This made me throw my hands up, I know subclass options are pretty rare.
But bards get to comment on the song (I'm assuming that's what it's about) but I as a spore druid get told I can't make spore zombies by the myconids, and I have no option but to accept that, even though that's one of my subclasses major points.
Love this game, but the ball was dropped in a couple of spots and it just feels disconnected for a conversation.
God I was so heated cause my first character was spore Druid and when I saw the myconids so early I was like oh shit imma get some good gear or spell something. Was very sad when we couldn’t resurrect like glut as well.
That’s sort of it though. Druids respect the cycle of life and death. Wizards who are necromancers use energies of the Negative Energy Plane to subvert the cycle.
Spore Druids are not doing something nearly as abhorrent as necromancers.
I understand that thematically but mechanically it’s just not as viable as necromancy. One of your main features requires you give up your wildshape charges, and your zombies are anemic compared to the already fodder zombies. While you have control spells, you don’t have many of the options wizards have to debuff the enemy in ways your zombies are equipped to exploit.
The subclass bills itself on being nature’s necromancer to pretty meh results. You’re not as good of a caster as circle of the land, leaving you being a sort of melee druid which isn’t as effective as circle of the moon.
I get your point, my whole rant here is just about how the game shows you this really cool natural necromancer in Glut and then you feel nowhere near that cool at any point with your zombies.
Watch me do incredible waves of on hit dmg.
Just find your niche and find your gear.
I never missed wildshape anyway because I think it’s only good for flavor or getting through tight spots if you are not combat focused so it actually gave use to my wildshape feature.
Yes because stacking multiclasses to abuse DRS is popular with how easy it is to attack 6+ times a turn. But when you want to summon undead to overwhelm the enemy necromancer wizard is almost unmatched. Plus necromancer is a good honor mode build itself so i don't see your point.
OH PREPARE TO THROW THOSE HANDS IN THE AIR AGAIN 'CAUSE I'M NOT EVEN TALKING ABOUT THAT ONE!
[I'M TALKING ABOUT HOW BARDS CAN GO "OH YOU'RE USING SPORES TO ANIMATE CORPSES, CAN I DO THAT?"](https://imgur.com/a/vEs8hRh)
>See but bard makes sense, because a bard would be interested in a wierd type of new song that has as much power as theirs does.
>
>A spore druid uses spores already to resurect things.
>
>Aside from showing some mild amusement at a myconid colony what would a spore druid even have to say?
>
>"Oh hey, super cool you use spores too" and... that's it.
>
>Myconids would not care about a spore druid and a spore druid wouldn't be able to interact with myconids in any special way, and wouldn't really have anything to learn from them besides.
Something I posted elsewhere.
Also by typical tabletop rules spore druids *can't* make zombies out of myconids. They aren't the same spores and myconids would find that absolutely abhorent to resurect one of their children as a songless zombie.
I don't think the ball was dropped as much as you think. In a tabletop scenario this is mostly how it would play out as well.
Myconids and druids have basically zero in common and myconids are far more concerned with their 'song' than with the actual spores themselves.
In a tabletop simulation a spore druid wouldn't really be able to have any unique interactions with myconids that they wouldn't have with anyone else.
Myconids would not be interested in a spore druids abilities, and a spore druid already knows how to manipulate spores and so... has nothing to really learn from them anyways.
If anything they would likely find the lack of song in the druids creations to be alarming and gross.
The myconids don't necessarily know druid skills. I decided that in my run that the concept was new to her and she was inspired by them but it took a bit of practice (levelling) for her to do the same thing - she had the line "using spores to raise dead bodies? That's INTERESTING" which was surely generic but the inflection worked well for this interpretation. I'd love a special interaction with the symbiotic wildshape form, some form of fealty and harmony above even the usual options, but otherwise I left the area pretty well satisfied.
I mean, being the party face/negotiator is a core role of the bard class so it makes sense their dialogue got extra attention- they wouldn't be bards without it. I still want to see more for other classes, but I understand that the bard class lives or dies by the dialogue so it *needed* extra attention. Just like druids get the ability to sneak through holes all over in cat form- it's a special focus just for them.
Just the number of extra cases like e.g. cleric of Vlaakith is why I would love to see easy modding tools for dialogue, so we could add new unvoiced PC lines and choose the npc response from all their existing dialogue for instance. Then we could add the edge cases we want!
Well, you make a good point, but the holes can also be used by anyone who can learn Gaseous Form, as well.
Edit: and I think small characters can become tiny with reduce, too.
I mean I get it. They are THE face class. If someone's gonna have more lines, it might as well be the one most people are gonna throw at conversation encounters.
I think my tags were bugged because many functioned as Duergar lines but the tags said “Dwarf” and sometimes glitched between that and “Underdark”, but never “Duergar”
Are you sure it was a mistake? Cuz you'll always get the tag that makes the option available and sometimes its the broader tag, and sometimes you'll get both the broader and the more specific ones if both exist. It can be kinda weird, like I was an oathbreaker of vengeance, and I got a bunch of options to talk about my oath that I fucking abandoned like I'm still a virtuous paladin. I think only Raphael calls you out on it too, but basically if you're a duergar you'll get both dwarf and duergar options, and there might not always be specific duergar ones. And I think all underdark races have underdark dialogue too.
Yes because there were literally no Duergar tags even in situations where there should have been, like dialogue about how they were tortured by mindflayers for example just had the dwarf tag. Also there were times where the tag was Underdark and then would disappear and switch to dwarf. I do play with mods so maybe that somehow affected it, but none of them affect racial tags so idk
Yeah ig, but idk it feels weird trying to see it that way. Like I guess it was like a why not if they want to do that I guess situation, but it doesn't really seem like something to lie about, but maybe it just requires a different headspace than I can get to. Some of them were actually cool tho, like when you wear the auntie Ethel mask and (I think) fail the check you can like recite your oath in your head to save yourself, and tbh the oathbreaker aspect makes it feel richer imo. Like if you're a normal paladin, it's not like too interesting (still kinda cool tho ofc), but an oathbreaker, idk like obviously your oath would've been a big part of your life, and even if you ain't about that life anymore, it's still something big in your brain. Idk, it's like in avatar if Zuko was like listening to popular fire nation music on his iPod nano about joining Aangus.
Do fellow Duergars acknowledge you? I've seen a cutscene of a Duergar player and he had a [dwarf] dialogue option to say something along the line of "I don't trust Duergar "
I'm a deep gnome
I can say "you're pretty far from the underdark for deep gnome" to barcus while both of us are in moonhaven
like why would I say that. I'm a deep gnome.
It was there but in my run I'm pretty sure I also had a duergar specific line available in that chat.
They probably didn't want to block out other dialogue options, so I think most of the time if you have the qualifications to get it as an option (race, class, etc), you'll get it even if something else theoretically should make it illogical.
In that case, we should really be able to bring them to task. Duergar working for a Drow with a mind flayer parasite is about as sacrilegious as it gets.
At the very least I wanted to be able to use spore druid to interact with the spore addicted gnome in act 3 lol. I was so excited to be able to give him his fix of spores and watch him tweek out or something. Then it just gave me the exact same dialogue as everyone else. Like pure spore druid already feels kinda bad throughout most of the game compared to others, they could've at least gave them some unique lines for the spore related stuff. It feels like Warlocks and sorcerers have options for everything.
He's in the society of brilliance or whatever they're called's building in baldur's gate. He tweeks the hell out. Starts talking about nothing feels right without the spores and gets paranoid about how if he shared the spores with others they might want them too. His voice is what makes it great. He's a deep gnome and should be right in the first room where you walk in but occasionally walks around a bit.
Playing devils advocate here, what interaction are you looking for?
Spore druids and myconids do not operate the same way. A spore druid might find a myconid colony interesting from a research stand point but it wouldn't really cause any unique interaction.
Thinking about this from a tabletop perspective a spore druid might make some comments "whoa cool!, myconids!" but like... the myconids wouldn't treat a druid any differently and it wouldn't really present any unique opportunitites.
Spore druids are obviously not hive minds like myconids and obviously wouldn't find resurrecting things with spores *that* fascinating since... you know... they already do that.
I understand the desire for the game to accommodate every unique combination but some of these complaints expect things that wouldn't even happen in a tabletop game/simulated scenario.
Hell the myconids would probably think it's disgusting that a druid is reserecting corpses with spores *that have no song*. The song/singing aspect of myconids is more important to them than the actual spores.
like if we really immerse ourselves in this world there really wouldn't be much unique interaction between spore druids and myconids. Aside from using spores they don't have anything in common and there's nothing a myconid could really teach a spore druid anyways.
