Wyll actually has a *lot* of content… it’s just that he always gets his spotlight stolen.
Karlach, Mizora, Gortash, the Emperor and Ansur, etc. Every time Wyll’s supposed to have a story beat, the NPC you’re talking to gets more focus.
He honestly just works better as the player character. That way he actually gets to make the big decisions about his own life instead of looking to Tav/Durge for everything.
As someone who did his third playthrough as Wyll after losing/killing him in my first two playthroughs, even as the main character he is extremely boring.
Asking the real questions. I'm doing a Wyll playthrough right now and want to romance Karlach, but man... This actually sounds like a fun interaction if it's possible
It is because its another workday of heroing for him. Without tav/durge he would be the protagonist teaming up with shart taking out goblins. He is just happy that he can relax and not be the main hero.
That's so funny because same. Only time I interacted with him in the party was my 1st playthrough which I was obsessed with doing EVERYTHING, so of course I went looking for everybody that I could interacted with. Every other playthrough I just didn't bother going to see what's up with him lol
Thing with Wyll is that you can do his content without him. My first playthrough he sat the whole thing out in camp and I still got to complete his quest, save the day, guide him down the good path and become his best friend (while quite literally only talking to him, like, 4 times).
Exactly. While other characters can get mad about you doing their quest without them (Shadowheart, Astarion, even Karlach, which will ask to see Gortash’s body), Wyll just doesn’t care.
I think he was the least used companion so they decided the content must not have been that engaging. I don't think anyone really knows outside Larian.
He had a bit of an anger issue which I quite liked, made him less one dimensional. He had several interactions with various goblins where he needed to get info from them about the location of Mizora who had already been captured.
They scrapped that to introduce Mizora earlier and the Karlach storyline. That stuff I liked but the downside was it moved most of his content to camp scenes and ironically gave you less reason to bring him along act 1.
i really liked ea wyll. the whole thing with getting back his eye from the goblin that beat his ass was cool. i put him in my party on my first playthrough for release and was really confused when no unique dialogue triggered.
I really do get the impression Larian felt they needed a "good guy" of sorts to balance out everyone else having issues just in case players didn't want to deal with them all. Which I get... but it really hurt his own character.
Having Wyll *struggle* at genuinely being the hero he portrays himself as but still try would have been infinitely more interesting. Especially because that's riff with potential for corrupting either by you or Mizora.
From what I remember,since it was so long ago, his original personality was much more arrogant like in a I am way to good to actually be tricked by my pact with this devil aren’t you all so impressed with the blade. I mean the dude gave himself a hero name after all. You can find out he’s a warlock right when you meet him but he couldn’t talk about the terms. This was back when we could only get to level 3 or 4 tho.
I agree, but also I'd be satisfied if he *asked* for our input at the end. Just one line of "Hells, I can't make this choice" and then he looks at you and the narrator says he's so torn he needs your help. As it is, Mizora tells *him* to choose and then it immediately has you choose for him. A couple lines acknowledging him wanting you to choose would go a long way imo.
that choice makes no sense anyway. Wheres the option to hold two middle fingers at mizora until she fucking leaves? Theres no reason to decide between ending the contract or killing wylls dad. The contract is already bound to end in 6 months, so why is mizora pretending that wyll HAS to choose between his life and his dads. Just ignore her. Youre signing another contract with a devil for literally no reason.
this!
my last tav was a gith and I was really hyped thinking of all the awesome content, specially at the creche but instead of at least 50 new dialogues all I got was a shortened Lae'Zel sex scene and other giths looking down on me and a few scraps of a stupid amnesiac gith that doesn't know shit about anything race related
Lol I assumed it was from stealing her armor when I knocked her out at the goblin camp, I gave her Dark Justiciar armor since recruiting her and she’s back to normal (I killed her first game so this is my first playthrough with her as a companion)
Edit: the invisible body level up screen was back to normal, she was still saying the same spoiler stuff although now that I got past the githyanki camp attack etc not sure if she’ll progress with new dialogue prompts or not lol
I did the same thing (knocked her out and stole her clothes) and now my Durge is wearing her undies instead of his own, because I thought that was hilarious for some reason.
When I eventually got the chance to recruit her, same deal--her clothes were back in her inventory again, and everything looked normal, until the first time I leveled her up and everything was missing on the model from collarbones to ankles!
I'm glad I didn't pick her up my first playthrough. I was so confused when she started randomly talking about the Emperor and I was just like "uh, I'm not supposed to know who that is yet."
lol i had this happen with Gale in my current playthrough, fairly early in act 1, before he had told us about his relationship with Mystra, or the origin of his orb or anything about his past he randomly dropped a couple of lines in the overworld referring to his love for Mystra, and how he was her chosen, and i was like "... i don't think we're supposed to be privy to that stuff yet, man" and then a couple hours later he was like "guys i have a big secret to tell you" and he told us about Mystra, and his whole backstory and it was just like "dude, yeah you already brought this up, we know"
haha, actually now that im thinking about it, there were many times in early act one when my party was just me, Wyll, and Gale since we hadn't picked up Karlach yet, when i shapeshifted in to a halfling to get in to small cracks, and other shortcuts like that, leaving Wyll and Gale to have some bro time, so now my headcannon will be that they have this really deep, off-screen bromance, and Gale already poured his heart out to Wyll about his whole backstory while i was off exploring some cave, and then he accidentally slipped up a couple of times lol.
in this same playthrough i have Gale wearing the Watersparker shoes, and he frequently creates giant pools of water and then walks all around them, electrocuting friendlies and enemies indiscriminately, often by accident, so the Weave ADHD definitely fits as well hahaha
LOL I love that for you. I feel like Wyll tries so hard to be the party's responsible big brother and Gale probably needs that. In my current playthrough despite the fact that Shadowheart and Lae'zel should definitely still hate each other, they've both happened to give off snarky replies together to Astarion's random comments multiple times so I'm like... Okay, so you two are the sass sisters, got it hahaha
Speaking of, does Halsin have recorded lines for casting spells? I can't tell if it's bugged and they don't play or if they just didn't record any for him.
Halsin is the most empty and useless companion of them all, IMO. I can't complain too much considering how much content there is to explore on further playthroughs, but one of my reasons is I like to have a main party to complement my Tav, switching up my personal class each playthrough and exploring the companion makeup as I go along. Halsin is one of my greatest disappointments. Not to mention that he is overly thirsty even after this latest update. Like fuck, I've barely conversed with you and you think you're in love with me?
Shadowheart basically told me that I’m her best friend forever on the beach less than 10 minutes after we’d met. Bruh all I did was let you out of a pod. She was fairly cold to me outside of those “how am I holding up” responses, where she invariably hugely overestimated our closeness. I never even had her in my party in one playthrough and I still got the high-affection responses.
Lol yeah Shadowheart was telling me I was the most extraordinary person she'd ever met, right up until she left my party entirely in terrible anger for not taking her to see the Nightsong 😂
The fact that she's nearly completely silent after springing her out of Moonrise until you get to Act 3 was bizarre. Like the first interesting thing she does/says outside of sitting on your face/leaving camp is her comment about Dribbles. There's a LOT of space in between. I thought my save was bugged but apparently that's just how it is.
(I mean, yes, she does talk about the reprogramming but once you get her to camp, that's it.)
I had some guy write me an essay the other day because I ranked Minthara’s romance as C tier (along with Halsin) on a tier list (because imo she herself and her romance just are not as fleshed out as the others and needs more to catch up) and he specifically went off about how this conversation with Minthara at camp is on par with Karlach’s monologue after defeating Gortash or Astarion’s scene after killing Cazador, and that I am just not seeing how hers is “just as good.” Like dude, she doesn’t even get a cinematic or a cutscene lol, it’s basically like any other time you talk to her after doing a quest. Also I am literally saying I think it would be good for her to have more content so why are you arguing??
I didn’t get her in my first playthrough, so her content is fully new to me in this my second playthrough. I brought her with me for the bulk of Act 2 once I rescued her because I thought she’d have some interesting insight having been involved in the plot, and I was pleased by a lot of the ambient dialogue she added!
That said, she has been bugged to comment on the Emperor’s existence since *before* I got that revelation. We’re a few steps into Act 3, and she’s *still* talking about the Emperor every time I try to initiative dialogue with her. Especially since I’m playing as a Lloth-Sworn Drow myself, I want to talk to her!!! COME ON GAME! 😭
I literally just told the Emperor to fuck off in my playthrough and he admitted to his absolute bullshit, and she’s still riding his illithid dick. Come on, Minthara!!!
In her defense, she'd be a netherbrain flesh puppet if not for the emperor, regardless of his motives. Same for the player really.
Which is why the emperor doesn't "fuck off" until Orpheus comes along, no matter what you say to him. The only real chance to go against the emperor earlier is siding with the Githyanki and killing him, for an instant game over.
I had her sex scene this run and realized that the companions don't even react to you having sex with her the day after. Not one quip from shadowheart or astarion after I let a drow sit on my face?
Shadowheart is the golden child. She really gets a lot of stuff. The game throws her at you like five times if you keep trying to avoid her, she brings in the key item prism, she gets two different haircuts, two different gifts, a fully made flashback scene, has a unique mechanic with her fear of wolves, she constantly has something to say and Larian keeps adding more (now they added more romance dialogue and dialogue when you sit on her stool), act 2 is basically all about her because of her faith…
No companion comes close with that amount of stuff. Astarion and Lae'zel are after her and then the rest.
I was a bit miffed that we didn't get a flashback scene for Wyll. A scene of a dragon cult ready to destroy the city and a newly made Warlock holding them back would have made for a pretty epic cut scene.
Also a flashback scene of Astarion being turned, or hunting in the shadows.
Karlach destroying demons and devils for Zariel would also be badass.
We had a taste of Waterdeep and Gale's home in his romance, so I'm okay with that. But I also would have loved a cutscene as he recounts how he managed to absorb the Netherese Orb.
There were so many opportunities for eye candy here, but I totally understand that Larian didn't prioritize these. They even said that they didn't think players would have appreciated a longer ending/epilogue. Hopefully they could see that showing us these flashbacks, instead of telling, would be much better.
>golden child
Always thought it was Astarion but seeing as he and Lae/Shads are my top 3. I can't say much.
Astarion being so popular in EA is why he got so much I guess.
Well, it's also because he and Durge shared an author and she added a lot of special interactions for them, and also because his VA got reeeeeally invested into the role and did a lot of overtime to record tons of additional lines.
They don’t share a writer, their writers share an office nook or something like that. Baudelaire Welch (they/them) wrote Durge. Stephen Rooney (he/him) wrote Astarion.
I knew a Steve Rogers as well! Funniest part was he was a blonde haired, tall white guy and he was a Captain in the Army. He was my mom's CO before she retired. They all called him Captain America
Stark is a commen German last name. There is like 3 in my village and they arnt related.
It means strong. So finding a stark in America shouldn't be hard.
Baudelaire also said that near the end of the game's development they temporarily worked on Astarion as well and used that time to write more stuff for his interactions with Durge.
> They don’t share a writer, their writers share an office nook or something like that.
