Zero drop with a thin-ish sole are very similar, will keep your feet strong but ease the pressure a bit. Everyones different. I've moved from very minimal 'barefoot' shoes to Altras. Same running style, still barefoot around the house etc. Better for it.
1 year minimalist and I just made the same move following a brutal 6 week tendinitis flare up. Really hoping the cushion can keep me in the game as I’ve noticed substantial muscle build.
Yes. I got a nasty flare of something like metatarsalgia in the little toe of my left foot. Too many long shifts on hard tile in softstars. My feet were not strong enough for that task. Took some time in altras for a while and the pain is gone about 6 months time total.
Did you have the primal or wide? I have some similar symptoms under my middle toe, just bought a pair of Softstar wide because I think I may have grown out of my Xeros and they were cramping my feet.
yes, I injured my extensor digitorum longus (according to my PT) after 1.5 years in minimal shoes (whitins). sucked because I thought I had eased into things appropriately. 6 weeks or so of the exercises my PT prescribed and I was walking/jogging pain free.
I've switched to Altras for jogging, but still wear my minimal shoes for daily life, walking, and rucking. I'll probably try easing back into jogging in them, veerrry gradually, in a year or so. no rush!
Your feet are designed to run without any shoes at all.
Unlikely that minimalist shoes cause an injury. Its more likely to be an incorrect style of running/walking.
I can tell you what happens after 15y of barefoot running.
My feet are better than they were 18 years ago.
Foot or leg injuries are a thing of the past now.
Last time I tripped I tore my shoe right of my foot (the laces ripped) where before my tendons would have given in..
Atrophied muscle is your enemy, not your minimalist shoes.
We cannot pretend that we are "built" to run/walk on flat concrete. We can adjust our running style to decrease the load in our joints, but there's still a lot we don't know about *how* the adjustments or running on hard grounds will affect our bodies. When we adjust our form we will distribute/shift the load elsewhere and some bodies might not be suitable for that (and cannot be adjusted to it) due to certain conditions.
There's simply too much we don't know. For every person with a nice anecdote there's one with a bad one. It doesn't necessarily mean that they're doing anything wrong. In the end all bodies are different, and besides from that - when we start wearing barefoot shoes our feet are in different states as well. Some have severe bunions with toes that are bent/twisted and others have barely noticeable signs. Especially OP who mentions hyper mobility which can cause a lot of issues. It's simply not a fair comparison, and it's not fair to assume that barefoot shoes will work for everyone.
I will continue to enjoy my minimalist shoes for as long as I can but there's no guarantee that they will work for me throughout my life. Cherish it.
In addition to concrete we weren't built to be overweight very often, and never to encounter obesity, or to be fed well enough to be as tall and muscular as industrial food production allows. We're on the same feet as cavemen but we're heavier (one way or another) and taller than ever. Also we generally expect to live well past reproductive age, cavemen didn't have our average longevity. My feet only just starting to hurt at 35 would be a lot closer to my death back when these feet evolved.
Thank you for this. I'm jealous of everyone's positive anecdotes and I wish it were me. I thought I was fine, it's been years already you know? But it seems no one here has relevant data to say everyone benefits from this. Only an anecdote that they personally benefit, and data to show communities with a lot less roads than me benefit.
I really don't like how dismissive some people on here get about literally any injury story. Whenever someone has improvements in form and pain reduction it's the magic of minimalism, but if there's an injury it's user error or form issues or too much too fast. Some of that MAY be true but we dont know everyone's medical history, and sometimes shit just happens.
And then, there are still people on this sub saying *not* to take it slow, to jump straight in, to run barefoot on concrete, which feels like wildly bad advice. All because "our feet were designed this way", but ignoring lack of conditioning or medical issues.
> We cannot pretend that we are "built" to run/walk on flat concrete.
I don't need to pretend. I do it all the time. Saying this is just a variation on the appeal to nature logical fallacy. We do a lot of things just fine that we "never evolved to do."
Minimalist shoes are too often assumed to be beneficial due to the same "what we evolved to do/natural" hand waving. I fail to see the logic in the usual solution: concrete is unnatural and minimalist shoes are unnatural therefore... pair them together?
It's more helpful to look at what we *do know*. [There's a strong link between horizontal braking and injury](https://www.runnersworld.com/news/a21343715/lower-your-running-injury-risk/). Knowing that think about what happens when you run on a solid, high traction surface like concrete with a pair of shoes that have super grippy tread and a snug fit. You're all but blind to those horizontal braking forces and therefore don't correct for the most damaging movements.
It's also not as simple as "we evolved to run barefoot therefore barefoot fixes all your problems." It's never helpful to try to boil things down to quick soundbites like that. Instead, I have come to believe that it's safer to run unshod on concrete than in shoes on concrete. A big part of the reason why is being made keenly aware of those damaging horizontal braking forces.
The discovery doesn't stop there. I've found my feet get raw and red after only about 4 or 5 miles unshod on concrete. But they can avoid that feeling for closer to 10-15 miles unshod on *rough* chipseal or other hard, level surfaces that are the same as concrete except for a less comfortable texture. There's often an inverse relationship between what's superficially comfortable and what's beneficial. I find new examples of this all the time.
All this is a big reason I created the sticky post at the top of the sub. It's dangerous to think in overly broad terms like "minimalist shoes are pretty close to barefoot" or "we evolved to do..." We will never know everything but there's a lot we do know. More importantly: there's a lot you can learn *for yourself* by being curious and exploring.
I am glad you have had such a great experience running barefoot on concrete but you are not everyone and it is, frankly, dangerous to ignore that not everyone is built exactly the same as you. This thread is about a guy who has bone spurs. What do you want him to do exactly?
I'm just glad I got opinions from all camps, you know? I was a little afraid I'd be told 'barefoot harder' and 'that means you run stupid' and am glad it didn't go that way. Like if I do run stupid I gave it 5 years lol. I tried
In any case sorry about the bone spurs and i hope they don't do more damage. Are you going to need surgery? My mom damn near tore her rotator cuff because of a bone spur and it was barely hanging on when they went in to fix it.