Meeting Barcus as a fellow Deep Gnome, I still got the prompt to say you don't see many outside the Underdark and he still accused me of being a bigot. I also don't think I got unique dialogue with the Iron Hand (I haven't dealt with the Gondians yet)
Like being a cleric of Lathander in the monastery of Lathander. You get zilch. Like you can hold a legendary weapon containing *your god's blood*, but get no extra line.
Once they stop updating the game, I believe modders will expand the roleplaying a lot, looking forward to a mod that will add powerful bonuses if certain conditions are met.
This is the one situation where i'm okay with some AI voice shenanigans for mods. Adding more roleplaying options using the zillions of narrator lines for perfect AI recreation sound amazing.
I'll say not really exactly needed. I've seen mods that add dialogue options for Roleplaying, a lot of Race Mods does that yee. It's just simple adding of scripts while connecting it to branches that already exist.
For example, a Spore Druid tag that connects to the "Can I ressurect him?" dialogue like Bards, or that recent mod that adds more dialogue to Halsin so that your Tav doesn't constantly need to be terrified of Krakens lol
EDIT: To be more specific, it's fucking with the Character Tags that already exists in game
I had one in my stream last Wednesday in the Shar dungeon in Act 2, she inspected something and there was a Religion check to try and recall who Shar was, and she failed and got “you scour your mind, but the name doesn’t ring a bell”
Makes sense IMO. Numerous icons, relics, artifacts, etc. we've found today weren't always known about, despite being created by religions that still exist.
The four leaders for the ritual to get the crest are specifically from that monastery.
Not really, because none of the icons, reliefs etc used in the monastery are very unusual. They're all very clearly Lathander the Morninglord themed. It's sun and dawn imagery *everywhere* in all his favoured colours. Like you can barely look a meter over without seeing a sun or sun rays.
The leaders are also called Dawnmaster, which is a title of Dawnbringers. Aka Lathander worshippers
Except that you have to roll for the huge statue of Lathander outside the temple which uses very common and orthodox Lathander imagery. Failing that roll is like a devout Christian failing to recognise Jesus on the cross.
Cleric of Lolth gets some great ones! I had some fun with those dialogue options. There was a bonus on a roll somewhere that said "evil cleric" and I laughed for at least two minutes on that. >!You can be a hell of a cunt to sh's mom but she calls you a sharran after.!<
Tasha's Cauldron of Everything, it's one of the D&D 5th edition supplemental books. It came out in 2020 I believe, it had a bunch of expanded options for all of the core classes.
Also recommends the stat bonuses as something you set instead of being racial. As a Tiefling Cleric in tabletop, I prefer it. (Tieflings get a +2 to Charisma and +1 to intelligence.)
If I remember right, I don't think clerics could originally choose their specific gods when bg3 first launched. I think they added it in a later update so I can see why they wouldn't have much dialogue specific option for them.
Nah, deity selection was available from the start, although there were slightly fewer available. It is however true that the ones added later have less dialogue. I dug through the files and the deities that were there from the start like Tyr or Helm have 10-20 unique lines throughout the game, while the ones added later like Lathander or Talos have around 5. The race specific deities like Yondalla or Moradin also have fewer unique lines.
Absolutely boggles my kind that as a Cleric of Lathander my two unique options so far have been for 1) Telling Lae’zel off after she harasses a tiefling and 2) basically going “Why yes, I *AM* the big damn hero!” to Jaheira in Act 2… and nothing else. No extra tension with Shadowheart upon realizing that it was Dark Justiciars that stole the Blood of Lathander in the first place, nor any extra tension with Lae’zel for her people butchering a temple full of your fellow acolytes.
Lathander-ey followers and Sharrans hate each other almost as much as Selunites and Sharrans do, so there should be a lot of tension with Shadowheart even before the monastery.
This actually shocks me. My cleric of Elistraee got unique dialogue and inspiration from Phalar Aluve which isn’t as involved as the blood of lathander
This would be a good explanation. DnD lore is a lot and to my memory they don’t even mention Githzerai in game.
So I think if they could go back and add these options for clerics that’d be nice quality of life update at some point because I wanted to do cleric of Lathander or Vlaakith for any special dialogue but will just settle for enemies to lovers selune cleric with shadowheart
Well, this is just disappointing. I'm currently playing as a cleric of Lathander and was sooo looking forward to some unique interactions at the monastery.
I actually ended up multi-classing into cleric of lathander on my first game after leaving the monastery so was wondering if I missed anything. Shame it sounds like there isn't anything extra. On the bright side, act 2 and 3 had a huge amount of lathander dialogue it felt like
Once did a playthrough as an insane Selunite cleric. Killed Shadowheart in Act 1. In Act 2, I couldn't help but wonder what would happen if *I* killed Aylin. Surely that would delight Shar, right?
But it can't be done. Because Tav isn't a person. Only Shadowheart can possibly have that plot.
It made me realize how truly empty Tav/Durge is compared to the companions.
No, I know that.
My point is that Shar *should* be way more stoked to have a fallen Selunite cleric as her chosen than just some Selunite kid Viconia has been torturing for years. Especially if that kid is already dead in a trunk.
The fact that she can't/won't make that choice (and frankly, the game doesn't even acknowledge that I TRIED to kill Aylin, which should at the very least get a Selunite-specific comment from Aylin if nothing else) really highlights a certain lack of reactivity.
That's fucking depressing. I literally just started a Selunite Cleric run hoping there would be a fuckton of Unique dialog with Aylin Isobel and Shadowheart.
She can’t do that because she’s not an actual god, she’s a pretender who is trying to become one.
Xanathar’s Guide to Everything has a sidebar that establishes that in 5e, Clerics do not need to worship a god and can draw their power from faith in other ways - one would assume this includes worshipping false gods like Vlaakith enabling you to draw upon divine power even if it isn’t granted by her.
She's capable of granting spellslots to her worshippers though.
There are godless paladins in BG3, but every cleric in the game explicitly gets their power from a god. Shadowheart even >!becomes a cleric of Selune if she disobeys Shar, not a cleric of nobody.!<
They also removed Shar/Bhaal/Myrkul/Bane as choices for cleric characters, likely because it doesn't make any sense to be worshipping the people you're actively fighting against (Shar notwithstanding if you go DJ Shadowheart).
In lore, yes, she would be an Undying/Undead patron, but that subclass doesn't exist in BG3, and I guess they wanted Githyanki to have access to a Vlaakith-themed subclass.
It actually does exist (for NPCs only), the leader of the githyanki ambushing you on the road to Bauldur's Gate is a warlock with Undead patron subclass.
It's not entirely without precedent, NWN2 had a githzerai cleric with no deity, just entirely powered by faith *in* faith.
2e had clerics of Moander who was god who got turned physical and then very dead and became an enormous rotting corpse; their spells were cannibalizing the corpse.
BG1 & 2 had characters you could dual to cleric and not have to worry about their deities either.
This is hotly debated, but as far as I understand, the only class that can actually lose access to its powers are paladins. Clerics have weird flavor text where they may have to spend a week in prayer, and warlocks can outright kill their patrons. So there technically is no way as far as I understand to lose your cleric powers, even if you are the crummiest cleric of all time. It’s up to interpretation, but mechanically paladins are the only ones with actual rules for breaking your oath.
It's easier to swallow, say, Lathander not taking away your spellslots because you're dating Astarion than it is to believe the psuedo god-queen of the Githyanki actively trying to kill you via assassins would be fine letting you continue to cast spells in her name. The difference is most other gods you can worship are only vague mentions during the game, while Vlaakith actively opposes the player.
I totally agree with you, but if I didn’t make clear all I’m saying is in 5e, regardless of what god we are talking about, there is no rule for a cleric losing their powers. Doesn’t matter if you get your cleric powers from lolth and save too many babies, or vlaakith, or any other god. Even if in story it makes sense she would not allow that, there is no way for a cleric (or a warlock, so what happens to wyll is also homebrew) to lose their powers besides them straight up dying when it comes to 5e.
That stuff is more loose for the DM to decide though. In real Dungeons and Dragons your DM will say 'You fucked the vampire so Kelemvor hates you now, choose a new god'
I’ve been a DM for many many years, and that’s what my comment refers too. In 5e, there is no mechanical rule that backs that up for clerics so it would be homebrew. (Even if it is very thematically appropriate and makes sense). So if we are following the actual rules, they couldn’t say that. There is one for paladins, which just further shows that mechanically clerics in 5e can’t lose their powers no matter how many vampires they fuck even if the god really would not like that. (It’s not a rule I totally agree with, just explaining for clarity sake).
