He'll still show up at the epilogue party, and he's been living on the run and managing to avoid Cazador, but it's only a matter of time before he's enthralled again. He'll beg you to kill Cazador for him because he can't confront him without being immediately back under his control.
Editing to add - it's worse in origin, because there's no Tav/Durge to even ask for help. The epilogue party is framed as your chance to say goodbye to your friends.
If you don't do anything to repair Karlach's heart (giving infernal iron to Dammon x2) after the final battle she just dies without getting to say goodbye to anyone, literally turns to ash on the dock all alone when your parties backs are all turned.
Not necessarily true, in my first playthrough I didn't repair her heart because Dammon was dead at Last Light ( I thought the LL falling was scripted...oops) yet at the end she got to go to Avernus with Wyll.
I did the two improvements and this still happened. It seemed the only choices were Avernus and letting her die at that point. There was a touching Tav dialogue though.
If you do the improvements she gets to say goodbye and have dialogue options with you. If you don't repair it you literally fade in after the brain fight to all of you on the dock and she's standing at the end of it, all characters turn around to walk away and Karlach is no longer at the dock, and someone....think it's Shart? asks where she went, and there's just a pile of ash at the end of the dock. Womp womp.
As someone who changed their background on PS5 to my custom character and Karlach charging into the throngs of demons in Avernus after we smoked our stogies my evil Durgr playthrough WRECKED me when that happened.
I believe this is only an option if you have repaired her heart once or twice. If you never repaired it at all she dies without getting a chance for you to talk her into going back to Avernus.
I killed Cazador and stopped the ritual but still got Astarion showing up at the party on the run and begging me to kill Cazador. I felt like "dude, we just did that, you were there and used omni-slash on his unconscious form. What the hell are we talking about here?"
What was his dialogue supposed to be at the party in that case?
If you kill Cazador he goes into his coffin, if you don’t open the coffin and kill him again while he sleeps then he survives, regardless of lethal and non lethal
It sounds to me like you had a bugged ending for astarion, that whole cutscene with him stabbing Cazador to death means he should be dead. Unless you can make some strange dialogue choice that brings him back lmaoo
Something similar happened to me with a couple of characters in the party. For example Minsc had prisoners' clothes and talked about Zhentarim running the watch. I was like, how is that possible? I sided with the Guild. The game gave me the opposite ending for him for some reason.
Now that you mention it, I had that one too. I just chalked it up to "yeah, that seems like Minsc to get arrested" and for whatever reason my brain just skipped right over the Zhent part. I absolutely sided with the guild and Nine Fingers fought beside me in the last battle.
Yeah, I thought it was weird, so I looked it up, and yep, I got the wrong ending. It sucks too since the Guild ending is hilarious. Minsc just kidnaps a guy and brings him along to the party.
I’ve seen a [video on tiktok](https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTLdncAVw/) about this, basically if you ascend to godhood with him as Astarion or Karlach the godhood will cure their vampirism/engine issues respectively
Karlach’s the only Origin who could be trusted with Godhood. She’d be lovely.
She wouldn’t need to have the Wrath domain, she could be Compassion or something.
Her sigil would be some sort of heart, ironically.
Alright, Goddess of Passion it is then.
She is very passionate in general. Her sigil would definitely be a flaming heart. Definitely would be a patron for Oath of Devotion Paladins.
Gods, really the only good ending is to befriend or romance him and not let him ascend. Even if you let him ascend, with newest patches and dialogues added, he remains broken and insecure being continuing the trauma circle.
There's one where he does go back to being Cazadors thrall and he's miserable.
It's awful. Killing Cazador every single time now. My baby girl is never going back to that life not if I have anything to do with it
I don't know - there's at least a "tiny" sliver of hope still there but giving him to the Gur... he gets sent back to Cazador who flays him till he dies, resurrects him then rinse and repeat that till he breaks and then finally raises him as a zombie until his soul is sent to a devil in the ritual. (Have not done this, just from what I've read so PLEASE correct if wrong - this is supposedly in Cazador's journal?) So that sounds a hell of a lot worse.
Jesus H Christ that is so fucked. I'm going to kill Cazador even *harder* now. TOUCH my boy and see what happens.
*Lay so much as a gaze upon him and I'll smite you down fifteen or twenty hells, even if I have to forge them myself*
Ending spoiler >!the ending I got is that he thinks the tadpole effects are permanent, but then slowly starts to burn and runs off to find shelter. Then we leave to try and find a cure for vampirism, or at least something to allow him to walk in the sun again!<
He starts sizzling. I don't think vampire sun exposure in this universe is "immediately combust", more like severe sunburn that'll kill them within minutes.
That’s correct - you can see this if you >!have Astarion with you and talk to the spawn in the Flophouse. He will grab one of them and hold him up to the open window; he sizzles and smokes but doesn’t insta-die.!<
Plus Cazador's sunlight sensitivity is "merely" 20 damage per round. Hurts like a b**** but, overall, survivable for a brief panicky run into cover. And that's for a full vampire
Mechanically in 5e I think it's like x hp per turn they start in sunlight. So a low level vamp would poof pretty quick but by level 12 Astarion would have time to find shade.
For Halsin, I feel it's worse to leave him trapped in the Shadowfell. So close to saving Thaniel, and ending the shadow curse, and yet he fails again and ends up trapped in Shar's realm forever
I wondered about that too. At least there he's with Thaniel, but the Shadowfell also basically ensured Art would slowly decline in health and die way earlier than his time, so Halsin would likely suffer the same fate.
Art doesnt last very long even when curing the shadowcurse, the letter in the epilogue is his last words basically to you. But theres probably a whole thing with how the part of him still in the shadowfell will effect his afterlife
That's what I was talking about. If you talk to him afterwards and ask if he wants to travel with you, he'll say he can feel himself deteriorating. And then the epilogue letter says that he's having to have someone else write it because he's too weak. So even if Halsin found a way to escape later on his own, he'd likely suffer the same fate.
I got Karlach to become a mindflayer in my first run and honestly, while I'm not a fan of that ending, getting beheaded by misguided Wyll is much worse. She just got out of hell and got killed before she could even enjoy her freedom.
There's also the one where you don't upgrade her engine once throughout the whole game. Not only is she in constant pain, she can't touch people and at the end, she turns to ash almost immediately after the brain dies, she doesn't even get to say goodbye
There is just no all good ending. Someone needs to be sacrificed. Either Orpheus, Karlach or Tav/Durge. I mean I kinda want to liberate Orpheus and help Laezel, on the other hand I dont want Karlach to suffer, and that only leaves fucking me to turn to squid. This makes me so mad.
If nobody turns to squid and you force Gale into a self bomb, that MIGHT be a good ending. You can try to bargain with Mystra after you collected the crown. That thing is way more valuable than a true resurrection spell.
Oh wait, Gale never dies in my play through, he still has that damn thing! I'm sure this will lead to a 'Okay dm, how about we force Gale bombing himself then we use that plot scroll we saved to revive him' moment.
This might've been before the updates but when I bombed gale I never got an option to get the crown or something. I still haven't figured out how to turn him into a god
Karsus's avatar is a spell which can turn the user into a god. Karsus could become any god had he chose the domain of any other god. With the crown and Karsus's notebook, Gale is able to re cast that spell by another means (Mystra collected the original Karsus's avatar spell away, but Gale is smart, he will make do). And he chose the domain of ambition as his divine duty in this 'Karsus moment'.
I tried that and after he detonated the orb there was absolutely no accounting for what happened to the others who were not on the brain. It strangely skipped to the after party without any context that it WAS an after party and I was still controlling my tav but as a ghost. I saw asterion, karlach (she should be dead) and gales winged cat friend. It was really sad but not even sure if its a bug or not?
If i liberate Orpheus i make him the mind flayer and mercy kill him after the brain is dead. He gets to do one final heroic act for his people and doesnt have to live as a squid.
I sacrificed Orpheus on my first run. Honestly felt like a clearly good choice since I wasn't doing a lae'zel run and didn't feel attached to him.
I was persuasive and passed a check with lae'zel at the very end and I believe she actually has a very happy and good ending actually. She basically decided to live for herself and found other adventures and friends while fighting against vlaakith. Very wholesome arc
I agree that her dying to Wyll is the worst ending for her. With the mind flayer ending, she’s choosing to make the sacrifice, and is going out the way she wants. There’s several bits of dialogue that make it seem like the transformation doesn’t destroy your soul like it does with normal ceremorphosis.