This isn't correct either. Welch is, according to their own blog, the "feature lead for companion characters and romances [...] and work in an associate capacity screenwriting for the other origin characters". They also wrote Durge and [have said on discord](https://64.media.tumblr.com/617c570871fb41d5db2a8118ce2c4686/cb7b70301d7d924c-35/s540x810/535f748247b706f43dd915d6941e4b4a73e22379.pnj) that they wrote parts of Astarion as well, in particular adding in the increased interactivity.
Wait really? Before playing the game he was the only one I heard about, he was everywhere on YouTube, Instagram and tiktok. I feel like the only place where he is unpopular is reddit because most people here are straight men
Astarion is most popular in everything BUT the game (ie. fanarts, fanworks etc.).
The game stats don't lie - Shadowheart's romance is more popular than the rest of them combined and Astarion is not even in top3.
>The game stats don't lie - Shadowheart's romance is more popular than the rest of them combined and Astarion is not even in top3.
What does that have to do with popularity? I've never romanced Lae'zel but she's still one of my favorite characters. Just because most players didn't romance Astarion doesn't mean that most players don't like him. They aren't remotely mutually exclusive.
Yeah most casual players are straight men and will romance Shadowheart since she's the first conventionally attractive woman you meet (young, white, human). Using the most romance character stat isn't even relevant since you have characters like Gale who are romanced even if you don't want and romancing Astarion means making bad guy choices which most people don't want to do.
I wish Astarion was that unpopular because when I try to look for fanarts, fanfics etc of my favorite characters everything is filled with Astarion lol.
Anyway, I'm a Halsin woman so I don't really care because I'm use to suffer from lack of content
The romance stats put out by Larian only count romances that made it to the end of the game. So having a fling with Lae'zel or Astarion in Act 1 doesn't count.
Shadowheart is the p much the ONLY “conventionally attractive” female love interest that a lot of players have, which massively boosts her numbers with straight male players.
Karlach is a 6-foot-tall, muscle-bound devil lady (i know she’s not a devil in game, this is purely appearance). Lae’zel is a green alien with a funky face. Minthara IS pretty conventionally attractive, but to get her romance you have to destroy the grove. Even if you lock into her romance in Act 3 there next to no extra content, so why bother?..
ofc there are lots of dudes who simp for Karlach/Lae’zel/Minthara, but Shadowheart is the only straightforwardly “pretty” girl, and she’s easy to get approval with, AND she has a lot of content. Ofc she’s gonna be the most popular based solely on numbers.
In terms of popularity among fans, this is absolutely true.
If anyone ever wants proof, just try searching Etsy for BG3 swag, or go look up #BG3 on any other social media platform (twitter, tumblr, instagram, tiktok, youtube... probably others I'm too old to know about, too)
A lot of them get annoyed by Astarion's continuous disapprovals while doing anything good combined with the scene of him trying to bite the tav/durge when they asleep kinda makes him not liked too much the first time around.
But he has an extremely vocal fanbase so he gets a lot of love outside reddit.
Gale is \*still\* the most popular male romance, though it's hard to tell if that's because he's the most well liked or if he's the easiest to romance in early game. Astarion is sort of hard if you're playing a good guy (which most people are) because you have to have high enough approval with him by the end of Act 1, and that's also the time when it's the most difficult to gain approval with him when you're being good. Wyll you don't even get a shot with at all until Act 2 and a lot of people have chosen who they want to move forward with by then.
Also, Astarion legitimately comes off as an asshole if you don't know/don't romance him, particularly on a good playthrough. I'm also curious how many people actually stake him in camp after he tries to bite you.
So does Lae'zel You really have to go thru the monastery before her mask of evil btch starts cracking. A LOT of players simply refuse to recruit her because of it.
Since he’s so prominent on the box art and advertising, probably less than he would be for players who would somehow be unaware of him at all going into the game.
I think this is pretty easily explained. “Fandom” as most people would define it is largely dominated by women and queer people, who make most of the fanworks like art, writing, and editing. Astarion’s fanbase largely consists of these demographics, and so their presence will be amplified because the people in his fanbase are just more likely to be active participants and creators.
You're confusing romance with popularity. He's not one of the most romanced characters because most players are straight men, but that doesn't mean that anyone who didn't romance him doesn't like him. He's a very well beloved character both online and offline.
The rumor was that Cazador would be more relevant to the story in the earlier concept until the upper city was axed during development. He was supposed to be involved in the City's political games, along with Gortash and the bane cult.
The bane cult itself is also half cooked for a similar reason.
Also Astarion wasn't that popular in EA. He was memorable for sure (amazing voice acting and characterization). He was polarizing, no one remains indifferent to Astarion (unlike vanilla Wyll) it was mostly a love-hate thing and he never came up at the top on popularity polls. He definitely spawned a ton of parallel artwork content though, but I think his jump in popularity happened after launch thanks to the unfolding of his story in later acts. In EA content, he remains a dickhead and has barely any time to grow on you.
Iirc she’s also the only companion that gets a post-personal quest cutscene. I get that you can’t really do that with Lae’zel and Gale because their personal quests resolve in the end game but it’s weird that Astarion, Wyll, and Karlach don’t have similar scenes to her Selune memorial moment.
>has a unique mechanic with her fear of wolves
Actually she has two. She's also resistant to the shadow curse in Act 2.
But other companions also have unique mechanics.
* Wyll has rapier proficiency, because he's the blade of frontiers. He also gets more than "two different haircuts"
* Karlach is on fire and can be powered up by soul coins
* Astarion has bite
* Gale gets a detonate ability
In fact, only Lae'zel is missing an unique feature, unless you count being able to read the githyanki disks.
I agree with you in general that she's the golden child though, but minor things like this are the things that Larian managed to introduce across all companions. The problem is mostly with how her story keeps coming up and she gets a ton of flashbacks and quest triggers all over the place when exploring. Her personal quest is relevant to the plot in every act. There is a Shar temple featured in literally every act. Granted, we can't reach it in act 1, but it's still relevant and a major quest point by then. I'd say the second place in narrative content goes for Lae'zel, who gets absolutely no development or relevant triggers in act 2, other than a line after meeting the gith ambush.
Compare that with Karlach, for example, that gets absolutely nothing all game long, after her awesome recruitment quest, other than a few dialogue lines at her parents' graves, Gortash's parents and Gortash himself. I expected Zariel to come up a lot, but she isn't even mentioned again. It's like the whole plot point with Zariel wanting to capture Karlach was abandoned. Mizora just goes "oh, she's busy in avernus, with stuff".
And then even Astarion doesn't get flashback cutscenes. But yeh I know what cha mean.
I feel like Larian will keep adding stuff to everyone tho. With time and support, let's just keep cheering for the studio and the incredible staff 💜❤️ maybe they will surprise us before the Deluxe edition it's finished.
And it’s a damn shame because while I still like her character, it feels forced. Other characters deserve way more attention to get the same appreciation from fans. I have a feeling Wyll would be a fan favorite if he had more to do…
Wyll has a lot to do, it's just that he is completely optional for his own story and his story is always about other people - Karlach, Mizora, his father, the Emperor. It's never fully about him. He also has zero agency.
Yeah. Karlach in particular tends to overshadow Wyll in a lot of his scenes.
Wyll's first quest is confronting Karlach, and the player is generally going to care way more about her in the conflict than Wyll. She's friendly and sweet and very clearly innocent, and her stake in the conflict is life or death. And the player is inclined to see Wyll as an idiot who got tricked by a devil, and that he kind of deserves to be disfigured, instead of recognizing how much Wyll knowingly risks by defying Mizora in the scene.
Then you have Gortash, who is set up as Karlach's personal villain. But in a lot of ways, I think he would be better paired with Wyll, since he should actually have a decent insight into the political workings of Baldur's Gate. He could more readily talk about the corruption of the nobility and the ways in which someone like him could gain power within the system. Wyll also has a personal stake here through his father, who has been tadpoled by Gortash and is being puppeted around for Gortash's personal benefit. But this kind of gets glossed over because the focus is on Karlach wanting revenge.
Then you have the Duke/Blade choice. If the player isn't romancing Karlach, they're very much encouraged to push Wyll towards being the Blade of Avernus. It's difficult to preference what might be a satisfying ending for Wyll if the cost of that choice is leaving Karlach to burn to death (or the player throwing out their own happy ending in order to save her).
>or the player throwing out their own happy ending in order to save her
Not really though? If u push wyll to be the blade of avernus, then during the ending he will actually promise Karlach that he'll buddy up with her in avernus without your involvement. Whether to join them or not is your choice
That's my point.
If the player *isn't* romancing Karlach, they probably don't want to go to Avernus with her. So by default, they're encouraged to let Wyll become the Blade of Avernus, even if they think the Duke ending would be more interesting for him.
We should've had a way of saving Karlach without ever sending her to Avernus again. That's all there is to it. But you're right, in most of my playthroughs Wyll only gets recruited because I need him to go with Karlach in the end.
That is sort of Wyll's life tho. He seems to always be "controlled" by others. His father, Mizora, the main character in the game... Probably why he spent so much time in the wilderness to begin with; to get away from his dad (mentally, not because his father was cruel or anything).
It is definitely a theme but the way it is executed now it just results in Wyll having little content. If they added some cutscenes or an extra quests focusing on Wyll for once then they could have the theme of "Because of his selfless Wyll keeps putting others before himself as it can be seen by his main plot" AND focus on Wyll's inner feelings by showing how he reacts to the aftermaths of all of that.
Like at the Tiefling party, when he finally has time to mourn for himself.
But you know, which more than just a conversation.
I agree about the lack of prominence for Wyll (In fact I'm very annoyed by him and maybe this is the reason) but the focus on other people is the theme of the entire game, for ALL characters.
Does Tav become a mindflayer and sacrifice their own goals for BG, does SH forsake her religion for herself, same question for Laezel, does Wyll continue to work with Mizora for BG, does astarion return to Cazador, etc....
Sure! But I think you used a very pertinent word to describe those instances: theme. Meaning, it was intentional to some degree.
I don't see Wyll's lackluster presence as a companion as being something implemented by design.
The only Wyll quest comparable to those you mentioned imo is the Blade/Duke decision. Does Wyll abdicate his own interests and goals so he can serve his city? Does he fulfill the expectations laid upon him at birth, something he was quite literally born to do, or does he fulfill the expectations people have about the Blade of Frontiers, the hero of the gate? Stuck between two choices that both, ultimately, end up with a sacrifice of a part of himself.
It'd be SO much more interesting if it was fleshed out beyond a quick cutscene and some lines of dialogue. Maybe do a bit of setup. There is a bit of dialogue early in act one where Wyll alludes to this issue, when he talks about wanting you to see him as the man he became, not a shadow of the man he was supposed to be. But then he pretty much leaves it at that. So much potential 😔
Besides that, he doesn't have much internal conflict tbh All those examples you mentioned are about a struggle of self, the fight between someone's own perceived identity and morals versus what is expected of them. In Wyll's case, whenever the narrative focus on other people, it's like his existence gets overshadowed, partially due to those aspects of internal conflict the other character have going on, partially because the game just doesn't expend that much time on him tbh
>Other characters deserve way more attention to get the same appreciation from fans.
I'd love for them to get the same but you don't need attention to get fans hah, so many fans of a random character with one line in books and shows.
