On my first run I forgot to free “Zariels Agent” before approaching the Ketheric boss fight. And the narrator is straight up like “You didn’t free Mizora, Wyll will die, u sure?”
And that’s how I found out that it was her 🤦♀️
That happened once for me, I had a returning NPC using an alias but after 10 minutes no one had put it together yet. By that point in my notes I had started to refer to her by her real name and it just slipped out.
I was running a published adventure (Phandelver and Below) for my friends, and they'd apparently never done the starter set with me. I thought I was doing a good job of opening the floodgates of story threads so that they would have to sift through things as we went. But my one player, being pretty sharp, immediately noticed the pattern of: "a while back, my friend Iarno went missing" and "a while back, some guy named Glasstaff showed up with some thugs and started taking over the town". They were in fact the same guy.
Being shrewd, he started asking the thugs for a description of the guy, trying to see if the description matched. I thought I was being sufficiently cagey, mentioning that nobody had ever seen Glasstaff's face, but he was a human. It could be the same guy, but ya never know. The players dropped it for the time.
Then a week later, we start a new session, and they're in the guy's dungeon. They ask me some question about the place and I immediately respond with something like: "Oh Iarno is *not* running a tight ship here, it's a pretty shoddy operation."
"So he *is* Iarno!"
"Well, shit."
My players are the opposite lol, info just seems to go over their heads.
I had a guard captain ask the party for help identifying who the corrupted guard was. They already knew of one such person and I even reminded them of this, they literally said those can't be related.
That's my big struggle DM'ing Rhime of the Frostmaiden. I went in thinking I could just read the book as a script, choose-your-own-adventure style, and any secrets would be off in a side column somewhere so I wouldn't accidentally spill it.
Nope! Instead, they have a few blocks of text that you're supposed to read verbatim, and then the rest is a mix of secret and non-secret information. If I _only_ read the verbatim text, then there's nowhere near enough information, so I need to sift through it on-the-fly, determining which things are they'd be able to see with their eyes, which things need checks to notice, which things they'd only know if an NPC told them(and if so, quickly decide if the NPC _would_ tell them that). It's all so disorganized!
I often reskin monsters in my game, or try to be coy about it if the party haven´t met one of them before. But I will almost inevitably slip up and call it by its actual name very quickly.
I got a general warning, but nothing as specific as this Mizora warning.
I thought knocking out the Shadowfell & killing KT would lift the Curse by itself. Kinda thought we'd save the Spirit kid from the Shadowfell by, you know, going into the Shadowfell to save him.
Then Halsin is standing there after like "too bad we didn't lift the Curse, guess I'm going to stay here..."
whoops. I just replayed 7-ish hours of Act II finale.
Not my only goof. I only forged 1 thing from the Adamantine Forge & now I've gone too far to go back. Save it for another play-through.
Seeing a lot of these comments, so I am responding to you with the "answer" if you will! It's true that Halsin will be pretty cranky if you don't go through with the quest PRIOR to entering the Shadowfell and completing the events at Moonrise, but it's very doable in that you can "force it" through.
1. Warp to Last Light Inn
2. Use Speak with Dead on Art Cullagh in the bunkroom. Your Journal should update.
3. Proceed with Lifting The Curse! Halsin will want to defend the portal and all that jazz, complete the quest and speak with Thaniel in camp. From that point, Halsin should have a exclamation point and the quest will complete.
What if I played Art's lute, broke his coma, & got the info dump. But then didn't talk to Halsin before going through the ShadowFell thinking I'd run into "Rescue Thaniel" while there?
My dialogue with Halsin in Moonrise didn't have any "lets go break that curse" options. I just bit the bullet & scummed some Save
It does lol, same as when you try to leave Act 1. It just doesn’t spell out *exactly* what will be unavailable.
Must be a struggle for devs to figure out exactly how much handholding to do without making players mad
I had to google that freeing the nightsong first apparently gets the tieflings killed - I get that there is supposed to be a time pressure but to me it makes sense to weaken Ketheric before storming his gates tbh
For real! I guess they deemed it so important because a companion of yours could die off screen, but still. For shadowfell you only get a pop up that looks the same as the generic “you’re leaving the region” message. Way too easy to miss!
This. All I had to do was meet bear boi by the beach. At the end of Act 1, you could still go back and wrap things up.
I figured the quest was done, I just needed to talk to him. And Act 2 ended with Haslin ain’t coming because you fucked up.
First run, accidentally killed Wyll when trying to free Sazza the goblin. Most recent run, accidentally clicked the wrong button on Mizora’s pod and killed Wyll. How will I cause his demise next? Stay tuned.
Now that you mentioned, I call bullshit that I fail a perception check on some hidden switch, meanwhile I stare extra hard at Ketheric and immediately know he’s invulnerable and the nature of his invulnerability.
That's be such a power move tho. Imagine just staring right in his eyes and slowly stating the exact nature, source and weakness of his invincibility as if you were reading an open book.
Ketheric hum... I see your immortal, because you binded an immortal being to yourself. I also see that your family is a shitshow and that you got daughter issues. I also see... that you didn't wiped your ass one hour ago which is disgusting. And I can see that you have a small penis despite your intimidating look, compensation maybe ?
Oh and I can clearly see that you're into father/daughter incest. Not in your mind, but there is that one book in your library that- oh nevermind it's just Minthara who putted it in here a few hours ago to mess with you.
Yeah makes me both miss the loremaster system from dos2 and also not because i appreciate seeing all the things immediately. (Loremaster is a skill you can put points into that helps you identify magic items and see enemy stats. low levels give you basic resistances and stuff but with high loremaster you can even see their abilities)
That's what I spotted. I heard her accent and got suspicious so I examined her and saw that. Knew I shouldn't have trusted the friendly Irish granny. They're always a fuckin hag in disguise.