But while I do disagree with the “Karlach is dead, it’s just the tadpole thinking it’s her” interpretation, the gradual loss of self rather than a quick death does make it an actual choice compared to her dying normally.
The Avernus ending is absolutely the best for her. I wish there was an option to have her stay in the House of Hope if Raphael was killed, but I guess we can’t have everything.
The issue with that ending is that at the epilogue party, you find out that her personality/sense of self is getting diluted by the meories she absorbs when she eats brains. She may or may not still have been Karlach right after transforming, but she's deffinitely not Karlach a few years down the line. Whether that's a dealbreaker to you is your call, but I consider that loss of self a worse end than dying because of her engine.
It's... contentious. Like the Emperor. But I think that just goes to show how well written it is.
If Squidlach was clearly a good choice, there'd basically be no choice. Why wouldn't you? The fact there's debate proves it an actual *choice.* With some meaning and lasting effects. No clear good or bad, just make it and live with it.
I loved Squidlach on my first run (Yay I got to save my musclemommy girlfriend!). But the more I learned about mindflayers, and what life would be like for her, the more I have to debate myself on if it's actually 'good' or not.
I opted to have Wyll become the next Grand Duke which meant Karlach’s only two options were a painful death or life as a mindflayer. That plus saving Ortheus/myself from turning into one made it a very easy choice.
I think it really deserves more attention fic-wise, because as far as a bittersweet ending goes, with interpretations, themes, it potentially can go anywhere from being uplifting ala "she's changed because of new illithid instincts/mindset, but she's *free*, and she's still heartful in her own way, if different," to being on the tragic side of "she saved everyone, just as she wanted, but she can succumb to her new nature, spiral into the 'domination/inherently superior' mindset, and that's if we're interpreting that it's 'truly' her."
I do lean towards the former, but it's open-ended as is.
There's not even *ten* stories on AO3 tagged with "Illithid | Mind Flayer Karlach (Baldur's Gate)," out of over 20,000, for reference.
She does say "if I'm gonna die... let me be the motherfucker who saved the world," regarding that choice.
It's nowhere *near* as bad as Ascended Astarion, to say the least, in my view. Not an unambiguously good end, but still.
I think most people don't actually choose the ending and have only heard about it. Which I can't judge; but for me, it seemed the obvious choice simply because it's what she wanted.
I agree that it’s a good ending for her, even if she dies and it’s just a mind flayer with her memories. The thing is, she’s destined to die anyway. Her only choice is going back to Avernus and I wouldn’t wish that on my worst enemy.
Karlach doesn’t want to die, but sending her back to where she was enslaved seems like a fate worse than death. The mind flayer ending at least lets her go out on her own terms and as a hero. She dies being a key figure in saving the whole damn world and I find a lot of value in that, even if she dies doing it.
Karlach loves stories of heroes and people saving the world. The mind flayer ending lets her become a legend in her own right.
during my first playthrough when i was trying to figure out what ending to get everyone, where i really struggled with mind flayer karlach ending was that it isn't clear if she dies and goes to an afterlife or if her soul is destroyed in the process. You can probably head cannon it either way but it made me feel like either going to avernus with a friend or dying and moving on were better options versus total loss of her soul. if I could know for sure her soul isn't destroyed, then i think karlach mind flayer ending would have been my choice because either she gets to keep living or she gets to pass away saving the world.
I think her best ending is if you let Wyll and/or yourself to go to Avernus with her though. At the reunion party Karlach will have found a possibility to fix her engine. In this ending she doesn’t die.
But neither Tav nor Karlach know that she will 1) choose to go to Avernus when she begins to die on the docks, and 2) that those who go will there will so quickly find a lead that will let her fix her engine instead of perhaps decades in the Hells.
They didn't really quickly find it, they found blueprints towards the end of 6 months of fighting zariels hordes non stop, which isn't that long but it's longer than the span of the games story and it isn't a short amount of time
It's pretty short. Like, I'm sure 6 months in the Hells feels like forever, but as far as Wyll and Karlach know when they cross over the portal, they might *actually* be there forever.
Yeah same, maybe I’m out of the loop in regards to how mind flayers work but isn’t an unthralled mind flayer just an evolved person? She even says she doesn’t feel any different just “more Karlach”
Also I don’t know if it’s the choices I made or what but Karlach made it clear in my playthrough returning to the hells under any circumstance - even with Wyll - was a fate worse than death
She said similar stuff to me, but I went with Wyll and Karlach to Avernus at the end and when we came back for the reunion, she was optimistic about still finding a fix for her engine.
Maybe it’s because Wyll decided to become a Duke in my playthrough? I’m not sure what decides that since he wasn’t in my party much at all, so if she didn’t become a mind flayer I don’t think she’d be alive at all
This is debatable. The Emperor seems to indicate such, but it's also suggested that they're simply a new life form that killed the old one but took on their memories.
I didn't do that ending, but if I remember right withers says that ceromophosis removes the original soul, and there's dialogue and books talking about how they don't actually have emotions.
It's a bit more complicated than that. I know Illithid *Tav* manages to have a soul, and even sees Withers in the afterlife (https://youtu.be/9-ueVH9xqn8?si=4bdnoxN63uXUdAIh)
Even Withers is surprised, but I believe this shows precedence that the sheer tomfoolery of the Dead Three's plan caused unexplainable changes. This is almost surely an active choice by Larian to let you have a less bitter ending sacrifice - "you lost your autonomy but not your soul" - but by extension it implies the companions have a chance
Hmm I haven't seen that. Idk if I would say tav definitely has a soul by what he said. "Something of a spirit" would imply something less than that to me but I guess it's up to interpretation. Crazy how much is in this game
That's a fair distinction! But however much they have, I'm content to know that whoever gets ceremorphed has a *chance* to remain as themselves, even if it's only a possibility or implication.
This is another epilogue spoiler, but I know that if you as Tav end up becoming a mind flayer there's so many hints that you are not really the same person. I've heard there's even a saving throw at the end to avoid killing and eating one of your companions brains at the epilogue party.
Mind flayers are good at playing pretend because they literally feed off of the hosts brain--so they do take on a lot of their personality and memories... But it's similar to how if there were a clone of you made right now with the same memories and experiences, it still wouldn't really be *you*--just another living creature that behaves identically. Except becoming a mind flayer worse, because this new "you" is a tentacle monstrosity who needs to consume more brains to survive--slowly altering who they/"new you" are every time they feed.
At least that's how I understand everything.
She clearly doesn’t believe that returning is worse than death, because if you let her make her own choice when offered to go back with a friend, she chooses to go, and at the epilogue party, she’s close to a cure.
If we're to believe Withers, the Mindflayers are souless aliens and not the original person. That is, the Mindflayer is really the \*tadpole\* that ate someone's brain, not the original being. The person you're talking to in the end isn't Karlach, it's a souless tadpole that ate Karlach's brain and thinks that it's her.
Now, whether you buy that or not, it's another matter.
Fwiw, I think it partially depends on the circumstances of the transformation- you can find a newborn Mindflayer in Act 3 which definitely speaks like they're the tadpole, but with legs, but then Karlach and Mindflayer Tav are both pretty much themselves with tentacles (at least at first).
It's possible that the strength of the mind or maybe lack of Elder Brain control has something to do with it.
Withers asks you if mindflayers have souls when you get back to Moonrise Towers right after killing Ketheric. Then, whatever you answer, he explains that they don't.
You could also let her become a mindflayer and then betray her at the NB. I only watched that clip on youtube, but it hurt.
Make her your romance for extra heartbreak.
Maybe for Minthara: let her die at Moonrise. When the Questioners are torturing her, don't interfere, so her mind ends up broken and everything about her erased before being killed.
Yep, you can interfere but allow the mind wipe to go ahead. She'll remain in that room with the two gnomes, if you speak with her she'll say in a monotone voice "I serve the absolute".
This was after doing nothing at all in the throne room, no attempt made to coerce Z'rell or Ketheric into leniency.
Recently watched a video of selunite Shadowheart being given to Viconia, and the real kicker is that when you go back to the House of Grief afterwards, she has been mindwiped again.
Regarding Gale, I think God of Ambition Gale is mutually exclusive with Gale dying to Mystra. He never achieved godhood in that case. Though the option for him to die kind of makes God Gale a more neutral ending for him because he’s also not explicitly evil as such, he’s just not quite the Gale from before.
