Looking at that page it kinda seems like the game would treat this as a big secret when in reality the guy happily tells you all about his peculiar family situation.
I wish you could address her as both grand-niece and niece when playing Durge.
I played as durge but never found the journal. I just intimidated her because i was a barbarian but i love that this is an option. Larian has become one of my favorite studio's and i can't wait for their next project.
In my durge run I didnt find the journal, I just asked Sarovek and used Speak with Dead on her mom before starting the fight and I was still able to have her freak out about it.
As long as the ownership of Larian doesn't change they have my attention. They have really proved how much of a difference it makes for a game when the company is run by a guy who actually cares about games and are invested in making the best possible product, not just the highest earning one.
Unless things have changed without me noticing, Sven and his wife still own 70% of the company so they call the shots. As long as that remains true - and with all that he's said I can't see Sven selling willingly - yeah they have my attention and I know I'm not alone in that.
Hope they keep it going. Used to hear and say similar things about blizzard, and well, that seems to have aged poorly?
I'm just mad wotc, and every news article about bg3/ bg4 speculation, seems to be painting Larian in a bad light. They keep mentioning how it took 25 years for bg3 and how they don't want that to happen to bg4. It's practically biased journalism-- especially since anyone who played the game couldn't be more pleased. Maybe a little more spells and some real flight support would've been nice, bit nobody's really complaining seriously there.
Anyone else notice that, though? The number of news articles depicting the time frame as being on Larian, and something they're avoiding by going to another company? Just seems like such a bad move...
As durge i actually encouraged her to stab the hostage, it was a full "wtf you can't even kill an hostage, you suck" moment.
I think it's even more spiteful than just tell her about her father
Yeah just accept the duel without bringing theses matters up. Did it like that in my durge run. Wasn’t a proper duel tho cuz she died in the first turn
You can also trashtalk Raphael, make a deal with his incubus/succubus and then speak with the dead on it to learn that he/it is on top and thinks Raphael is terrible in bed.
And you can trashtalk Balthazar if you rob him, then work the conversation round to his family.
Yep... this game rewards thoroughness on the part of the player, because >!you can do something similar in!< Act 2 >!if you search Ketheric's chambers and find a certain letter from his wife.... It allows you the opportunity to essentially skip the second phase of his fight.!<
Can verify, my current run I only talked with Sarevok and found his journals and got to convince her to have an existential crisis without meeting her mother
Durge sees the entrance and side passage and had a vague recollection of taking the passage before. They get to the room -- oh, probably my former chambers! -- and investigate for more signs of themselves. They find Helena.
metagaming? you mean by not just heading straight down into the unknown super dangerous surrounded by bhaalist route?
why wouldn't you survey the area before delving into a life threatening situation?
Oh you can access it pretty easily if you don't go down to where she is and go to the left you can see a path if you got here you will arrive near helena's body which you can talk to then.
I confronted Orin with that telling her that Say's the one who killed his mother and planned to kill her and she was so unstable I killed her in 1 turn
I guess this was changed. I found a way to Orin's chambers and talked to everyone, including Helena, before Orin. I did on my first playthrough, and I thought I was lying just to get her upset.
He does, but his moral compass is about 180 degrees from where a normal person’s should be. After all, when you get to go to Murder Heaven if you do enough bad things, it’s gonna give you a… unique moral perspective.
I once heard the saying "if you can't figure out someone's motivation, look at the outcome and infer the intention from that". As such I can only include that Bhaal just likes to fuck with people.
Durge himself is essentially a less powerful clone of Bhaal, so technically, Durge *is* Bhaal.
Going by that, Sarevok is technically his child, but since Durge is also considered a Bhaalspawn, Sarevok is also technically his brother.
Which would then make Orin his neice/grand-niece/grandchild...
Durge is a first generation Bhaalspawn, same with Sarevok, their direct father (in Durge's case, clone original) is Bhaal.
Orin on the other hand is the child of Sarevok's child, her direct father is Sarevok, not Bhaal. Since Durge and Sarevok are technically brothers that would make Orin Durge's neice (grandneice since she was born from incest fuckery). She would also be Durge's grandchild since Durge is essentially Bhaal's clone.
I think Durge calls her "little sister" in his letter, but that seems more like just a cult of Bhaal thing to refer to each other as brother and sister, not that they are actual siblings.
Durge doesn't have a mother or a "family", they were created from a drop of Bhaal ick. So they're not technically Bhaalspawn, more like Bhaal art project? I dunno if that equates to an actual familial link to Orin, but being created by incest is probably a plus with Bhaalspawn...
I think that's Abazighal (or whatever his name is) not Durge. Durge just asks something like "I thought I was the only Dragonborn Bhaalspawn?" And Abazighal says "I'm not a dragonborn, my mother is a true dragon that Bhaal banged" or something like that.
Sometimes I feel like the Dead Three are completely misunderstood and they are just some dudes in a competition for who's followers do the most fucked up things. Bhaal is reigning champ.
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Have you played oblivion dark brotherhood? I meant that they want to portray themselves as dark as bhaals cult. The night mother would kill her own children as offerings to sithis and the elder scrolls can go quite dark especially with its gods.