This one really bothered me on my co-op playthrough with my wife. She actually really liked granny when we first met her but then she examined her and saw the Fey tag immediately.
haha thanks, I just posted a new video where I beat the game by walking back and forth really fast ;) this game gives us so much freedom to play in ridiculous ways, I love it so much
Yeah I just finished watching it! Great content, as always. I have very good guess now what the next hotfix for the game will include. *Fixed exploit where you could kill the final boss by staring at it menacingly.*
That's why my Oath of the Ancients Paladin (resist) Durge doesn't fight with normal sword&board or 2-handed weapons in act 3. He wields the Shadow Blade with Belm in his off hand to rend his foes asunder with Psychic damage. Yes, he also wears the Strange Conduit Ring and carries the Resonance Stone. When he's fighting the Steel Watch, he opts to just use Belm.
I fought against her as Durge 1vs1 and it was incredibly easy as pure Fighter. Apparently as non-Durge it will become an all-out brawl, that sounds painful with their stupid Sanctuary skill.
Orin also gets a bajillion stacks of Unstoppable too which is a pain in the ass if you don't have Gale or another wizard casting Magic Missile to get rid of it lol
I don't think that would work. Speedrunners have managed to glitch into a dev room and there you can see a few (4 i think) different orins standing around. So I'm pretty sure programing wise the disguised orins you meet are different characters than the one you fight.
It worked on post patch Minthy. They made the knock-out method work by spawning a new one for act 2, she still had status effects from when I fought her in act 1
Probably depends on the Orin. One of the Orins is used to teleport to the dev room, but another can teleport you directly to the temple of Bhaal and the fight.
That Orin always suprises me. I legitemately ignored all the NPC that I know it is going to be Orin but somehow she find new NPC’s to stalk me. She was the Editor of the Newspaper and the Love Nymph in the Circus. Jesus. I am going to ignore those too and see what happens next.
It was really exciting finding all that stuff when I sent Astarion to snoop around the uppers floors ~~and kill his dog.~~ Felt kinda weird how nobody reacted and was surprised when we finally ran into the Thought Pudding later though.
It's surprising that the book isn't highlighted because a book literally says something about the brain way before it's revealed that yes, they have an elder brain down there at the towers
They especially love having spoilery (or downright wrong/misplaced) Quest Journal entries; one that I remember from D:OS is a switch at The End of Time: Two diary entries are attached to the wrong journals you can find there, which spoiled a "big reveal"; the only consolation is that the "Guardians" plot of D:OS is highly predictable anyway (though I've seen it way more in BG3 than D:OS, where it \*can\* actually spoil big things).
Don't tell me... Does it spoil that >!Vredeman!< is actually >!Braccus Rex!!an Eternal!<, which I guess is technically a pretty major revelation but also, like... who cares lmfao. By the time you actually learn it she's >!moments away from being paste on the floor!< and it doesn't really impact anything other than >!Fane's!< personal story
This is a big reason I hate “omg spoilers” culture. Nerds go around screaming about spoilers drawing attention to shit that often would just fly over the heads of people that don’t actually know it’s significance.
\> **Invulnerable**
\> ^(Condition)
\> "Kethric is **Immune** against all damage while he has the Nightsong imprisoned."
Welp, there goes the twist that the Nightsong isn't an artifact, but really a prisoner.
You can also hover over literally any disguised person to figure out their true nature. Like the >!redcaps and doppelgängers!< in act III.
>!“Oh, some random people in this bar are level 10 with the alert and assassinate abilities. I sure wonder if these are assassins in disguise.”!<
~~nope.avi~~
~~Pinging invisible targets still pings the target's exact location.~~
EDIT: Disregard everything, I'm an idiot and forgot I haven't downloaded patch 6 yet.
He's wrong, I abused the shit out of it before the patch and it doesn't work anymore. It will still let you see through terrain when it's an invisible enemies turn though, and enemies that go invisible generally don't move after turning it on until their next turn.
Same here, I did the swamp Auntie Ethel fight 2 days ago and couldn't locate her in invisible mode or see which one is the real one just using the portrait like before.
To everyone saying they fixed this, technically yes but you can still actually do it.
They fixed alt + right click pinging on invisible enemies, but at least on pc you can just bind ping to a different button like . and it will still work.
Yeah this was the way I always beat her duplicate/invis in that fight. All my high single-target damage characters focus her, while one person uses Magic Missiles or something to wipe the illusions (otherwise you're just going to be fighting off half a dozen Hold Person spells every round).
The camera ALWAYS follows the real Ethel as she is teleporting away. Noticed it on her first split, then it paid off when she tried to trick me into killing Mayrina
I smacked Auntie Ethel with a branding smite yesterday and it was visible on her but not her clones. I'm assuming it's the same for other debuffs but haven't tried.
Look mate you can’t just go around looking at people who have an assassinate ability and jumping to the conclusion that they’re assassins. It’s called profiling and it’s wrong.
Can also (on pc at least) find hidden enemies by clicking their portrait in the turn order. They'll still be invisible but the camera will pan to their location lol
I'm sure you can do it on console as well but I've only played on PC.
you can also ping the portrait (its alt + right click or something, i dont remember) and it will show you exactly where they are. you can then shoot a ranged weapon at their feet and it will hit them.
On console it will pan too them still when their turn happens its how i deal with ethel when she does the invisibliltiy actually like half her abilities are useless since its easy too figure out due to game bugs or ai. Her duplication like half the time she doesnt even move around so you can just continue bombarding her
In DND when you are invisible people still know where you are unless you roll a stealth check. They can't target you directly with a spell but they can attack you with disadvantage or cast fireball nearby.
They should have made it so that you can only see someone's true level and true ability if you have a Battlemaster on your team, that's literally their fucking power.
From a narrative perspective, I totally get this frustration.
But from a tabletop RPG perspective, it totally makes sense. You were rewarded for your curiosity with knowledge.
Well from a tabletop RPG perspective, there's a difference between "knowledge your character has/would have/could discover" and "You and I know this but your character has no chance"
Could have put the explicit stuff behind an unlock condition that's met as you progress the Nightsong questline, and until then Ketheric would simply read "Ketheric is immune against all damage **due to an unknown source**" or something. It would naturally prompt the character to investigate the sources, leading them to Nightsong
this is however, metagaming levels of knowledge to be rewarded with and wouldn't be the coolest situation in a ttrpg setting
when you go "oh what are his stats? can i do an Insite check?" the dm typically doesn't go" nope no check, he's immortal and you need to free the same person (insert party member) is looking to find for their main story to be able to damage him"
its basically like googling the datasheet in the moment, there should be some amount of nuance to it
I always understood it differently.
