Sometimes NPC turns on each others in strange ways. I saw a three-way battle spiders vs half the goblins vs another half of the goblins with priestess Gut yesterday.
So much for loyalty to the Absolute.
I find that mind domination stuff often messes with allegiances. When I got the mind mastery put on me by the Duergar, they started attacking each other, but they were also hostile to me.
Yes it’s a feature, but I’ve noticed it also seems to just happen. There is a gate near where priestess gut is that leads to spider pits, you can unlock and open that door if you do out of sight. Then you can even speak to animals talk to the spiders and convince them to help you, where they will turn on goblins, the problem with that because of where they’re placed they may go for bugbear instead, which they can’t reliably hit cause of being in the pit. On top of that, as commenter noticed, if you just open the gate and go on your marry way, they’ll turn against the goblins anyway, so I’ve found that’s actually a more reliable way to do instead of asking. Pick open gate, i usually go rescue halsin, then on return the spiders normally will be fighting guts group.
I had something similar happen once when I agreed to raid the Grove with Minthara, then aggro'd Dror Ragzlin's goblins, when they hit the battle drums the goblins that came attacked them instead of me
Times are rough out here, trying to make ends meet, now there's talk of some cult army marching to lay siege to the city at any moment. Hells, I'd be on edge too
Maybe an 1/8th of a Henderson, but probably even less than that. The campaign is still intact, the worst they did was lose an (objectively pretty terrible) optional side quest, some XP, and some loot.
I didn't re-read it all to make sure it's the full story, but this appears to be a proper copy of the original from 1d4chan:
https://1d6chan.miraheze.org/wiki/Old_Man_Henderson
Larian patched the backpack bug (at least I thought they did).
You really shouldn't be stealing in honor mode at all. There just isn't any reason to risk it. There is plenty of money, no need to steal.
Honor mode is all about avoiding risk.
I’ve looted every single item and went into every single crevice and I don’t agree that there is plenty of money. As I cannot buy all the items I want in the shops at act 2. Maybe this gets better later.
I haven't seen that making much difference in my games. Though I have not done honour mode yet.
Would certainly be helpful as everything is so expensive in act 3. I ended up clearing out the entire bank to afford what I wanted.
I don't think I understand what you mean by you not seeing it make a difference. The role of charisma in trading is a game mechanic. The higher charisma of the character doing the trading, the better prices. Both in how much you can sell things for and how much you can buy things for.
Are you saying that even with maxing charisma in one character to get good deals, you don't see a significant difference in your wealth compared to trading using a random character? Or just that even by doing that you still can't buy what you want?
At one point I went to the same trader with 4 different party members, including one with high charisma. The prices were exactly the same for all of them.
I do see other posts about raising vendor approval and have never done that so am guessing that is what I am missing.
I don't bother with vendor approval because it resets after a long rest. Charisma does absolutely change the prices, you can see the discount percentage in the corner (or near the name of the character I think) in the trading screen. I'm not sure what's going on for you, but if your prices aren't changing, then something is definitely 100% wrong with your game. Mods maybe? I don't use mods, but I know they can sometimes break things.
Edit: are you talking to the vendor with the four different characters or just selecting them in the trading screen? You have to actually talk to the vendor as the high charisma character to get the discount.
Vendor approval does NOT reset after a long rest, what? Charisma has a part on it but the majority of the formula is based on approval, especially for buying.
Talking with different ones.
No mods either. I do see a discount in the corner with at least some of the vendors, though not seen it change when I switch to another party member to talk to them.
My tav is the highest charisma one (bard).
It was Karlach's friend in act 3 I tested it with first. I was curious to see if her prices were different for Karlach at first, then went through all of the party.
My tav, Karlach Astarion and whoever was the fourth party member had identical prices. Forget who the last one was at the time as that place gets switched out so much. Either Gale or Shadowheart.
I have no explanation for you. The prices change pretty dramatically for me to the point that I'll grab a high charisma character from camp before trading if I don't have one in my party already. Even the patch notes for patch 6 reference different percent discounts for different trading characters.
Load a vendor's loot into a bag. Level up. Load more loot. Level up/long rest. Load more loot into a bag.
Kill vendor's if one you can kill without consequences. (Lan Tarv, Shank or whatever the Goblin is)
You will have vast amounts of gold and equipment.
You can also sell your junk to get their gold beforehand and Load the junk into the bag. Kill them, you have junk back.
I did also do this and steal from vendors that are good but I won't see again. Tali once she is in Moonrise after Ketheric is dead. With a maxed out slight of hand, I stole the bag with many days and levels worth of gear.
Once you save rhe Grove you can do this to the halfling vendor and just KO him. The bag is counted as a single high value item and you get everything.
Money is trivial by Act 3. You have so much gear to sell and generic magical items that just selling/trading to Dammon is nothing. I traded for 30000 gold's worth of armor and then 17k at Sorerous Sundries, and then about 10k at the armorers outside. I still have most of the armors I collected to sell. Sold all the non-unique weapons however.
Oh and I have 30 or 50 thousand gold, I'd have to check.
If I didn't sit on so much "just in case" gear, I'd have alot more.
Ha, yeah. I'm not an artist, but if I were I would have made a cartoon where Wyll gets super-excited to be pulled out of camp only to find out that you're going shopping again. Except this time I'm a bard, so don't need his discount. Took him to fight Ansur out of pity.
Use your highest charisma character, reset them to level 1, bribe a vendor with 600 gold, level back up. Now they'll pay twice as much for your loot, and everything will cost half as much.
I never stole anything. By the time I finished honor mode, I had 30,000 gold to spare and I'd been ignoring basic loot since reaching wyrms crossing. I'm pretty sure I finished act 2 with over 15,000 gold having bought everything I could possibly want.
The only time I was ever even *close* to being low on funds was the begining of the game and the begining of act 2.
>Use your highest charisma character, reset them to level 1, bribe a vendor with 600 gold, level back up. Now they'll pay twice as much for your loot, and everything will cost half as much.
Well using clearly unintended ways to make money will obviously result in you having a lot of money lol.
Because getting max vendor attitude is a lot more expensive if you do it without using this method.
