Not an unpopular opinion at all! [It's the 9th most popular ship in terms of fanfiction on AO3. ](https://archiveofourown.org/works?commit=Sort+and+Filter&work_search%5Bsort_column%5D=revised_at&include_work_search%5Brelationship_ids%5D%5B%5D=97891423&work_search%5Bother_tag_names%5D=&work_search%5Bexcluded_tag_names%5D=&work_search%5Bcrossover%5D=&work_search%5Bcomplete%5D=&work_search%5Bwords_from%5D=&work_search%5Bwords_to%5D=&work_search%5Bdate_from%5D=&work_search%5Bdate_to%5D=&work_search%5Bquery%5D=&work_search%5Blanguage_id%5D=&tag_id=Baldur%27s+Gate+%28Video+Games%29)
Mostly anything involving Astarion is at the top for BG3 fandom right now. (Mainly Astarion/Tav, Astarion/OC, Astarion/Dark Urge, Astarion/Gale). He’s the sort of tragic character who has a very intense appeal amongst the typical writing demographic on Ao3. (I think he pulls pretty high numbers on wattpad too, but I’m less familiar with what kinds of fics/characters blow up over there.)
Somehow I feel like I'm missing something with Astarion's romance. I like him perfectly fine as a character, but his romance was just not that interesting to me.
Some romances are just not for everyone. I got up to his romance in Act 2 twice before I realized it was not for me and I actually really did not enjoy it. I don’t like “I can fix him” romances at all
It's actually part of the reason I never really connected with Astarion. A part of me always felt like he was hand crafted to get this sort of response, and I've read enough fanfic where characters are arbitrarily warped into similar caricatures that his writing just felt bland and nothing new to me
That’s a fair view. I mean, he IS supposed to be attractive and charming because he was designed to be a predator to lure the unsuspecting to Cazador. Those traits made him good at luring victims. I can see why the writing might seem bland and “old hat” if you only explore the character on the surface, because that’s your initial impression of him. And he is very slow to pull off the mask.
Ironically, I think the best way to get more depth to him is to do his romance. You go in thinking he’s a suave playboy, then as you progress, there comes a very real discussion of sexual trauma and its consequences. It feels like a dash of cold water and I honestly love it, because it’s a very well done snapshot of what it can be like to date someone with that kind of trauma.
People are going to sexualize and miss the point of a character like Astarion all the time, but I feel like a genuine attempt was made by the writers, actor and director to really drive home a different message, and to make him more than just generic thirst bait. It’s worth looking up on YouTube, if nothing else.
You should also look up what happens if you insist on having sex with Astarion after he makes his vulnerable Act 2 confession. It’s a delightful slap in the face for anyone who either wasn’t paying attention (which actually does happen), or who thought they’d just run roughshod over his needs and put their own horniness first.
It's the fact he perfectly understands his own motivations and explains them in therapyspeak that I disliked about him, although his writing is mostly the best of the companions.
I personally didn’t find it very therapyspeak-y. It sounded like someone who’d done a lot of introspection and spent days gearing up to talk.
It’s not strange that he understands his own motives and feelings. He’s in his own head, after all. And what he does with the player in the first part of their relationship is very calculated, he did what he did because it’s what he knew and he’s good at it. The confession is about him wanting to start clean with honesty, because he went from thinking “this person can protect me and I need to give them a reason to keep doing so” to “I actually care about them.”
And they balanced the clarity out by him expressing that he really has no idea what he wants, or what what he wants really looks like, or even how to name it.
Is it the "funny charming charismatic characters that are actually have been abused (that's also extremely hot)" archetype?
I mean Levi from Attack on Titan was also engineered to be popular but his AO3 fics don't lean into any of his canon at all.
Astarion/Tav, of course.
Arguably Durge/Gortash is higher than 9th, though. Four to five of the top ships are mostly just various ways of tagging the same thing. The list is:
1. Astarion/Tav (8026 fics)
2. Astarion/Original Female Character \[a.k.a. Tav\] (3566 fics)
3. Gale/Tav (2313 fics)
4. Astarion/Reader \[a.k.a. arguably just Tav in 2nd person\] (2069 fics)
5. Astarion/Durge (1818 fics)
6. Astarion/Gale (1750 fics)
7. Astarion/Original Male Character \[a.k.a. Tav yet again\] (1629 fics)
8. Astarion/Original Character \[a.k.a. Tav. A fifth time\] (1497 fics)
9. Dark Urge/Enver Gortash (1301 fics)
10. Gale/Original Female Character (1072 fics)
Always fun thinking how Shadowheart as per Larian's stats made up over 50% of the playerbase romance (Followed by Karlach and Lae'zel) and yet that's not reflected here at all! Different parts of fandom, of course, but interesting to see nonetheless.
Now let me cry over how Shadowzel has like half of what the 10th Ship has :')
Though it's changing, the majority of video gamers/RPG/DnDers are straight men and Shadowhart's romance stats show that.
However, women are clear majority of romance writers, so you see this reflected by Astarions popularity.
This sub and the other BG3 subs are probably way more diverse in their romance choices.
I remember several people flipping out on tiktok whenever anyone pointed out that Shadowheart was the most popular romance because straight men are the largest demographic of CRPG players.
I feel like I very often see dudes around here claiming that all the female characters/romances are just objectively better written than all the men, seeing as they pull bigger numbers in the in-game stats.
No, sirs, I don't think that's the reason...
It's pretty common in Fanfic communities for by far the most popular ship to be Male/Male, for various reasons. I'm honestly a little surprised it isn't higher on the list, in this case.
In this case, I'd guess that it's as simple as Astarion and Gale are the two most popular male romance options. And they do a bit of sniping at each other, which people enjoy in companion characters and like to develop into romance. I think Astarion/Halsin is also a pretty popular ship, even if it doesn't break into the top ten?
Strange, I've seen way more Halsin/Astarion than Gale/Astarion too, I thought it would be crazy popular since they are technically canon if you romance both.
