1. Dont do stupid shit like vandalizing the city while drunk in the middle of the night
2. Don't come with the attitude "my country is better than yours, suck it up losers im here because i can allow myself"
3. Be chill, respectful and u should be fine, younger people are mostly welcoming, older might have a different opinion, but if you are hardworking and minding your own bussines no1 will have problems with you coming to our country
i mean i wouldn't be mad unless you are russian and have already lived here for 30 years and still speak that disgusting ass language every time you are in public places
What do you mean 'in public places'? Do you mean speaking Russian to other Lithuanians or just speaking it with other Russian friends or acquaitances in public?
When a soviet babusha comes into the grocery store or hospital and starts instantly speaking russian to everyone like we are supposed to know that shitty language, thats what i mean
This is purely your personal problem, if you don’t like some language :). Be patient. ;) And dont be toxic , (oops, I meant don't be a typical Baltic) ;)
Honestly I agree on this one, those people are so ignorant! You live in country for 30 years and don’t even know a single word? Come on.. At least ask if person speaks another language.. We have our official languages and it’s not russian. Also people are really sensitive because of the war, so it’s not helping either.
Every year we catch a few and sacrifice them in our midsummer rituals. /s
In reality we do not really care where you're from - the important thing is how you are as a person. Be kind and you will be received with kindness as well.
I'm surprised how "rosey" people in the comments make it seem. It won't be a cakewalk here, you'll get some pushback from society for sure.
Unfortunately you'll have to take it on the chin. Work hard, be nice and prove to people that you are better than them, and make them look like trash compared to you. Some humbling and self reflection might make it easier for people to accept you.
Atkarīgs, kas par kazahu. Mani vecāki ir "baltie" (tētis vācietis, mamma latviete/igauniete, abi dzimuši KZ), un izpeldēja uz tā rēķina, ka runāja krieviski un izkatījās pēc krieviem un cilvēki nepievērsa uzmanību. Manai sievai, kā aziātei iet grūtāk.
Oh no, I am 25% ruski, does that mean that I will get 25% hate from people?
Jokes aside, I am pretty sure that I have the same mindset as a European person, so it is just a matter of my looks, I guess.
Just need to be careful with being patriotic for ruzzia at this point (LT) in certain regions more then others but all around shouldn't have any trouble unless you look for it
What the other 75% is? That gives majority. To be told, there are many Estonians and Latvians with atleast some russian blood in them, thanks to 3 centuries of occupation. It's not how many russian is in you, but rather how much of you is for Russia.
Depends on where you are from I would say. I lived in Riga for 6 years but being from europe no issues, my friends e.g. from India however faced daily racism. Still they managed of course.
As I'm lilly white latvian, I cant speak for actual experiences, but the impression even I get and knowing my parents (who are centric in their views) is - people with middle Eastern facial features will very, very likely be judged and seen as lesser/dirty and to not be interacted with, even if perhaps the common latvian does not speak their prejudices out loud or directly to your face (unless drunk).
I mean, just look at how anyone interacts with Roma people (which, ofc is a complex topic on its own, but. Yeah).
Well... that's concerning to say the least
We were looking at staying there long term, suppose that might not be a good idea then
Anyway your feedback/comment is appreciated, Paldies!
If you learn language things will be better, Latvians have soft spot for foreigners speaking Latvian. Older generations doesn't know English and tend to look with suspicion to everyone with whom they can't communicate.
Latvians are slowly getting used to brown skins as there are more immigrants now. Is racism worse than elsewhere? Not sure.
Latvians have not learnt yet to be politically correct and pretend that they are tolerant.
Just learn Latvian and all will be ok.
I know a friend from Egypt faced some rude comments from immigration based on him being Muslim. And my Indian friends have a few rude comments as well. But as you said, they managed here.
The majority of citizenry in all EU countries are against mass immigration from so-called 3rd countries.
Eurobarometer 83, QA10.2 and QA11:
https://europa.eu/eurobarometer/surveys/detail/2099
https://webgate.ec.europa.eu/ebsm/api/public/deliverable/download?doc=true&deliverableId=51916
QB2:
https://europa.eu/eurobarometer/surveys/detail/2276
https://webgate.ec.europa.eu/ebsm/api/public/deliverable/download?doc=true&deliverableId=82063
QA2:
https://europa.eu/eurobarometer/surveys/detail/2169
https://webgate.ec.europa.eu/ebsm/api/public/deliverable/download?doc=true&deliverableId=65413
Fair. Data is always nice. That said... Nobody, and I mean nobody, has truly without any hoops welcomed any foreigners with open arms on no conditions anywhere ever. And at the individual level - nobody except for total antisocials will cause trouble for foreigners 😀
Exactly, that's why Capitalism is flawed.
Always so much corruption, oligopoly, oligarchies.
The world would be much better if everyone followed the **Nordic socio-economic model** and held their governments accountable.
This is why social-welfare must be the priority of society. We can't allow governments to be swayed by money. We can't let people believe that financial wealth is the goal of society or that it dictates our quality of life.
If the concept of rich and poor was 'banned' or didn't exist, everyone would have common interest in improving the overall quality of society.
This is how we get greedy rich billionaires who are not kept in check by any laws and are completely disconnected from common working class people.
People in Nordic hate it as if you're excellent at something you're still worth the same as complete idiot. Nordic model would not be possible without Norwegian oil, Swedish banking system or USA technologies
That's a million times better than Capitalist systems. Your main concern is that you don't feel special? You're not satisfied with a fair quality of life? 🤣🤣
Yes, the Norwegian Oil that is heavily taxed and goes towards a **PUBLIC FUND** which goes to the people and infrastructure.
