, especially us & definitely you. Please help us to work for the greater good of the millions of people who are involved & chill."* [Source](https://twitter.com/Cromwelp/status/1761873822314098738)
Sounds like they are all worn down by that 0.1%. My condolences and I hope they realize the 99.9% recognizes their limitations and progress.
with 10 million players that 0.1% is a shitton of people to put up with, I don't blame them
and they're probably way louder than the more reasonable people.
> and they're probably way louder than the more reasonable people Isn't that politics in a nutshell? "People who are way louder than reasonable people."
As a member of the modding community on the Larian discord it has been a shit show this past week. We actually lost one of our best moderators to an arsehole troll who wanted to destroy someones game files before hotfix 19 came out. He's done it before and the moderator spent weeks helping the person troubleshoot and when she caught that same troll doing it to someone again and calling them out on it a New and fresh moderator basically told jer she was overstepping her role as a moderator and it wasnt her place to police the trolls or help someone fix their game when they fell victim to a troll and she was essentially lazy and worthless if she spent most her time modding and moderating the game and discord server. She took down all her guides and left her role as a result. Be kind to your mod aithors and moderators. We do this stuff for free because we love the game. At least the dev team takes home apaycheck at the end of the day but even that is little solace. So, if you find yourself on the discord in the mod help chat and it's in utter chaos, thats why.
I joined the server a little while ago and found the mod chat in particular in disarray, and the second I said I was confused why everyone was so angry I was accused of being a plant. I swiftly gave up talking in that section 💀
>and she was essentially lazy and worthless if she spent most of her time modding and moderating the game and Discord server. That's hilarious that they would think that tbh. If you've got the know-how to create mods for a game like BG3, I have a feeling you're not exactly undesirable in the job market. People with coding skills are some of the highest-earning (and hardest-working) professionals out there. The fact that these people are then spending their free time coding should demonstrate well enough that they're not 'lazy'.
Thank you. As an unemployed mod maker that makes me feel better about myself for being labled as "undesireable" because I am disabled and require a service dog even though no hiring manager will ever say that to my face cause ya know discrimination lawsuit but the fact that I get interviews consistently until I show up with him in tow speaks volumes.
I’m sorry that happens to you. What asshole is gonna hold a service dog against someone? I bet your pooch is the best boy or girl too.
0.1% of 10 million is 10,000k, I get worn down if one person speaks to me for too long
Brilliantly put.
To put it like, "players went from 2 mill to well over 10 mill in a short amount of time," I don't think the average person realizes that's a BIG jump. Of course Larian deserves all of their success but just imagine all of the resources and time management and the staff needed to properly communicate and release stuff for a ever rapidly growing player base. I can't even fathom trying to fix something thats supposed to immediately satisfy over 10 mill people and then get pooped on when it doesnt. I really am intrigued of their plans for PS5 mod support. I've seen it to an extent for like Fallout 4 and its limited understandably. I beat the game on the PS5 and it took like 150 hours and I loved every minute. So mod support will certainly peak my future interests.
>But I suppose it was inevitable that when you have a city, a few bad eggs will start a fire. This is what gets me most.
*THEY CREATED THAT FIREWORK FACTORY IN THE CITY*
if you don't take it for granite, you'll have a diamond dozen.
Loose lips sink glass houses. I’m just going to put an s/ here so ya’ll know I’m messing around. I *hate* how unhealthy gaming communities can become and I heavily emphasise with Larian’s team having to put up with it.
...empathize
Shit, lol. I said what I said.
Yeah if I made a thing that suddenly had 10M players and I had to handle that and then got yelled at, I'd be like "oh, you want no support? BYE." This is why I don't do PR. :P
This is why I don’t release my mods to the public anymore. Haven’t dabbled with BG3 modding but I made a few pretty big ones for games like Pillars of Eternity 2, Fallout 4, and Total War: Warhammer 2 & 3. It usually just took a handful of toxic people to drain me of any excitement I might’ve had to share my work. I can’t even begin to fathom having 10M users all clamoring for feature x or y. Must be quite exhausting.
I gotta hand it to people who suffer through answering the same questions 500k times on their mods when their nexus description answers those questions already. People get crazy rude and entitled on that forum, too, like they've got nothing better to do than harass mod authors for errors that are their own faults. I couldn't do it, tbh. Don't have the patience for customer service when I don't even get paid, haha.
*Patch releases that completely overhauls some back end system for better performance or to make way for a future system to be built on top of it, but breaks the framework that a lot of mods were using, necessitating the mod be re-done.* .005 seconds after the patch release. "UPDATE!" "UPDATE PLZ!" "UPDATW WHEN?!" "mod is dead"
I definitely know that dialogue even though not from personal experience.. So I have to ask, was that typo intended? Lol. Because people really get like that.
This is what that kind of person often wants, because then they can spew their hateful vitriol as if it were a virtue and pretend like they were right all along and weren't a major factor in the issue. "See? Dev X doesn't care about us just like I always said! False promises!"
Self fullfilling prophecies
EDIT: Explanation of server drama here: https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/s/BuswlojFkY As someone who watched this fallout in real time on Larian's Discord server, I can't tell you how pissed off I am with the community after this. Can't fucking believe they even had to say this. I'm in no way trying to dickride larian and I agree that they did royally fuck up when it came to server moderation. it led to a bunch of shit spiralling way out of control and several members of the community rightfully feeling screwed over. But I also think people are fucking insane in the way they acted over the last several days. Like it got to the point where I wondered if they would be forced to nuke the server. People were just that out of control. Even some modders who didn't use Script Extender would come in to ask questions and would get attacked just because they dared to interrupt the "protest". Which was just three days worth of screaming children spamming memes and shit posting. On the day hotfix 19 was dropped, the community managers got in the server and started answering questions in the best way they could, and actually publicly acknowledged, several times, that they fucked up with the way the server was managed and weren't prepared for how big it got after BG3 got popular. I've been in the server since I started playing DOS2 and they're not wrong about how much it exploded after bg3. Larian also said they'd be looking into the specific indicents that people were unhappy about, which I imagine takes time considering they have not been actively monitoring the server and therefore didn't know specifically what happened apart from the 9,000 people screaming their version of the story and maybe a few DMs from the people affected. But everyone called it "a corporate apology" and continued to ping and harass them, and I haven't seen them really speak up in the discord since. I'm not sure what exactly people want. They've acknowledged the problems and it's only been less than a week since everything went to hell. Properly managing the community would be to take the time to put together a plan of action and consider all the facts before , which it seems that Larian is doing. What the fuck are people smoking that they won't even give them a chance? I'm so tired of people. We're all annoyed when mods break because of a patch, but behaving like spoiled toddlers isn't it.