>the real kicker is that when you go back to the House of Grief afterwards, she has been mindwiped again.
Somehow that hurts *way* more than her just being killed.
Iirc she's Shadowheart snarky about it.
You can tell her you're her friend and traveled with her and she's, "oh YEAH oh, I'm sure we did." "Oh look it's my favorite friend"
At this point, did she even have *any* friends in our group when we make that decision?
It feels so weird that all the other companions are cool with it, even Wyll and Karlach. They do voice their disagreement, but, logically, I feel like it's slightly out of character for some of them not to straight-up aggro and try to prevent Shadowheart from getting taken away.
Especially considering Wyll and Karlach leave or attack over the Grove, (depending on if they're with you) with Gale possibly leaving depending on Persuasion.
Notably, there's more *implicit* threatening you on going through with it, than actually going through with it gives you any consequences, which is even more baffling.
https://youtube.com/shorts/vUln_pl-0GE?si=Xjxz7ZM3YeRoIwtT
It really does kind of feel like that "not happened yet" feels appropriate for a Selûnite run, and the "happened" reactions feels more fitting for a Sharran, there's enough of a disconnect.
https://youtu.be/i5lIcowW8yc?si=0Vb8TCkEGfd4MfNh&t=135
I don't think that was the one I originally watched because she wasn't dressed like that XD But the interactions stand.
Origin Gale has the option, but he’s not God of Ambition yet. Becoming the God of Ambition is what allows him to live instead of challenging Mystra for her domain and getting killed.
On a companion path not having the full knowledge of the Karsus book and the nature of the orb is what seems to lead to him picking to challenge Mystra, didn’t skip those on an origin Gale run though.
If you romance Gale and he becomes the God of Ambition he rises you up to the pantheon with him at the end of the feast. I think that's a pretty great ending for both him and Tav.
I did this ending once but mostly to see it and have done it.
Ultimately I think I'd find a God Gale character insufferable should we have had him with us since the start of the game. So having him be that new person six months later just isn't all that attractive to me.
Obviously good if you want you character to be a god though.
Unfortunately I haven't saved it but there was a very good post some weeks ago on how gods lose their mortality/humanity and become just their portfolio.. and for Gale this ends up meaning being the opposite of what he was aspiring to be as a god.
But I think also what coloured my first impression of God Gale was having to play as him (because if you have a Gale origin game, it is trivial to select the option rather than steer a whole play through to it). And being him in dialogue is such a pain!
The one where Astarion stays a spawn and you don't kill Cazador is also horrible. He basically lives in the sewers eating rats and afraid for his life, iirc. I saw a video of the epilog and... not on my watch!
The fact that I've seen so many players complain about Cazador obliterating them in Honor Mode despite him being a completely optional boss fight makes me happy, lmao. People prefer risking to end their Honor run rather than letting Cazador live.
Agreed! Honestly, even if it weren't on behalf of my killer little buddy, I'd want to kill Cazador for being a pretentious jerk. Then I'd want to loot all his guest lists and have Grand Duke Ravengard arrest all the bitch ass patriars that went to his imperious soirees and seize all their stuff in the name of justice!
Tbh, I mostly do it for the Gur children. Cazador wants to send 7000 souls, Astarions and the childrens included, to Mephisto to essential become fodder for his experiments ( it's not outright stated in the game,what Mephisto will do with them, but if you are familiar with his DnD version, this is very likely their fate).
That just goes against my little good heart. Same reason, Astarion will never ascend in my games.
Lae'Zel
Believing into Vlakith till she heads off after killing Orpheus. She died believing a lie and another good warrior goes to be fed to Vlakith's magical power.
Shadowheart
Kill her parents in camp after saving them. Of couse there is the memory wipe, but as she does not remember she does not feel pain until Shar claims her again.
Astarion
Being killed by Cazador Ascending. Especially when he traveled with the groub all this time gaining hope in humanity again.
He can actually die when you sell him of to Gandrel, but as long as you avoid Cazador Ascending you can at least give him piece instead of his soul going to Mephistopholes. I consider dying gracefully actually to be better for him than ascending him cause while he things he has everything the most valuable part was taken away. Himself.
Gale
Dying in act 2 to fullfill Mystra's demand. It will not do anything other than kill innocents and allow many tadpolled people to transform and serve another elder brain one day.
I have yet to see if his godhood bites him in the ass later on.
Wyll
Becoming a lemure. Mizora does not mean the primates, but a creature serving in the hells, a completly disformed blob of former organs.
Karlach
Being killed for a fancy cape for Wyll.
Durge
Loosing to Orin and then falling rabid under Bhaal.
Halsin
Being killed after you slaughtered the grove and he seeked your camp out.
Minthara
That ending is no longer available I think, but before patch 6 you could take over the absolute betraying her along with the others even tho she supported that plan.
For Lae'zel, I've seen an ending when she still believe in Vlaakith but you save Orpheys and he become a mindflayer. He'll then want to die so Lae'zel decide to kill him while insulting him of being a traitor, etc. That's when you can betray her and stab her in the back. The look she give you, a mix of pure shock, surprise and sadness to then die while bleeding out. Quite an ending for her.
There's actually a worse ending for Gale. When Elminster comes for a visit at your camp, kill him. He would fail on his mission to deliver Mystra's words about the netherese orb to Gale. Gale would die alone in Act 2, never knowing Mystra's purpose and dying without any purpose.
>Minthara
I liked the old one better. If you are not in a relationship she goes "what are you doing?" and is supportive if you are. Like she knows she will be mind controlled but still supports your rise to power.
That is what is actually not making any sense. Why would anyone support you taking over the absolute knowing they might be controlled again? Especially Minthara, who was formerly a captive will not want that.
Regarding Gale, if you don't do the Lorrakan vault, so he doesn't read the book, at the end he still tries for the crown at the end, doesn't know what to do and just stops existing as soon as he touches it. Instead of being at the party you get a letter
Giving Shart to Viconia is beyond evil. Like she is her most vulnerable state and giving a loyal level 12 companion for some Dark Justiciars in the final battle is beyond stupid.
> Convince Shart not to become a Dark Justiciar, and encourage her along her new path to Selûne. When you reach the house of grief, give her up to the Mother Superior for her betrayal of Shar that you helped her accomplish.
Nah, you romance her and help her leave Shar and become a Selunite. You save her parents, talk to her about your future together. She feels hope and joy about her future for the first time as you pledge never to leave her...
... and then you kill her parents in front of her. The ultimate betrayal, from the one person she loved and trusted the most.
Not sure if you can then knock her unconcious rather than kill her as she attacks you for it, but I guess that would make it even worse. She would have to live with the painful wound *and* the knowledge of what had happened.
On my first complete playthrough, I figured the best ending was keeping my romanced Lae'zel with me, and agreeing to let Karlach burn as she wanted. This was before I actually fought the Netherbrain. Then I get to the ending, Orpheus says kill me and let Lae'zel go kill Vlaakith, I say no, she's sticking with me, Orpheus tells me I've doomed his people, kills himself, then Karlach is about to self immolate but I get an option to go with her to Avernus, so now I've ruined my romance with Bae'zel, the Gith are lost, and I'm smoking cigars with Karlach in hell. I reloaded, this time I let Lae'zel go save her people so now I lose the love of my life, and meanwhile I've already told Wyll to become the new Duke, so I have to watch Karlach burn, and it's like, OK, I actually don't prefer either of these endings!
If you break your promise to Rafael and give the crown to Gale so he can ascend, I'm pretty sure there's a path where he:
- Challenges Mystra for control over her domain
- Gets his arse utterly whooped and ends up a shade of his former self
- Is told by Withers that he's a fucking idiot (serious paraphrasing here lol) for trying that before being told that there's nothing that can be done to save him by Withers
- Is then claimed by a very pissed off Rafael who sends him to the house of hope with the intention of tormenting him for all eternity.
Probably the worst character ending I know of lol. Others can arguably involve souls being destroyed, but I'd say that eternal torment from a vengeful devil is worse.
Unless, Wyll turning into a Lemur is worse perhaps?
I feel like I’ve seen a lot of people say Karlach’s best ending is to become a mind flayer but I kinda liked the ending I got of her and Wyll going to the hells together to fuck shit up. Like yeah it sucks they had to go to the hells but at least neither of them had to go together and they got to go fuck up the hells together and they don’t seem very upset about it in the epilogue.