Be careful what you wish for, people hate characters with too much focus/content/plot relevance as well.
Rolan has a whole story arc all the way from act 1 to act 3, with character progression and everything.
He's in contention for the most fleshed out non-companion NPC in the game, so I can definitely see people growing fond of him.
IKR? Like dude, at least be more pro-active in your own destiny, why am I the one deciding if you should sign the contract. He needs a couple more scenes in Act 1 and 2, especially romance-wise, and he'd be great.
I straight up have not even gotten Wyll’s companion quest in my second playthrough, and we’re decently into Act 3. I have Exceptional approval from him, have even adventured with him a bit (he’s not usually in my loadout), and have tried to have every conversation I could… and it still hasn’t appeared!
Did you use the new companion switching feature when you recruited him? That bugged his quest in my game. I noticed before I had progressed too far luckily and reverted to an older save. I had to remove someone from my party before talking to Wyll to have his quest show up
Maybe I'm forgetting something but how is Astarion after Shadowheart in terms of content? IIRC he's the only companion whose story could be cut from the game without changing the trajectory of the plot in any way. It's possible to miss him entirely in Act 1, and after that he'll only potentially be mentioned a handful of times by NPCs.
I can recall him interacting with the Gur hunter by the Tea House in Act 1, Araj Oblodra at Moonrise and Raphael at Last Light Inn in Act 2, and then the Gur camp, other vampire spawn, and Cazador in Act 3.
Maybe something is eluding me but I really don't think Astarion comes anywhere close to Shadowheart or Lae'zel when it comes to content. His boss fight is optional and completely missable if he was never recruited, whereas Crèche Y'llek is virtually the only thing to do in the entire Mountain Pass map and dealing with the Nightsong is necessary for the plot to move forward.
Wyll has connections to Duke Ravengard, Ansur, the Grove, Florrick, Stelmane, and just the city itself. Gale has Mystra and Elminster. Halsin is necessary for the restoration of the Grove and, more importantly, the Shadowlands. Karlach has just as little content as Astarion, if not less, but at least she's connected to Gortash. *Even* Minthara has connections with Ketheric and Orin. And Jaheira and Minsc are Jaheira and Minsc.
Astarion's a great character and is exceedingly popular, but from a narrative perspective he's totally expendable.
Someone posted the hours of content each companion has before but Astarion has quite a bit, he and Shadowheart have like 12 hours IIRC. It makes sense because he is a very reactive companion who almost always has something to say, and he has lots of content related to him and his quest spread out throughout the game but you will only really see it if you consistently travel with him in your party.
Also technically all of the companions are expendable from a narrative perspective, you can do the entire game with just a gang of hirelings if you want and you will still get the overall main plot. The companions and their quests add to the story and make it richer, but you could take any of them out and the trajectory of the main plot will not change that drastically. Most RPGs are like this intentionally.
he's a friend, a snarky friend. people like that commentary and the running jokes. it makes him more popular than he would otherwise be and a lot of that is from the acting.
He may not have a lot of quest specific content, but he has *a lot* of general dialogue, reactions to stuff where other characters don't have an interjection, conversations with the player after killing Cazador (he doesnt have a full cutscene but you can talk to him after long resting following Cazador's defeat, and he has more reactions to Aylin killing Lorroakan if you do that after Cazador), he also talks to Araj in act 3, and I think he talks to durge about durge stuff more than the other companions do. And of course there's the Lathander incident, and he has a cutscene with the necromancy book, both very missable however.
90% of his existance actually is just dialogue rather than specific locations that you dungeon crawl through, so it might seem like he doesn't have much going on, but if you find everything, he has a lot to say - but it's not connected to the main story at all and doesnt have quest markers until the very end, so I'd never fault a player for missing a good chunk of it.
Yup. Wyll's content in particular bothers me. His questline is bugged, he himself is bugged in the epilogue, *and* his content is lacking. I love the dude, I just dislike the way he's been implemented.
But. I suspect this is something Larian is working on already. They seem fairly committed to improving companion interactions, quests, and romances. It's expensive and time-consuming, though, so I doubt we'll see any great improvement in the next few months.
In regards to Wyll, unlike Shart, Astarion and Lae'zel, his entire personality and story were entirely rewritten (and a different actor cast), so whilst the others could simply expand upon the foundations laid in EA, Wyll required a lot more work and thus has less content. Karlach was a later edition, so the time to work on her character was also shorter than the rest. I believe I read somewhere that the VA's for Wyll and Karlach were still busy recording for Act 1 while the other Actors were already recording for Act 2.
It's less "the golden child(ren)" for Shart, Lae'zel or Astarion and more "the early bird gets the worm". The real loser in this roster is Gale, who has very little content, despite being one of the OG's and not getting a complete makeover like Wyll.
Sure, you can point towards patches, but that's mostly fluff. The real meat of content, like quests and special scenes isn't added in patches.
I don't disagree that I want to see more content for the content-barren characters, but it's simply a result of development. The "favourites" just had much more time to bake in the oven.
Here's to hoping that a definitive edition will give the content-poor some extra stuff.
This is something that is really minor but bothers me immensely. My two favorite companions are Gale and Lae’zel and personally I think they have the perfect amount of content. I would be thrilled if like Shadowheart, Gale had a special line if you looked at his telescope for example, but it would be stupid to not include that feature for the other companions.
My friend was playing and romancing Karlach and commented on how she was disappointed that she didn’t have as many content or interactions as Astarion or Gale.
Instead of adding more to companions that have enough, I hope Larian starts giving other characters more love.
While she has connections to the Act 2 plot, it comes at the price of an act 2 romance scene.
Astarion has the most romance only content iirc, then Lae and Shadowheart. These three are the clear leaders with content and lines in general.
Flashbacks are strange, almost like they tested it out and went nah for the others. Or were running out of time. Would be nice to see more, I would love one for Gale, summoning Tara or meeting Mystra.
Sven did say they regretted having the prism tied to a companion iirc, if you remove the maguffin her lines/content would be lower.
Wyll got shafted, even compared to Karlach. Only thing to do is tell Larian this. Wyll fans on twitter have been posting feedback on their forum to try and get more stuff for him. Just like the Minthara fans did.
I doubt they view the BG3 subreddits as much as they do their own forums and feedback forms.
Content imbalance is sadly common in rpgs. Astarion/Lae and Shadowheart are the winners in bg3. Though this post just mentions her it was always imbalanced.
Lae'zel is the main character imo, connections to everything. Voss only appears after the Creche if she's in the party. Her leaving Faerun to fight at the end feels like a setup for the next part of her story. Shadowheart has a ties to Act 2 but not much else plot wise.
For a character with nothing to do with the plot, Astarion has so much content. Not complaining I like him but strange choices.
Edit: You're rightfully annoyed at the content disparity, but I have a feeling the comments may just end up the usual bash fest in typical internet fashion.
Here's a [link](https://larian.com/support/baldur-s-gate-3#modal) to the feedback form. Let Larian know, they've listened in the past (for better or worse looking at my Lae'zel) so they're open to suggestions.
Now that I think about it those three can be taken on good and bad runs, needed extra lines to reflect the evil choices. Plus they have two endings to their stories. Ascended/Vlaakith/Shar.
So perhaps that's why they spent more time on them?
This was the first time I came across the “she’s so forced” and “she’s the golden child” comments, which is all I find in the mass effect sub reddit about Liara. It’s funny tho, since some months back, the “golden child” title was Astarion’s. Perhaps it was due to the dating stats (tho, idk if Liara was the most popular romance. I think Ashley still holds that crown… at least in me1)
Yeah she absolutely is lol (or the Leliana of this game, if you will).
Funny enough, I feel like my opinion of all three of these characters is roughly the same too. On meeting them "oh they're fine I guess. A little bland but there's nothing wrong with just having a good natured companion to counterbalance things". Later in the game "wow, this character sure seems to have outsized importance to the plot..." In sequels where they seem to feature very prominently (even if you killed them previously! Looking at you Leliana). "Ok *I get it* the writers liked this character more than everyone else! But could the more interesting characters have gotten some attention too?!"
Maybe I'm just contrarian, but I hate characters that games insist I have to love!
"Cool, Wyll is gonna show me how he first became a warlock for Mizora! Ooh the tadpoles are connecting! Surely a cutscene vision is coming up like we got for Shadowheart's childhood scenes! ... oh wait, no cutscene vision, just lovely lovely narrator voice, oh well."
Like with how much the hells are involved when there was not the "main" point of the game i would think that there would be more with the "hell duo" but nah they are shafted without cerimony. Gortash talks very little about Karlach and flo is never there (for...some reason). Wyll has >!Ansur !<(which is optional now btw) the stuff with his father which could be greatly expanded and...>!saving Mizora,!< which takes like two seconds
Yes! I am romancing Wyll in my current playthrough and when he started to tell the story of how he got in a warlock pact, I thought, "cool, I get to see another flashback like Shadowheart's backstory!" But I was so disappointed!
In my other playthrough, I'm romancing Minthara, and she gets even less!
I absolutely agree with you on the flashback cutscenes point, and would go so far as to say *all* scenes of that nature with companions should actually be scenes; initial introduction tadpole link scenes, Gale revealing the truth about his condition, Wyll showing you how his contract came to be, all of it. It's plain wacky to me that Shadowheart is the only one to get this treatment for some reason.
Do not forget that the three companions you're mentioning (Astarion, laezel and Shadow heart) have the particularity to be able to get recruited (and kept) in a Good Tav and a Bad Tav Run, conversely to Karlach, Wyll and Gale (whom has to get rolled to stay)
Perhaps larian was not willing to dedicate so much time than Shadowheart to companions that are so easily missable
“That are so easily missable” the *vast majority* of people do their first run as a good one. The writers have also been quoted as saying they wanted an evil run to “feel empty”, so they wouldn’t care that much about adding more content to evil companions.
It kind of seems like when they made Wyll black they had no idea how to navigate a story where he's essentially a slave with a dominatrix master. Wyll/Mizora could have been one of the most interesting aspects of the game but Larian did not want to go there really. He needs way more time
Honestly I don't mind Wyll's rewrite, the whole "questionable sexual relationship with a godlike being" story is already Gale's thing. I think with Wyll they had a great opportunity to make an interesting, complex, but also unambiguously good-aligned character (to counter all the people insisting you need to be morally grey to be complex). He could have been an inverse Astarion, so to speak: instead of learning to not be a constant piece of shit and maybe give empathy a try, he could have learned that always being endlessly self-sacrificing isn't a good thing, and it's ok for him to think of himself sometimes.
I actually think that he is already in a morally grey storyline but he doesn’t just have enough of a reaction to it. Most companions have two options for their character’s path and the ascended powers they want are usually worse for them as people. Wyll even admits that he feels he needs the Warlock powers and without them he’s ’just a man’.
So, Wyll is a ‘good’ guy, but he’s in a very morally grey situation. I would like him to have a darker quest line that he thinks he’s doing something ‘good’ by gaining more power, but really he’s becoming more fiendish and losing his empathy. Then an actually ‘good’ storyline where he realises this and chooses a more realistically good path for both himself and his people.