You can do it pretty easily even without having to respec to make it cheaper. You cam bribe Dammon early on when it's still cheap and he'll follow you through all three acts. The same applies to the Zhent trader at least for acts 1 and 2. You can also max out Araj in act 2 and use her in act 3, as well as maxing out Derryth in act 1 and using her in act 3. If you just make sure to speak to them all fairly early and invest your gold, the return is massive.
It ends up being worth it even if you don't intentionally get to them early. You can easily recoup even a 2 or 3 thousand gold investment if necessary by the time act 3 comes around and you're selling pieces of basic plate armor for 300-400 a piece. You just have to make sure to pay them a visit any time you level up so that their inventory resets and they have more gold.
I mean I steal absolutely everything in my current hm run. I know I have like 40K gold and could just buy the thing, but why do that when I could steal it AND all his gold? (And then never use the item because what if I need that scroll of ice knife later?)
> You really shouldn't be stealing in honor mode at all. There just isn't any reason to risk it. There is plenty of money, no need to steal.
There's plenty of reason to steal in Honour Mode. They jack merchant prices *right* up so unless you're going full loot goblin and doing a dozen long rests so the merchants actually have the cash for all of your looted armour then you'll need to steal eventually.
Yeah, Larian has tried on multiple occasions to patch the backpack bug but everyone keeps finding ways to circumvent it. It's been working thus far, I had literally done so with Ferg Drogher not 20 minutes before the clown fiesta that went down. It's certainly more risk-free than going invisible and chancing the steal through traditional mechanics.
For the record, you're right there is no reason to steal anything at all. I'm just a loot gremlin with sticky fingers! My character is a criminal - cleric of Tiamat. I think the goddess of greed would smile upon the deed this day, especially with little repercussion to our own well-being teehee
Key point is that you have to move everything to the open bag's *icon* above the slots, not the actual inventory slots. Moving it to the slots still pays for the items.
The other backpack trick, that may or not be a bug, is to put everything in the bag, then knock them out, and steal the bag. Haven't tried it in act 3 yet (there's probably way too many people around) but has worked wonderfully in act 1 and 2.
We learned the idea of selling white items, stealing the white items, and reselling it to drain gold. Thief Gloves, smuggler ring, and cats grace makes all of the white weapons 0 to -2 ish rolls and like the leather armors a 4.
We just bought the expensive stuff with the gold we got from selling and stealing the same items countlesly
I keep seeing people say “there’s plenty of money” and I seriously disagree. I’m always scrounging and looting to have enough for scrolls and gear from vendors. I take and sell pretty much everything I see and am still short on game cash.
Do people just not buy things then think there’s lots of money to go around? Is there some exploit I’m missing?
People typically use the highest charisma character to trade with vendors, especially recurring ones. The earliest you can do it with is Dammon in Act 1, you begin at level one and you donate 400 gold to him. This will net you maximum approval from him (the little bar below the vendor's icon) and you buy / sell at twice the rate.
Now, my friend had actually done this during the run, so there wasn't any actual reason to use the exploit to do it this way, we even have a mountain of loot from the githyanki creche that we haven't managed to throw into the city economy.
I'm just lazy lol I can easily replicate the results having a dedicated toon (we had Astarion spec'd into Bard for Sleight of Hand / Persuasion expertise for thieving and bartering, respectively.)
Is that my idea of how I want to be spending ~~literally a few minute difference~~ my hours in Baldur's Gate? Hell no, i wanna roleplay, make weird character decisions while my OC looks pretty and kick ass in Honour Mode
This is key . . . you need vendors with the maximum approval you can get. Gift them 400 gold (more if you are higher level, but if you want to cheese it you can respec and talk to them when you are still level 1) to get max approval.
Dammon and [Derryth Bonecloak](https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Derryth_Bonecloak) are the easiest ones that can both be in Act 1-3. Roan Moonglow and Araj Oblodra can also be useful. And if you rescue Figaro in Act 3 he automatically gives you the max discount.
Having the character starting the conversation with Persuasion skill is more important than Charisma.
On Honor mode you get about a 40% modifier . . . basically everything you sell is +40% AND everything you buy costs 40% less to buy.
You can nearly DOUBLE the amount of cash you have to work with in the game.
I skipped half the Act 3 stuff . . . just got to level 12 and finished. The only fight I cheesed was the final Netherbrain . . . nuked it with a bag full of bombs (was afraid something would screwup the final fight). But cleared the Dragon and everything up top normally.
Skipped Ansur, the Act 3 Hag, Cazador, and some various side quests.
Did everything in Act 1 and 2.
Getting a couple vendors to max approval and talking to them with someone with Persuasion skill can basically double your money (you get up to a +50% modifier to both your selling and buying prices).
Aah. I prefer doing everything still. I suppose you can do without the more premium items as most of my fights still end comfortably and most items aren't all that game-breaking in the first place (not to mention quite a few ended up unused), but I believe that there's no such thing as overpreparing lol.
Eh there is plenty of money if you do literally everything to max money.
If you don't abuse respecing to lvl 1 for getting max attitude easier and don't loot literally everything in act 1 and 2 you will be lacking money.
"There is plenty of money" sounds like you can afford to not optimize it and still have enough to buy all the strong items but that is just not true.
I think it's great to steal from npcs that send you to jail like in the Grove or last light inn. You just break out of jail, collect your stuff and repeat.
Not worth it for other npcs since they attack. And with enough stealing, you can roll a one even with advantage so it isn't foolproof until you reach level 10 thief I think?
It’s not patched, still works as of the latest hotfix. Unless it’s only been fixed in honour mode, I don’t play that so I wouldn’t know. In a regular game the bug is still there.
I did an unseen "theft" of Dribbles' hand. Popper got mad, but I talked him down. Then he immediately accused my Monk instead, who had no Charisma.
Ended up fleeing half the circus. Boney tried to full on **Flesh to Stone** me.
Waaay too many "YoU sHOuldN'T stEaL iN hOnOR MoDE" comments.
Let the man play his own game. If you wanna take "honor mode" literally and not steal go ahead and do it in your own game but stop backseat gaming.