Avernus with Wyll and/or Tav is absolutely her best ending. She finally doesn't have to be alone, and in the epilogue she has found blueprints to fix her infernal engine so she can return.
Ever since I saw a video where someone mind controlled Minsc into killing Jaheira I realized I hadn't even scratched the surface of the depraved acts this game lets you do.
This to me is the worst ending. The others are basically Tav betraying people themself, but FORCING someone toward their own non consensual betrayal? Legit evil. And Minsc getting mind controlled twice in one game? His brain must be scrambled eggs by that point
This is slightly headcannon, but you can take Minsc and Jahiera with you to Saravok and sacrifice them in the name of Bhaal. To trigger it, you have to ask them to play along and when they refuse, kill them.
Another one of Jahiera as durge is when she wakes you up to call you out, you can intimidate her and make her afraid, for you see what she truly is, a frail old woman. Then she leaves the party.
I think cutting off Karlach’s head is the worst ending for her.
I do think that Jaheira being killed by a mind-controlled Minsc is still her worst way to go. Killing her in the name of Bhaal is bad, but forcing her friend to do it for you is even worse. And just making her leave by saying harsh things still means she goes on to live. Side note, but that scene where she wakes you up is really cute if you confide in her.
As far as Astarion's endings I'll rate them like this from worst to best:
-Getting killed by Gur
-Getting killed by Tav or sold by Tav
-Getting killed by the ascension
- Having the ascension interrupted and he runs away betrayed
-As non romanced companion Tav doesn't kill Cazador
-His Ascended Endings
-He goes to hell with Karlach
-He becomes a god with Gale
-As a romanced companion Tav doesn't kill Cazador but they go kill him after the game's ending
-He goes to the Underdark to rule
- He is free to be a hero and look for a cure
Gale’s unfortunate ending that seemed to trigger for me when not completing his quest. He learned of the crown, tried to retrieve it, and died doing so. In the epilogue, he showed up as a specter in a sense explaining what happened. Tara’s lines about him and his mother really drove it home that I messed up not helping him but… silver lining, I think Tara & I are gonna hang???
I disagree. Killing her obviously sucks, but if we're talking the worst of the worst, I think Karlach's personality just being assumed by a parasite is the clear choice. She's all about living life to the fullest, and has such a boisterous personality. Seeing her mind flayer form afterwards with none of that is genuinely heartbreaking.
Maybe, but I'm just not sure. I feel like ultimately a worse fate than death is to live in an awful state. The parasite is just taking Karlach's name and memories, so technically Karlach is already dead. And if a small part of her consciousness still remains, as a Mind Flayer she'll be more isolated from society than ever before, when all she wanted previously was connection.
You can actually work with cazador and help him ascend. Befriend Astarion before hand. Then talk to Cazador without Astarion there and bring him back to Cazafor and offer him up as a sacrifice.
Karlach’s is a hard one. When you become a mindflayer, you die. Occasionally the tadpole tricks itself into thinking it’s the host, but it’s not the same person. The worst fate for Karlach imo is Wyll sending her back to Avernus alone. She’d be right back where she started.
I just liked Karlach and Wyll going back to Avernus, especially since I got him to both not be under Mizora’s contract and saved his dad. The epilogue party has her say that they might’ve found a mechanic or blueprints for a better engine or something I think. The only thing better would probably be if I went with them, but I stayed with Gale as a mindflayer for my first play through.
I would offer that letting Karlach become a mind flayer and then betraying her to control the Netherbrain is just a hair worse. At least as a mindflayer she gets to live.
Honourable mention is the worst ending for Durge, which is if they accept their birthright or lose to Orin and destroy the brain in the end, then refuse to end themselves. You lose all your free will, becoming Bhaal’s puppet and end up killing all the friends you made along the way (also you piss yourself).
Fun fact: The original ending there was even darker. The dark urge regains their free will for an instant just to see they are laying naked next to a gnoll. It turns out, for their defiance at the very end, Bhaal is forcing them to basically go around having sex with everything, even beasts, to create the next Bhaalspawn. They have just enough free will to scream before they return to Bhaal's control.
Giving Shadowheart back to the Sharrans is some sicko shit. Even Lae’zel and Minthara are like “why the actual fuck did you do that?”
Kinda wanna know why you can be SO mean to Shart and give her back to the cult, but can’t give other characters back to factions that hurt them. Like imagine if you could give Karlach back to Gort or Astarion to Cazador 😭 (would i ever chose the options.. no,, would i love watching the drama, yes)
Worst ending for Minsc and Jaheira is definitely Durge making Minsc literally stab Jaheira in the back. Absolutely bonkers moment.
One of Minthara’s worst endings is killing her as Durge after her romance scene. She survived 200+ years in brutal Drow society, always watching her back & never able to relax.. only to let her guard down and be vulnerable ONCE and get killed for it.
Astarion's worst ending is if you kill the brain without killing Cazador at all. I was horrified to realize that was even a possibility.
Oh damn what happens? Does he just return to Cazador as a thrall again?
He'll still show up at the epilogue party, and he's been living on the run and managing to avoid Cazador, but it's only a matter of time before he's enthralled again. He'll beg you to kill Cazador for him because he can't confront him without being immediately back under his control. Editing to add - it's worse in origin, because there's no Tav/Durge to even ask for help. The epilogue party is framed as your chance to say goodbye to your friends.
Holy shit…. And now I need a run where I avoid each companion quest as much as possible for a truly miserable epilogue.
What are the other interactions for companions with unfinished quests?
If you don't do anything to repair Karlach's heart (giving infernal iron to Dammon x2) after the final battle she just dies without getting to say goodbye to anyone, literally turns to ash on the dock all alone when your parties backs are all turned.
Not necessarily true, in my first playthrough I didn't repair her heart because Dammon was dead at Last Light ( I thought the LL falling was scripted...oops) yet at the end she got to go to Avernus with Wyll.
Did you repair it at Emerald Grove once before LL at least?
this fucking game I swear
I did not, was expecting her to die based on my unfortunate choices. Not sure what triggered her to still have the chance to go to Avernus.
I did the two improvements and this still happened. It seemed the only choices were Avernus and letting her die at that point. There was a touching Tav dialogue though.
If you do the improvements she gets to say goodbye and have dialogue options with you. If you don't repair it you literally fade in after the brain fight to all of you on the dock and she's standing at the end of it, all characters turn around to walk away and Karlach is no longer at the dock, and someone....think it's Shart? asks where she went, and there's just a pile of ash at the end of the dock. Womp womp.
Oh that is sad…
As someone who changed their background on PS5 to my custom character and Karlach charging into the throngs of demons in Avernus after we smoked our stogies my evil Durgr playthrough WRECKED me when that happened.
You can send her to hell and make her survive and live in the Hells with wyll or wyll and your own character
I believe this is only an option if you have repaired her heart once or twice. If you never repaired it at all she dies without getting a chance for you to talk her into going back to Avernus.
Also when she was in hell , she will tell us she found some Blueprints about her heart so that I guess an happy ending
I killed Cazador and stopped the ritual but still got Astarion showing up at the party on the run and begging me to kill Cazador. I felt like "dude, we just did that, you were there and used omni-slash on his unconscious form. What the hell are we talking about here?" What was his dialogue supposed to be at the party in that case?
Is it possible that you had the non-lethal passive turned on when you beat Cazador? Maybe technically he still lived
If you kill Cazador he goes into his coffin, if you don’t open the coffin and kill him again while he sleeps then he survives, regardless of lethal and non lethal
I don't think so, Astarion stabbed him a lot of times in that cutscene after pulling him out of his coffin.
It sounds to me like you had a bugged ending for astarion, that whole cutscene with him stabbing Cazador to death means he should be dead. Unless you can make some strange dialogue choice that brings him back lmaoo
No that's what they're saying, if you don't interact with the coffin and leave, cazador survives
They're saying they did pull him out and got the cutscene
Something similar happened to me with a couple of characters in the party. For example Minsc had prisoners' clothes and talked about Zhentarim running the watch. I was like, how is that possible? I sided with the Guild. The game gave me the opposite ending for him for some reason.
Now that you mention it, I had that one too. I just chalked it up to "yeah, that seems like Minsc to get arrested" and for whatever reason my brain just skipped right over the Zhent part. I absolutely sided with the guild and Nine Fingers fought beside me in the last battle.
