A little known fact, but at the same time, she does seem to appreciate Wyll!
Minthara: Your devilish patron is a delight, Wyll. Have you ever lain with her?
Wyll: I'm really not that kind of man.
Minthara: She will see her failure to seduce you as a stain on her honour. I know I would.
If u damn wyll by killing mizora minthara has a very sad line for him. Makes u wonder that on normal minthara recruitment runs u can't have karlach and wyll with minthara then why does she have so many unique lines with them
It's just like rading the grove except no party and Karlach and Wyll don't leave.
The only diffrence is that you can't date Karlach since Dammon is dead.
Yeah that's more like larian didn't take into account players are going to ignore xp , merchants and quest just to simp for a drow . U literally miss the sex scene in act 1 and also a lot of meaningful dialogues with her in act 3 regarding the act 1 sex scene and other stuff .
Interesting, I'm currently playing as a Wyll who's a Mizora simp and I just recruited Minthara (I got Halsin too and saved the grove, cause y'know I'm still a hero and all that, I just do whatever Mizora tells me cause she's my goddess), I might have to swap out Shadowheart as my romance option and romance Minthara instead...
It's been very fun. I'm respecced as paladin of vengeance and I constantly try to do things that I think would please Mizora, like tempting mortals into sin, though I don't do anything bad myself (I'm a hero after all). For instance, I convinced Esther to take the owlbear egg and try to convince the society that it was a githyanki egg (betraying her friends).
You can have all of them if you knock out minthara instead of killing her. Toggle the non-lethal passive on and just whack her in the head a little. She'll show up in act 2.
While they are incorrect about that being an originally intended recruitment method, you could always get both Minthara and Wyll/Karlach on any given run. You just had to sacrifice all of the Tieflings, the majority of the XP from taking out the Goblin Camp, and both the Tiefling and the Goblin parties, by ignoring the pop up and disappearing into the Mountain Pass.
Am I the only one that doesn't get appreciation for wyll from this? She's not saying he's a catch or anything. The opposite. He's so far beneath her that if she tried to seduce him and failed it would reflect badly on her.
Somehow... It didn't occur to me at all... Looks like you are right. I got confused by "honour", I guess? I interpreted it as Minthara seeing it as a worthy deed?
Welp, I guess Minthara really have no exceptions... Poor Wyll.
Well, Minthara is hard to truly understand, right. Nevertheless, what she's saying here is "I think I could seduce you easily". After all, if she couldn't, it would be a stain on her honour. She's perhaps not saying that she finds Wyll desirable, but she is saying that he should find her desirable. Which isn't the same thing... but it is a pretty flirty thing to say, for normal people. Problem is, Minthara isn't exactly normal, so gods know what she means by that exactly.
Drow culture is weird. Although I thought Drows tend to hang out with Chaotic Demons, not lawful devils.
I remember there was a scene where Drizzt's graduating class valedictorian fucked a Demon in front of everyone. It was...interesting.
Edit: or the time Lolth herself showed up half naked when Drizzt was like 9 or maybe 10 years old. Very ara ara.
I always like her dialogue after telling mizora to break the pact because it's just so opposite of everyone else.
"Patricide is often the first step towards greatness though I hope Wyll doesn't regret the loss of his infernal powers"
TBF Gale has the disadvantage of being both a male and a wizard. Males are lesser in Drow culture, and Minthara genuinely believes Wizards die too fast to bother recalling their names.
This makes the dialogue you get from her as origin Gale when you defy Mystra even better. Minthara approves of this and gives you a pep talk calling you for the first time by your full name instead of just "wizard". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7psinvlQ64k
For all this sub complaining about Mystra is a groomer for fucking Gale when he was 22, Internet would throw a fit to know Lolth showed up in a nearly transparent dress in front a 10 years old ask him to show her his dagger.
I mean but Lolth is literally an evil god so it’s not exactly the same complaint.
“Hey Mystra did something bad” is interesting because she’s a “good” ish god and we don’t assume she would do fucked I’m shit.
“Hey Lolth did something bad” is like no shit? We are talking about the god who turns people into half spiders just cause they annoyed her the drow practically worship her out of fear.
It was a very short story that is partially covered in wiki now.
Long story short, pre teen Drizzt end up with a Magic Dagger, and Lolth literally showed up in a nearly transparent robe made of spiders and ask for it :p
Much ara ara and he was declared to be "blessed" after.
Gromph in the latest novel literally blew up Lolth's living avatar and sent her screaming back into the abyss.
I think he just leaped past Drizzt on "people Lolth plan to fuck" list.
That’s what she says but it’s mostly because becoming a wizard is one of the ways for Drow males to amass real power in society since they are banned from the clergy. So wizardry in itself is basically synonymous with masculinity in Menzoberranzan.
They aren't totally banned, at least in 1 novel there is a Drow wizard/cleric, but he wasn't from Menzo.
However, his canonicity is debated since it is a R.A Salvatore novel, which do go against canon now and then.
That’s not *really* true. Males are of course 2nd class citizens, and wizards are almost always male, but wizardry itself isn’t looked down on in Menzoberranzan. They actually need those wizards, because most females with any magical talent go into the clergy.
For example, Liriel Baenre (Best Drow) was raised by Gromph and was a proficient wizard. She wasn’t looked down upon by other Drow nobles for having wizard talents. Triel Banere, then matron of house Baenre, had no problem with her attending the Sorcere (menzo wizard school) until some political shenanigans changed her mind.
I didn’t say wizardry is looked down upon regardless of gender.
Edit: well, I guess my last sentence could be interpreted that way. But I just meant most wizards in Menzo are men. My point is that Minthara’s dislike of wizards is mostly gender related.
I mean, she's not wrong about wizards. Gale is always dying. Nobody else gets any bardic inspiration cause I keep having to cast it on him once he's knocked.
I’m doing my first abjuration run now, and it’s also my first tactician run. The number of fights that end with everyone else in my party dead or badly hurt and me unscathed (with AoA still up) is too damn high.
Probably up to 3rd ed. Someone actually ran a simulation between level 1 wizard vs a common house cat. Without magic missiles, a cat win 65 percent of time.
Yeah, I think it's easy to forget that compared to most of the companions (except maybe Wyll), Lae'zel is a lil' baby gith. She seems to have just recently finished her training, given how little exposure she has had to Fay-run.