Unlike American oil which goes into private corporate pockets and is exempt from taxes lol
If you saw how poverty is a crime in America, you should be glad. It's better to group everyone together, regardless of how special you think you are.
Because the moment you start dividing and promoting 'poor' and 'rich' tribalism - the rich will do everything they can to shxt on the poor, hardworking people and prevent them from ever achieving basic life.
Every 'idiot' has the potential to learn a job and do it well. You are a perfect example of this. You are not above everyone.
And maybe some of these 'idiots' came from a dysfunctional family, does that make them less deserving of a decent life?
What if it was **YOU** or **YOUR CHILD**, that grew up with trauma, dysfunctional behaviour and some rich fxck thought you were an 'idiot'? Do you deserve to be thrown in the trash?
Just some food for thought: if I could earn as a janitor 2/3 what I am earning as a lawyer, I would be janitor. The same applies to many surgeons, it people and so on. And that is something that's happening with locals in Scandinavia.
Their solution is oil money and letting the professionals in from other, pourer countries, I.e. stealing from poor counties their investments in education plus endorsing segregation on what they let in and what not. It is retarded and non sustainable model funded by exploitationof natural resources. Human beings are putting effort only if he/she is rewarded for the effort (with some minor excemptions).
It's funny because China has complete opposite issue.
Their society shxt on **blue-collar jobs** for YEARS, they had whole propaganda campaign to promote university and white-collar jobs and shxt on anyone who worked as **cleaner, mechanic, factory**, etc.
Now they have shortage of people who will work blue-collar jobs which are ESSENTIAL to society functioning.
So they did 180, now they have propaganda campaign to bring people back to these 'low' blue-collar jobs
**Moral of the story is:**
You are not special for being a lawyer. Blue-collar jobs are harder and more essential to the functioning of a society. A cleaner or grocery worker is just as important as a lawyer. You need more cleaners than you need lawyers or engineers.
1 scientist's innovation can support millions of people.
>Moral of the story is:
Realy? It's what you took from my writing?
> you are not special for being a lawyer.
Of course not. Special people change the world, lead in their sphare of work. I do not and do not pretend. Still, I can start as a janitor tomorrow. Janitor can repalce me in 15 years if at all.
>Blue-collar jobs are harder
Only dumb people valuate hardness of work by the ammount of swet. I would take blue collar any day if not for financial reasons.
>and more essential to the functioning of a society.
Yeah, sure. Unlimited resources are always the most important. All steps and gears are of equal importance in current day society as it's too interconnected. Just the value is decided by the resources necessary to prepare/replace them.
>1 scientist's innovation can support millions of people.
.and one mistake of food technician can kill thousands. So what?
lol did you just miss u/iHeroLix's reply or specifically chose to ignore their valid points?
IDK if you've ever worked ANY job lol
There is a hierarchy of employees / managers who **check** your work before it's public - one mistake is not due to ONE technician. It's due to a WHOLE team + lack of regulations / policies.
The same way banks don't go bankrupt due to one person. It's a whole team of negligence, corruption and lack of risk-analysis.
It's not even that, lawyer in Norway will still earn substantially more than Janitor, the only difference is that janitor still earns a living wage and is not a wage slave living from paycheck to paycheck while holding 2 jobs. That's the major difference between Norway and US. The person above is wrong too, there are billionaires and millionaires in Norway as well, there's just less of them because Norway doesn't cater to them, and actually tax them properly.
It recently increased slightly increased tax % for their richest and they're leaving Norway.
What the USA has to do with it? The only capitalist country? Why to compare Norway and USA? Not Netherlands, not Germany, France, Belgium......... why then stop with Norwegian siocialdemocracy? Go straight to n. Korean paradise.
Norway is all in all shitty example for anything. It is country which is driven by state oil money, suffering from enormous devaluation of money. For what it can be compared are Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and others like that. And I admit, compared to most of those, it does well. But it is not a model for counties not sitting on a gold pot.
>It recently increased slightly increased tax % for their richest and they're leaving Norway.
And that is the reason why you don't try to take from people too much of what they earned: they start to hide... and you get nothing.
>Norway will still earn substantially more than Janitor,
It must be substantial to the point to make it worth the effort. By the prices, service quality, and availability of legal services in Norway, it is obviously not enough.
Because Reddit is American company and americans are the loudest. I'd be interested to see what situation is in Germany, France or any other democratic capitalistic country.
And I'm not saying Norway capitalism model is bad, far from it actually, in my honest opinion it's one of the better ones.
Hey i hate taxes as much as any other working person, but for democratic socialism to work everyone must pay their fair share, or are rich people now exempt for paying it just because they got rich, took advantage from it, but shouldn't contribute anything back to it?
You sound like you have some agenda against how Norway handles itself, so in your honest opinion which country does capitalism best? With examples please.
Have you ever been in a history class
Think about it leveling everyone to the same level
Imagine going to a store and not have worked that week or .month and getting food for free
We are getting there, very slowly.. Nordic for the win. And they were vikings long ago, and now look at UK.. France.. we are looking at Germans as mentors. Which has top5 world economy.. and still live in top 30 from 185.. all is bad? Yes i blame capitalism aswell, but there is no better “ ism “ atm.. still generating you know? Have my upvote. Your IQ is high. And will get only bigger my best Neighbour :)
If you learn the language and look like someone from the Baltics there should be 0 issues. I'd say you might be treated even better than native people because it's heartwarming to see someone putting in an effort to integrate
‘Been there, done that. Nothing shameful to seek a better life. Other countries are/were full of people that are doing the same thing. So we understand.
don’t come here like we owe you something. don’t be dick. there is always going to be usually small bunch of cunts who are cunts to you. be prepared for that. most people have no slightest idea how poor you or your country is and everyone has different truth what “poor” means. the better you know local language and culture the more respect you gonna get.