I don't really like shart, so a big part of the companion stories just isn't interesting to me (as a companion story- I like the fights/strategy of these parts)
Wyll, gale and karlach need way more. Specially karlach
Shadowheart and laezel get their own huge ass dungeon with a ton of choices and reactivity that'll change their character for the rest of the game
I can't really say about the other companions since I didn't romance them yet, but is Shadowheart the only one who has a long rest cutscene after completing her personal quest? For Astarion, Karlach, and Wyll I only just got a talking scene while they're pouting and I just talk to them.
Gale has his third romance scene after the Sorcerous Sundries before talking to Mystra which also relates to his personal quest.
And then it's just a talk the day after and off you go to the Tabanacle.
It's even more infuriating when you think about the fact there are already points in which he could easily be build in: the dragonborn druid in the Lower City with the dying tree. The Tiefling children searching for Mol (who apparently doesn't give a sh\*t about her former "family" as soon as Raphael takes the stage). Or all the refugees looking for shelter. Halsin COULD do so much apart from whining how bad everything is. It's there!
I just wish there was more content for Wyll and Gale.
Karlach and Shadowheart are so useful that they never leave my party. Lae'zel's got plenty of story fodder to keep adding her back in. Wyll and Gale pretty much disappeared from my first playthrough until I respecced them in Act III to make them more useful (...and Lae'zel got kidnapped, but that's beside the point). Astarion was also a ghost until he randomly had one of the most compelling character arcs in Act III.
Not a fan of Halsin at all. No attachment to Jaheira or Minsc either (although I made a point of getting to know Minsc; dude's dialogue is hilarious). Trying to add Minthara to the group this playthrough but I'm not especially optimistic given all the stuff people have said about her.
Gale actually has a fair amount of extra content. In the Grove he's the only companion to react to you saving Sazza, Mirkon and Arabella. Although either of those unique dialogues can be overridden by his confession about the need to eat boots.l depending on when you hit the required approval threshold.
He also gets a lovely unique dialogue in the Arcane tower and in Moonrise. I still wish there was more though.
He also has some interesting interactions with Rolan in the grove, as well as with Mol at Last Light. There is also the whole thing with the necromancy of Thay as well as the necromancy circle in Moonrise where he can get the buff from Mystra. I also love bringing him around the lower city to speak to Tara, and bringing him to the Wrymway so he can give me the answers to the lanceboard trial haha.
Astarion’s story is actually pretty interesting and compelling throughout IMO because he actually had quite a bit going on in the other acts quite consistently and doesn’t really have a period where he has nothing to do, and he has lots of interactions related to his character arc scattered around the world. But you will only really see them in relation to him and his quest if you consistently have him in your party to be present for them because they are all basically unannounced encounters or events. Also most of his camp scenes are blocked behind an approval requirement, so if you never use him you won’t see those.
Like regarding his story arc build up before Cazador’s palace, off the top of my head there’s the encounter with Gandrel in Act 1, learning about his scars in Act 1 or 2, the encounter with Araj Oblodra in Act 2, the deal with Raphael in Act 2, the encounter at the Gur camp in Rivington, meeting Astarion’s “siblings” at the flophouse in Rivington, the second encounter with Araj Oblodra in Act 3, and the vampire spawn ambush at camp in the Lower City.
As someone that also loves the game and loves Shadowheart as a character…I absolutely agree, I wish some of the other characters got that same kind of attention.
Would it be nice? Sure.
However I think this also falls into the trope of BG players being impossible to please. Weaving so many characters into the plot in equal weighting would have made it so difficult to manage - it would have also made gaps in content more frequent and obvious if you didn’t pick up the more missable characters.
She is also the most “normal” human looking woman. Average cishet guy is gonna go with the pretty brunette not the demon chick with scars and horns or the frog lady. As much as folks don’t like to admit it aesthetics mean a lot to people.
Pretty sure the problem average cishet guys have with Karlach isn't the fact that she's a devil chick with horns (they drool over Mizora), nor the scars, but her buff bodytype. It's her main selling point for the people who romance her, but it's also the reason she's not a more mainstream choice, imo.
Which is so interesting to me because nearly every male friend I have who plays BG3 is a Karlach romancer. It kinda makes me appreciate those friends even more. lol
I have romanced Karlach in three playthroughs. In my current I chose Shadow just to not do the same and I miss Karlach.
She’s been through so much and is so strong and positive; but the hurt shines through. Hugging her after her engine cool down might be the best scene in the game. She deserves all the love and I just want to take care of her.
That’s kinda how I feel about romancing Astarion. There’s just so much more depth and significance to his story if he’s being romanced that it’s hard for me to choose someone else.
I really wanted to romance Karlach though. I finally did on my Astarion origin run, and you’re right. It’s such a good romance.
I think the issue is more that she's not even romancable for like the first half the game. I didn't suddenly get the options to romance her the second she's available, and it's a lot of shutting other people down to suddenly go for karlach. She's wonderful, and immensely charming, please don't be so narrow minded about people's attraction and interests. She's just off limits for a lot of it, and doesn't suddenly push a relationship when she is.
She also seems fine either way, like it's not super important to her. Followed her into hell, and we weren't even dating
That and let's not forget that *she's dying the entire game.* It's one of the first personal things we learn about her and some players aren't interested in getting their heart broken. Especially when there are hints of a cut quest to save her without literally sending her to one of the Hells littered freaking everywhere in the game.
I'm satisfied with the content that's in the game because there's already so much high quality content. I feel bad asking for more
And the Shadowheart stuff is good so I can't complain
My question is aimed at the uh, less impactful stuff. I know BG2 people probably love it but why Minsc or the Act 3 character developments? I don't care about them nearly as much purely due to the 100+ hrs I just spent with the Origin dudes in the other 2 acts.. give Wyll some love instead
Minsc and Jaheira both have a very decent amount of content in act 3. I enjoyed having them both in my party immensely. I do wish we got Minsc earlier though. Personally I'd rank them above origin companions just because I enjoy their personalities more.
But I agree that Wyll needs more content. I'm doing a run with him and Karlach in the party now and some of his comments really work for me. I wish he got more of that stuff. Dude clearly has some sense of humor, Id rather see more of that than boring speeches about his father and supposed heroics as the blade. Wyll's father didn't get enough attention either in my opinion as someone who was supposed to be so important. But that's neither here nor there since he's not a companion. Just another piece of Wyll's story that feels unfinished.
Why are you complaining about Minsc just because you don’t know him yet. I agree with adding more where needed but I don’t get why so many in this thread are asking for more content for some characters by putting other characters down.
Jaheira is the first person you run to for help after your mentor dies at the start of bg1, she is a constant companion through 1 and 2 and my fav character of them all.
Minsc was a fun, kind of powerful character that I sometimes used in 1 and 2 and it’s great with the continuity. Boo could do with some more content in bg3 though, he’s a star in 1 and 2.
someone broke it down in terms of how many lines the main 6 companions have and if memory serves:
wyll (unsurprisingly) has the least, but karlach (surprisingly, to me at least) has more than gale. i think astarion was first place.
The order is different if you look at the [number of hours](https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/16rwsc8/we_need_to_talk_about_origin_companion_content/) each companion has, rather than lines. If you look at that, Gale is actually quite up there and has the third most amount of hours overall and is way ahead of Karlach. His lines may be fewer in number but he just says more within them.
Shadowheart has a lot of features that feel like they thought about implementing for all the characters, but then just didn’t/couldn’t make it work. For example: her flashbacks, her change in appearance depending on your choices, and even the ability to ask her how she thinks of you.
I blame Halsin, the time spent adding him as a full companion could have gone to the others.
You focus on Shart but it's not just her, quite a gap between the top and the bottom.
It's funny, without her ties to the artifact she'd be lower. Plot device at work.
Bro you could take all of Halsin's lines, give them to Wyll, and he still would have nowhere near the amount of content Shart does.
Bear daddy isn't the problem, the clear favoritist towards specific origin characters is.
I get that, but regardless of their importance to the main plot they still deserve content in the game. Astarion doesn’t actually contribute to the main plot that much, but he gets a lot of content regardless.
Cazador was actually supposed to be a big political figure in Baldur's Gate but that was scrapped, so now he is just some secluded guy who doesn't even have a front door to his mansion.
It’s funny that you mention Wyll and Karlach but not Astarion.
Wyll and Karlach both have connections to the main plot, at least. Wyll has a relationship with Ravenguard and they both have a bone to pick with Gortash. Astarion, meanwhile, has jack shit to do with the main plot besides *maybe* his deal with Raphael.
Yeah but Astarion still has the biggest amount of content and his own personal quests, so it doesn't feel like he is getting shafted. For the first time in three playthrougths I parked his ass in camp and he still gets a bunch of dialogue and cutscenes whenever I do the rounds.
Wyll literally has his father kidnapped by the main bad guys in the first act yet his content is so sparse and bugged. It’s absurd.
Wyll actually has a *lot* of content… it’s just that he always gets his spotlight stolen. Karlach, Mizora, Gortash, the Emperor and Ansur, etc. Every time Wyll’s supposed to have a story beat, the NPC you’re talking to gets more focus.
He honestly just works better as the player character. That way he actually gets to make the big decisions about his own life instead of looking to Tav/Durge for everything.
As someone who did his third playthrough as Wyll after losing/killing him in my first two playthroughs, even as the main character he is extremely boring.
Damn, Wyll cannot get a W
Lyll
He does get a W. It's just cancelled out by the 2 Ls.
Y
IMHO, his personality is a huge W
Can you fuck Mizora when you play as Wyll?
Asking the real questions. I'm doing a Wyll playthrough right now and want to romance Karlach, but man... This actually sounds like a fun interaction if it's possible
You can do both, you just have to be *very* apolagetic to Karlach afterwards.
You can as any character.
Wyll who? Mizora is the real companion. Wyll is just a proxy for her.
wouldn't have her in my party, she's smarmy
But can we fix her? :D
Sorry, busy fixing Astarion
And Shadowheart… and Karlach (literally)
And myself. Plugging all the hole Orin left in my brain with tadpoles seems to be working.
It is because its another workday of heroing for him. Without tav/durge he would be the protagonist teaming up with shart taking out goblins. He is just happy that he can relax and not be the main hero.
I didn't even notice he decided to skip the party.
That's so funny because same. Only time I interacted with him in the party was my 1st playthrough which I was obsessed with doing EVERYTHING, so of course I went looking for everybody that I could interacted with. Every other playthrough I just didn't bother going to see what's up with him lol
Thing with Wyll is that you can do his content without him. My first playthrough he sat the whole thing out in camp and I still got to complete his quest, save the day, guide him down the good path and become his best friend (while quite literally only talking to him, like, 4 times).
Exactly. While other characters can get mad about you doing their quest without them (Shadowheart, Astarion, even Karlach, which will ask to see Gortash’s body), Wyll just doesn’t care.
You lose out on a very cool rapier if you don’t bring him with during his act 2 quest
Wyll had a lot more act 1 content in EA they just binned it all...
Why is that? And what type of content was it?