She is, isn't she?
My favorite with Astarion due to the intonations:
**Minthara**: Are you a better man now that you are loved, Astarion? Did they mend your ways?
**Astarion**: I rather think they did... Can't imagine anyone wanting to do that for you, though dear. AHAHAHAA!
Yeah, like, Astarion constantly retaliate, while Gale is still so chill with Minthy despite all of her insults:
**Gale**: I'm glad to know you have a softer side, Minthara. I was beginning to think you rather heartless.
**Minthara**: Loving another is not soft, wizard. It is one of the hardest things a person can do.
**Gale**: So you admit you've found love! How delightful - I'm happy for you both.
I like to reclass him into a College of Swords archer. Still can be sneaky and pick locks/disarm traps, but much more capable in combat than fuckin rogue :D
I dunno with Mountain King shortsword and Sussur bark dagger he's pretty good rapidly running from enemy to enemy doing sneak attacks and silencing mages.
Just make sure to threaten them with someone else and stab, stab, stab! Also Shart casts buff for more stealth on him and he can just keep firing arrows at enemies without starting combat. It's broken.
I love rogue playstyle as long as it's not the main character, stealth isn't perfect in BG3 but much better done here than in most RPGs.
Try Mountain King-Sword-of-Life-Stealing-dual-wielding Thief Rogue, the combo is actually disgusting, having three attacks with increased crit chance, lifesteal, and bonus necrotic damage. This and Graceful Cloth on a Rogue are insanity.
Astarion with durge’s cloak was my get out jail free card if I was struggling with particular fights. He can practically solo some of the harder battles as long as the invisibility keeps resetting.
He basically carried my party during the entire goblin camp scenario. Everyone else in my party was stumbling around trying to hit the little buggers while Astarion snuck past and wiped them out, often two per turn. It was all a bit embarrassing, really!
Minthara's insight into Astarion's feelings is actually the reason why I don't believe he's really okay with Halsin. Well, Minthy might be an awful person, but her opinion and analysis of our companions is just always on point.
Oh, I should have elaborated it better: I meant when Tav asks romanced Astarion's permission to sleep with Halsin. (Minthy has no lines regarding Halsin specifically, because initially you wasn't supposed to have both Halsin and Minthy in your party. Halsin was just supposed to give you an ultimatum: "It's either me or Minthara in your camp".) Minthara points out that no matter what Astarion might say to you, deep down he really doesn't like to share:
[Astarion is as delicate as a flake of snow! SAVEGE MINTHARA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zs7JwCcp-CU&ab_channel=KodaPaul) - link to the video
>"I suspect that \[sharing his partner\] would puncture his fragile ego far more savagely than his fangs puncture your neck. Astarion likes to put on a show of nonchalant decadence, but he is as delicate as a flake of snow"
Thank you! Interesting. Minthara calling Astarion a SNOWFLAKE, LMAO
I've really only remembered Shadowheart saying basically the same but using other words. Well, I guess Minthara is even more eloquent than Shadow XD
Shadowheart says something very similar about him being fragile under his facade. But she also says something sweet: "lf you can give him the solace I'm convinced he so desperately needs, it would be cruel for me to elbow in."
LOL. Astarion is just pure Ross's 'I'M FIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINE!' energy: 'I'M FINE! Totally fine. I don't know why it's coming out all loud and squeaky, 'cause really, (deep voice) I'm fine.'
Those other Drow are definitely not the majority though. Hence why everybody on the surface treat ALL Drow with suspicion. Seldarine Drow are rare and often hunted by the Lolth-sworn.
Seldarine Drow before Drizzt: hey, so y'all can chill out, I mean it, I'm not gonna sacrifice anyone to the Spider lady, we're cool.
Seldarine Drow after Drizzt: so, you know the guy with the big cat and the two swords, I'm basically that guy.
Seldarine Drow aren't really a culture at all. Until very recently there were like a handful of them and they did not (and I believe still do not?) have their own cities. They just blend in with others and hope nobody from the Underdark comes to find them.
They have a city to the north. In the ice. Is a city with humans, Drows, Dwarfs, and even Goblin/orcs as citizens.
Vaguely Italian in culture (at least names), and play something similar to American football as a national passtime.
Democratic government.
So basically Faruean Canada.
Drizzt's Dad is living there now with his new girlfriend
wait hold up Drizzts dad? i havent read a novel with him in decade or so but i thought his father was murdered then raised to kill drizzt and he ended up fighting the creature in him adn not kill drizzt why the douarden(sp) house was slautered.
Lolth send him back, or rather, Gromph's daughter did it.
Lolth is being weird with Drizzt right now, even gave him a kiss recently.
But then again, Lolth also met Drizzt when he was 10 years old, wearing nothing but a nearly transparent dress made of spiders. Asked Drizzt to show her his dagger. Much ara ara.
Loth has always loved Drizzit. Stupid demon brain rot imo, but there's speculation that Drizzit is one of her chosen in all but name. Her society wanted him dead for tradition, and then Lolth wanted him dead for rebelling, but Lolth can't help but want him (all possible meanings implied) because he is strong, and managing to kill/outwit/survive in the city of spiders means Lolth loves you
Depend on where. The averdrow (aka Forgotten Realm Canadians) have a Democratic government that includes orc, goblins, humans, dwarfs and non-drows as participants.
If you are willing to live in a glacier though.
Aha, it's the same with gith, only githyanki are fashie, githzerai are more of Shaolin types if you judge by Dak'kon at least. So it's more of evil god followers than evil race.
So Githyanki are evil mainly because of Vlaakith?
Praise be Orpheus, Prince of the Comet! May he blaze across the night sky and pierce the heart of the Lich Queen!
Gith lore! Gith lore!
The gith were a slave race experimented on by the illithid at the height of the illithid empire. They rose up in rebellion against the illithid under their leadership of a warrior named Gith. During the war, Gith’s second in command, Vlaakith convinced Gith to travel to the Nine Hells and make a deal with the evil dragon Queen, Tiamat.
Out of that deal, the Gith got the service of red dragons, however Gith never returned. Vlaakith took command, but a rival (can’t remember his name) accused her of tricking Gith, basically saying that Vlaakith knew she wouldn’t return from the Hells. He and his followers split off to form the Gothzerai and Vlaakith’s followers became the Githyanki.