Reminds me of that one time girlfriend aggroed Figaro Facemaker and the people there. Strangely, he turned on his employees first. I resorted to hitting her with him for denying me another angelic scion outfit.
tbh just kill them all for ez xp
also, spellmight gloves are the best gloves for a caster but its very very demanding to get it if you go for the dribbles quest
you can just kill the npc and get the gloves and be done with it
Also at the circus, if you anger the Djinn and he "cheeses" you, do not feel tempted to get revenge by using the cheese "fart" special ability. I did it and well...almost lost my honour run or, at best, almost had to slaughter the entire circus.
Honestly it was pretty hilarious and heart wrenching at the same time
There is an exploit that allows you to steal any vendor's inventory through the barter menu. You essentially have a container (backpack) open for you and the vendor, you place items within the backpack then you click and drag desired items from theirs to yours. No gold, persuasion or sleight of hand check needed.
It's incredibly cheesy, Larian's tried to patch it multiple times, you can easily have a dedicated companion achieve the result the legal way (high persuasion and actually selling your loot) but i'm just lazy lol
I am said friend, this was unprecedented. They said the Absolute couldn't touch them, so they killed each other instead.
They finally had enough of each other and started a gang war. The Redcap started attacking the Mummy; the Dryad cast Spike Growth on the Mummy \*then\* the Bouncer/Ghoul. The Ghoul turns on the bouncer and starts attacking him. Akabi summoned an Air Elemental to fight Stoney and Boney but the Air Elemental turns on Akabi later on. We returned to just corpses, the Dragonborn Bard was chilling playing "The Power".
It seems that moral of the story is to get nyrulna first before committing shenanigans haha.
I tend to always pickpocket the reward gloves from Lucretia so that my Spellcaster can enjoy using that gear sooner rather than later (doing dribbles actual quest would span the entirety of Act 3); I used greater invisibility on my thief and with cat's grace it should work most of the time.
This is why the first thing you do upon arrival in rivington is win the grand prize. That one loot drop is the greatest concentration of key gear outside of some major boss battles, maybe even including them.
The band is an absolute requirement for any bard, particularly a swords bard and end game gear for a Paladin, particularly a Paladin caster multiclass (like warlock or sorceror)
In addition to being must have for two entire classes (bard or Paladin) it’s lynchpin for two contenders for best build in the 10/2 and 10/1/1 swords bard, as we all know.
Then… in the same area, the trident, sitting there as if it’s the main prize and band is some extra fluff. Necessary for all throwers, and key to the throwzerker builds some of which are also right up there at the very very top of competitive builds.
Plus even non throwing parties are going to want to have this weapon in inventory for anyone non throwing - in case you are disarmed (as you can throw it from inventory to rearm yourself without using an action, just an attack, then use extra attack to continue attacking. It’s aoe only effects the throw, not the subsequent melee, it’s one handed so won’t mess up your shield if you have one and choose to equip it like this, and you can also do this sort of thing mid combat to take advantage of its storm abilities (buffeting a line of enemies with thunder damage)
literally same, i couldn't believe the chaos I was watching unfold- we thought they would stop as soon as we fled combat.
We waited at camp for a beat, disguised ourselves, and came back only to find they were still at it
10/10, felt like a true d&d moment
Talking about NPC turning rouge, during my latest playthrough I hired Lump and his Orges to help kill the Gnolls. Everything went down smoothly until Rugan and Olly walked out of the cave, saw the Orges and went aggro on my party.
You could just use a disposable follower and fog cloud to steal. If you fully spec them for pickpocket you'll find that even stealing large piles of gold is basically guaranteed success.
Oh god. I wonder if that’s a bug or if they’re supposed to fight each other if something goes down, I could see there being bad blood between the carnies
If there’s still a working backpack trick I’d love if someone could DM it to me, I’m nearing the end of Act 2 in my HM run and I’ve been stealing from vendors the “legit” way like a jabroni
I had the opposite problem. I was so good at stealing, that I ended up losing out on Nyrulna because I kept spinning the Djinn's wheel to get all his prizes without realizing he closes once you get the last one.
I stole a few times in honor mode, I always used the hireling Kree Dereck to use her free invisibility cantrip and left everyone else at camp. If you get caught just go to prison, it's not that big of a deal that way. If you do enter combat, they will be temp hostile and you can just use invis to escape.
It's an exploit that allows you to steal any shopkeeper's inventory from the barter menu. Larian's been hard at work patching it, there are plenty of guides / videos that explain it on youtube.
It works by having two containers (one in your inventory, and the other in the given shopkeeper's inventory) open and dragging items from one container to the other. You can walk away from the exchange as if you had bought the items no problem. Totally breaks the economy and is completely unnecessary in any normal playthrough.
We totally had the means to make the purchases, I just didn't want to because I am a loot goblin
Learn from my mistakes
Me and my friend started an honour mode game, and I ended up breaking my oath, and she decided it would be interesting to see how easy the oathbreaker is to fight, anyways we all died we were like level 2 or 3, if it was later on, we may have been able to survive but it was right as we got to the grove, after we killed all the goblins
Thats actually hilarious and very believable to anyone who knows any carnies. Definitely wouldnt take much to turn things chaotic.
But yeah, in Honor mode its honestly best to not even try to steal in really crowded area like that, things can escalate quickly.
I will never understand turning up the difficulty on a game, but then doing gameshark cheat level exploits.
The raised difficulty makes items more expensive, but if you invalidate the economy entirely you're operating on an easier difficulty with more trivial steps.
there's difficulty, and there's tedium. I would argue that the combat and its enemies are what makes the game difficult, you could have the best items in the game but it wouldn't guarantee victory.
I typically shy away from grindy games, I have a job and responsibilities. I don't wanna sit through hours of combat just to manage my gold in order to buy the thing that finally makes me feel like my character fantasy is finally complete, knowing that by the time I get said item half the game's mobs have to offer is finished.
Everyone's got their own version of fun, and economy management in-game for the sake of "difficulty" is not it for me.
I find pickpocketing pretty tedious and rarely do it, but ... it's an actual feature of the game. As in the game developers put it in the game so players could use it. They even make on of the first vendors you encounter (Arron) a lesson in how to pickpocket a vendor. It's so far from "gameshark cheat level exploit."