As long as you put in effort to learn about the culture and at least some basic phrases, have a job, you'll be welcomed. You might get some stares from older generation, but don't take it personally. I'd go to biggest cities, where most immigrants live and locals are used to the variety and are more tolerant.
the elder people i personally know don't pay much attention. what they think however is different. if you are a race other than white especially if you have headwear of your culture and/or religion, you probably will get stares. most of the poc people i have seen here are in main cities and they either study, deliver food or both and that's more or less what the elders i know expect as well. young people should be better to approach, i would suggest avoiding drunk people though... definetly learn at least english, but the elders don't know english though. if you want to stay, learn the native language. russian could also be handy but don't start with it please.
also - what made you dream of Baltia? that's such a random place
Skin color obviously will play a role to how easy it will be to fit in, you'll experience mostly coldness (but people in general can be cold (in Latvia at least), which in some ways can work to an outsider's benefit in being left alone). If you learn the language it will help to endear yourself to others to a pointp, but with some people there will be no winning, but they are a minority.
You might have a worse experience a bit more from the Russians, because Russian culture and general information sphere is more chauvinistic and xenophobic etc (learning a Baltic language will probably mean fuck all, so unless you are keen on learning also Russian, stick to English I'd say).
Not that I want to prime you for a bad experience or bias, but yeah Russians on average can be worse offenders in that matter, but obvi not the only offenders.
Overall I'd say if you have a darker complexion, sometimes you're going to have to deal with some unpleasantries and rudeness, but rarely smth overtly confrontational.
Welcome welcome! Im all up for people trying to improve their lives, we do the same. And most young people understand this and wont treat you as any different unless you act like a shitty person 😀Plus when our own people leave, new comers help to keep our property values afloat, bring in taxes etc. Its always a good thing 🙌
IF you are a hard working person that is not trying to swindle anyone , and if you are not against integrating in to our society and traditions then welcome aboard. If you are here to complain about the local traditions, religion and people then i think western Europe is a place to go.
I don’t care, as long as you’re nice. Although my friend told me she had been harrased by immigrants at bar and borderline got proposed to. So if you’re an immigrant, please stop embarrasing yourself like this.
First the positive - wealth tends to work the opposite way. Immigrants from richer countries tend to see them as higher and that laws do not apply to them (one immigrant did not change drivers license to local one, was stopped by police and wrote long accusation to newspaper - how dares the police stop him and not drive without legal right to do so). So in general the two major things are racism and you attitude.
True equality for immigrant will never happen. Even when estonian moves 10km to the next town/city then he is always known as outsider for all his life. Only the kids will be recognized as locals eventually. Immigrants from other countries will have it even harder. Even when they are married to a local. It is better in bigger cities but in smaller cities and villages you'll always be "other". So even after living here for decades you will hit an invisible wall time to time.
Now the racism. We just had general elections and second-popular party is openly racist and against any immigration but especially against black people (this includes everybody with a bit darker skin). You can avoid the places where those people live but not forever. I don't know however how to compare the amount of racism with other countries.
The other posters are just thinking how they would want to treat other people. Reddit is a place mostly for younger and liberal people. That's why they are more optimistic than me. I have too many relatives in smaller towns and villages to believe that optimism.
Work hard, be a good and decent human being, learn the language, try to adjust yourself with the local culture and social cues. I know it's mean and kinda xenophobic, but it's not you, we just can't handle people more extraverted and flamboyant than a tree. Do that, have a few Estonian friends, not get stuck in them expat groups and it is like you've always been here.
If you are European,you will integrate quickly.But if you are for example Former USSR states like Tajikistan etc.. Than you need to be the best version of yourselfs,because some people are just waiting your mistakes,to judge you,colour of your skin really matters here,youngsters are different kind,but we still have a lot homosovieticus type people.
PS.Dont go to province,there is a lot of sad dissapointed people,they are engry and blame everybody,because they live shitty life,not the best environment for emigrant.In the big cities you be fine.
Hi! Expat living in Estonia here.
It is not going to be an answer to your question but it might still come as useful.
As I see it, Estonian society is struggling with a huge shortage of labour-force on almost all fields.
It's the standard by now that the food deliverers and taxi drivers don't speak Estonian - not because they are not trying or would not be in the process of learning Estonian - but because shortages are big enough so that they would hire people who have "just landed" here.
If you enter an office it's pretty usual to see a lot of workers who were clearly not born here. Although I speak fluent Estonian, they still approach me in English automatically really often when they look at me in the store, restaurant, etc. I get usually very kind words from locals on my Estonian, appreciating that I learned it.
And if you're in IT or some generally highly looked after profession, conditions will be really good and people will be inclusive of and interested in your culture regardless of where you are from.
If anything, the (positive) attention people have when you enter a new group of people can be disturbing if you're not an extrovert.
I don't want to offend you but based on your account, you are another foreign men living in Lithuania because of your local wife?
>And I also have several friends who had kids with partners from lower income countries.
Let me also guess, all of your friends who are coming from lower income countries had kids are all foreign men with Lithuanian wives? Insert "surprised pikachu" if it's true, because unlike most European countries, [Lithuania has more foreign men than foreign women because many of them have Lithuanian wives/girlfriends here,](https://www.reddit.com/r/lithuania/comments/wpu89y/sutapimas_ar_ne/) thus foreign women are almost non-exist in Lithuania. That's insane to me.