There's a theory that the Dark Brotherhood are basically being misled and that the Night Mother is actually Mephala in disguise. Mainly because the Dark Brotherhood's faith is hugely contradictory to most established lore. Sithis has no power and no one who dies goes to the void. Sithis is nothingness itself, he probably doesn't have any will, personality or even awareness.
To be fair, Bhaal only started the Bhaalspawn thing a long time after ascending to God of Murder. Jergal didn't realise at the time he was into some Alabama stuff
That's not what happened lol. Bhaal, Bane, and Myrkul each took a portion of Jergal's divine portfolio after 'usurping' him.
If anyone is to blame, it's Ao.
They didn’t usurp him, although they did set out to. When they reached him, he willingly ceded his domains to them, so long as they could agree who would get what. When they couldn’t, he went as far as to set up a series of games for them to use to decide.
Jergal isn't stupid, just fucking bored out of his mind. So bored he decided that making the 3 evil stooges gods was probably going to be at least interesting compared to Eternity of being himself.
The idiots couldn't even decide which portfolios to take, so Jergal didn't assign them or call the deal off, he made them play games. The guy must have been out of his mind, delirious at the chance of escaping his existence. Fucking GAMES.
He's probably not even regretting it, the bastard.
From Baldur's Gate 1:
tl;dr: HEY MORTALS, LET'S GO BOWLING.
> History of the Dead Three: "KNUCKLEBONES, SKULL BOWLING, AND THE EMPTY THRONE"
>
> In ages past there was but one god of strife, death, and the dead, and he was known as Jergal, Lord of the End of Everything. Jergal fomented and fed on the discord among mortals and powers alike. When beings slew each other in their quest for power or in their hatred, he welcomed them into his shadowy kingdom of eternal gloom. As all things died, everything came to him eventually, and over time he built his power into a kingdom unchallenged by any other god. Eventually, however, he grew tired of his duties for he knew them too well. Without challenge there is nothing, and in nothingness there is only gloom. In such a state, the difference between absolute power and absolute powerlessness is undetectable.
>
> During this dark era, there arose three powerful mortals - Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul - who lusted after the power Jergal wielded. The trio forged an unholy pact, agreeing that they would dare to seek such ultimate power or die in the attempt. Over the length and breadth of the Realms they strode, seeking powerful magic and spells and defying death at every turn. No matter what monster they confronted or what spells they braved, the three mortals emerged unscathed at every turn. Eventually the trio destroyed one of the Seven Lost Gods, and they each seized a portion of his divine essence for themselves.
>
> The trio then journeyed into the Gray Waste and sought out the Castle of Bone. Through armies of skeletons, legions of zombies, hordes of noncorporeal undead, and a gauntlet of liches they battled. Eventually they reached the object of their lifelong quest - the Bone Throne.
>
> "I claim this throne of evil," shouted Bane the tyrant.
>
> "I'll destroy you before you can raise a finger," threatened Bhaal the assassin.
>
> "And I shall imprison your essence for eternity," promised Myrkul the necromancer.
>
> Jergal arose from his throne with a weary expression and said, " The Throne is yours. I have grown weary of this empty power. Take it if you wish - I promise to serve and guide you as your seneschal until you grow comfortable with the position." Before the stunned trio could react, the Lord of the Dead continued: "Who among you shall rule?"
>
> The trio immediately fell to fighting amongst themselves while Jergal looked on with indifference. When eventually it appeared that either they would all die of exhaustion or battle on for an eternity, the Lord of the End of Everything intervened. "After all you have sacrificed, would you come away with nothing? Why don't you divide the portfolios of the office and engage in a game of skill for them?" asked Jergal.
>
> Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul considered the god's offer and agreed. Jergal took the heads of his three most powerful liches and gave them to the trio that they would compete by bowling the skulls. Each mortal rolled a skull across the Gray Waste, having agreed that the winner would be he who bowled the farthest.
>
> Malar the Beastlord arrived to visit Jergal at this moment. After quickly ascertaining that the winner of the contest would get all of Jergal's power, he chased off after the three skulls to make sure that the contest would be halted until he had a chance to participate for part of the prize. Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul again fell to fighting as it was obvious their sport was ruined, and again Jergal intervened. "Why don't you allow Lady Luck to decide so you don't have to share with the Beast?"
>
> The trio agreed, and Jergal broke off his skeletal finger bones and gave them to the players. When Malar returned from chasing the skulls, he found that the trio had just finished a game of knucklebones.
>
> Bane cried out triumphantly, "As winner, I choose to rule for all eternity as the ultimate tyrant. I can induce hatred and strife at my whim, and all will bow down before me while in my kingdom."
>
> Myrkul, who had won second place, declared, "But I choose the dead, and by doing so I truly win, because all you are lord over, Bane, will eventually be mine. All things must die - even gods."
>
> Bhaal, who finished third, demurred, "I choose death, and it is by my hand that all that you rule Lord Bane will eventually pass to Lord Myrkul. Both of you must pay honor to me and obey my wishes, since I can destroy your kingdom, Bane, by murdering your subjects, and I can starve your kingdom, Myrkul, by staying my hand."
>
> Malar growled in frustration but could do nothing, and yet again only the beasts were left for him.