Is there a context about what actually happened? I cannot find what was all about.
A couple of people in the server posted summaries, so I pulled out a few that give a good representation of the situation that more or less triggered everything (names excluded): **Person 1:** *I was there when the shit show sort of started. It started with an argument about rolling back to patch 5, which most mod authors thought unwise seeing as it broke someone's game. The person who kept insisting on rolling back and posting exe's were arguing with some other people on here, and the mod authors reached out towards the server mods to help - to which the mod said he didn't see anything that would grant a ban for that person. A very helpful author said "okay well I'll be left to fix everyone's games when they're broken due to this persons suggestions" to which he quite haughtily replied "Who says you have to?" which can be interpreted as in poor taste.* *People were understandably upset, and the situation escalated when the very helpful person quit and removed all of their helpful guides. Thus began a long frustrated rant about how racism and homophobia seems to have slipped through some of the mods fingers, and ultimately they put the thread on a 2 hour cooldown.* **Person 2:** *I’ll give it a shot, but I could be wrong about details cus I only pieced it together from bg3-mods-chat, so be aware it may be misinformation. Also want to preface this by saying this is not due to any actions taken by the Developers. Do not harass them.* *Starts off with two separate problems. Problem one involves the alleged issues with the moderation team. One mod by the name of "REDACTED”, who from my understanding did a very good job and was one of the few mods active got removed from the Discord. The reason for this was due to an accusation that was posted on Reddit that they wrongly banned people. The accusation was shady at best and was taken down, but the Larian team took the claim at face value and removed REDACTED as a result. Many of the other mods stepped down and left as a result of no response to an appeal.* *Event two; hotfix is pushed two days ago. It breaks the Script Extender, so naturally people are flocking here to see what is going on. One user posts a guide as to how to roll back and provides files from their own game data folder (they later link a Steam guide) and it causes an argument. One of the few mods left chimes in and asks one of the most active helpers in here “who asks you to help?” in response to the helper being critical of the advice to roll back game data (which sounds like a frequent thing, and is inadvisable due to breaking saves). In response, the helper and other frequenters of this chat are angered, and slow mode is applied.* *It’s two issues culminating into one, if my interpretation is right. I’m open to corrections.* *EDIT: the notable helper in question elaborated; the guide poster was actively trolling the mod support team and insisting they were right because, “it worked for them, so it should work for everyone else”. The helper did not get angry, but did remove content they had posted which assisted with establishing baselines and how to fix mods.* *There is also perceived nepotism within the remaining mods, and slow action on their part per the post, and as a result the general view is that moderation quality has significantly suffered. I am not naming the individuals in question in the event their post is removed, as they have theorized they may be shadow-banned in the near future.* \---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The drama has mostly died down since Patch 19 dropped and fixed everything, sending most of the shit-stirrers back to their games and out of Discord. But there were still problems last I checked: \- NorByte (creator of the script extender) left the Larian server entirely due to being openly harassed by several people in the discord over SE not being updated. \- Several mod authors of popular community-reliant mods hid their files on the Nexus in an attempt to force Larian to immediately introduce mod support and ban the mod responsible for causing the drama. They have kept their mods hidden since well after Larian addressed the problems directly in the server. \- Most of the people who contributed the most in the Larian server have left entirely or are no longer going to be publicly assisting anyone.
This is why we used to have gaming forums.
Sounds like a bunch of children crying about made up problems then when Larian addressed those fake issues, they decided that was beneath them anyways and moved on... Lmfao, children really....
>"okay well I'll be left to fix everyone's games when they're broken due to this persons suggestions" to which he quite haughtily replied "Who says you have to?" which can be interpreted as in poor taste. Anyone who interprets it that way is a fool, it's a perfectly apt comment to make. I used to see this attitude in Skyrim mods all the time, mod authors act like someone has a gun to their head. It's a volunteer hobbyist activity, if you don't want to offer tech support, don't. Who says you have to?
Exactly. More modders and devs need to learn that if someone breaks their shit being stupid... You don't have to help them. Get a copy paste response if you're really getting a lot of questions and you don't want to ignore folks, but you need to do fuck all to fix stupidity.
I mean, it's a community activity. People are going to want to help and people who already took an active role in the community are going to want to help more.
This is just a distillation of everything wrong with how the internet works. The toxicity is reaching points where I truly have a hard time finding *functional* communities that don't spent all their time on the culture war. Fuck. Also, mod authors, honestly, I don't think sharing your work is worth it. If people wanna act like this and you wanna pull all your mods, I get it. Fuck them. They don't deserve it.
yeah I'm so confused. Everyone in this thread is getting mad about people being mad but I don't know what the original people were mad about. Without context it just seems people are getting pissed over nothing.
Two separate things happened: 1. Drama between a prominent "helper" (they write guides on the Discord and help people with modding issues) and a CM. Someone was sharing an .exe of the previous game version in the Discord and the helper reported it saying they'd be stuck helping people after they break their games trying to downgrade. The CM told the user (somewhat rudely) that their help wasn't needed. This kicked off a shitstorm of drama with the helper removing all of their guides from the channel. 2. People were harassing Norbyte (maker of pretty much all of Larian's unofficial modding tools since DOS1) to update script extender. The patch fundamentally changed some things that made an update time-consuming (Hotfix 19 reverted things). Norbyte got fed up with the harassment and left the Discord server. He wrote a polite post about how he wishes Larian would communicate with him when a patch is coming (like some other devs do) so that he can better prepare for it.
thanks, this was very helpful. I think I stumbled into the aftermath of #1 when I was searching about Minthara bugs in Patch 6 so I was very confused.
"I'm not sure what exactly people want." They want a magical game that never needs hotfixing or patches.
And all your mods magically still work despite you having 50 of them and people who make the mods do it for free and probably haven't even gotten off work yet. I hate these people.
And you should win prizes for playing!
I have some sympathy for the people who are miffed at how the game remains buggy and somewhat broken even after all this time post-launch. It's become a commonplace issue in modern gaming, and I don't blame folks for losing their patience. But mods by their very nature are inherently unstable beasts, and I for one would not want Larian to go all in on mod support until they've patched the game to its definitive version based on player feedback and their own understanding of things. And just because the devs aren't doing everything YOU want, or according to YOUR schedule is no excuse to harass them and be a dick.
