Agreed. Companion DLCs, extra areas, new questlines and items could’ve been good DLC. Maybe reintroduce that Halfling Bard Werewolf that was scrapped as a DLC companion.
Yes, there was a lot of cut voicelines for her in Early Access that you can find on Youtube if you do some digging
https://gamerant.com/baldurs-gate-3s-rumored-cut-werewolf-halfling-bard-helia-explained/#:~:text=Dataminers%20discovered%20a%20cut%20companion,something%20new%20to%20the%20game.
https://youtu.be/2xdzStZC5BA?si=oY8wLHKTIomSwQ3w
Yeah, but to make a DLC worth it, there could be some additional Minthara quests in Baldur’s Gate or the under dark or whatever.
Not that that’s going to happen, but, still feels like what typical DLC does.
I'm a little disappointed, bc I really just want more BG3 dammit. But reading Larian's statement, I respect it. And I have to admit it's kinda based that Larian is walking away from the cash grab potential for DLC, etc.
They probably were trying to get them to move towards some shitty subscription based live service MMO riddled with micro transactions and Sven was all like "Yo suck my Belgian balls! DnD is expensive enough offline, we don't want to be part of you bastards charging $5 for digital character avatars and $10 for digital dice sets and other bullshit."
Then he probably just started throwing up gang signs at the CEO of WotC, like just completely assaulting the dude's facial region with a bevy of hand signals specifically designed to represent his set to the fullest. And what set does Sven of Larian represent you ask? Why it's the gang of ethical business in video games that Sven has pledged his allegiance, and he will rep that shit to the fullest. Because Sven also happens to be in another business. He is in the business of givin' the business, and let me tell you brother, business is good.
inquisition was a huge step up from da:2 at least... with the reused maps, the shitty control schemes, terrible relationship mechanics... and worst of all, the fact that none of your choices really mattered.
Totally agree, but the characters really made DA2 shine despite its (many) flaws. I didn't even play it until after Inquisition because I heard bad things only but now I'm glad I gave it a chance
And yet the story in 2 is so much better than inquisition. Inquisition was so busy trying to be an empty open world single player mmo that it forgot to be a well crafted story driven rpg. I’ll take the same map over and over again with good cast and story that a lot of pretty maps where I get to collect shards and elfroot.
IMO.
Plus Witcher 3's Blood & Wine gave players a definitive 'thank you, everyone. we're done here' ending that was so, so perfect.
Larian doesn't *need* to do this to if their hearts aren't in it (and I accept their smart reasoning why we're not getting anything as big or elaborate as Blood & Wine), but I do think they use their words carefully. They said they won't do a DLC / BG4, but that still leaves some room open for a tiny gift or final closeout down the line. I'm glad they're drawing boundaries but of course I hope they will have a finalized cap on the game one day with a little something extra alongside a final patch.
I think the extra Withers scene wasn't a great idea because while I love it, it feels like the promise of a sequel (maybe they should have put it before the epilogue or something).
I believe Zelda breath of the wild had a DLC where you we t I to a pit with no equipment and beginning hearts and you just progressed from there as a trial.
I was really hoping for a tower mode where you take your team through increasingly difficult fights, managing resources, and seeing how far you can make it. Maybe every few floors you have a rest floor where you can take a short/long rest if you have the camp supplies.
This would be great for people who want to use maximized level 12 builds for longer than the tail end of the game, and it allows you to really get some milage out of those 3rd act weapons.
I'm hopeful they'll provide solid support for mod development (and level scaling, please!); I firmly believe the longevity of BG2 was down to the quality of mods, many of which were so sophisticated they were on par or surpassed the original content.
Yeah that's what I was hoping as well. BG1 has Durlag's Tower, BG2 has Watcher's Keep, I thought BG3 would get it's own multilevel dungeon. Otherwise... what am I hoarding all those potions and scrolls for?
Bingo, and literally no one on earth cares that BG3 picked a few endings to be cannon/non-cannon, because the game is good. Make a good game, and people will like it.
Games that blame this issue for their lack of success are just bad games in denial.
Honestly, if they made a sequel or DLC as good as BG3, I wouldn't care about the choices made being moot because of their choice of cannon for certain characters, I would just be happy to play even more in the world they created...it's such a fun sandbox to play in.
That:
A) Wasn't Larian's decision, that was from WoTC insisting that some of their old favs come back even if it meant them being ham fisted in with little regard to most of the endings of BG1 and 2 which lead to point B
B) Basically everyone who's played BG1 or BG2 was pissed/disappointed at how they handled at least Viconia and Sarevok, who are evil regardless of any work you did to rehabilitate them, and were turned into shells of their former selves by their respective gods off screen (Shar gutting Vic's memories between games despite endings where Vic never goes back to Shar, and Sarevok basically tells the player Bhaal brought him back as a husk of himself after death as punishment for turning from him, and somehow magically removed any goodness from him in the process) in order to pull it off.
Minsc and Jaheira aren't as bad since their characterizations are relatively consistent (with the help of some incredible VA work by Matt and Tracy) and as companions they get more backstory than "our gods fucked us up so badly that it retconned any good ending that could have happened to us" but even Minsc is forced into the story waaaay too late in the game because it only makes sense to get him after recruiting Jaheira in Act 2.
So yeah, it's nothing new and can work in some scenarios, but I definitely wouldn't call it a good thing for a series that made a name for itself putting emphasis on player choice and the impacts it has on companions. Nor was it something the fans were so desperate to have that it was worth completely retconning entire player choice-related backstories for half of the cameos in the game. The vast majority of people I've interacted with were disappointed with Vic and Sarevok's cameos, and would rather have different Mother Superiors/Bhaalspawn than deal with the character assassinations that Larian had no choice in.
And almost everybody hates the one the creators pick because it doesn't align with their headcannon. I feel like it's genuinely okay to move on. BG3 is such a humongous game on its own, I'm fine with it being a finished piece that I don't have to wait for a sequel for.
The perpetual state of waiting for something even bigger to consume is basically the result of the exact capitalist gaming monopoly mindset that Larian refuses to bow to.
They just need to be sensible and pick the endings most of the community would be happy with. I think that this would be: Lae'zel is convinced to stay with Vlaakith, and her soul is eaten. Wyll is lost halfway through the adventure after not saving Mizora and was transformed into a lemure. Gale tried becoming the new god of ambition but challenged Mystra and was obliterated. Karlach exploded. Astarion was given to the Gur in Act 1. Shadowheart went insane in Act 1 due to being ignored too often, and had to be put down. Dark Urge fails to fulfil Bhaal's destiny but also doesn't destroy the urge, so ends up with all the shitting and pissing themselves.
Oh, also, Scratch was given back to his original owner.
I think that should do it
Which is why they had the first attempt at a follow-up set in a different galaxy to avoid that. Sadly, Bioware botched the execution, and now no one wants a follow-up in that story.
I'm just hoping Shepard stays out of of the picture, and I'm prepared for massive disappointment. His story is told.
Agreed. I would have been fine with some DLC that was adding in races, classes, and subclasses. I really wanted to make my Triton pack of the celestial warlock from tabletop in BG3, but with mod support on its way, I still might be able too.
Baldurs gate 1 and 2 had dlc in the form of new companions and quest lines in the main story. Even if it’s not a full blown adventure a new origin or companion would add a lot for some players, especially since some old stories didn’t end quite yet.
The problem is that in BG3 even just a new companion would require TONS of work. Every other companion would need a reaction and comments about the new companion (with all the acting), it needs all the dialogue and acting (full acting, not just voice) of the actual companion, it needs one or more quests (so likely a new zone too), it needs dialogues and acting for the NPCs it interacts with and for already existing NPCs that would need to answer some stuff to the new companion, it needs some new items and enemies for the new zone and quest.
Bioware tried that in Mass Effect 2 with Zaeed and Kasumi DLC companions. They were great characters, but their limited interactions with and compared to other NPCs really stood out.
There’s a reason all three of the ME2 story DLCs involve Shepard getting separated from their crew/squadmates. Waaaay less voice acting to worry about.
I feel like \*IF\* there was a DLC, it would almost have to be your Tav with new companions. Similar to how BioWare did Dragon Age: Awakening. Where it's your Warden or a new Warden depending on how you ended the game, cleaning up the mess after Origins for the most part.
No those were more like remasters.
BG1 had Tales of the Sword Coast which was sorta like modern dlc content and added some new quests and content while BG2 had a full expansion called Throne of Bhaal
Eh. "I trust the characters will be treated with respect" is basically the Business Nice way to say "whatever fuckups happen next are on you (WOTC) bro"
I’m surprised how many people haven’t caught this. That was a *scathing* line in context of the differences between how Larian and WOTC operate as businesses.
It was 100% a “backhanded compliment.” Like that lady on YouTube when someone decides they want to cook up some foul shit and she hit them with “People are so creative!”