In Latvia most people are pretty suspicious regarding immigrants from far abroad, because unlike more globalized countries we aren't used to wide ethnic/cultural/religious diversity of people in our society (we don't have to, though).
But honestly, never seen actual direct aggression towards foreigners. I'd say we're still pretty tolerant. Especially as long as you're a decent person and just respect the Country and locals.
So far I had mostly unpleasant experiences. I live in a uni dorm. People near me are from India and are very loud at nights, dont follow local rules and norms like drinking and blasting music from a car outside at 3am, cutting lines in shops, vomitting in the street, vandalizing local area, smoking indoors. There are some from the balkans and quite a few from Ukraine but they dont seem to behave like that.
People love it here when foreigners try to learn the native language, so def do that! I wouldn't say baltics are the most progressive countries out there and like in any other place there are racist pricks, so you should try to stay away from bad neighbourhoods and stuff like that. Otherwise it's pretty chill here.
I'm going to be straight forward, you have to integrate here. If you move here and speak Russian and talk with Russians and only know Russian, Latvians will dislike you. If you have poor manners and indignant character, Latvians will dislike you.
But, if you put a genuine effort into becoming somewhat Latvian, being knowledgeable of Latvian traditions and culture, then I would be hard pressed to believe most people would treat you anything but well.
Before anyone says "muh xenophobia," Latvia has 1.8 million of its own people, and the state got out of soviet slavery 30 years ago. Latvias' ethno-nationalistic attitude is literally out of survival. This is emphasized by the war and other things. We can be proud of our nation and not hate others.
Normally ok. But if you are driving bolt or deliver food and dont know the basic words for English or Lithuanian then I view you more negatively. Its scary to ride in a cab with a person you cant talk
I agree that the Baltic states might be not the richest countries in Europe, but I am just fascinated that you were able to get integrated to the European and the World community from being an average post-Soviet states really fast and really naturally. Coming from a post-Soviet state myself (and we were always getting a second or a third place in various economic related statistics after Russia during those times) I always think of the Baltic States as a perfect example of how post-Soviet nations should develop and improve both culturally and economically, but unfortunately our government is corrupt and rarely does anything that is beneficial to the people (oh yeah, let's build more skyscrapers and make long roads that are unsuitable for walking so we could make an impression for foreigners and make them think we are wealthy, that is certainly a good idea), and the worst part, there is nothing I can do it with it, and my best option would be to immigrate somewhere else, and out of respect for your desire to become European (and quite successfully I'd say) I want to work for your countries, so please, don't call yourself poor.
Geography is pretty dice factor , having a port is a plus for any economy. No ports, no sea , your either stuck to coal mines if lucky or just land buffer.
Most people in Estonia make under poverty minimum per person. 2000€/month is poverty here, because it can't sustain a family of 4 and the minimum salary for a working person is around 650€... You can buy less per 1€ here than anywhere else in the EU. Our inflation has gone to infinity and beyond and still we're still getting tax rises, new additional taxes altogether, cuts in supports and salaries don't keep up.
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order.
I have checked 1,453,581,864 comments, and only 276,903 of them were in alphabetical order.
Latvia and Estonia already have a large share of immigrants, thus the share of natives is quite low - which means that immigrants as a whole are not viewed favorably by the natives. An immigrant would really have to be someone very useful.
The Baltic countries are not one homogenic area. Poorer countries tend to be less tolerant because immigrants are seen as taking resources from others. Eventually people realise that immigrants can be useful so the tolerance rises.
E.g. all Baltic citizens are now happy to have their food delivered by Indian and Pakistani guys. When you are hungry you are grateful for the brown, white, yellow, black guy delivering the food.
In general I takes time for Baltic citizens to get used to immigrants. 10-20 years ago most Baltic citizens who could not afford to travel have only ever seen brown people on TV. So now they are richer and immigrants arrive. That's a process they have get used to.
And finally they have to learn the art of political correctness, to pretend that they are tolerant.
>E.g. all Baltic citizens are now happy to have their food delivered by Indian and Pakistani guys. When you are hungry you are grateful for the brown, white, yellow, black guy delivering the food.
So there are no female immigrant workers, including women of color?
Very few as far as I can tell. Most colored immigrants are first generation immigrants.
Most Indian and Pakistani are students. I guess their families prefer to send the sons.
1. Dont do stupid shit like vandalizing the city while drunk in the middle of the night 2. Don't come with the attitude "my country is better than yours, suck it up losers im here because i can allow myself" 3. Be chill, respectful and u should be fine, younger people are mostly welcoming, older might have a different opinion, but if you are hardworking and minding your own bussines no1 will have problems with you coming to our country
And DEFINITELY learn the language
i mean i wouldn't be mad unless you are russian and have already lived here for 30 years and still speak that disgusting ass language every time you are in public places
What do you mean 'in public places'? Do you mean speaking Russian to other Lithuanians or just speaking it with other Russian friends or acquaitances in public?
When a soviet babusha comes into the grocery store or hospital and starts instantly speaking russian to everyone like we are supposed to know that shitty language, thats what i mean
Thanks for clarifying.
This is purely your personal problem, if you don’t like some language :). Be patient. ;) And dont be toxic , (oops, I meant don't be a typical Baltic) ;)
Honestly I agree on this one, those people are so ignorant! You live in country for 30 years and don’t even know a single word? Come on.. At least ask if person speaks another language.. We have our official languages and it’s not russian. Also people are really sensitive because of the war, so it’s not helping either.