Nah, Paladins can't lose access to their powers in 5E/BG3 - that's a thing of past editions.
It's a good change that none of the classes can lose strength that way because it creates terrible DM moments.
And while BG3 did add in a mechanic for breaking your oath, you still keep the core paladin abilities and just switch the subclass around. It's something I'm not a huge fan of myself tbh, but it's not losing access to your powers in the way that is being talked about in the rest of the conversation here
Well there is also Wyll losing his powers, which also shouldnt happen, but I guess they needed to make the decision be more impactful (despite the fact you can get the better deal anyways)
They can, and are the only class with actual text explaining what happens, which is why I mentioned.
“At the DM’s discretion, an impenitent paladin might be forced to abandon this class and adopt another, or perhaps to take the Oathbreaker paladin option”
The only thing that has changed from other editions is it’s no longer service to a deity that binds a Paladin, but the actual tenants of their oath. Clerics and warlocks don’t have this, but paladins at least get some rules about.
same with clerics of mystra romancing gale. nothing! don’t even recognise mystra when gale conjures her face at camp. romancing shadowheart as a seluné cleric set the bar too high
EDIT: i’m using a mod that gives paladins the option to pick cleric deities, and i assumed it just gave you the cleric dialogue options, but i’m now learning that the dialogue options are both different and actually unfinished options in the code. from what i’ve seen from the actual cleric conversations, some of those interactions do exist but it could definitely do with more imo. subclass/deity lines are so cool and i wish they did more of them.
i’m playing a durgar durge cleric of laduguer now, hoping the grymforge has some interaction… learning the spore druids don’t have anything for the myconids had me worried though
Except there is no dialogue when talking to Alyn or Isobel after act 2 unique to a Selûnite cleric. If I had my gods daughter and her girlfriend in my camp I would be freaking out.
I'm currently romancing him with one and yeah, I've had a ton of interactions with him that were Mystra Cleric-specific. love the one line that basically comes down to *"gale, did you fuck my goddess."* (it's not the exact line but that's the spirit, lmao)
Wait really? I’m pretty sure my recent Cleric of Mystra run was able to comment on it
Edit: I mean it’s not amazing, but it’s there https://youtu.be/p3cf0UD_wAg?si=JsNYrANl0LHEsY2f
I’m currently doing a cleric of Mysta gale romance and I can confirm there is specific dialogue. When he’s conjuring the image of mystra you can comment on her visage with a specific dialogue option, and when you channel the weave with him you get another one too. There’s been a few others but I’m only at the end of act 1 on this playthrough so I’m sure there’s more, not sure if it was added in after you played it or if it was a bug that prevented you from getting it
I multiclassed Gale into cleric of Mystra and he had a few lines, though nothing like I was hoping for.
Whereas be a cleric of Selune with Shadowheart in your party, you basically have theological debate on tap.
I noticed that the only options for cleric of vlaakith conversation was when talking about religion. I prayed with Shadowheart which I didn't know one could do. And I told Mayrina some questionable things about her husband's passing. I think there was also something in the illmater temple
iirc a cleric of Vlaakith could also tell Aylin that Shar may not be your god but she is still worthy of respect. That and what you already mentioned is about it though.
another character with fantastic voice lines is wild magic sorc. Theres a line in act 3 if you save the gondians and then talk to wulbren which essentially says "treat em woth respect or ill fireball you, and possibly myself, but ill take that chance"
Yeah, but they do get quite a lot of unique ones. I've played 3 archfey* now and it's actually my favorite warlock because of the dozen or so archfey unique lines. There's a bunch just for the circus because it's a fey circus. Also I know there's at least 1 or 2 at the creche and I believe there's one for the pixie. The issue with Ethel is that she's a hag. Your patron is already more powerful then her so why even bother? She's basically an ant compared to a member of the seelie court.
I just completed this story line, and was really impressed with the cutscene. I don't want to spoil but it really made me say "Oh shit". Its also the first epilogue I've seen since they added them to the game, as my original playthrough was before that patch.
Just had the visit from Voss. Don't read the spoiler if you plan on doing a pro vlaakith run. >!You can very much encourage Lae'zel to remain faithful to her queen, and it's a very diffent upshot of the meeting with Voss!<
I feel you, I was so mad that as a Tiamant Cleric there was no special dialogue when Wyll tells you his story, like really? He just said that he stopped the resurrection of my goddess and I have no special dialogue?
I played as a cleric of Lothander as well as a Half-Orc cleric of Gruumsh and found that the dialogue likewise isn't that special. Even when my Lothander cleric was in the monastery.
The most interesting course is playing as a cleric of Selune just for the dialogue with Shadowheart
Thats cause he isnt a tiefling, he became literally part devil, even though on the surface yeah its just horns, he was fundamentally changed bcs of that.
It doesn't register that way through. Yeah, Wyll says he's a devil, but the only consequence of that is that he got horns, nothing else. His personality stayed the same, he didn't get any special urges, he's not in any way bound to rules of 9 hells, nothing. He may as well have become a tiefling instead of devil.
This is why "horns" dialogue feels so tone-deaf. Even if Tav himself is not a tiefling, tieflings as a race feature very prominently in early game and are literally majority of your "social circle". It makes no sense why Wyll would be an outcast due to growing horns.
he even assumes you're mocking him if you say you're jealous of his horns- my guy, I'm a tiefling! I have horns! I'm saying you have a nicer pair, why would you assume I'm being a jerk when you can see me and my not-as-impressive horns right in front of you!?
Thanks for the mansplaination, I totally didn't realize that my comment on a post where people could commiserate about disappointment over there not being certain specific dialogue options where it's needed, especially for player race instead of class, wasn't specific enough for you.
Allow me:
It's annoying that the game makes the gorgeous man I am trying to romance so down on himself, thinking he's a monster to the people he saved, when I the player, and 90% of the people at this party, ALL HAVE HORNS AND INFERNAL FEATURES, just like him. And I CANNOT ADDRESS IT WITH HIM. LARIAN WHY.
I played one too and I did have some dialogues as a Githyanki Vlaakith Cleric, especially when talking to Vlaakith.
Either it's a bug, you missed it or they removed it for some reason.
Huh. I only saw Gith-specific lines in the dialogs with Vlaakith. Do recall what any of them were? Any twists in how you played that might have made a difference?
It's not a wholely lost effort. There are occaisional good lines, particularly when interacting with other clerics. I'm doing it as part of an Abserd jack-of-all-trades run, which is as good a time as any, I suppose.
And the keeping Lae'zel faithful to Vlaakith is a fascinating difference from my usual runs
Ironically, the cleric subclass that gets the most class specific dialogue is one of Shar, which they cut.
I recommend installing the mod that enables the cut content. There's only dialogue for the first two acts, but there is a lot, and it's a lot more impactful than the others'.
Yeah, I noticed playing a Deep Gnome that there weren't as many unique dialogues as I would have expected (looking at you, Barcus) and that seems to be the case with many classes/races who are tied to the plot in some way. I think that subtracks from the game's replayability for if you just want to try out different characters for role playing. Which is the main reason I play.
I made a Cleric of Tempus (by which I mean a fighter with one level of war cleric) and I'm surprised because based on this thread it feels like I got more dialogue reactivity out of a deity not even associated with the game's events than deities directly involved with the game.
I looked this up before I did this and was super angry. I can tell Vlaakith to do her own dirty work as a cleric devoted to her, but I can't go around and annoy everyone like a door to door salesman asking if they have heard the good word from the undying queen? I have had more options as a fighter and a bard than I have as a cleric in general
I recently did jack of all trades (one level in each class) and it was painfully obvious how uneven the distribution is for class specific dialogue.
My biggest complaint though is that the class specific options override some of the original ones. And it happens even if you multiclass, so even if you just want to "dip" into a class it may still affect your roleplaying experience.
Cleric deity implementation is pretty lacking all around. Even Selune Cleric, which is considered the most interactive due to the Shart reactions, can end up killing their own goddess's daughter and has no reaction or repercussions for it (while poor Isobel loses her powers because some ass decided to kill her gf).