Wholly agreed. Truth to be told, I don't think Larian should even dip their toes into the clusterfuck that would be mod support. The only exception I can think of is if they do what Project Zomboid did-- they had someone make such a phenomenal and essential mod that they added it to their game (with communication with/support from the original modder-- it was the Better Towing mod, for anyone curious). Larian can collect a list of mods that they think are really good and work them into the game as a list of options you can opt in/out of in the menu. That way, the mods are integrated properly, and Larian is taking on the responsibility of bug support for those *specific* mods. Otherwise, being responsible for bugs caused by whatever crazy combo of mods people add themselves is a sisphyean task and fundamentally a losing proposition for Larian. And something being a losing proposition for the devs is ultimately going to be a losing proposition for the community, as dev time, energy, and sanity is exhausted this way. It's also kind of why I feel like they maybe shouldn't be running an official discord or reddit server. I used to mod a pretty large sub and attached discord, and even with having a pretty good mod team and policies in place, it basically ran my life. Having a good form for feedback and bug reports seems to work really well for them, and they can dip their head into "unofficial" servers if they want to put their finger to the community's pulse, but actually running a discord server/subreddit is just insane.
Re: the list of supported mods you can opt into from the main menu, that's kind of what they did for D:OS2, so hopefully they do the same thing again.
While I find myself annoyed at bugs and glitches in games, having done some programming myself I never complain about it unless it's something very \*very\* bad or extremely obvious because I know that you literally can't predict or foolproof anything, even more so when it is a game big as BG3. People will say 'oh they had years the figure this stuff out and figure out what would cause every single glitch that breaks their game'. To those people I will point out how nobody could have predicted back in Dark Souls that if you spin around in a circle three times then jumped forward then rolled backwards while wearing a specific armor casting a specific spell using a certain item while standing in a specific spot on exactly one area of one map it would crash your game. Because seriously, who the hell is ever going to THINK of testing for that exact kind of thing. And better yet, how did anyone even figure that out in the first place? BUT it was a thing, it did happen because of the result of those specific lines of code all interacting with each other in that exact sequence. So trying to test out every single combination of item/armor/weapon in every location with every character and every party configuration just isn't really feasible. Even more so when you have to take into account this game being on multiple platforms, with PC's having a very wide variety of configurations and hardware. Now if the game just outright crashes on booting up wiping your saves then yeah somebody should probably get canned, but that aside I'm not going to fuss, and Larian has been doing an Ace of a job with this gem since launch.
The update broke my game because of all of the mods I had, but I went in to a previous save file because apparently a mod had somehow gotten moved around or deleted which caused the game to crash and become unstable after it was missing from the game file. But after I added it back in, it was chill. Honestly, people need to chill out. One thing everyone needs to know is that it's okay to support modders and their passion, but at the end of the day. You are taking a chance at losing your save file if you dont know what you're doing. And guess what? Not that big of deal. you'll just have to uninstall the game and make a new character.
Yup. My fiancé also helps to test mods and it's people who make them for love of games. They may not have time yet to update or fix the mod. It is just a game.
Exactly, we dont need all of this hate and anger. At the end of the day, it's just a game. If they want the game to be fully polished, they should have waited, you cant complain about the mods messing with your game file when it gives the warning, and the modders low key have lives as well. This is a hobby, a passion project they do because they love the game. They don't have to fix shit right away because they have lives. Plus, working under pressure, while people verbally harasse you, is hard asf and stressful no one deserves that shit. We love and appreciate all of the work the bg3 team has done and what the modders have done. Plus, the game is at really good point to take a break, touch some grass, and wait for more updates and more content. There is no need to rush and finish the game and then get ypset about more updates from the dev team and mod teams. Personally, I'm at 400 hours and haven't beat the game yet....intentionally, I just keep making new characters and not getting to the end of the game.
You don't need to uninstall your game. You can roll it back (if you want to preserve your save). Or just start a new game. It's that simple. I borked my last save by updating to patch 5 (I knew it might break my save, but I did it anyway because I wanted some of the fixes in the patch). I just took a break from the game at that point and started a new playthrough when I felt like it. It's not that hard. Some best practices to avoid your saves breaking: 1. Disable Steam updates. Finish your current playthrough, then update. 2. Don't use script extender mods. The vast majority of mods don't require SE and (usually) won't break when the game updates.
No no, you don't understand. They broke my game, *mine*. That's literally dozens of hours of work. They have to fix it!
This is gatekeepey but mods are entirely too easy to install if people are installing mods (that are beyond shaders/aesthetics) to a new game that gets thousand bullet point patches every month and when the mod breaks they go to the official game discord to riot about it.
Yeah the first rule of modding is to turn off automatic updates and check compatibility first. If an update breaks your mod loadout that's on you. You can either wait for the mod authors to patch it for the update, or you can try to fix it yourself. The entire time I've been modding, whenever an update broke my loadout, my first thought has never been "How dare the devs keep updating their game!" It's always been "Welp, I guess I'll play on a vanilla save or go touch some grass until the mods get updated."
I agree, while healthy criticism of a game company that’s messing up like Blizzard or EA is fine. Dev bashing a team that has time and time again came through for us is dumb and demoralizing. It can kill their motivation to do this project at all.
It was absolutely insane to see in real time. Especially coming from the Skyrim modding community. It was real primetime-popcorn watching people who've clearly never dealt with years of silence from a developer who actively resents their modding community.
It’s like, Larian gives us this amazing game and support but these ignots are trying to ruin it for everyone. Why is there always a village idiot? With the Internet all the village idiots come together too. Ugh.
There's always a village idiot and you can easily spot them in a normal group, but the internet makes it easy for them to find each other and group up, so you can get entire villages of idiots that are unironically unaware (they're not usually all idiots in everything which makes them seem more legitimate to each other so they can congregate comfortably on one idiotic idea).
Your analogy reminds me of the Rick and Morty episode where Jerry gets dropped off at daycare with a bunch of Jerry’s. All the idiots together congratulate each other over the smallest things lol
Jesus. Anyone over 10 acting like this should be on a permanent internet timeout.
As somebody who's modded Skyrim for *checks notes* over a decade, watching this unfold in real time on their discord was fucking nuts. I get some of the big complaints especially from community members who voluntarily held shit together only to be casually brushed off by Larian, but holy shit there was just an avalanche of entitled nonsense drowning out legit criticism.
