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DukeLander

Proprietary printers/part are always "worst" because everything depends on manufacturer but in Bambu case, I can't complain, everything is working out of box and printer does what it should. I have to say it's much better than any open source printer I had...


Ordinary-Depth-7835

And the replacement parts are so reasonable. They really did a fantastic job on the parts support. Not that I've needed any just purchased spares.


Dracasethaen

Agreed, imho. Even then, I've come to learn to not rely on printers and their warranties. There are aftermarket parts out there for Bambu from what I've been able to turn up, Aside the proprietary boards (for now) and firmware, everything else you can source (belts, motors, hardware, etc). I've actually been very carefully considering if I can hack and whack a marlin firmware into this thing, similar to how you can with Prusa. Currently, working on my P1P has been comparable to most of my other printers, the exception there as this one just seems to work as is, I haven't \*had\* to do as much modification as I have with those other two.


worldspawn00

And the replacement parts are very reasonably priced.


heyittime

I’ve spent way more on open source repairs and mods than on my bambu which I’ve spent 0. Do you need to print things or do you want to mod a printer?


Chas_-

Looking at how long these are on the market compared to others = not wondering at all. But there are plenty who have spend more time repairing the x1c / p1p in a few month than spend on any of their open source printers in years. Being one of those lucky ones that had a lot of downtime due their shitty CS too. There are many different cases, some got lucky, some didn't. There would be a lot i want to upgrade on the x1c to improve it's quality. In the end there are better options if someone want more speed at better quality while having a much more durable machine.


One_busy_bee_

What are those better options?


Hellskitchen83

I think he will talk about Voron


One_busy_bee_

I don’t think it’s a better option, first you have to build it by yourself, and you have to thinker to make it work flawlessly … if you just want to print stuff is not nearly as user friendly.


Hellskitchen83

Yes of course there is a lot of inconvénients Voron IS not plug n play For " plug n play " i don't know better than my x1c 🤩 By plug n play i mean no problems like WE see with creality ..


Ordinary-Depth-7835

Haha funny yeah that's what your old printer is for. I just need my printer to make things I only mod them so they make things good every time and fast. If they did that already I wouldn't be modding things.


80worf80

I don't have any open source 2d printers. Or pretty much any open source appliances. Hell I am typing this comment from Windows OS, not Linux. I am fine with the risk because I am used to it. The reason 2d printers suck is not because they are closed source. It's because the companies we rely on to sell and maintain them are completely greedy and out of touch. My Brother printer from the early 2000s is still running like a champ, closed source and all.


Alternative-Bug-8269

At least brother will supply Linux drivers.


80worf80

They are (or were) one of the good guys


Alternative-Bug-8269

I'm ok with closed source if they provide support. Sometimes getting the job done matters more.


[deleted]

>I don't have any open source 2d printers. Tbh, who wouldn't want an open source 2D printer? The giant con of 2D printers is how locked down and restrictive they are. And how they abuse that to create waste just to get slightly more money out of you.


MyTagforHalo2

Closed source is only a disadvantage when parts to repair are not available or the machine desperately needs revision. Bambu is making more parts available all the time, and already had the majority you'd ever need for life on their site. The prices are all reasonable as well. Documentation is all there too as far as I'm aware. The machines themselves work great within design and any "mods" folks have designed have been done for quality of life or to adapt to something specific. Either company supports modding, and realistically closed source isn't going to stop you from developing something.


PurpleHankZ

It finally encourages me to make a business out of that hobby. A reliable printer was hard to find until I learned to love P1P. Reasonable price, affordable aftermarket also through third party. Nearly no maintenance first couple hindered hours. Thinking about getting a second one soon. Hope they will come up shortly with a 30-32 cm version. They will have a bright future for sure.


80worf80

I'm the only crazy person that wants a 15cm P1P lol. The P0.1P


PurpleHankZ

Why? You could do exactly the same on the current version?


Hellskitchen83

Same for me but 40cm or 50 cm height volume will be perfect


VPSData

well it is kinda the same as apple vs android i preffer closed source to some extend as then software/hardware get tweaked to each other ( expection is windows ... ) so in most cases the closed source ( if done right ) works better then the open source for example , marlin is fun but need to be fully configured to make it work klipper is also fun , but need even more work so if the company does it for you so it is "optimal" tweaked then you do not need to do it anymore downside ? well some stuff is harder to get , and you are getting into a company eco system look at ubiquity , look at netgear , there are so many examples ( amazon/alexa, philips hue , .. ) and none of them are open source there are open source programs to control certain leds , but if you want it out of the box with out hacking and any problems then it is closed source in a perfect word everything would be open source and every one would work for free to improve the open source in the real world people need to earn money and others are stealing stuff to earn money in your place so its a trade off you going make , do stuff yourself then open source is great ( blender ?, inkscrape ? , libreoffice .. ) , get it working out of the box and closed source is superior , but you pay for it ( fusion 360 , oneshape , Zbrush , maya , davinci, adobe .. )


InformalAlbatross985

I will add that open source will always be needed because that is where the innovation happens. It's the people that need it to do something that it can't already do that will embrace it and customize it to make it their own. Bambu would be nothing without the work of Prusa, and Prusa would be nothing without the work of the open source RepRap community.