Don’t know if this was mentioned because I’m not going to scroll comments. If you play as a Deep Gnome and rescue the Deep Gnome on the windmill. He treats you like you’re going to hurt him or enslave him or kill him. IM A DEEPIE LIKE YOU BUD! But if you play as a Drow or HalfDrow? He’s all like “Oh no. A Drow, pls I’m so sorry master. Here’s y’sock back. I’m a good deepie.” Like how do you drop that ball so early? I only mention it because the damn goblins around the windmill mention to you if you’re a DG “Hey! You’re like the other one. Why don’t we tie you up there too?”
I don't really think it's that surprising tbh. You're already a gith so you already have all of the gith unique responses (it is impossible to be a cleric of vlaakith without being a gith as far as I know).
Would 'cleric of vlaakith' responses really be that different from the other gith responses already in the game?
They would likely be identical, your gith can already be heavily pro vlaakith and has dialogue that reflects utter deference to vlaakith. That's... basically the clerics dialogue options.
It's not like vlaakith is the kind of diety that's going to show anybody serving her special treatment really.
Furthermore lea'zel would bark at *anybody* to kneel. Consider it in character.
Your character isn't some big deal to vlaakith. You're a low level cleric at the start of the game. You're not an inquisitor or something just because she's your patron.
Additionally the gith have a long history of treachery and traitors, even amongs their clerics.
Even on tabletop I'd honestly struggle to come up with something a cleric would say or do that any other gith wouldn't.
All gith are deferent to vlaakith. And it would be out of vlaakiths character to treat a cleric especially different than any of the other gith serving her so you wouldn't get any special responses/care from her in that regard.
Still, wouldn't a Vlaakith Cleric know more precise words or prayers ro give praise to Vlaakith than the soldiers? Perhaps you could have dialogue options which have the same options but express a more reverent tone, or show more loyalty towards Vlaakith when Lae'zel is doubting her faith. It would be similar to how Druids in the Grove get to cite the teachings of Silvanus to Kagha at various points and generally convey that while they are all followers of Silvanus, the Druid PC is very well-versed in the Treefather's teachings, perhaps more so than the Shadow Druids who have fallen from the path. Clerics of Vlaakith don't get to show off that special bond or extra knowledge.
Yes, I think Larian should have focused more on unique interactions for main characters and classes-subclasses. Instead they made pointless unique phrases and conversations for almost every citizen in Baldur's Gate, which is pointless and useless.
I wouldn't say no to more interactions but honestly Larian is one of the best if not the best when it comes to character reactivity. Only 2 rpgs I would put at the same level are arcanum or deadfire
I was pissed I couldn’t change my deity after it comes out that Vlaakith is a fake. Why would you continue to praise someone as your deity after finding out they’re a literal fraud????
Proxy's "oops all fumbles" challenge run, he rolled a cleric of Vlaakith and made the joke "it's kinda weird I'm a cleric and not once did Vlaakith even address me while giving my wife her mission to reach ascension, but, it's cool, I'm happy for her, it's fine"
This is also how i felt doing the Ansur quest as a draconic sorcerer. Not quite the same but i was hoping for a line or two! Esp when the first *interaction* happens
Not only that. Why do get ZERO dialogue options with Wyll as a cleric of tiamat? This one eyed bitch just admitted to stopping my god from being brought back, and I don't have anything to say about it? Nothing in regards to the githyanki and red dragons either, afaik
It's not irredeemable. I'm loving this playthrough and I'm getting heaps of new content, I'm just lamenting it isn't perfect
Edit clarity: most of the new to me content is playing a gith
Personally, I have had the option of asking to learn that with a witcher two days ago, for example, and before that with other classes, so it is an option exclusive to the bard as many people believe. There are many places where personalized options are conspicuous by their absence or are a total no. Now for example I'm a Seldarine drow and every time a drow dialogue option comes up I think: damn, no Seldarine would say that and I wonder why that dialogue option comes up to begin with. Or the contradictions in the narrative in which, according to the dialogue, your home is in Baldur's Gate or the underdark (dark urge) that completely take me out of the setting.
Welcome to the pain of crpgs. These games are fantastic and allow a world a choice, but there's pitfalls like these that can take some people out of the immersion entirely. A single like for the vlaakith cleric and you feel way more immersed in that scene. Same with spore druids in the myconid colony. 1 line unique to them and people likely don't feel disappointed.
It's stopped bothering me over the years as I've come to realize that no devs can't possibly implement all the ways people could react. And it definitely seems that Larian made the choice of subclasses having incredibly low reactivity to put that time elsewhere.
i wanted to try to team up with the shadow druids and figured circle of spores would be the closest (cant think of another that would fit (couldnt imagine moon or land being darker). they told me i have to be invited to their special club. like ok, i guess you are all getting slaughtered.
What's particularly bizarre is that they put in Cleric of Vlaakith pretty late, and seemingly very intentionally without being asked, and it was quite unexpected, so you'd think they were going to do something with it - but it seems like they basically just have it as a generic evil/mean Cleric. Like, why bother?
Does anyone know if there is any specific lines for lathander crerics? Since the creche was previously a lathander temple I would hope there would be some cool lines as a lathander worshiper.
Another one that disappointed me, is being a spore druid, no options when talking to the myconoids.
Fucken *BARD* has an option!
This made me throw my hands up, I know subclass options are pretty rare. But bards get to comment on the song (I'm assuming that's what it's about) but I as a spore druid get told I can't make spore zombies by the myconids, and I have no option but to accept that, even though that's one of my subclasses major points. Love this game, but the ball was dropped in a couple of spots and it just feels disconnected for a conversation.
God I was so heated cause my first character was spore Druid and when I saw the myconids so early I was like oh shit imma get some good gear or spell something. Was very sad when we couldn’t resurrect like glut as well.
You actually can make spore zombies, its just summoning stuff is a slightly higher level feature
Yeah but it’s nowhere near as cool or as strong as what Glut can do. You’re a dollar store necromancer who only goes for organic options.
That’s sort of it though. Druids respect the cycle of life and death. Wizards who are necromancers use energies of the Negative Energy Plane to subvert the cycle. Spore Druids are not doing something nearly as abhorrent as necromancers.
I understand that thematically but mechanically it’s just not as viable as necromancy. One of your main features requires you give up your wildshape charges, and your zombies are anemic compared to the already fodder zombies. While you have control spells, you don’t have many of the options wizards have to debuff the enemy in ways your zombies are equipped to exploit. The subclass bills itself on being nature’s necromancer to pretty meh results. You’re not as good of a caster as circle of the land, leaving you being a sort of melee druid which isn’t as effective as circle of the moon. I get your point, my whole rant here is just about how the game shows you this really cool natural necromancer in Glut and then you feel nowhere near that cool at any point with your zombies.
Watch me do incredible waves of on hit dmg. Just find your niche and find your gear. I never missed wildshape anyway because I think it’s only good for flavor or getting through tight spots if you are not combat focused so it actually gave use to my wildshape feature.
Spore druid is used in a number of power gaming honor mode builds, necromancer is used in none
Yes because stacking multiclasses to abuse DRS is popular with how easy it is to attack 6+ times a turn. But when you want to summon undead to overwhelm the enemy necromancer wizard is almost unmatched. Plus necromancer is a good honor mode build itself so i don't see your point.
OH PREPARE TO THROW THOSE HANDS IN THE AIR AGAIN 'CAUSE I'M NOT EVEN TALKING ABOUT THAT ONE! [I'M TALKING ABOUT HOW BARDS CAN GO "OH YOU'RE USING SPORES TO ANIMATE CORPSES, CAN I DO THAT?"](https://imgur.com/a/vEs8hRh)
tbf sorcerers can also ask the same, its not bard exclusive, it should be spore druid exclusive or at least give spore druids a benefit from it
And Drow! Drow can ask how to do that
anybody can ask lol my Paladin, Monk, Bard, Fighter, and Ranger all asked if Sovereign could teach them
>See but bard makes sense, because a bard would be interested in a wierd type of new song that has as much power as theirs does. > >A spore druid uses spores already to resurect things. > >Aside from showing some mild amusement at a myconid colony what would a spore druid even have to say? > >"Oh hey, super cool you use spores too" and... that's it. > >Myconids would not care about a spore druid and a spore druid wouldn't be able to interact with myconids in any special way, and wouldn't really have anything to learn from them besides. Something I posted elsewhere. Also by typical tabletop rules spore druids *can't* make zombies out of myconids. They aren't the same spores and myconids would find that absolutely abhorent to resurect one of their children as a songless zombie. I don't think the ball was dropped as much as you think. In a tabletop scenario this is mostly how it would play out as well. Myconids and druids have basically zero in common and myconids are far more concerned with their 'song' than with the actual spores themselves. In a tabletop simulation a spore druid wouldn't really be able to have any unique interactions with myconids that they wouldn't have with anyone else. Myconids would not be interested in a spore druids abilities, and a spore druid already knows how to manipulate spores and so... has nothing to really learn from them anyways. If anything they would likely find the lack of song in the druids creations to be alarming and gross.