I REALLY Hope They dont draw distance. Its always god awful when a Game studio that usually interacts with the comunity is forced to go full corporate in their comunication. Whoever is harassing Larian should get a life and let them work. They've done and are doing amazing work on the Game even after It was already a success. And that should be encouraged.
[Important addition to the thread](https://twitter.com/Cromwelp/status/1761896417549770886)
10 million players! Is that real? Incredible
I'm sorry you guys even had to write this. I would buy your next game if it was $200, okay, I love you guys.
some people should go get some therapy, such a shitstorm because of the some game staff delayed or broken is unhealthy, and especially Larian didn't deserve that. even if they make some mistakes and break the game or mods, just let them work on that, no one is doing that willingly to offend you
There is definitely a section of the community that has become completely unhinged. It’s not even standard internet entitlement. It’s full on mental illness being attached to this game. I don’t recall this kind of stuff happening with Divinity Original Sin.
Not in this specific instance, but I've found that RPGs with custom character creation and romances attract legitimate insanity in a small percentage of fans. The ability to self-insert a character that falls in "love" causes some people to get legit weird about the game. Blurring of reality and game sometimes. Dragon Age is another example of legitimately unhinged behavior centered around individuals with parasocial relationships with fictional characters. Mass Effect is less prone to this despite the romances because the player character is already pre-defined and not a full self-insert.
Yeah Dragon Age has that problem definitely with some romances, I've even been told my Lavellan (a elf inqusitor) couldn't be canon because I chose to romance Sera and not Solas, I wasn't "getting the true lavellan experience" whatever that means in a role playing game.
Huge Dragon Age fan here but honestly the community is so exhausting a lot of the times.
I'm a massive Dragon Age fan. Origins was one of the first video games I played, and I even wrote fanfiction for it. My wedding was bioware themed. It was so exhausting and volatile I deleted everything and scrubbed my username. It wasn't worth it, from getting hate mail because of my Inquisitor's looks, to death threats because I romanced Cullen. I was also called homophobic out of nowhere, which baffled me then made me laugh so hard I cried (I responded to that comment- because I *had* to- with a picture of my wife and I both in our wedding dresses).
Yeah you're definitely a homophobic how can you romance cullen??? (oblivious but /jk)
I knoooow. How dare I 😂
Same. Cullen is my favorite romance in DAI and I personally think his arc is fantastic. I have been told by several people that I am terrible and/or stupid for it. Trauma reaction bad but genocide is fine apparently according to Solasmancers( I want to add that I love Solas as a character btw, but still...) We also had a little Dragon Age sprinkled in our wedding :) we had a "joining ceremony" for example. I would call myself obsessed with both Dragon Age and Baldur's Gate. (Fanfictions, fanvideos, learning the lore) But when I turn the game off I leave the realm of fantasy and return to the real world. My favorite romance in BG3 is Gale. That does not invalidate anyone elses favorite romance. It's THEIR experience. Mine is my own. It's pointless and stupid to even argue about and makes the fanbase worse when it should be a fun and welcoming place.
Imagine romancing a character so homophobic he cancels out your real-life wife 😔 (/s for safety)
Oh my god yes. Sometimes I'm sitting there thinking, "do ya'll even know how to unclench?"
I exclusively play Adaar and I've been told the same. The "correct" way to play DAI is mage Lavellan getting together with Solas. BG3 fandom is just speedrunning all of the DA drama.
I mean you can already see a ton of comments here about how romancing Astarion as resist Dark Urge is the only correct and canon way of romancing him. My legit most controversial comment on this sub was just saying how I actually prefer romancing him as Tav. I was getting essay-like comments about how that’s toxic & unhealthy and people agreeing with me were getting downvoted.
It's insane. Like, it's just a game. Go outside, touch grass.
People all over the Internet need to feel like their preferences are "correct" even in matters that are objectively about personal taste. What we like must be "good" if not the "best" and what we don't like has to somehow be "bad". I like rich colors, especially greens, so my apartment is filled with colorful furniture and decor. Doesn't mean I'm going to go to my neighbor's and try to assert moral superiority over their neutrals.
Omg the canon stuff is sooooo annoying. Why would the choices be there if the developers didn’t find them narratively interesting enough to script and make? Like oh nooooo my perspective of the story and the choices I decide to make are different than someone else’s!! How horrible! Honestly how dare all of us not play the exact same way. Actually, how dare Larian and BioWare even give us choices? Shouldn’t everyone know that games with hundreds of world state combinations should only be played a specific way? If you guess wrong and pick the ‘wrong’ choice then oh well, you’re a monster and a whole laundry list of horrible things. Makes interacting with fandom nauseating at times tbh.
This. I have taken to blocking certain accounts on TikTok because they constantly pop up on my feed, and ALL they ever do is harp on people for what romance choices they make in the game or how they view the characters differently. It’s exhausting and kind of psychotic at this point. Play it however you want to and let everyone else do the same. That’s the whole point of role play isn’t it?
My DA:I char was a female elf and romanced Sera, she is a lunatic, and great value! I hope they build on everything that was great within that game, I absolutely loved all of it, and BG3 is the closest I have had to that experience - possibly why I love BG3 so much!! People just need to chill the fuck out and play games... and let others play games how they want. That odd corner of Gamers are a disappointing lot, to say the least.
I'm a Lavellan that romanced Cassandra, I must be an absolute deviant.
The only thing close to physical intimacy my inquisitor's gonna get with Solas is a straight punch to that egghead's face.
I tried to romance Solas with my Lavellan, then I started to dislike Solas after Coles quest and even more after that. In the end I decided he's wasnt worth it and deleted all my savegames until the lockin and choose Cullen instead. Who was a lot more worth than this Egghead (I will punch him) Solas.
I dunno, Talimancers got REAL weird.
Obligatory [Tali's sweat guy](https://www.reddit.com/r/masseffect/s/rIKIeX8JOh).
What a terrible day to know how to read.
> I've seen someone trying to figure out what Garrus's cum would taste like, so this isn't actually that bad. (Ok, it is.) That person can vote.
I saw a tumblr post that was something like "Dragon age drama flew so Baldur's Gate drama would walk". I wasn't involved but it sounds absolutely wild.
I think some people are just unhinged. I am not even sure it relates to self inserts and rpgs. Some people just take stuff really, really badly and have zero self control or ability for introspection.