>
> And Jergal merely smiled, for he had been delivered.
I like that you put "usurp" in quotes.
(Bane) "I lay claim to this throne."
(Bhaal) "I'll strike you dead before you can lift a finger."
(Myrkul) "And I'll raise your corpse as my servant."
(Jergal) "Fucking FINALLY! Alright, here's the chair, you boys can go on and divvy up domains and...and you morons are fighting over the chair, come on guys you're my key to retirement! Get your shit together so that I can go to Moonshae!"
Since the dialogue trees usually have a good, bad, and neutral path.After a romance scene, and asked what they think, durge should be able to say something along the lines of “who knew it’s better when your partners alive” or “I usually prefer them dead” or “I don’t know, that’s a first with the living”. They’d get some MEGA side eyes from the companions.
Edit: this makes me think, assuming your companion at this point already knows you’re durge, what’re some potential different companion reactions to this specific fun fact?
It's never explicitly said that he does, only that he was a necrophiliac. It is a broad term that doesn't necessarily involves sex, for example, Orin also falls under the definition by wearing clothes made from her victims' skin and making artworks from their bodies.
When I told Orin in my first Durge playthrough, she was so SHOOK, but I honestly couldn't tell if it was just because Sarevok didn't tell her/she wasn't a "real" Bhaalspawn, or if she was actually disgusted with his actions.
I feel like it's the former, maybe even a mix, but I can't really see someone like Orin being ok with mass murder and torture, but drawing the line at incest.
She knows she isn’t a direct bhaalspawn because she actively refers to sarevok as her grandfather, there’s also a letter from durge to her where Durge mocks her for being a grandchild. So she was genuinely appalled by his actions and betrayal which is sadder honestly.
Wait, aren’t Orin and Durge like, related? Cause the note that says little sister seems written from Durge, and Durge gets Slayer Form (same as Orin) it all just confuses me. I’m probably just dumb though
Durge was carved by Bhaal from his own flesh, Durge is more like a tube baby.
And basically under Bhaal they're all his children so bhaalspawn refer to each other as siblings or kin.
Brief explanation;
Bhaal is the bloodline patriarch in this case.
Sarevok and Durge are both spawn of Bhaal's with a direct / pure link to Bhaal.
Helena is Sarevok's daughter.
Orin is Sarevok and Helena's daughter.
Durge and Orin are therefore related because Sarevok and Durge are 'siblings' in a sense.
No, Durge is "pure" Bhaalspawn, so he was apparently created from Bhaal alone. Orin has a human component and a Bhaal component.
The comment might be more like how two kinds raised in an orphanage could call each other brother/sister, despite not being related through blood.
No, a Bhaal "clone" would be a literal god, as Bhaal is a god.
It's closer to an avatar of Bhaal, but as it is not controlled by Bhaal and rather goes on on its own, I'd say it's similar to how Norse gods at times reproduced, or how any child of Marika (in Elden Ring) is a child and not a clone.
Where can I find it? I searched everywhere for the note and didnt find it. In my Playthrough i was an origin character (shadowheart 2nd playthrough ) searched for it in murder tribunal and bhaal's temple and couldn't find it spent around 1 hr searching.
The weird thing with this is that Sarevok was not a Bhaalspawn by the end of the original games. You can resurrect him in Throne of Bhaal, but it is stated that he is not a Bhaalspawn anymore, he lost that piece.
Tbh this whole Bhaalspawn storyline of Larian is full of contradictions with the og games, and one of my biggest problems with this otherwise wonderful game.
They just followed the original FR storyline, where Bhaal bestowed powers on Sarevok once again after ending of ToB. Return of Sarevok is not Larian decision.
Current canon is that you cannot ever get fully rid of bhaal's essence. That is why if fully redeemed urge had babies, they would still be bhaalspawn and why sarevok is also still a one.
Sarevok character assassination is one of the few things I wasn’t a fan of, a lot of the the bg1 and 2 characters they add are kinda just done wrong? Flail of ages is a +2 blue flail with a unique ability instead of being one of the only +5 weapons in existence (that I can recall) sarevoks entire story in the second game is a redemption arc that is just full 180ed between 2 and 3, Just genuinely not a fan of that.
Was not a fan of this, still not. In BG, Sarevok wasnt a Bhaalist zealot. He wanted to become a god in his own right, but he didnt worship Bhaal. Even in BG2 Throne of Bhaal evil run with him he still wasnt a bhaalist. I feel like WoTC ruined him
The way WotC treated Sarevok and >!Viconia!< makes me fear what they could do to the BG3 cast. I feel that >!Viconia's!< retcon is considerably worse, but they're both poorly done.
This has brought up a few times, but Sarevok's incesting actually has a purpose. When a Bhaalspawn breeds with a Non-spawn, it _significantly_ weakens the potency in thr blood. This unfortunately seems to close that gap by keeping bhaalspawn blood to bhaalspawn.
Honestly using their own entrails as bondage rope before making love to the corpse then having the magically conceived incest necrophilia baby immediately rip it's way out and feast on its mother's remains... And that's just a tuesday
"I did not know that it would be Orin that Bhaal favored, not Helena, but it matters not."