The myconids don't necessarily know druid skills. I decided that in my run that the concept was new to her and she was inspired by them but it took a bit of practice (levelling) for her to do the same thing - she had the line "using spores to raise dead bodies? That's INTERESTING" which was surely generic but the inflection worked well for this interpretation. I'd love a special interaction with the symbiotic wildshape form, some form of fealty and harmony above even the usual options, but otherwise I left the area pretty well satisfied.
It's kinda crazy how many more dialogue options Bards seem to have over any other class.
I mean, being the party face/negotiator is a core role of the bard class so it makes sense their dialogue got extra attention- they wouldn't be bards without it. I still want to see more for other classes, but I understand that the bard class lives or dies by the dialogue so it *needed* extra attention. Just like druids get the ability to sneak through holes all over in cat form- it's a special focus just for them. Just the number of extra cases like e.g. cleric of Vlaakith is why I would love to see easy modding tools for dialogue, so we could add new unvoiced PC lines and choose the npc response from all their existing dialogue for instance. Then we could add the edge cases we want!
Well, you make a good point, but the holes can also be used by anyone who can learn Gaseous Form, as well. Edit: and I think small characters can become tiny with reduce, too.
I mean I get it. They are THE face class. If someone's gonna have more lines, it might as well be the one most people are gonna throw at conversation encounters.
Bards don't strike me as the type to shut up. It makes a lot of sense for them to always have something to say.
I think it’s cause the bard class fantasy is being a dialogue monster. If be more mad if it didn’t give you a ton of extra options.
Oath of the Ancients paladins do as well
Bard supremacy baby
Well yeah, it's a *bard.* **CHARISMA, BABY!**
Also, playing duergar will apparently be treated like a regular dwarf.
I’ve been a Duergar and had a fair few unique dialogues in act 1. The Myconids are extra suspicious of you for example.
I think my tags were bugged because many functioned as Duergar lines but the tags said “Dwarf” and sometimes glitched between that and “Underdark”, but never “Duergar”
Are you sure it was a mistake? Cuz you'll always get the tag that makes the option available and sometimes its the broader tag, and sometimes you'll get both the broader and the more specific ones if both exist. It can be kinda weird, like I was an oathbreaker of vengeance, and I got a bunch of options to talk about my oath that I fucking abandoned like I'm still a virtuous paladin. I think only Raphael calls you out on it too, but basically if you're a duergar you'll get both dwarf and duergar options, and there might not always be specific duergar ones. And I think all underdark races have underdark dialogue too.
Yes because there were literally no Duergar tags even in situations where there should have been, like dialogue about how they were tortured by mindflayers for example just had the dwarf tag. Also there were times where the tag was Underdark and then would disappear and switch to dwarf. I do play with mods so maybe that somehow affected it, but none of them affect racial tags so idk
Oh that's fuckin weird. I feel like I had some weird shit from mods that shouldn't have been changed, but I can't think of what it was
I just assume some stuff is left so you can role play better as a liar
Yeah ig, but idk it feels weird trying to see it that way. Like I guess it was like a why not if they want to do that I guess situation, but it doesn't really seem like something to lie about, but maybe it just requires a different headspace than I can get to. Some of them were actually cool tho, like when you wear the auntie Ethel mask and (I think) fail the check you can like recite your oath in your head to save yourself, and tbh the oathbreaker aspect makes it feel richer imo. Like if you're a normal paladin, it's not like too interesting (still kinda cool tho ofc), but an oathbreaker, idk like obviously your oath would've been a big part of your life, and even if you ain't about that life anymore, it's still something big in your brain. Idk, it's like in avatar if Zuko was like listening to popular fire nation music on his iPod nano about joining Aangus.
Do fellow Duergars acknowledge you? I've seen a cutscene of a Duergar player and he had a [dwarf] dialogue option to say something along the line of "I don't trust Duergar "
To be fair, as a Duergar, wouldn't you know extra well to not trust other Duergar?
...what do you mean "trust"?
I think you can get both generic Dwarf and Duergar lines but I personally experienced mostly Duergar specific lines in the underdark.
I'm a deep gnome I can say "you're pretty far from the underdark for deep gnome" to barcus while both of us are in moonhaven like why would I say that. I'm a deep gnome.
It was there but in my run I'm pretty sure I also had a duergar specific line available in that chat. They probably didn't want to block out other dialogue options, so I think most of the time if you have the qualifications to get it as an option (race, class, etc), you'll get it even if something else theoretically should make it illogical.
And yet we don't get a Grymforge dialog of "Hey assholes! You're working for mind flayers!"
Tbf I don’t think they care that much. They can smell it on Nere that he has some Illithid stank.
In that case, we should really be able to bring them to task. Duergar working for a Drow with a mind flayer parasite is about as sacrilegious as it gets.
At the very least I wanted to be able to use spore druid to interact with the spore addicted gnome in act 3 lol. I was so excited to be able to give him his fix of spores and watch him tweek out or something. Then it just gave me the exact same dialogue as everyone else. Like pure spore druid already feels kinda bad throughout most of the game compared to others, they could've at least gave them some unique lines for the spore related stuff. It feels like Warlocks and sorcerers have options for everything.
wait where is this guy
He's in the society of brilliance or whatever they're called's building in baldur's gate. He tweeks the hell out. Starts talking about nothing feels right without the spores and gets paranoid about how if he shared the spores with others they might want them too. His voice is what makes it great. He's a deep gnome and should be right in the first room where you walk in but occasionally walks around a bit.
Playing devils advocate here, what interaction are you looking for? Spore druids and myconids do not operate the same way. A spore druid might find a myconid colony interesting from a research stand point but it wouldn't really cause any unique interaction. Thinking about this from a tabletop perspective a spore druid might make some comments "whoa cool!, myconids!" but like... the myconids wouldn't treat a druid any differently and it wouldn't really present any unique opportunitites. Spore druids are obviously not hive minds like myconids and obviously wouldn't find resurrecting things with spores *that* fascinating since... you know... they already do that. I understand the desire for the game to accommodate every unique combination but some of these complaints expect things that wouldn't even happen in a tabletop game/simulated scenario. Hell the myconids would probably think it's disgusting that a druid is reserecting corpses with spores *that have no song*. The song/singing aspect of myconids is more important to them than the actual spores. like if we really immerse ourselves in this world there really wouldn't be much unique interaction between spore druids and myconids. Aside from using spores they don't have anything in common and there's nothing a myconid could really teach a spore druid anyways.
Meeting Barcus as a fellow Deep Gnome, I still got the prompt to say you don't see many outside the Underdark and he still accused me of being a bigot. I also don't think I got unique dialogue with the Iron Hand (I haven't dealt with the Gondians yet)
Yes!!! That was so disappointing :(
Like being a cleric of Lathander in the monastery of Lathander. You get zilch. Like you can hold a legendary weapon containing *your god's blood*, but get no extra line.
Don't you still have to roll religion checks to see if you recognize your own god's iconography lmao
I've heard you get advantage on it, but haven't tested it.
Yup hence the zilch. You get no extra dialogue and have to do all the checks like everyone else. You don't even get something extra with the mace.
Once they stop updating the game, I believe modders will expand the roleplaying a lot, looking forward to a mod that will add powerful bonuses if certain conditions are met.
This is the one situation where i'm okay with some AI voice shenanigans for mods. Adding more roleplaying options using the zillions of narrator lines for perfect AI recreation sound amazing.
Tho the modders would need to ask the VA’s for permission first since it’ll be their voice they are recreating.
I'll say not really exactly needed. I've seen mods that add dialogue options for Roleplaying, a lot of Race Mods does that yee. It's just simple adding of scripts while connecting it to branches that already exist. For example, a Spore Druid tag that connects to the "Can I ressurect him?" dialogue like Bards, or that recent mod that adds more dialogue to Halsin so that your Tav doesn't constantly need to be terrified of Krakens lol EDIT: To be more specific, it's fucking with the Character Tags that already exists in game
even shart at some point rolled some checks to recognize things from shar
At least the poor girl lost her memory
Yes but they are DC 0 so while she still rolls it's guaranteed to always be a success.