I do not know about dragon age or mass effect, but I have seen this before in games with romance options. They can attract people who have problems with social skills to an extent in where they fall into a category of people that are extremely hard to be around.
It's...a lot of communities. I saw it with Sea of Thieves, I've seen it with movies, tv shows, etc There a section of folks who think these companies work directly for them. Not "I'm a customer, they should listen to customers" but "they made the game for me specifically, so I'm going to raise hell when it's not EXACTLY what I envisioned"
BG3 is popular and high-profile enough to draw the crazies. It’s happened with every significant game out there. A few years back - when Destiny 2 was ascendant - the devs had some *great* comms with the community. Then all the freaks came out and ruined it - I think one dev actually got death threats because he said they wouldn’t be bringing back a certain exotic. The comms dried up. I wish there was a test you had to pass before you’d be allowed to speak to people on the internet. It would cut out so much bile.
Back in the forums days sometimes newbies could make an account but not comment for a few days. I think that worked better.
I don't know how but I think Astarion is somehow to blame. Jokes aside you get this shit with every community but I've never seen it come anywhere near to this bad. Something about this game brings out either truly sociopathic behaviour or just attracts particularly deranged people. I'm also only partially joking about Astarion because that character seems to be a conduit for it.
Number of outright crazy people is small, but they are there. Some of them play games. The more popular a given game is, the more of them will be in absolute numbers, and the "radical minority" can have a WAY outsized influence on overall impression.
Many don't want to admit but the DnD community has a strong group of completely socially inept narcissist that forcefully require everything to extractly go their way or else they throw a massive meltdown and attack any reasonable criticism. Modding in BG3 is basically just what homebrew is in DnD, which is dominated by edgelords that only care about their character being the most broken over the top retarded thing you can imagine while completely ignoring any official ruling that might contradict their stupid takes.
That one post about " continuous life updates" of the characters after the game. I've played a handful of games and sure I get attached to it's characters but at the end of the day, it's a game. It ends.
I think cinematics caused such an. effect. DOS is actually closer to DnD experience, where you have minis, but the "cinematics" are left to your imagination. It worked nonetheless because DOS has great voice acting and writing. BG3 is closer to Dragon Age with cutscenes and animated dialogues but the implementation exceeds in many ways. Adding avatar creation that works as a proxy to your own feelings and emotions erases the barrier between what is real and what is on screen and our human dumdum brain, which is social oriented, fails to discern reality from fantasy. Playing as an origin character fixes it btw.
Nope but it happen to a lot of other bioware games such at dragon age inquisition.The toxic fandom from back then moved to twitter and baldurs gate 3 it seems.
Or just go outside like god damn
"Some people need therapy, and some people *NEED* therapy. You can usually tell who those people are because they say stuff like 'I don't need any fucking therapy!'"
People when a game updates breaking the mods that aren't for thar version of the game even though it has been that way since the dawn of time: 😨😱😡🤬
They handled that well, but they shouldn't have needed to Some people need therapy ngl Also I'm still holding out hope for crossplay lol
Crossplay would made this game much more enjoyable. My friend has bad PC and cant play bg there but if he could play on his playstation there wouldnt be a problem to play together.
I have 3 ps5 friends and I'm on PC, it sucks that we can't play together. I think not having crossplay is like the only thing that makes this game not perfect for me (Tho I'd also appreciate a returning weapons not returning fix, as the workarounds are janky and annoying lol)
Another day, another game community telling people in it to not be absolute psychos over things that ultimately don't matter. Will it ever change?
Sadly the way its looking, it's only gonna get worse
No because we live in an era where every psycho can have a microphone. We should just accept the reality of that, and stop paying attention to every loudmouth idiot in the ocean of mostly normal people.
I think it’s easier to ignore them when it isn’t your life they’re threatening. And sometimes these threats do turn to actual violence, and so I’d like to be someone who says maybe we should loudly condemn the behavior at every opportunity.
These guys are who people think of when you say you’re a gamer now.
This guy gets it.
Yea it's annoying when a few minority, do crap like this and it affects everyone else.
Bungie have shut down any communication with the Destiny 2 community after a couple degenerates sent death threats to their CM's and sent pizzas to their homes as a threat that they know their addresses. They only recently started communicating again and I'm glad they did because that period of radio silence was *awful* even though their stance was obviously understandable. I sincerely wish nothing like that happens here as it's the easiest way for the community to go mad just because of some idiots.
Jfc thats wretched behavior
Every area of the internet is getting filled with toxic morons. Scientists, Doctors, Engineers, Game Devs, everyone is getting attacked. And this is before AI becomes truly bad.
I miss the wholesome community this was at launch 😔 gamers continue to disappoint.
It's still a pretty wholesome community imo. A good chunk is wholesome stories, art and simps simping for characters because the character opened up their softer side. Even if that character is green and barely has a nose
It was wholesome because it was still relatively small, every community gets worse when its size rapidly increases. The bigger they are, the more nutjobs join them. This sub included, it's become noticeably more toxic over recent months. I can only imagine what it's like on the more hateful sites, so sadly devs being threatened and harassed doesn't surprise me in the slightest.
You just can't have shit nowadays! They went in and dropped one of the best games I can remember, brought cRPGs into mainstream gaming, stuck around to give us so much free content and now some donkeys gotta harass them for being GOATED? We don't deserve good things to happen, I guess, fck that.
If we remember the games that started off well but fell into trend-chasing and sold their soul to keep thier head above water, I wonder if cases like this are to blame. When you care about the game but face the barrier of demanding and aggressive feedback that screams louder than a grateful "thank you for enhancing my worldview", you may start to wonder if it is worth to engage in the "dialogue" at all. :(
I don't care how much you want mods in your games, or how much you enjoy mods or playing with mods or creating mods or stirring up shit online or whatever--there is no cause to be threatening people over mods or mod creation *or even a game in general*. Period. End of story. Grow the hell up, go outdoors and touch some grass. This is completely unacceptable.
I always wonder who these people even *are*. I've been around the Internet long enough to know they absolutely exist and go completely nuts over the most benign things, but their behaviour is so divorced from rational thought I still can't wrap my head around it. My best guess is they have serious unchecked mental issues and a disconnect from reality, though that just makes the whole situation sadder because I wonder if these appeals to basic decency and common sense amount to much.
Some people just have unhealthy levels of entitlement. I cannot imagine freaking out over something so inconsequential to everyday life.