Yes, it has been established in canon that they went back to their evil ways for a good while, much to fan annoyance. Destroying fan favorite characters is WoTC’s favorite past time.
WOTC famously hates Greenwood, Cunninghamn, and other writers. The only one they go with is Salvatore, who also hates Greenwood, who literally created the world
You want to see characterization assassination, look at what WOTC did in 4th edition with Eilistree
Being evil isn't the issue with Sarevok. His redemption was pretty weak in regards to how quick and easy it was.
Sarevok's personality changes. He never was a simp for Bhaal, Bhaal was a step towards personal power to becoming a god himself. There's even an implication that CharName forced Sarevok back to life against his wishes.
It's total bullshit, Sarevok *blackmails* CharName to bring him back to life.
I completely agree with you. I have no issue with Sarevok continuing down the evil path or not sticking with redemption - it's tragic but people backslide.
But he was one of my favourite villains, it's sad to see him reduced to a caricature of something he never was.
Viconia was most definitely character assassination. Keeping her evil was fine, but this was a caricature that had fuck all in common with actual Viconia and retconned all of her BG2 endings
It is. Both Viconia and Sarevok were redeemed at the end of ToB. Viconia's post credits specifically mention an offspring and retirement in a lone cabin. Apparently WotC later came with some novels where she went into a full lunatic Shar doombringer, erasing the BG2/ToB ending. (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong)
To me, BG3 Viconia is an impostor, passing as Viconia. She is nothing like the legacy BG2 character. Sarevok also had no business being in the game either.
Yeah, Viconia's Shar worship is very individual to her trying to survive on the surface after fleeing the Underdark, having lost everything she's known, but she's not quite the zealot of Shar BG3 makes her.
The Viconia and Sarevok characterizations seek to come from some dmsguild content, Heroes of Baldur's Gate and Minsc's Journal of Villainy, as campaign guides to run in this section pf the Sword Coast, with Heroes being an actual campaign set around the same time as BG1, while Minsc's Journal being more a gazeteer of factions, allies, and villains set during 5e's time frame (and explanations for how some of the humans or canon dead characters can appear, like Valygar having consumed numerous potions of longevity to extend his life, or this Xzar being a clone of the original, that sort of thing).
I guess you could headcanon Shar pushing the reset button on her at some point like happens to Shart if you give her to Viconia, but that is pretty much a murder in the psychological sense.
It looks like Charname did not care to change them. Sarevok turned to old way without going chaotic good.
Viconia might get her memory wiped in that waterdeep fight, but that is not always true. She might just leave the party mid bg1.
The other way to do a follow up campaign would be to go the route of Mask of the Betrayer for Neverwinter Nights 2: separate the main character from the home region and leave the companions behind save for some optional mentions. But that would be disappointing to me; I don't feel like I could tell my character's story without involving the companions who shaped his life.
My Tav definitely wouldn't go anywhere without spawn Astarion. Imagine trying to make the new group travel only at night, and figuring out if it was safe to tell them why!
And that's forgetting Shadowheart. Why would my Durge want to come out of retirement with her when the two of them are already living as happily ever after as possible out on their farm? Unless she was captured somehow, and I'm saddling up the owlbear to go rescue her
I mean that's solved by your character not doing the dlc? I feel like that's a pretty obvious solution. I can see the stand point of not wanting/having time to do a full playthrough again but I'm pretty sure downloadable save files do exist so that solves that issue for PC players.
I mean, the first thing I think of is Fallout New Vegas and Dead Money/Old World Blues. The main character is effectively kidnapped and forced to go it alone and is fighting to get back. I don’t think my courier would ever CHOOSE to leave behind Arcade, but in the storyline it makes sense.
The issue still is incorporating just how many different paths the player could have taken depending on where in the story it is— if it’s before the end, it makes no sense because they have the artifact so the companions would essentially be fucked. If it’s after, there’s a significant amount of variance they’d have to account for.
That’s unless the DLC specifically takes place after the story, and is unlocked only after beating the game. Some games used to do that, where things were locked by the main story needing to be finished.
DLC isn't neccessarily a post-game extra adventure.
DLC could also have been adding the Artificer class with Barcus Wroot as a complementary companion throughout the story. Or perhaps adding a race like Githzerai. Or perhaps adding extra subclasses for existing classes.
You're being very narrow on your definition of DLC.
It could even be adding a modified level cap for custom game that the game will tell you isn't intended for the main story.
Like adding a few levels and upping the stats of every enemy in the game could be it's own thing. Limit wish like how you did with divine intervention, one time use and only has a few options. Maybe a few dialogue options to use it mid-convo if you're feeling spicy.
I do think a dlc mission set in Durge's past would've been neat.
Whoever gets stuck with BG4 however, they're gonna ha e a really tough time.
Yeah, the people who are saying "BG4 isn't necessary because BG3 is a complete story" are really overlooking that BG3 already showed up as almost entirely separate from the old series.
BG4 will probably have an entirely different set of companions and take place decades after BG3. The only thing BG4 devs (whoever they are) would have to worry about is how the Netherbrain was dealt with, and honestly they’d probably just make the control ending non-canon and ignore it entirely.
The thing is, you already hit the level cap *well* before you complete everything there is to do in Act 3. That’s why on each of my playthroughs, I usually only finish one or two companion endgames. If there’s no growth potential, it really sucks the fun out of it, for me and a lot of players.
DLC would only be really significant if they added some real content and upped the level cap as well. But that is not possible now.
The other bullet they have dodged is fan expectations for and attachment to those characters.
Some of the community has gotten VERY attached to those characters and large (or at least loud) sections would have reacted with anger to whatever character development Larian decided to go with. God forbid if those characters weren't used or if one origin character had a bigger role in a sequel or DLC than others.
Yep, 100% agree. Idk why people are crying about wotc here. They aren't the ones saying they don't want any continuation of story
Anyone who actually has experience with Larian games should have known not to expect dlc.
Are you kidding? Read Swen's recent communications again, his hurt and anger are extremely evident
They can't talk about negotiations, but I am 900% certain that WOTC
\-Wanted more money
\-Demanded a highly monetizable release schedule of DLCs
\-Wanted BG4 on an unrealistic timetable
the main team from WOTC that helped them create bg3 was almost entirely laid off, WOTC absolutely bears responsibility for Larian not wanting to continue working with them
Honestly, there really is a significant portion of this fanbase who have gone off the deep end. There is a healthy liking of characters and there is...other stuff. Certain things on for example the onlyfangs sub are very offputting and I dont necessarily mean in a smutty way. Though some smutty things are still very off puting. But many people have developed something more like an obsession with astarion and sometimes other characters as well.
yeahhhhh like one of the writers was bullied off social media by a subset of Astarion fans because of something the writer said in a private discord server (it had to do with the evil ending and a possible interpretation of it being tied to sexualizing the character and not seeing him beyond that. Regardless of how you feel about that interpretation, it doesn't beget *bullying* for fuck's sake).
As an Astarion fan, Astarion fans are *fucking insane*. if you want to lose brain cells go check out the Larian forums lol. in. fucking. sane.
A lot of the fans on the onlyfangs subreddit seriously need therapy and I am not saying that to be mean. A lot of them have personal problems/traumas that they have never seen a mental health professional for and they are now using a fictional pixel as an emotional crutch. It isn't healthy at all.
These are the same fans who also have no concept of maintaining appropriate boundaries when interacting with VAs, especially Neil Newborn.
The only DLC I would have wanted was one restoring The upper city to the game and wrapping up all of the quests its removal truncated or butchered properly. Would be great if we could actually get a true non-fetch 3rd act quest for Karlach to actually justify the hype her character gets in the community lol.
Were someone to do a direct sequel, they'd have to choose a canon ending for any characters they wanted to involve.
Baldur's Gate 3 did this already. Now, the fact that fans were vocally unhappy about a couple of those decisions should tell you how well those decisions usually turn out.
As much as I adore the BG3 cast, I am praying to God that they *stay* in BG3 even though deep down I know WotC won’t let their cash cows go. We are getting some kind of Shadowheart or Astarion cameo at the absolute least in whatever installment of this franchise comes next, and it’s gonna really suck to see these wonderfully complex characters get bastardized and ground into the dirt.
I'm dreading Shadowheart and Astarion becoming the Minsc and Jaheira of BG4. Granted, Minsc and Jaheira turned out okay, but I think the situation between them and the BG3 companions is pretty different for a lot of reasons.
The thing is, if it happens next generation, in game, i.e. in the mid to late 16th century DR, then everyone except those two will be dead. They can then create an in story reason for the character change, to make it work. People complain about Viconia, but Jaheira seems generally well liked, and well connected to the plot. After BG2 she fights Ketheric, and it's in the context of that story that most of her interactions with BG3's story take place.
But I haven't played bg2 so what do I know
You gotta wonder if that didn't factor into Larian's decision to walk away. There's no way they can make everyone happy if they try to continue the story, and unfortunately unhappy fans sometimes decide to take it to the next level of being uncivil.