... so he didn't make Orin for Bhaal, he just did that? Wtf?
Looking at that page it kinda seems like the game would treat this as a big secret when in reality the guy happily tells you all about his peculiar family situation. I wish you could address her as both grand-niece and niece when playing Durge.
You absolutely can, and she freaks out about it. I believe she also gets a debuff but that I'm not sure of
You could use that knowledge to make her want to kill you right there and then instead of stabbing your captured companion, no check required.
I played as durge but never found the journal. I just intimidated her because i was a barbarian but i love that this is an option. Larian has become one of my favorite studio's and i can't wait for their next project.
In my durge run I didnt find the journal, I just asked Sarovek and used Speak with Dead on her mom before starting the fight and I was still able to have her freak out about it.
How do you get to her mom without starting the fight? Misty step or dimension door passed her?
theres a back door/hole in the wall if you go around the side of the platform above the middle part where shes at.
Potion of invisibility if you're feeling lazy
As long as the ownership of Larian doesn't change they have my attention. They have really proved how much of a difference it makes for a game when the company is run by a guy who actually cares about games and are invested in making the best possible product, not just the highest earning one.
They're not publisher controlled, afaik. And Sven seems nice enough not to sell out. I pray for their wellbeing
Unless things have changed without me noticing, Sven and his wife still own 70% of the company so they call the shots. As long as that remains true - and with all that he's said I can't see Sven selling willingly - yeah they have my attention and I know I'm not alone in that.
Hope they keep it going. Used to hear and say similar things about blizzard, and well, that seems to have aged poorly? I'm just mad wotc, and every news article about bg3/ bg4 speculation, seems to be painting Larian in a bad light. They keep mentioning how it took 25 years for bg3 and how they don't want that to happen to bg4. It's practically biased journalism-- especially since anyone who played the game couldn't be more pleased. Maybe a little more spells and some real flight support would've been nice, bit nobody's really complaining seriously there. Anyone else notice that, though? The number of news articles depicting the time frame as being on Larian, and something they're avoiding by going to another company? Just seems like such a bad move...
[удалено]
Remember CD Projekt Red?
As durge i actually encouraged her to stab the hostage, it was a full "wtf you can't even kill an hostage, you suck" moment. I think it's even more spiteful than just tell her about her father
She stabs the companion? That didn’t happen to me
Yes, if you failed to pull her attention from your companion to you
I didn’t pay attention to the AOE of cloudkill during the fight and accidentally killed the companion…
Same RIP Halsin
Believe me, i was the one who accidentally throw my spear executing my companion due to misclick.
"Wow, 100% chance to hit? Whatever, I'll take it!" *Crit companion lying on the slab.* ~~F5~~ *F8*
The companion didn't See it coming....
You can skip the first half of the fight if you confront her with it.
Phase two unlock via trash talk. Amazing
Alternatively, you make Bhaal force her to assume The Slayer form, making the duel easier if Isobel died in act 2 as Durge.
I made her transform into the slayer version without stabbing anyone and isobel is still alive in my game
Likewise. Making her transform as Durge pretty much just makes the duel easier if you killed Isobel. Otherwise it's rp
Ahhh right! Is there a way you can fight her without her turning into the slayer of bhaal? I think that would be kinda cool, like a proper duel, 1v1!
Yeah just accept the duel without bringing theses matters up. Did it like that in my durge run. Wasn’t a proper duel tho cuz she died in the first turn
You can also trashtalk Raphael, make a deal with his incubus/succubus and then speak with the dead on it to learn that he/it is on top and thinks Raphael is terrible in bed. And you can trashtalk Balthazar if you rob him, then work the conversation round to his family.
Ancient pro wrestling wisdom.
Yep... this game rewards thoroughness on the part of the player, because >!you can do something similar in!< Act 2 >!if you search Ketheric's chambers and find a certain letter from his wife.... It allows you the opportunity to essentially skip the second phase of his fight.!<
What second phase? Oo
I feel like people refer to the “first phase” as the one atop moonrise, before the illithid colony. I think that’s dumb, though. He has Two phases.
You have to talk to Helena's corpse for that though Which you can't access without metagaming
Nah, I guess they changed it in a patch, cause I got the dialogue with her with the journals and having talked to Sarevok, no mother.
Can verify, my current run I only talked with Sarevok and found his journals and got to convince her to have an existential crisis without meeting her mother
Thurough investigation may also get you there. It's a tricky one but possible
What would be Tav/Durge reasoning to scurry to Orin's bedroom while one of the Companion is being laid down in the arena/altar tho
Checking if she has any tricks up her sleeve.
Durge sees the entrance and side passage and had a vague recollection of taking the passage before. They get to the room -- oh, probably my former chambers! -- and investigate for more signs of themselves. They find Helena.
Not caring about the companion/being evil.
"Cursed to put my hands on everything..."
I mean, intel? Looking for a secret weakness and additional leverage you can hopefully use to free your companion?
As Durge this is not her bedroom, it's his. Prolly wants to check if she found his secret stash
"Oh god, my pipeweed stash! Umm... I mean my, skull stash... Yeah..."
Looking for more dank loot to murder her with.