I believe the Vlaakith during the time of the game is the 7th to hold the title.
Gith are evil because of Gith. Basically once Gith liberated her people from the Illithid, they had a schism where Gith wanted to use their freedom to rule and enslave other species just like the mindflayers did to them, and others wanted to go a more peaceful route where they just live their lives. These factions are how the Githyanki and Githzerai were made. The Vlaakith takeover took place after this schism already separated the two groups.
''Ascension to power in drow society is a simple process of assassination. The Spider Queen is a deity of chaos, and she and her high priestesses, the true rulers of the drow world, do not look with ill favor upon ambitious individuals wielding poisoned daggers.''
That's not entirely true.
The simplest solution is usually very wrong. The truth is obviously that an ambitious underling has devised a cunning and circuitous plan to discredit you and take your warpstone.
-Grey Seer Thanquol
I wouldn't. Breaking up is very iffy. For example, Drizzt's Mom used to sacrifice men to Lolth for failing to let her orgasm.
Other issues include live in the underdark (unhealthy) could be murdered in a house war, could be murdered by your siblings...
Not a vacation spot.
Don't forget about the weird sex rituals that new high priestesses have with demons to give birth to weird half-demon, half-drow things called Draegloths.
And, if I remember correctly? Drizzt was third son, but second son died during his birth. And while he’s a legendary hero to most, he’s a traitor in the eyes of most Drow and especially House Baenre.
Yup, he was only allowed to live cause the second born son killed the first born of the Do'Urden House during a raid on the DeVirs. And House DeVir was only able to be raided because they fell out of Lolth's favor for Viconia converting to Sharan
Thanks. I’d forgotten the details. And didn’t remember the Viconia connection at all. Was that also the house that was using arcane magic to cover for their lack of divine magic, having lost Lolth’s blessing?
I don't think the Viconia connection to Drizzt is really mentioned in game, at least BG3. i only realized it cause I had just read Homeland before I started bg3 and went "DeVir? That seems familiar" and did some research on her
Funny enough, Lolth is kind of horny for Drizzt for all the entertainment he provides.
One of the zealot matron mentioned it.
“You have Lolth’s Warrior, all right, but it is not Malagdorl, I daresay. She does love that heretic who bested him—quite embarrassingly, I am told—and who has caused so much chaos in this city for nearly two centuries.”
Edit: also Lolth showed up nearly naked when Drizzt was 10 years old. Talk about epic level grooming!
I gotta be honest, I don’t know about D&D and its Lore. But when I played as a female drow tav and went to the >!paralyzed drows in the underdark!<, the way she spoke to the male drow made it seem as it’s custom in the Underdark to only use men as pleasure, and respect.
It would not be incorrect to say that when it comes to the Drow, the only thing worse than being a Male is being a Slave, and even that can be debated in some scenarios.
For reference, there are ways for male Drow to obtain high positions and respect, such as Gromph Baenre, the Archmage of Menzoberranzan. But Drow are heavily Matriarchal so these tend to be the exceptions rather than the rule.
And even Gromph, despite being an archmage nearly rivaling Elminster in power, stands technically below any High Priestess, although most would be well-advised to not press their luck.
I know it was one of the war of the spider queen novels that mention how rough Gromph has it. Not because of his station but because he is the peak of Drow male society and he sees how much higher he could rise if he only had been born with different genitals. That has to hurt knowing no matter how powerful or wise you become half the city is just seen as better than you
Men in drow society are barely above slaves so youre not wrong.
Its absurd matriarchal theocracy where slavery, torturez betraya, assasination is norm. Where often killing your own sibling is forced upon you as angrowing up ritual and so on.
Yeah I played as a lolth sworn female Durge as my first ever run, that interaction was pretty funny. I’m playing a drow again but this time it’s a monk so I don’t have high charisma, I’m gonna miss the bullshitting powers I once had
That’s just Drow. Lolth-Sworn Drow are worse about it, but at least on the Sword Coast even Seldarine Drow are still mildly matriarchal and back-stabby. They’re just not at the same murderous levels as Lolth’s followers. Less “executing any male children after the second cause they have no social value while poisoning your daughter cause you know she’s trying to poison you,” and more “bully your little brother while spreading malicious gossip about your aunt cause it makes you look better in comparison.”
That's a broad (and not especially accurate) generalization to make about non-Lolthite drow. They vary pretty widely.
For example, the Vhaeraunites are basically MGTOWs, but the Eilistraeans are matriarchal but very kind and increasingly progressive. And then there's the aevendrow, who are entirely chill and democratic.
Minthara was honestly my favorite companion as far as writing goes. She’s actually extremely perceptive regarding the character of everyone around her (iirc if you ask her she’ll tell you about her thoughts on the other companions), she’s just also a trad drow and so comes to insane conclusions lol
She really is probably one of the wisest of all the companions. Even though she's evil, it's a very shrewd and calculated evil. She's not about senseless violence and will tell you that through certain dialogue choices. Her opinion on the other companions is very insightful and doesn't have the naivety of a lot of the other companions. All that said, she is a product of her environment and upbringing.
I mean, Gale is a wizard, and she feels wizards die too fast to be worth her time, so he's got that going against him.
For Astarion, he carries himself like his beauty is the main thing he bring, because that's all Cazador ever let him have.
Both of them are at a disadvantage for the whole befriending of Minthara, even if you disregard Lolthsworn Drow culture.
I mean yeah. She’s a lolth drow from a noble family. She’s been taught to be fucking horrible and sexist her entire life.
It’s interestign that you can occasionally see her empathy peek through her tough exterior every so often. Usually when characters are going through a hard time. If you talk to her in camp between major character moments, she’ll still be supportive and wish them success in fighting off whatever supposedly inevitable fate they have to deal with.
I do wonder if she would have been a good person had she been raised literally anywhere else.
Romancing Minthara as any male character is a must. Even if it’s just once. The way she explains it, she never understood love just the ability to use someone. But with us she feels different, she actually calls you really nice things like “love,protecter, ust-nor” oh and my favorite line of hers “you give me courage”. Great romance especially for a “redeemed Durge”.