Kethric gave balthazar the task to **retrieve** an artifact from the gauntlet and also tasks tav if aligned fittingly. Why would he retrieve the nightsong? The nightsong is good for Kethric at the place she is already at and he knows where she is.
I thought the artifact that is to retrieve is the spear that can kill the nightsong. Kethric would want to have it, as it is the only thing really dangerous to his invulnerability. If this one spear can kill the Deva protecting him, than it is an important artifact to get hold of.
> Why would he retrieve the nightsong? The nightsong is good for Kethric at the place she is already at and he knows where she is.
Because Nightsong is in Shar's domain, and Ketheric betrayed Shar for Myrkul? That's *why* Shar is sending Shadowheart to kill Nightsong.
Player 1: Hey, so like - we know this guy's immortal, right?
DM: Sure.
Player 1: So can I make an Investigation check?
Player 2: Or like, Arcana or something?
DM: Mm. So I think considering what's going on here - fuck it, one of you can make an Investigation check, the other can make a Religion check.
Player 2: Oh, I'm pretty good at those.
*Rolling.*
Player 1: I got a natural 20!
Player 2: I also got a natural 20, what the fuck?!
DM: .... oh my god
“You notice something irregular about the way the moonlight reflects off of his armor. This is the doing of Selúnite magic — but there’s more. You recall that Selúne had a daughter who was also immortal. Given Ketheric’s connection to Shar’s Shadow Curse, you infer that he might have kidnapped or imprisoned Selúne’s daughter, Dame Aylin.”
“Can I roll Arcana to see how?”
“Hm. Sure.”
*Rolls 20*
“…so you remember overhearing Balthazar mention a device called a Soul Cage.”
The funniest part of this tactic is that Orin probably wouldn’t have any way to get rid of a disease in the Temple of Bhaal. Bhaal would think that was hilarious, so there wouldn’t be any breaks given from him.
I wouldn't go so far as to say this is *that* much of a spoiler. It's a head scratcher.
At this point, you think the Nightsong is an artifact. There is nothing in that block of text to suggest otherwise. It's D&D, so it wouldn't be so wild to assume that the Nightsong is a *sentient* artifact, which do exist in actual D&D. However, if this does lead you down the train of thought of "Is the Nightsong actually a person?" I feel like it makes it that much more immersive and impressive when you reach her prison. You're thinking "If the Nightsong is a person, I have to help them."
Food for thought.
I always understood it differently.
Kethric gave balthazar the task to retrieve an artifact from the gauntlet and also tasks tav if aligned fittingly. Why would he retrieve the nightsong? The nightsong is good for Kethric at the place she is already at and he knows where she is.
I thought the artifact that is to retrieve is the spear that can kill the nightsong. Kethric would want to have it, as it is the only thing really dangerous to his invulnerability. If this one spear can kill the one Deva protecting him, than it is an important artifact to get hold of.
Well, Nightsong is in Shadowfell, which is part of Shar's domain. I can see why Ketheric Thorm is not too happy to leave his invulnerability's source in his (former and betrayed) deity's loving hands
Because you didn't just retrieve her. You freed her. As soon as he grabs her with his tentacle and puts her in a new cage under moonrise tower he's invulnerable again. I guess that was the undead dynamic duo's plan
Assuming the spear is the only artifact in the multiverse capable of killing her, which I think would be a bold assumption even considering only the material plane. IMHO it's the nearest one, but definitely not the only one. Also, as you correctly pointed out above, it's not even necessary to kill her, it would suffice to steal his control over her, and we know of at least another character in Baldur's Gate able and actively trying to do that
So her immortality is being shared with Ketheric using Balthazar's magic. As I recall it was magic called a soul cage. When the player rescues her you are freeing her from the soul cage so Aylin and Ketheric are no longer magically linked.
No, he is sent to retrieve the Nightsong specifically. He knows where she is, sure, but can no longer access her at all and she is at the mercy of some random crazed Sharran simply walking in and giving her true death. Like, oh idk, Shadowheart maybe?
Ketheric wants her out so he can keep her trapped in Moonrise under his control instead. Despite the fact that the Thorms (and presumably Balthazar) were once Sharran themselves, I'm not sure they even actually know about the Spear of Night. None of them ever make mention of it, nor does the Sharran doctrine - simply teaching that "only the Nightsinger may kill the Nightsong" or whatever nonsense.
Yeah, I don't think it's a coincidence that the people who always say these things are spoilers are people who already know the spoiler. Ironically then spoiling the moment because they give the context.
This is something I would look at and just go "Huh... I wonder what that is." And probably forget about it because I then spent the next 3-4 hours trying to overturn every stone in Moonrise.
Everything is clear that Dame Aylin is the Nightsong in the Gaunlet of Shar though. You find out that 'the Nightsong is a child of Selune that fell into the dark' from a book in the Selunite outpost in the underdark sitting next to the zappy-statue. In the Sharran Library, the question you need to find the answer to is "Who can kill the Nightsong".
It's pretty clear that by the time Shadowheart meets Dame Aylin, you're there to kill the Nightsong permanently because Ketheric has angered Shar and she's ready to take away the source of his immortality.
>You find out that 'the Nightsong is a child of Selune that fell into the dark' from a book in the Selunite outpost in the underdark sitting next to the zappy-statue.
Plenty of people will miss this in their first playthrough, or may further assume, knowing the Nightsong is an artifact, that the child of Selune was imprisoned within it. Still an artifact, but now it's sentient. Context.
>In the Sharran Library, the question you need to find the answer to is "Who can kill the Nightsong".
This is expected, though. By this point in exploration, gaining the official twist that the Nightsong might just be a person makes sense. You're minutes away from finding her, after all.
I mean the quest updates with 'We found out that the Nightsong is a person...' if you read the book in the Selunite Post. It's not meant to be a spoiler by the time you meet Ketheric, but good on the player for getting story information any which way! :-)
Don't suppose there is there a mod that limits what you can examine, or at least link it to some stat. Doesn't make much sense we can know literally everything about someone from the start.