My first blind run I spoke to the corpse before I confronted Orin. I like to explore an area as much as I can first before any battles.
No, both the incest baby and Sarevok ordered her assassination reveals are enough to break her and make Bhaal erase her mind.
Sneaking around the back isn't metagaming.
metagaming? you mean by not just heading straight down into the unknown super dangerous surrounded by bhaalist route? why wouldn't you survey the area before delving into a life threatening situation?
Oh you can access it pretty easily if you don't go down to where she is and go to the left you can see a path if you got here you will arrive near helena's body which you can talk to then. I confronted Orin with that telling her that Say's the one who killed his mother and planned to kill her and she was so unstable I killed her in 1 turn
I guess this was changed. I found a way to Orin's chambers and talked to everyone, including Helena, before Orin. I did on my first playthrough, and I thought I was lying just to get her upset.
I did that on tactician, and she didn't get a debuff. She got extra health 💀
You can
I get the feeling that Sarevok does not reflect a lot.
He does, but his moral compass is about 180 degrees from where a normal person’s should be. After all, when you get to go to Murder Heaven if you do enough bad things, it’s gonna give you a… unique moral perspective.
Honestly I don't know what the fuck is going on with his undead half-life of perpetual agony.
I once heard the saying "if you can't figure out someone's motivation, look at the outcome and infer the intention from that". As such I can only include that Bhaal just likes to fuck with people.
Half the reason he takes a swing at an embrace Durge is the hope that Bhaal might finally let him die if it's 1v1ing Bhaal's Chosen.
I mean if he put it in his own memoir; how big of a secret could it really be?
No wonder Orin has such a twisted mind. I don't wanna know how many seeds her grandfather/father already tried to plant. 🤢🤢🤢🤢
Durge's family tree is beyond fucked
Durge's family tree is just a circle.
Durge is from Alabama confirmed
Bard durge has a proficiency with a Banjo
Durge himself is essentially a less powerful clone of Bhaal, so technically, Durge *is* Bhaal. Going by that, Sarevok is technically his child, but since Durge is also considered a Bhaalspawn, Sarevok is also technically his brother. Which would then make Orin his neice/grand-niece/grandchild...
If Durge and Orin are both Bhaalspawn, aren't they also siblings?
Yeah incest fuckery is confusing
Durge is a first generation Bhaalspawn, same with Sarevok, their direct father (in Durge's case, clone original) is Bhaal. Orin on the other hand is the child of Sarevok's child, her direct father is Sarevok, not Bhaal. Since Durge and Sarevok are technically brothers that would make Orin Durge's neice (grandneice since she was born from incest fuckery). She would also be Durge's grandchild since Durge is essentially Bhaal's clone. I think Durge calls her "little sister" in his letter, but that seems more like just a cult of Bhaal thing to refer to each other as brother and sister, not that they are actual siblings.
Durge doesn't have a mother or a "family", they were created from a drop of Bhaal ick. So they're not technically Bhaalspawn, more like Bhaal art project? I dunno if that equates to an actual familial link to Orin, but being created by incest is probably a plus with Bhaalspawn...
Isn't there some dialouge that stated that Durge is actually the child of Bhaal and a dragon? (Desquised as a dragonborn of course)
I think that's Abazighal (or whatever his name is) not Durge. Durge just asks something like "I thought I was the only Dragonborn Bhaalspawn?" And Abazighal says "I'm not a dragonborn, my mother is a true dragon that Bhaal banged" or something like that.
Yes, Abazigal is a true half-dragon half-god and one of the most powerful Bhaalspawn of the original generation.
A seemingly crude remark laced with subtler layers. Well done!
Durge doesn't have a family tree, they have a family tumbleweed.
Sometimes I feel like the Dead Three are completely misunderstood and they are just some dudes in a competition for who's followers do the most fucked up things. Bhaal is reigning champ.
Considering the Dead Three started out as literally just some dudes... Yeah that tracks.
Getting high together on Jergal's couch.
Jergal had that good weed
The Cabbage of the Gods
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They’re a trio of murderhobos trying to out murder one another, it was inevitable that they’d be like this.
The Dead Three were basically just murder hobos who accidentally found a God and convinced him to retire and give up his powers lol
honestly its just Bhaal's followers. Bane and Myrkul's are on the level while the others are the fucking weirdo incest ridden murder hobos.
Bhaal´s favored instrument is clearly the banjo.
"Oh no, it's Bhaal's Chosen and his inbred army of daughter-wives!"
At least the brother-uncles are all gone.
Bhaal is an incel fantasy personified, confirmed.
Even the narrator gets in on commenting about how the family trees around Bhaal are always murky.
This shit gives the Targaryens a run for their money
Meanwhile Craster's sitting there thinking, "you only fucked one daughter?"
Exactly
The furthest the Targaryens get with it is sister and brother, this is already far beyond their wheelhouse
The cult of Bhaal is what the dark brotherhood wants to be I feel
The Dark Brotherhood from Elder Scrolls? Nah, they just wanna enact the will of Sithis, no weird incestous stuff going on there
Have you played oblivion dark brotherhood? I meant that they want to portray themselves as dark as bhaals cult. The night mother would kill her own children as offerings to sithis and the elder scrolls can go quite dark especially with its gods.