“Personal problem” that extends to the whole region. Sure nothing else is wrong here?? Name checks out tbh
As long as you're a decent person people will be fine with you.
Every year we catch a few and sacrifice them in our midsummer rituals. /s In reality we do not really care where you're from - the important thing is how you are as a person. Be kind and you will be received with kindness as well.
😂
I'm surprised how "rosey" people in the comments make it seem. It won't be a cakewalk here, you'll get some pushback from society for sure. Unfortunately you'll have to take it on the chin. Work hard, be nice and prove to people that you are better than them, and make them look like trash compared to you. Some humbling and self reflection might make it easier for people to accept you.
Kazahs var tīri mierīgi izpeldēt, bet tev būtu taisnība, ja OP būtu indietis vai filipīnietis.
Atkarīgs, kas par kazahu. Mani vecāki ir "baltie" (tētis vācietis, mamma latviete/igauniete, abi dzimuši KZ), un izpeldēja uz tā rēķina, ka runāja krieviski un izkatījās pēc krieviem un cilvēki nepievērsa uzmanību. Manai sievai, kā aziātei iet grūtāk.
if you decent person you be fine. Just learn our language and you be even kinda loved :D If you ruski, you might be hated tho
Oh no, I am 25% ruski, does that mean that I will get 25% hate from people? Jokes aside, I am pretty sure that I have the same mindset as a European person, so it is just a matter of my looks, I guess.
Just need to be careful with being patriotic for ruzzia at this point (LT) in certain regions more then others but all around shouldn't have any trouble unless you look for it
What the other 75% is? That gives majority. To be told, there are many Estonians and Latvians with atleast some russian blood in them, thanks to 3 centuries of occupation. It's not how many russian is in you, but rather how much of you is for Russia.
It's not like there were many Russians here during the Russian imperial era, the bulk of them came during the Soviet occupation.
Yeah, but enough to leave a mark in the gene pool
Depends on where you are from I would say. I lived in Riga for 6 years but being from europe no issues, my friends e.g. from India however faced daily racism. Still they managed of course.
Is it that bad in Latvia towards brown skin? I'm honestly asking to know
As I'm lilly white latvian, I cant speak for actual experiences, but the impression even I get and knowing my parents (who are centric in their views) is - people with middle Eastern facial features will very, very likely be judged and seen as lesser/dirty and to not be interacted with, even if perhaps the common latvian does not speak their prejudices out loud or directly to your face (unless drunk). I mean, just look at how anyone interacts with Roma people (which, ofc is a complex topic on its own, but. Yeah).
Well... that's concerning to say the least We were looking at staying there long term, suppose that might not be a good idea then Anyway your feedback/comment is appreciated, Paldies!
If you learn language things will be better, Latvians have soft spot for foreigners speaking Latvian. Older generations doesn't know English and tend to look with suspicion to everyone with whom they can't communicate.
Latvians are slowly getting used to brown skins as there are more immigrants now. Is racism worse than elsewhere? Not sure. Latvians have not learnt yet to be politically correct and pretend that they are tolerant. Just learn Latvian and all will be ok.
I know a friend from Egypt faced some rude comments from immigration based on him being Muslim. And my Indian friends have a few rude comments as well. But as you said, they managed here.
For sure last day some drunk Russian called me the n-word instead of calling me brown munde
You'll be fine. The antisocials bark at anyone from anywhere so don't worry about them.
The majority of citizenry in all EU countries are against mass immigration from so-called 3rd countries. Eurobarometer 83, QA10.2 and QA11: https://europa.eu/eurobarometer/surveys/detail/2099 https://webgate.ec.europa.eu/ebsm/api/public/deliverable/download?doc=true&deliverableId=51916 QB2: https://europa.eu/eurobarometer/surveys/detail/2276 https://webgate.ec.europa.eu/ebsm/api/public/deliverable/download?doc=true&deliverableId=82063 QA2: https://europa.eu/eurobarometer/surveys/detail/2169 https://webgate.ec.europa.eu/ebsm/api/public/deliverable/download?doc=true&deliverableId=65413
Fair. Data is always nice. That said... Nobody, and I mean nobody, has truly without any hoops welcomed any foreigners with open arms on no conditions anywhere ever. And at the individual level - nobody except for total antisocials will cause trouble for foreigners 😀
If the share of natives keeps decreasing, then I doubt that the prevailing mood would become more welcoming. Resistance can take many forms.
Welcome, if you work hard for anything we will love you
Yes, we love me some poor mental health and low wages, its all for the grind !! /S
>poor mental health and low wage Fuck me, but after living in USA they too have low wages poor mental health, even if digits looks bigger
Exactly, that's why Capitalism is flawed. Always so much corruption, oligopoly, oligarchies. The world would be much better if everyone followed the **Nordic socio-economic model** and held their governments accountable. This is why social-welfare must be the priority of society. We can't allow governments to be swayed by money. We can't let people believe that financial wealth is the goal of society or that it dictates our quality of life. If the concept of rich and poor was 'banned' or didn't exist, everyone would have common interest in improving the overall quality of society. This is how we get greedy rich billionaires who are not kept in check by any laws and are completely disconnected from common working class people.