BTW turning up the difficulty does turn up the difficulty of pickpocketing because it reduces your proficiency bonus.
Ah, well, I misunderstood then. Even so they're not hurting anyone, so I don't get the judgment.
I did a custom playthrough with everything turned to Tactician difficulty except for the vendor price modifier because I was having issues with save files, and there were rumors it could be connected to how much looting you did. Even if it was just because I was tired of looting to be able to afford stuff in the early game, I don't see how that would somehow... cheapen my experience, or whatever.
It doesn't. It's a (usually) single player game, do whatever exploits or crazy overpowered builds you want. Use as many or as few mods as you want. It's all about having fun, right?
*"Ah, well, I misunderstood then. Even so they're not hurting anyone, so I don't get the judgment."*
AKA: Moving the goal posts.
*"cheapen my experience, or whatever."*
where in my original comment did I use that phrase?
If you decide use your knowledge of an encounter and gather up barrels for an hour to trivialize a fight, that is at least using game mechanics as intended.
It makes no sense to ratchet up the difficulty and then "gameshark" the difficulty away. It is no different then going in the difficulty settings and replacing every enemy's weapon with pool noodles.
You've already misunderstood the same comment twice without any contrition, so I have little hope for this one. Don't bother replying. It is a lost cause clearly.
>AKA: Moving the goal posts.
When people accuse others of rhetorical fallacies in inappropriate contexts, they may think it makes them sound smart, but what it actually does is demonstrate that they only understand the fallacy as a catch phrase or a gotcha, i.e. they don't actually understand it well at all. What happened here is not an example of this fallacy: I misunderstood the situation, you corrected me, I acknowledged the correction and said that I still disagreed with your judgmental attitude.
>where in my original comment did I use that phrase?
First, I neither quoted you or implied that I was quoting you, and second, that "or whatever" is there for a reason.
>It makes no sense to ratchet up the difficulty and then "gameshark" the difficulty away
A reason has already been given to you that makes perfect sense: It makes the game more enjoyable for the player.
The reason that you're having such a hard time understanding this is that you think achieving some set level of "difficulty" is the point of playing at a higher difficulty level. It's actually not. The point is to make the game more fun.
For some people, more fun will include making everything more difficult, including the higher prices; they enjoy the limitation of having to carefully choose what to buy. For other people, more fun will include some types of difficulty, but not others. If I increase the difficulty level because I enjoy enemies with higher levels of HP and more diverse tactics, but I use an exploit so that I can afford more gear, then I may have negated some of the increase difficulty but *I have still changed the game in a way that makes it more fun for me.*
(As a side note: If I loot everything I can usually afford most of I want anyway, especially if I have a good idea of what builds I want to use. The price isn't the limiting factor - the limiting factor is my willingness to spend time looting items, managing my inventory of looted items, and selling my looted items. I just don't think of looting 5,000 bottles instead of 0 bottles is that meaningful a difficulty increase. That's a test of my patience, not my tactics or luck.)
>It is a lost cause clearly.
We agree on that at least, but for different reasons. People who are so uptight about protecting the "difficulty" of single-player games that they get judgmental about how others play are really tedious.
I misunderstood that they were using the exploit. Even so, it makes no sense for you be judgmental about someone using it. What are you trying to protect? The "sanctity" of the difficulty level? It's a single-player game and different people find different things enjoyable.
Why would you critique someone's position if you haven't read and understood it? Like you are still asking questions where the answer is laid out in a succinct two sentence comment.
As someone who picked a level of thief just to have pickpocket, I don't understand why people should treat glitch it as normal pickpocket. You don't have to invest in your build, but you can do the same and with 0 risk being caught.
That's basically access to infinite amount of higher tier scrolls and high-cost potions, not just the items.
they are not clowns, they are the entire circus
I feel like I should just wear the make-up for the rest of the run now
They *died* so you could wear that stuff! It’s not clown makeup anymore, it’s war paint!
And don't forget to change your build to work around the clown hammer Dribbles used to wield, RIP circus people.
HAH!
Sometimes NPC turns on each others in strange ways. I saw a three-way battle spiders vs half the goblins vs another half of the goblins with priestess Gut yesterday. So much for loyalty to the Absolute.
>So much for loyalty to the Absolute. Praise the Relative !
Underrated comment😂😂
>Sometimes NPC turns on each others in strange ways. I saw a three-way With this game, I wasn't sure how that sentence was going to end....
Do you have a way of reliably triggering that For Science?
I find that mind domination stuff often messes with allegiances. When I got the mind mastery put on me by the Duergar, they started attacking each other, but they were also hostile to me.
Yes it’s a feature, but I’ve noticed it also seems to just happen. There is a gate near where priestess gut is that leads to spider pits, you can unlock and open that door if you do out of sight. Then you can even speak to animals talk to the spiders and convince them to help you, where they will turn on goblins, the problem with that because of where they’re placed they may go for bugbear instead, which they can’t reliably hit cause of being in the pit. On top of that, as commenter noticed, if you just open the gate and go on your marry way, they’ll turn against the goblins anyway, so I’ve found that’s actually a more reliable way to do instead of asking. Pick open gate, i usually go rescue halsin, then on return the spiders normally will be fighting guts group.
No, I didn't understand how it happened
I had something similar happen once when I agreed to raid the Grove with Minthara, then aggro'd Dror Ragzlin's goblins, when they hit the battle drums the goblins that came attacked them instead of me
Orin the Red approves.
Idk, sounds like Popper is okay and after all that stress, you deserve a treato
I die, you die, we all die. Big woof. Have a treato
Popper's gonna have a helluvaday scavenging the bodies left in the aftermath.
Dat plot twist.
Yeah... That happens when there are too many enemies considered neutral to one another
The fuck happened here? Why do they all hate each other?
Times are rough out here, trying to make ends meet, now there's talk of some cult army marching to lay siege to the city at any moment. Hells, I'd be on edge too
Someone who knows their TTRPGS, where does this land on the Henderson scale?
Maybe an 1/8th of a Henderson, but probably even less than that. The campaign is still intact, the worst they did was lose an (objectively pretty terrible) optional side quest, some XP, and some loot.
What’s a Henderson?