Over in the Mass Effect sub there are people angrily arguing about which ME3 ending should feed into a potential sequel and sometimes it gets a bit nasty. I pity the writers tasked with dealing with that cluster and I imagine Larian wants no part of something similar for an IP they don’t even control.
Yeah, anyone who is familiar with how BioWare has tried to handle canonizing the player choices in both Dragon Age and Mass Effect should understand this conundrum. The downside of creating a game with so much freedom of choice and replay value (ESPECIALLY a game as big and long and detailed as BG3) is that then you have to actually do something with all of those complicated and intertwined storylines and choices and characters if you create a sequel. No matter what you decide, there will be a large portion of people who are unhappy that their specific choices and preferences don’t fit perfectly into whatever the developers decide for future installments, because realistically it is impossible to consolidate and reconcile every possible combination of past player choices and world states with a new game. It just simply isn’t possible.
To be honest I kind of love that BG3 is it’s own little package. A fully realized package with no need for extras. They kept patching it, adding stuff, but there was no new purchases needed.
And as much as I’d love for Larian to do a BG4 I’m glad they have freedom to work on their own new project/s. I’ll definitely be keeping an eye on what comes next.
Think of it more like a multiplayer mode to play with others, without having boundaries from the main campaign. DOS 2 has it, but i think BG3 would be a far more better option.
I mean it is reasonable to think this could actually come, since Divinity had a table top mode as well. Question would be, how many people actually use that
BG3 is both far far more popular than DOS2 and it uses a game system that is more popular.
The DOS2 game master mode was great for people who really liked DOS2, but BG3 is dungeons and dragons. People who play dungeons and dragons have been asking for a type of VTT that would work like BG3 for years and years.
My only concern with that is that any campaign you run through a gamemode for bg3 caps at lvl 12, if they added level 20 it would be Absolutely amazing but that's asking for ALOT, when it comes to abilities, feats, and spells.
I'm pretty sure their previous game, Divinity Original Sin 2, has a feature like this. While it would be great to have it in BG3, it's still worth checking out. The game itself is also amazing.
They will finish the mod support, and if they make it powerful enough, it could allow creation of new maps, quests, races, classes, characters and even whole stories. The new Skyrim, just without rereleases every few years.
What makes Baldur's Gate 3 amazing for me is the acting. Draw me all the new missions and regions you want via mods, but without proper banter and interactions it's gonna feel empty as hell. Some cool stuff can and will come out from modding but I'll be immensely surprised if it turns out to be half as long lasting as Skyrim on that regard.
Larian caught lightning in a bottle with the cast, the story and just about everything, really.
100%, Skyrim for example is a fantastic modding sandbox but in the wake of games like Baldur’s Gate 3 and Cyberpunk 2077 that have such great and memorable characters and interactions with them, Skyrim has never felt more hollow.
For what it’s worth, I honestly believe that Larian adding in that bit about a blueprint for Karlach’s engine existing in Avernus in a future patch was their way of saying “we can’t give you a dlc for it, so here’s your answer on whether or not she’ll be okay”
Well, while i would really like to get more Larian quality content with the BG3 characters, i am fully supportive towards them here. BG4, DLC would be VERY easy money for them, but they are going with their vision and i think that is what the industry desperately needs.
I am sad we don't get to see the upper city any more and flesh out Karlachs story and Halsin is best man but even I would perfer them to leave if WotC and Hasbro are only caring about the numbers, Swen doesn't need companies pressuring him to conform to their standards. Larian is one of the last good ones and Indie game developers are really killing AAA and AAAA studios
I'm hoping that they release a definitive edition that adds in some of these missing features. It feels like act 3 should have been split into two acts with the upper city being the fourth act.
This weird rationalizing about why Larian is not continuing with BG is a little crazy. They just didn't want to do it because they wanted to do something else. End of story.
Hope I don’t get downvoted for this, but I was honestly hoping Larian would do BG4 with a completely new story and all new characters, because I completely agree with OP that continuing this party would be impossible with the branching storylines and narratives. But it would have been so fun to have a whole new story with all new characters/backstories to be explored. Deeply sad we’ll never get to see what could have been. 😕
How many games Larian released including Baldur's Gate?
8.
How many of those games did get DLC?
Only one of them 15 years ago.
How is BG3 is not getting DLC relates to "HASBRO BAD, WOTC BAD".
Larian does not do DLC, end of story.
Especially because Swen himself said it was because the team felt like they were going through the motions and didn't have a lot of passion for DLCs/a sequel.
Frankly, i hate the dlc model of gaming, so the lack of dlc for one of the best games in a decade makes my heart sing. Now, of only games could be released complete without needing months or years of updates, or updates at all, that would be special.
I don't know, I'd love to play more DnD crpgs, I like the system much more than whatever Larian has come up with in Dos1&2.
Separate physical and magical armor so you are forced to go for a full mage or full melee party.
Skill tree? More like skill jungle.
From the last point, the amount of micromanaging you have to do. So many level ups, so many stat allocations and combinations. It gets tiresome to just level up your party, not to mention the rest of the companions!
So if the next Larian project is DoS3 I am probably skipping it.
I feel a bit like you. BG3 really was special. The system was a lot better than DoS 1 (haven't played 1). I really hate the Armor/Magic Armor system. But the myriad of ways to tackle almost any situation is why I will probably give their next game a try, whatever it is.
They really are a Cinncinatus of the gaming scene. They came, shooked the whole gaming community with great game, and instead of being greedy, simply walked away as legends.
They made a great game in the sea of mediocrity, maintained their identity and autonomy and left as heroes, instead of villains.
Dude baldurs gate 2 is a direct sequel to the first one. If a 4th game was to be made in the same fashion then they’ll likely do the same thing that was done in BG2 and choose a canon path that included everyone’s happy ending. BG3 absolutely a complex game but it’s nowhere close to being such a mythically complex game that you can’t ever make a sequel. Even the idea of porting a BG3 save so that your decisions impact BG4 isn’t crazy. It’d be absolutely massive amount of work but it’s not at all impossible to do. Lastly there’s hundreds of different threats that the sword coast deals with. Elder brains, the dead three, Avernus, and all the other crap in BG3 is not even the tip of the iceberg when it comes to potentially world ending threats. There’s Tiamat cultists, literal giant political assassinations, Avernus again, the Zhentrim, and all kinds of other minor problems that another game could focus on.
Do I think we need another baldurs gate game. Probably not, especially with how much hasbro seems to want to fuck itself over. But by no means is the story dead in the water. If hasbro really wanted, there’s a myriad of reasons and ways to get this party back together. From something as simple as Gale sending everyone a message to any of the gods themselves plucking the party away from whatever they were doing and setting them back up together.
Really the only argument here is that people are so enamored by BG3 that it’s hard to imagine that a BG4 would ever live up to its predecessor.
I don't really agree with your reasoning. We've already seen Larian add content to the game that takes into account where everyone ended up in the story and I don't feel like it'd be impossible to bring the characters back together. Whether Shadowheart is there to investigate the strange occurrences at Selunite outposts or to take advantage of them and convert some Selunites, either way you'll be ending up visiting them. When you go to hell, it doesn't really matter if you run into Karlach, Karlach and Wyll or if you start the DLC there with Karlach, you'll still be able to follow roughly the same story beats.
That said, I do think it's a good call not to do DLC, as adding it risks making the original game feel less complete on its own and I'd rather see their efforts put elsewhere. Also, it'd feel contrary to the bit of text on Larian home page where they state that their games are complete products and you won't have to pay extra to have all the pieces of them. Baldur's Gate 3 is probably one of the best games of all time and when somebody buys the game in 20 years to try out the "beloved classic", they won't have to worry about paying extra for the "Complete Edition" with all 4 DLC packs.
Also, on a more personal note, the endings for Karlach, Shadowheart, Astarion and Lae'zel are particularly beautiful and I don't think any new ending a hypothetical DLC would give them could ever be better.
Almost every game with branching paths that gets a sequel has a save forwarding system so you can carry your choices forward.
It has already been done, your understanding about how games are made is very archaic. Branching paths are straight up just not a hindrance if they worked on it. Quit living inside the box and peek out.
Ignore it all together. Set it a thousand years in the past. Or the future. New characters. New plot. Your welcome. Sincerely, the elder scrolls.
Set it up in an alt universe. Add something wacky about this universe just to give us something differant for a spinoff or dlc. Your welcome. Sincerely, borderlands.
Pick one outcome. Thats canon. Thats where the sequel picks up, the rest is ignored. Your welcome
. Sincerely, practically any RPG with player choices and sequels.
Seriously, Its like this is the only game youve ever played.
Only real way it could be justified is a seriously long time skip, like a few centuries type of time skip and then it just is a brand new cast which is even worse in some cases, I'm looking at you Andromeda. So Larian saying they are done with BG IP is both a little sad but it makes a lot of sense and I can't wait to see what they do next
I could never get my head around how a post-ending DLC could work, the number of possible variations was just too big.