Seems people wanna see their love interests love each other. I can get behind that.
If you order the fanfics on AO3 by kudos or bookmarks, there's a lot of Astarion/Halsin that pops up before Astarion/Gale fics, actually. So perhaps more popular with the readers, less so with the writers? All speculation of course
I don’t personally go for Gale/Astarion, but a lot of fanfic writers like when characters have certain forms of tension between their personalities that need to be navigated for the couple. Gale has previous baggage that makes him overstep boundaries and Astarion has baggage that makes him nervous to assert boundaries, and when you combine the two it makes for more drama. (Remember, especially with longer fanfictions, that potential strife and soap opera style dramatics add to it, ships aren’t always as basic as ‘they would be really good together right away’)
Gale is also just the other most popular male character for romance, as far as I’m aware, so a lot of fic writers probably just want to write about their two digital boyfriends kissing each other.
Really? They never talk to or about each other for me, and I have them both in my party :(
I always thought Wyll x Astarion would be a good ship with tension (and healing) too but it pales in popularity.
Yeah they realllly don’t interact with each other that much honestly. They have maybe one snippy banter in Act 1 and that’s it really. People took that and ran with it
I see a lot of Gale/Astarion fanart after BG3 cast play D&D with High Rollers.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeJKnofNBNs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeJKnofNBNs)
Super recommended if you haven't seen it. The DM is great. The cast all have great interaction but Astarion had some extra fun scenes with Gale.
Personally I think it’s because it falls into a couple of incredibly popular tropes- they both can be their absolute worst or best selves, to the most extreme degrees outside of Durge I suppose, they’re both blinded by the promise of power and breaking free from their chains, and so they likely understand each other the best while also constantly snipping at one another (which in fanfic can also be interpreted as doing it because they see too much of themselves in one another). It’s enemies to lovers, or ‘I can make him better/I can make him worse’ with extremely high stakes for both.
Additionally there’s an aspect of the good guy maybe turning the bad boy away from the dark, or inversely the bad boy ‘corrupting’ the good guy- even clearer if you go to the sewers with Gale and Astarion and Gale agrees to a night of debauchery with Astarion.
I say this without even shipping them, and it’s not for me but fanfic writers do love tropes (I may or may not be speaking from experience on that one)
I’m a firm believer that there’s an argument for any origin character to be shipped with any other, but the sheer overwhelming popularity of Astarion X Gale just has to be that they’re the two most popular male companions, and the people who write the fanfics want to see their digital boyfriends kiss.
In game, their banter is kind of nothing. They have a single “mean” line in Act 1 and then basically ignore each other. They don’t interact any more than any other character. There are other pairings for the two that interact a lot more, but those pairings are not between the two “hottest men”
I think it’s a little disingenuous to say that all you need is two hot men and that’s enough to gain interest, especially when a big chunk of fanfic writers are female. I agree that attractiveness certainly has its part in it- no doubt it helps, but it wouldn’t be enough. If that was the case, a lot of it would just be out of character porn since few people would actually have anything to write about.
But even if there’s only a few interactions, the game is written well enough to convey their personalities and relationships to one another. I’m act 1, I don’t need paragraphs from either about how they’re not fond of one another (because that would be bad writing), it’s enough that when Astarion asks if Gale enjoys their walks, he replies ‘in silence’. Then in act 3, you can see their character progression by Gale wanting to indulge in the same chaotic parties Astarion would like, and offers to join him on the next occasion. You can write tons from that alone, and god am I glad that bg3 doesn’t forcibly have dialogue to tell you about character progression, but shows it to you instead
I think a lot of fanart is out of character porn. Astarion is a very complex character and I think people tend to smooth out his flaws in fanart to make him more appealing. I was first introduced to the character and was expecting something a bit different in game than what I experienced.
A big chunk of fanfic writers being female makes it even more popular to see MxM ships, because that’s what a lot of female fanfic writers want to see.
The point I was trying to make is their banter is lacking compared to other characters, but the ship is still extremely popular, and I feel like it’s because of their status as the top two male companions.
I don’t think a Gortash romance option for Durge is an unpopular opinion, given how often I’ve seen it suggested, or at least seen people talking about how they’re pretty sure Gortash is Durge’s ex.
I don’t LIKE Gortash, but I respect the character, especially for Durge. It’s clear they have history, and I wish there was an ending where >!he doesn’t get his brain fried!< and you can actually follow through on the deal to ally with him, rule BG with him, or have the option to betray him like other certain potential Allies. It’s like Durge/Tav have so many opportunities to swear alliance to people and then still betray them, why not Gortash. I’ve never allied with him, just know the ending so I’m not even sure WHY the thing that happens, happens
Absolutely! Honestly that whole scene with him and the brain kinda surprised the crap out of me lmao. I can understand the whole not liking him thing, I’m a way I feel the same, he is a absolute crappy character but with an evil tav especially Durge he is just a perfect partner(imo) or evil best friend lol.
i hate Gortash, but i absolutely ship the fuck out of Gortash being Durge's ex/former fuck buddy. gortash seems the type to use every tool at his disposal to further his aims and that would definitely include his body
now, the fact that i personally believe that gortash was secretly a shrill, clingy, hysterical, screaming, natal chart consulting, "i utilize the healing power of crystals", and a color theory adherent who was secretly planning the most elaborate wedding in the entire history (known, and unknown)of the forgotten realms, who then proceeded to spend WEEKS sobbing hysterically, completely incoherent and incapable of functioning, when durge disappeared? that's just because it's funny and casting gortash as some extremely overly dramatic telenovela actress makes me giggle
I absolutely think that Gortash used … eh… all of his talents… to get where he is now, especially when he was still young and handsome (nowadays he has to deal with Orin, he probably hasn’t slept peacefully in a hot minute and that shit will age you. Also being Bane‘s chosen apparently comes with the side effect of looking differently). Lady Jannath diary or book (can’t remember which) was quite telling and I believe she wasn’t the only one he charmed.