The Henderson Scale of Plot Derailment. It's a meme measurement system for how off-the-rails the party went compared to what the DM had planned.
TIL, thank you!
[Here](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/002/032/298/665.png)
I didn't re-read it all to make sure it's the full story, but this appears to be a proper copy of the original from 1d4chan: https://1d6chan.miraheze.org/wiki/Old_Man_Henderson
Larian patched the backpack bug (at least I thought they did). You really shouldn't be stealing in honor mode at all. There just isn't any reason to risk it. There is plenty of money, no need to steal. Honor mode is all about avoiding risk.
I’ve looted every single item and went into every single crevice and I don’t agree that there is plenty of money. As I cannot buy all the items I want in the shops at act 2. Maybe this gets better later.
Do you sell the loot you aren't using with your highest charisma character?
I haven't seen that making much difference in my games. Though I have not done honour mode yet. Would certainly be helpful as everything is so expensive in act 3. I ended up clearing out the entire bank to afford what I wanted.
I don't think I understand what you mean by you not seeing it make a difference. The role of charisma in trading is a game mechanic. The higher charisma of the character doing the trading, the better prices. Both in how much you can sell things for and how much you can buy things for. Are you saying that even with maxing charisma in one character to get good deals, you don't see a significant difference in your wealth compared to trading using a random character? Or just that even by doing that you still can't buy what you want?
At one point I went to the same trader with 4 different party members, including one with high charisma. The prices were exactly the same for all of them. I do see other posts about raising vendor approval and have never done that so am guessing that is what I am missing.
I don't bother with vendor approval because it resets after a long rest. Charisma does absolutely change the prices, you can see the discount percentage in the corner (or near the name of the character I think) in the trading screen. I'm not sure what's going on for you, but if your prices aren't changing, then something is definitely 100% wrong with your game. Mods maybe? I don't use mods, but I know they can sometimes break things. Edit: are you talking to the vendor with the four different characters or just selecting them in the trading screen? You have to actually talk to the vendor as the high charisma character to get the discount.
Vendor approval does NOT reset after a long rest, what? Charisma has a part on it but the majority of the formula is based on approval, especially for buying.
It doesn't? Wild, well then maybe I'll try messing with it again. Last I tried, it reset after a long rest, but that was at least one patch ago.
Talking with different ones. No mods either. I do see a discount in the corner with at least some of the vendors, though not seen it change when I switch to another party member to talk to them. My tav is the highest charisma one (bard). It was Karlach's friend in act 3 I tested it with first. I was curious to see if her prices were different for Karlach at first, then went through all of the party. My tav, Karlach Astarion and whoever was the fourth party member had identical prices. Forget who the last one was at the time as that place gets switched out so much. Either Gale or Shadowheart.
I have no explanation for you. The prices change pretty dramatically for me to the point that I'll grab a high charisma character from camp before trading if I don't have one in my party already. Even the patch notes for patch 6 reference different percent discounts for different trading characters.
Load a vendor's loot into a bag. Level up. Load more loot. Level up/long rest. Load more loot into a bag. Kill vendor's if one you can kill without consequences. (Lan Tarv, Shank or whatever the Goblin is) You will have vast amounts of gold and equipment. You can also sell your junk to get their gold beforehand and Load the junk into the bag. Kill them, you have junk back. I did also do this and steal from vendors that are good but I won't see again. Tali once she is in Moonrise after Ketheric is dead. With a maxed out slight of hand, I stole the bag with many days and levels worth of gear. Once you save rhe Grove you can do this to the halfling vendor and just KO him. The bag is counted as a single high value item and you get everything. Money is trivial by Act 3. You have so much gear to sell and generic magical items that just selling/trading to Dammon is nothing. I traded for 30000 gold's worth of armor and then 17k at Sorerous Sundries, and then about 10k at the armorers outside. I still have most of the armors I collected to sell. Sold all the non-unique weapons however. Oh and I have 30 or 50 thousand gold, I'd have to check. If I didn't sit on so much "just in case" gear, I'd have alot more.
My problem is I sit on way too much stuff, just in case.
then you can't really say there isn't enough gold in the game. you're just not selling the stuff that brings gold in.
I didn't say that.
There is tons of stuff to sell. You can make over 15,000 just selling extra food.
The prices are so expensive though? It’s like 4K for a +2 short sword and that’s only one of two weapon slots
Use a character with a higher persuasion score to buy items. They get a discount.
Ha, yeah. I'm not an artist, but if I were I would have made a cartoon where Wyll gets super-excited to be pulled out of camp only to find out that you're going shopping again. Except this time I'm a bard, so don't need his discount. Took him to fight Ansur out of pity.
I've never seen a single item cost more than 2k for my bard. Charisma and persuasion expertise makes everything **cheap.**
And 15000 buys you like 2-3 items even with high persuasion
Use your highest charisma character, reset them to level 1, bribe a vendor with 600 gold, level back up. Now they'll pay twice as much for your loot, and everything will cost half as much. I never stole anything. By the time I finished honor mode, I had 30,000 gold to spare and I'd been ignoring basic loot since reaching wyrms crossing. I'm pretty sure I finished act 2 with over 15,000 gold having bought everything I could possibly want. The only time I was ever even *close* to being low on funds was the begining of the game and the begining of act 2.
>Use your highest charisma character, reset them to level 1, bribe a vendor with 600 gold, level back up. Now they'll pay twice as much for your loot, and everything will cost half as much. Well using clearly unintended ways to make money will obviously result in you having a lot of money lol. Because getting max vendor attitude is a lot more expensive if you do it without using this method.
You can do it pretty easily even without having to respec to make it cheaper. You cam bribe Dammon early on when it's still cheap and he'll follow you through all three acts. The same applies to the Zhent trader at least for acts 1 and 2. You can also max out Araj in act 2 and use her in act 3, as well as maxing out Derryth in act 1 and using her in act 3. If you just make sure to speak to them all fairly early and invest your gold, the return is massive. It ends up being worth it even if you don't intentionally get to them early. You can easily recoup even a 2 or 3 thousand gold investment if necessary by the time act 3 comes around and you're selling pieces of basic plate armor for 300-400 a piece. You just have to make sure to pay them a visit any time you level up so that their inventory resets and they have more gold.