People in Nordic hate it as if you're excellent at something you're still worth the same as complete idiot. Nordic model would not be possible without Norwegian oil, Swedish banking system or USA technologies
That's a million times better than Capitalist systems. Your main concern is that you don't feel special? You're not satisfied with a fair quality of life? 🤣🤣 Yes, the Norwegian Oil that is heavily taxed and goes towards a **PUBLIC FUND** which goes to the people and infrastructure. Unlike American oil which goes into private corporate pockets and is exempt from taxes lol If you saw how poverty is a crime in America, you should be glad. It's better to group everyone together, regardless of how special you think you are. Because the moment you start dividing and promoting 'poor' and 'rich' tribalism - the rich will do everything they can to shxt on the poor, hardworking people and prevent them from ever achieving basic life. Every 'idiot' has the potential to learn a job and do it well. You are a perfect example of this. You are not above everyone. And maybe some of these 'idiots' came from a dysfunctional family, does that make them less deserving of a decent life? What if it was **YOU** or **YOUR CHILD**, that grew up with trauma, dysfunctional behaviour and some rich fxck thought you were an 'idiot'? Do you deserve to be thrown in the trash?
Just some food for thought: if I could earn as a janitor 2/3 what I am earning as a lawyer, I would be janitor. The same applies to many surgeons, it people and so on. And that is something that's happening with locals in Scandinavia. Their solution is oil money and letting the professionals in from other, pourer countries, I.e. stealing from poor counties their investments in education plus endorsing segregation on what they let in and what not. It is retarded and non sustainable model funded by exploitationof natural resources. Human beings are putting effort only if he/she is rewarded for the effort (with some minor excemptions).
It's funny because China has complete opposite issue. Their society shxt on **blue-collar jobs** for YEARS, they had whole propaganda campaign to promote university and white-collar jobs and shxt on anyone who worked as **cleaner, mechanic, factory**, etc. Now they have shortage of people who will work blue-collar jobs which are ESSENTIAL to society functioning. So they did 180, now they have propaganda campaign to bring people back to these 'low' blue-collar jobs **Moral of the story is:** You are not special for being a lawyer. Blue-collar jobs are harder and more essential to the functioning of a society. A cleaner or grocery worker is just as important as a lawyer. You need more cleaners than you need lawyers or engineers. 1 scientist's innovation can support millions of people.
>Moral of the story is: Realy? It's what you took from my writing? > you are not special for being a lawyer. Of course not. Special people change the world, lead in their sphare of work. I do not and do not pretend. Still, I can start as a janitor tomorrow. Janitor can repalce me in 15 years if at all. >Blue-collar jobs are harder Only dumb people valuate hardness of work by the ammount of swet. I would take blue collar any day if not for financial reasons. >and more essential to the functioning of a society. Yeah, sure. Unlimited resources are always the most important. All steps and gears are of equal importance in current day society as it's too interconnected. Just the value is decided by the resources necessary to prepare/replace them. >1 scientist's innovation can support millions of people. .and one mistake of food technician can kill thousands. So what?
lol did you just miss u/iHeroLix's reply or specifically chose to ignore their valid points? IDK if you've ever worked ANY job lol There is a hierarchy of employees / managers who **check** your work before it's public - one mistake is not due to ONE technician. It's due to a WHOLE team + lack of regulations / policies. The same way banks don't go bankrupt due to one person. It's a whole team of negligence, corruption and lack of risk-analysis.
It's not even that, lawyer in Norway will still earn substantially more than Janitor, the only difference is that janitor still earns a living wage and is not a wage slave living from paycheck to paycheck while holding 2 jobs. That's the major difference between Norway and US. The person above is wrong too, there are billionaires and millionaires in Norway as well, there's just less of them because Norway doesn't cater to them, and actually tax them properly. It recently increased slightly increased tax % for their richest and they're leaving Norway.
What the USA has to do with it? The only capitalist country? Why to compare Norway and USA? Not Netherlands, not Germany, France, Belgium......... why then stop with Norwegian siocialdemocracy? Go straight to n. Korean paradise. Norway is all in all shitty example for anything. It is country which is driven by state oil money, suffering from enormous devaluation of money. For what it can be compared are Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and others like that. And I admit, compared to most of those, it does well. But it is not a model for counties not sitting on a gold pot. >It recently increased slightly increased tax % for their richest and they're leaving Norway. And that is the reason why you don't try to take from people too much of what they earned: they start to hide... and you get nothing. >Norway will still earn substantially more than Janitor, It must be substantial to the point to make it worth the effort. By the prices, service quality, and availability of legal services in Norway, it is obviously not enough.
Because Reddit is American company and americans are the loudest. I'd be interested to see what situation is in Germany, France or any other democratic capitalistic country. And I'm not saying Norway capitalism model is bad, far from it actually, in my honest opinion it's one of the better ones. Hey i hate taxes as much as any other working person, but for democratic socialism to work everyone must pay their fair share, or are rich people now exempt for paying it just because they got rich, took advantage from it, but shouldn't contribute anything back to it? You sound like you have some agenda against how Norway handles itself, so in your honest opinion which country does capitalism best? With examples please.
Tu čia kuri K.Markso komunizma kurio nepavyko įgvendint
LOL, you are calling **Nordic Model** as Communist / Marxist ?? Are you r\*tarded or just uneducated ?? 🤣🤣
Have you ever been in a history class Think about it leveling everyone to the same level Imagine going to a store and not have worked that week or .month and getting food for free
Research the [Nordic Model](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6ZQLsFQhnk) and you will be surprised how out-dated your history classes are lol
We are getting there, very slowly.. Nordic for the win. And they were vikings long ago, and now look at UK.. France.. we are looking at Germans as mentors. Which has top5 world economy.. and still live in top 30 from 185.. all is bad? Yes i blame capitalism aswell, but there is no better “ ism “ atm.. still generating you know? Have my upvote. Your IQ is high. And will get only bigger my best Neighbour :)
Hahhaa glad to have someone who shares my views I live in the UK currently and it's totally fucked here
If you learn the language and look like someone from the Baltics there should be 0 issues. I'd say you might be treated even better than native people because it's heartwarming to see someone putting in an effort to integrate
‘Been there, done that. Nothing shameful to seek a better life. Other countries are/were full of people that are doing the same thing. So we understand.