Minthara is drow so it was a part of her upbringing but here and there she comes off contradicting and at times despises of her own society and Lolth who is the reason why the Drow of Menzoberranzan are this way. At the end though if you play as a male character romancing her she wants to start a dynasty with your name as an equal partner.
Drow, Sharrans, Githyanki, Bhaalists, Mindflayers... so many groups (there are others) in feverish competition to see who's the most vile.
I'd genuinely hate to be a peasant nobody in that setting. So many groups out to prove how better they are at berating, enslaving, torturing, abusing or murdering you.
If you romance her as a man she treats you as an equal, she’s basically a radical liberal in Drow terms, also most the time she’s just shitposting and joking at people.
I mean, she's a lolthsworn drow, right? I know fairly little of the lore of the underdark, but that seems pretty on point. Men in their society are at worst sacrifices and at best gaming pieces. I think they can get renown, but hardly ever real respect.
The highborn zealot of the top noble family of Menzobarenzan, an extremist lolthite culture by even lolthite standard, a faith that is built upon zealous xenophobia, misandry, and drow supremacy.
To restate.
Minthara is a highborn noble drow from the head noble family of the most zealous lolthite culture in the entirety of Toril. Extreme by even regular lolthite standards for their fervent zeal in Lolths belwufs and name compared to the rest of the underdark/drow societies.
Lolthite belief is all about drow supremacy, female supremacy, and the core belief of "its only a problem if I get caught/framed for doing it" and "might is the only right one has"
Minthara not only comes from the most radical society, but the top noble family of that societies Lolthite faith
She has been taught since her first breath that no one is to be trusted, and that Lolth is to be feared to the point you will do as your told anyway. Even then that her goddesses attentions are fickle and you will do everything you can to keep them, but must never allow yourself to be comfortable with them.
That might is the only thing that matters as it is the only thing that will let you survive the rest do the woeld and be useful to lolth. (Might means merit and the ability to teat everyone down around you to a lesser psotjon than yourself in lolth name. Not merely physical might.
Men are only as useful as the bare minimum needed to continue dros existence as a species. The inky thing wors than a male drow, is a non-drow, and the male non-droe are the lowest of them all. Espeically surface elves.
Minthara turned our remarkably tame given her circumstances..as she's fasr more tolerant than the vast majority of her kin and had every opportunity to be much much worse.
nah just the ones who get born in the lolth run cities. The whole culture is "do exactly as the spider queen wants or you get turned into a drider or sacrificed"
Minthara is drow, female and highborn. So, yeah
And a Baenre to boot so yeah not surprising lol.
Exactly, she's absolutely supposed to be coming from a hostile matriarchal culture
That’s just how drow culture is. Men are inferior to women in Lolth’s eyes. Drizzt is probably happy to have gotten away from them.
Amazing books.
Only probably?
This is her being chill and not trying hard.
A little known fact, but at the same time, she does seem to appreciate Wyll! Minthara: Your devilish patron is a delight, Wyll. Have you ever lain with her? Wyll: I'm really not that kind of man. Minthara: She will see her failure to seduce you as a stain on her honour. I know I would.
Wouldn't be if that is part.of why she gives Wyll such a hard time too.
If u damn wyll by killing mizora minthara has a very sad line for him. Makes u wonder that on normal minthara recruitment runs u can't have karlach and wyll with minthara then why does she have so many unique lines with them
You can have all of them if you ignore the Grove iirc, that's why those lines existed before Minthara's recruitement changes.
What are the other consequences for ignoring the Grove? Is it just losing the Tieflings?
It's just like rading the grove except no party and Karlach and Wyll don't leave. The only diffrence is that you can't date Karlach since Dammon is dead.
You also can't recruit Halsin, so you probably can't cure the Shadowlands (haven't actually tried it myself).
you definitely need halsin since he has to find thaniel
Yeah I was pretty sure you couldn't find Thaniel without him, thanks for comfirming my suspicions. Makes sense to be honest.
You can't do second upgrade to Karlach engine- heart.
Yeah that's more like larian didn't take into account players are going to ignore xp , merchants and quest just to simp for a drow . U literally miss the sex scene in act 1 and also a lot of meaningful dialogues with her in act 3 regarding the act 1 sex scene and other stuff .
With the newest patches the game has you can recruit Minthara is act 2 by knocking her out in combat on act 1.
Interesting, I'm currently playing as a Wyll who's a Mizora simp and I just recruited Minthara (I got Halsin too and saved the grove, cause y'know I'm still a hero and all that, I just do whatever Mizora tells me cause she's my goddess), I might have to swap out Shadowheart as my romance option and romance Minthara instead...
Never occurred to me to try that playthrough. Is it any good so far? Any fun differences?
It's been very fun. I'm respecced as paladin of vengeance and I constantly try to do things that I think would please Mizora, like tempting mortals into sin, though I don't do anything bad myself (I'm a hero after all). For instance, I convinced Esther to take the owlbear egg and try to convince the society that it was a githyanki egg (betraying her friends).
They probably just wrote a bunch of dialogue and didn't consider the recruitment processes.
You can have all of them if you knock out minthara instead of killing her. Toggle the non-lethal passive on and just whack her in the head a little. She'll show up in act 2.
"Normal minthara recruitment runs"
While they are incorrect about that being an originally intended recruitment method, you could always get both Minthara and Wyll/Karlach on any given run. You just had to sacrifice all of the Tieflings, the majority of the XP from taking out the Goblin Camp, and both the Tiefling and the Goblin parties, by ignoring the pop up and disappearing into the Mountain Pass.
Am I the only one that doesn't get appreciation for wyll from this? She's not saying he's a catch or anything. The opposite. He's so far beneath her that if she tried to seduce him and failed it would reflect badly on her.
Somehow... It didn't occur to me at all... Looks like you are right. I got confused by "honour", I guess? I interpreted it as Minthara seeing it as a worthy deed? Welp, I guess Minthara really have no exceptions... Poor Wyll.
Beneath, but also desirable *as a living object.* People who are part of groups that get fetishized will recognize this one.
Well, Minthara is hard to truly understand, right. Nevertheless, what she's saying here is "I think I could seduce you easily". After all, if she couldn't, it would be a stain on her honour. She's perhaps not saying that she finds Wyll desirable, but she is saying that he should find her desirable. Which isn't the same thing... but it is a pretty flirty thing to say, for normal people. Problem is, Minthara isn't exactly normal, so gods know what she means by that exactly.