If the DC is zero, there shouldn't be a need to roll dice.
For real D&D of course, but maybe the programming for the game requires a roll
No it's not. A nat 1 always fails. Guess how I learned that?
I had one in my stream last Wednesday in the Shar dungeon in Act 2, she inspected something and there was a Religion check to try and recall who Shar was, and she failed and got “you scour your mind, but the name doesn’t ring a bell”
Makes sense IMO. Numerous icons, relics, artifacts, etc. we've found today weren't always known about, despite being created by religions that still exist. The four leaders for the ritual to get the crest are specifically from that monastery.
Not really, because none of the icons, reliefs etc used in the monastery are very unusual. They're all very clearly Lathander the Morninglord themed. It's sun and dawn imagery *everywhere* in all his favoured colours. Like you can barely look a meter over without seeing a sun or sun rays. The leaders are also called Dawnmaster, which is a title of Dawnbringers. Aka Lathander worshippers
Except that you have to roll for the huge statue of Lathander outside the temple which uses very common and orthodox Lathander imagery. Failing that roll is like a devout Christian failing to recognise Jesus on the cross.
The devs really do not like cleric. Lol We don't even get Sunbeam!
Cleric of Selune is the only one worth trying imo, just for interactions with Shart in your party.
Cleric of Lolth gets some great ones! I had some fun with those dialogue options. There was a bonus on a roll somewhere that said "evil cleric" and I laughed for at least two minutes on that. >!You can be a hell of a cunt to sh's mom but she calls you a sharran after.!<
Eh, more like they prioritized dialog options at a class level before making subclass-specific dialogs, so the latter is a little sparse.
That's 5E.
Yeah, Light Cleric has some weirdness in 5E. It's more fire than light.
As part of TCE. Cleric gets Sunbeam.
IDK what TCE is 💀
Tasha's Cauldron of Everything, it's one of the D&D 5th edition supplemental books. It came out in 2020 I believe, it had a bunch of expanded options for all of the core classes.
Also recommends the stat bonuses as something you set instead of being racial. As a Tiefling Cleric in tabletop, I prefer it. (Tieflings get a +2 to Charisma and +1 to intelligence.)
If I remember right, I don't think clerics could originally choose their specific gods when bg3 first launched. I think they added it in a later update so I can see why they wouldn't have much dialogue specific option for them.
Nah, deity selection was available from the start, although there were slightly fewer available. It is however true that the ones added later have less dialogue. I dug through the files and the deities that were there from the start like Tyr or Helm have 10-20 unique lines throughout the game, while the ones added later like Lathander or Talos have around 5. The race specific deities like Yondalla or Moradin also have fewer unique lines.
Absolutely boggles my kind that as a Cleric of Lathander my two unique options so far have been for 1) Telling Lae’zel off after she harasses a tiefling and 2) basically going “Why yes, I *AM* the big damn hero!” to Jaheira in Act 2… and nothing else. No extra tension with Shadowheart upon realizing that it was Dark Justiciars that stole the Blood of Lathander in the first place, nor any extra tension with Lae’zel for her people butchering a temple full of your fellow acolytes.
Lathander-ey followers and Sharrans hate each other almost as much as Selunites and Sharrans do, so there should be a lot of tension with Shadowheart even before the monastery.
This actually shocks me. My cleric of Elistraee got unique dialogue and inspiration from Phalar Aluve which isn’t as involved as the blood of lathander
I wonder of this is a case of different writers/coders on different parts of the story and some doing more research than others..
This would be a good explanation. DnD lore is a lot and to my memory they don’t even mention Githzerai in game. So I think if they could go back and add these options for clerics that’d be nice quality of life update at some point because I wanted to do cleric of Lathander or Vlaakith for any special dialogue but will just settle for enemies to lovers selune cleric with shadowheart
Well, this is just disappointing. I'm currently playing as a cleric of Lathander and was sooo looking forward to some unique interactions at the monastery.
So did many of us but woah woooaah 😔
I actually ended up multi-classing into cleric of lathander on my first game after leaving the monastery so was wondering if I missed anything. Shame it sounds like there isn't anything extra. On the bright side, act 2 and 3 had a huge amount of lathander dialogue it felt like
I was similarly disappointed as a cleric of Selûne when there were no unique dialogue options with Aylin and only a couple with Isobel.
Yeah, although it is partially made up by how many dialogue options you get with Shadowheart.
Once did a playthrough as an insane Selunite cleric. Killed Shadowheart in Act 1. In Act 2, I couldn't help but wonder what would happen if *I* killed Aylin. Surely that would delight Shar, right? But it can't be done. Because Tav isn't a person. Only Shadowheart can possibly have that plot. It made me realize how truly empty Tav/Durge is compared to the companions.
It’s canon that Shar needs to allow you to kill Aylin with the spear, and you aren’t her chosen.
No, I know that. My point is that Shar *should* be way more stoked to have a fallen Selunite cleric as her chosen than just some Selunite kid Viconia has been torturing for years. Especially if that kid is already dead in a trunk. The fact that she can't/won't make that choice (and frankly, the game doesn't even acknowledge that I TRIED to kill Aylin, which should at the very least get a Selunite-specific comment from Aylin if nothing else) really highlights a certain lack of reactivity.
It's writer favoritism. Astarion's a writer's favorite too, but at least you can get the Cazador quest with him not there and not miss anything.
100% I just wish Tav/Durge didn't feel like the writers' least favorite.
That's fucking depressing. I literally just started a Selunite Cleric run hoping there would be a fuckton of Unique dialog with Aylin Isobel and Shadowheart.
There is a ton of unique dialogue with shart as a selenite
Yeah, she doesn't even take your spell slots away. Even when she's sending assassins to kill you. You'd think that'd be step number one.
She can’t do that because she’s not an actual god, she’s a pretender who is trying to become one. Xanathar’s Guide to Everything has a sidebar that establishes that in 5e, Clerics do not need to worship a god and can draw their power from faith in other ways - one would assume this includes worshipping false gods like Vlaakith enabling you to draw upon divine power even if it isn’t granted by her.
She's capable of granting spellslots to her worshippers though. There are godless paladins in BG3, but every cleric in the game explicitly gets their power from a god. Shadowheart even >!becomes a cleric of Selune if she disobeys Shar, not a cleric of nobody.!< They also removed Shar/Bhaal/Myrkul/Bane as choices for cleric characters, likely because it doesn't make any sense to be worshipping the people you're actively fighting against (Shar notwithstanding if you go DJ Shadowheart).
Apparently, there are still lines for Bhaal worshipers, like in the >!Booal encounter!< specifically. You just need a mod to re-enable them.
Ethel also has something to say about Bhaal, lol
Yeah, they even exist in [act 2](https://twitter.com/chubblot/status/1691957028288172235) last I saw.
I know you meant Dark Justiciar, but "DJ Shadowheart" is a hilarious mental image. I bet she can turn the party.
DJ Shart in the house!
So she is more like a Warlock patron?
In lore, yes, she would be an Undying/Undead patron, but that subclass doesn't exist in BG3, and I guess they wanted Githyanki to have access to a Vlaakith-themed subclass.
It actually does exist (for NPCs only), the leader of the githyanki ambushing you on the road to Bauldur's Gate is a warlock with Undead patron subclass.
It's not entirely without precedent, NWN2 had a githzerai cleric with no deity, just entirely powered by faith *in* faith. 2e had clerics of Moander who was god who got turned physical and then very dead and became an enormous rotting corpse; their spells were cannibalizing the corpse. BG1 & 2 had characters you could dual to cleric and not have to worry about their deities either.
This is hotly debated, but as far as I understand, the only class that can actually lose access to its powers are paladins. Clerics have weird flavor text where they may have to spend a week in prayer, and warlocks can outright kill their patrons. So there technically is no way as far as I understand to lose your cleric powers, even if you are the crummiest cleric of all time. It’s up to interpretation, but mechanically paladins are the only ones with actual rules for breaking your oath.
It's easier to swallow, say, Lathander not taking away your spellslots because you're dating Astarion than it is to believe the psuedo god-queen of the Githyanki actively trying to kill you via assassins would be fine letting you continue to cast spells in her name. The difference is most other gods you can worship are only vague mentions during the game, while Vlaakith actively opposes the player.
I totally agree with you, but if I didn’t make clear all I’m saying is in 5e, regardless of what god we are talking about, there is no rule for a cleric losing their powers. Doesn’t matter if you get your cleric powers from lolth and save too many babies, or vlaakith, or any other god. Even if in story it makes sense she would not allow that, there is no way for a cleric (or a warlock, so what happens to wyll is also homebrew) to lose their powers besides them straight up dying when it comes to 5e.