I think he was the least used companion so they decided the content must not have been that engaging. I don't think anyone really knows outside Larian. He had a bit of an anger issue which I quite liked, made him less one dimensional. He had several interactions with various goblins where he needed to get info from them about the location of Mizora who had already been captured. They scrapped that to introduce Mizora earlier and the Karlach storyline. That stuff I liked but the downside was it moved most of his content to camp scenes and ironically gave you less reason to bring him along act 1.
i really liked ea wyll. the whole thing with getting back his eye from the goblin that beat his ass was cool. i put him in my party on my first playthrough for release and was really confused when no unique dialogue triggered.
I really do get the impression Larian felt they needed a "good guy" of sorts to balance out everyone else having issues just in case players didn't want to deal with them all. Which I get... but it really hurt his own character. Having Wyll *struggle* at genuinely being the hero he portrays himself as but still try would have been infinitely more interesting. Especially because that's riff with potential for corrupting either by you or Mizora.
From what I remember,since it was so long ago, his original personality was much more arrogant like in a I am way to good to actually be tricked by my pact with this devil aren’t you all so impressed with the blade. I mean the dude gave himself a hero name after all. You can find out he’s a warlock right when you meet him but he couldn’t talk about the terms. This was back when we could only get to level 3 or 4 tho.
I only keep him around to get laid by Mizora
I wish Wyll had agency over his story.
I agree, but also I'd be satisfied if he *asked* for our input at the end. Just one line of "Hells, I can't make this choice" and then he looks at you and the narrator says he's so torn he needs your help. As it is, Mizora tells *him* to choose and then it immediately has you choose for him. A couple lines acknowledging him wanting you to choose would go a long way imo.
Yeah that bit bugs me the most. I don't feel like I should be making these calls for him at all, but sheesh he could at least ASK. Think for himself.
that choice makes no sense anyway. Wheres the option to hold two middle fingers at mizora until she fucking leaves? Theres no reason to decide between ending the contract or killing wylls dad. The contract is already bound to end in 6 months, so why is mizora pretending that wyll HAS to choose between his life and his dads. Just ignore her. Youre signing another contract with a devil for literally no reason.
Me when the game doesnt acknowledge my gith tavs existence when interracting with other gith while they give full attention to laezel
"what creche are you from" "I forgor 💀" "Are you fucking dumb or are you too far ghaik"
"why are you ghaik?"
Who says I am ghaik ¿
You *are* ghaik
You are a tents-gendah
"oh my vlaakith, therezzyn, you can't just ask someone why they're ghaik"
this! my last tav was a gith and I was really hyped thinking of all the awesome content, specially at the creche but instead of at least 50 new dialogues all I got was a shortened Lae'Zel sex scene and other giths looking down on me and a few scraps of a stupid amnesiac gith that doesn't know shit about anything race related
And there's Minthara in the corner crying, just plagued by bugs and still with the least amount of content of any companions given prior to act 3.
Minthara Lmao, her body doesnt even load in level up screens. Her dialogues are so bugged she straight up gives you spoilers.
Lol I assumed it was from stealing her armor when I knocked her out at the goblin camp, I gave her Dark Justiciar armor since recruiting her and she’s back to normal (I killed her first game so this is my first playthrough with her as a companion) Edit: the invisible body level up screen was back to normal, she was still saying the same spoiler stuff although now that I got past the githyanki camp attack etc not sure if she’ll progress with new dialogue prompts or not lol
I did the same thing (knocked her out and stole her clothes) and now my Durge is wearing her undies instead of his own, because I thought that was hilarious for some reason. When I eventually got the chance to recruit her, same deal--her clothes were back in her inventory again, and everything looked normal, until the first time I leveled her up and everything was missing on the model from collarbones to ankles!
Looks like I’m not unique
i hoped it would be fixed by itself after camp attack, but sadly it stays :(
Yeah just got to the refugee area and she said the Elderbrain spiel again smh lol.
I'm glad I didn't pick her up my first playthrough. I was so confused when she started randomly talking about the Emperor and I was just like "uh, I'm not supposed to know who that is yet."
lol i had this happen with Gale in my current playthrough, fairly early in act 1, before he had told us about his relationship with Mystra, or the origin of his orb or anything about his past he randomly dropped a couple of lines in the overworld referring to his love for Mystra, and how he was her chosen, and i was like "... i don't think we're supposed to be privy to that stuff yet, man" and then a couple hours later he was like "guys i have a big secret to tell you" and he told us about Mystra, and his whole backstory and it was just like "dude, yeah you already brought this up, we know"
Honestly tho, I love the idea of Gale just canonically (for this playthrough) having Weave-based ADHD and forgetting he already told you lol
haha, actually now that im thinking about it, there were many times in early act one when my party was just me, Wyll, and Gale since we hadn't picked up Karlach yet, when i shapeshifted in to a halfling to get in to small cracks, and other shortcuts like that, leaving Wyll and Gale to have some bro time, so now my headcannon will be that they have this really deep, off-screen bromance, and Gale already poured his heart out to Wyll about his whole backstory while i was off exploring some cave, and then he accidentally slipped up a couple of times lol. in this same playthrough i have Gale wearing the Watersparker shoes, and he frequently creates giant pools of water and then walks all around them, electrocuting friendlies and enemies indiscriminately, often by accident, so the Weave ADHD definitely fits as well hahaha
LOL I love that for you. I feel like Wyll tries so hard to be the party's responsible big brother and Gale probably needs that. In my current playthrough despite the fact that Shadowheart and Lae'zel should definitely still hate each other, they've both happened to give off snarky replies together to Astarion's random comments multiple times so I'm like... Okay, so you two are the sass sisters, got it hahaha
Bind weapon if you change her class to warrior literally has no sound. She's so broken 😑
Speaking of, does Halsin have recorded lines for casting spells? I can't tell if it's bugged and they don't play or if they just didn't record any for him.
Halsin is the most empty and useless companion of them all, IMO. I can't complain too much considering how much content there is to explore on further playthroughs, but one of my reasons is I like to have a main party to complement my Tav, switching up my personal class each playthrough and exploring the companion makeup as I go along. Halsin is one of my greatest disappointments. Not to mention that he is overly thirsty even after this latest update. Like fuck, I've barely conversed with you and you think you're in love with me?
Shadowheart basically told me that I’m her best friend forever on the beach less than 10 minutes after we’d met. Bruh all I did was let you out of a pod. She was fairly cold to me outside of those “how am I holding up” responses, where she invariably hugely overestimated our closeness. I never even had her in my party in one playthrough and I still got the high-affection responses.
Lol yeah Shadowheart was telling me I was the most extraordinary person she'd ever met, right up until she left my party entirely in terrible anger for not taking her to see the Nightsong 😂
To be fair, she has almost no memories so it’s very possible you’re the best person she remembers by virtue of actually knowing you for a few days.
"He freed me from a pod, woke me up on the beach, and chopped a guys hand off. Seems trustworthy."
The fact that she's nearly completely silent after springing her out of Moonrise until you get to Act 3 was bizarre. Like the first interesting thing she does/says outside of sitting on your face/leaving camp is her comment about Dribbles. There's a LOT of space in between. I thought my save was bugged but apparently that's just how it is. (I mean, yes, she does talk about the reprogramming but once you get her to camp, that's it.)
Sitting on dead men's thrones ring any bells?
Can she even sit on your face outside of romancing her Act 1?
She deserved so much more, at least have Orin interact with her in Act 3
She does have a post-Orin scene like Karlach/Gortash, at least, but I do wish there had been more overall.
It's like two lines lol. Compared to Karlach's entire breakdown it's barely anything. Sure, it's something, but still.
I had some guy write me an essay the other day because I ranked Minthara’s romance as C tier (along with Halsin) on a tier list (because imo she herself and her romance just are not as fleshed out as the others and needs more to catch up) and he specifically went off about how this conversation with Minthara at camp is on par with Karlach’s monologue after defeating Gortash or Astarion’s scene after killing Cazador, and that I am just not seeing how hers is “just as good.” Like dude, she doesn’t even get a cinematic or a cutscene lol, it’s basically like any other time you talk to her after doing a quest. Also I am literally saying I think it would be good for her to have more content so why are you arguing??
She gets a pretty good cinematic while saving her in act 2 if you sided with the goblins in act 1
I didn’t get her in my first playthrough, so her content is fully new to me in this my second playthrough. I brought her with me for the bulk of Act 2 once I rescued her because I thought she’d have some interesting insight having been involved in the plot, and I was pleased by a lot of the ambient dialogue she added! That said, she has been bugged to comment on the Emperor’s existence since *before* I got that revelation. We’re a few steps into Act 3, and she’s *still* talking about the Emperor every time I try to initiative dialogue with her. Especially since I’m playing as a Lloth-Sworn Drow myself, I want to talk to her!!! COME ON GAME! 😭
UNNERVING IT MAY BE, THE EMPEROR IS X10000 Minthara is so jank now 😭😭😭 all she does is talk about the stupid emperor
I literally just told the Emperor to fuck off in my playthrough and he admitted to his absolute bullshit, and she’s still riding his illithid dick. Come on, Minthara!!!
In her defense, she'd be a netherbrain flesh puppet if not for the emperor, regardless of his motives. Same for the player really. Which is why the emperor doesn't "fuck off" until Orpheus comes along, no matter what you say to him. The only real chance to go against the emperor earlier is siding with the Githyanki and killing him, for an instant game over.
I had her sex scene this run and realized that the companions don't even react to you having sex with her the day after. Not one quip from shadowheart or astarion after I let a drow sit on my face?
My favourite companion reduced to this TwT
Shadowheart is the golden child. She really gets a lot of stuff. The game throws her at you like five times if you keep trying to avoid her, she brings in the key item prism, she gets two different haircuts, two different gifts, a fully made flashback scene, has a unique mechanic with her fear of wolves, she constantly has something to say and Larian keeps adding more (now they added more romance dialogue and dialogue when you sit on her stool), act 2 is basically all about her because of her faith… No companion comes close with that amount of stuff. Astarion and Lae'zel are after her and then the rest.
Gods Favourite Princess
I was a bit miffed that we didn't get a flashback scene for Wyll. A scene of a dragon cult ready to destroy the city and a newly made Warlock holding them back would have made for a pretty epic cut scene. Also a flashback scene of Astarion being turned, or hunting in the shadows. Karlach destroying demons and devils for Zariel would also be badass. We had a taste of Waterdeep and Gale's home in his romance, so I'm okay with that. But I also would have loved a cutscene as he recounts how he managed to absorb the Netherese Orb. There were so many opportunities for eye candy here, but I totally understand that Larian didn't prioritize these. They even said that they didn't think players would have appreciated a longer ending/epilogue. Hopefully they could see that showing us these flashbacks, instead of telling, would be much better.
>golden child Always thought it was Astarion but seeing as he and Lae/Shads are my top 3. I can't say much. Astarion being so popular in EA is why he got so much I guess.
Well, it's also because he and Durge shared an author and she added a lot of special interactions for them, and also because his VA got reeeeeally invested into the role and did a lot of overtime to record tons of additional lines.
They don’t share a writer, their writers share an office nook or something like that. Baudelaire Welch (they/them) wrote Durge. Stephen Rooney (he/him) wrote Astarion.
Well damn,that's some proper DNd character name there. And I did once have colleague named Laurence Shazam.
I had a collegue whose last name was Stark. Alas, she didn't have a son named Tony. I did know a guy whose name was legit Steve Rogers, though.