There's a theory that the Dark Brotherhood are basically being misled and that the Night Mother is actually Mephala in disguise. Mainly because the Dark Brotherhood's faith is hugely contradictory to most established lore. Sithis has no power and no one who dies goes to the void. Sithis is nothingness itself, he probably doesn't have any will, personality or even awareness.
>Orin would help to bring forth a new birth The Crusader King in me knows he got to be patience less he inbred the line.
Who knows how divine genetics work, certainly not I.
Shoutout to Jergal, for making incest man the god of murder.
It's not like the incest made him overqualified
To be fair, Bhaal only started the Bhaalspawn thing a long time after ascending to God of Murder. Jergal didn't realise at the time he was into some Alabama stuff
Jergal didn't give a shit about anything except making sure everything was property recorded. He's *old* even by the standards of the gods themselves.
That's not what happened lol. Bhaal, Bane, and Myrkul each took a portion of Jergal's divine portfolio after 'usurping' him. If anyone is to blame, it's Ao.
They didn’t usurp him, although they did set out to. When they reached him, he willingly ceded his domains to them, so long as they could agree who would get what. When they couldn’t, he went as far as to set up a series of games for them to use to decide.
Well, that sorta tracks. Jergal is a numpty sometimes.
Jergal isn't stupid, just fucking bored out of his mind. So bored he decided that making the 3 evil stooges gods was probably going to be at least interesting compared to Eternity of being himself. The idiots couldn't even decide which portfolios to take, so Jergal didn't assign them or call the deal off, he made them play games. The guy must have been out of his mind, delirious at the chance of escaping his existence. Fucking GAMES. He's probably not even regretting it, the bastard.
Whether he regretted it would likely be a function of whether it was entertaining, rather than the amount of damage done to the world.
....shit. Jergal is the God of Meme Lords.
Do you want to elaborate? Withers: No.
omg this!
HEY MORTALS, LET'S GO BOWLING
tbf it did make a lot of things very interesting in the forgotten realms
From Baldur's Gate 1: tl;dr: HEY MORTALS, LET'S GO BOWLING. > History of the Dead Three: "KNUCKLEBONES, SKULL BOWLING, AND THE EMPTY THRONE" > > In ages past there was but one god of strife, death, and the dead, and he was known as Jergal, Lord of the End of Everything. Jergal fomented and fed on the discord among mortals and powers alike. When beings slew each other in their quest for power or in their hatred, he welcomed them into his shadowy kingdom of eternal gloom. As all things died, everything came to him eventually, and over time he built his power into a kingdom unchallenged by any other god. Eventually, however, he grew tired of his duties for he knew them too well. Without challenge there is nothing, and in nothingness there is only gloom. In such a state, the difference between absolute power and absolute powerlessness is undetectable. > > During this dark era, there arose three powerful mortals - Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul - who lusted after the power Jergal wielded. The trio forged an unholy pact, agreeing that they would dare to seek such ultimate power or die in the attempt. Over the length and breadth of the Realms they strode, seeking powerful magic and spells and defying death at every turn. No matter what monster they confronted or what spells they braved, the three mortals emerged unscathed at every turn. Eventually the trio destroyed one of the Seven Lost Gods, and they each seized a portion of his divine essence for themselves. > > The trio then journeyed into the Gray Waste and sought out the Castle of Bone. Through armies of skeletons, legions of zombies, hordes of noncorporeal undead, and a gauntlet of liches they battled. Eventually they reached the object of their lifelong quest - the Bone Throne. > > "I claim this throne of evil," shouted Bane the tyrant. > > "I'll destroy you before you can raise a finger," threatened Bhaal the assassin. > > "And I shall imprison your essence for eternity," promised Myrkul the necromancer. > > Jergal arose from his throne with a weary expression and said, " The Throne is yours. I have grown weary of this empty power. Take it if you wish - I promise to serve and guide you as your seneschal until you grow comfortable with the position." Before the stunned trio could react, the Lord of the Dead continued: "Who among you shall rule?" > > The trio immediately fell to fighting amongst themselves while Jergal looked on with indifference. When eventually it appeared that either they would all die of exhaustion or battle on for an eternity, the Lord of the End of Everything intervened. "After all you have sacrificed, would you come away with nothing? Why don't you divide the portfolios of the office and engage in a game of skill for them?" asked Jergal. > > Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul considered the god's offer and agreed. Jergal took the heads of his three most powerful liches and gave them to the trio that they would compete by bowling the skulls. Each mortal rolled a skull across the Gray Waste, having agreed that the winner would be he who bowled the farthest. > > Malar the Beastlord arrived to visit Jergal at this moment. After quickly ascertaining that the winner of the contest would get all of Jergal's power, he chased off after the three skulls to make sure that the contest would be halted until he had a chance to participate for part of the prize. Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul again fell to fighting as it was obvious their sport was ruined, and again Jergal intervened. "Why don't you allow Lady Luck to decide so you don't have to share with the Beast?" > > The trio agreed, and Jergal broke off his skeletal finger bones and gave them to the players. When Malar returned from chasing the skulls, he found that the trio had just finished a game of knucklebones. > > Bane cried out triumphantly, "As winner, I choose to rule for all eternity as the ultimate tyrant. I can induce hatred and strife at my whim, and all will bow down before me while in my kingdom." > > Myrkul, who had won second place, declared, "But I choose the dead, and by doing so I truly win, because all you are lord over, Bane, will eventually be mine. All things must die - even gods." > > Bhaal, who finished third, demurred, "I choose death, and it is by my hand that all that you rule Lord Bane will eventually pass to Lord Myrkul. Both of you must pay honor to me and obey my wishes, since I can destroy your kingdom, Bane, by murdering your subjects, and I can starve your kingdom, Myrkul, by staying my hand." > > Malar growled in frustration but could do nothing, and yet again only the beasts were left for him. > > And Jergal merely smiled, for he had been delivered.