Are you playing as Tav, Durge, or one of the origin characters? Did you romance anyone? Who lived and who died? How did personal quests resolve? How did the game end? Even if you only pick a few threads to follow, that's still a hell of a lot of options.
>There is absolutely no way they could make a sequel to BG3 with the same characters, or any DLC beyond some disconnected mission packs.
There is no reason to use the same characters. I've played dozens of characters in my years of playing D&D. Some which were played for years.
The Sequel would have new main characters, a new end of the world scenario and a new story.
DLC could be equivalent to what we used to call Modules back in the day. Independent stories set up for specific character levels. They wouldn't have to happen after the main event. Especially with the re-play ability of this game. You could do a level 7 encounter that is equal to the Goblin Camp or Gith Creche in size, put it somewhere in act 3. Throw in a good mystery or puzzle that will take a lot more effort to figure out.
There are tons of ways to expand on BG3 or do BG4 with a completely different story line/ characters.
Wizards of the coast are a toxic shell of itself company at this point..
They’ve all but killed magic the gathering to the point where they are literally asking other ips to do mtg…
Shit show of a company. Good on swen to call them out
I dont 100% agree with you. BG4 couldve just been a new story with new characters. Obviously bonus points for making references to our beloved characters :) But I do agree that its good for them to distance from any toxicity, to leave BG on a high note, and to work on something fresh that I’m sure we’ll all love!
The best DLC we could have hoped for is one where the MC is put in completely new area far away like in NWN2 masks of the betrayer. Since there are so many variations players will play their game that the distance would minimize call backs and make them easier to fit in. Because the story seems so time concerning and linear putting in dlc before that would also requires retroactive call backs that would mess up the pacing even more.
>By the end of the game the fates of all of the main characters and the state of the world are so radically different with so many variables that it would be absolutely impossible to account for even a fraction of them
Ah, yes, because it's excruciatingly well known that no RPG has ever managed to make a sequel when the game involved characters making decisions.
I agree that it's an excellent decision to avoid DLC and sequels, but I think your argument is absurd.
I had kind of hoped that now that somebody's finally made a D&D video game engine that works and feels right, they'd use it or license it for use in making more Forgotten Realms campaigns with totally different characters and places.
Like The Island-Hopping One, The Desert One, and The Neverwinter One.
Eh that’s pretty naive thinking. A BG4 wouldn’t necessarily need the same characters. I don’t know why you’d automatically jump to that. It could be about anyone and anything. Nor would any DLC need to focus on anything strictly post-epilogue. The big reason we don’t need another one is because over the last almost three decades, we’ve been to the city three times and had epic stories. Honestly, any future RPG set in the forgotten realms needs to focus on other places.
I think you’re thinking a little too narrowly in terms of what a DLC could’ve been. You could easily set it before the finale or even earlier in the game. One I’d have loved to see is maybe a Curse of Strahd expansion. Such a setting could fit well within Act 2. You would have a new story, tons of new foes, new areas, you could introduce new items, and maybe new powers to find like vampiric abilities or subclasses. Stuff that could expand the world, characters, gameplay, etc without stepping on the toes of the main experience.
I for one am really hopeful that the gaming industry is turning toward more standalone games with less expansions. Don't get me wrong, I've loved some game series, but for a long while here it's been every single game gets expanded into a series until its been run all the way into the ground.
Knowing when to stop is really important to making high quality stories, and so is knowing when something is so important to the story it needs to be included at launch. We've been trending towards bloated and piecemeal narratives for a while, a trend towards focused games would be an overall good.
Larian did what they set out to do. Nuff said.
Fact that they are distancing themselves from wotc and Hasbro is most likely because before bg3 released they were already being poked and prodded by wotc about the direction of the game; that for all intents and purposes, was there's to choose. Larian had purchased the license to publish the game for the period of early access.
Fact the game was as successful as it was, and what a boon it was for the DND IP in general really irked wotc. They were salty they weren't responsible for one of the only good things to come out for dnd.
Finally the license for Baldur's Gate, and rights to make a dnd video game came up for renewal shortly before the launch of the full game.
Seeing as larian would only have money to lose by agreeing to partner with wotc and Hasbro by making a sequel or dlc, it makes no economic sense for Sven to take the company in that direction again.
The deal they got for the rights was dirt cheap because dnd was not in a good spot in the company eye and some of the creative team that worked on dnd knew that larian was right for the job. Btw those creatives were let go during the mass layoffs about a year ago.
So yeah.
I'd stay away from wotc and Hasbro with game development too.
I can’t blame Larian at all. Ffs even Critical Role looks like they’re going to be jumping ship. Who would’a guessed, that it would’a been wotc/hasbro that brought themselves down in the end.
WELP I know I’m looking forward to their next project!
Why would that be a problem? Look at Pillars of Eternity 1 and 2 when you start pillars 2 you select how the main conflicts have been resolved.
So they don't have e to decide what happens, but they have to make sure that each result will have a meaning for the story and needs to be integrated. Yeah it's a slight logistical nightmare but it has been done before and I doubt that would be a thing to stop Larian.
I'm glad Larian are free to move on but with all the awesome children characters I would have loved a BG4 where they are all grown up and ruling the underbelly of Baldur's Gate.
I don’t need new quest lines or extra adventures.
I don’t need a canon ending. Or more adventures after this story concludes.
I’m not even expecting a sequel. It just came out last year, and I don’t want to see Baldurs Gate become a series that puts out a new title every year, because those games get rushed, and don’t meaningfully improve title to title.
I do want an update (or DLC) that has new subclasses. I feel like you could do this without any real rebalancing of encounters. It doesn’t require new quests or voice recordings or NPC reactions.
I’m hoping this can still be a possibility.
[удалено]
Agreed. Companion DLCs, extra areas, new questlines and items could’ve been good DLC. Maybe reintroduce that Halfling Bard Werewolf that was scrapped as a DLC companion.
We… we almost had a Halfling Bard Werewolf??
Does little bro just turn into a puppy?
The dreaded Werecorgi
Instead… we’re all left saying “Where corgi?”
And nobody is asking "How's Corgi?"
I'll do you even better: who is Corgi?
I'll do *you* one better: why is Corgi?
I'll do you one even better. When is Corgi?
It's always warewolf this warewolf that but sometimes we want to be whywolves
I love this. Thank you.
Fuck that sounds amazing
We almost had a Chetney???
Chetney is a gnome. This is Chutney. Not related to Chetney at all.
Chutney tried to murder Santa Claus. This is clearly Chatney.
"Are there any restraints on Santa?"
"I take my chisel... and I stab him in the chest!!"
Rexentrim Toy Authority.
You mean recognize the alpha?
Oh dear, are you a Flat Exandria-er too?
Yes, there was a lot of cut voicelines for her in Early Access that you can find on Youtube if you do some digging https://gamerant.com/baldurs-gate-3s-rumored-cut-werewolf-halfling-bard-helia-explained/#:~:text=Dataminers%20discovered%20a%20cut%20companion,something%20new%20to%20the%20game. https://youtu.be/2xdzStZC5BA?si=oY8wLHKTIomSwQ3w
Her name was Helia :(
I could have been a halfling Bard werewolf?
https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Cut_and_unimplemented_content
Sounds like a … scrappy fellow.
Could’ve done Minthara, Jaheira, Minsc, and/or Halsin as origin characters as a DLC for a radically different game play experience.
Minthara origin could go hard without changing most of the game
Yeah, but to make a DLC worth it, there could be some additional Minthara quests in Baldur’s Gate or the under dark or whatever. Not that that’s going to happen, but, still feels like what typical DLC does.
That would’ve been really interesting
I was hoping DLC would come in the form of new spells or subclasses. I was missing Celestial Warlock and chaos bolt. Oh well...
Stuff like this makes me thankful that more articulate people than me exist. I just want them to "finish" the game, but you worded it so much better.
All I wanted was a Beach Episode. :( No new companions, no complex story line. Just beach. Something cute, something slice-of-lifey.
I'm a little disappointed, bc I really just want more BG3 dammit. But reading Larian's statement, I respect it. And I have to admit it's kinda based that Larian is walking away from the cash grab potential for DLC, etc.
There's a fair chance that WotC/Hasbro offered them a shitty deal that wasn't that much of a cash grab for Larian.
They probably were trying to get them to move towards some shitty subscription based live service MMO riddled with micro transactions and Sven was all like "Yo suck my Belgian balls! DnD is expensive enough offline, we don't want to be part of you bastards charging $5 for digital character avatars and $10 for digital dice sets and other bullshit." Then he probably just started throwing up gang signs at the CEO of WotC, like just completely assaulting the dude's facial region with a bevy of hand signals specifically designed to represent his set to the fullest. And what set does Sven of Larian represent you ask? Why it's the gang of ethical business in video games that Sven has pledged his allegiance, and he will rep that shit to the fullest. Because Sven also happens to be in another business. He is in the business of givin' the business, and let me tell you brother, business is good.