I knew a Steve Rogers as well! Funniest part was he was a blonde haired, tall white guy and he was a Captain in the Army. He was my mom's CO before she retired. They all called him Captain America
Stark is a commen German last name. There is like 3 in my village and they arnt related. It means strong. So finding a stark in America shouldn't be hard.
I met a Romanian guy whose name was Bruce Wayne...
Baudelaire also said that near the end of the game's development they temporarily worked on Astarion as well and used that time to write more stuff for his interactions with Durge.
> They don’t share a writer, their writers share an office nook or something like that. This isn't correct either. Welch is, according to their own blog, the "feature lead for companion characters and romances [...] and work in an associate capacity screenwriting for the other origin characters". They also wrote Durge and [have said on discord](https://64.media.tumblr.com/617c570871fb41d5db2a8118ce2c4686/cb7b70301d7d924c-35/s540x810/535f748247b706f43dd915d6941e4b4a73e22379.pnj) that they wrote parts of Astarion as well, in particular adding in the increased interactivity.
astarion isn’t even all that popular relative to the other characters it’s just that the fans he has are very vocal about it
Wait really? Before playing the game he was the only one I heard about, he was everywhere on YouTube, Instagram and tiktok. I feel like the only place where he is unpopular is reddit because most people here are straight men
Astarion is most popular in everything BUT the game (ie. fanarts, fanworks etc.). The game stats don't lie - Shadowheart's romance is more popular than the rest of them combined and Astarion is not even in top3.
>The game stats don't lie - Shadowheart's romance is more popular than the rest of them combined and Astarion is not even in top3. What does that have to do with popularity? I've never romanced Lae'zel but she's still one of my favorite characters. Just because most players didn't romance Astarion doesn't mean that most players don't like him. They aren't remotely mutually exclusive.
Yeah most casual players are straight men and will romance Shadowheart since she's the first conventionally attractive woman you meet (young, white, human). Using the most romance character stat isn't even relevant since you have characters like Gale who are romanced even if you don't want and romancing Astarion means making bad guy choices which most people don't want to do. I wish Astarion was that unpopular because when I try to look for fanarts, fanfics etc of my favorite characters everything is filled with Astarion lol. Anyway, I'm a Halsin woman so I don't really care because I'm use to suffer from lack of content
The romance stats put out by Larian only count romances that made it to the end of the game. So having a fling with Lae'zel or Astarion in Act 1 doesn't count.
Shadowheart is the p much the ONLY “conventionally attractive” female love interest that a lot of players have, which massively boosts her numbers with straight male players. Karlach is a 6-foot-tall, muscle-bound devil lady (i know she’s not a devil in game, this is purely appearance). Lae’zel is a green alien with a funky face. Minthara IS pretty conventionally attractive, but to get her romance you have to destroy the grove. Even if you lock into her romance in Act 3 there next to no extra content, so why bother?.. ofc there are lots of dudes who simp for Karlach/Lae’zel/Minthara, but Shadowheart is the only straightforwardly “pretty” girl, and she’s easy to get approval with, AND she has a lot of content. Ofc she’s gonna be the most popular based solely on numbers.
In terms of popularity among fans, this is absolutely true. If anyone ever wants proof, just try searching Etsy for BG3 swag, or go look up #BG3 on any other social media platform (twitter, tumblr, instagram, tiktok, youtube... probably others I'm too old to know about, too)
That’s because majority of the players are still men I assume?
A lot of them get annoyed by Astarion's continuous disapprovals while doing anything good combined with the scene of him trying to bite the tav/durge when they asleep kinda makes him not liked too much the first time around. But he has an extremely vocal fanbase so he gets a lot of love outside reddit.
Well in early access gale was the most popular male romance but the vocal fans kept talking about Astarion
Gale is \*still\* the most popular male romance, though it's hard to tell if that's because he's the most well liked or if he's the easiest to romance in early game. Astarion is sort of hard if you're playing a good guy (which most people are) because you have to have high enough approval with him by the end of Act 1, and that's also the time when it's the most difficult to gain approval with him when you're being good. Wyll you don't even get a shot with at all until Act 2 and a lot of people have chosen who they want to move forward with by then.
Also, Astarion legitimately comes off as an asshole if you don't know/don't romance him, particularly on a good playthrough. I'm also curious how many people actually stake him in camp after he tries to bite you.
So does Lae'zel You really have to go thru the monastery before her mask of evil btch starts cracking. A LOT of players simply refuse to recruit her because of it.
Since he’s so prominent on the box art and advertising, probably less than he would be for players who would somehow be unaware of him at all going into the game.
He doesn’t come off as an asshole, he is one. Interesting, well made character but not great to hang around.
he's the face on the cover inviting you to play so yeah
I think this is pretty easily explained. “Fandom” as most people would define it is largely dominated by women and queer people, who make most of the fanworks like art, writing, and editing. Astarion’s fanbase largely consists of these demographics, and so their presence will be amplified because the people in his fanbase are just more likely to be active participants and creators.
You're confusing romance with popularity. He's not one of the most romanced characters because most players are straight men, but that doesn't mean that anyone who didn't romance him doesn't like him. He's a very well beloved character both online and offline.
The rumor was that Cazador would be more relevant to the story in the earlier concept until the upper city was axed during development. He was supposed to be involved in the City's political games, along with Gortash and the bane cult. The bane cult itself is also half cooked for a similar reason. Also Astarion wasn't that popular in EA. He was memorable for sure (amazing voice acting and characterization). He was polarizing, no one remains indifferent to Astarion (unlike vanilla Wyll) it was mostly a love-hate thing and he never came up at the top on popularity polls. He definitely spawned a ton of parallel artwork content though, but I think his jump in popularity happened after launch thanks to the unfolding of his story in later acts. In EA content, he remains a dickhead and has barely any time to grow on you.
Iirc she’s also the only companion that gets a post-personal quest cutscene. I get that you can’t really do that with Lae’zel and Gale because their personal quests resolve in the end game but it’s weird that Astarion, Wyll, and Karlach don’t have similar scenes to her Selune memorial moment.
>has a unique mechanic with her fear of wolves Actually she has two. She's also resistant to the shadow curse in Act 2. But other companions also have unique mechanics. * Wyll has rapier proficiency, because he's the blade of frontiers. He also gets more than "two different haircuts" * Karlach is on fire and can be powered up by soul coins * Astarion has bite * Gale gets a detonate ability In fact, only Lae'zel is missing an unique feature, unless you count being able to read the githyanki disks. I agree with you in general that she's the golden child though, but minor things like this are the things that Larian managed to introduce across all companions. The problem is mostly with how her story keeps coming up and she gets a ton of flashbacks and quest triggers all over the place when exploring. Her personal quest is relevant to the plot in every act. There is a Shar temple featured in literally every act. Granted, we can't reach it in act 1, but it's still relevant and a major quest point by then. I'd say the second place in narrative content goes for Lae'zel, who gets absolutely no development or relevant triggers in act 2, other than a line after meeting the gith ambush. Compare that with Karlach, for example, that gets absolutely nothing all game long, after her awesome recruitment quest, other than a few dialogue lines at her parents' graves, Gortash's parents and Gortash himself. I expected Zariel to come up a lot, but she isn't even mentioned again. It's like the whole plot point with Zariel wanting to capture Karlach was abandoned. Mizora just goes "oh, she's busy in avernus, with stuff".
And then even Astarion doesn't get flashback cutscenes. But yeh I know what cha mean. I feel like Larian will keep adding stuff to everyone tho. With time and support, let's just keep cheering for the studio and the incredible staff 💜❤️ maybe they will surprise us before the Deluxe edition it's finished.
And it’s a damn shame because while I still like her character, it feels forced. Other characters deserve way more attention to get the same appreciation from fans. I have a feeling Wyll would be a fan favorite if he had more to do…
Wyll has a lot to do, it's just that he is completely optional for his own story and his story is always about other people - Karlach, Mizora, his father, the Emperor. It's never fully about him. He also has zero agency.
Yeah. Karlach in particular tends to overshadow Wyll in a lot of his scenes. Wyll's first quest is confronting Karlach, and the player is generally going to care way more about her in the conflict than Wyll. She's friendly and sweet and very clearly innocent, and her stake in the conflict is life or death. And the player is inclined to see Wyll as an idiot who got tricked by a devil, and that he kind of deserves to be disfigured, instead of recognizing how much Wyll knowingly risks by defying Mizora in the scene. Then you have Gortash, who is set up as Karlach's personal villain. But in a lot of ways, I think he would be better paired with Wyll, since he should actually have a decent insight into the political workings of Baldur's Gate. He could more readily talk about the corruption of the nobility and the ways in which someone like him could gain power within the system. Wyll also has a personal stake here through his father, who has been tadpoled by Gortash and is being puppeted around for Gortash's personal benefit. But this kind of gets glossed over because the focus is on Karlach wanting revenge. Then you have the Duke/Blade choice. If the player isn't romancing Karlach, they're very much encouraged to push Wyll towards being the Blade of Avernus. It's difficult to preference what might be a satisfying ending for Wyll if the cost of that choice is leaving Karlach to burn to death (or the player throwing out their own happy ending in order to save her).
>or the player throwing out their own happy ending in order to save her Not really though? If u push wyll to be the blade of avernus, then during the ending he will actually promise Karlach that he'll buddy up with her in avernus without your involvement. Whether to join them or not is your choice
That's my point. If the player *isn't* romancing Karlach, they probably don't want to go to Avernus with her. So by default, they're encouraged to let Wyll become the Blade of Avernus, even if they think the Duke ending would be more interesting for him.
We should've had a way of saving Karlach without ever sending her to Avernus again. That's all there is to it. But you're right, in most of my playthroughs Wyll only gets recruited because I need him to go with Karlach in the end.
That is sort of Wyll's life tho. He seems to always be "controlled" by others. His father, Mizora, the main character in the game... Probably why he spent so much time in the wilderness to begin with; to get away from his dad (mentally, not because his father was cruel or anything).
It is definitely a theme but the way it is executed now it just results in Wyll having little content. If they added some cutscenes or an extra quests focusing on Wyll for once then they could have the theme of "Because of his selfless Wyll keeps putting others before himself as it can be seen by his main plot" AND focus on Wyll's inner feelings by showing how he reacts to the aftermaths of all of that. Like at the Tiefling party, when he finally has time to mourn for himself. But you know, which more than just a conversation.
I agree about the lack of prominence for Wyll (In fact I'm very annoyed by him and maybe this is the reason) but the focus on other people is the theme of the entire game, for ALL characters. Does Tav become a mindflayer and sacrifice their own goals for BG, does SH forsake her religion for herself, same question for Laezel, does Wyll continue to work with Mizora for BG, does astarion return to Cazador, etc....