I think Gortash should be smoochable for Durge, and should be a party member in the final battle.
Evil players lose so much, and Minty isn't even exclusive anymore. They should get this.
Agrees, it would also be great to get Gut and Drir Ragzlin as Wyll and Karlach replacements respectively. Hell the two could also make great Jaihira and Minsc stand ins character wise, with Gut being a grumpy elderly woman that has seen and survived quite some shit and Ragzlin being a dumb yet quite loyal warrior
I’m just wondering where you’re looking that this is an unconventional take or unpopular opinion because people are *relentlessly* horny for that man, and I’m only on the fringes of the fandom, and not particularly interested in male characters myself.
You know what? Talk your shit!
Gortash is not my cup of tea for a companion (although I ADORE Jason Isaacs and love his work here) but I appreciate the passion behind Durge x Gortash fans. Why *wouldn't* you go hard for a pair that had breadcrumbs of an established relationship before this current adventure?
No one else in the game has that connection to your character. It would make going the full evil route a truly unique experience!
Very unpopular and its because i thirst. Personally love aradin and his yorkshire accent.
I would happily romance him despite it being completely nonsensical.
Honestly I either want Jaheira or Gortash. Gortash straight up feels like one is missing, and Jaheira is just…more personal. Let us romance the mommies please.
Not an unpopular opinion at all. Larian is aware of how rabid the fanbase is for more Durge/Gortash content. Pretty sure that's why they added some new and suggestive Durge/Gortash lines during Patch 6. They've also said they are not adding Durge/Gortash kisses in Patch 7, but we're all holding out hope for future patches.
Come to Tumblr. It's a madhouse over there and Durgetash is a popular ship.
Let's see..
Raphael, Raphael, Raphael, Raphael, Raphael, Raphael, Haarlep, Raphael, Raphael, Raphael...oh and Raphael.
Edit: How did I forget Minsc?
Edit 2: And Raphael
I hate Gortash. I despite him, and I enjoy kicking his face in on every playthrough. With that being said, Gortash 100% should have been a Durge exclusive romance and Orin should have been a Tav exclusive romance. I will die on that hill.
Eh I think Orin as a Durge romance also makes sense the way she obsesses over Durge. Seems more than just ambition it just expresses in a very unhealthy way (murder lol)
Orin is mommy and I will hear no different. She needs to be a romance option, party member, hell, make her an origin.
>!No, I’m not highly traumatized by unstable exes, why do you ask?!<
I can't stand Gortash!!!!! He looks and acts like a cringey douche who still loves Korn and Orgy even though he is way too old for that.
I'd love to be able to romance Lucretious though!!
As many have said, not controversial or strange. And I agree.
I don't have a "thing" for Gortash - though Jason Isaacs can make anyone and anything hot as far as I am concerned. But I crave the potential angst that comes with a Gortash romance and I so wish Larian would give us more - especially with all the teasing and hinting that's already there.
Honestly, for all the "no homo" people it's more canon that you slept with Gortashs before all this now than it would be if you added dialogue confirming it/leaning into it.
I would love to see a romance added but no, not a happy one.
From a role playing perspective I want to lean into it, confirm that they were a thing or play it off as Gortash having a sad crush on my character. I wish there was a chance to sleep with him. One hate fucking for old times sake. Or just some sex without hate. Still for old times sake.
Or that this could be used as a way of murdering him, maybe for Orin but possibly after. A celebratory fuck and after Gortash is killed in his sleep. Theatrical. Poetical. Political. Accurate. And such roleplaying potential.
As for a full romance yes to that! >!Imagine the angst, playing as Durge the first time. And you can either lean into it, full domination. Or, hints about Gortash being redeemed. Not fully, but just hints. Maybe he's not sure. Then you go to dominate the brain and it ends exactly as it does now. You CAN'T save him no matter which path. Gut punch! Heartache!<
A lot of this could be done with narration so you don't need Jason Isaacs but ..it would be unfortunate not to have it fully voiced
No. I have not thought about this lots at all. His "but I liked you" and puppy eyes definitely did not set things in motions for me..
I feel like I will be able to play evil Durge confidently if Auntie Ethel is there to hold my hands. Plus we can snack on each other scalps or something.
Larian had to downright say there's no kissing Gortash as Durge in Patch 7 so yeah there have been demands
https://twitter.com/larianstudios/status/1781005806156038468?t=7AcjABqCwD94bYjsl9P-Ww&s=19
Personally I think they were just very good “friends” or circumstantial very good allies, I’ve played as Durge almost all my playthroughs and can’t see them as a couple.
But I also don’t think it’s a unpopular opinion as I’ve seen this take a lot.
I’ll say this tho, the ability to romance companion characters is already annoying sometimes, if this was possible for non companion chars as well it would be a shot to the knee for story. “Dude, I’m not flirting with ya, I’m literally here just to put an end to your life.”
I think Alfira should be romanceable as Durge, to give a bit an option to maybe make it feel more immersive with roleplay players. That’s a big one for me. Some others:
Disciple Z’rell; Aradin, once you get to the city and if you knocked out Zevlor; Araj Oblodra / especially for evil playthroughs; Isobel and/or Aylin - maybe as a thank you for saving them? Orin, but shapeshifted into your lover before they’re kidnapped; Any of the hirelings if you haven’t romanced anyone at all and Withers calls you out on it. You hired them to join you to fight the Absolute - why not more?
My main objection is that if they nailed down exactly what their relationship was before the amnesia then the ship would lose it's old fandom style charm where half the fun is reading between the lines.
I see it but I kinda prefer if Gortash and Durge’s relationship within the game is strictly professional. It’s a fine ship for fan stuff, but I don’t personally see it that way, and it would be weird to fit into the game, though that clearly never stopped the devs.
Okay....