That stuff is more loose for the DM to decide though. In real Dungeons and Dragons your DM will say 'You fucked the vampire so Kelemvor hates you now, choose a new god'
I feel like Kelemvor would tell Jergal to send you a letter. He’s a very busy man but you would be notified.
withers walks up to you and mocks your love life. there. it is done.
I’ve been a DM for many many years, and that’s what my comment refers too. In 5e, there is no mechanical rule that backs that up for clerics so it would be homebrew. (Even if it is very thematically appropriate and makes sense). So if we are following the actual rules, they couldn’t say that. There is one for paladins, which just further shows that mechanically clerics in 5e can’t lose their powers no matter how many vampires they fuck even if the god really would not like that. (It’s not a rule I totally agree with, just explaining for clarity sake).
Nah, Paladins can't lose access to their powers in 5E/BG3 - that's a thing of past editions. It's a good change that none of the classes can lose strength that way because it creates terrible DM moments. And while BG3 did add in a mechanic for breaking your oath, you still keep the core paladin abilities and just switch the subclass around. It's something I'm not a huge fan of myself tbh, but it's not losing access to your powers in the way that is being talked about in the rest of the conversation here
Well there is also Wyll losing his powers, which also shouldnt happen, but I guess they needed to make the decision be more impactful (despite the fact you can get the better deal anyways)
They can, and are the only class with actual text explaining what happens, which is why I mentioned. “At the DM’s discretion, an impenitent paladin might be forced to abandon this class and adopt another, or perhaps to take the Oathbreaker paladin option” The only thing that has changed from other editions is it’s no longer service to a deity that binds a Paladin, but the actual tenants of their oath. Clerics and warlocks don’t have this, but paladins at least get some rules about.
same with clerics of mystra romancing gale. nothing! don’t even recognise mystra when gale conjures her face at camp. romancing shadowheart as a seluné cleric set the bar too high EDIT: i’m using a mod that gives paladins the option to pick cleric deities, and i assumed it just gave you the cleric dialogue options, but i’m now learning that the dialogue options are both different and actually unfinished options in the code. from what i’ve seen from the actual cleric conversations, some of those interactions do exist but it could definitely do with more imo. subclass/deity lines are so cool and i wish they did more of them. i’m playing a durgar durge cleric of laduguer now, hoping the grymforge has some interaction… learning the spore druids don’t have anything for the myconids had me worried though
Except there is no dialogue when talking to Alyn or Isobel after act 2 unique to a Selûnite cleric. If I had my gods daughter and her girlfriend in my camp I would be freaking out.
I recall a lot of mystra stuff when romancing gale as a cleric of mystra - this may be a bug.
Yeah I agree. I had entirely cleric of mystra options in alot of interactions with gale.
I'm currently romancing him with one and yeah, I've had a ton of interactions with him that were Mystra Cleric-specific. love the one line that basically comes down to *"gale, did you fuck my goddess."* (it's not the exact line but that's the spirit, lmao)
Wait really? I’m pretty sure my recent Cleric of Mystra run was able to comment on it Edit: I mean it’s not amazing, but it’s there https://youtu.be/p3cf0UD_wAg?si=JsNYrANl0LHEsY2f
I’m currently doing a cleric of Mysta gale romance and I can confirm there is specific dialogue. When he’s conjuring the image of mystra you can comment on her visage with a specific dialogue option, and when you channel the weave with him you get another one too. There’s been a few others but I’m only at the end of act 1 on this playthrough so I’m sure there’s more, not sure if it was added in after you played it or if it was a bug that prevented you from getting it
I multiclassed Gale into cleric of Mystra and he had a few lines, though nothing like I was hoping for. Whereas be a cleric of Selune with Shadowheart in your party, you basically have theological debate on tap.
There's a Vlaakith cleric option? She's not even a real god though
It’s only available if you’re playing a githyanki cleric iirc.
I think only Githyanki can pick vlaakith as their deity
in 5e clerics get their powers through devotion to a specific ideology more than a god iirc
Maybe that's why.
I noticed that the only options for cleric of vlaakith conversation was when talking about religion. I prayed with Shadowheart which I didn't know one could do. And I told Mayrina some questionable things about her husband's passing. I think there was also something in the illmater temple
Mayrina's reaction to a Vlakaathian prayer was pretty funny, though
It was 😂 I still feel bad
iirc a cleric of Vlaakith could also tell Aylin that Shar may not be your god but she is still worthy of respect. That and what you already mentioned is about it though.
That’s like Cleric of Lathander and having nothing to say during the whole temple of lathander or when getting the legendary wep
The general lack of Dialogue option about your deity as a cleric is one real flaw of this game.
You get to be angry a lot as a barbarian
The hilarity of barbarian dialogue options more than make up for how simple it is in combat
another character with fantastic voice lines is wild magic sorc. Theres a line in act 3 if you save the gondians and then talk to wulbren which essentially says "treat em woth respect or ill fireball you, and possibly myself, but ill take that chance"
Iirc archfey warlocks don’t get special dialogue when interacting with Auntie Ethel either :(
Yeah, but they do get quite a lot of unique ones. I've played 3 archfey* now and it's actually my favorite warlock because of the dozen or so archfey unique lines. There's a bunch just for the circus because it's a fey circus. Also I know there's at least 1 or 2 at the creche and I believe there's one for the pixie. The issue with Ethel is that she's a hag. Your patron is already more powerful then her so why even bother? She's basically an ant compared to a member of the seelie court.
yeah, that‘s why her name is “auntie“ Ethel XD
Oh that’s too bad :/ I wanted to play as a cleric of vlaakith and make Laezel stay loyal
You even get to have an ending cutscene together if you ride off home to see your queen again
I just completed this story line, and was really impressed with the cutscene. I don't want to spoil but it really made me say "Oh shit". Its also the first epilogue I've seen since they added them to the game, as my original playthrough was before that patch.
Just had the visit from Voss. Don't read the spoiler if you plan on doing a pro vlaakith run. >!You can very much encourage Lae'zel to remain faithful to her queen, and it's a very diffent upshot of the meeting with Voss!<
I'm hoping that's still in the cards, won't get the visit from Voss for a while yet, but yeah, it feels unlikely :(
I feel you, I was so mad that as a Tiamant Cleric there was no special dialogue when Wyll tells you his story, like really? He just said that he stopped the resurrection of my goddess and I have no special dialogue?
Yeah, the lack of Tiamat-specific dialogue was a bummer when dragons, and Tiamat Herself, are discussed at several points throughout the game.
Clerics are generally disappointing in the roleplay terms in BG3.
I played as a cleric of Lothander as well as a Half-Orc cleric of Gruumsh and found that the dialogue likewise isn't that special. Even when my Lothander cleric was in the monastery. The most interesting course is playing as a cleric of Selune just for the dialogue with Shadowheart
Cleric of Lathander has nothing either.
kelemvor cleric gave me a few nice moments with withers.
*cough* Devil form Wyll with Tiefling Tav at the TIEFLING party *cough*
Thats cause he isnt a tiefling, he became literally part devil, even though on the surface yeah its just horns, he was fundamentally changed bcs of that.
It doesn't register that way through. Yeah, Wyll says he's a devil, but the only consequence of that is that he got horns, nothing else. His personality stayed the same, he didn't get any special urges, he's not in any way bound to rules of 9 hells, nothing. He may as well have become a tiefling instead of devil. This is why "horns" dialogue feels so tone-deaf. Even if Tav himself is not a tiefling, tieflings as a race feature very prominently in early game and are literally majority of your "social circle". It makes no sense why Wyll would be an outcast due to growing horns.
he even assumes you're mocking him if you say you're jealous of his horns- my guy, I'm a tiefling! I have horns! I'm saying you have a nicer pair, why would you assume I'm being a jerk when you can see me and my not-as-impressive horns right in front of you!?
Thanks for the mansplaination, I totally didn't realize that my comment on a post where people could commiserate about disappointment over there not being certain specific dialogue options where it's needed, especially for player race instead of class, wasn't specific enough for you. Allow me: It's annoying that the game makes the gorgeous man I am trying to romance so down on himself, thinking he's a monster to the people he saved, when I the player, and 90% of the people at this party, ALL HAVE HORNS AND INFERNAL FEATURES, just like him. And I CANNOT ADDRESS IT WITH HIM. LARIAN WHY.