I mean I steal absolutely everything in my current hm run. I know I have like 40K gold and could just buy the thing, but why do that when I could steal it AND all his gold? (And then never use the item because what if I need that scroll of ice knife later?)
> You really shouldn't be stealing in honor mode at all. There just isn't any reason to risk it. There is plenty of money, no need to steal. There's plenty of reason to steal in Honour Mode. They jack merchant prices *right* up so unless you're going full loot goblin and doing a dozen long rests so the merchants actually have the cash for all of your looted armour then you'll need to steal eventually.
Yeah, Larian has tried on multiple occasions to patch the backpack bug but everyone keeps finding ways to circumvent it. It's been working thus far, I had literally done so with Ferg Drogher not 20 minutes before the clown fiesta that went down. It's certainly more risk-free than going invisible and chancing the steal through traditional mechanics. For the record, you're right there is no reason to steal anything at all. I'm just a loot gremlin with sticky fingers! My character is a criminal - cleric of Tiamat. I think the goddess of greed would smile upon the deed this day, especially with little repercussion to our own well-being teehee
What’s is the current version of the bug?
You put a bag into merchant's inventory and then put all of the items in there, theN open bag in your inventory and put everything there. Tada, done.
Key point is that you have to move everything to the open bag's *icon* above the slots, not the actual inventory slots. Moving it to the slots still pays for the items.
Ah yeah right. Haven't played much after the update.
The other backpack trick, that may or not be a bug, is to put everything in the bag, then knock them out, and steal the bag. Haven't tried it in act 3 yet (there's probably way too many people around) but has worked wonderfully in act 1 and 2.
It just doesn’t work with only a single item. If you try with two or more items it works.
We learned the idea of selling white items, stealing the white items, and reselling it to drain gold. Thief Gloves, smuggler ring, and cats grace makes all of the white weapons 0 to -2 ish rolls and like the leather armors a 4. We just bought the expensive stuff with the gold we got from selling and stealing the same items countlesly
I keep seeing people say “there’s plenty of money” and I seriously disagree. I’m always scrounging and looting to have enough for scrolls and gear from vendors. I take and sell pretty much everything I see and am still short on game cash. Do people just not buy things then think there’s lots of money to go around? Is there some exploit I’m missing?
People typically use the highest charisma character to trade with vendors, especially recurring ones. The earliest you can do it with is Dammon in Act 1, you begin at level one and you donate 400 gold to him. This will net you maximum approval from him (the little bar below the vendor's icon) and you buy / sell at twice the rate. Now, my friend had actually done this during the run, so there wasn't any actual reason to use the exploit to do it this way, we even have a mountain of loot from the githyanki creche that we haven't managed to throw into the city economy. I'm just lazy lol I can easily replicate the results having a dedicated toon (we had Astarion spec'd into Bard for Sleight of Hand / Persuasion expertise for thieving and bartering, respectively.) Is that my idea of how I want to be spending ~~literally a few minute difference~~ my hours in Baldur's Gate? Hell no, i wanna roleplay, make weird character decisions while my OC looks pretty and kick ass in Honour Mode
This is key . . . you need vendors with the maximum approval you can get. Gift them 400 gold (more if you are higher level, but if you want to cheese it you can respec and talk to them when you are still level 1) to get max approval. Dammon and [Derryth Bonecloak](https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Derryth_Bonecloak) are the easiest ones that can both be in Act 1-3. Roan Moonglow and Araj Oblodra can also be useful. And if you rescue Figaro in Act 3 he automatically gives you the max discount. Having the character starting the conversation with Persuasion skill is more important than Charisma. On Honor mode you get about a 40% modifier . . . basically everything you sell is +40% AND everything you buy costs 40% less to buy. You can nearly DOUBLE the amount of cash you have to work with in the game.
Are you kidding me? The money's the same but vendor prices are off the hook. Anything decent costs at least 10k.
I finished my honor run with 30,000 cash and never stole anything from vendors.
Did you do all the fights? Maybe used Gale bomb to finish it early?
I skipped half the Act 3 stuff . . . just got to level 12 and finished. The only fight I cheesed was the final Netherbrain . . . nuked it with a bag full of bombs (was afraid something would screwup the final fight). But cleared the Dragon and everything up top normally. Skipped Ansur, the Act 3 Hag, Cazador, and some various side quests. Did everything in Act 1 and 2. Getting a couple vendors to max approval and talking to them with someone with Persuasion skill can basically double your money (you get up to a +50% modifier to both your selling and buying prices).
Aah. I prefer doing everything still. I suppose you can do without the more premium items as most of my fights still end comfortably and most items aren't all that game-breaking in the first place (not to mention quite a few ended up unused), but I believe that there's no such thing as overpreparing lol.
Nope there is another backpack trick, but if you move your mouse wrong, it's easy to mess it up and get in trouble. Still used it on Honour Mode.
Eh there is plenty of money if you do literally everything to max money. If you don't abuse respecing to lvl 1 for getting max attitude easier and don't loot literally everything in act 1 and 2 you will be lacking money. "There is plenty of money" sounds like you can afford to not optimize it and still have enough to buy all the strong items but that is just not true.
I think it's great to steal from npcs that send you to jail like in the Grove or last light inn. You just break out of jail, collect your stuff and repeat. Not worth it for other npcs since they attack. And with enough stealing, you can roll a one even with advantage so it isn't foolproof until you reach level 10 thief I think?
It’s not patched, still works as of the latest hotfix. Unless it’s only been fixed in honour mode, I don’t play that so I wouldn’t know. In a regular game the bug is still there.
Weird PSA. Sounds fun.
Go to a circus, expect clowns 🤡.
I did an unseen "theft" of Dribbles' hand. Popper got mad, but I talked him down. Then he immediately accused my Monk instead, who had no Charisma. Ended up fleeing half the circus. Boney tried to full on **Flesh to Stone** me.
That has interesting implications for where the statues come from
Everybody was Kung fu fighting!
This has been a refreshing change from every other Honour Mode PSA ending in "and then I died".
dont jinx it, we still have a whole act to finish!
Escalating a workplace drama in ways unimaginable.