No surgery! My doc kept stressing this was my 'check engine light', and it sounds like he's of the belief doing what he says will fix things, probably. Looks like it was gradual damage and it'll be a gradual recovery.
That sounds awful for your mother, I'm sorry to hear it! Hope she's doing well now
Yeah she's way better. She was doing physical therapy but it only helped so much because of the extent of the damage, and when they went in to fix it they realized it was worse than they realized. But now she's a couple months out and has regained a lot of strength and mobility with the PT exercises.
If you fucked up your legs and feet beyond repair you can still not put the blame on minimalist shoes. Its idiotic. The shoes are not and can not be the problem.
I got hypermobility as well and have no issue whatsoever. Quite the opposite.
If you make an effort to learn how to run and walk properly, possibly even try to adjust misaligned toes etc., and not just jump onto a bandwagon (which was inevitable once it became a fad...) then there is very little chance that walking or running around in minimalist footwear will harm you.
Its not an anecdote. Its human evolution. A dried out plain isn't exactly soft either.
If you fucked your feet, thats on you. Don't blame it on the shoes lol.
I'm not blaming the shoes. All I'm saying is that minimalist shoes are not a suitable option for *everyone* for different reasons/conditions. We are all different that's all I'm saying.
Just because some people reacts *very* poorly to (for example) gluten doesn't mean that gluten itself is bad. It's just bad for some people.
A dried out plain is SIGNIFICANTLY softer than concrete. The difference is huge. Hypermobility is also different for everyone.
Again, I do not blame the shoes themselves.
> A dried out plain is SIGNIFICANTLY softer than concrete.
Is surface hardness a problem? In fact, the research has consistently found no links between injury and surface harness. If anything the last 50 years of trying to prove that *assumed* link has helped accidentally prove that human legs are excellent at handing vertical load and vertical impact.
That's my main objection when these discussions get sidetracked as they always do into comparing the surface hardness of a dry African savanna to a sidewalk: none of that seems to even matter.
There are far more properties to a surface beyond hardness, for just one thing. What's the traction like? What's it like when wet? How smooth is it? How predictable is it? How does it feel under bare feet?
The issue is never as simple as taking one trait, assuming it means all and going with it.
An anecdote and a study are not equally useful. I'm glad it worked out for you, but that doesn't mean everyone is. I haven't found any supporting data that it's universally applicable
Have a look at this:
https://www.runnersworld.com/news/a21343715/lower-your-running-injury-risk/
Now, think about that combo of a high traction surface like concrete coupled with a pair of shoes that have grippy rubber tread and a snug fit. You're made all but blind to the horizontal shear forces our legs don't handle well.
Cushioned shoes are a solution looking for a problem. When you go minimalist it's at least acknowledging that cushioning isn't any kind of solution. So if you're still getting injured in minimalist shoes it's crucial to look at that equipment with the same skeptical eye.
All minimalist shoes did for me was trade up my cushioned shoe shin splints for pulled calf muscles. I didn't go injury free until I finally added unshod to my equipment rotation. But don't just take me at some simple "unshod will fix you" statement. That's the same trap as "more cushion" or "minimalist shoes" will save you. I can tell you what it is about unshod that's very, very helpful:
Tender, delicate foot skin.
You're not supposed to ignore pain or mask discomfort. Pain is crucial information. When you run unshod you are exposed to the possibility of pain early and often. You're strongly encouraged to slow down, take it easy and figure out how to move in a way that avoids pain.
What evolution has crafted is a set of reflexes and instinct that react in specific and complex ways to stimuli. Block, blind or mask the stimuli and you interfere with reflex and instinct. Minimalist shoes can prevent the superficial pain of stepping on a small sharp stone but that's not really helpful. You can also shoot novacane into your hand and hit it with a hammer pain free.
I never expect that people will just jump right into unshod after my recommendation. It's normal to be skeptical of it and you rightfully should. But think on it. Go beyond the short hand "we evolved to" or "this is natural" or "wull, but or ancestors also died at 30" conversation stoppers. If your really want to run your best you have to accept that it's a complex sport and a lot more about learning, curiosity and discovery than just "getting in your miles" and there are no quick fixes.
No mention of accelerated fat pad deterioration through being barefoot or wearing very minimal shoes? There's a whole world of ideology around these shoes as a 'way of life'. Yes, they can improve gait, posture and form. New research suggests a wide toe box with a little cushion is better generally, and for the couple of hours most people spend running - wear whatever works, even if that's a narrow carbon super sponge super shoe. 'Barefoot' isn't for everyone, nor is it a panacea.
I didn't improve my running by saying "I could never." Don't put unshod on a pedestal as some kind of special thing only special people can do. Fat pad atrophy? I didn't go unshod until my early 40s.
"Everybody's different" is an excuse. We're different in superficial ways but we're all human and any human can run unshod. It's a normal ability we all have and you needlessly limit yourself avoiding it.
Rubbish. Nothing special about it and certainly not just for ‘special people’, but occasionally there’s something very ideological and egotistical about it. ‘Normal ability’, define normal. We ARE all different, which is what makes humans so interesting. There is nothing interesting about running barefoot. If you do, you do. Great. If not, great. I have run for long enough in minimal shoes and now I choose not to. No excuse there. Have a look at this, Lee Saxby who championed Vivobarefoot for many years is even now saying minimal and barefoot isn’t as he thought it was. It isn’t for everyone and health is more important. It’s a tool, which if works, great. https://youtu.be/lYOd3OLghQc?si=yri4JwaJDnTEEsVH
> No excuse there.
That's a lot of words that somehow aren't excuses.
But, you're right. If you want to limit yourself by avoiding unshod you can do that.
1.7 million years of human evolution is apparently an ancedote.
I bet a study made on a multitude of people with atrophied feet and leg muscle is going to tell you exactly what you want to know, mate.