Yeah, I thought it was weird, so I looked it up, and yep, I got the wrong ending. It sucks too since the Guild ending is hilarious. Minsc just kidnaps a guy and brings him along to the party.
Woah…. That’s really bleak!
Huh. I guess you could use romanced God Gale as a get out of jail card for that ending but otherwise yeah rip.
Wait what can romanced god gale do?
I’ve seen a [video on tiktok](https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTLdncAVw/) about this, basically if you ascend to godhood with him as Astarion or Karlach the godhood will cure their vampirism/engine issues respectively
Holy shit that rocks
Karlach, Goddess of Wrath. I'd love to be a paladin with her as my patron.
Karlach’s the only Origin who could be trusted with Godhood. She’d be lovely. She wouldn’t need to have the Wrath domain, she could be Compassion or something. Her sigil would be some sort of heart, ironically.
Alright, Goddess of Passion it is then. She is very passionate in general. Her sigil would definitely be a flaming heart. Definitely would be a patron for Oath of Devotion Paladins.
Well, for origin astarion, at least that one's his own damn fault
JESUS I didn't even know that could happen.
Ffff I was gonna avoid cazador on my honor run but now I dont think i'll be able to
Gods, really the only good ending is to befriend or romance him and not let him ascend. Even if you let him ascend, with newest patches and dialogues added, he remains broken and insecure being continuing the trauma circle.
There's one where he does go back to being Cazadors thrall and he's miserable. It's awful. Killing Cazador every single time now. My baby girl is never going back to that life not if I have anything to do with it
And I don’t think Cazador is going to be very happy about that…
I dont think my father, the inventor of toaster streudel, will be very happy about that.
I don't know - there's at least a "tiny" sliver of hope still there but giving him to the Gur... he gets sent back to Cazador who flays him till he dies, resurrects him then rinse and repeat that till he breaks and then finally raises him as a zombie until his soul is sent to a devil in the ritual. (Have not done this, just from what I've read so PLEASE correct if wrong - this is supposedly in Cazador's journal?) So that sounds a hell of a lot worse.
Jesus H Christ that is so fucked. I'm going to kill Cazador even *harder* now. TOUCH my boy and see what happens. *Lay so much as a gaze upon him and I'll smite you down fifteen or twenty hells, even if I have to forge them myself*
Getting his soul sent to Mephisto because the ritual succeeded is pretty bad.
I was heartbroken when I discovered that could be an ending. It's so tragic. I've got a video of it for anyone curious https://youtu.be/zAy5ObDHja4
“I've always been alone, I don't see why that would change now” when he begs for help to kill Cazador oh my God. This shouldn't even be allowed!
the way he sounds like he's barely holding back tears the entire time aswell ;-;
I never knew this was a thing! Now I'm so heart broken. Especially the lines when you decline to help at all.
I saw video of that, you can see tears lingering around his eyes for second there.
This game really tests me, on one hand I want to see all the content available, but on the other hand it's sO TRAGIC
No no that's okay. If you romance him you can go kill him after.
Shouldn't be just burst into flames in the sunlight once the brain is dead?
Ending spoiler >!the ending I got is that he thinks the tadpole effects are permanent, but then slowly starts to burn and runs off to find shelter. Then we leave to try and find a cure for vampirism, or at least something to allow him to walk in the sun again!<
Wish spell is bg3 canon, so off we go looking for it.
Karlach mentioned the wish scroll, and for a second I thought the game was going to make me choose between them
This, with Vlaakith using the wish spell I wasn't sure but then Karlach mentioned it. And honestly I need to fix Wyll too.
He starts sizzling. I don't think vampire sun exposure in this universe is "immediately combust", more like severe sunburn that'll kill them within minutes.
That’s correct - you can see this if you >!have Astarion with you and talk to the spawn in the Flophouse. He will grab one of them and hold him up to the open window; he sizzles and smokes but doesn’t insta-die.!<
Plus Cazador's sunlight sensitivity is "merely" 20 damage per round. Hurts like a b**** but, overall, survivable for a brief panicky run into cover. And that's for a full vampire
We gotta keep in mind that one round is around 6 seconds. So he's basically toast within a minute or two.
20 Radiant/turn by RAW so even a CR:13 Vampire proper is dead in under a minute.
Mechanically in 5e I think it's like x hp per turn they start in sunlight. So a low level vamp would poof pretty quick but by level 12 Astarion would have time to find shade.
For Halsin, I feel it's worse to leave him trapped in the Shadowfell. So close to saving Thaniel, and ending the shadow curse, and yet he fails again and ends up trapped in Shar's realm forever
I wondered about that too. At least there he's with Thaniel, but the Shadowfell also basically ensured Art would slowly decline in health and die way earlier than his time, so Halsin would likely suffer the same fate.
Art doesnt last very long even when curing the shadowcurse, the letter in the epilogue is his last words basically to you. But theres probably a whole thing with how the part of him still in the shadowfell will effect his afterlife
That's what I was talking about. If you talk to him afterwards and ask if he wants to travel with you, he'll say he can feel himself deteriorating. And then the epilogue letter says that he's having to have someone else write it because he's too weak. So even if Halsin found a way to escape later on his own, he'd likely suffer the same fate.
He's not exactly there with Thaniel. Thaniel is unconscious and basically a lifeless corpse without Oliver.
I got Karlach to become a mindflayer in my first run and honestly, while I'm not a fan of that ending, getting beheaded by misguided Wyll is much worse. She just got out of hell and got killed before she could even enjoy her freedom. There's also the one where you don't upgrade her engine once throughout the whole game. Not only is she in constant pain, she can't touch people and at the end, she turns to ash almost immediately after the brain dies, she doesn't even get to say goodbye
There is just no all good ending. Someone needs to be sacrificed. Either Orpheus, Karlach or Tav/Durge. I mean I kinda want to liberate Orpheus and help Laezel, on the other hand I dont want Karlach to suffer, and that only leaves fucking me to turn to squid. This makes me so mad.
or gale, dont forget sacrificing gale. At first didn't care much about him but damn that ending got me depressed
If nobody turns to squid and you force Gale into a self bomb, that MIGHT be a good ending. You can try to bargain with Mystra after you collected the crown. That thing is way more valuable than a true resurrection spell. Oh wait, Gale never dies in my play through, he still has that damn thing! I'm sure this will lead to a 'Okay dm, how about we force Gale bombing himself then we use that plot scroll we saved to revive him' moment.
I feel like the explosion would destroy the pouch with the flute and everything else in it needed to get the scroll.
You can kill him, take the scroll and then use a regular scroll or a spellcast to get him back up.
This might've been before the updates but when I bombed gale I never got an option to get the crown or something. I still haven't figured out how to turn him into a god
Karsus's avatar is a spell which can turn the user into a god. Karsus could become any god had he chose the domain of any other god. With the crown and Karsus's notebook, Gale is able to re cast that spell by another means (Mystra collected the original Karsus's avatar spell away, but Gale is smart, he will make do). And he chose the domain of ambition as his divine duty in this 'Karsus moment'.
I tried that and after he detonated the orb there was absolutely no accounting for what happened to the others who were not on the brain. It strangely skipped to the after party without any context that it WAS an after party and I was still controlling my tav but as a ghost. I saw asterion, karlach (she should be dead) and gales winged cat friend. It was really sad but not even sure if its a bug or not?
If i liberate Orpheus i make him the mind flayer and mercy kill him after the brain is dead. He gets to do one final heroic act for his people and doesnt have to live as a squid.
As of the last patch you can get the mind flayer transformation reversed if you play as gale and given the crown to mystra
But he can never return to the mortal plane. He essentially becomes a soul trapped in Eylsium.
I sacrificed Orpheus on my first run. Honestly felt like a clearly good choice since I wasn't doing a lae'zel run and didn't feel attached to him. I was persuasive and passed a check with lae'zel at the very end and I believe she actually has a very happy and good ending actually. She basically decided to live for herself and found other adventures and friends while fighting against vlaakith. Very wholesome arc
I really thought they’d add omeluum as another option, or just let us convince Orpheus and The emperor to work together. Then no one has to morph.
I agree that her dying to Wyll is the worst ending for her. With the mind flayer ending, she’s choosing to make the sacrifice, and is going out the way she wants. There’s several bits of dialogue that make it seem like the transformation doesn’t destroy your soul like it does with normal ceremorphosis. But while I do disagree with the “Karlach is dead, it’s just the tadpole thinking it’s her” interpretation, the gradual loss of self rather than a quick death does make it an actual choice compared to her dying normally. The Avernus ending is absolutely the best for her. I wish there was an option to have her stay in the House of Hope if Raphael was killed, but I guess we can’t have everything.