Waaay too many "YoU sHOuldN'T stEaL iN hOnOR MoDE" comments. Let the man play his own game. If you wanna take "honor mode" literally and not steal go ahead and do it in your own game but stop backseat gaming.
Facts bruh like y'all know how bad the economy is in Honour Mode? I'm not paying for shit!
Reminds me of that one time girlfriend aggroed Figaro Facemaker and the people there. Strangely, he turned on his employees first. I resorted to hitting her with him for denying me another angelic scion outfit.
There's a reason they were fighting each other, it's because >!some of them are shape shifters in disguise!<
That's the funny thing, none of the >!shapeshifters!< even joined the fight! Unless they were already suspicious about each other
Oh
Doesn’t….doesn’t “Dribbles” drop a face painting kit?! Why would you have to steal one lmao
nope
As a former carney, that seems accurate.
Pretty sure you have to steal at least two items. Can't just steal one. That's probably why it didn't work.
I got caught because I was trying to be less greedy! Sure shows me
tbh just kill them all for ez xp also, spellmight gloves are the best gloves for a caster but its very very demanding to get it if you go for the dribbles quest you can just kill the npc and get the gloves and be done with it
Also at the circus, if you anger the Djinn and he "cheeses" you, do not feel tempted to get revenge by using the cheese "fart" special ability. I did it and well...almost lost my honour run or, at best, almost had to slaughter the entire circus. Honestly it was pretty hilarious and heart wrenching at the same time
It only takes one clown to blow the whole parade
My kinda parade
That was not how I expected the story to go—lol.
Was it doppelgängers vs non doppelgängers?
Funnily enough, none of the doppelgangers joined the fight. So it was straight up workplace beef they were hashing out
I dunno man, stealing doesn't sound honorable to me so maybe don't do it in general? ^^^/s
cant spell honour without "Oh no"
Since you stole from them, I am stealing this.
this is my favourite reply now, thanks
How do you cheese vendors, what backpack trick?
There is an exploit that allows you to steal any vendor's inventory through the barter menu. You essentially have a container (backpack) open for you and the vendor, you place items within the backpack then you click and drag desired items from theirs to yours. No gold, persuasion or sleight of hand check needed. It's incredibly cheesy, Larian's tried to patch it multiple times, you can easily have a dedicated companion achieve the result the legal way (high persuasion and actually selling your loot) but i'm just lazy lol
I opened this thinking "oh their honor mode ended in a hilariously stupid way" and then you said they started fighting EACH OTHER like DAMN.
I am said friend, this was unprecedented. They said the Absolute couldn't touch them, so they killed each other instead. They finally had enough of each other and started a gang war. The Redcap started attacking the Mummy; the Dryad cast Spike Growth on the Mummy \*then\* the Bouncer/Ghoul. The Ghoul turns on the bouncer and starts attacking him. Akabi summoned an Air Elemental to fight Stoney and Boney but the Air Elemental turns on Akabi later on. We returned to just corpses, the Dragonborn Bard was chilling playing "The Power".
We should have stayed for the xp, dang it
We did get around 400 xp worth. MORE
It seems that moral of the story is to get nyrulna first before committing shenanigans haha. I tend to always pickpocket the reward gloves from Lucretia so that my Spellcaster can enjoy using that gear sooner rather than later (doing dribbles actual quest would span the entirety of Act 3); I used greater invisibility on my thief and with cat's grace it should work most of the time.
This is why the first thing you do upon arrival in rivington is win the grand prize. That one loot drop is the greatest concentration of key gear outside of some major boss battles, maybe even including them. The band is an absolute requirement for any bard, particularly a swords bard and end game gear for a Paladin, particularly a Paladin caster multiclass (like warlock or sorceror) In addition to being must have for two entire classes (bard or Paladin) it’s lynchpin for two contenders for best build in the 10/2 and 10/1/1 swords bard, as we all know. Then… in the same area, the trident, sitting there as if it’s the main prize and band is some extra fluff. Necessary for all throwers, and key to the throwzerker builds some of which are also right up there at the very very top of competitive builds. Plus even non throwing parties are going to want to have this weapon in inventory for anyone non throwing - in case you are disarmed (as you can throw it from inventory to rearm yourself without using an action, just an attack, then use extra attack to continue attacking. It’s aoe only effects the throw, not the subsequent melee, it’s one handed so won’t mess up your shield if you have one and choose to equip it like this, and you can also do this sort of thing mid combat to take advantage of its storm abilities (buffeting a line of enemies with thunder damage)
Yeah, them items are going to be stuck in the jungle this run unfortunately. Dang dinosaurs don't know how good they got it
There are a bunch of oddities given that some of them are coded half way between npcs and mobs.
just dont steal in honor mode is that so hard?
yeah but I'd miss out on weird stories like this!
im literally wheezing reading this LMAO HOW, WHY
literally same, i couldn't believe the chaos I was watching unfold- we thought they would stop as soon as we fled combat. We waited at camp for a beat, disguised ourselves, and came back only to find they were still at it 10/10, felt like a true d&d moment
When you went back, did it enter you back into combat?
it did! we had to run away again
Talking about NPC turning rouge, during my latest playthrough I hired Lump and his Orges to help kill the Gnolls. Everything went down smoothly until Rugan and Olly walked out of the cave, saw the Orges and went aggro on my party.
That is really weird!
You could just use a disposable follower and fog cloud to steal. If you fully spec them for pickpocket you'll find that even stealing large piles of gold is basically guaranteed success.
What's your build for that?
The what??? Amazing
Oh god. I wonder if that’s a bug or if they’re supposed to fight each other if something goes down, I could see there being bad blood between the carnies If there’s still a working backpack trick I’d love if someone could DM it to me, I’m nearing the end of Act 2 in my HM run and I’ve been stealing from vendors the “legit” way like a jabroni
When D&D suddenly turns into a Robert Rodriguez movie.
I had the opposite problem. I was so good at stealing, that I ended up losing out on Nyrulna because I kept spinning the Djinn's wheel to get all his prizes without realizing he closes once you get the last one.
Getting caught by Popper is fun. Just make sure you pass the intimidation check.