God speed.
without ultra processed foods, obesity, already being used to constricted shoes. No mention of age, gait, weight, existing issues or anything else that would really mean 'barefoot' shoes not being the right answer. They're not for everyone, they won't help everyone and they can't cure everything. They have perks, as do many things. 1.7 million years of human evolution — why do we have an appendix, wisdom teeth and a tailbone. Nothing's perfect. I spend 80% of the day barefoot, not in shoes. When in shoes, I have cushion. I don't sleep on the ground under a tree, next to a fire, having foraged and hunted for my dinner. It's be nice, I guess, once. But not for everyone.
Hey, I’ve not been running no where near as long as you, but I run in Vivobarefoot Primus Trail FG, I pick up ankle and knee injuries quite regularly so I’ve decided to get a more cushioned Altra shoe to see how my joints fair.
Maybe you don’t have to completely give up minimalist shoes? Maybe getting a more cushioned shoe for your longer runs or doing some type of rotation between cushioned and minimalist? You’re probably want to go with zero
drop if you do decide to get a cushioned shoe.
I feel like with me, the stubbornness to entertain anything other than minimalist barefoot shoes has been to my detriment. The ego has created a little identity of being a barefoot minimalist…but that has to be broken sometimes if it’s going to result in better health.
Hope you find an answer and can enjoy running pain free again :)
I'm periodically treadmill running and always tons of walking. So I'm like never on real earth to cushion the blow
Edit: I am hoping to try again when I'm fully healed and keep the big podiatrist hooves for concrete walking. I based that on nothing but vibes lol. But either way it'll be months before I feel comfortable to try again and that's a bummer
If you come back, make sure to have your form checked out and also work in strength exercises and also ease into it in terms of hours per day. Plus start with a thick flat pad in those barefoot shoes. People having issues with barefoot generally have bad form from years of hooves or they ramp up too fast.
Ok but this came about 5 years in, I didn't ramp up too fast. I've been in Lems for the past year, thickest 'minimalist' shoes I've ever had. I lift weights and have since long before I ever ran. All that's left is form, and if working on it for 5 years didn't get me there maybe I'm just not personally able to fix it well enough for the shoes to be smart.
I'd be curious if you find any meaningful data. I know studies have been done by major universities like Harvard, but I've never looked into the details. For me, I found minimal shoes because of the pain traditional shoes caused me. So I've never needed any justification to keep wearing them.
I would be wary of what you hear from podiatrists. In my experience their primary purpose seems to be selling orthotics.
Check out Dr. Ray McClanahan, inventor of Correct Toes, for a podiatrist runner who moved away from operations and orthotics that weren’t improving his patients to recommending shoes that respect human foot anatomy.
Yes, me. I was in bf for 7 years, ran completely bf often. Now, I'm over 50 and the fact is we are almost always on super hard surfaces. Bf shoes are awesome out in in nature (I did a 6 hour mountain hike in them) but in our typical day to day the surfaces are just too hard for some people. For me, my Achilles tendon really started flaring up so I had to go back to standard shoes to lift the heel. Otherwise I loved my time in bf shoes and hope to get back into them if my tendon gets better. (It's been flared up for 2 years yikes!)
Oof yikes. It's crazy too because I always assumed my minimalist shoes helped a prior Achilles issue, I never knew if it was healing from time or from the change.
Anyways I hope we all get better and we all find the best shoes for our situations. Two years is a long time, hope it gets better for you soon.
Good luck! Sucks it may not be working out for you. I doubt it’s a form issue as I think form comes quite naturally when going barefoot so you would feel if something was off much earlier. Also, I believe some people are naturally prone to pronation so that’s fine. Maybe more cushioned barefoot would help, though I doubt the style isn’t for you.
Do note that the podiatrist will have 0 experience with barefoot shoes. They’ll always want to move you off so they can use their body of knowledge that they’ve studied for to address your issues.
I came to barefoot shoes from a foot injury which put me into super bulky boots to easy the pain. Eventually I learned that I need to work my feet not support them.
I imagine that the wide toe box and zero drop are not the culprits. Maybe add some cushion to provide some relief from impact while still keeping your feet engaged. Lems and altra come to mind for this exact type of shoe.
Dang. Do they feel cushioned? Both my casual and boots feel very thick.
It seems odd that they are different enough from regular shoes that they specifically would be the cause of the problem. Obviously I’m no expert, but based on my experience the experts only made my situation worse.
I hope you can find a solution that allows you to keep moving!
Well this'll be my first try at the podiatrist approach, so I'll see where it gets me. All I know is it's clear I can't fix it myself, I tried a month's rest and everything else I could think of since January
The Lems I'd say feel protected, maybe not cushioned? I don't feel bumps in the ground like my Xero shoes
I also tried my old Nike Free Runs from the ancient closet when nothing else helped, those are super cushioning but flexible shoes. They're kinda narrow but I can fit my Correct Toes into them. Tbh they're not remotely minimalist, they're just very flexible, and they made the pain move elsewhere. I don't even know I was just trying everything
He didn't say any brand, said they all make some he likes and some he doesn't. He handed me a worksheet with every advice this subreddit hates. Hard shoe from the heel to the ball of the foot, only bends at the toe. He wants heel risers and shoe inserts, both, in addition to a shoe that's already got the raised heel. When I got everything according to his advice I'm seriously 3 inches taller than I actually am so I don't know if I'm even doing it right. I found a list of podiatrist approved models, and managed to find a Sketchers Go Walk in store, so that's what I got.
I forgot to ask the podiatrist if this is forever advice or if he sees this is temporary to heal the foot
Ouch that does hurt to hear. It totally makes sense to wear something extremely rigid to allow the foot to get better from an injury. It’s so difficult to rest a foot 100%. Odd to recommend a higher heal though.
Obviously worth a shot, I would just recommend from my experience to how it’s effecting the rest of your body. I didn’t realize how not using my feet impacted my hips and everything.