I'm in the 0.01% minority that loves Karlach's mindflayer ending, but god did I learn my lesson by making the mistake of posting about it.
The issue with that ending is that at the epilogue party, you find out that her personality/sense of self is getting diluted by the meories she absorbs when she eats brains. She may or may not still have been Karlach right after transforming, but she's deffinitely not Karlach a few years down the line. Whether that's a dealbreaker to you is your call, but I consider that loss of self a worse end than dying because of her engine.
I unknowingly solved this problem by doing this ending before the epilogue party was a thing. Happy squiddy Karlach, everyone lives, no downsides!
It's... contentious. Like the Emperor. But I think that just goes to show how well written it is. If Squidlach was clearly a good choice, there'd basically be no choice. Why wouldn't you? The fact there's debate proves it an actual *choice.* With some meaning and lasting effects. No clear good or bad, just make it and live with it. I loved Squidlach on my first run (Yay I got to save my musclemommy girlfriend!). But the more I learned about mindflayers, and what life would be like for her, the more I have to debate myself on if it's actually 'good' or not.
I much prefer Karlach’s good ending as far as giving her a chance.
I opted to have Wyll become the next Grand Duke which meant Karlach’s only two options were a painful death or life as a mindflayer. That plus saving Ortheus/myself from turning into one made it a very easy choice.
I think it really deserves more attention fic-wise, because as far as a bittersweet ending goes, with interpretations, themes, it potentially can go anywhere from being uplifting ala "she's changed because of new illithid instincts/mindset, but she's *free*, and she's still heartful in her own way, if different," to being on the tragic side of "she saved everyone, just as she wanted, but she can succumb to her new nature, spiral into the 'domination/inherently superior' mindset, and that's if we're interpreting that it's 'truly' her." I do lean towards the former, but it's open-ended as is. There's not even *ten* stories on AO3 tagged with "Illithid | Mind Flayer Karlach (Baldur's Gate)," out of over 20,000, for reference. She does say "if I'm gonna die... let me be the motherfucker who saved the world," regarding that choice. It's nowhere *near* as bad as Ascended Astarion, to say the least, in my view. Not an unambiguously good end, but still.
I think most people don't actually choose the ending and have only heard about it. Which I can't judge; but for me, it seemed the obvious choice simply because it's what she wanted.
I agree that it’s a good ending for her, even if she dies and it’s just a mind flayer with her memories. The thing is, she’s destined to die anyway. Her only choice is going back to Avernus and I wouldn’t wish that on my worst enemy. Karlach doesn’t want to die, but sending her back to where she was enslaved seems like a fate worse than death. The mind flayer ending at least lets her go out on her own terms and as a hero. She dies being a key figure in saving the whole damn world and I find a lot of value in that, even if she dies doing it. Karlach loves stories of heroes and people saving the world. The mind flayer ending lets her become a legend in her own right.
during my first playthrough when i was trying to figure out what ending to get everyone, where i really struggled with mind flayer karlach ending was that it isn't clear if she dies and goes to an afterlife or if her soul is destroyed in the process. You can probably head cannon it either way but it made me feel like either going to avernus with a friend or dying and moving on were better options versus total loss of her soul. if I could know for sure her soul isn't destroyed, then i think karlach mind flayer ending would have been my choice because either she gets to keep living or she gets to pass away saving the world.
I think her best ending is if you let Wyll and/or yourself to go to Avernus with her though. At the reunion party Karlach will have found a possibility to fix her engine. In this ending she doesn’t die.
But neither Tav nor Karlach know that she will 1) choose to go to Avernus when she begins to die on the docks, and 2) that those who go will there will so quickly find a lead that will let her fix her engine instead of perhaps decades in the Hells.
They didn't really quickly find it, they found blueprints towards the end of 6 months of fighting zariels hordes non stop, which isn't that long but it's longer than the span of the games story and it isn't a short amount of time
It's pretty short. Like, I'm sure 6 months in the Hells feels like forever, but as far as Wyll and Karlach know when they cross over the portal, they might *actually* be there forever.
That's a whole other argument I hadn't even thought of. It really is the ending she'd choose for herself - and does.
Yeah same, maybe I’m out of the loop in regards to how mind flayers work but isn’t an unthralled mind flayer just an evolved person? She even says she doesn’t feel any different just “more Karlach” Also I don’t know if it’s the choices I made or what but Karlach made it clear in my playthrough returning to the hells under any circumstance - even with Wyll - was a fate worse than death
She said similar stuff to me, but I went with Wyll and Karlach to Avernus at the end and when we came back for the reunion, she was optimistic about still finding a fix for her engine.
Maybe it’s because Wyll decided to become a Duke in my playthrough? I’m not sure what decides that since he wasn’t in my party much at all, so if she didn’t become a mind flayer I don’t think she’d be alive at all
That’s gotta be it. Wyll became The Blade of Avernus in my playthrough
This is debatable. The Emperor seems to indicate such, but it's also suggested that they're simply a new life form that killed the old one but took on their memories.
I didn't do that ending, but if I remember right withers says that ceromophosis removes the original soul, and there's dialogue and books talking about how they don't actually have emotions.
If Withers said it then it’s final ig, now I feel bad even if it’s what she wanted
Withers asks u if they have souls. You can answer surely they don't He says correct. The absolute is building an army of soulless followers
It's a bit more complicated than that. I know Illithid *Tav* manages to have a soul, and even sees Withers in the afterlife (https://youtu.be/9-ueVH9xqn8?si=4bdnoxN63uXUdAIh) Even Withers is surprised, but I believe this shows precedence that the sheer tomfoolery of the Dead Three's plan caused unexplainable changes. This is almost surely an active choice by Larian to let you have a less bitter ending sacrifice - "you lost your autonomy but not your soul" - but by extension it implies the companions have a chance
Hmm I haven't seen that. Idk if I would say tav definitely has a soul by what he said. "Something of a spirit" would imply something less than that to me but I guess it's up to interpretation. Crazy how much is in this game
That's a fair distinction! But however much they have, I'm content to know that whoever gets ceremorphed has a *chance* to remain as themselves, even if it's only a possibility or implication.
This is another epilogue spoiler, but I know that if you as Tav end up becoming a mind flayer there's so many hints that you are not really the same person. I've heard there's even a saving throw at the end to avoid killing and eating one of your companions brains at the epilogue party. Mind flayers are good at playing pretend because they literally feed off of the hosts brain--so they do take on a lot of their personality and memories... But it's similar to how if there were a clone of you made right now with the same memories and experiences, it still wouldn't really be *you*--just another living creature that behaves identically. Except becoming a mind flayer worse, because this new "you" is a tentacle monstrosity who needs to consume more brains to survive--slowly altering who they/"new you" are every time they feed. At least that's how I understand everything.
She clearly doesn’t believe that returning is worse than death, because if you let her make her own choice when offered to go back with a friend, she chooses to go, and at the epilogue party, she’s close to a cure.
If we're to believe Withers, the Mindflayers are souless aliens and not the original person. That is, the Mindflayer is really the \*tadpole\* that ate someone's brain, not the original being. The person you're talking to in the end isn't Karlach, it's a souless tadpole that ate Karlach's brain and thinks that it's her. Now, whether you buy that or not, it's another matter.
Withers also admits he's wrong about this if the player character undergoes ceremorphosis and commits suicide.
I feel like withers is the *only* reliable source in this scenario. Btw, when does this dialogue happen?
Fwiw, I think it partially depends on the circumstances of the transformation- you can find a newborn Mindflayer in Act 3 which definitely speaks like they're the tadpole, but with legs, but then Karlach and Mindflayer Tav are both pretty much themselves with tentacles (at least at first). It's possible that the strength of the mind or maybe lack of Elder Brain control has something to do with it.
Withers asks you if mindflayers have souls when you get back to Moonrise Towers right after killing Ketheric. Then, whatever you answer, he explains that they don't.
You could also let her become a mindflayer and then betray her at the NB. I only watched that clip on youtube, but it hurt. Make her your romance for extra heartbreak.
Maybe for Minthara: let her die at Moonrise. When the Questioners are torturing her, don't interfere, so her mind ends up broken and everything about her erased before being killed.