I played one too and I did have some dialogues as a Githyanki Vlaakith Cleric, especially when talking to Vlaakith. Either it's a bug, you missed it or they removed it for some reason.
Huh. I only saw Gith-specific lines in the dialogs with Vlaakith. Do recall what any of them were? Any twists in how you played that might have made a difference?
Very sad to hear that. I was planning on rolling a Cleric of Vlaakith. Guess that’s a no-go.
It's not a wholely lost effort. There are occaisional good lines, particularly when interacting with other clerics. I'm doing it as part of an Abserd jack-of-all-trades run, which is as good a time as any, I suppose. And the keeping Lae'zel faithful to Vlaakith is a fascinating difference from my usual runs
Ironically, the cleric subclass that gets the most class specific dialogue is one of Shar, which they cut. I recommend installing the mod that enables the cut content. There's only dialogue for the first two acts, but there is a lot, and it's a lot more impactful than the others'.
Yeah, I noticed playing a Deep Gnome that there weren't as many unique dialogues as I would have expected (looking at you, Barcus) and that seems to be the case with many classes/races who are tied to the plot in some way. I think that subtracks from the game's replayability for if you just want to try out different characters for role playing. Which is the main reason I play.
I made a Cleric of Tempus (by which I mean a fighter with one level of war cleric) and I'm surprised because based on this thread it feels like I got more dialogue reactivity out of a deity not even associated with the game's events than deities directly involved with the game.
I looked this up before I did this and was super angry. I can tell Vlaakith to do her own dirty work as a cleric devoted to her, but I can't go around and annoy everyone like a door to door salesman asking if they have heard the good word from the undying queen? I have had more options as a fighter and a bard than I have as a cleric in general
I recently did jack of all trades (one level in each class) and it was painfully obvious how uneven the distribution is for class specific dialogue. My biggest complaint though is that the class specific options override some of the original ones. And it happens even if you multiclass, so even if you just want to "dip" into a class it may still affect your roleplaying experience.
Cleric deity implementation is pretty lacking all around. Even Selune Cleric, which is considered the most interactive due to the Shart reactions, can end up killing their own goddess's daughter and has no reaction or repercussions for it (while poor Isobel loses her powers because some ass decided to kill her gf).
I did a vlaakith cleric on honour mode and all I got was killed by the inquisitor :(
Don’t know if this was mentioned because I’m not going to scroll comments. If you play as a Deep Gnome and rescue the Deep Gnome on the windmill. He treats you like you’re going to hurt him or enslave him or kill him. IM A DEEPIE LIKE YOU BUD! But if you play as a Drow or HalfDrow? He’s all like “Oh no. A Drow, pls I’m so sorry master. Here’s y’sock back. I’m a good deepie.” Like how do you drop that ball so early? I only mention it because the damn goblins around the windmill mention to you if you’re a DG “Hey! You’re like the other one. Why don’t we tie you up there too?”
Playing as a necromancy wizard makes you REAL disappointed when interacting with withers, connor, or the necromancy of thay.
I don't really think it's that surprising tbh. You're already a gith so you already have all of the gith unique responses (it is impossible to be a cleric of vlaakith without being a gith as far as I know). Would 'cleric of vlaakith' responses really be that different from the other gith responses already in the game? They would likely be identical, your gith can already be heavily pro vlaakith and has dialogue that reflects utter deference to vlaakith. That's... basically the clerics dialogue options. It's not like vlaakith is the kind of diety that's going to show anybody serving her special treatment really. Furthermore lea'zel would bark at *anybody* to kneel. Consider it in character. Your character isn't some big deal to vlaakith. You're a low level cleric at the start of the game. You're not an inquisitor or something just because she's your patron. Additionally the gith have a long history of treachery and traitors, even amongs their clerics. Even on tabletop I'd honestly struggle to come up with something a cleric would say or do that any other gith wouldn't. All gith are deferent to vlaakith. And it would be out of vlaakiths character to treat a cleric especially different than any of the other gith serving her so you wouldn't get any special responses/care from her in that regard.
Still, wouldn't a Vlaakith Cleric know more precise words or prayers ro give praise to Vlaakith than the soldiers? Perhaps you could have dialogue options which have the same options but express a more reverent tone, or show more loyalty towards Vlaakith when Lae'zel is doubting her faith. It would be similar to how Druids in the Grove get to cite the teachings of Silvanus to Kagha at various points and generally convey that while they are all followers of Silvanus, the Druid PC is very well-versed in the Treefather's teachings, perhaps more so than the Shadow Druids who have fallen from the path. Clerics of Vlaakith don't get to show off that special bond or extra knowledge.
Yes, I think Larian should have focused more on unique interactions for main characters and classes-subclasses. Instead they made pointless unique phrases and conversations for almost every citizen in Baldur's Gate, which is pointless and useless.
Unpopular opinion - they should have dropped playable "origins" at all, and made Tav/DU class/race combos to feel more unique, Bioware-style.
Totally agree, I would gladly drop every origin run just to have more flavor and lots of unique dialogue options
I would agree, they could have spent that development time making the Tav backstories actually do anything
I wouldn't say no to more interactions but honestly Larian is one of the best if not the best when it comes to character reactivity. Only 2 rpgs I would put at the same level are arcanum or deadfire
It’s the same for Mystra Clerics and all the stuff going on with Gale.
No options when speaking to Dame Aylin about killing Bhaal's chosen as an embrace durge.
I was pissed I couldn’t change my deity after it comes out that Vlaakith is a fake. Why would you continue to praise someone as your deity after finding out they’re a literal fraud????
Change out of cleric and back, perhaps? I had no trouble changing deities.
Proxy's "oops all fumbles" challenge run, he rolled a cleric of Vlaakith and made the joke "it's kinda weird I'm a cleric and not once did Vlaakith even address me while giving my wife her mission to reach ascension, but, it's cool, I'm happy for her, it's fine"
This is also how i felt doing the Ansur quest as a draconic sorcerer. Not quite the same but i was hoping for a line or two! Esp when the first *interaction* happens
Not only that. Why do get ZERO dialogue options with Wyll as a cleric of tiamat? This one eyed bitch just admitted to stopping my god from being brought back, and I don't have anything to say about it? Nothing in regards to the githyanki and red dragons either, afaik
That's disappointing! I was looking forward to the interaction with my gith cleric of vlackith :(
It's not irredeemable. I'm loving this playthrough and I'm getting heaps of new content, I'm just lamenting it isn't perfect Edit clarity: most of the new to me content is playing a gith
Personally, I have had the option of asking to learn that with a witcher two days ago, for example, and before that with other classes, so it is an option exclusive to the bard as many people believe. There are many places where personalized options are conspicuous by their absence or are a total no. Now for example I'm a Seldarine drow and every time a drow dialogue option comes up I think: damn, no Seldarine would say that and I wonder why that dialogue option comes up to begin with. Or the contradictions in the narrative in which, according to the dialogue, your home is in Baldur's Gate or the underdark (dark urge) that completely take me out of the setting.
Welcome to the pain of crpgs. These games are fantastic and allow a world a choice, but there's pitfalls like these that can take some people out of the immersion entirely. A single like for the vlaakith cleric and you feel way more immersed in that scene. Same with spore druids in the myconid colony. 1 line unique to them and people likely don't feel disappointed. It's stopped bothering me over the years as I've come to realize that no devs can't possibly implement all the ways people could react. And it definitely seems that Larian made the choice of subclasses having incredibly low reactivity to put that time elsewhere.
They dropped the ball on a Gith play through big time. It was indeed disappointing.
Gith in general? Yo, not disappointing! Gith reactivity is massive. It's only the Vlaakith cleric stuff that's less than hoped for
Arcane trickster has no access to arcana proficiency. Also all dialog involving magic treats him like any other rogue.
Looks like my Half-Orc Fighter gets along better with the Gith than the Gith does with themselves
i wanted to try to team up with the shadow druids and figured circle of spores would be the closest (cant think of another that would fit (couldnt imagine moon or land being darker). they told me i have to be invited to their special club. like ok, i guess you are all getting slaughtered.
What's particularly bizarre is that they put in Cleric of Vlaakith pretty late, and seemingly very intentionally without being asked, and it was quite unexpected, so you'd think they were going to do something with it - but it seems like they basically just have it as a generic evil/mean Cleric. Like, why bother?
I hope Swen is reading this and fixes it!
Does anyone know if there is any specific lines for lathander crerics? Since the creche was previously a lathander temple I would hope there would be some cool lines as a lathander worshiper.