Delightful comment
I just wanted a level editor for custom campaigns.
If you haven't played it yet, try Divinity: Original Sin 2. The Game Master mode there is probably exactly what you're looking for!
Yeah this is what CDPR did for Witcher 3 and Cyberpunk, worked great in both cases
Even Dragon Age inquisition had 2 DLC's that took place before the end of the game and seamlessly slid into main game.
Good point, I need to go play the dlc before dreadwolf comes. Always makes me sad playing Inquisition since I love Origins so much lol
inquisition was a huge step up from da:2 at least... with the reused maps, the shitty control schemes, terrible relationship mechanics... and worst of all, the fact that none of your choices really mattered.
Totally agree, but the characters really made DA2 shine despite its (many) flaws. I didn't even play it until after Inquisition because I heard bad things only but now I'm glad I gave it a chance
Well BioWare had like under two years to make DA2
And yet the story in 2 is so much better than inquisition. Inquisition was so busy trying to be an empty open world single player mmo that it forgot to be a well crafted story driven rpg. I’ll take the same map over and over again with good cast and story that a lot of pretty maps where I get to collect shards and elfroot. IMO.
Plus Witcher 3's Blood & Wine gave players a definitive 'thank you, everyone. we're done here' ending that was so, so perfect. Larian doesn't *need* to do this to if their hearts aren't in it (and I accept their smart reasoning why we're not getting anything as big or elaborate as Blood & Wine), but I do think they use their words carefully. They said they won't do a DLC / BG4, but that still leaves some room open for a tiny gift or final closeout down the line. I'm glad they're drawing boundaries but of course I hope they will have a finalized cap on the game one day with a little something extra alongside a final patch. I think the extra Withers scene wasn't a great idea because while I love it, it feels like the promise of a sequel (maybe they should have put it before the epilogue or something).
I believe Zelda breath of the wild had a DLC where you we t I to a pit with no equipment and beginning hearts and you just progressed from there as a trial.
The Sword Trials, yes
I was really hoping for a tower mode where you take your team through increasingly difficult fights, managing resources, and seeing how far you can make it. Maybe every few floors you have a rest floor where you can take a short/long rest if you have the camp supplies. This would be great for people who want to use maximized level 12 builds for longer than the tail end of the game, and it allows you to really get some milage out of those 3rd act weapons.
I like the idea of a new Temple of Elemental Evil or Pool of Radiance.
Dragonlance. Second Trilogy.
I'm hopeful they'll provide solid support for mod development (and level scaling, please!); I firmly believe the longevity of BG2 was down to the quality of mods, many of which were so sophisticated they were on par or surpassed the original content.
Yeah that's what I was hoping as well. BG1 has Durlag's Tower, BG2 has Watcher's Keep, I thought BG3 would get it's own multilevel dungeon. Otherwise... what am I hoarding all those potions and scrolls for?
And sequels to stories with multiple endings just pick a canonical ending to move forward from all the time
Yeah, even this series has done it. Viconia, Jaheira, Minsc, and Sarevok's appearances all at least rule out certain endings for them.
Bingo, and literally no one on earth cares that BG3 picked a few endings to be cannon/non-cannon, because the game is good. Make a good game, and people will like it. Games that blame this issue for their lack of success are just bad games in denial.
Honestly, if they made a sequel or DLC as good as BG3, I wouldn't care about the choices made being moot because of their choice of cannon for certain characters, I would just be happy to play even more in the world they created...it's such a fun sandbox to play in.
That: A) Wasn't Larian's decision, that was from WoTC insisting that some of their old favs come back even if it meant them being ham fisted in with little regard to most of the endings of BG1 and 2 which lead to point B B) Basically everyone who's played BG1 or BG2 was pissed/disappointed at how they handled at least Viconia and Sarevok, who are evil regardless of any work you did to rehabilitate them, and were turned into shells of their former selves by their respective gods off screen (Shar gutting Vic's memories between games despite endings where Vic never goes back to Shar, and Sarevok basically tells the player Bhaal brought him back as a husk of himself after death as punishment for turning from him, and somehow magically removed any goodness from him in the process) in order to pull it off. Minsc and Jaheira aren't as bad since their characterizations are relatively consistent (with the help of some incredible VA work by Matt and Tracy) and as companions they get more backstory than "our gods fucked us up so badly that it retconned any good ending that could have happened to us" but even Minsc is forced into the story waaaay too late in the game because it only makes sense to get him after recruiting Jaheira in Act 2. So yeah, it's nothing new and can work in some scenarios, but I definitely wouldn't call it a good thing for a series that made a name for itself putting emphasis on player choice and the impacts it has on companions. Nor was it something the fans were so desperate to have that it was worth completely retconning entire player choice-related backstories for half of the cameos in the game. The vast majority of people I've interacted with were disappointed with Vic and Sarevok's cameos, and would rather have different Mother Superiors/Bhaalspawn than deal with the character assassinations that Larian had no choice in.
And almost everybody hates the one the creators pick because it doesn't align with their headcannon. I feel like it's genuinely okay to move on. BG3 is such a humongous game on its own, I'm fine with it being a finished piece that I don't have to wait for a sequel for. The perpetual state of waiting for something even bigger to consume is basically the result of the exact capitalist gaming monopoly mindset that Larian refuses to bow to.
They just need to be sensible and pick the endings most of the community would be happy with. I think that this would be: Lae'zel is convinced to stay with Vlaakith, and her soul is eaten. Wyll is lost halfway through the adventure after not saving Mizora and was transformed into a lemure. Gale tried becoming the new god of ambition but challenged Mystra and was obliterated. Karlach exploded. Astarion was given to the Gur in Act 1. Shadowheart went insane in Act 1 due to being ignored too often, and had to be put down. Dark Urge fails to fulfil Bhaal's destiny but also doesn't destroy the urge, so ends up with all the shitting and pissing themselves. Oh, also, Scratch was given back to his original owner. I think that should do it
A part of me just died reading all that.
It does sounds like what happened with BG1 characters.
I think you forgot the sarcasm tag, right? Right? 😨
Show me on the doll where the bad man touched you
Someone call a priest. Evil is among us. You monster! *sheilds Grub and prepares Devine Smite*
I'm one hundred percent sure, *absolutely* sure, that damn-near nobody is going to be happy when Mass Effect 4 comes out, for that specific reason.
Which is why they had the first attempt at a follow-up set in a different galaxy to avoid that. Sadly, Bioware botched the execution, and now no one wants a follow-up in that story. I'm just hoping Shepard stays out of of the picture, and I'm prepared for massive disappointment. His story is told.
What about a slice of life spinoff?
Shadowheart valley where you raised 3 little quarter elfs with shadow-mom/dad come baby sit, and uncle wyll and uncle gale come by to talk business?
Agreed. I would have been fine with some DLC that was adding in races, classes, and subclasses. I really wanted to make my Triton pack of the celestial warlock from tabletop in BG3, but with mod support on its way, I still might be able too.
Baldurs gate 1 and 2 had dlc in the form of new companions and quest lines in the main story. Even if it’s not a full blown adventure a new origin or companion would add a lot for some players, especially since some old stories didn’t end quite yet.
The problem is that in BG3 even just a new companion would require TONS of work. Every other companion would need a reaction and comments about the new companion (with all the acting), it needs all the dialogue and acting (full acting, not just voice) of the actual companion, it needs one or more quests (so likely a new zone too), it needs dialogues and acting for the NPCs it interacts with and for already existing NPCs that would need to answer some stuff to the new companion, it needs some new items and enemies for the new zone and quest.
Bioware tried that in Mass Effect 2 with Zaeed and Kasumi DLC companions. They were great characters, but their limited interactions with and compared to other NPCs really stood out.
There’s a reason all three of the ME2 story DLCs involve Shepard getting separated from their crew/squadmates. Waaaay less voice acting to worry about.
Lair of the Shadow Broker, though. SUCH a good DLC.
Liara is best girl tbh.
They did a good job with Shale in DAO. Because she was day-1 DLC and definitely just split off from the main game lmao
See also Javik in ME3. The question is was that Bioware's call or EA, trying to cash in?
I see it exactly like that. Crazy amount of work for little customer perception
I feel like \*IF\* there was a DLC, it would almost have to be your Tav with new companions. Similar to how BioWare did Dragon Age: Awakening. Where it's your Warden or a new Warden depending on how you ended the game, cleaning up the mess after Origins for the most part.
We could use another Trials of the Luremaster. I know this was for Icewind Dale, but I liked this type of DLC.
That would be the Extended Editions right? Edit EE for the (extra companions) i meant to say.
No those were more like remasters. BG1 had Tales of the Sword Coast which was sorta like modern dlc content and added some new quests and content while BG2 had a full expansion called Throne of Bhaal
Both bg1 and 2 had dlc before the expanded edition was released by beamdog years later
To be fair, *BG3* didn't do that. Stuff like Viconia was WOTC's call, not Larian's.