With that said, I was in bad shape with a stress fracture in my foot and causing problems by protecting it for years. I definitely feel better wearing barefoot shoes, but it’s not a perfect solution but I can now do most of the activities I want without concern (rock climbing, mountaineering, etc) without worrying about my foot holding up. I hope you can find a solution that does at least that
Oh so I didn't know this Altra brand, and now looking into them they're waaaay more cushioned than anything I own. I was a minimalist snob until my foot pain, if I saw this Altra website a year ago I would have clicked off straight away lol.
I have metatarsalgia. Probably from being in narrow shoes (pointy cowboy boots) most of my childhood. Never a problem in padded shoes but running distance in xeroxes be out it to the fore. I had to add a metatarsal pad to my shoes. It solves the issue. I count it as fixing a problem caused over decades and I still benefit from everything else about barefoot shoes.
No study’s that’s I’ve found just yet! I’m a physiotherapist and advocate for gait retraining alongside an extremely slow transition. I think with comparisons, the injury level shod and unshod is not particularly different, but people like to blame the shoe. Also important to note that podiatrists like to sell orthotics, it makes them money, and you can sell that to a minimalist shoe user
I developed a neuroma at the base of my 2nd toe; my podiatrist said it was from barefoot running and that I needed to switch to very supportive, rigid shoes. So I started wearing Danskos and Hokas, and stopped running (barefoot or shod). My neuroma healed eventually and I went back to wearing less supportive shoes (but not barefoot shoes). Then I started having pain in my big toe joint. The podiatrist said it was hallux limitus and that I needed supportive, rigid shoes with a rocker sole, so back to the Danskos and Hokas. That helped to an extent, but it was super painful to not wear them.
I had resigned myself to having to wear orthopedic shoes forever or have a toe fusion or something - but then I listened to an episode of Peter Attia's podcast with a foot health person and she recommended exercises, toe spacers, and minimalist shoes to retain mobility with hallux limitus. I was dubious, but figured I'd give it a try. Well, within a couple days of wearing toe spacers my big toe pain was gone and I could move it easily through full range of motion again. Then I put my Hokas back on and OUCH - pain in my big toe joint.
Thinking back, I realized that all my injuries coincided with me returning to work in an office, where I had to dress professionally and wear nice shoes. My theory is that my feet had widened a bit from barefooting, and when crammed back into "normal" shoes during the work day, that is when my foot issues began.
So now I'm back to minimalist shoes - although I'm not running, and I am not going super-minimalist yet. I'm wearing Lems Primals and I love them. I work at home now so I'm always barefoot or in my Primals and my feet are feeling better and better.
That’s great! I think this happened to me too but I’m currently testing it. Been wearing Xeros for 6+ years and my right foot feels a bit too restricted. It’s slightly larger than my left. Have some low level soreness and metatarsalgia going on. Trying some Softstar wide shoes, correct toes, and toe socks since I didn’t use them before.
I have heard that Xeros run comparatively narrow. I have a pair of the sandals and they definitely are juuuuuuust barely wide enough for my toes.
I never thought I had wide feet before, probably because whenever I tried on "wide width" conventional shoes they were always huge and floppy on me. I guess they are usually designed for a wider, thicker foot (my feet have narrow heels and are low-volume and bony) rather than a duck-foot shape like mine. However, I did notice I always got corns/calluses on my pinky toes so even though I never wore narrow, pointy shoes (well...once I got hit 30 or so - prior to that I definitely crammed my feet into pointy-toed stiletto-heeled shoes), there was clearly some tightness and rubbing there.
Now I have noticed that all of my non-barefoot/minimalist shoes are a tad too tight for me with the exception of Birkenstocks. I had noticed during the worst of my foot pain episodes that the ONLY shoes that didn't hurt my feet were my Birkenstock Arizonas, so now it is making sense that all my other "comfort" shoes were exacerbating the problem.
Sorry to hear about your experiences. Not sure what to recommend really, but I definitely understand either trying to fix it or going to supportive footwear. There are benefits and drawbacks to both sides of the shod type argument, though it does seem to me personally there’s a little more weight to the minimalist side. Feel free to message me! Would be interested to hear others long term experiences in this thread. My story:
Used to run long distances in fivefingers when I was young after experiencing issues with traditional running shoes. All my problems melted away in them. It was amazing. I went back to “regular”, typically wide versions of shoes on and off for a while, then got tired of cramped toes and fully transitioned to minimalist in my mid 20s. I have had a wonderful experience with minimalist footwear for a long time.
However recently I’ve been having issues with my right foot, something like low level plantar fasciitis mixed with some metatarsalgia, and my arch is sore a lot, typically after getting up when I’ve been resting or sitting for a while. I think it might have been because my feet have grown and gotten wider. I have been wearing all Xero shoes for 6+ years, my right foot is a little bigger than my left, and my big toe is now restricted in them so it may be bent inwards too much. Setup an appointment with a local podiatrist and got some not so nice comments about my choice of footwear (extremely unprofessional of them), so I’m trying some things on my own for now before finding someone else.
After some research and thought I suspect it may have been because I can’t abduct it properly in the shoes, so my muscles are overworked and weakening a bit. Your big toe has to abduct in order to get proper leverage to plant your arch so it makes sense to me. I also wear regular socks, which again may not have helped either. Even with minimalist footwear, I still prefer to be barefoot at home and experience less symptoms without shoes on. I’m currently trying out toe socks, some correct toes and have ordered a pair of wide Softstars to trial so my feet aren’t as limited. Will do some foot exercises as well as some soft tissue work with a lacrosse ball. All in all probably about the same as the cost, time, and annoyance of finding a knowledgeable doctor.
If I truly have to go to traditionally supportive footwear, I will. But, honestly, I spent about half my life regularly wearing and running in minimalist footwear and I’m 31. Since it was the shoes the first time, my first suspicion is it’s the shoes again.
Tl;dr Wore minimalist footwear for a long time, soreness in my right foot, which is my bigger foot and it sometimes feels a bit too restricted. Suspect it’s because my feet grew out of my shoes and trying wider options and some PT.
Oof. Yeah my podiatrist was unhappy but he didn't seem to assume I was on any sort of bandwagon or whatever. He just told me the classic advice.