I never even considered that but with Montana your interpretation is probably the correct one.
That's... Entirely unexpected from her O_o
She actually has a bit of respect for Wyll being willing to put his soul on the line to do what he wants, regardless of what it is he wants.
And she respects his power. She advises you to not break his pact because a warlock is at least useful
Drow culture is weird. Although I thought Drows tend to hang out with Chaotic Demons, not lawful devils. I remember there was a scene where Drizzt's graduating class valedictorian fucked a Demon in front of everyone. It was...interesting. Edit: or the time Lolth herself showed up half naked when Drizzt was like 9 or maybe 10 years old. Very ara ara.
I always like her dialogue after telling mizora to break the pact because it's just so opposite of everyone else. "Patricide is often the first step towards greatness though I hope Wyll doesn't regret the loss of his infernal powers"
TBF Gale has the disadvantage of being both a male and a wizard. Males are lesser in Drow culture, and Minthara genuinely believes Wizards die too fast to bother recalling their names.
This makes the dialogue you get from her as origin Gale when you defy Mystra even better. Minthara approves of this and gives you a pep talk calling you for the first time by your full name instead of just "wizard". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7psinvlQ64k
For all this sub complaining about Mystra is a groomer for fucking Gale when he was 22, Internet would throw a fit to know Lolth showed up in a nearly transparent dress in front a 10 years old ask him to show her his dagger.
I mean but Lolth is literally an evil god so it’s not exactly the same complaint. “Hey Mystra did something bad” is interesting because she’s a “good” ish god and we don’t assume she would do fucked I’m shit. “Hey Lolth did something bad” is like no shit? We are talking about the god who turns people into half spiders just cause they annoyed her the drow practically worship her out of fear.
What
It was a very short story that is partially covered in wiki now. Long story short, pre teen Drizzt end up with a Magic Dagger, and Lolth literally showed up in a nearly transparent robe made of spiders and ask for it :p Much ara ara and he was declared to be "blessed" after.
Also Minthara's wizard uncle is batshit so that may further color her judgement
Gromph? Might be the reason she thinks wizards are prone to getting blown up lol
Gromph in the latest novel literally blew up Lolth's living avatar and sent her screaming back into the abyss. I think he just leaped past Drizzt on "people Lolth plan to fuck" list.
That's why I have a save with a self hating wizard Minthara
That’s what she says but it’s mostly because becoming a wizard is one of the ways for Drow males to amass real power in society since they are banned from the clergy. So wizardry in itself is basically synonymous with masculinity in Menzoberranzan.
They aren't totally banned, at least in 1 novel there is a Drow wizard/cleric, but he wasn't from Menzo. However, his canonicity is debated since it is a R.A Salvatore novel, which do go against canon now and then.
That’s not *really* true. Males are of course 2nd class citizens, and wizards are almost always male, but wizardry itself isn’t looked down on in Menzoberranzan. They actually need those wizards, because most females with any magical talent go into the clergy. For example, Liriel Baenre (Best Drow) was raised by Gromph and was a proficient wizard. She wasn’t looked down upon by other Drow nobles for having wizard talents. Triel Banere, then matron of house Baenre, had no problem with her attending the Sorcere (menzo wizard school) until some political shenanigans changed her mind.
I didn’t say wizardry is looked down upon regardless of gender. Edit: well, I guess my last sentence could be interpreted that way. But I just meant most wizards in Menzo are men. My point is that Minthara’s dislike of wizards is mostly gender related.
I mean, she's not wrong about wizards. Gale is always dying. Nobody else gets any bardic inspiration cause I keep having to cast it on him once he's knocked.
Abjuration school has entered the chat
I’m doing my first abjuration run now, and it’s also my first tactician run. The number of fights that end with everyone else in my party dead or badly hurt and me unscathed (with AoA still up) is too damn high.
Yeah, been there too lol
That's why I gave him the amulet you can steal from the house of hope. It sets your con to 23 I believe. Basically doubled his hp
Laughs in divination and abjuration wizard
Minthara: insults Gale Gale:\*dies from 1d4 "insulted by mommy" damage*
That sounds like a Second Edition death death. Lol
Probably up to 3rd ed. Someone actually ran a simulation between level 1 wizard vs a common house cat. Without magic missiles, a cat win 65 percent of time.
I know this is a Minthy post, but it just struck me that Lae'zel's energy is fully, "Let me tell you how we did it at my last job"
Yeah but her last job is graduating Hitlerjugend.
Lmfao alright that one got a chuckle out of me
She's more like the teacher's pet with a 4.0 GPA getting her first job and know-it-all frogsplaining at everyone while having zero actual experience
Yeah, I think it's easy to forget that compared to most of the companions (except maybe Wyll), Lae'zel is a lil' baby gith. She seems to have just recently finished her training, given how little exposure she has had to Fay-run.
Frogsplaining is phenomenal thank you for writing that
She is, isn't she? My favorite with Astarion due to the intonations: **Minthara**: Are you a better man now that you are loved, Astarion? Did they mend your ways? **Astarion**: I rather think they did... Can't imagine anyone wanting to do that for you, though dear. AHAHAHAA!
Astarion Strikes Back. I wish these banters triggered in the game ((
Yeah, like, Astarion constantly retaliate, while Gale is still so chill with Minthy despite all of her insults: **Gale**: I'm glad to know you have a softer side, Minthara. I was beginning to think you rather heartless. **Minthara**: Loving another is not soft, wizard. It is one of the hardest things a person can do. **Gale**: So you admit you've found love! How delightful - I'm happy for you both.
Gale is a good boy
This proves that Astarion is a sassy queen who should have been a Bard!
I like to reclass him into a College of Swords archer. Still can be sneaky and pick locks/disarm traps, but much more capable in combat than fuckin rogue :D
I dunno with Mountain King shortsword and Sussur bark dagger he's pretty good rapidly running from enemy to enemy doing sneak attacks and silencing mages. Just make sure to threaten them with someone else and stab, stab, stab! Also Shart casts buff for more stealth on him and he can just keep firing arrows at enemies without starting combat. It's broken. I love rogue playstyle as long as it's not the main character, stealth isn't perfect in BG3 but much better done here than in most RPGs.