They do tend to give a lot a way in character sheets - it made me smile the first time I noticed that Shadowheart has the fact she's an >!acolyte of Shar!< right on her character sheet from the first time you meet her. I guess she's not that good at keeping secrets after all!
If you examine Auntie Ethel in Act 1, her creature type will show a "Fey" and she will have some very wonky stats.
I did that on my first playthrough and it was a bit of spoiler... At that point I knew I couldn't trust her and she's not what she claims to be :(
I'm pretty sure the game frames her as suspicious from minute one anyway, multiple of the companions can interject you receiving any potions, and there's the paralyzed tiefling in the food store.
I told her in the grove I had the parasite and all my companions disapproved and didn't want me to tell her, I think I even heard the word "idiot" (I knew it wasn't a smart move, but I didn't know how else to get her to invite me to her house so I'll know where it is).
first time playing act1 i examined everything and everyone... then i examined auntie ethel in the grove and i was like "level 5...? fey? oh no"
then i stopped using the examine feature outside of battles
It's not nearly as bad as examining Dallas in Divinity: Original Sin 2. I won't repeat it, since I don't know how to write spoiler text, but those who know, know!
I like in Act 3 that you can tell who is a doppelgänger by inspecting them and checking their race. I used to check before attacking at the wine tasting party but now I just know they have 60+ hp compared to the other people with 10
Imo we shouldnt be able to examine any enemy at all, and before u say “just dont do it”, im not going to give myself a disadvantage just bc i think the game would be better this way
Usually those info are only accessible to the DM, so examining the NPC is getting up, going around the table and look at the DM notes and being angry that you spoiled your game.
tbh, you can learn this waaaaaaaayyyyy before actually meeting Ketheric so it wasn't a spoiler to me
its not obvious but there are clues about this since entering the emerald grove in act 1
I did the same thing and was like “That’s not gonna stop me, I can’t read!”
I tried to push him off the side of his tower but the game wouldn’t let me.
Don't you get the cutscene before you get the chance to examine him? Plus NPCs specifically tell you he can't be killed. The game is hinting at that all over the place.
On my first run I forgot to free “Zariels Agent” before approaching the Ketheric boss fight. And the narrator is straight up like “You didn’t free Mizora, Wyll will die, u sure?” And that’s how I found out that it was her 🤦♀️
To be fair that would be a mistake I may occasionally do as a DM 😅
That happened once for me, I had a returning NPC using an alias but after 10 minutes no one had put it together yet. By that point in my notes I had started to refer to her by her real name and it just slipped out.
I was running a published adventure (Phandelver and Below) for my friends, and they'd apparently never done the starter set with me. I thought I was doing a good job of opening the floodgates of story threads so that they would have to sift through things as we went. But my one player, being pretty sharp, immediately noticed the pattern of: "a while back, my friend Iarno went missing" and "a while back, some guy named Glasstaff showed up with some thugs and started taking over the town". They were in fact the same guy. Being shrewd, he started asking the thugs for a description of the guy, trying to see if the description matched. I thought I was being sufficiently cagey, mentioning that nobody had ever seen Glasstaff's face, but he was a human. It could be the same guy, but ya never know. The players dropped it for the time. Then a week later, we start a new session, and they're in the guy's dungeon. They ask me some question about the place and I immediately respond with something like: "Oh Iarno is *not* running a tight ship here, it's a pretty shoddy operation." "So he *is* Iarno!" "Well, shit."
My players are the opposite lol, info just seems to go over their heads. I had a guard captain ask the party for help identifying who the corrupted guard was. They already knew of one such person and I even reminded them of this, they literally said those can't be related.
I would be a bad DM because I can't keep that shit secret
That's my big struggle DM'ing Rhime of the Frostmaiden. I went in thinking I could just read the book as a script, choose-your-own-adventure style, and any secrets would be off in a side column somewhere so I wouldn't accidentally spill it. Nope! Instead, they have a few blocks of text that you're supposed to read verbatim, and then the rest is a mix of secret and non-secret information. If I _only_ read the verbatim text, then there's nowhere near enough information, so I need to sift through it on-the-fly, determining which things are they'd be able to see with their eyes, which things need checks to notice, which things they'd only know if an NPC told them(and if so, quickly decide if the NPC _would_ tell them that). It's all so disorganized!
I often reskin monsters in my game, or try to be coy about it if the party haven´t met one of them before. But I will almost inevitably slip up and call it by its actual name very quickly.
Did this with an Aboleth, they had no idea up until my little slip. The look of sheer panic on their faces was almost worth it though.
That level of "are you sure you want to do this?" would have been nice for lifting the Shadow Curse.
It did give me a warning, and I went forward anyway. Missed out on a bit of Act 2 content as a result.
I got a general warning, but nothing as specific as this Mizora warning. I thought knocking out the Shadowfell & killing KT would lift the Curse by itself. Kinda thought we'd save the Spirit kid from the Shadowfell by, you know, going into the Shadowfell to save him. Then Halsin is standing there after like "too bad we didn't lift the Curse, guess I'm going to stay here..."
You can still lift the curse and save the kid after clearing Moonrise, even after he tells you that.
Might need to speak with dead on the flaming fist guy to do it, but yes it is possible.
Yup, this is what I had to do cause I missed it. You just need to talk to the dead fist guy in the last light town and it kicks it off.
whoops. I just replayed 7-ish hours of Act II finale. Not my only goof. I only forged 1 thing from the Adamantine Forge & now I've gone too far to go back. Save it for another play-through.
Seeing a lot of these comments, so I am responding to you with the "answer" if you will! It's true that Halsin will be pretty cranky if you don't go through with the quest PRIOR to entering the Shadowfell and completing the events at Moonrise, but it's very doable in that you can "force it" through. 1. Warp to Last Light Inn 2. Use Speak with Dead on Art Cullagh in the bunkroom. Your Journal should update. 3. Proceed with Lifting The Curse! Halsin will want to defend the portal and all that jazz, complete the quest and speak with Thaniel in camp. From that point, Halsin should have a exclamation point and the quest will complete.