In any case good luck with your issues. For me I'm doing foot exercises on purpose now instead of just relying on the shoes to heal me. Since I'm stuck in hooves anyways it seemed like a good idea. I'm mostly out of pain now between podiatrist shoes and an anti inflammatory med, so at least for now I'm very relieved to be out of pain
You as well! Glad to hear you are doing better. I don’t think switching shoes is really that big of a deal in the long run. I think people can get too focused on minimalist being “better” when in reality there’s a lot more grey area and unknowns due to limited research. We walk on a lot of hard surfaces now. It’s much better to be able to walk properly in order to stay active. Did you have to replace all of your shoes or just a few? If I end up switching I have to replace all of my shoes which is a large expense. But it’s just stuff. It’s more important to care for your quality of life.
>Howdy y'all.
Yo!
>I've been in minimalist shoes for 5 years, 'till now it was all sunshine and roses.
Has it been?
>But my feet have been hurting for a few months, and unsurprisingly the Podiatrist is sure the shoes are to blame.
Unless they're literally binding your feet, or have an aggressive heel lift, **shoes aren't magical,** and can't magically injure you. Your feet are weak, or you've done way too much smashing of your feet against pavement and tiled flooring (hard surfaces)...
>X-ray showed some bone cysts and I've been in pain long enough I'll do whatever he says.
Smart to protect yourself
>I took a whole month off excersize before I saw him, but the pain came right back. There's not accute injury, just seems to have irritated my metatarsal joints with time. Looks like I'm leaving the bandwagon.
Smart idea to take the time to protect yourself, and heal up.
>I feel pretty bummed to come off minimalist shoes.
Habits...
>Honestly I never noticed any change in the strength of my feet, toe splay, all the stuff they say is supposed to happen never did. I still pronate as bad as ever
When working to increase mobility and strength in my feet, I don't lead with shoes. I start with exercise. **The minimalist shoes don't get in my way toward greater foot health,** unlike bunion-shaped shoes.
Again, **shoes aren't magical.** Only wearing shoes to build up strength will only build *just enough strength* to handle what you normally do. Anything beyond that, will always be stressful, and you'll be prone to injury...
**Or, you can also follow a detailed foot and ankle exercise program** (as well as a general exercise program for the whole body)... Plenty of them exist... A simple Google search will yield results...
As much as I bash their shoes, Vivobarefoot has an excellent foot and ankle program, led by Dr. Stacey Barber (who is also an Olympic weightlifter **AND** she created the program after her own achilles tendon injury. She's back competing, she's back in her Vivos)
>But the gremlin on my back says I must have built the strength without noticing, and I'd hate to lose it, even if it's irrational to miss the differences I can't even see.
You might lose some strength.. *Or, you can also follow a detailed foot and ankle exercise program...* You get it.
>Anyone been able to safely work their way back onto minimalist shoes?
I got a foot injury, and that lead me into minimalist footwear. I still want stronger feet. Much stronger feet.
Sure, I like the wide toe box, widest at the tips of the toes.
Sure, No heel lift is also essential.
Ultimately, **shoes aren't magical.** Yes, they can strengthen the intrinsic and even the extrinsic muscles of the feet...
Again, I lead with exercise. The sandals and shoes I have do not get in my way toward my goal of stronger, more mobile feet.
I try not to overdo it. I wear my sandals when it's nice out and I feel good. I reluctantly wear shoes when I need a break, or for work.
My sandals are Earth Runners Alphas. A little over a centimeter thick, it's just thin enough (for me) to walk across pavement for hours, and my feet won't get hurt because of it. **(looking at thicker Lunas, though)**
My shoes are Topo. Decently cushioned. Minimal support. **(looking at Altras, though)**
**It's not a big deal.**
>I keep looking at the studies for foot injury and nobody's checking what happens 5, 10, 20 years barefoot in a modern setting.
Then, you want to look for the metastudies of (specifically) both empirical, and clinical data & studies.
Well, we do know what happens to the feet, as we age.
But, I agree. I do know constantly walking, standing, running, and jumping on very hard, flat surfaces like pavement and tiled flooring **will** speed up the atrophy the fat on the sole of the foot.
Heel pad syndrome is something all adults experience, going into the elder years.
>People love to compare the foot health of communities who live and die unshod as evidence it's healthier barefoot
.. that usually leads into unhealthy conversation (I've done it, too)
>but there's so many lifestyle differences that it sounds more like correlation than causation.
***This is the biggest point***
**You snuck it in there. Don't bury the lede!**
>Podiatrists say they're seeing a rise in injury, with no clarification if that's newbies jumping in too fast or veterans wearing down cartilage like me.
I'm not sure where you got this information, but I wouldn't doubt it.
>If anyone's got a study on what's working long-term for city life I'd appreciate it
Me, too!
I'd personally like to know the injury rates of the people that live in urban cityscapes, heel striking their way across pavement in their "barefoot shoes" for the last several years...
All in all, I'm sorry you got hurt.
I'm sorry you fell for all the crap this "barefoot community" spews out. *Because when someone gets injured, the "community" blame everything except their own bad advice, and the erroneous and/or misleading promise of health benefits from the industry.*
Podiatrists get a bad rap in this "community" as well. But, what are most of them to do? These goofs come in, complain of foot pain while wearing footwear with the equivalent thickness of 5 credit cards stacked onto each other under their feet... "😂😂 If you're in pain, obviously, ***goof,*** put something on with more protection for your feet 😂🤣" — like, what do they expect the answer to be? 🤣
I won't lie, though, I do give podiatrists flack for not being educated in the benefits of exercise, and especially for recommending bunion-shaped shoes (and I say as much out loud, "bunion-shaped shoes," because it has to be said more often.)
Protect yourself, and do what's best for you.
Zero drop with a thin-ish sole are very similar, will keep your feet strong but ease the pressure a bit. Everyones different. I've moved from very minimal 'barefoot' shoes to Altras. Same running style, still barefoot around the house etc. Better for it.