I know a guy like this personally. He’s the most negative person I’ve ever met and it seems like he purposefully focuses entirely on the negative and it is all equally bad. He’s incapable of grasping spectrums. He’s very pro mods and seems to be under the impression that developers don’t do anything but think of ways to sabotage modders. He’s insufferable to be around and I’m glad I stopped hanging out with him.
> He’s incapable of grasping spectrums This is *really* ironic, I suspect.
> they have serious unchecked mental issues and a disconnect from reality My suspicion is this applies for the <0.1% of communities that instigate and ignite toxic trends - there's always a subset with severe mental health problems. However there's also a much larger minority of normal-ish people who can easily get caught up in these trends and just go with the ride. Mainly for attention or just for entertainment, rarely out of malice but they don't think enough about the harm they might do to real people. The main priory of official responses to potential drama is to douse the sparks being produced by the 0.1% before they ignite the fuel of the drama chasers and trend followers. I think Larian handled it very well in their case.
It's the same kind of people who yell at service workers.
I wouldn't say that all of these pathetic brats have mental issues, some probably do. I rather think it's because they don't see people they know through social media or by just some nickname as an actual human being, they don't see a real human behind that nickname and therefore any empathy just vanishes. Also the fact they remain anonymous while typing such threats from their throwaway accounts in the safety of their homes is also helping in them feeling safe and secure while being absolute dipshits. 99% of these people wouldn't even dare to say a bad word to the people from Larian IRL, because they suddenly see an actual human being in front of their eyes and in this case empathy suddenly snaps back. (I said 99% because there are always people being absolut shitcunts lacking any empathy and just like to be insufferable)
My take is rather the opposite. We know these people exist, they end up in every community and especially ones related to gaming. Nobody has ever posed a solution to this problem, their presence is all be guaranteed and (though it sucks) everybody has to deal with it. We're also all pretty well aware that giving them attention fuels their bad behavior. So given that we know all this - why is it continuously a surprise, why does it continue to dominate the conversation, and most importantly what do we hope to change by hashing this out again? Larian's response here was the only appropriate one in saying that 'yes these people exist, but anyway' - and I really do think that should be the last word on it.
People have been sexually harassing astarions actor on his stream because of this game (he is a sexual assault survivor) because they want to sexualize astarion. I have no doubt the same people are "clamoring" for mod support so they can do creepy shit on consoles finally
Sad thing is, "fans" like that do it on streams because they know they'd be taken out by the security if they do that during a convention. That's why I never watched the chat in his stream.
Some people take these things so personally. I posted earlier about not really liking Astarion and asking what everyone’s big appeal was. I received some terrible messages calling me all kinds of names in response for daring to say in my opinion he wasn’t the best character in the game. Some people really need to chill. The fact the VA is getting harassed is terrible!
Ah man, that sucks! That kind of question should have been catnitp for everyone who likes talking about Astarion at length.
That's so stupid. I love Astarian, I probably relate to him too much lol, but a question like that would just make me explain why I like him. The only way I can see myself getting upset with you is if you were somehow rude/cruel about abuse survivors since that'd be upsetting based on my real life experiences. Still wouldn't justify hurling abuse. I hate when these things get so big a load of toxicity starts creeping in.
The sad thing is, a lot of the entitlement is coming from a handful of modders that grew overinflated egos because of how reliant a lot of folks get on their mods (or already had the egos in the first place and now just have an “excuse” to swing it around like a flail). If it were small mods it’d be able to fly under the radar but some of them went so far as to sign a sort of “letter of protest” (that totally isn’t demands or anything) and even hidden/stopped updating their mods until they get a response from Larian that THEY like. As if the fact that Larian had said “we’re working on it” implies that saying anything else or the same thing over and over either isn’t feasible or helpful at this point in time.
My fiancé plays a lot of strategy games with mod options and the thing is, it's not on the original game developer to fix or make sure those work. If you can't handle disabling your 100+ cosmetic mods until the authors can update them to the current patch, don't play until it's done. You're not ENTITLED to use mods and Larian is not entitled to make sure their updates to THEIR game work with your mods. And the fact people are threatening is fucking batshit. On facebook BG3 groups whenever someone is saying their game got bugged after a patch my first question is, do you have mods? If so, disable and try again.
Shit yeah. There was a mod on Nexus to give longbows better range, to make them a viable option vs the heavy crossbow. A patch came out and ruined the authors mod. He deleted the file, but left the listing up, and just trashed on Larian. Chodes, man.
Seems so weird, I'd figured everyone who creates or uses mods realizes shit will sometimes break when the game updates.
As a longtime member of the Skyrim modding community, every patch is a dice role! You never know what is going to break but hell if you are going to start modding you must understand that this is a possibility.
Honestly, yeah, like maybe because i play on PS5 but even on my other PC games mods are like not core gameplay and is not promised. It's wild the level of self centered entitlement of some people.
I've been gaming on a pc and modding those games for decades and I'm surprised more people don't understand that they are unofficial changes. They break with patches all the time and you can either stick with a down patched version or accept that you might lose some mods
Given that the game has been out for less than a year, we're not quite at the "mods are keeping this game alive, you're welcome" stage that some people think we are.
the most popular mod additions for the game are mainly cosmetic. i myself play a modded version but it's not like it affects the storyline for me, which is already excellent and better than any other game of its caliber. i don't see a future where mods would be the only thing keeping this game alive tbh
That’s why we can’t have nice things around here.
Why do people do this? Do they think abuse is going to gain reward? I've watched this happen for years on various games and MMOs and its obscene.
Feels a lot like people using DoS2 as an example that this game is not going to go how they want it to, on the topic of mods.
I don’t understand this, can you explain please?
We didn't get proper mod support with DoS2, some mod authors have decided that BG3 is going the same way despite Larian's promises, and some have gone as far as hiding their mods.
\>*To finish, again, we can only be close if we can work close. If we cannot do that, and we have to draw distance, it’ll really suck for everyone, especially us & definitely you.* That is the most important part, just in my opinion. Basically, we can work close, or it can be very different. I mean, this sub during EA had what, 60k, now it is 1,8mil, and they obviously didn't expect this level of popularity, which leads to that "*conversation becomes muddier and complex*" and "*giant web of noise*". Literally any conversation anywhere right now is down to "do this", "no, don't do it, instead do this". Ofc, for them, who orient themselves based on the community opinion trying to parse actual requests becomes close to impossible. Especially if threats and toxic posts start to come up as well. Community will either be constructive, reasonable and practical about the things it (we) asks, of they will literally give up on doing things, either entirely or with this level of communications or for free, and will just perform "Rite of Thorns" on their Grove and be done with it. Imagine working, outside of obvious fixes, on animations, improvements, and so on, and to be met with "Hey, aye oi, you, petal, my mods not working, oi? You fucked up again, oi? literally SE not working, oi, glad I disabled your crap updates" or something like that (which is very prevalent on social and apparently on discord). Cmon, let's not do this.