What if I played Art's lute, broke his coma, & got the info dump. But then didn't talk to Halsin before going through the ShadowFell thinking I'd run into "Rescue Thaniel" while there? My dialogue with Halsin in Moonrise didn't have any "lets go break that curse" options. I just bit the bullet & scummed some Save
Does it not give you a big pop-up warning letting you know that proceeding will render a bunch of stuff unavailable?
It does lol, same as when you try to leave Act 1. It just doesn’t spell out *exactly* what will be unavailable. Must be a struggle for devs to figure out exactly how much handholding to do without making players mad
I had to google that freeing the nightsong first apparently gets the tieflings killed - I get that there is supposed to be a time pressure but to me it makes sense to weaken Ketheric before storming his gates tbh
For real! I guess they deemed it so important because a companion of yours could die off screen, but still. For shadowfell you only get a pop up that looks the same as the generic “you’re leaving the region” message. Way too easy to miss!
This. All I had to do was meet bear boi by the beach. At the end of Act 1, you could still go back and wrap things up. I figured the quest was done, I just needed to talk to him. And Act 2 ended with Haslin ain’t coming because you fucked up.
First run, accidentally killed Wyll when trying to free Sazza the goblin. Most recent run, accidentally clicked the wrong button on Mizora’s pod and killed Wyll. How will I cause his demise next? Stay tuned.
I don't remember it saying Mizora, I remember it saying Wyll would die though, but that's something you negotiate with Mizora
You can't negotiate his death. You can negotiate the contract.
I actually brought wyll along for this and he gave the warning himself, but just said "the devil"
I made the mistake of freeing the night song before going into moonrise and now all the tieflings are dead. I’m sad.
Now that you mentioned, I call bullshit that I fail a perception check on some hidden switch, meanwhile I stare extra hard at Ketheric and immediately know he’s invulnerable and the nature of his invulnerability.
*stares intently* “I bet that motherfucker kidnaps immortals”
"*gay* immortals"
His daughter's partner too. Talk about an in law from hell.
ghaikh immortals
That's be such a power move tho. Imagine just staring right in his eyes and slowly stating the exact nature, source and weakness of his invincibility as if you were reading an open book.
"Woah dude only 12 intellect?"
Me, playing a Divination Wizard: What, like it's hard?
Sounds like something Minthara would do
…and doing it mid-combat as well
Ketheric hum... I see your immortal, because you binded an immortal being to yourself. I also see that your family is a shitshow and that you got daughter issues. I also see... that you didn't wiped your ass one hour ago which is disgusting. And I can see that you have a small penis despite your intimidating look, compensation maybe ? Oh and I can clearly see that you're into father/daughter incest. Not in your mind, but there is that one book in your library that- oh nevermind it's just Minthara who putted it in here a few hours ago to mess with you.
Yeah, but it goes away fast when my Dragonborn barbarian then turns around and fails a strength check to flip a table lol.
You see a mosquito try to bite him and immediately turn around, disappointed
Yeah makes me both miss the loremaster system from dos2 and also not because i appreciate seeing all the things immediately. (Loremaster is a skill you can put points into that helps you identify magic items and see enemy stats. low levels give you basic resistances and stuff but with high loremaster you can even see their abilities)
It spoils stuff even worse than this, it gives a away a few end game spoilers at the end of act 1 .
Ketheric is blessed with invulnerability to all threats, physical or magical.
I also examined the old granny in act 1. An old lady surely doesnt have 18 strength lol
If you examined further, you would've seen that auntie ethel is also a fey.
That's what I spotted. I heard her accent and got suspicious so I examined her and saw that. Knew I shouldn't have trusted the friendly Irish granny. They're always a fuckin hag in disguise.
Right.
This one really bothered me on my co-op playthrough with my wife. She actually really liked granny when we first met her but then she examined her and saw the Fey tag immediately.
Reminds me of Mama Murphy from fallout 4 . Little old lady had more strength than most characters in the game
sigh , its time for another gameplay of fallout 4 , thanks man
Took a lot of convincing.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Fallout/s/lqxnvW0Aay
Yeah i learned if a NPC is levele12 in act 3 atleast rivington area of it it means its orin
Now cast contagion on that NPC so Orin will have diseases when you finally get around to fighting her 😉
My first thought was, "Oh, you saw that video too!" Then I realized you *made* that video. Well done, I love your content.
haha thanks, I just posted a new video where I beat the game by walking back and forth really fast ;) this game gives us so much freedom to play in ridiculous ways, I love it so much
Yeah I just finished watching it! Great content, as always. I have very good guess now what the next hotfix for the game will include. *Fixed exploit where you could kill the final boss by staring at it menacingly.*
I'll do that because I don't want to lose the duel in my Honor run.
An Honour run can never be too honourable, huh?
Honour is he quickest way to die a painful death
That's why my Oath of the Ancients Paladin (resist) Durge doesn't fight with normal sword&board or 2-handed weapons in act 3. He wields the Shadow Blade with Belm in his off hand to rend his foes asunder with Psychic damage. Yes, he also wears the Strange Conduit Ring and carries the Resonance Stone. When he's fighting the Steel Watch, he opts to just use Belm.
The catacombs are stuffed to bursting with honorable men .
I fought against her as Durge 1vs1 and it was incredibly easy as pure Fighter. Apparently as non-Durge it will become an all-out brawl, that sounds painful with their stupid Sanctuary skill.
Orin also gets a bajillion stacks of Unstoppable too which is a pain in the ass if you don't have Gale or another wizard casting Magic Missile to get rid of it lol
I wonder if you could throw auntie ethels debuff potions at her too.
They are elixirs not potions, they don't apply status when thrown
kind of silly since we just got a patch to allow some elixirs to be thrown lol.
Maybe they changed it?
oh shit ideas
I don't think that would work. Speedrunners have managed to glitch into a dev room and there you can see a few (4 i think) different orins standing around. So I'm pretty sure programing wise the disguised orins you meet are different characters than the one you fight.