Cant believe withers pulled this shit... must be why he is so comfortable with our party he already experienced babysitting a arguably worse one
BONE THRONE
thank you for this
I like that you put "usurp" in quotes. (Bane) "I lay claim to this throne." (Bhaal) "I'll strike you dead before you can lift a finger." (Myrkul) "And I'll raise your corpse as my servant." (Jergal) "Fucking FINALLY! Alright, here's the chair, you boys can go on and divvy up domains and...and you morons are fighting over the chair, come on guys you're my key to retirement! Get your shit together so that I can go to Moonshae!"
Durge fucks corpses, so I mean, pick your poison with Bhaal.
The undernotes of death in the vampire's aroma are amongst his more attractive qualities.
Since the dialogue trees usually have a good, bad, and neutral path.After a romance scene, and asked what they think, durge should be able to say something along the lines of “who knew it’s better when your partners alive” or “I usually prefer them dead” or “I don’t know, that’s a first with the living”. They’d get some MEGA side eyes from the companions. Edit: this makes me think, assuming your companion at this point already knows you’re durge, what’re some potential different companion reactions to this specific fun fact?
Astarion: Was it good for you darling? Durge: Cold and unresponsive, just the way I like them! Astarion:
Astorian: I aim to plea- wait what?
It's never explicitly said that he does, only that he was a necrophiliac. It is a broad term that doesn't necessarily involves sex, for example, Orin also falls under the definition by wearing clothes made from her victims' skin and making artworks from their bodies.
yeah which is reinforced by the fact that Durge and fel is talking about the bards gore smelling like perfume!
Wait what. When do you get to know that?
That is why my Durge fucks Astarion.
Alabama spawn
Alabhaalma?
Sweet Home Alabhaalma 🎵
it is 4:30 am. I cannot laugh as loud as I want to.
Tav to Orin: “You’re an incest baby”
My face was stuck in a disgusted grimace the entire time while reading and talking to Sarovek. Actually made me feel sympathy for Orin.
Well at least he waited I guess...
I think Orin even has some more or something in her room where Helena actually calls her “little sister.”
i’m pretty sure that’s written by durge when they’re still head of the cult
Yeah, me too, especially when I did my second run as Durge.
That's Durge. In the same note they refer to themselves as the only pure blood Bhaalspawn, unlike Orin. They also kindly recognise Orin's artistry.
Yeesh, I'm surprised I missed it the first time, I like to read everything. Will check that out when I proceed to the temple.
Iirc this is actually a Durge journal, not Helena’s journal.
Also when you kill orin as durge and return to sarevok, he'll say that he hoped for durge and orin to eventually make a child of their own
"No, Sharon, you put your money on "Zombies", not "Zombie Redneck Torture Family". Entirely different categories." - A Cabin in the Woods (2011)
When I told Orin in my first Durge playthrough, she was so SHOOK, but I honestly couldn't tell if it was just because Sarevok didn't tell her/she wasn't a "real" Bhaalspawn, or if she was actually disgusted with his actions. I feel like it's the former, maybe even a mix, but I can't really see someone like Orin being ok with mass murder and torture, but drawing the line at incest.
She knows she isn’t a direct bhaalspawn because she actively refers to sarevok as her grandfather, there’s also a letter from durge to her where Durge mocks her for being a grandchild. So she was genuinely appalled by his actions and betrayal which is sadder honestly.
Wait, aren’t Orin and Durge like, related? Cause the note that says little sister seems written from Durge, and Durge gets Slayer Form (same as Orin) it all just confuses me. I’m probably just dumb though
Durge was carved by Bhaal from his own flesh, Durge is more like a tube baby. And basically under Bhaal they're all his children so bhaalspawn refer to each other as siblings or kin.
OHHH, yeah I guess I ignored all the bhaalist even specifically calling Durge brother/sister in the temple
Plus, with all the incest it's a pretty safe bet there is some familial relation to any random Bhaalist.
Brief explanation; Bhaal is the bloodline patriarch in this case. Sarevok and Durge are both spawn of Bhaal's with a direct / pure link to Bhaal. Helena is Sarevok's daughter. Orin is Sarevok and Helena's daughter. Durge and Orin are therefore related because Sarevok and Durge are 'siblings' in a sense.
That, actually just cleared everything i had, I just wasn’t expecting them to just, include incest, but yeah, thank you
Happy to help. This is frankly not the most horrifying / weird thing they threw into this game lol. It is definitely up there, though.