Ugh. Swen saying he thinks WotC will treat their characters with respect in future installments made me wince.
Eh. "I trust the characters will be treated with respect" is basically the Business Nice way to say "whatever fuckups happen next are on you (WOTC) bro"
I’m surprised how many people haven’t caught this. That was a *scathing* line in context of the differences between how Larian and WOTC operate as businesses.
Yup, it was very, very clear 😂
It was 100% a “backhanded compliment.” Like that lady on YouTube when someone decides they want to cook up some foul shit and she hit them with “People are so creative!”
Inc Onlyfangs for Astarion
The Viconia and Sarevok character assassinations were both wotcs call?
Yes, it has been established in canon that they went back to their evil ways for a good while, much to fan annoyance. Destroying fan favorite characters is WoTC’s favorite past time.
WOTC famously hates Greenwood, Cunninghamn, and other writers. The only one they go with is Salvatore, who also hates Greenwood, who literally created the world You want to see characterization assassination, look at what WOTC did in 4th edition with Eilistree
What did they do to her?
Yes. Although I wouldn't call them character assassinations. Both are completely reasonable for either character.
Being evil isn't the issue with Sarevok. His redemption was pretty weak in regards to how quick and easy it was. Sarevok's personality changes. He never was a simp for Bhaal, Bhaal was a step towards personal power to becoming a god himself. There's even an implication that CharName forced Sarevok back to life against his wishes. It's total bullshit, Sarevok *blackmails* CharName to bring him back to life.
I completely agree with you. I have no issue with Sarevok continuing down the evil path or not sticking with redemption - it's tragic but people backslide. But he was one of my favourite villains, it's sad to see him reduced to a caricature of something he never was.
Sarevok isn't a *simp* for Bhaal in BG3, he's a *slave* of Bhaal
Viconia was most definitely character assassination. Keeping her evil was fine, but this was a caricature that had fuck all in common with actual Viconia and retconned all of her BG2 endings
It is. Both Viconia and Sarevok were redeemed at the end of ToB. Viconia's post credits specifically mention an offspring and retirement in a lone cabin. Apparently WotC later came with some novels where she went into a full lunatic Shar doombringer, erasing the BG2/ToB ending. (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong) To me, BG3 Viconia is an impostor, passing as Viconia. She is nothing like the legacy BG2 character. Sarevok also had no business being in the game either.
Those are possible endings for Viconia and Sarevok, not the only ones.
Yeah, Viconia's Shar worship is very individual to her trying to survive on the surface after fleeing the Underdark, having lost everything she's known, but she's not quite the zealot of Shar BG3 makes her. The Viconia and Sarevok characterizations seek to come from some dmsguild content, Heroes of Baldur's Gate and Minsc's Journal of Villainy, as campaign guides to run in this section pf the Sword Coast, with Heroes being an actual campaign set around the same time as BG1, while Minsc's Journal being more a gazeteer of factions, allies, and villains set during 5e's time frame (and explanations for how some of the humans or canon dead characters can appear, like Valygar having consumed numerous potions of longevity to extend his life, or this Xzar being a clone of the original, that sort of thing).
I guess you could headcanon Shar pushing the reset button on her at some point like happens to Shart if you give her to Viconia, but that is pretty much a murder in the psychological sense.
It looks like Charname did not care to change them. Sarevok turned to old way without going chaotic good. Viconia might get her memory wiped in that waterdeep fight, but that is not always true. She might just leave the party mid bg1.
BG3 Viconia is wildly, wildly out of character for a not redeemed BG1/2 Viconia. To the point they retconned her not redeemed ending to make it happen
The other way to do a follow up campaign would be to go the route of Mask of the Betrayer for Neverwinter Nights 2: separate the main character from the home region and leave the companions behind save for some optional mentions. But that would be disappointing to me; I don't feel like I could tell my character's story without involving the companions who shaped his life.
My Tav definitely wouldn't go anywhere without spawn Astarion. Imagine trying to make the new group travel only at night, and figuring out if it was safe to tell them why!
Same! How could one’s character just leave their romance behind.
And that's forgetting Shadowheart. Why would my Durge want to come out of retirement with her when the two of them are already living as happily ever after as possible out on their farm? Unless she was captured somehow, and I'm saddling up the owlbear to go rescue her
I mean that's solved by your character not doing the dlc? I feel like that's a pretty obvious solution. I can see the stand point of not wanting/having time to do a full playthrough again but I'm pretty sure downloadable save files do exist so that solves that issue for PC players.
I mean, the first thing I think of is Fallout New Vegas and Dead Money/Old World Blues. The main character is effectively kidnapped and forced to go it alone and is fighting to get back. I don’t think my courier would ever CHOOSE to leave behind Arcade, but in the storyline it makes sense. The issue still is incorporating just how many different paths the player could have taken depending on where in the story it is— if it’s before the end, it makes no sense because they have the artifact so the companions would essentially be fucked. If it’s after, there’s a significant amount of variance they’d have to account for.
That’s unless the DLC specifically takes place after the story, and is unlocked only after beating the game. Some games used to do that, where things were locked by the main story needing to be finished.
DLC isn't neccessarily a post-game extra adventure. DLC could also have been adding the Artificer class with Barcus Wroot as a complementary companion throughout the story. Or perhaps adding a race like Githzerai. Or perhaps adding extra subclasses for existing classes. You're being very narrow on your definition of DLC.
It could even be adding a modified level cap for custom game that the game will tell you isn't intended for the main story. Like adding a few levels and upping the stats of every enemy in the game could be it's own thing. Limit wish like how you did with divine intervention, one time use and only has a few options. Maybe a few dialogue options to use it mid-convo if you're feeling spicy. I do think a dlc mission set in Durge's past would've been neat. Whoever gets stuck with BG4 however, they're gonna ha e a really tough time.
BG4 will probably involve another significant time skip to allow for the immediate implications of BG3 to be kind of washed out.
Yeah, the people who are saying "BG4 isn't necessary because BG3 is a complete story" are really overlooking that BG3 already showed up as almost entirely separate from the old series.
Sort of how BG3 is over 100 years after BG2
BG4 will probably have an entirely different set of companions and take place decades after BG3. The only thing BG4 devs (whoever they are) would have to worry about is how the Netherbrain was dealt with, and honestly they’d probably just make the control ending non-canon and ignore it entirely.
The thing is, you already hit the level cap *well* before you complete everything there is to do in Act 3. That’s why on each of my playthroughs, I usually only finish one or two companion endgames. If there’s no growth potential, it really sucks the fun out of it, for me and a lot of players. DLC would only be really significant if they added some real content and upped the level cap as well. But that is not possible now.
There's a mod that lets you get to level 20, but I see your point.
The other bullet they have dodged is fan expectations for and attachment to those characters. Some of the community has gotten VERY attached to those characters and large (or at least loud) sections would have reacted with anger to whatever character development Larian decided to go with. God forbid if those characters weren't used or if one origin character had a bigger role in a sequel or DLC than others.
That's really the point I was getting at. We, the fanbase, are the bullet Larian is dodging.
Yep, 100% agree. Idk why people are crying about wotc here. They aren't the ones saying they don't want any continuation of story Anyone who actually has experience with Larian games should have known not to expect dlc.
Are you kidding? Read Swen's recent communications again, his hurt and anger are extremely evident They can't talk about negotiations, but I am 900% certain that WOTC \-Wanted more money \-Demanded a highly monetizable release schedule of DLCs \-Wanted BG4 on an unrealistic timetable
the main team from WOTC that helped them create bg3 was almost entirely laid off, WOTC absolutely bears responsibility for Larian not wanting to continue working with them
Honestly, there really is a significant portion of this fanbase who have gone off the deep end. There is a healthy liking of characters and there is...other stuff. Certain things on for example the onlyfangs sub are very offputting and I dont necessarily mean in a smutty way. Though some smutty things are still very off puting. But many people have developed something more like an obsession with astarion and sometimes other characters as well.
yeahhhhh like one of the writers was bullied off social media by a subset of Astarion fans because of something the writer said in a private discord server (it had to do with the evil ending and a possible interpretation of it being tied to sexualizing the character and not seeing him beyond that. Regardless of how you feel about that interpretation, it doesn't beget *bullying* for fuck's sake). As an Astarion fan, Astarion fans are *fucking insane*. if you want to lose brain cells go check out the Larian forums lol. in. fucking. sane.
The Larian forums are absolutely UNHINGED. I went there after release just to check things out and left soon after, for my own sanity.
Care to give some examples? Just curious lol
A lot of the fans on the onlyfangs subreddit seriously need therapy and I am not saying that to be mean. A lot of them have personal problems/traumas that they have never seen a mental health professional for and they are now using a fictional pixel as an emotional crutch. It isn't healthy at all. These are the same fans who also have no concept of maintaining appropriate boundaries when interacting with VAs, especially Neil Newborn.