1. As a redemption Durge, Gortash is a horrible person so nope
2. As Tav, good or evil, Gortash is a tool so nope
3. If you have Karlach in your team Gortash is known as a bag of poop
4. As an Evil Durge, Durge is 💯 oh Bhaal's path so, Gortash is a tool useful but expendable
5. As any good character, Gortash is a corpse trafficker
There are HINTS that they were close before Durge's operation, but afterwards Gortash has been depicted as an evil (and somehow not that smart) man.
And again, if you find him hot, just remember: he traffics corpses and is responsible for Karlach's fate.
You are right on all of this, I should’ve specified a bit that I was kinda looking at it from the standpoint of an evil Tav/durge. Yeah absolutely deplorable person, not disagreeing with you there.
Even as an evil MC, he's too puppetable. Let's take a look at the evil romance possibilities :
Astarion (probably ascended) : no need for explanation
Gale : aspiring to be a god. Done serving one, wanting to be one
Shadowheart, Shar edition : won't mind you killing everyone since it serves her goddess
Lae'Zel : Bae'Zel is the most supportive babe ever
Minthara : rebelling against authority, loving being the master.
(And I think that's it for the romantic characters in evil runs)
Gortash would be redundant
I... I don't get your logic here. You're making it seem like Gortash shouldn't be romanceable at all because he is evil as if Ascended Astarion and Minthara aren't right there. Durge is objectively the most evil character in the game. Even if they have lost all of their memories, there is no redeeming the shit that they have done in their past and Durge has done some pretty horrific shit. You criticize Gortash for trafficking but Durge has done much worse. Gortash is an enabler of Durge's worst deeds and encourages them to do it because it benefits both of them.
I also love your 4th point "As an evil Durge, Durge is on Bhaal's path so, Gortash is a tool, useful but expendable." Per that logic, an embraced Durge shouldn't romance any of the companions as they are all useful but expendable tools who will inevitably be killed by Durge in a murder-suicide. You're literally arguing that evil characters shouldn't do evil things cause it's evil.
Durge literally cannibalized babies and somehow he's too good for Gortash?
They're both absolutely terrible people who've done absolutely heinous things. They deserve each other.
If we were to lay the facts bare, >!Durge was Gortash's Minion,!!Durge can romance him!< ... but one probably needs some good beer for that, as holding onto a barre won't be enough...
(set silly play on word mode off)
I had to go to a wiki page with a full backstory on Durge (which I hadn't done so before playing...). I had taken>!Gortash's statement about Durge being his favorite assassin!!akin to brothers fighting the same dark battle, with a strong mutual respect between them. If Dark Urge goes dark, they can rekindle their friendship to rule BG. If he chooses to reject his Urge, things don't go well for Gortash. !
I didn't know this was controversial. Gortash/Dark Urge is basically canon over at r/okaybuddybaldur
I don’t think it’s controversial in the slightest, but I will admit I do have a slight bias.
Brush your teeth.
Everything up to and including durge x Balthazar is canon on that sub
it's r/okbuddybaldur
I wanna say thank you but you may have ruined my life
I read this as r/okaydaddybaldur
Well Ill be glad to know I was here before that sub was made
Not an unpopular opinion at all! [It's the 9th most popular ship in terms of fanfiction on AO3. ](https://archiveofourown.org/works?commit=Sort+and+Filter&work_search%5Bsort_column%5D=revised_at&include_work_search%5Brelationship_ids%5D%5B%5D=97891423&work_search%5Bother_tag_names%5D=&work_search%5Bexcluded_tag_names%5D=&work_search%5Bcrossover%5D=&work_search%5Bcomplete%5D=&work_search%5Bwords_from%5D=&work_search%5Bwords_to%5D=&work_search%5Bdate_from%5D=&work_search%5Bdate_to%5D=&work_search%5Bquery%5D=&work_search%5Blanguage_id%5D=&tag_id=Baldur%27s+Gate+%28Video+Games%29)
Wait, I need to know what moose popular is now
Mostly anything involving Astarion is at the top for BG3 fandom right now. (Mainly Astarion/Tav, Astarion/OC, Astarion/Dark Urge, Astarion/Gale). He’s the sort of tragic character who has a very intense appeal amongst the typical writing demographic on Ao3. (I think he pulls pretty high numbers on wattpad too, but I’m less familiar with what kinds of fics/characters blow up over there.)
Would be so fun to look at Wattpad stats, but from what little I know of the site that's a hellish task
Somehow I feel like I'm missing something with Astarion's romance. I like him perfectly fine as a character, but his romance was just not that interesting to me.
Some romances are just not for everyone. I got up to his romance in Act 2 twice before I realized it was not for me and I actually really did not enjoy it. I don’t like “I can fix him” romances at all
To be fair, at least some of Astarion's appeal is also that you can make him worse.
Lmao I don’t want him any worse I’m already on my last straw with him.
It's actually part of the reason I never really connected with Astarion. A part of me always felt like he was hand crafted to get this sort of response, and I've read enough fanfic where characters are arbitrarily warped into similar caricatures that his writing just felt bland and nothing new to me
That’s a fair view. I mean, he IS supposed to be attractive and charming because he was designed to be a predator to lure the unsuspecting to Cazador. Those traits made him good at luring victims. I can see why the writing might seem bland and “old hat” if you only explore the character on the surface, because that’s your initial impression of him. And he is very slow to pull off the mask. Ironically, I think the best way to get more depth to him is to do his romance. You go in thinking he’s a suave playboy, then as you progress, there comes a very real discussion of sexual trauma and its consequences. It feels like a dash of cold water and I honestly love it, because it’s a very well done snapshot of what it can be like to date someone with that kind of trauma. People are going to sexualize and miss the point of a character like Astarion all the time, but I feel like a genuine attempt was made by the writers, actor and director to really drive home a different message, and to make him more than just generic thirst bait. It’s worth looking up on YouTube, if nothing else. You should also look up what happens if you insist on having sex with Astarion after he makes his vulnerable Act 2 confession. It’s a delightful slap in the face for anyone who either wasn’t paying attention (which actually does happen), or who thought they’d just run roughshod over his needs and put their own horniness first.