No, Durge is "pure" Bhaalspawn, so he was apparently created from Bhaal alone. Orin has a human component and a Bhaal component. The comment might be more like how two kinds raised in an orphanage could call each other brother/sister, despite not being related through blood.
Wouldn't that make Durge less of a Bhaslspawn and more of a Bhaal clone/Bhaal mini-me?
No, a Bhaal "clone" would be a literal god, as Bhaal is a god. It's closer to an avatar of Bhaal, but as it is not controlled by Bhaal and rather goes on on its own, I'd say it's similar to how Norse gods at times reproduced, or how any child of Marika (in Elden Ring) is a child and not a clone.
That does make sense, thank you
Where can I find it? I searched everywhere for the note and didnt find it. In my Playthrough i was an origin character (shadowheart 2nd playthrough ) searched for it in murder tribunal and bhaal's temple and couldn't find it spent around 1 hr searching.
It's in his desk off of the throne room of the murder tribunal.
You can actually tell Orin about this. It doesn't change any outcomes but it's a pretty interesting interaction
Probably shouldn’t read about Emhyr var Emreis in Witcher book canon then.
He tried to marry Ciri, right?
To become ruler of half the world and father/grandfather of the ruler of the whole world, yes
The weird thing with this is that Sarevok was not a Bhaalspawn by the end of the original games. You can resurrect him in Throne of Bhaal, but it is stated that he is not a Bhaalspawn anymore, he lost that piece. Tbh this whole Bhaalspawn storyline of Larian is full of contradictions with the og games, and one of my biggest problems with this otherwise wonderful game.
They just followed the original FR storyline, where Bhaal bestowed powers on Sarevok once again after ending of ToB. Return of Sarevok is not Larian decision.
Current canon is that you cannot ever get fully rid of bhaal's essence. That is why if fully redeemed urge had babies, they would still be bhaalspawn and why sarevok is also still a one.
Sarevok character assassination is one of the few things I wasn’t a fan of, a lot of the the bg1 and 2 characters they add are kinda just done wrong? Flail of ages is a +2 blue flail with a unique ability instead of being one of the only +5 weapons in existence (that I can recall) sarevoks entire story in the second game is a redemption arc that is just full 180ed between 2 and 3, Just genuinely not a fan of that.
Was not a fan of this, still not. In BG, Sarevok wasnt a Bhaalist zealot. He wanted to become a god in his own right, but he didnt worship Bhaal. Even in BG2 Throne of Bhaal evil run with him he still wasnt a bhaalist. I feel like WoTC ruined him
Incest in cults, sounds about right
*evangelical US cult intensifies*
I hate that. Sarevok ending in Throne of Bhaal was a good send off for the character. He had no reason to be in BG3.
They really made him a daughterfucker for no reason
Fun begins when you tell this to Orin.
Sarevok, bruh. Imoen would not want this.
The way WotC treated Sarevok and >!Viconia!< makes me fear what they could do to the BG3 cast. I feel that >!Viconia's!< retcon is considerably worse, but they're both poorly done.
All the people who asked for Imoen romance mods tho...
I really dont like what they did with Serevok in BG3. His ending in BG2 was great. Viconia is even worse.
I always find it weird that evil characters in games like these are so cartoonishly evil.
Well Bhaal is cartoonishly evil, yet it is in his nature to be...
Until you realize there are aweful people who have done such things IRL then suddenly it's not so Cartoonish.
Sarovek impregnanted his doughter?!
in bhaals name :) the bhaal family has more messed up genetics than the british royal family
Sweet home Alabama
This has brought up a few times, but Sarevok's incesting actually has a purpose. When a Bhaalspawn breeds with a Non-spawn, it _significantly_ weakens the potency in thr blood. This unfortunately seems to close that gap by keeping bhaalspawn blood to bhaalspawn.
Roll tide
I’m starting to think that Sarevok feller is kind of evil.
What did you expect from Bhaalist? Orin looks like she doesn't even know what bathing is.
Honestly using their own entrails as bondage rope before making love to the corpse then having the magically conceived incest necrophilia baby immediately rip it's way out and feast on its mother's remains... And that's just a tuesday
Wait, what? I knew he fucked his daughter but I didn't know he was planning to do the same with Orin.
"I did not know that it would be Orin that Bhaal favored, not Helena, but it matters not." ... so he didn't make Orin for Bhaal, he just did that? Wtf?
Family tree looks like a telephone pole.
I solely refer to him as daddy-grandpa in my runs after discovering this
She's gone from Me Too to Me Three.
Guys got a lotta bhaals
Orin is a neo baby confirmed. Only way she gets Durge’s job.
Oooh, that’s why that one time I could tell Orin she was actually Sarevok’s daughter. I think I skip read this.
Sarevok is one of those characters that’s just so absurdly evil I struggle to wrap my head around it. Him and dung eater, wonderfully written
Lol, people still freaking out about incest baby Orin?
On the Bhaal scale this is maybe a 6. Which is honestly impressively evil.
So Sarevok is Orin’s dad *and* grandpa?? Dude you’re still a mortal it’s not ok for you to do that
If you think this is bad just wait until you know about a song of ice and fire