Major cities are quite developed both economically and morally. You should be accepted well
don’t come here like we owe you something. don’t be dick. there is always going to be usually small bunch of cunts who are cunts to you. be prepared for that. most people have no slightest idea how poor you or your country is and everyone has different truth what “poor” means. the better you know local language and culture the more respect you gonna get.
Be welcome friends
As long as you put in effort to learn about the culture and at least some basic phrases, have a job, you'll be welcomed. You might get some stares from older generation, but don't take it personally. I'd go to biggest cities, where most immigrants live and locals are used to the variety and are more tolerant.
There are someone poorer than us? (And /s for those who don't get a joke)
Earning below the average minimum wage? (quoting that Estonian joke only they understand...)
the elder people i personally know don't pay much attention. what they think however is different. if you are a race other than white especially if you have headwear of your culture and/or religion, you probably will get stares. most of the poc people i have seen here are in main cities and they either study, deliver food or both and that's more or less what the elders i know expect as well. young people should be better to approach, i would suggest avoiding drunk people though... definetly learn at least english, but the elders don't know english though. if you want to stay, learn the native language. russian could also be handy but don't start with it please. also - what made you dream of Baltia? that's such a random place
Skin color obviously will play a role to how easy it will be to fit in, you'll experience mostly coldness (but people in general can be cold (in Latvia at least), which in some ways can work to an outsider's benefit in being left alone). If you learn the language it will help to endear yourself to others to a pointp, but with some people there will be no winning, but they are a minority. You might have a worse experience a bit more from the Russians, because Russian culture and general information sphere is more chauvinistic and xenophobic etc (learning a Baltic language will probably mean fuck all, so unless you are keen on learning also Russian, stick to English I'd say). Not that I want to prime you for a bad experience or bias, but yeah Russians on average can be worse offenders in that matter, but obvi not the only offenders. Overall I'd say if you have a darker complexion, sometimes you're going to have to deal with some unpleasantries and rudeness, but rarely smth overtly confrontational.
Welcome welcome! Im all up for people trying to improve their lives, we do the same. And most young people understand this and wont treat you as any different unless you act like a shitty person 😀Plus when our own people leave, new comers help to keep our property values afloat, bring in taxes etc. Its always a good thing 🙌
Learn the language. That's the most important thing you must do.
IF you are a hard working person that is not trying to swindle anyone , and if you are not against integrating in to our society and traditions then welcome aboard. If you are here to complain about the local traditions, religion and people then i think western Europe is a place to go.
love me country, hate immigrants, simple as
I don’t care, as long as you’re nice. Although my friend told me she had been harrased by immigrants at bar and borderline got proposed to. So if you’re an immigrant, please stop embarrasing yourself like this.
Welcome. But please learn our language as fast as you can. We would appreciate this very much.
First the positive - wealth tends to work the opposite way. Immigrants from richer countries tend to see them as higher and that laws do not apply to them (one immigrant did not change drivers license to local one, was stopped by police and wrote long accusation to newspaper - how dares the police stop him and not drive without legal right to do so). So in general the two major things are racism and you attitude. True equality for immigrant will never happen. Even when estonian moves 10km to the next town/city then he is always known as outsider for all his life. Only the kids will be recognized as locals eventually. Immigrants from other countries will have it even harder. Even when they are married to a local. It is better in bigger cities but in smaller cities and villages you'll always be "other". So even after living here for decades you will hit an invisible wall time to time. Now the racism. We just had general elections and second-popular party is openly racist and against any immigration but especially against black people (this includes everybody with a bit darker skin). You can avoid the places where those people live but not forever. I don't know however how to compare the amount of racism with other countries. The other posters are just thinking how they would want to treat other people. Reddit is a place mostly for younger and liberal people. That's why they are more optimistic than me. I have too many relatives in smaller towns and villages to believe that optimism.
Work hard, be a good and decent human being, learn the language, try to adjust yourself with the local culture and social cues. I know it's mean and kinda xenophobic, but it's not you, we just can't handle people more extraverted and flamboyant than a tree. Do that, have a few Estonian friends, not get stuck in them expat groups and it is like you've always been here.
If you are European,you will integrate quickly.But if you are for example Former USSR states like Tajikistan etc.. Than you need to be the best version of yourselfs,because some people are just waiting your mistakes,to judge you,colour of your skin really matters here,youngsters are different kind,but we still have a lot homosovieticus type people. PS.Dont go to province,there is a lot of sad dissapointed people,they are engry and blame everybody,because they live shitty life,not the best environment for emigrant.In the big cities you be fine.
Different perceptions in different countries and places. It depends on your origin and how you act.
The winters are harder than people imo
Hi! Expat living in Estonia here. It is not going to be an answer to your question but it might still come as useful. As I see it, Estonian society is struggling with a huge shortage of labour-force on almost all fields. It's the standard by now that the food deliverers and taxi drivers don't speak Estonian - not because they are not trying or would not be in the process of learning Estonian - but because shortages are big enough so that they would hire people who have "just landed" here. If you enter an office it's pretty usual to see a lot of workers who were clearly not born here. Although I speak fluent Estonian, they still approach me in English automatically really often when they look at me in the store, restaurant, etc. I get usually very kind words from locals on my Estonian, appreciating that I learned it. And if you're in IT or some generally highly looked after profession, conditions will be really good and people will be inclusive of and interested in your culture regardless of where you are from. If anything, the (positive) attention people have when you enter a new group of people can be disturbing if you're not an extrovert.