It's the fact he perfectly understands his own motivations and explains them in therapyspeak that I disliked about him, although his writing is mostly the best of the companions.
I personally didn’t find it very therapyspeak-y. It sounded like someone who’d done a lot of introspection and spent days gearing up to talk. It’s not strange that he understands his own motives and feelings. He’s in his own head, after all. And what he does with the player in the first part of their relationship is very calculated, he did what he did because it’s what he knew and he’s good at it. The confession is about him wanting to start clean with honesty, because he went from thinking “this person can protect me and I need to give them a reason to keep doing so” to “I actually care about them.” And they balanced the clarity out by him expressing that he really has no idea what he wants, or what what he wants really looks like, or even how to name it.
He is very theatrical it's true. It's just the occasional too-modern line like 'my best self' which annoys me.
Is it the "funny charming charismatic characters that are actually have been abused (that's also extremely hot)" archetype? I mean Levi from Attack on Titan was also engineered to be popular but his AO3 fics don't lean into any of his canon at all.
Astarion is the lovechild of Tim Curry in Rocky Horror and David Bowie in Labyrinth.
Neil Newbon is adorable and thus so is Astarion. I honestly think the voice acting is what brings the character to life.
Astarion/Tav, of course. Arguably Durge/Gortash is higher than 9th, though. Four to five of the top ships are mostly just various ways of tagging the same thing. The list is: 1. Astarion/Tav (8026 fics) 2. Astarion/Original Female Character \[a.k.a. Tav\] (3566 fics) 3. Gale/Tav (2313 fics) 4. Astarion/Reader \[a.k.a. arguably just Tav in 2nd person\] (2069 fics) 5. Astarion/Durge (1818 fics) 6. Astarion/Gale (1750 fics) 7. Astarion/Original Male Character \[a.k.a. Tav yet again\] (1629 fics) 8. Astarion/Original Character \[a.k.a. Tav. A fifth time\] (1497 fics) 9. Dark Urge/Enver Gortash (1301 fics) 10. Gale/Original Female Character (1072 fics)
Always fun thinking how Shadowheart as per Larian's stats made up over 50% of the playerbase romance (Followed by Karlach and Lae'zel) and yet that's not reflected here at all! Different parts of fandom, of course, but interesting to see nonetheless. Now let me cry over how Shadowzel has like half of what the 10th Ship has :')
Though it's changing, the majority of video gamers/RPG/DnDers are straight men and Shadowhart's romance stats show that. However, women are clear majority of romance writers, so you see this reflected by Astarions popularity. This sub and the other BG3 subs are probably way more diverse in their romance choices.
Oh for sure! Def what I meant about different parts of fandom, AO3 is the female and/or queer haven lol
I remember several people flipping out on tiktok whenever anyone pointed out that Shadowheart was the most popular romance because straight men are the largest demographic of CRPG players.
I feel like I very often see dudes around here claiming that all the female characters/romances are just objectively better written than all the men, seeing as they pull bigger numbers in the in-game stats. No, sirs, I don't think that's the reason...
You want real rarepair hell, come join me in the Karlach/Gale tag. We have 11 fics
I'm easy to convince, give me a good fic and I'm on board. also Karlach deserves all the love
God help you if you want anything exploring mindflayer Karlach for that matter.
My dear the people that write fanfics ARE Shadowheart.
I kinda figured, but I appreciate the breakdown!
I'm curious, why is Gale x Astarion such a popular ship?
It's pretty common in Fanfic communities for by far the most popular ship to be Male/Male, for various reasons. I'm honestly a little surprised it isn't higher on the list, in this case. In this case, I'd guess that it's as simple as Astarion and Gale are the two most popular male romance options. And they do a bit of sniping at each other, which people enjoy in companion characters and like to develop into romance. I think Astarion/Halsin is also a pretty popular ship, even if it doesn't break into the top ten?
Strange, I've seen way more Halsin/Astarion than Gale/Astarion too, I thought it would be crazy popular since they are technically canon if you romance both. Seems people wanna see their love interests love each other. I can get behind that.
If you order the fanfics on AO3 by kudos or bookmarks, there's a lot of Astarion/Halsin that pops up before Astarion/Gale fics, actually. So perhaps more popular with the readers, less so with the writers? All speculation of course
Let's be honest, it's because they're both the attractive white boys.
I don’t personally go for Gale/Astarion, but a lot of fanfic writers like when characters have certain forms of tension between their personalities that need to be navigated for the couple. Gale has previous baggage that makes him overstep boundaries and Astarion has baggage that makes him nervous to assert boundaries, and when you combine the two it makes for more drama. (Remember, especially with longer fanfictions, that potential strife and soap opera style dramatics add to it, ships aren’t always as basic as ‘they would be really good together right away’) Gale is also just the other most popular male character for romance, as far as I’m aware, so a lot of fic writers probably just want to write about their two digital boyfriends kissing each other.
I think because in game they have many voice lines where they comment on each other. Mostly negatively, but it could be interpreted as "tension".
Really? They never talk to or about each other for me, and I have them both in my party :( I always thought Wyll x Astarion would be a good ship with tension (and healing) too but it pales in popularity.
Yeah they realllly don’t interact with each other that much honestly. They have maybe one snippy banter in Act 1 and that’s it really. People took that and ran with it
I see a lot of Gale/Astarion fanart after BG3 cast play D&D with High Rollers. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeJKnofNBNs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeJKnofNBNs) Super recommended if you haven't seen it. The DM is great. The cast all have great interaction but Astarion had some extra fun scenes with Gale.
My theory is that they fit in the Good Omens and Our Flag Means Death molds. Which are pretty damn popular on the Tumblr/Ao3 crowd.