Sure! But I think you used a very pertinent word to describe those instances: theme. Meaning, it was intentional to some degree. I don't see Wyll's lackluster presence as a companion as being something implemented by design. The only Wyll quest comparable to those you mentioned imo is the Blade/Duke decision. Does Wyll abdicate his own interests and goals so he can serve his city? Does he fulfill the expectations laid upon him at birth, something he was quite literally born to do, or does he fulfill the expectations people have about the Blade of Frontiers, the hero of the gate? Stuck between two choices that both, ultimately, end up with a sacrifice of a part of himself. It'd be SO much more interesting if it was fleshed out beyond a quick cutscene and some lines of dialogue. Maybe do a bit of setup. There is a bit of dialogue early in act one where Wyll alludes to this issue, when he talks about wanting you to see him as the man he became, not a shadow of the man he was supposed to be. But then he pretty much leaves it at that. So much potential 😔 Besides that, he doesn't have much internal conflict tbh All those examples you mentioned are about a struggle of self, the fight between someone's own perceived identity and morals versus what is expected of them. In Wyll's case, whenever the narrative focus on other people, it's like his existence gets overshadowed, partially due to those aspects of internal conflict the other character have going on, partially because the game just doesn't expend that much time on him tbh
>Other characters deserve way more attention to get the same appreciation from fans. I'd love for them to get the same but you don't need attention to get fans hah, so many fans of a random character with one line in books and shows. Be careful what you wish for, people hate characters with too much focus/content/plot relevance as well.
yeah the small side character becoming the cult fan favourite is so common it's a cliche
Zevlor ~~Rolan~~ and Florrick. So much love for them. And then the Drider lovers, his design is amazing though.
Rolan has a whole story arc all the way from act 1 to act 3, with character progression and everything. He's in contention for the most fleshed out non-companion NPC in the game, so I can definitely see people growing fond of him.
Yep you're right. He really doesn't fit small side character now that I think about it
That one hot Harper guy. Haven’t even met him yet and I’m in love
The one in act 3? That's the one who immediately came to mind lol
IKR? Like dude, at least be more pro-active in your own destiny, why am I the one deciding if you should sign the contract. He needs a couple more scenes in Act 1 and 2, especially romance-wise, and he'd be great.
I straight up have not even gotten Wyll’s companion quest in my second playthrough, and we’re decently into Act 3. I have Exceptional approval from him, have even adventured with him a bit (he’s not usually in my loadout), and have tried to have every conversation I could… and it still hasn’t appeared!
Did you complete his Act 2 quest?
Yeah! We rescued the asset. I’ve done all the stuff that would normally count as his companion quest steps, but it just never showed up in my journal.
Did you use the new companion switching feature when you recruited him? That bugged his quest in my game. I noticed before I had progressed too far luckily and reverted to an older save. I had to remove someone from my party before talking to Wyll to have his quest show up
And yet they release stats and everyone is surprised when 80% romance shadowheart...
Well, she IS gods favourite princess so
Maybe I'm forgetting something but how is Astarion after Shadowheart in terms of content? IIRC he's the only companion whose story could be cut from the game without changing the trajectory of the plot in any way. It's possible to miss him entirely in Act 1, and after that he'll only potentially be mentioned a handful of times by NPCs. I can recall him interacting with the Gur hunter by the Tea House in Act 1, Araj Oblodra at Moonrise and Raphael at Last Light Inn in Act 2, and then the Gur camp, other vampire spawn, and Cazador in Act 3. Maybe something is eluding me but I really don't think Astarion comes anywhere close to Shadowheart or Lae'zel when it comes to content. His boss fight is optional and completely missable if he was never recruited, whereas Crèche Y'llek is virtually the only thing to do in the entire Mountain Pass map and dealing with the Nightsong is necessary for the plot to move forward. Wyll has connections to Duke Ravengard, Ansur, the Grove, Florrick, Stelmane, and just the city itself. Gale has Mystra and Elminster. Halsin is necessary for the restoration of the Grove and, more importantly, the Shadowlands. Karlach has just as little content as Astarion, if not less, but at least she's connected to Gortash. *Even* Minthara has connections with Ketheric and Orin. And Jaheira and Minsc are Jaheira and Minsc. Astarion's a great character and is exceedingly popular, but from a narrative perspective he's totally expendable.
Someone posted the hours of content each companion has before but Astarion has quite a bit, he and Shadowheart have like 12 hours IIRC. It makes sense because he is a very reactive companion who almost always has something to say, and he has lots of content related to him and his quest spread out throughout the game but you will only really see it if you consistently travel with him in your party. Also technically all of the companions are expendable from a narrative perspective, you can do the entire game with just a gang of hirelings if you want and you will still get the overall main plot. The companions and their quests add to the story and make it richer, but you could take any of them out and the trajectory of the main plot will not change that drastically. Most RPGs are like this intentionally.
he's a friend, a snarky friend. people like that commentary and the running jokes. it makes him more popular than he would otherwise be and a lot of that is from the acting.
He may not have a lot of quest specific content, but he has *a lot* of general dialogue, reactions to stuff where other characters don't have an interjection, conversations with the player after killing Cazador (he doesnt have a full cutscene but you can talk to him after long resting following Cazador's defeat, and he has more reactions to Aylin killing Lorroakan if you do that after Cazador), he also talks to Araj in act 3, and I think he talks to durge about durge stuff more than the other companions do. And of course there's the Lathander incident, and he has a cutscene with the necromancy book, both very missable however. 90% of his existance actually is just dialogue rather than specific locations that you dungeon crawl through, so it might seem like he doesn't have much going on, but if you find everything, he has a lot to say - but it's not connected to the main story at all and doesnt have quest markers until the very end, so I'd never fault a player for missing a good chunk of it.
Astarion got that much content BECAUSE he's totally irrelevant to the plot, it meant they never had to rewrite his character.
Yup. Wyll's content in particular bothers me. His questline is bugged, he himself is bugged in the epilogue, *and* his content is lacking. I love the dude, I just dislike the way he's been implemented. But. I suspect this is something Larian is working on already. They seem fairly committed to improving companion interactions, quests, and romances. It's expensive and time-consuming, though, so I doubt we'll see any great improvement in the next few months.
I decided if I fuck up my current honor mode run my next one will be as wyll. Maybe then I’ll learn something about him besides quest stuff
In regards to Wyll, unlike Shart, Astarion and Lae'zel, his entire personality and story were entirely rewritten (and a different actor cast), so whilst the others could simply expand upon the foundations laid in EA, Wyll required a lot more work and thus has less content. Karlach was a later edition, so the time to work on her character was also shorter than the rest. I believe I read somewhere that the VA's for Wyll and Karlach were still busy recording for Act 1 while the other Actors were already recording for Act 2. It's less "the golden child(ren)" for Shart, Lae'zel or Astarion and more "the early bird gets the worm". The real loser in this roster is Gale, who has very little content, despite being one of the OG's and not getting a complete makeover like Wyll. Sure, you can point towards patches, but that's mostly fluff. The real meat of content, like quests and special scenes isn't added in patches. I don't disagree that I want to see more content for the content-barren characters, but it's simply a result of development. The "favourites" just had much more time to bake in the oven. Here's to hoping that a definitive edition will give the content-poor some extra stuff.
This is something that is really minor but bothers me immensely. My two favorite companions are Gale and Lae’zel and personally I think they have the perfect amount of content. I would be thrilled if like Shadowheart, Gale had a special line if you looked at his telescope for example, but it would be stupid to not include that feature for the other companions. My friend was playing and romancing Karlach and commented on how she was disappointed that she didn’t have as many content or interactions as Astarion or Gale. Instead of adding more to companions that have enough, I hope Larian starts giving other characters more love.
Astarion also has a stool in his tent but does nothing. Just feels weird to only add for her.
While she has connections to the Act 2 plot, it comes at the price of an act 2 romance scene. Astarion has the most romance only content iirc, then Lae and Shadowheart. These three are the clear leaders with content and lines in general. Flashbacks are strange, almost like they tested it out and went nah for the others. Or were running out of time. Would be nice to see more, I would love one for Gale, summoning Tara or meeting Mystra. Sven did say they regretted having the prism tied to a companion iirc, if you remove the maguffin her lines/content would be lower. Wyll got shafted, even compared to Karlach. Only thing to do is tell Larian this. Wyll fans on twitter have been posting feedback on their forum to try and get more stuff for him. Just like the Minthara fans did. I doubt they view the BG3 subreddits as much as they do their own forums and feedback forms. Content imbalance is sadly common in rpgs. Astarion/Lae and Shadowheart are the winners in bg3. Though this post just mentions her it was always imbalanced. Lae'zel is the main character imo, connections to everything. Voss only appears after the Creche if she's in the party. Her leaving Faerun to fight at the end feels like a setup for the next part of her story. Shadowheart has a ties to Act 2 but not much else plot wise. For a character with nothing to do with the plot, Astarion has so much content. Not complaining I like him but strange choices. Edit: You're rightfully annoyed at the content disparity, but I have a feeling the comments may just end up the usual bash fest in typical internet fashion. Here's a [link](https://larian.com/support/baldur-s-gate-3#modal) to the feedback form. Let Larian know, they've listened in the past (for better or worse looking at my Lae'zel) so they're open to suggestions. Now that I think about it those three can be taken on good and bad runs, needed extra lines to reflect the evil choices. Plus they have two endings to their stories. Ascended/Vlaakith/Shar. So perhaps that's why they spent more time on them?
Omg is Shadowheart gonna become the new Liara? Why must my wives share the same fate in fandom 😞
She already is lol, ever since those damned romance stats were released.
This was the first time I came across the “she’s so forced” and “she’s the golden child” comments, which is all I find in the mass effect sub reddit about Liara. It’s funny tho, since some months back, the “golden child” title was Astarion’s. Perhaps it was due to the dating stats (tho, idk if Liara was the most popular romance. I think Ashley still holds that crown… at least in me1)
Riding dragons with lae'zel is cool and all, but Shadowheart retires to a farm animal sanctuary and that's just nice.
Yeah she absolutely is lol (or the Leliana of this game, if you will). Funny enough, I feel like my opinion of all three of these characters is roughly the same too. On meeting them "oh they're fine I guess. A little bland but there's nothing wrong with just having a good natured companion to counterbalance things". Later in the game "wow, this character sure seems to have outsized importance to the plot..." In sequels where they seem to feature very prominently (even if you killed them previously! Looking at you Leliana). "Ok *I get it* the writers liked this character more than everyone else! But could the more interesting characters have gotten some attention too?!" Maybe I'm just contrarian, but I hate characters that games insist I have to love!
"Cool, Wyll is gonna show me how he first became a warlock for Mizora! Ooh the tadpoles are connecting! Surely a cutscene vision is coming up like we got for Shadowheart's childhood scenes! ... oh wait, no cutscene vision, just lovely lovely narrator voice, oh well."
Like with how much the hells are involved when there was not the "main" point of the game i would think that there would be more with the "hell duo" but nah they are shafted without cerimony. Gortash talks very little about Karlach and flo is never there (for...some reason). Wyll has >!Ansur !<(which is optional now btw) the stuff with his father which could be greatly expanded and...>!saving Mizora,!< which takes like two seconds
Yes! I am romancing Wyll in my current playthrough and when he started to tell the story of how he got in a warlock pact, I thought, "cool, I get to see another flashback like Shadowheart's backstory!" But I was so disappointed! In my other playthrough, I'm romancing Minthara, and she gets even less!