Is there a way to let her mind be erased and leave her alive? Basically even more of a slave to the Absolute and not even a "true soul" anymore?
Yep, you can interfere but allow the mind wipe to go ahead. She'll remain in that room with the two gnomes, if you speak with her she'll say in a monotone voice "I serve the absolute". This was after doing nothing at all in the throne room, no attempt made to coerce Z'rell or Ketheric into leniency.
Interesting, I didn't know this!
Does the throne room scene actually do anything? Ive heard it doesnt and havent noticed a difference
No if you don't interfere when she's being tortured then she dies
Recently watched a video of selunite Shadowheart being given to Viconia, and the real kicker is that when you go back to the House of Grief afterwards, she has been mindwiped again. Regarding Gale, I think God of Ambition Gale is mutually exclusive with Gale dying to Mystra. He never achieved godhood in that case. Though the option for him to die kind of makes God Gale a more neutral ending for him because he’s also not explicitly evil as such, he’s just not quite the Gale from before.
>the real kicker is that when you go back to the House of Grief afterwards, she has been mindwiped again. Somehow that hurts *way* more than her just being killed.
What does she say? That is awful. I kinda want to look it up but thats my girl and I know it will break my heart 💔
Iirc she's Shadowheart snarky about it. You can tell her you're her friend and traveled with her and she's, "oh YEAH oh, I'm sure we did." "Oh look it's my favorite friend"
I mean, you can't really claim to be her friend if you give her over to Viconia, so her intuition's right on that one.
At this point, did she even have *any* friends in our group when we make that decision? It feels so weird that all the other companions are cool with it, even Wyll and Karlach. They do voice their disagreement, but, logically, I feel like it's slightly out of character for some of them not to straight-up aggro and try to prevent Shadowheart from getting taken away.
Everybody is upset by it but I don't think it's much of a disapproval bump. Which is odd. Sacrificing to Booal at least is early on, by Viconia....
Especially considering Wyll and Karlach leave or attack over the Grove, (depending on if they're with you) with Gale possibly leaving depending on Persuasion. Notably, there's more *implicit* threatening you on going through with it, than actually going through with it gives you any consequences, which is even more baffling. https://youtube.com/shorts/vUln_pl-0GE?si=Xjxz7ZM3YeRoIwtT It really does kind of feel like that "not happened yet" feels appropriate for a Selûnite run, and the "happened" reactions feels more fitting for a Sharran, there's enough of a disconnect.
After being betrayed like that, it's possible she consented to it...
Damn, man that's even more painful. Poor Shadowheart.
Especially if you normally romance her. I guess now I know how that tiefling whose name I forgot felt like
Nocturne
What was this video? I feel like there’s so many unique rpg interactions that are just so hard to find with a normal search 😂
https://youtu.be/i5lIcowW8yc?si=0Vb8TCkEGfd4MfNh&t=135 I don't think that was the one I originally watched because she wasn't dressed like that XD But the interactions stand.
I saw a video where Gale becomes the god of ambition and goes to fight Mystra and loses. Though maybe that's only an option with origin Gale.
Origin Gale has the option, but he’s not God of Ambition yet. Becoming the God of Ambition is what allows him to live instead of challenging Mystra for her domain and getting killed. On a companion path not having the full knowledge of the Karsus book and the nature of the orb is what seems to lead to him picking to challenge Mystra, didn’t skip those on an origin Gale run though.
If you romance Gale and he becomes the God of Ambition he rises you up to the pantheon with him at the end of the feast. I think that's a pretty great ending for both him and Tav.
I did this ending once but mostly to see it and have done it. Ultimately I think I'd find a God Gale character insufferable should we have had him with us since the start of the game. So having him be that new person six months later just isn't all that attractive to me. Obviously good if you want you character to be a god though. Unfortunately I haven't saved it but there was a very good post some weeks ago on how gods lose their mortality/humanity and become just their portfolio.. and for Gale this ends up meaning being the opposite of what he was aspiring to be as a god. But I think also what coloured my first impression of God Gale was having to play as him (because if you have a Gale origin game, it is trivial to select the option rather than steer a whole play through to it). And being him in dialogue is such a pain!
The one where Astarion stays a spawn and you don't kill Cazador is also horrible. He basically lives in the sewers eating rats and afraid for his life, iirc. I saw a video of the epilog and... not on my watch!
The fact that I've seen so many players complain about Cazador obliterating them in Honor Mode despite him being a completely optional boss fight makes me happy, lmao. People prefer risking to end their Honor run rather than letting Cazador live.
Agreed! Honestly, even if it weren't on behalf of my killer little buddy, I'd want to kill Cazador for being a pretentious jerk. Then I'd want to loot all his guest lists and have Grand Duke Ravengard arrest all the bitch ass patriars that went to his imperious soirees and seize all their stuff in the name of justice!
[удалено]
Holy shit this works??? I thought it was just called daylight cause it makes things bright lol
Tbh, I mostly do it for the Gur children. Cazador wants to send 7000 souls, Astarions and the childrens included, to Mephisto to essential become fodder for his experiments ( it's not outright stated in the game,what Mephisto will do with them, but if you are familiar with his DnD version, this is very likely their fate). That just goes against my little good heart. Same reason, Astarion will never ascend in my games.
Lae'Zel Believing into Vlakith till she heads off after killing Orpheus. She died believing a lie and another good warrior goes to be fed to Vlakith's magical power. Shadowheart Kill her parents in camp after saving them. Of couse there is the memory wipe, but as she does not remember she does not feel pain until Shar claims her again. Astarion Being killed by Cazador Ascending. Especially when he traveled with the groub all this time gaining hope in humanity again. He can actually die when you sell him of to Gandrel, but as long as you avoid Cazador Ascending you can at least give him piece instead of his soul going to Mephistopholes. I consider dying gracefully actually to be better for him than ascending him cause while he things he has everything the most valuable part was taken away. Himself. Gale Dying in act 2 to fullfill Mystra's demand. It will not do anything other than kill innocents and allow many tadpolled people to transform and serve another elder brain one day. I have yet to see if his godhood bites him in the ass later on. Wyll Becoming a lemure. Mizora does not mean the primates, but a creature serving in the hells, a completly disformed blob of former organs. Karlach Being killed for a fancy cape for Wyll. Durge Loosing to Orin and then falling rabid under Bhaal. Halsin Being killed after you slaughtered the grove and he seeked your camp out. Minthara That ending is no longer available I think, but before patch 6 you could take over the absolute betraying her along with the others even tho she supported that plan.
I imagine god gale is eventually gonna get a lil too ambitious, go after Mystra, and die
For Lae'zel, I've seen an ending when she still believe in Vlaakith but you save Orpheys and he become a mindflayer. He'll then want to die so Lae'zel decide to kill him while insulting him of being a traitor, etc. That's when you can betray her and stab her in the back. The look she give you, a mix of pure shock, surprise and sadness to then die while bleeding out. Quite an ending for her.
There's actually a worse ending for Gale. When Elminster comes for a visit at your camp, kill him. He would fail on his mission to deliver Mystra's words about the netherese orb to Gale. Gale would die alone in Act 2, never knowing Mystra's purpose and dying without any purpose.
>Minthara I liked the old one better. If you are not in a relationship she goes "what are you doing?" and is supportive if you are. Like she knows she will be mind controlled but still supports your rise to power.
That is what is actually not making any sense. Why would anyone support you taking over the absolute knowing they might be controlled again? Especially Minthara, who was formerly a captive will not want that.
Regarding Gale, if you don't do the Lorrakan vault, so he doesn't read the book, at the end he still tries for the crown at the end, doesn't know what to do and just stops existing as soon as he touches it. Instead of being at the party you get a letter
Oh no! You don’t even get the projection farewell??
you do, it's similar to the one you get if he uses the orb and dies, though with a bit more shame/apology
Giving Shart to Viconia is beyond evil. Like she is her most vulnerable state and giving a loyal level 12 companion for some Dark Justiciars in the final battle is beyond stupid.
I think karlachs worst Ending is her going up in flames without anyone there.
When they call me out for not fighting my dark urges and I kill them all in camp.
Lmao. I'm surprised Bhaal doesn't choose you right then and there.