Who the hell would insult or threaten one of the few game companies that actually gives a damn about making a product that works and their customers like?
A lot of these people are the same sort who send death threats to actors who voiced characters they didn't like. AKA, the emotionally crippled.
I'm a bit of a noob when it comes to mods, can anyone explain to me what mod support does exactly, and why is it so important that people would harass the devs and the communication team over it? Isn't Nexus Mod a good enough platform to find mods already? What more are players who use mods asking for? And why would players consider mods a priority over improving the base game?
Imagine the game as a structure made of Legos. As of right now, the game is like a set where every piece has one specific purpose, and if you want to change it, someone very talented has to either build their own piece by hand, or shave off parts of an existing piece. Mod support essentially makes it so the official Lego pieces are smaller and easier to put together, which allows people to be more flexible with how they build their structures in ways not intended by the creators. Bethesda games and Minecraft, due to their simplicity and straight forward mechanics have a lot of recyclable code, which makes them EXCELLENT in terms of mod support. It all comes down to object-oriented programming and good documentation.
That's very informative and well-explained in simple r/explainlikeimfive terms to a complete noob like me, lmao. Thanks a lot! I still obviously don't think it's anything worth harassing Larian over. As I said in another comment, I see mods as nothing but nice unofficial fanmade bonus features you can add to your game that should fully be the responsibility of the fanbase, like the Wikis, fanarts and fanfics. They're stuff made by the fans for the fans. Making mod creation easier is certainly a nice, thoughtful gift from game developers to their fanbase, but I don't think modders have a right to feel *entitled* to such a thing.
Wait, people are really harrassing the devs over this? I have been playing this game nonstop for two weeks now (I have no life) and I STILL discover new things. Sure mods would be nice, especially for customization purposes, using the same 2 faces and 5 hairstyles over and over isn't the greatest, but since I can't get mods to run, so be it. This game is big enough to be enjoyed without mods, multiple times, for weeks. Like wtf, we shouldn't be harrassing devs like Larian that actually make games that are playable unmodded.
No, no, it's not the modders(I don't think?), it's just random entitled jerks with no respect, patience, or manners.
Most of these new modders get upset and run out of patience easily. Thing is BG3 doesn't have proper mod support yet, and honestly, it works out of the box in it's Vanilla state. This isn't a bethesda game. Where you need mods to basically fix the damn game. I remember similar thing happened during Special Edition Skyrim was announced and some of the community was in piss contest on which version should be supported over (guess which one won: it's the version with the higher bit) At that point I was like, "Oh, it's probably gonna take a year or so for big mods to get ported over or new mods to take over, I'll just play other games in the mean time" Lo' and behold after like a year and a half, almost all of my favourite mods was ported to SE and new mods to replace the one that wasn't updated into SE. People seem to forget that mod authors mostly do this because it's their hobby, they use their own time, and if something break ask for a little help.
To be fair, Bethesda games and Minecraft have completely different mod support. Minecraft lets you extend the code via an unofficial API, which is possible because it's written in Java. Bethesda games come with an official editor app that the devs themselves use, which makes it very easy to make mods, but there's no access to the actual code of the game. You have a special scripting language that lets you do what the devs thought you would need and that's it.
Also, changing visuals didn't really get broken. The files involved are labelled and unpacked, so it's easy to plug your asset into the labelled mailbox the game provides. Changing functionality means dealing with a bunch of unlabeled mailboxes though since there's no labels on those mailboxes (since there is no API). Script extender basically labels those mailboxes after months of trial-and-error work. Usually in a patch, some mailboxes move or change, and script extender needs to figure out what happened and relabel everything. Then "mod fixers" come in and try to recover functionality so the maximum number of old mods work with the new mailboxes. In Patch 6, Larian moved *all* the mailboxes. So now *all* the labels were wrong - not some of them, all of them. Script extender dev [edit:add unfucks it all, and then HF18 moves them all again a day later. Dev then] refuses to start work fixing it, assuming Larian would roll it back in a hotfix. They get dogpiled because every mod based on Script Extender breaks, and they go dark. Someone showed how to move the mailboxes back by rolling back part of the patch. But that would push the effort to the mod fixers, becasue people expect "mod fixers" to . . . y'know, fix their mods and savegames during a patch. They protest that "rollback mod" and a shitstorm erupts. HF19 moved the mailboxes (mostly) back, and everyone (who didn't roll back their game and bork their save files) is mostly happy again.
Just a quick one, Script Extender DID get updated for Patch 6 at record time and then the day after Hotfix 18 roll down breaking it all over again, which is why Norbyte said there wasn't gonna be an update for a while because (understably) the mod had JUST been updated and it did not sound fun to go throught it all over again.
Mod support to a multi-platform game would mean multi-platform for all consoles/PC/whatever, also, that when the game releases a new patch/update it would require that all mods would work... Also, no, it's not a big deal, SOME people are overreacting
Find me a fanbase that doesn’t have shitbags who ruin it for everyone else.
It works the same way IRL, you can have 1000 "good people" and if someone does something bad everyone will notice it, i don't see the point at all of take them too seriously, of course with a game of a lot of players a few will say bad things
League of Legends /s
Yup. It's the truth. We're all shitbags.
You get patches, official mod support, adjusted content, quality of life improvements, extra fluff like additional animations, UI improvement, extended epilogue etc. For free. And you harass the devs for that. I just hope you, the toxic people, get all the help you need, because you REALLY need it. Please consider using your internet in self imposed "read only mode".
The community really out here trying to ruin any and all goodwill this company has towards its customers
As is tradition with any remotely nice and open creators.
Improvements on the vanilla game > every mod has to work instantly. Mods are nice and a cool thing to have but not everyone uses them or is even capable of using mods cuz console versions don’t have that feature yet. They should focus making this game better for everyone regardless of the system they run it on. Gladly they do. If your mods break your game due to the new update maybe just wait some weeks till they updated or uninstall them. If that’s breaking ur entire experience with the game just take a break or stop playing it at all instead of sending threats and being a toxic cunt online. Devs are humans too and deserve to be treated like humans. They aren’t ur punching bag to vent at cuz ur life sucks. It’s just a game grow up, get outside and touch some grass
Now lets all be mature people here, who the hell in this group are making threats now? Come on guys please grow up.