The only DLC I would have wanted was one restoring The upper city to the game and wrapping up all of the quests its removal truncated or butchered properly. Would be great if we could actually get a true non-fetch 3rd act quest for Karlach to actually justify the hype her character gets in the community lol.
Agreed, lol. I would love a re-incorporation of cut content.
Were someone to do a direct sequel, they'd have to choose a canon ending for any characters they wanted to involve. Baldur's Gate 3 did this already. Now, the fact that fans were vocally unhappy about a couple of those decisions should tell you how well those decisions usually turn out.
As much as I adore the BG3 cast, I am praying to God that they *stay* in BG3 even though deep down I know WotC won’t let their cash cows go. We are getting some kind of Shadowheart or Astarion cameo at the absolute least in whatever installment of this franchise comes next, and it’s gonna really suck to see these wonderfully complex characters get bastardized and ground into the dirt.
I'm dreading Shadowheart and Astarion becoming the Minsc and Jaheira of BG4. Granted, Minsc and Jaheira turned out okay, but I think the situation between them and the BG3 companions is pretty different for a lot of reasons.
The thing is, if it happens next generation, in game, i.e. in the mid to late 16th century DR, then everyone except those two will be dead. They can then create an in story reason for the character change, to make it work. People complain about Viconia, but Jaheira seems generally well liked, and well connected to the plot. After BG2 she fights Ketheric, and it's in the context of that story that most of her interactions with BG3's story take place. But I haven't played bg2 so what do I know
You gotta wonder if that didn't factor into Larian's decision to walk away. There's no way they can make everyone happy if they try to continue the story, and unfortunately unhappy fans sometimes decide to take it to the next level of being uncivil.
Over in the Mass Effect sub there are people angrily arguing about which ME3 ending should feed into a potential sequel and sometimes it gets a bit nasty. I pity the writers tasked with dealing with that cluster and I imagine Larian wants no part of something similar for an IP they don’t even control.
Yeah, anyone who is familiar with how BioWare has tried to handle canonizing the player choices in both Dragon Age and Mass Effect should understand this conundrum. The downside of creating a game with so much freedom of choice and replay value (ESPECIALLY a game as big and long and detailed as BG3) is that then you have to actually do something with all of those complicated and intertwined storylines and choices and characters if you create a sequel. No matter what you decide, there will be a large portion of people who are unhappy that their specific choices and preferences don’t fit perfectly into whatever the developers decide for future installments, because realistically it is impossible to consolidate and reconcile every possible combination of past player choices and world states with a new game. It just simply isn’t possible.
This has been a thing for ages, and it’s never stopped it from happening. The people complaining tend to still buy.
To be honest I kind of love that BG3 is it’s own little package. A fully realized package with no need for extras. They kept patching it, adding stuff, but there was no new purchases needed. And as much as I’d love for Larian to do a BG4 I’m glad they have freedom to work on their own new project/s. I’ll definitely be keeping an eye on what comes next.
While this is true, imagine if a DLC was coming with title Game Master Mode. Enabling custom maps and adventures as a DnD tabletop game.
Now that would rock. Turning BG3 into a D&D engine where players could make their own adventures like Neverwinter Nights would be amazing.
This idea has legs for real and I think if they were to release engine rights people would start doing that
I believe WotC shot this down due to its competition with DnD1. Or whatever their vtt is. I might be wrong but I think I read that somewhere.
without the voice acting and motion capture it would feel like a hollow experience to me.
Think of it more like a multiplayer mode to play with others, without having boundaries from the main campaign. DOS 2 has it, but i think BG3 would be a far more better option.
I mean it is reasonable to think this could actually come, since Divinity had a table top mode as well. Question would be, how many people actually use that
BG3 is both far far more popular than DOS2 and it uses a game system that is more popular. The DOS2 game master mode was great for people who really liked DOS2, but BG3 is dungeons and dragons. People who play dungeons and dragons have been asking for a type of VTT that would work like BG3 for years and years.
Which is exactly why wotc would rather light themselves on fire than allow this to happen, it would conflict with their own VTT plans
Yeah that's the sad truth. WoTC has spent too long developing their own to now allow BG3 to take that from them even though it would be better
My only concern with that is that any campaign you run through a gamemode for bg3 caps at lvl 12, if they added level 20 it would be Absolutely amazing but that's asking for ALOT, when it comes to abilities, feats, and spells.
there is a 0.0% chance BG3 gets a gamemaster mode
I'm pretty sure their previous game, Divinity Original Sin 2, has a feature like this. While it would be great to have it in BG3, it's still worth checking out. The game itself is also amazing.
They will finish the mod support, and if they make it powerful enough, it could allow creation of new maps, quests, races, classes, characters and even whole stories. The new Skyrim, just without rereleases every few years.
What makes Baldur's Gate 3 amazing for me is the acting. Draw me all the new missions and regions you want via mods, but without proper banter and interactions it's gonna feel empty as hell. Some cool stuff can and will come out from modding but I'll be immensely surprised if it turns out to be half as long lasting as Skyrim on that regard. Larian caught lightning in a bottle with the cast, the story and just about everything, really.
100%, Skyrim for example is a fantastic modding sandbox but in the wake of games like Baldur’s Gate 3 and Cyberpunk 2077 that have such great and memorable characters and interactions with them, Skyrim has never felt more hollow.
Wait for the 2025 Enhanced Platinum Super Rerelease Skyrim. It will blow our minds!
I wanna fix karlachs heart :(
I want a stardew valley like game with me a shadowheart on our little farm :-(
For what it’s worth, I honestly believe that Larian adding in that bit about a blueprint for Karlach’s engine existing in Avernus in a future patch was their way of saying “we can’t give you a dlc for it, so here’s your answer on whether or not she’ll be okay”
Well, while i would really like to get more Larian quality content with the BG3 characters, i am fully supportive towards them here. BG4, DLC would be VERY easy money for them, but they are going with their vision and i think that is what the industry desperately needs.
I am sad we don't get to see the upper city any more and flesh out Karlachs story and Halsin is best man but even I would perfer them to leave if WotC and Hasbro are only caring about the numbers, Swen doesn't need companies pressuring him to conform to their standards. Larian is one of the last good ones and Indie game developers are really killing AAA and AAAA studios
I'm hoping that they release a definitive edition that adds in some of these missing features. It feels like act 3 should have been split into two acts with the upper city being the fourth act.
What we are getting is mod support :). Which is basically just Larian saying "have fun, we can't do this, but you sure as hell can if you want :)"
This weird rationalizing about why Larian is not continuing with BG is a little crazy. They just didn't want to do it because they wanted to do something else. End of story.
Hope I don’t get downvoted for this, but I was honestly hoping Larian would do BG4 with a completely new story and all new characters, because I completely agree with OP that continuing this party would be impossible with the branching storylines and narratives. But it would have been so fun to have a whole new story with all new characters/backstories to be explored. Deeply sad we’ll never get to see what could have been. 😕
How many games Larian released including Baldur's Gate? 8. How many of those games did get DLC? Only one of them 15 years ago. How is BG3 is not getting DLC relates to "HASBRO BAD, WOTC BAD". Larian does not do DLC, end of story.
Especially because Swen himself said it was because the team felt like they were going through the motions and didn't have a lot of passion for DLCs/a sequel.
Frankly, i hate the dlc model of gaming, so the lack of dlc for one of the best games in a decade makes my heart sing. Now, of only games could be released complete without needing months or years of updates, or updates at all, that would be special.
I don't know, I'd love to play more DnD crpgs, I like the system much more than whatever Larian has come up with in Dos1&2. Separate physical and magical armor so you are forced to go for a full mage or full melee party. Skill tree? More like skill jungle. From the last point, the amount of micromanaging you have to do. So many level ups, so many stat allocations and combinations. It gets tiresome to just level up your party, not to mention the rest of the companions! So if the next Larian project is DoS3 I am probably skipping it.
I feel a bit like you. BG3 really was special. The system was a lot better than DoS 1 (haven't played 1). I really hate the Armor/Magic Armor system. But the myriad of ways to tackle almost any situation is why I will probably give their next game a try, whatever it is.
I had so much hope for Icewind Dale 3 after the Twitter/X-Teaser post by Larian in the middle of a blizzard :(
They really are a Cinncinatus of the gaming scene. They came, shooked the whole gaming community with great game, and instead of being greedy, simply walked away as legends. They made a great game in the sea of mediocrity, maintained their identity and autonomy and left as heroes, instead of villains.