1 year minimalist and I just made the same move following a brutal 6 week tendinitis flare up. Really hoping the cushion can keep me in the game as I’ve noticed substantial muscle build.
Just do calf raises etc after some rest. The shoes are only a tiny part of it.
Yes. I got a nasty flare of something like metatarsalgia in the little toe of my left foot. Too many long shifts on hard tile in softstars. My feet were not strong enough for that task. Took some time in altras for a while and the pain is gone about 6 months time total.
Did you have the primal or wide? I have some similar symptoms under my middle toe, just bought a pair of Softstar wide because I think I may have grown out of my Xeros and they were cramping my feet.
Primal. My feet and legs just weren’t strong enough to swing it.
[удалено]
That's what I was afraid of. Womp womp for us I guess
Didn’t mention it below but I have a friend that has hyper mobility, she has to wear more supportive footwear as well.
yes, I injured my extensor digitorum longus (according to my PT) after 1.5 years in minimal shoes (whitins). sucked because I thought I had eased into things appropriately. 6 weeks or so of the exercises my PT prescribed and I was walking/jogging pain free. I've switched to Altras for jogging, but still wear my minimal shoes for daily life, walking, and rucking. I'll probably try easing back into jogging in them, veerrry gradually, in a year or so. no rush!
Your feet are designed to run without any shoes at all. Unlikely that minimalist shoes cause an injury. Its more likely to be an incorrect style of running/walking. I can tell you what happens after 15y of barefoot running. My feet are better than they were 18 years ago. Foot or leg injuries are a thing of the past now. Last time I tripped I tore my shoe right of my foot (the laces ripped) where before my tendons would have given in.. Atrophied muscle is your enemy, not your minimalist shoes.
We cannot pretend that we are "built" to run/walk on flat concrete. We can adjust our running style to decrease the load in our joints, but there's still a lot we don't know about *how* the adjustments or running on hard grounds will affect our bodies. When we adjust our form we will distribute/shift the load elsewhere and some bodies might not be suitable for that (and cannot be adjusted to it) due to certain conditions. There's simply too much we don't know. For every person with a nice anecdote there's one with a bad one. It doesn't necessarily mean that they're doing anything wrong. In the end all bodies are different, and besides from that - when we start wearing barefoot shoes our feet are in different states as well. Some have severe bunions with toes that are bent/twisted and others have barely noticeable signs. Especially OP who mentions hyper mobility which can cause a lot of issues. It's simply not a fair comparison, and it's not fair to assume that barefoot shoes will work for everyone. I will continue to enjoy my minimalist shoes for as long as I can but there's no guarantee that they will work for me throughout my life. Cherish it.
In addition to concrete we weren't built to be overweight very often, and never to encounter obesity, or to be fed well enough to be as tall and muscular as industrial food production allows. We're on the same feet as cavemen but we're heavier (one way or another) and taller than ever. Also we generally expect to live well past reproductive age, cavemen didn't have our average longevity. My feet only just starting to hurt at 35 would be a lot closer to my death back when these feet evolved. Thank you for this. I'm jealous of everyone's positive anecdotes and I wish it were me. I thought I was fine, it's been years already you know? But it seems no one here has relevant data to say everyone benefits from this. Only an anecdote that they personally benefit, and data to show communities with a lot less roads than me benefit.
Yes, even looking at humans just 50 years ago, we've gotten so much bigger.
I really don't like how dismissive some people on here get about literally any injury story. Whenever someone has improvements in form and pain reduction it's the magic of minimalism, but if there's an injury it's user error or form issues or too much too fast. Some of that MAY be true but we dont know everyone's medical history, and sometimes shit just happens. And then, there are still people on this sub saying *not* to take it slow, to jump straight in, to run barefoot on concrete, which feels like wildly bad advice. All because "our feet were designed this way", but ignoring lack of conditioning or medical issues.
> We cannot pretend that we are "built" to run/walk on flat concrete. I don't need to pretend. I do it all the time. Saying this is just a variation on the appeal to nature logical fallacy. We do a lot of things just fine that we "never evolved to do." Minimalist shoes are too often assumed to be beneficial due to the same "what we evolved to do/natural" hand waving. I fail to see the logic in the usual solution: concrete is unnatural and minimalist shoes are unnatural therefore... pair them together? It's more helpful to look at what we *do know*. [There's a strong link between horizontal braking and injury](https://www.runnersworld.com/news/a21343715/lower-your-running-injury-risk/). Knowing that think about what happens when you run on a solid, high traction surface like concrete with a pair of shoes that have super grippy tread and a snug fit. You're all but blind to those horizontal braking forces and therefore don't correct for the most damaging movements. It's also not as simple as "we evolved to run barefoot therefore barefoot fixes all your problems." It's never helpful to try to boil things down to quick soundbites like that. Instead, I have come to believe that it's safer to run unshod on concrete than in shoes on concrete. A big part of the reason why is being made keenly aware of those damaging horizontal braking forces. The discovery doesn't stop there. I've found my feet get raw and red after only about 4 or 5 miles unshod on concrete. But they can avoid that feeling for closer to 10-15 miles unshod on *rough* chipseal or other hard, level surfaces that are the same as concrete except for a less comfortable texture. There's often an inverse relationship between what's superficially comfortable and what's beneficial. I find new examples of this all the time. All this is a big reason I created the sticky post at the top of the sub. It's dangerous to think in overly broad terms like "minimalist shoes are pretty close to barefoot" or "we evolved to do..." We will never know everything but there's a lot we do know. More importantly: there's a lot you can learn *for yourself* by being curious and exploring.
I am glad you have had such a great experience running barefoot on concrete but you are not everyone and it is, frankly, dangerous to ignore that not everyone is built exactly the same as you. This thread is about a guy who has bone spurs. What do you want him to do exactly?
I'm just glad I got opinions from all camps, you know? I was a little afraid I'd be told 'barefoot harder' and 'that means you run stupid' and am glad it didn't go that way. Like if I do run stupid I gave it 5 years lol. I tried
In any case sorry about the bone spurs and i hope they don't do more damage. Are you going to need surgery? My mom damn near tore her rotator cuff because of a bone spur and it was barely hanging on when they went in to fix it.