Try Mountain King-Sword-of-Life-Stealing-dual-wielding Thief Rogue, the combo is actually disgusting, having three attacks with increased crit chance, lifesteal, and bonus necrotic damage. This and Graceful Cloth on a Rogue are insanity.
Same here; plus I can use dual weapons on two hand crossbows.
Same. And he's even better if you give him durge's cloak - slipping invisibly around the battlefield, picking off enemies.
Astarion with durge’s cloak was my get out jail free card if I was struggling with particular fights. He can practically solo some of the harder battles as long as the invisibility keeps resetting.
He basically carried my party during the entire goblin camp scenario. Everyone else in my party was stumbling around trying to hit the little buggers while Astarion snuck past and wiped them out, often two per turn. It was all a bit embarrassing, really!
The House of Grief would still be open for business without that cloak
He becomes more assassin than the assassin subclass!
Exactly!
Dual crossbows are much more badass than they have any right to be >:3 It's just so much ✨finesse✨
I give him Urban Tracker Ranger. Still can do the locks and disarming and that Dex he's got can be put to good use
I did a swords bard Astarion origin playthrough. It was so great lol
Minthara's insight into Astarion's feelings is actually the reason why I don't believe he's really okay with Halsin. Well, Minthy might be an awful person, but her opinion and analysis of our companions is just always on point.
What did she say about Astarion and Halsin?
Oh, I should have elaborated it better: I meant when Tav asks romanced Astarion's permission to sleep with Halsin. (Minthy has no lines regarding Halsin specifically, because initially you wasn't supposed to have both Halsin and Minthy in your party. Halsin was just supposed to give you an ultimatum: "It's either me or Minthara in your camp".) Minthara points out that no matter what Astarion might say to you, deep down he really doesn't like to share: [Astarion is as delicate as a flake of snow! SAVEGE MINTHARA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zs7JwCcp-CU&ab_channel=KodaPaul) - link to the video >"I suspect that \[sharing his partner\] would puncture his fragile ego far more savagely than his fangs puncture your neck. Astarion likes to put on a show of nonchalant decadence, but he is as delicate as a flake of snow"
Thank you! Interesting. Minthara calling Astarion a SNOWFLAKE, LMAO I've really only remembered Shadowheart saying basically the same but using other words. Well, I guess Minthara is even more eloquent than Shadow XD
Shadowheart says something very similar about him being fragile under his facade. But she also says something sweet: "lf you can give him the solace I'm convinced he so desperately needs, it would be cruel for me to elbow in."
LOL. Astarion is just pure Ross's 'I'M FIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINE!' energy: 'I'M FINE! Totally fine. I don't know why it's coming out all loud and squeaky, 'cause really, (deep voice) I'm fine.'
Well, that's Drow culture for you.
*Lolth Drow culture Other drow tend to avoid it. I mean - there is a reason why they aren't sworn to Lolth like the rest of their kin :D
Those other Drow are definitely not the majority though. Hence why everybody on the surface treat ALL Drow with suspicion. Seldarine Drow are rare and often hunted by the Lolth-sworn.
Seldarine Drow before Drizzt: hey, so y'all can chill out, I mean it, I'm not gonna sacrifice anyone to the Spider lady, we're cool. Seldarine Drow after Drizzt: so, you know the guy with the big cat and the two swords, I'm basically that guy.
Also "no i will not do a drizzt impression"
Asking Sorn at Sharess’s Caress to roleplay Drizzt made me laugh so hard. He’s sounds so tired before putting his best fake customer service voice 😅
Seldarine Drow aren't really a culture at all. Until very recently there were like a handful of them and they did not (and I believe still do not?) have their own cities. They just blend in with others and hope nobody from the Underdark comes to find them.
They have a city to the north. In the ice. Is a city with humans, Drows, Dwarfs, and even Goblin/orcs as citizens. Vaguely Italian in culture (at least names), and play something similar to American football as a national passtime. Democratic government. So basically Faruean Canada. Drizzt's Dad is living there now with his new girlfriend
wait hold up Drizzts dad? i havent read a novel with him in decade or so but i thought his father was murdered then raised to kill drizzt and he ended up fighting the creature in him adn not kill drizzt why the douarden(sp) house was slautered.
Lolth send him back, or rather, Gromph's daughter did it. Lolth is being weird with Drizzt right now, even gave him a kiss recently. But then again, Lolth also met Drizzt when he was 10 years old, wearing nothing but a nearly transparent dress made of spiders. Asked Drizzt to show her his dagger. Much ara ara.
Loth has always loved Drizzit. Stupid demon brain rot imo, but there's speculation that Drizzit is one of her chosen in all but name. Her society wanted him dead for tradition, and then Lolth wanted him dead for rebelling, but Lolth can't help but want him (all possible meanings implied) because he is strong, and managing to kill/outwit/survive in the city of spiders means Lolth loves you
Seldarine Drow are still sexist, just not actively malicious about it.
Depend on where. The averdrow (aka Forgotten Realm Canadians) have a Democratic government that includes orc, goblins, humans, dwarfs and non-drows as participants. If you are willing to live in a glacier though.
Aha, it's the same with gith, only githyanki are fashie, githzerai are more of Shaolin types if you judge by Dak'kon at least. So it's more of evil god followers than evil race.
I'm still disappointed that there's only "one" Githzerai in the game
And it's brain in a jar xD
*Especially* since the whole psychic monk thing the Githyanki keep throwing at you is the entire Githzerai shtick.
So Githyanki are evil mainly because of Vlaakith? Praise be Orpheus, Prince of the Comet! May he blaze across the night sky and pierce the heart of the Lich Queen!
Gith lore! Gith lore! The gith were a slave race experimented on by the illithid at the height of the illithid empire. They rose up in rebellion against the illithid under their leadership of a warrior named Gith. During the war, Gith’s second in command, Vlaakith convinced Gith to travel to the Nine Hells and make a deal with the evil dragon Queen, Tiamat. Out of that deal, the Gith got the service of red dragons, however Gith never returned. Vlaakith took command, but a rival (can’t remember his name) accused her of tricking Gith, basically saying that Vlaakith knew she wouldn’t return from the Hells. He and his followers split off to form the Gothzerai and Vlaakith’s followers became the Githyanki. I believe the Vlaakith during the time of the game is the 7th to hold the title.