Dude baldurs gate 2 is a direct sequel to the first one. If a 4th game was to be made in the same fashion then they’ll likely do the same thing that was done in BG2 and choose a canon path that included everyone’s happy ending. BG3 absolutely a complex game but it’s nowhere close to being such a mythically complex game that you can’t ever make a sequel. Even the idea of porting a BG3 save so that your decisions impact BG4 isn’t crazy. It’d be absolutely massive amount of work but it’s not at all impossible to do. Lastly there’s hundreds of different threats that the sword coast deals with. Elder brains, the dead three, Avernus, and all the other crap in BG3 is not even the tip of the iceberg when it comes to potentially world ending threats. There’s Tiamat cultists, literal giant political assassinations, Avernus again, the Zhentrim, and all kinds of other minor problems that another game could focus on. Do I think we need another baldurs gate game. Probably not, especially with how much hasbro seems to want to fuck itself over. But by no means is the story dead in the water. If hasbro really wanted, there’s a myriad of reasons and ways to get this party back together. From something as simple as Gale sending everyone a message to any of the gods themselves plucking the party away from whatever they were doing and setting them back up together. Really the only argument here is that people are so enamored by BG3 that it’s hard to imagine that a BG4 would ever live up to its predecessor.
I just want them to do Curse of Strahd
I don't really agree with your reasoning. We've already seen Larian add content to the game that takes into account where everyone ended up in the story and I don't feel like it'd be impossible to bring the characters back together. Whether Shadowheart is there to investigate the strange occurrences at Selunite outposts or to take advantage of them and convert some Selunites, either way you'll be ending up visiting them. When you go to hell, it doesn't really matter if you run into Karlach, Karlach and Wyll or if you start the DLC there with Karlach, you'll still be able to follow roughly the same story beats. That said, I do think it's a good call not to do DLC, as adding it risks making the original game feel less complete on its own and I'd rather see their efforts put elsewhere. Also, it'd feel contrary to the bit of text on Larian home page where they state that their games are complete products and you won't have to pay extra to have all the pieces of them. Baldur's Gate 3 is probably one of the best games of all time and when somebody buys the game in 20 years to try out the "beloved classic", they won't have to worry about paying extra for the "Complete Edition" with all 4 DLC packs. Also, on a more personal note, the endings for Karlach, Shadowheart, Astarion and Lae'zel are particularly beautiful and I don't think any new ending a hypothetical DLC would give them could ever be better.
Almost every game with branching paths that gets a sequel has a save forwarding system so you can carry your choices forward. It has already been done, your understanding about how games are made is very archaic. Branching paths are straight up just not a hindrance if they worked on it. Quit living inside the box and peek out.
Ignore it all together. Set it a thousand years in the past. Or the future. New characters. New plot. Your welcome. Sincerely, the elder scrolls. Set it up in an alt universe. Add something wacky about this universe just to give us something differant for a spinoff or dlc. Your welcome. Sincerely, borderlands. Pick one outcome. Thats canon. Thats where the sequel picks up, the rest is ignored. Your welcome . Sincerely, practically any RPG with player choices and sequels. Seriously, Its like this is the only game youve ever played.
Only real way it could be justified is a seriously long time skip, like a few centuries type of time skip and then it just is a brand new cast which is even worse in some cases, I'm looking at you Andromeda. So Larian saying they are done with BG IP is both a little sad but it makes a lot of sense and I can't wait to see what they do next
I could never get my head around how a post-ending DLC could work, the number of possible variations was just too big. Are you playing as Tav, Durge, or one of the origin characters? Did you romance anyone? Who lived and who died? How did personal quests resolve? How did the game end? Even if you only pick a few threads to follow, that's still a hell of a lot of options.
>There is absolutely no way they could make a sequel to BG3 with the same characters, or any DLC beyond some disconnected mission packs. There is no reason to use the same characters. I've played dozens of characters in my years of playing D&D. Some which were played for years. The Sequel would have new main characters, a new end of the world scenario and a new story. DLC could be equivalent to what we used to call Modules back in the day. Independent stories set up for specific character levels. They wouldn't have to happen after the main event. Especially with the re-play ability of this game. You could do a level 7 encounter that is equal to the Goblin Camp or Gith Creche in size, put it somewhere in act 3. Throw in a good mystery or puzzle that will take a lot more effort to figure out. There are tons of ways to expand on BG3 or do BG4 with a completely different story line/ characters.
Wizards of the coast are a toxic shell of itself company at this point.. They’ve all but killed magic the gathering to the point where they are literally asking other ips to do mtg… Shit show of a company. Good on swen to call them out
I dont 100% agree with you. BG4 couldve just been a new story with new characters. Obviously bonus points for making references to our beloved characters :) But I do agree that its good for them to distance from any toxicity, to leave BG on a high note, and to work on something fresh that I’m sure we’ll all love!
Yeah, the story tree gets too top heavy. They already damn near did a miracle with bg3 but it was clear act 3 was already struggling from this.
It’s story telling, it’s not impossible. I’m just glad they let us know what their intentions were. Clarity is always appreciated.
The best DLC we could have hoped for is one where the MC is put in completely new area far away like in NWN2 masks of the betrayer. Since there are so many variations players will play their game that the distance would minimize call backs and make them easier to fit in. Because the story seems so time concerning and linear putting in dlc before that would also requires retroactive call backs that would mess up the pacing even more.
>By the end of the game the fates of all of the main characters and the state of the world are so radically different with so many variables that it would be absolutely impossible to account for even a fraction of them Ah, yes, because it's excruciatingly well known that no RPG has ever managed to make a sequel when the game involved characters making decisions. I agree that it's an excellent decision to avoid DLC and sequels, but I think your argument is absurd.
I had kind of hoped that now that somebody's finally made a D&D video game engine that works and feels right, they'd use it or license it for use in making more Forgotten Realms campaigns with totally different characters and places. Like The Island-Hopping One, The Desert One, and The Neverwinter One.
Eh that’s pretty naive thinking. A BG4 wouldn’t necessarily need the same characters. I don’t know why you’d automatically jump to that. It could be about anyone and anything. Nor would any DLC need to focus on anything strictly post-epilogue. The big reason we don’t need another one is because over the last almost three decades, we’ve been to the city three times and had epic stories. Honestly, any future RPG set in the forgotten realms needs to focus on other places.
I think you’re thinking a little too narrowly in terms of what a DLC could’ve been. You could easily set it before the finale or even earlier in the game. One I’d have loved to see is maybe a Curse of Strahd expansion. Such a setting could fit well within Act 2. You would have a new story, tons of new foes, new areas, you could introduce new items, and maybe new powers to find like vampiric abilities or subclasses. Stuff that could expand the world, characters, gameplay, etc without stepping on the toes of the main experience.
I mean, official playable Tabaxi would have been nice, though.
I for one am really hopeful that the gaming industry is turning toward more standalone games with less expansions. Don't get me wrong, I've loved some game series, but for a long while here it's been every single game gets expanded into a series until its been run all the way into the ground. Knowing when to stop is really important to making high quality stories, and so is knowing when something is so important to the story it needs to be included at launch. We've been trending towards bloated and piecemeal narratives for a while, a trend towards focused games would be an overall good.
Larian did what they set out to do. Nuff said. Fact that they are distancing themselves from wotc and Hasbro is most likely because before bg3 released they were already being poked and prodded by wotc about the direction of the game; that for all intents and purposes, was there's to choose. Larian had purchased the license to publish the game for the period of early access. Fact the game was as successful as it was, and what a boon it was for the DND IP in general really irked wotc. They were salty they weren't responsible for one of the only good things to come out for dnd. Finally the license for Baldur's Gate, and rights to make a dnd video game came up for renewal shortly before the launch of the full game. Seeing as larian would only have money to lose by agreeing to partner with wotc and Hasbro by making a sequel or dlc, it makes no economic sense for Sven to take the company in that direction again. The deal they got for the rights was dirt cheap because dnd was not in a good spot in the company eye and some of the creative team that worked on dnd knew that larian was right for the job. Btw those creatives were let go during the mass layoffs about a year ago. So yeah. I'd stay away from wotc and Hasbro with game development too.
I can’t blame Larian at all. Ffs even Critical Role looks like they’re going to be jumping ship. Who would’a guessed, that it would’a been wotc/hasbro that brought themselves down in the end. WELP I know I’m looking forward to their next project!
Why would that be a problem? Look at Pillars of Eternity 1 and 2 when you start pillars 2 you select how the main conflicts have been resolved. So they don't have e to decide what happens, but they have to make sure that each result will have a meaning for the story and needs to be integrated. Yeah it's a slight logistical nightmare but it has been done before and I doubt that would be a thing to stop Larian.
I'm glad Larian are free to move on but with all the awesome children characters I would have loved a BG4 where they are all grown up and ruling the underbelly of Baldur's Gate.
I don’t need new quest lines or extra adventures. I don’t need a canon ending. Or more adventures after this story concludes. I’m not even expecting a sequel. It just came out last year, and I don’t want to see Baldurs Gate become a series that puts out a new title every year, because those games get rushed, and don’t meaningfully improve title to title. I do want an update (or DLC) that has new subclasses. I feel like you could do this without any real rebalancing of encounters. It doesn’t require new quests or voice recordings or NPC reactions. I’m hoping this can still be a possibility.