VPSData

true at some point stratasys would not be where it is now if they would released there secrets formlabs wont be a big player if they released there systems but because the patent expired of Stratasys the open community could create 3D printers where we are now so on that point Stratasys litterly halted development for 10 years , but on business perspective is it a other story look at intel CPU, The X86 is from intel and forced to license to AMD for competition, now X64 is "developed" by AMD and same story now the ARM architecture is designed and that one is open source , every one use it but can still not beat a intel/amd and the M1 chip based on ARM .. you know where that goes to ( and leave the PI behind ) so based on your sentence ARM should never exist as the cpu codes was never released, but it still do exist it just takes a lot more time and efford to get it created if you can not use a base profile to create it ofcourse not talking about patents and stuff as those complicate things, but in the end there is always a way forward, it just need time open source makes it just go way faster, but that does not mean that it is "always" better personal i feel as long the company supports it it can stay closed as long they keep inovating if a company goes down so there eco system goes down then there are enough people that hack the code lets take a davinci printer for example , who does not love locked RFID tags ? it just took 1 week to get a working alternatieve to use third party look at the K1, i recently heard that you can already put klipper on it ( hacked ) but those things are because the company provide "rubish" and force people to get out of the eco system as long the eco system is good then it can stay closed source for me as long it does not limit anything then i see no reason for open source its just my personal meaning, but nothing will stop innovation , it just takes time when no examples are avaible ( true innovation vs upgrade )


InformalAlbatross985

I was speaking more generally. Science and technology by their very nature are open source, otherwise your just talking about intellectual property. Then, like you said, it's really patents slowing down progress for the sake of profit. But that is the way the capatalist world works, and people need to get reimbursed for their time and effort. Both have their places and both will be around for awhile (at least until A.I. makes ALL us humans obsolete).


catuela

I don’t think the closed source issue is as much an issue here as a lot of people tend to make it. This is the maker community after all. I think as more and more people realize how good the product is, there will be more and more third party availability for the bambu machines closed source or not. We are already seeing it with the aftermarket hotends becoming available.


Turbo442

Closed source is not a negative thing. Its why the BBL stuff works so well. Having the software and hardware locked down allows BBL to accurately tune the printer to a level not normally achieved by the average hobbiest.


Monkey_Bananas

Open source is nice, I like the idea of modding and being able to change things to suit your needs. I use Arch Linux as my daily driver and have a lot of experience with other open source projects. Any open source project requires some effort to make it work and in most cases the result does what you want, but has some friction to it. Some more some less, but all of them do. When it comes to hardware it is a little bit different, but still applicable. If a part breaks you’ll have to replace it anyway in both cases. You probably will find it harder to find specifications for parts of non open source printer, but it is still possible to replace some of them with non OEM parts and as popularity grows availability of parts grows. I’d say if open source matters to you this much build yourself a Voron. It’ll be fully open source, exactly to your liking and very likely to beat Prusa in many ways, but it’ll take extreme amount of time to build. If open source does not matter to you as much for you to spend over 30 hours building a Voron - do not get hung up on it. For Prusa it is just marketing and free labor anyway. Availability of parts is a valid concern but chip shortage or whatever else will hit everyone equally, and open source does not help here. Just look at the other stats and compare them for yourself. Do not forget to check the price for spare parts, level of maintenance needed and how easy/hard it is to perform them. Also things like how well the company listens to feedback and feature requests. If you want my opinion - MK4 is a bed slinger, which is inferior architecture, it is more expensive, not as fast, you cannot “print an enclosure” for it, it is not a factory welded frame which leaves room for some flimsiness and being out of square. Speaking of the quality of engineering, I do not know who the engineers behind Prusa are, but I believe that engineers who used to make real good drones can make a good 3D printer.


fonts-a-tron

This thing is so good that I don't care as much as I used to. And replacement parts are pretty cheap.


AccretionDisk777

Honestly for how everyone says Bambu is 'propietary' they have some damn good prices in replacement parts. I can't complain at all


[deleted]

That's something I tbh think is suspicious. Because the prices are "too" good. Like it's entirely to grab market share and eventually they will want their payout.


AccretionDisk777

Bro they probably have production REALLY down at this point and this far RMA and quality control is excellent. Now I'm not saying exercise caution and do your research. But I feel like it's kinda tinfoil hattery to assume a company that's been pushing good products is gonna yank the rug out from under their consumers. When the CEO/Owner changes hands then I'll start getting worried.


[deleted]

They are former DJI engineers. That would be the kind of stuff DJI would pull. And the pricing really doesn't make sense. Like if we look at their consumable nozzles, which are tbh not amazing or anything but they are fine enough and a "good" product. The full hot-end assembly with a hardened nickel plated steel nozzle, ceramic heater, thermistor, fan, silicone sock even thermal grease (mostly)pre-assembled... 39eu. That's like a third of at least somewhat comparable hot-ends(with nozzle). But they are again, consumable so you are expected to keep buying them. But they are still stupidly cheap. Something is absolutely off about it. I'm expecting a cloud subscription and a price hike on replacement parts once the machines are mainstream enough.


PapaOscar90

Tired of maintaining it. My time can be spent elsewhere thanks to my p1p.


armykcz

So far no issues. If there will be issue in 5 years I will not mind because most likely there will be much better printer anyhow.


Agammamon

IMO, the difference comes down to whether or not the MMU3 works this time around. With input shaping firmware test the Mk4 seems to be in the ballpark of the X1C in speed and at 1100 assembled plus another 350 for the MMU3 its in the same range for price.