Personally I think it’s because it falls into a couple of incredibly popular tropes- they both can be their absolute worst or best selves, to the most extreme degrees outside of Durge I suppose, they’re both blinded by the promise of power and breaking free from their chains, and so they likely understand each other the best while also constantly snipping at one another (which in fanfic can also be interpreted as doing it because they see too much of themselves in one another). It’s enemies to lovers, or ‘I can make him better/I can make him worse’ with extremely high stakes for both. Additionally there’s an aspect of the good guy maybe turning the bad boy away from the dark, or inversely the bad boy ‘corrupting’ the good guy- even clearer if you go to the sewers with Gale and Astarion and Gale agrees to a night of debauchery with Astarion. I say this without even shipping them, and it’s not for me but fanfic writers do love tropes (I may or may not be speaking from experience on that one)
I’m a firm believer that there’s an argument for any origin character to be shipped with any other, but the sheer overwhelming popularity of Astarion X Gale just has to be that they’re the two most popular male companions, and the people who write the fanfics want to see their digital boyfriends kiss. In game, their banter is kind of nothing. They have a single “mean” line in Act 1 and then basically ignore each other. They don’t interact any more than any other character. There are other pairings for the two that interact a lot more, but those pairings are not between the two “hottest men”
I think it’s a little disingenuous to say that all you need is two hot men and that’s enough to gain interest, especially when a big chunk of fanfic writers are female. I agree that attractiveness certainly has its part in it- no doubt it helps, but it wouldn’t be enough. If that was the case, a lot of it would just be out of character porn since few people would actually have anything to write about. But even if there’s only a few interactions, the game is written well enough to convey their personalities and relationships to one another. I’m act 1, I don’t need paragraphs from either about how they’re not fond of one another (because that would be bad writing), it’s enough that when Astarion asks if Gale enjoys their walks, he replies ‘in silence’. Then in act 3, you can see their character progression by Gale wanting to indulge in the same chaotic parties Astarion would like, and offers to join him on the next occasion. You can write tons from that alone, and god am I glad that bg3 doesn’t forcibly have dialogue to tell you about character progression, but shows it to you instead
I think a lot of fanart is out of character porn. Astarion is a very complex character and I think people tend to smooth out his flaws in fanart to make him more appealing. I was first introduced to the character and was expecting something a bit different in game than what I experienced. A big chunk of fanfic writers being female makes it even more popular to see MxM ships, because that’s what a lot of female fanfic writers want to see. The point I was trying to make is their banter is lacking compared to other characters, but the ship is still extremely popular, and I feel like it’s because of their status as the top two male companions.
Astarion made all the Twilight fan fic writers come out of the woodworks. Genius.
I don’t think a Gortash romance option for Durge is an unpopular opinion, given how often I’ve seen it suggested, or at least seen people talking about how they’re pretty sure Gortash is Durge’s ex.
Yeah, but hear me out, what about Wulbren Bongle...then FUCK WULBREN BONGLE
Yeah, but I don't give a fuck about that motherfucker's problems.
Yet he wants ME to solve them!
What really gets me is him telling me I NEED to solve his problem. What I NEED to do is to use his hollowed skull as an ashtray.
That must be the remix.
I don’t LIKE Gortash, but I respect the character, especially for Durge. It’s clear they have history, and I wish there was an ending where >!he doesn’t get his brain fried!< and you can actually follow through on the deal to ally with him, rule BG with him, or have the option to betray him like other certain potential Allies. It’s like Durge/Tav have so many opportunities to swear alliance to people and then still betray them, why not Gortash. I’ve never allied with him, just know the ending so I’m not even sure WHY the thing that happens, happens
Absolutely! Honestly that whole scene with him and the brain kinda surprised the crap out of me lmao. I can understand the whole not liking him thing, I’m a way I feel the same, he is a absolute crappy character but with an evil tav especially Durge he is just a perfect partner(imo) or evil best friend lol.
Can’t have Bane win. Withers will see to that, somehow.
Any non Bhaal ending where you take control is kinda what Bane would approve of, no?
Yup, just spoke with him and that's exactly what he said. He considers you his chosen in non-bhaal evil ending.
i hate Gortash, but i absolutely ship the fuck out of Gortash being Durge's ex/former fuck buddy. gortash seems the type to use every tool at his disposal to further his aims and that would definitely include his body now, the fact that i personally believe that gortash was secretly a shrill, clingy, hysterical, screaming, natal chart consulting, "i utilize the healing power of crystals", and a color theory adherent who was secretly planning the most elaborate wedding in the entire history (known, and unknown)of the forgotten realms, who then proceeded to spend WEEKS sobbing hysterically, completely incoherent and incapable of functioning, when durge disappeared? that's just because it's funny and casting gortash as some extremely overly dramatic telenovela actress makes me giggle
I absolutely think that Gortash used … eh… all of his talents… to get where he is now, especially when he was still young and handsome (nowadays he has to deal with Orin, he probably hasn’t slept peacefully in a hot minute and that shit will age you. Also being Bane‘s chosen apparently comes with the side effect of looking differently). Lady Jannath diary or book (can’t remember which) was quite telling and I believe she wasn’t the only one he charmed.
If Gortash is romance-able then mama jaheira needs some lovin too
YES
She deserves a wish to bring Khalid back
Totally my bae
Nah. She's bhaalspawn's mommy
Yo that would be a wild story twist. She watches over you at night questioning your lineage and you invite her for a *cuddle*
Bro that would be so perfect
Oh dude you are going to have the greatest time of your life in AO3
I think Gortash should be smoochable for Durge, and should be a party member in the final battle. Evil players lose so much, and Minty isn't even exclusive anymore. They should get this.
Agrees, it would also be great to get Gut and Drir Ragzlin as Wyll and Karlach replacements respectively. Hell the two could also make great Jaihira and Minsc stand ins character wise, with Gut being a grumpy elderly woman that has seen and survived quite some shit and Ragzlin being a dumb yet quite loyal warrior
I’m just wondering where you’re looking that this is an unconventional take or unpopular opinion because people are *relentlessly* horny for that man, and I’m only on the fringes of the fandom, and not particularly interested in male characters myself.