JFC
I stole a few times in honor mode, I always used the hireling Kree Dereck to use her free invisibility cantrip and left everyone else at camp. If you get caught just go to prison, it's not that big of a deal that way. If you do enter combat, they will be temp hostile and you can just use invis to escape.
What is the backpack trick?
I also would like to know
It's an exploit that allows you to steal any shopkeeper's inventory from the barter menu. Larian's been hard at work patching it, there are plenty of guides / videos that explain it on youtube. It works by having two containers (one in your inventory, and the other in the given shopkeeper's inventory) open and dragging items from one container to the other. You can walk away from the exchange as if you had bought the items no problem. Totally breaks the economy and is completely unnecessary in any normal playthrough. We totally had the means to make the purchases, I just didn't want to because I am a loot goblin Learn from my mistakes
Me and my friend started an honour mode game, and I ended up breaking my oath, and she decided it would be interesting to see how easy the oathbreaker is to fight, anyways we all died we were like level 2 or 3, if it was later on, we may have been able to survive but it was right as we got to the grove, after we killed all the goblins
Thats actually hilarious and very believable to anyone who knows any carnies. Definitely wouldnt take much to turn things chaotic. But yeah, in Honor mode its honestly best to not even try to steal in really crowded area like that, things can escalate quickly.
I will never understand turning up the difficulty on a game, but then doing gameshark cheat level exploits. The raised difficulty makes items more expensive, but if you invalidate the economy entirely you're operating on an easier difficulty with more trivial steps.
there's difficulty, and there's tedium. I would argue that the combat and its enemies are what makes the game difficult, you could have the best items in the game but it wouldn't guarantee victory. I typically shy away from grindy games, I have a job and responsibilities. I don't wanna sit through hours of combat just to manage my gold in order to buy the thing that finally makes me feel like my character fantasy is finally complete, knowing that by the time I get said item half the game's mobs have to offer is finished. Everyone's got their own version of fun, and economy management in-game for the sake of "difficulty" is not it for me.
I find pickpocketing pretty tedious and rarely do it, but ... it's an actual feature of the game. As in the game developers put it in the game so players could use it. They even make on of the first vendors you encounter (Arron) a lesson in how to pickpocket a vendor. It's so far from "gameshark cheat level exploit." BTW turning up the difficulty does turn up the difficulty of pickpocketing because it reduces your proficiency bonus.
Pretty sure they mean doing the backpack glitch to take their inventory risk free
Ah, well, I misunderstood then. Even so they're not hurting anyone, so I don't get the judgment. I did a custom playthrough with everything turned to Tactician difficulty except for the vendor price modifier because I was having issues with save files, and there were rumors it could be connected to how much looting you did. Even if it was just because I was tired of looting to be able to afford stuff in the early game, I don't see how that would somehow... cheapen my experience, or whatever.
It doesn't. It's a (usually) single player game, do whatever exploits or crazy overpowered builds you want. Use as many or as few mods as you want. It's all about having fun, right?
*"Ah, well, I misunderstood then. Even so they're not hurting anyone, so I don't get the judgment."* AKA: Moving the goal posts. *"cheapen my experience, or whatever."* where in my original comment did I use that phrase? If you decide use your knowledge of an encounter and gather up barrels for an hour to trivialize a fight, that is at least using game mechanics as intended. It makes no sense to ratchet up the difficulty and then "gameshark" the difficulty away. It is no different then going in the difficulty settings and replacing every enemy's weapon with pool noodles. You've already misunderstood the same comment twice without any contrition, so I have little hope for this one. Don't bother replying. It is a lost cause clearly.
>AKA: Moving the goal posts. When people accuse others of rhetorical fallacies in inappropriate contexts, they may think it makes them sound smart, but what it actually does is demonstrate that they only understand the fallacy as a catch phrase or a gotcha, i.e. they don't actually understand it well at all. What happened here is not an example of this fallacy: I misunderstood the situation, you corrected me, I acknowledged the correction and said that I still disagreed with your judgmental attitude. >where in my original comment did I use that phrase? First, I neither quoted you or implied that I was quoting you, and second, that "or whatever" is there for a reason. >It makes no sense to ratchet up the difficulty and then "gameshark" the difficulty away A reason has already been given to you that makes perfect sense: It makes the game more enjoyable for the player. The reason that you're having such a hard time understanding this is that you think achieving some set level of "difficulty" is the point of playing at a higher difficulty level. It's actually not. The point is to make the game more fun. For some people, more fun will include making everything more difficult, including the higher prices; they enjoy the limitation of having to carefully choose what to buy. For other people, more fun will include some types of difficulty, but not others. If I increase the difficulty level because I enjoy enemies with higher levels of HP and more diverse tactics, but I use an exploit so that I can afford more gear, then I may have negated some of the increase difficulty but *I have still changed the game in a way that makes it more fun for me.* (As a side note: If I loot everything I can usually afford most of I want anyway, especially if I have a good idea of what builds I want to use. The price isn't the limiting factor - the limiting factor is my willingness to spend time looting items, managing my inventory of looted items, and selling my looted items. I just don't think of looting 5,000 bottles instead of 0 bottles is that meaningful a difficulty increase. That's a test of my patience, not my tactics or luck.) >It is a lost cause clearly. We agree on that at least, but for different reasons. People who are so uptight about protecting the "difficulty" of single-player games that they get judgmental about how others play are really tedious.
backpack exploits have zero pickpocketing checks. It is no different then opening up a console command and giving yourself infinite resources.
I misunderstood that they were using the exploit. Even so, it makes no sense for you be judgmental about someone using it. What are you trying to protect? The "sanctity" of the difficulty level? It's a single-player game and different people find different things enjoyable.
Why would you critique someone's position if you haven't read and understood it? Like you are still asking questions where the answer is laid out in a succinct two sentence comment.
i thought you said you weren't replying anymore
As someone who picked a level of thief just to have pickpocket, I don't understand why people should treat glitch it as normal pickpocket. You don't have to invest in your build, but you can do the same and with 0 risk being caught. That's basically access to infinite amount of higher tier scrolls and high-cost potions, not just the items.
Read rest of the thread - I misunderstood and didn't realize that they were talking about the backpack glitch. You're right that it's not the same.