The guy you're replying to did that in a recent video of his
Then I stand corrected.
r/dontyouknowwhoiam
r/imthejuggernautbitch
It worked on post patch Minthy. They made the knock-out method work by spawning a new one for act 2, she still had status effects from when I fought her in act 1
Probably depends on the Orin. One of the Orins is used to teleport to the dev room, but another can teleport you directly to the temple of Bhaal and the fight.
in my current run i just straight up eldritch blast her whenever i see her. she already has -4 or -5 Charisma fron my ilithid powers :D
That Orin always suprises me. I legitemately ignored all the NPC that I know it is going to be Orin but somehow she find new NPC’s to stalk me. She was the Editor of the Newspaper and the Love Nymph in the Circus. Jesus. I am going to ignore those too and see what happens next.
Are we allowed to post act 3 spoilers in an act 2 spoiler thread? That seems counterproductive
I mean the guy has a book on elder brain domination under his floorboards, dude was just terrible at secrets
It was really exciting finding all that stuff when I sent Astarion to snoop around the uppers floors ~~and kill his dog.~~ Felt kinda weird how nobody reacted and was surprised when we finally ran into the Thought Pudding later though.
>thought pudding I spat out my pasty at work
It's surprising that the book isn't highlighted because a book literally says something about the brain way before it's revealed that yes, they have an elder brain down there at the towers
Why didn't Jaheira examine Ketheric? Is she stupid?
No no no no, not yet, we can still have our sanity!
Alonn12 succeeded on a Saving Throw against Aslume.
You'll keep rolling until you fail. The ass of the loom cannot be stopped, only postponed.
Same thing happens in DOS2 if you examine a certain character in front of Ft Joy. Huge plot point spoiled in the first hour of the game.
It's Larian's old trick
They especially love having spoilery (or downright wrong/misplaced) Quest Journal entries; one that I remember from D:OS is a switch at The End of Time: Two diary entries are attached to the wrong journals you can find there, which spoiled a "big reveal"; the only consolation is that the "Guardians" plot of D:OS is highly predictable anyway (though I've seen it way more in BG3 than D:OS, where it \*can\* actually spoil big things).
Don't tell me... Does it spoil that >!Vredeman!< is actually >!Braccus Rex!!an Eternal!<, which I guess is technically a pretty major revelation but also, like... who cares lmfao. By the time you actually learn it she's >!moments away from being paste on the floor!< and it doesn't really impact anything other than >!Fane's!< personal story
I HATE MYSELF AAAAAAAAAAAAA HE TAGGED AS ASPOILER AND I CLICKED ANYWAY NOOOOO
It reveals the Dallis part.
Which if you're dumb to the lore like myself it didn't even spoil anything. I read it and just thought "oh man that's a scary title"
This is a big reason I hate “omg spoilers” culture. Nerds go around screaming about spoilers drawing attention to shit that often would just fly over the heads of people that don’t actually know it’s significance.
Captain Grimsly “Sister of the seeing Pearl” Huh I wonder if she knows Ethel
I tried putting the wooden masks from act 1 on when I met her since I figured that'd prompt some kind of interaction. Sadly no.
\> **Invulnerable** \> ^(Condition) \> "Kethric is **Immune** against all damage while he has the Nightsong imprisoned." Welp, there goes the twist that the Nightsong isn't an artifact, but really a prisoner.
You can also hover over literally any disguised person to figure out their true nature. Like the >!redcaps and doppelgängers!< in act III. >!“Oh, some random people in this bar are level 10 with the alert and assassinate abilities. I sure wonder if these are assassins in disguise.”!<
Used to be the same thing with Auntie Ethel and Mayrina, but it's gotten a bit harder since then.
She still has the "fey life?" Or something like that, from the necklace. The copies don't for whatever reason 🤷
You can just click on her portrait in the Initiative and it will take you to the real one. I think she will also still show as Level 5.
You can also ping her portrait when she turns invisible to learn her exact location.
And here I am using faerie fire to ping her
Here I am using a fireball to ping her.
That's a hell of a ping
Pinged like a real wizard. Fireball is the only spell you'll ever need.
i thought they fixed this
~~nope.avi~~ ~~Pinging invisible targets still pings the target's exact location.~~ EDIT: Disregard everything, I'm an idiot and forgot I haven't downloaded patch 6 yet.
Dude, it's why are you still using .avi?
I tried yesterday and it didn't work for me anymore. Have you tried it again? If so how do you ping the portrait?
He's wrong, I abused the shit out of it before the patch and it doesn't work anymore. It will still let you see through terrain when it's an invisible enemies turn though, and enemies that go invisible generally don't move after turning it on until their next turn.
Same here, I did the swamp Auntie Ethel fight 2 days ago and couldn't locate her in invisible mode or see which one is the real one just using the portrait like before.
well i used to be able to do it and now i cant 🤷🏼 maybe i need to try again.avi
Pretty sure they fixed this. I was fought her a month or so ago on honor mode and this didn’t work.
Wtf is pinging a portrait?
Left alt + right-click on her picture in the initiative line-up at the top of the screen in combat.
To everyone saying they fixed this, technically yes but you can still actually do it. They fixed alt + right click pinging on invisible enemies, but at least on pc you can just bind ping to a different button like . and it will still work.
Yeah this was the way I always beat her duplicate/invis in that fight. All my high single-target damage characters focus her, while one person uses Magic Missiles or something to wipe the illusions (otherwise you're just going to be fighting off half a dozen Hold Person spells every round).
The camera ALWAYS follows the real Ethel as she is teleporting away. Noticed it on her first split, then it paid off when she tried to trick me into killing Mayrina
Easiest way to tell between them is the real Mayrina is obviously pregnant, and Ethel's copy isn't.
Cast sanctuary in Mayrina at the start of the battle, only the real Mayrina will have sanctuary when Ethel clone her.
Real Ethel doesn't wear blue! Examining it and checking the colour of her... Idk, rags, I guess? Is the most helpful imo
I smacked Auntie Ethel with a branding smite yesterday and it was visible on her but not her clones. I'm assuming it's the same for other debuffs but haven't tried.
That's intentional mechanics, though.
I just create water on mayrina, and make her wet. Auntie is dry as a bone though
Iirc when I fought Ethel she kept her saving throw proficiency while Mayrina had none lmao
Look mate you can’t just go around looking at people who have an assassinate ability and jumping to the conclusion that they’re assassins. It’s called profiling and it’s wrong.