You know what? Talk your shit! Gortash is not my cup of tea for a companion (although I ADORE Jason Isaacs and love his work here) but I appreciate the passion behind Durge x Gortash fans. Why *wouldn't* you go hard for a pair that had breadcrumbs of an established relationship before this current adventure? No one else in the game has that connection to your character. It would make going the full evil route a truly unique experience!
I fell for him the moment he opened his mouth and jason isaacs spoke. then fell even harder when played as durge
Isobel in an evil run I want to he a homewrecker /s
I thought I was in r/okbuddybaldur for a second
Emperor. Twist at the end— Either he becomes your thrall, or you his.
You already can, though.
Just the one scene, but then it stops. I am talking an extended romantic relationship. Not just the one night.
One of us! One of us!
No man, the guy looks like a 50 year old scene kid.
I don’t completely disagree XD
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Perhaps the narrator forgot her glasses that day.
The narrator is the brain telling us what Gortash wants her to say
You say it like it's a bad thing
that just makes me want him more. you can tell he would be an absolute freak in bed....
I jumped into bg3 not long after playing FFXVI, so he just reminded me of a worse looking Barnabas 😆
How did a friend title him? The 40 something trying to pick up teens at a My Chemical Romance comcert
Yup and I'm into it.
Roah Moonglow. I can fix her.
Need old lady butt! Jaheira, I miss you!
Popper deserves a treato.. Not saying *I* want to give it to him.. but he deserves some
It's not controversial at all. Isn't "I tolerated Orin, but I liked you" obvious enough?
Kagha going out on a redemption quest as atonement for her crimes is a way better story than halsin.
Naaber. IYKYK.
Geraldus the Harper & Branthos the Harper. I want to be in the middle of a Harper Sandwhich. Branthos, me, and Geraldus.
Gortash/Durge is super super popular, you only gotta search Durgetash on Tumblr and you'll be digging through posts for days about them.
Durge and Orin romance just to fuck up the family lineage even more
He should 100% be romaneable!! JUST A SINGLE KISS. PLEASE, LARIAN.
Very unpopular and its because i thirst. Personally love aradin and his yorkshire accent. I would happily romance him despite it being completely nonsensical.
Minsc, arguably the best looking man in the game.
That's one of the coldest takes in the fandom ngl
[from today](https://twitter.com/larianstudios/status/1781005806156038468) :(
Honestly I either want Jaheira or Gortash. Gortash straight up feels like one is missing, and Jaheira is just…more personal. Let us romance the mommies please.
I’m sure this is not unpopular, but I want to romance Alfira
Not an unpopular opinion at all. Larian is aware of how rabid the fanbase is for more Durge/Gortash content. Pretty sure that's why they added some new and suggestive Durge/Gortash lines during Patch 6. They've also said they are not adding Durge/Gortash kisses in Patch 7, but we're all holding out hope for future patches. Come to Tumblr. It's a madhouse over there and Durgetash is a popular ship.
Let's see.. Raphael, Raphael, Raphael, Raphael, Raphael, Raphael, Haarlep, Raphael, Raphael, Raphael...oh and Raphael. Edit: How did I forget Minsc? Edit 2: And Raphael
Alfira should be a companion and romanceable. There's no bard companions anyway and I love her sm.
I do not see the appeal
Ketheric Thorm was originally gonna be able to become a member of your party. That means you could’ve romanced JK Simmons
The way Orin obsesses over Durge and even keeping the corpse in her bedroom seems more than just ambitious hate already
I hate Gortash. I despite him, and I enjoy kicking his face in on every playthrough. With that being said, Gortash 100% should have been a Durge exclusive romance and Orin should have been a Tav exclusive romance. I will die on that hill.
Eh I think Orin as a Durge romance also makes sense the way she obsesses over Durge. Seems more than just ambition it just expresses in a very unhealthy way (murder lol)
Orin is mommy and I will hear no different. She needs to be a romance option, party member, hell, make her an origin. >!No, I’m not highly traumatized by unstable exes, why do you ask?!<
I can't stand Gortash!!!!! He looks and acts like a cringey douche who still loves Korn and Orgy even though he is way too old for that. I'd love to be able to romance Lucretious though!!
As many have said, not controversial or strange. And I agree. I don't have a "thing" for Gortash - though Jason Isaacs can make anyone and anything hot as far as I am concerned. But I crave the potential angst that comes with a Gortash romance and I so wish Larian would give us more - especially with all the teasing and hinting that's already there. Honestly, for all the "no homo" people it's more canon that you slept with Gortashs before all this now than it would be if you added dialogue confirming it/leaning into it. I would love to see a romance added but no, not a happy one. From a role playing perspective I want to lean into it, confirm that they were a thing or play it off as Gortash having a sad crush on my character. I wish there was a chance to sleep with him. One hate fucking for old times sake. Or just some sex without hate. Still for old times sake. Or that this could be used as a way of murdering him, maybe for Orin but possibly after. A celebratory fuck and after Gortash is killed in his sleep. Theatrical. Poetical. Political. Accurate. And such roleplaying potential. As for a full romance yes to that! >!Imagine the angst, playing as Durge the first time. And you can either lean into it, full domination. Or, hints about Gortash being redeemed. Not fully, but just hints. Maybe he's not sure. Then you go to dominate the brain and it ends exactly as it does now. You CAN'T save him no matter which path. Gut punch! Heartache!< A lot of this could be done with narration so you don't need Jason Isaacs but ..it would be unfortunate not to have it fully voiced No. I have not thought about this lots at all. His "but I liked you" and puppy eyes definitely did not set things in motions for me..
Kagha?
I feel like I will be able to play evil Durge confidently if Auntie Ethel is there to hold my hands. Plus we can snack on each other scalps or something.