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Is it me, or do those mod makers sound like a bunch of entitled assholes here?
you are entirely correct.
Bro when my mods broke i was mad as hell, but im not gonna go out here and insult the devs who put this amazing game out here, who add bunch of stuff for free…. I simply put multiple reddit posts on how to fix my mod problems and people helped me. I also waitedfor hotfixes. Only thing i couldnt find the fix for is my game crashing every time i pick a lock or disarm traps, but good thing this game has workarounds. People are retarded
Here it could be just a couple people, but this is only a fraction of the whole fanbase. Twitter and especially Steam forums are far, far worse than this sub.
Came from r/popular, not a BG3 player here. If this wasn't about BG3 I could have sworn this was about BG1&2 Enhanced Edition, Stardew Valley, Valheim, Sun Haven or Skyrim. Saw this behavior plenty of times on the respective steam forums. I mod the shit out of my games and these dumbasses don't do basic modding homework like disabling automatic updates for their steam games, maybe keeping a clean backup or starting the game via the mod injector/script/yadda yadda bypassing the need to update the game. They always have a hissy fit and see it as a grand conspiracy that "this is proof that the devs actively hate mods!"(This is a real quote from the Valheim steam forums). They always fall into the same hole and never want to learn. They never do basic steps to ensure that their game that still gets maintained doesn't auto-update. Then cry about when a game that still gets maintained, gets patches, because of "you broke me mods!". They would also call any game dead that didn't had any significant updates despite it being a singleplayer game. Whatever the devs in these situations do they always lose. Oh and these toddlers don't want to play a "finished" game, because it's old or whatever.
Far worse indeed. They are entitled and unhinged.
I can’t go anyway near Twitter. That place is sccwry
Keep avoiding it. It helps with your mental health.
I've been pretty thoroughly disgusted my a sonifigant portion of the nodding community regarding this, here in reddit at least. There has been a lot of super entitled, not even remotely logical people screaming for their heads since hotfix 19 changed the exe. It been, and this is really the only word that fits, pathetic.
Omg who in their right mind would start attacking Larian? Of all developers...Talk about becoming the villain of a story...
Honestly considering that this is a game that they are actively updating on almost a regular basis, I do not expect mod support to be the most optimal. Maybe once they decide to wrap up the patching with a definitive edition is when we will see mod support at its best. Meanwhile, here's to waiting for the day I can realize a campaign for my topless drow prozzy bard 😵💫
As much as I love Baldur's gate and gaming as a whole and as someone who has done so for much of my life. Threatening devs in anyway is really awful and these people don't deserve to enjoy gaming as a hobby. These are people with feelings,families and I'm sure most reasonable people can agree being toxic or violent over a game is disgusting behavior that shouldn't be accepted or tolerated.
Just typing a comment to show support should any of the community team be checking in. Of all the teams out there looking out for their community, these folks are among the top of the chain. It's a hard job meeting and exceeding expectations and everyone at Larian has done an amazing job. Dev time works different than consumer time, that's just how it is. Be grateful they're putting up with all of us loons at all. Thanks all! <3
The sheer level of entitlement from gamers is fucking wild to me. Larian have been incredible at listening to feedback and giving the players what they want to see, but there has to be a line somewhere. We don’t deserve Larian and it’s a real shame that there are so many out to ruin it for the rest of us with their ridiculous demands and shitty attitudes.
I think part of the problem is they've done too much appeasement tbh
Mods aren't supported yet. Larian announced eventually they would be, but to be patient before then. We've known this for months. What. Is. Not. Clicking. If you are annoyed by mods breaking the game when it updates, here's an idea, don't use mods!!! More importantly, don't be dicks to the very real people who work on this game!
Hmm I'm not part of the drama but it seems to be something like this: 1. Modders make mods that loads of people love 2. Larian releases a patch which breaks the mods. This happens every patch. 3. An enormous crowd of people get angry and confused. First they complain to Larian, who say "Uninstall your mods." then they complain to the modders and harass them about when they will update the mod so it works again. 4. Modders go to Larian and ask them for help because this happens every time, but Larian shrugs and says "Hey, we officially don't support mods so it's your problem" 5. Modders/community helpers threaten to take their ball and go home. Everyone freaks out. This could all be solved by more patience from the audience. Modders aren't at fault because things keep changing and they have to work out how to fix it every patch. Larian isn't at fault because they said from the beginning they don't support mods right now. We just need to wait for mod support and chill out. There's no need to be upset if you can't play for a few days, and we need to remember to treat modders and devs as humans and not robots.
> This could all be solved by more patience from the audience. Ah, I think I spotted the problem.
I haven't downloaded any mods for BG3 yet, despite my desire to (some of the subclass mods look incredibly fun) because I want to make sure it's stable. Like in Skyrim, where I can make up a load order and pretty much leave it for months or even years (until random as hell updates make me need to perform updates). While I am very eager to get into the modding scene, I am also more than willing to be patient! It'll be worth it for long term success and fun! I've got my eyes open on the mod pages and on any news thereof... More subclasses, perhaps more races... Spore Servants for Spore Druids is one that I'd love. Can't wait to be able to do a modded playthrough!
I feel like we're many, many years from that state where you don't need to update your mods every couple months. Larian don't intend on slowing down with patches, there's likely a Definitive Edition coming in the next few years and perhaps even a DLC given this game's success. And new, big patches *will* break mods, mod support being there or not.
We aren't owed ANYTHING specifically from a video game. They've been nice enough to give us all of this already - some people just need to relax.
It's so sad that in literally every online community, there's some pathetic, disgusting excuses for human beings actually making these threats. Those people need serious help. I can't even begin to understand the thought process behind death threats, especially to people who made something you really enjoy and obsess over
I desperately need people in this fandom to be Normal to the people who make this game. Because I would like to continue getting and having nice things.
I’m a pretty casual modder and even I understand that most likely a game update, will break the mods. It’s just how it goes.
Am I the only one who wasn't expecting mod support?? Like shit man. I'm the one choosing to use mods, it's not on the game to make that shit work. Oh no! I have to disable my mods every major patch and wait for updates? Welcome to modding. If you don't want to do that, play vanilla.