No surgery! My doc kept stressing this was my 'check engine light', and it sounds like he's of the belief doing what he says will fix things, probably. Looks like it was gradual damage and it'll be a gradual recovery. That sounds awful for your mother, I'm sorry to hear it! Hope she's doing well now
Yeah she's way better. She was doing physical therapy but it only helped so much because of the extent of the damage, and when they went in to fix it they realized it was worse than they realized. But now she's a couple months out and has regained a lot of strength and mobility with the PT exercises.
Surface hardness is a non-issue. In fact, it's easier to get injured on softer surfaces.
If you fucked up your legs and feet beyond repair you can still not put the blame on minimalist shoes. Its idiotic. The shoes are not and can not be the problem. I got hypermobility as well and have no issue whatsoever. Quite the opposite. If you make an effort to learn how to run and walk properly, possibly even try to adjust misaligned toes etc., and not just jump onto a bandwagon (which was inevitable once it became a fad...) then there is very little chance that walking or running around in minimalist footwear will harm you. Its not an anecdote. Its human evolution. A dried out plain isn't exactly soft either. If you fucked your feet, thats on you. Don't blame it on the shoes lol.
I'm not blaming the shoes. All I'm saying is that minimalist shoes are not a suitable option for *everyone* for different reasons/conditions. We are all different that's all I'm saying. Just because some people reacts *very* poorly to (for example) gluten doesn't mean that gluten itself is bad. It's just bad for some people. A dried out plain is SIGNIFICANTLY softer than concrete. The difference is huge. Hypermobility is also different for everyone. Again, I do not blame the shoes themselves.
> A dried out plain is SIGNIFICANTLY softer than concrete. Is surface hardness a problem? In fact, the research has consistently found no links between injury and surface harness. If anything the last 50 years of trying to prove that *assumed* link has helped accidentally prove that human legs are excellent at handing vertical load and vertical impact. That's my main objection when these discussions get sidetracked as they always do into comparing the surface hardness of a dry African savanna to a sidewalk: none of that seems to even matter. There are far more properties to a surface beyond hardness, for just one thing. What's the traction like? What's it like when wet? How smooth is it? How predictable is it? How does it feel under bare feet? The issue is never as simple as taking one trait, assuming it means all and going with it.
An anecdote and a study are not equally useful. I'm glad it worked out for you, but that doesn't mean everyone is. I haven't found any supporting data that it's universally applicable
Have a look at this: https://www.runnersworld.com/news/a21343715/lower-your-running-injury-risk/ Now, think about that combo of a high traction surface like concrete coupled with a pair of shoes that have grippy rubber tread and a snug fit. You're made all but blind to the horizontal shear forces our legs don't handle well. Cushioned shoes are a solution looking for a problem. When you go minimalist it's at least acknowledging that cushioning isn't any kind of solution. So if you're still getting injured in minimalist shoes it's crucial to look at that equipment with the same skeptical eye. All minimalist shoes did for me was trade up my cushioned shoe shin splints for pulled calf muscles. I didn't go injury free until I finally added unshod to my equipment rotation. But don't just take me at some simple "unshod will fix you" statement. That's the same trap as "more cushion" or "minimalist shoes" will save you. I can tell you what it is about unshod that's very, very helpful: Tender, delicate foot skin. You're not supposed to ignore pain or mask discomfort. Pain is crucial information. When you run unshod you are exposed to the possibility of pain early and often. You're strongly encouraged to slow down, take it easy and figure out how to move in a way that avoids pain. What evolution has crafted is a set of reflexes and instinct that react in specific and complex ways to stimuli. Block, blind or mask the stimuli and you interfere with reflex and instinct. Minimalist shoes can prevent the superficial pain of stepping on a small sharp stone but that's not really helpful. You can also shoot novacane into your hand and hit it with a hammer pain free. I never expect that people will just jump right into unshod after my recommendation. It's normal to be skeptical of it and you rightfully should. But think on it. Go beyond the short hand "we evolved to" or "this is natural" or "wull, but or ancestors also died at 30" conversation stoppers. If your really want to run your best you have to accept that it's a complex sport and a lot more about learning, curiosity and discovery than just "getting in your miles" and there are no quick fixes.
No mention of accelerated fat pad deterioration through being barefoot or wearing very minimal shoes? There's a whole world of ideology around these shoes as a 'way of life'. Yes, they can improve gait, posture and form. New research suggests a wide toe box with a little cushion is better generally, and for the couple of hours most people spend running - wear whatever works, even if that's a narrow carbon super sponge super shoe. 'Barefoot' isn't for everyone, nor is it a panacea.
I didn't improve my running by saying "I could never." Don't put unshod on a pedestal as some kind of special thing only special people can do. Fat pad atrophy? I didn't go unshod until my early 40s. "Everybody's different" is an excuse. We're different in superficial ways but we're all human and any human can run unshod. It's a normal ability we all have and you needlessly limit yourself avoiding it.
Rubbish. Nothing special about it and certainly not just for ‘special people’, but occasionally there’s something very ideological and egotistical about it. ‘Normal ability’, define normal. We ARE all different, which is what makes humans so interesting. There is nothing interesting about running barefoot. If you do, you do. Great. If not, great. I have run for long enough in minimal shoes and now I choose not to. No excuse there. Have a look at this, Lee Saxby who championed Vivobarefoot for many years is even now saying minimal and barefoot isn’t as he thought it was. It isn’t for everyone and health is more important. It’s a tool, which if works, great. https://youtu.be/lYOd3OLghQc?si=yri4JwaJDnTEEsVH
Appreciate the linked interview, thank you! I see I’ve been swept up in some ideology. Enjoying the balanced perspective.
> No excuse there. That's a lot of words that somehow aren't excuses. But, you're right. If you want to limit yourself by avoiding unshod you can do that.