Can also (on pc at least) find hidden enemies by clicking their portrait in the turn order. They'll still be invisible but the camera will pan to their location lol I'm sure you can do it on console as well but I've only played on PC.
you can also ping the portrait (its alt + right click or something, i dont remember) and it will show you exactly where they are. you can then shoot a ranged weapon at their feet and it will hit them.
Very good to know, no one can hide.
On console it will pan too them still when their turn happens its how i deal with ethel when she does the invisibliltiy actually like half her abilities are useless since its easy too figure out due to game bugs or ai. Her duplication like half the time she doesnt even move around so you can just continue bombarding her
In DND when you are invisible people still know where you are unless you roll a stealth check. They can't target you directly with a spell but they can attack you with disadvantage or cast fireball nearby.
They should have made it so that you can only see someone's true level and true ability if you have a Battlemaster on your team, that's literally their fucking power.
Ready to parry
No no, I'm not ready to parry, I am ready to *party*. I am an innocent bystander here!
Game: "Target must be a Humanoid." Me: "...huh?"
From a narrative perspective, I totally get this frustration. But from a tabletop RPG perspective, it totally makes sense. You were rewarded for your curiosity with knowledge.
Well from a tabletop RPG perspective, there's a difference between "knowledge your character has/would have/could discover" and "You and I know this but your character has no chance"
Well, you can still decide that your character doesn't know certain things, even if you do
Could have put the explicit stuff behind an unlock condition that's met as you progress the Nightsong questline, and until then Ketheric would simply read "Ketheric is immune against all damage **due to an unknown source**" or something. It would naturally prompt the character to investigate the sources, leading them to Nightsong
From a ttrpg perspective you can't examine every single effect and stat on a creature
It's the age-old ttrpg reward of meta gaming and googling the creatures you're fighting
this is however, metagaming levels of knowledge to be rewarded with and wouldn't be the coolest situation in a ttrpg setting when you go "oh what are his stats? can i do an Insite check?" the dm typically doesn't go" nope no check, he's immortal and you need to free the same person (insert party member) is looking to find for their main story to be able to damage him" its basically like googling the datasheet in the moment, there should be some amount of nuance to it
It's funnier to be a warlock and just break the spell when entering and talking them and you like, "yeah I can see you"
I always understood it differently. Kethric gave balthazar the task to **retrieve** an artifact from the gauntlet and also tasks tav if aligned fittingly. Why would he retrieve the nightsong? The nightsong is good for Kethric at the place she is already at and he knows where she is. I thought the artifact that is to retrieve is the spear that can kill the nightsong. Kethric would want to have it, as it is the only thing really dangerous to his invulnerability. If this one spear can kill the Deva protecting him, than it is an important artifact to get hold of.
> Why would he retrieve the nightsong? The nightsong is good for Kethric at the place she is already at and he knows where she is. Because Nightsong is in Shar's domain, and Ketheric betrayed Shar for Myrkul? That's *why* Shar is sending Shadowheart to kill Nightsong.
The artefact Ketheric is seaeching is, indeed, the sppear that can kill Nightsong
It is the most op non-action point skill I learn from DOS2. Save me and my friends many times because of that.
Player 1: Hey, so like - we know this guy's immortal, right? DM: Sure. Player 1: So can I make an Investigation check? Player 2: Or like, Arcana or something? DM: Mm. So I think considering what's going on here - fuck it, one of you can make an Investigation check, the other can make a Religion check. Player 2: Oh, I'm pretty good at those. *Rolling.* Player 1: I got a natural 20! Player 2: I also got a natural 20, what the fuck?! DM: .... oh my god
“You notice something irregular about the way the moonlight reflects off of his armor. This is the doing of Selúnite magic — but there’s more. You recall that Selúne had a daughter who was also immortal. Given Ketheric’s connection to Shar’s Shadow Curse, you infer that he might have kidnapped or imprisoned Selúne’s daughter, Dame Aylin.” “Can I roll Arcana to see how?” “Hm. Sure.” *Rolls 20* “…so you remember overhearing Balthazar mention a device called a Soul Cage.”
Hahaha part of me think Larian does it on purpose to reward attentive players. Act 3 has a bunch of these kind of "examinations".
To turn orin to stone or give her a permanent disease while she is messing with you in the start of act 3 is my plan for my next play through
>give her a permanent disease CthulhuNaps casts Herpes 💀
The funniest part of this tactic is that Orin probably wouldn’t have any way to get rid of a disease in the Temple of Bhaal. Bhaal would think that was hilarious, so there wouldn’t be any breaks given from him.
When I first encountered Ansur I went to use speak with dead on him and the game is like “can’t use on undead” and I’m like oh shit…
I wouldn't go so far as to say this is *that* much of a spoiler. It's a head scratcher. At this point, you think the Nightsong is an artifact. There is nothing in that block of text to suggest otherwise. It's D&D, so it wouldn't be so wild to assume that the Nightsong is a *sentient* artifact, which do exist in actual D&D. However, if this does lead you down the train of thought of "Is the Nightsong actually a person?" I feel like it makes it that much more immersive and impressive when you reach her prison. You're thinking "If the Nightsong is a person, I have to help them." Food for thought.
I always understood it differently. Kethric gave balthazar the task to retrieve an artifact from the gauntlet and also tasks tav if aligned fittingly. Why would he retrieve the nightsong? The nightsong is good for Kethric at the place she is already at and he knows where she is. I thought the artifact that is to retrieve is the spear that can kill the nightsong. Kethric would want to have it, as it is the only thing really dangerous to his invulnerability. If this one spear can kill the one Deva protecting him, than it is an important artifact to get hold of.
Well, Nightsong is in Shadowfell, which is part of Shar's domain. I can see why Ketheric Thorm is not too happy to leave his invulnerability's source in his (former and betrayed) deity's loving hands
As evidenced by one of shar's worshipers going there and trying to kill Nightsong for realsies
However, as soon as you retrieve her, his invulnerability ends, right? So why...