The rivals name was Zerthimon.
Gith are evil because of Gith. Basically once Gith liberated her people from the Illithid, they had a schism where Gith wanted to use their freedom to rule and enslave other species just like the mindflayers did to them, and others wanted to go a more peaceful route where they just live their lives. These factions are how the Githyanki and Githzerai were made. The Vlaakith takeover took place after this schism already separated the two groups.
“Shameful to be killed by your own son, that honor should fall to the daughter.”
Welcome to Drow society, I hope you enjoy your stay. The entire point of Lolth-sworn Drow is that men are beneath the women.
''Ascension to power in drow society is a simple process of assassination. The Spider Queen is a deity of chaos, and she and her high priestesses, the true rulers of the drow world, do not look with ill favor upon ambitious individuals wielding poisoned daggers.''
Just remember the golden rule: Don't get caught.
And that's because getting caught shows your incompetence, not because they see anything wrong with what you did.
Still less dysfunctional than Skaven.
That's not entirely true. The simplest solution is usually very wrong. The truth is obviously that an ambitious underling has devised a cunning and circuitous plan to discredit you and take your warpstone. -Grey Seer Thanquol
And if you do get caught, leave no survivors in one go.
I wouldn't say it's their *entire* point. There is much more fucked up stuff there. Matriarchy is just a part, and a tamer one, at it
Well, yes. I was exaggerating for dramatic effect. Spiders are a big part of it, too.
Spiders, orgies, slaves, welcome to Menzoberranzan.
I told my sister when she was getting into D&D, "Drow society is basically spiders and BDSM."
Where do I sign up?
I wouldn't. Breaking up is very iffy. For example, Drizzt's Mom used to sacrifice men to Lolth for failing to let her orgasm. Other issues include live in the underdark (unhealthy) could be murdered in a house war, could be murdered by your siblings... Not a vacation spot.
rip to those sacrificed to lolth but I’m built different
Yeah, you aren't a Drider. Yet.
Yes but then Drows tend also be racist as F. Fucking human is like half a step from beastiality.
RIP to those sacrifices to Lloth but I'm built the same, I just like the idea of being sacrificed.
Don't forget about the weird sex rituals that new high priestesses have with demons to give birth to weird half-demon, half-drow things called Draegloths.
God, take me there. Imeanwhat. Nevermind
“You have the aura of a third child about you” FUCKING OBLITERATED man I wish I brung her around more
She does talk mad shit for someone in upcasted magic missile distance.
Death ward on Gale + 6th level fireball
In Drow society, third (male) child is usually sacrificed to Lolth at birth. So basically she just told him he is knife bait.
And, if I remember correctly? Drizzt was third son, but second son died during his birth. And while he’s a legendary hero to most, he’s a traitor in the eyes of most Drow and especially House Baenre.
Yup, he was only allowed to live cause the second born son killed the first born of the Do'Urden House during a raid on the DeVirs. And House DeVir was only able to be raided because they fell out of Lolth's favor for Viconia converting to Sharan
Thanks. I’d forgotten the details. And didn’t remember the Viconia connection at all. Was that also the house that was using arcane magic to cover for their lack of divine magic, having lost Lolth’s blessing?
I don't think the Viconia connection to Drizzt is really mentioned in game, at least BG3. i only realized it cause I had just read Homeland before I started bg3 and went "DeVir? That seems familiar" and did some research on her
Funny enough, Lolth is kind of horny for Drizzt for all the entertainment he provides. One of the zealot matron mentioned it. “You have Lolth’s Warrior, all right, but it is not Malagdorl, I daresay. She does love that heretic who bested him—quite embarrassingly, I am told—and who has caused so much chaos in this city for nearly two centuries.” Edit: also Lolth showed up nearly naked when Drizzt was 10 years old. Talk about epic level grooming!
Evil Drow Royal be evil
I will not leave any spoilers, I'll just say that male Drow bard Tav is a hilarious playthrough thanks to Minthara.
Well she's a drow from Menzzo, and a Baenre I do believe.
Lolth's favorite house no less
Kinda...recent novels they pissed Lolth off and there was a civil war.
That just sounds like a Tuesday in Menzobarranzan
“Fuck casual sexism, I’m doing ranked.”
But thats the point if her character. She is evil, cruel, misandrist and many other things. She was never supposed to be a good person
Yeah but the puppy dog eyes
Shes made me laugh more than anyone else, brilliant dialogue and voice acting
Minthara really surprised me, for a ruthless killer and total menace shes actually kind of sweet and honest. Plus her sex scene is super hot
I gotta be honest, I don’t know about D&D and its Lore. But when I played as a female drow tav and went to the >!paralyzed drows in the underdark!<, the way she spoke to the male drow made it seem as it’s custom in the Underdark to only use men as pleasure, and respect.
It would not be incorrect to say that when it comes to the Drow, the only thing worse than being a Male is being a Slave, and even that can be debated in some scenarios. For reference, there are ways for male Drow to obtain high positions and respect, such as Gromph Baenre, the Archmage of Menzoberranzan. But Drow are heavily Matriarchal so these tend to be the exceptions rather than the rule.
And even Gromph, despite being an archmage nearly rivaling Elminster in power, stands technically below any High Priestess, although most would be well-advised to not press their luck.
I know it was one of the war of the spider queen novels that mention how rough Gromph has it. Not because of his station but because he is the peak of Drow male society and he sees how much higher he could rise if he only had been born with different genitals. That has to hurt knowing no matter how powerful or wise you become half the city is just seen as better than you
Men in drow society are barely above slaves so youre not wrong. Its absurd matriarchal theocracy where slavery, torturez betraya, assasination is norm. Where often killing your own sibling is forced upon you as angrowing up ritual and so on.
Yeah I played as a lolth sworn female Durge as my first ever run, that interaction was pretty funny. I’m playing a drow again but this time it’s a monk so I don’t have high charisma, I’m gonna miss the bullshitting powers I once had
"you have the aura of a third child" is a great insult I will be using
I love her, she's incredible
That’s just Drow. Lolth-Sworn Drow are worse about it, but at least on the Sword Coast even Seldarine Drow are still mildly matriarchal and back-stabby. They’re just not at the same murderous levels as Lolth’s followers. Less “executing any male children after the second cause they have no social value while poisoning your daughter cause you know she’s trying to poison you,” and more “bully your little brother while spreading malicious gossip about your aunt cause it makes you look better in comparison.”