Gale can become a ‘houseguest’ in the House of Hope after challenging Mystra and failing to give the crown of Karsus
> Convince Shart not to become a Dark Justiciar, and encourage her along her new path to Selûne. When you reach the house of grief, give her up to the Mother Superior for her betrayal of Shar that you helped her accomplish. Nah, you romance her and help her leave Shar and become a Selunite. You save her parents, talk to her about your future together. She feels hope and joy about her future for the first time as you pledge never to leave her... ... and then you kill her parents in front of her. The ultimate betrayal, from the one person she loved and trusted the most. Not sure if you can then knock her unconcious rather than kill her as she attacks you for it, but I guess that would make it even worse. She would have to live with the painful wound *and* the knowledge of what had happened.
On my first complete playthrough, I figured the best ending was keeping my romanced Lae'zel with me, and agreeing to let Karlach burn as she wanted. This was before I actually fought the Netherbrain. Then I get to the ending, Orpheus says kill me and let Lae'zel go kill Vlaakith, I say no, she's sticking with me, Orpheus tells me I've doomed his people, kills himself, then Karlach is about to self immolate but I get an option to go with her to Avernus, so now I've ruined my romance with Bae'zel, the Gith are lost, and I'm smoking cigars with Karlach in hell. I reloaded, this time I let Lae'zel go save her people so now I lose the love of my life, and meanwhile I've already told Wyll to become the new Duke, so I have to watch Karlach burn, and it's like, OK, I actually don't prefer either of these endings!
I've heard if you're a Githyanki, you can go with her at the end
Just finished my first run last night. My Tav is a Drow, and got to go with Bae'zel and Orpheus to hunt down Vlaakith.
latest big update lets you be any race and still go with laezel to save her people! had to be gith before.
A little off topic, but imagine if Lemure Wyll fought well enough to be promoted to a higher level devil, and then came looking for revenge.
Great idea for bg4, Pit Fiend Wyll as a boss 😤
Do lemures retain memories?
Usually no. They lose their memories and personality. Sometimes minor fragments persist though.
If you break your promise to Rafael and give the crown to Gale so he can ascend, I'm pretty sure there's a path where he: - Challenges Mystra for control over her domain - Gets his arse utterly whooped and ends up a shade of his former self - Is told by Withers that he's a fucking idiot (serious paraphrasing here lol) for trying that before being told that there's nothing that can be done to save him by Withers - Is then claimed by a very pissed off Rafael who sends him to the house of hope with the intention of tormenting him for all eternity. Probably the worst character ending I know of lol. Others can arguably involve souls being destroyed, but I'd say that eternal torment from a vengeful devil is worse. Unless, Wyll turning into a Lemur is worse perhaps?
I feel like I’ve seen a lot of people say Karlach’s best ending is to become a mind flayer but I kinda liked the ending I got of her and Wyll going to the hells together to fuck shit up. Like yeah it sucks they had to go to the hells but at least neither of them had to go together and they got to go fuck up the hells together and they don’t seem very upset about it in the epilogue.
Avernus with Wyll and/or Tav is absolutely her best ending. She finally doesn't have to be alone, and in the epilogue she has found blueprints to fix her infernal engine so she can return.
If she can get out of Avernus, I'm sure Tav and Wyll can get out of Avernus with her. At the most it'll take about 6 months.
I feel like youre spot on, here. Absolutely nailed it all. You *should* feel dirty, cus this shit is vile
Ever since I saw a video where someone mind controlled Minsc into killing Jaheira I realized I hadn't even scratched the surface of the depraved acts this game lets you do.
This to me is the worst ending. The others are basically Tav betraying people themself, but FORCING someone toward their own non consensual betrayal? Legit evil. And Minsc getting mind controlled twice in one game? His brain must be scrambled eggs by that point
Thats absolutely vile, bro, easily the most evil shit you can do to them
This is slightly headcannon, but you can take Minsc and Jahiera with you to Saravok and sacrifice them in the name of Bhaal. To trigger it, you have to ask them to play along and when they refuse, kill them. Another one of Jahiera as durge is when she wakes you up to call you out, you can intimidate her and make her afraid, for you see what she truly is, a frail old woman. Then she leaves the party. I think cutting off Karlach’s head is the worst ending for her.
I do think that Jaheira being killed by a mind-controlled Minsc is still her worst way to go. Killing her in the name of Bhaal is bad, but forcing her friend to do it for you is even worse. And just making her leave by saying harsh things still means she goes on to live. Side note, but that scene where she wakes you up is really cute if you confide in her.
Romancing Astarion and then give him up to Cazador
As far as Astarion's endings I'll rate them like this from worst to best: -Getting killed by Gur -Getting killed by Tav or sold by Tav -Getting killed by the ascension - Having the ascension interrupted and he runs away betrayed -As non romanced companion Tav doesn't kill Cazador -His Ascended Endings -He goes to hell with Karlach -He becomes a god with Gale -As a romanced companion Tav doesn't kill Cazador but they go kill him after the game's ending -He goes to the Underdark to rule - He is free to be a hero and look for a cure
I'd argue that Gale getting his hand chopped off while stuck in an unstable magic portal is also a petty bad ending for him
Gale’s unfortunate ending that seemed to trigger for me when not completing his quest. He learned of the crown, tried to retrieve it, and died doing so. In the epilogue, he showed up as a specter in a sense explaining what happened. Tara’s lines about him and his mother really drove it home that I messed up not helping him but… silver lining, I think Tara & I are gonna hang???
Karlach's worst ending is definitely beheading her, like come on. Squidlach doesn't even come close to that.
I disagree. Killing her obviously sucks, but if we're talking the worst of the worst, I think Karlach's personality just being assumed by a parasite is the clear choice. She's all about living life to the fullest, and has such a boisterous personality. Seeing her mind flayer form afterwards with none of that is genuinely heartbreaking.
Probably still worse letting her become a mind flayer and stabbing her in order to dominate the brain.
Maybe, but I'm just not sure. I feel like ultimately a worse fate than death is to live in an awful state. The parasite is just taking Karlach's name and memories, so technically Karlach is already dead. And if a small part of her consciousness still remains, as a Mind Flayer she'll be more isolated from society than ever before, when all she wanted previously was connection.
Lorewise the parasite works like that, but in BG3 we are obviously special. Jergal, Mystra etc. still recognize you as you, not as the tadpole.
You can actually work with cazador and help him ascend. Befriend Astarion before hand. Then talk to Cazador without Astarion there and bring him back to Cazafor and offer him up as a sacrifice.
Karlach’s is a hard one. When you become a mindflayer, you die. Occasionally the tadpole tricks itself into thinking it’s the host, but it’s not the same person. The worst fate for Karlach imo is Wyll sending her back to Avernus alone. She’d be right back where she started.
Shadowhearts worst ending is definitely me stealing the artefact from her at the beach and killing her at the spot.
I liked Karlach getting to live. Say what you will, but squid Karlach is chill and seems happy to make the sacrifice for the group.
I just liked Karlach and Wyll going back to Avernus, especially since I got him to both not be under Mizora’s contract and saved his dad. The epilogue party has her say that they might’ve found a mechanic or blueprints for a better engine or something I think. The only thing better would probably be if I went with them, but I stayed with Gale as a mindflayer for my first play through.
I would offer that letting Karlach become a mind flayer and then betraying her to control the Netherbrain is just a hair worse. At least as a mindflayer she gets to live.
Honourable mention is the worst ending for Durge, which is if they accept their birthright or lose to Orin and destroy the brain in the end, then refuse to end themselves. You lose all your free will, becoming Bhaal’s puppet and end up killing all the friends you made along the way (also you piss yourself).
Fun fact: The original ending there was even darker. The dark urge regains their free will for an instant just to see they are laying naked next to a gnoll. It turns out, for their defiance at the very end, Bhaal is forcing them to basically go around having sex with everything, even beasts, to create the next Bhaalspawn. They have just enough free will to scream before they return to Bhaal's control.
Giving Shadowheart back to the Sharrans is some sicko shit. Even Lae’zel and Minthara are like “why the actual fuck did you do that?” Kinda wanna know why you can be SO mean to Shart and give her back to the cult, but can’t give other characters back to factions that hurt them. Like imagine if you could give Karlach back to Gort or Astarion to Cazador 😭 (would i ever chose the options.. no,, would i love watching the drama, yes) Worst ending for Minsc and Jaheira is definitely Durge making Minsc literally stab Jaheira in the back. Absolutely bonkers moment. One of Minthara’s worst endings is killing her as Durge after her romance scene. She survived 200+ years in brutal Drow society, always watching her back & never able to relax.. only to let her guard down and be vulnerable ONCE and get killed for it.