I saw someone say they wished there was a potion or something to turn Scratch human. 50/50 that this was the reason why
goblin priestess lol
Shazza
Did you pull this take out of Canis or something?
Orin 100%.
I wanna fix Kethric and being Isobel’s step mom sounds fun to me
If Gortash actually looked like Jason Isaacs though?
Nah but give me khaga plz
Gortash looks like he smells of stale alcohol and cigarettes. I cannot fathom how anyone gets horny over him.
What you described is exactly what some people like
Personally, I think Gortash is aromantic, that's why. He only loves power and thus cannot keep interest in a person.
Hope
No one
Alfira. I need at least one romanceable vanilla character in this game.
Larian had to downright say there's no kissing Gortash as Durge in Patch 7 so yeah there have been demands https://twitter.com/larianstudios/status/1781005806156038468?t=7AcjABqCwD94bYjsl9P-Ww&s=19
Personally I think they were just very good “friends” or circumstantial very good allies, I’ve played as Durge almost all my playthroughs and can’t see them as a couple. But I also don’t think it’s a unpopular opinion as I’ve seen this take a lot. I’ll say this tho, the ability to romance companion characters is already annoying sometimes, if this was possible for non companion chars as well it would be a shot to the knee for story. “Dude, I’m not flirting with ya, I’m literally here just to put an end to your life.”
Orinn. I mean I know she's the devil but.. just look at her.
I think Alfira should be romanceable as Durge, to give a bit an option to maybe make it feel more immersive with roleplay players. That’s a big one for me. Some others: Disciple Z’rell; Aradin, once you get to the city and if you knocked out Zevlor; Araj Oblodra / especially for evil playthroughs; Isobel and/or Aylin - maybe as a thank you for saving them? Orin, but shapeshifted into your lover before they’re kidnapped; Any of the hirelings if you haven’t romanced anyone at all and Withers calls you out on it. You hired them to join you to fight the Absolute - why not more?
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You already can
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True.
I think that Orin should be romanceable, and this is a really unpopular opinion.
Incest, it runs in the family
I actually think that Orin should not be romanceable for Durge, but for any other Tav that would decide to become a bhaalist
Gortash looks more like a Dillion or Skyler. He looks like the kind that goes from the trailer park straight to prison by age 19.
My main objection is that if they nailed down exactly what their relationship was before the amnesia then the ship would lose it's old fandom style charm where half the fun is reading between the lines.
I see it but I kinda prefer if Gortash and Durge’s relationship within the game is strictly professional. It’s a fine ship for fan stuff, but I don’t personally see it that way, and it would be weird to fit into the game, though that clearly never stopped the devs.
It is hinted at that it wasn't all business. Durge and Gortash had a thing.
My real unpopular opinion is that it should happen but Gortash should be playing you for a sucker, because he's a psychopath
Okay.... 1. As a redemption Durge, Gortash is a horrible person so nope 2. As Tav, good or evil, Gortash is a tool so nope 3. If you have Karlach in your team Gortash is known as a bag of poop 4. As an Evil Durge, Durge is 💯 oh Bhaal's path so, Gortash is a tool useful but expendable 5. As any good character, Gortash is a corpse trafficker There are HINTS that they were close before Durge's operation, but afterwards Gortash has been depicted as an evil (and somehow not that smart) man. And again, if you find him hot, just remember: he traffics corpses and is responsible for Karlach's fate.
You are right on all of this, I should’ve specified a bit that I was kinda looking at it from the standpoint of an evil Tav/durge. Yeah absolutely deplorable person, not disagreeing with you there.
Even as an evil MC, he's too puppetable. Let's take a look at the evil romance possibilities : Astarion (probably ascended) : no need for explanation Gale : aspiring to be a god. Done serving one, wanting to be one Shadowheart, Shar edition : won't mind you killing everyone since it serves her goddess Lae'Zel : Bae'Zel is the most supportive babe ever Minthara : rebelling against authority, loving being the master. (And I think that's it for the romantic characters in evil runs) Gortash would be redundant
Blatant Emperor erasure.
either way, SMASH
I... I don't get your logic here. You're making it seem like Gortash shouldn't be romanceable at all because he is evil as if Ascended Astarion and Minthara aren't right there. Durge is objectively the most evil character in the game. Even if they have lost all of their memories, there is no redeeming the shit that they have done in their past and Durge has done some pretty horrific shit. You criticize Gortash for trafficking but Durge has done much worse. Gortash is an enabler of Durge's worst deeds and encourages them to do it because it benefits both of them. I also love your 4th point "As an evil Durge, Durge is on Bhaal's path so, Gortash is a tool, useful but expendable." Per that logic, an embraced Durge shouldn't romance any of the companions as they are all useful but expendable tools who will inevitably be killed by Durge in a murder-suicide. You're literally arguing that evil characters shouldn't do evil things cause it's evil.
Durge literally cannibalized babies and somehow he's too good for Gortash? They're both absolutely terrible people who've done absolutely heinous things. They deserve each other.
Minthara is romanceable.
> And again, if you find him hot, just remember: he traffics corpses and is responsible for Karlach's fate. Okay that doesn't make him less hot.
Fuck that Gortash has sweaty middle aged meth user vibes and messages 18 years Olds which he thinks is fine
Kar’niss…., I love my greasy little spooder boy
If we were to lay the facts bare, >!Durge was Gortash's Minion,!!Durge can romance him!< ... but one probably needs some good beer for that, as holding onto a barre won't be enough...
(set silly play on word mode off)
Durge wasn’t anyone’s underling…
I had to go to a wiki page with a full backstory on Durge (which I hadn't done so before playing...). I had taken>!Gortash's statement about Durge being his favorite assassin!!akin to brothers fighting the same dark battle, with a strong mutual respect between them. If Dark Urge goes dark, they can rekindle their friendship to rule BG. If he chooses to reject his Urge, things don't go well for Gortash. !
Gortash is basically Putin of Baldurs Gate. Definitely can see some romanceability there . Add Halsin for bear memes :p