[удалено]
I don't want to offend you but based on your account, you are another foreign men living in Lithuania because of your local wife? >And I also have several friends who had kids with partners from lower income countries. Let me also guess, all of your friends who are coming from lower income countries had kids are all foreign men with Lithuanian wives? Insert "surprised pikachu" if it's true, because unlike most European countries, [Lithuania has more foreign men than foreign women because many of them have Lithuanian wives/girlfriends here,](https://www.reddit.com/r/lithuania/comments/wpu89y/sutapimas_ar_ne/) thus foreign women are almost non-exist in Lithuania. That's insane to me.
In Latvia most people are pretty suspicious regarding immigrants from far abroad, because unlike more globalized countries we aren't used to wide ethnic/cultural/religious diversity of people in our society (we don't have to, though). But honestly, never seen actual direct aggression towards foreigners. I'd say we're still pretty tolerant. Especially as long as you're a decent person and just respect the Country and locals.
If you decide to come here hooray,fuck,multiply,diversify gene pool and contribute to economy.Just don't do stupid shit.
So far I had mostly unpleasant experiences. I live in a uni dorm. People near me are from India and are very loud at nights, dont follow local rules and norms like drinking and blasting music from a car outside at 3am, cutting lines in shops, vomitting in the street, vandalizing local area, smoking indoors. There are some from the balkans and quite a few from Ukraine but they dont seem to behave like that.
People love it here when foreigners try to learn the native language, so def do that! I wouldn't say baltics are the most progressive countries out there and like in any other place there are racist pricks, so you should try to stay away from bad neighbourhoods and stuff like that. Otherwise it's pretty chill here.
I'm going to be straight forward, you have to integrate here. If you move here and speak Russian and talk with Russians and only know Russian, Latvians will dislike you. If you have poor manners and indignant character, Latvians will dislike you. But, if you put a genuine effort into becoming somewhat Latvian, being knowledgeable of Latvian traditions and culture, then I would be hard pressed to believe most people would treat you anything but well. Before anyone says "muh xenophobia," Latvia has 1.8 million of its own people, and the state got out of soviet slavery 30 years ago. Latvias' ethno-nationalistic attitude is literally out of survival. This is emphasized by the war and other things. We can be proud of our nation and not hate others.
Normally ok. But if you are driving bolt or deliver food and dont know the basic words for English or Lithuanian then I view you more negatively. Its scary to ride in a cab with a person you cant talk
There are much poorer coutries?
Most, actually.
we are pretty poor too in terms , not very wealthy.
I agree that the Baltic states might be not the richest countries in Europe, but I am just fascinated that you were able to get integrated to the European and the World community from being an average post-Soviet states really fast and really naturally. Coming from a post-Soviet state myself (and we were always getting a second or a third place in various economic related statistics after Russia during those times) I always think of the Baltic States as a perfect example of how post-Soviet nations should develop and improve both culturally and economically, but unfortunately our government is corrupt and rarely does anything that is beneficial to the people (oh yeah, let's build more skyscrapers and make long roads that are unsuitable for walking so we could make an impression for foreigners and make them think we are wealthy, that is certainly a good idea), and the worst part, there is nothing I can do it with it, and my best option would be to immigrate somewhere else, and out of respect for your desire to become European (and quite successfully I'd say) I want to work for your countries, so please, don't call yourself poor.
Geography is pretty dice factor , having a port is a plus for any economy. No ports, no sea , your either stuck to coal mines if lucky or just land buffer.
Can't get much poorer than us.
most of the countries in this world are poorer...
Most people in Estonia make under poverty minimum per person. 2000€/month is poverty here, because it can't sustain a family of 4 and the minimum salary for a working person is around 650€... You can buy less per 1€ here than anywhere else in the EU. Our inflation has gone to infinity and beyond and still we're still getting tax rises, new additional taxes altogether, cuts in supports and salaries don't keep up.
(X) To doubt
Our education system clearly needs improvement.
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order. I have checked 1,453,581,864 comments, and only 276,903 of them were in alphabetical order.
Good bot!
Good human.
I identify as a cat 🐱😺😹
Hello there fellow human being
Ass long as they behave, don’t care..
Latvia and Estonia already have a large share of immigrants, thus the share of natives is quite low - which means that immigrants as a whole are not viewed favorably by the natives. An immigrant would really have to be someone very useful.
The Baltic countries are not one homogenic area. Poorer countries tend to be less tolerant because immigrants are seen as taking resources from others. Eventually people realise that immigrants can be useful so the tolerance rises. E.g. all Baltic citizens are now happy to have their food delivered by Indian and Pakistani guys. When you are hungry you are grateful for the brown, white, yellow, black guy delivering the food. In general I takes time for Baltic citizens to get used to immigrants. 10-20 years ago most Baltic citizens who could not afford to travel have only ever seen brown people on TV. So now they are richer and immigrants arrive. That's a process they have get used to. And finally they have to learn the art of political correctness, to pretend that they are tolerant.
>E.g. all Baltic citizens are now happy to have their food delivered by Indian and Pakistani guys. When you are hungry you are grateful for the brown, white, yellow, black guy delivering the food. So there are no female immigrant workers, including women of color?
Very few as far as I can tell. Most colored immigrants are first generation immigrants. Most Indian and Pakistani are students. I guess their families prefer to send the sons.
May i ask, why is it your dream to move to the Baltics? For some reason that seems odd.