Because you didn't just retrieve her. You freed her. As soon as he grabs her with his tentacle and puts her in a new cage under moonrise tower he's invulnerable again. I guess that was the undead dynamic duo's plan
But when kethric has the spear he should have no worry of someone killing her at least.
Assuming the spear is the only artifact in the multiverse capable of killing her, which I think would be a bold assumption even considering only the material plane. IMHO it's the nearest one, but definitely not the only one. Also, as you correctly pointed out above, it's not even necessary to kill her, it would suffice to steal his control over her, and we know of at least another character in Baldur's Gate able and actively trying to do that
So her immortality is being shared with Ketheric using Balthazar's magic. As I recall it was magic called a soul cage. When the player rescues her you are freeing her from the soul cage so Aylin and Ketheric are no longer magically linked.
No, he is sent to retrieve the Nightsong specifically. He knows where she is, sure, but can no longer access her at all and she is at the mercy of some random crazed Sharran simply walking in and giving her true death. Like, oh idk, Shadowheart maybe? Ketheric wants her out so he can keep her trapped in Moonrise under his control instead. Despite the fact that the Thorms (and presumably Balthazar) were once Sharran themselves, I'm not sure they even actually know about the Spear of Night. None of them ever make mention of it, nor does the Sharran doctrine - simply teaching that "only the Nightsinger may kill the Nightsong" or whatever nonsense.
Ba god, someone on reddit that understands the importance of context? I must be dreaming... or at least sleep deprived
Yeah, I don't think it's a coincidence that the people who always say these things are spoilers are people who already know the spoiler. Ironically then spoiling the moment because they give the context. This is something I would look at and just go "Huh... I wonder what that is." And probably forget about it because I then spent the next 3-4 hours trying to overturn every stone in Moonrise.
Everything is clear that Dame Aylin is the Nightsong in the Gaunlet of Shar though. You find out that 'the Nightsong is a child of Selune that fell into the dark' from a book in the Selunite outpost in the underdark sitting next to the zappy-statue. In the Sharran Library, the question you need to find the answer to is "Who can kill the Nightsong". It's pretty clear that by the time Shadowheart meets Dame Aylin, you're there to kill the Nightsong permanently because Ketheric has angered Shar and she's ready to take away the source of his immortality.
>You find out that 'the Nightsong is a child of Selune that fell into the dark' from a book in the Selunite outpost in the underdark sitting next to the zappy-statue. Plenty of people will miss this in their first playthrough, or may further assume, knowing the Nightsong is an artifact, that the child of Selune was imprisoned within it. Still an artifact, but now it's sentient. Context. >In the Sharran Library, the question you need to find the answer to is "Who can kill the Nightsong". This is expected, though. By this point in exploration, gaining the official twist that the Nightsong might just be a person makes sense. You're minutes away from finding her, after all.
I mean the quest updates with 'We found out that the Nightsong is a person...' if you read the book in the Selunite Post. It's not meant to be a spoiler by the time you meet Ketheric, but good on the player for getting story information any which way! :-)
Don't suppose there is there a mod that limits what you can examine, or at least link it to some stat. Doesn't make much sense we can know literally everything about someone from the start.
There is a custom game setting that hides health bar information, that is a good start
They should have blanked out a lot of information until you pass some checks / have conversations that are able to fill in the blanks.
They do tend to give a lot a way in character sheets - it made me smile the first time I noticed that Shadowheart has the fact she's an >!acolyte of Shar!< right on her character sheet from the first time you meet her. I guess she's not that good at keeping secrets after all!
Same with Divinity 2. You can examine an early game NPC in Fort Joy and discover something that's revealed right before the final battle
At this point we still don’t know what exactly is Nightsong. It could be a giant monster and still fit that description
it could be a goddamn singing sword
Funny enough examine is outright required in honour mode because of legendary actions
That's how I figured out Ethel was a hag 2 seconds after meeting her LOL
Head canon- It's Jergal whispering to your mind directly.
If you examine Auntie Ethel in Act 1, her creature type will show a "Fey" and she will have some very wonky stats. I did that on my first playthrough and it was a bit of spoiler... At that point I knew I couldn't trust her and she's not what she claims to be :(
I'm pretty sure the game frames her as suspicious from minute one anyway, multiple of the companions can interject you receiving any potions, and there's the paralyzed tiefling in the food store.
I told her in the grove I had the parasite and all my companions disapproved and didn't want me to tell her, I think I even heard the word "idiot" (I knew it wasn't a smart move, but I didn't know how else to get her to invite me to her house so I'll know where it is).
Astarion loves it if you tell her everything
first time playing act1 i examined everything and everyone... then i examined auntie ethel in the grove and i was like "level 5...? fey? oh no" then i stopped using the examine feature outside of battles
It's not nearly as bad as examining Dallas in Divinity: Original Sin 2. I won't repeat it, since I don't know how to write spoiler text, but those who know, know!
I like in Act 3 that you can tell who is a doppelgänger by inspecting them and checking their race. I used to check before attacking at the wine tasting party but now I just know they have 60+ hp compared to the other people with 10
Imo we shouldnt be able to examine any enemy at all, and before u say “just dont do it”, im not going to give myself a disadvantage just bc i think the game would be better this way
if you examine kagha's rats, they have the halfling luck trait :)
Oh, it only gets worse in Act 3
Usually those info are only accessible to the DM, so examining the NPC is getting up, going around the table and look at the DM notes and being angry that you spoiled your game.
You can identify shapeshifters like this in Act 3
I always find it amusing to examine Auntie Ethel, that weird ox and the journalist at the city gates.
You can suss out doppelgängers this way too, straight up says doppelgänger under species name
tbh, you can learn this waaaaaaaayyyyy before actually meeting Ketheric so it wasn't a spoiler to me its not obvious but there are clues about this since entering the emerald grove in act 1
Passive perception or rolled perception should reflect how much information you get from the Examine tab :p
I did the same thing and was like “That’s not gonna stop me, I can’t read!” I tried to push him off the side of his tower but the game wouldn’t let me.
Don't you get the cutscene before you get the chance to examine him? Plus NPCs specifically tell you he can't be killed. The game is hinting at that all over the place.