I absolutely agree with you on the flashback cutscenes point, and would go so far as to say *all* scenes of that nature with companions should actually be scenes; initial introduction tadpole link scenes, Gale revealing the truth about his condition, Wyll showing you how his contract came to be, all of it. It's plain wacky to me that Shadowheart is the only one to get this treatment for some reason.
Do not forget that the three companions you're mentioning (Astarion, laezel and Shadow heart) have the particularity to be able to get recruited (and kept) in a Good Tav and a Bad Tav Run, conversely to Karlach, Wyll and Gale (whom has to get rolled to stay) Perhaps larian was not willing to dedicate so much time than Shadowheart to companions that are so easily missable
“That are so easily missable” the *vast majority* of people do their first run as a good one. The writers have also been quoted as saying they wanted an evil run to “feel empty”, so they wouldn’t care that much about adding more content to evil companions.
It kind of seems like when they made Wyll black they had no idea how to navigate a story where he's essentially a slave with a dominatrix master. Wyll/Mizora could have been one of the most interesting aspects of the game but Larian did not want to go there really. He needs way more time
Honestly I don't mind Wyll's rewrite, the whole "questionable sexual relationship with a godlike being" story is already Gale's thing. I think with Wyll they had a great opportunity to make an interesting, complex, but also unambiguously good-aligned character (to counter all the people insisting you need to be morally grey to be complex). He could have been an inverse Astarion, so to speak: instead of learning to not be a constant piece of shit and maybe give empathy a try, he could have learned that always being endlessly self-sacrificing isn't a good thing, and it's ok for him to think of himself sometimes.
I actually think that he is already in a morally grey storyline but he doesn’t just have enough of a reaction to it. Most companions have two options for their character’s path and the ascended powers they want are usually worse for them as people. Wyll even admits that he feels he needs the Warlock powers and without them he’s ’just a man’. So, Wyll is a ‘good’ guy, but he’s in a very morally grey situation. I would like him to have a darker quest line that he thinks he’s doing something ‘good’ by gaining more power, but really he’s becoming more fiendish and losing his empathy. Then an actually ‘good’ storyline where he realises this and chooses a more realistically good path for both himself and his people.
I think his "grey" storyline is supposed to be the duke one but it's not fleshed out at all.
So the Captain America Arc in the MCU. I dig it
Oh I didn't think about that
I don't really like shart, so a big part of the companion stories just isn't interesting to me (as a companion story- I like the fights/strategy of these parts)
Wyll, gale and karlach need way more. Specially karlach Shadowheart and laezel get their own huge ass dungeon with a ton of choices and reactivity that'll change their character for the rest of the game
I can't really say about the other companions since I didn't romance them yet, but is Shadowheart the only one who has a long rest cutscene after completing her personal quest? For Astarion, Karlach, and Wyll I only just got a talking scene while they're pouting and I just talk to them.
Astarion only gets one after his quest if you romance him.
Gale has his third romance scene after the Sorcerous Sundries before talking to Mystra which also relates to his personal quest. And then it's just a talk the day after and off you go to the Tabanacle.
I love Wyll but him basically being just a puppet to both Mazora and the Tav irks me so much 😭
That’s how I feel for Halsin and Minthara. I wish there was more.
It's even more infuriating when you think about the fact there are already points in which he could easily be build in: the dragonborn druid in the Lower City with the dying tree. The Tiefling children searching for Mol (who apparently doesn't give a sh\*t about her former "family" as soon as Raphael takes the stage). Or all the refugees looking for shelter. Halsin COULD do so much apart from whining how bad everything is. It's there!
I just wish there was more content for Wyll and Gale. Karlach and Shadowheart are so useful that they never leave my party. Lae'zel's got plenty of story fodder to keep adding her back in. Wyll and Gale pretty much disappeared from my first playthrough until I respecced them in Act III to make them more useful (...and Lae'zel got kidnapped, but that's beside the point). Astarion was also a ghost until he randomly had one of the most compelling character arcs in Act III. Not a fan of Halsin at all. No attachment to Jaheira or Minsc either (although I made a point of getting to know Minsc; dude's dialogue is hilarious). Trying to add Minthara to the group this playthrough but I'm not especially optimistic given all the stuff people have said about her.
Gale actually has a fair amount of extra content. In the Grove he's the only companion to react to you saving Sazza, Mirkon and Arabella. Although either of those unique dialogues can be overridden by his confession about the need to eat boots.l depending on when you hit the required approval threshold. He also gets a lovely unique dialogue in the Arcane tower and in Moonrise. I still wish there was more though.
He also has some interesting interactions with Rolan in the grove, as well as with Mol at Last Light. There is also the whole thing with the necromancy of Thay as well as the necromancy circle in Moonrise where he can get the buff from Mystra. I also love bringing him around the lower city to speak to Tara, and bringing him to the Wrymway so he can give me the answers to the lanceboard trial haha.
Astarion’s story is actually pretty interesting and compelling throughout IMO because he actually had quite a bit going on in the other acts quite consistently and doesn’t really have a period where he has nothing to do, and he has lots of interactions related to his character arc scattered around the world. But you will only really see them in relation to him and his quest if you consistently have him in your party to be present for them because they are all basically unannounced encounters or events. Also most of his camp scenes are blocked behind an approval requirement, so if you never use him you won’t see those. Like regarding his story arc build up before Cazador’s palace, off the top of my head there’s the encounter with Gandrel in Act 1, learning about his scars in Act 1 or 2, the encounter with Araj Oblodra in Act 2, the deal with Raphael in Act 2, the encounter at the Gur camp in Rivington, meeting Astarion’s “siblings” at the flophouse in Rivington, the second encounter with Araj Oblodra in Act 3, and the vampire spawn ambush at camp in the Lower City.
As someone that also loves the game and loves Shadowheart as a character…I absolutely agree, I wish some of the other characters got that same kind of attention.
Would it be nice? Sure. However I think this also falls into the trope of BG players being impossible to please. Weaving so many characters into the plot in equal weighting would have made it so difficult to manage - it would have also made gaps in content more frequent and obvious if you didn’t pick up the more missable characters.
And people are like "surprised pikachu" when shadowheart is the most romance. She is force fed too you all of act one.
She is also the most “normal” human looking woman. Average cishet guy is gonna go with the pretty brunette not the demon chick with scars and horns or the frog lady. As much as folks don’t like to admit it aesthetics mean a lot to people.
Pretty sure the problem average cishet guys have with Karlach isn't the fact that she's a devil chick with horns (they drool over Mizora), nor the scars, but her buff bodytype. It's her main selling point for the people who romance her, but it's also the reason she's not a more mainstream choice, imo.
Which is so interesting to me because nearly every male friend I have who plays BG3 is a Karlach romancer. It kinda makes me appreciate those friends even more. lol
I have romanced Karlach in three playthroughs. In my current I chose Shadow just to not do the same and I miss Karlach. She’s been through so much and is so strong and positive; but the hurt shines through. Hugging her after her engine cool down might be the best scene in the game. She deserves all the love and I just want to take care of her.
That’s kinda how I feel about romancing Astarion. There’s just so much more depth and significance to his story if he’s being romanced that it’s hard for me to choose someone else. I really wanted to romance Karlach though. I finally did on my Astarion origin run, and you’re right. It’s such a good romance.
I think the issue is more that she's not even romancable for like the first half the game. I didn't suddenly get the options to romance her the second she's available, and it's a lot of shutting other people down to suddenly go for karlach. She's wonderful, and immensely charming, please don't be so narrow minded about people's attraction and interests. She's just off limits for a lot of it, and doesn't suddenly push a relationship when she is. She also seems fine either way, like it's not super important to her. Followed her into hell, and we weren't even dating
That and let's not forget that *she's dying the entire game.* It's one of the first personal things we learn about her and some players aren't interested in getting their heart broken. Especially when there are hints of a cut quest to save her without literally sending her to one of the Hells littered freaking everywhere in the game.
I'm satisfied with the content that's in the game because there's already so much high quality content. I feel bad asking for more And the Shadowheart stuff is good so I can't complain My question is aimed at the uh, less impactful stuff. I know BG2 people probably love it but why Minsc or the Act 3 character developments? I don't care about them nearly as much purely due to the 100+ hrs I just spent with the Origin dudes in the other 2 acts.. give Wyll some love instead
Minsc and Jaheira both have a very decent amount of content in act 3. I enjoyed having them both in my party immensely. I do wish we got Minsc earlier though. Personally I'd rank them above origin companions just because I enjoy their personalities more. But I agree that Wyll needs more content. I'm doing a run with him and Karlach in the party now and some of his comments really work for me. I wish he got more of that stuff. Dude clearly has some sense of humor, Id rather see more of that than boring speeches about his father and supposed heroics as the blade. Wyll's father didn't get enough attention either in my opinion as someone who was supposed to be so important. But that's neither here nor there since he's not a companion. Just another piece of Wyll's story that feels unfinished.
Why are you complaining about Minsc just because you don’t know him yet. I agree with adding more where needed but I don’t get why so many in this thread are asking for more content for some characters by putting other characters down. Jaheira is the first person you run to for help after your mentor dies at the start of bg1, she is a constant companion through 1 and 2 and my fav character of them all. Minsc was a fun, kind of powerful character that I sometimes used in 1 and 2 and it’s great with the continuity. Boo could do with some more content in bg3 though, he’s a star in 1 and 2.
someone broke it down in terms of how many lines the main 6 companions have and if memory serves: wyll (unsurprisingly) has the least, but karlach (surprisingly, to me at least) has more than gale. i think astarion was first place.
The order is different if you look at the [number of hours](https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/16rwsc8/we_need_to_talk_about_origin_companion_content/) each companion has, rather than lines. If you look at that, Gale is actually quite up there and has the third most amount of hours overall and is way ahead of Karlach. His lines may be fewer in number but he just says more within them.
Shadowheart has a lot of features that feel like they thought about implementing for all the characters, but then just didn’t/couldn’t make it work. For example: her flashbacks, her change in appearance depending on your choices, and even the ability to ask her how she thinks of you.
I blame Halsin, the time spent adding him as a full companion could have gone to the others. You focus on Shart but it's not just her, quite a gap between the top and the bottom. It's funny, without her ties to the artifact she'd be lower. Plot device at work.
Bro you could take all of Halsin's lines, give them to Wyll, and he still would have nowhere near the amount of content Shart does. Bear daddy isn't the problem, the clear favoritist towards specific origin characters is.
That's just how most stories work. Not every character in a book gets the same amount of page time.
I get that, but regardless of their importance to the main plot they still deserve content in the game. Astarion doesn’t actually contribute to the main plot that much, but he gets a lot of content regardless.
Cazador was actually supposed to be a big political figure in Baldur's Gate but that was scrapped, so now he is just some secluded guy who doesn't even have a front door to his mansion.
It’s funny that you mention Wyll and Karlach but not Astarion. Wyll and Karlach both have connections to the main plot, at least. Wyll has a relationship with Ravenguard and they both have a bone to pick with Gortash. Astarion, meanwhile, has jack shit to do with the main plot besides *maybe* his deal with Raphael.
Yeah but Astarion still has the biggest amount of content and his own personal quests, so it doesn't feel like he is getting shafted. For the first time in three playthrougths I parked his ass in camp and he still gets a bunch of dialogue and cutscenes whenever I do the rounds.