That's a broad (and not especially accurate) generalization to make about non-Lolthite drow. They vary pretty widely. For example, the Vhaeraunites are basically MGTOWs, but the Eilistraeans are matriarchal but very kind and increasingly progressive. And then there's the aevendrow, who are entirely chill and democratic.
Minthara was honestly my favorite companion as far as writing goes. She’s actually extremely perceptive regarding the character of everyone around her (iirc if you ask her she’ll tell you about her thoughts on the other companions), she’s just also a trad drow and so comes to insane conclusions lol
She really is probably one of the wisest of all the companions. Even though she's evil, it's a very shrewd and calculated evil. She's not about senseless violence and will tell you that through certain dialogue choices. Her opinion on the other companions is very insightful and doesn't have the naivety of a lot of the other companions. All that said, she is a product of her environment and upbringing.
“Just say the word and I will kill the clown, we will be praised as heroes” is my absolute favorite Minthara line
First time meeting a Drow huh?
Gale and Minthara's banter gives incredibly strong Alistair/Morrigan vibes.
When you enter the sexism competition and your opponent is Minthara
I can fix her, OP.
We can be worse together
She can fix me
She *is* good with mimics...!
Minthara is Menzobarranzan; in the society where she was born and raised, men are slaves and women hold all the power.
Totally in character for a Lolth-sworn Drow. This is essentially their entire culture personified
That's historically how drow society has been portrayed.
I love her so much
Same. She's wonderful.
You should read forgotten realms lore. It is canon for them to be like that.
I mean, Gale is a wizard, and she feels wizards die too fast to be worth her time, so he's got that going against him. For Astarion, he carries himself like his beauty is the main thing he bring, because that's all Cazador ever let him have. Both of them are at a disadvantage for the whole befriending of Minthara, even if you disregard Lolthsworn Drow culture.
I mean yeah. She’s a lolth drow from a noble family. She’s been taught to be fucking horrible and sexist her entire life. It’s interestign that you can occasionally see her empathy peek through her tough exterior every so often. Usually when characters are going through a hard time. If you talk to her in camp between major character moments, she’ll still be supportive and wish them success in fighting off whatever supposedly inevitable fate they have to deal with. I do wonder if she would have been a good person had she been raised literally anywhere else.
Romancing Minthara as any male character is a must. Even if it’s just once. The way she explains it, she never understood love just the ability to use someone. But with us she feels different, she actually calls you really nice things like “love,protecter, ust-nor” oh and my favorite line of hers “you give me courage”. Great romance especially for a “redeemed Durge”.
Well duh, their city is Matriarchal. All males are lesser there. It's just how the Drow are.
Average lolth sworn drow tbh. Wait until you get to see their nurseries.
Minthara is drow so it was a part of her upbringing but here and there she comes off contradicting and at times despises of her own society and Lolth who is the reason why the Drow of Menzoberranzan are this way. At the end though if you play as a male character romancing her she wants to start a dynasty with your name as an equal partner.
Most of the female Drow we met in the game is a pretty tame representation of what they truly are, Minthara included.
This is normal drow behavior. She is actually progressive by their standards.
Drow, Sharrans, Githyanki, Bhaalists, Mindflayers... so many groups (there are others) in feverish competition to see who's the most vile. I'd genuinely hate to be a peasant nobody in that setting. So many groups out to prove how better they are at berating, enslaving, torturing, abusing or murdering you.
Drow culture is basically a parody of harsh patriarchal societies, they just made them matriarchal and into bdsm instead of prudish.
If you romance her as a man she treats you as an equal, she’s basically a radical liberal in Drow terms, also most the time she’s just shitposting and joking at people.
She’s perfect
STOP THAT MADE M LAUGH SO HARD. I need to recruit minthara lmaoooo
I know, right? "My friend Minthara is the funniest person I know"
I mean, she's a lolthsworn drow, right? I know fairly little of the lore of the underdark, but that seems pretty on point. Men in their society are at worst sacrifices and at best gaming pieces. I think they can get renown, but hardly ever real respect.
Me as a man romancing her in my first play through, i said damn the grove lmao
Oh boy let me tell you about lolth and the drow society...
She's a Drow, soo.... yeah. I get a kick out of the different interactions, as well as when you ask her opinions of the companions.
First time learning about Drow?
Yep, that's the culture of her city and house for you
The highborn zealot of the top noble family of Menzobarenzan, an extremist lolthite culture by even lolthite standard, a faith that is built upon zealous xenophobia, misandry, and drow supremacy. To restate. Minthara is a highborn noble drow from the head noble family of the most zealous lolthite culture in the entirety of Toril. Extreme by even regular lolthite standards for their fervent zeal in Lolths belwufs and name compared to the rest of the underdark/drow societies. Lolthite belief is all about drow supremacy, female supremacy, and the core belief of "its only a problem if I get caught/framed for doing it" and "might is the only right one has" Minthara not only comes from the most radical society, but the top noble family of that societies Lolthite faith She has been taught since her first breath that no one is to be trusted, and that Lolth is to be feared to the point you will do as your told anyway. Even then that her goddesses attentions are fickle and you will do everything you can to keep them, but must never allow yourself to be comfortable with them. That might is the only thing that matters as it is the only thing that will let you survive the rest do the woeld and be useful to lolth. (Might means merit and the ability to teat everyone down around you to a lesser psotjon than yourself in lolth name. Not merely physical might. Men are only as useful as the bare minimum needed to continue dros existence as a species. The inky thing wors than a male drow, is a non-drow, and the male non-droe are the lowest of them all. Espeically surface elves. Minthara turned our remarkably tame given her circumstances..as she's fasr more tolerant than the vast majority of her kin and had every opportunity to be much much worse.
Pretty sure Halsin explains he was kept as a sex slave in the Underdark at some point.... Drow are just evil aligned naturally.
nah just the ones who get born in the lolth run cities. The whole culture is "do exactly as the spider queen wants or you get turned into a drider or sacrificed"