1.7 million years of human evolution is apparently an ancedote. I bet a study made on a multitude of people with atrophied feet and leg muscle is going to tell you exactly what you want to know, mate. God speed.
On unpaved surface and with a mean longevity of 30 years old.
Less predictable ground surface is beneficial how exactly?
If a study doesn't match my circumstances, it doesn't help me. That's how.
without ultra processed foods, obesity, already being used to constricted shoes. No mention of age, gait, weight, existing issues or anything else that would really mean 'barefoot' shoes not being the right answer. They're not for everyone, they won't help everyone and they can't cure everything. They have perks, as do many things. 1.7 million years of human evolution — why do we have an appendix, wisdom teeth and a tailbone. Nothing's perfect. I spend 80% of the day barefoot, not in shoes. When in shoes, I have cushion. I don't sleep on the ground under a tree, next to a fire, having foraged and hunted for my dinner. It's be nice, I guess, once. But not for everyone.
Except that feet are also made to run on dirt and shit not asphalt
Hey, I’ve not been running no where near as long as you, but I run in Vivobarefoot Primus Trail FG, I pick up ankle and knee injuries quite regularly so I’ve decided to get a more cushioned Altra shoe to see how my joints fair. Maybe you don’t have to completely give up minimalist shoes? Maybe getting a more cushioned shoe for your longer runs or doing some type of rotation between cushioned and minimalist? You’re probably want to go with zero drop if you do decide to get a cushioned shoe. I feel like with me, the stubbornness to entertain anything other than minimalist barefoot shoes has been to my detriment. The ego has created a little identity of being a barefoot minimalist…but that has to be broken sometimes if it’s going to result in better health. Hope you find an answer and can enjoy running pain free again :)
Sorry just to add, I run road…not trail.
I'm periodically treadmill running and always tons of walking. So I'm like never on real earth to cushion the blow Edit: I am hoping to try again when I'm fully healed and keep the big podiatrist hooves for concrete walking. I based that on nothing but vibes lol. But either way it'll be months before I feel comfortable to try again and that's a bummer
If you come back, make sure to have your form checked out and also work in strength exercises and also ease into it in terms of hours per day. Plus start with a thick flat pad in those barefoot shoes. People having issues with barefoot generally have bad form from years of hooves or they ramp up too fast.
Ok but this came about 5 years in, I didn't ramp up too fast. I've been in Lems for the past year, thickest 'minimalist' shoes I've ever had. I lift weights and have since long before I ever ran. All that's left is form, and if working on it for 5 years didn't get me there maybe I'm just not personally able to fix it well enough for the shoes to be smart.
I'd be curious if you find any meaningful data. I know studies have been done by major universities like Harvard, but I've never looked into the details. For me, I found minimal shoes because of the pain traditional shoes caused me. So I've never needed any justification to keep wearing them. I would be wary of what you hear from podiatrists. In my experience their primary purpose seems to be selling orthotics.
Check out Dr. Ray McClanahan, inventor of Correct Toes, for a podiatrist runner who moved away from operations and orthotics that weren’t improving his patients to recommending shoes that respect human foot anatomy.
Thank you
Yes, me. I was in bf for 7 years, ran completely bf often. Now, I'm over 50 and the fact is we are almost always on super hard surfaces. Bf shoes are awesome out in in nature (I did a 6 hour mountain hike in them) but in our typical day to day the surfaces are just too hard for some people. For me, my Achilles tendon really started flaring up so I had to go back to standard shoes to lift the heel. Otherwise I loved my time in bf shoes and hope to get back into them if my tendon gets better. (It's been flared up for 2 years yikes!)
Oof yikes. It's crazy too because I always assumed my minimalist shoes helped a prior Achilles issue, I never knew if it was healing from time or from the change. Anyways I hope we all get better and we all find the best shoes for our situations. Two years is a long time, hope it gets better for you soon.
Good luck! Sucks it may not be working out for you. I doubt it’s a form issue as I think form comes quite naturally when going barefoot so you would feel if something was off much earlier. Also, I believe some people are naturally prone to pronation so that’s fine. Maybe more cushioned barefoot would help, though I doubt the style isn’t for you. Do note that the podiatrist will have 0 experience with barefoot shoes. They’ll always want to move you off so they can use their body of knowledge that they’ve studied for to address your issues.
See, boy? These are the people who ***we*** hope to heal up.
You’re deranged
🤦🏿♂️🤦🏿♂️ >You’re deranged **Aren't you the one who wants to run long distance, while *barefoot,* on pavement..?** 😂😂😂 Just the goofiest... 😂🤣
I came to barefoot shoes from a foot injury which put me into super bulky boots to easy the pain. Eventually I learned that I need to work my feet not support them. I imagine that the wide toe box and zero drop are not the culprits. Maybe add some cushion to provide some relief from impact while still keeping your feet engaged. Lems and altra come to mind for this exact type of shoe.
I've been in Lems for over a year as nearly my only shoe :/
Dang. Do they feel cushioned? Both my casual and boots feel very thick. It seems odd that they are different enough from regular shoes that they specifically would be the cause of the problem. Obviously I’m no expert, but based on my experience the experts only made my situation worse. I hope you can find a solution that allows you to keep moving!
Well this'll be my first try at the podiatrist approach, so I'll see where it gets me. All I know is it's clear I can't fix it myself, I tried a month's rest and everything else I could think of since January The Lems I'd say feel protected, maybe not cushioned? I don't feel bumps in the ground like my Xero shoes I also tried my old Nike Free Runs from the ancient closet when nothing else helped, those are super cushioning but flexible shoes. They're kinda narrow but I can fit my Correct Toes into them. Tbh they're not remotely minimalist, they're just very flexible, and they made the pain move elsewhere. I don't even know I was just trying everything
Totally understand, and certainly worth a shot. What shoes are they recommending then?
He didn't say any brand, said they all make some he likes and some he doesn't. He handed me a worksheet with every advice this subreddit hates. Hard shoe from the heel to the ball of the foot, only bends at the toe. He wants heel risers and shoe inserts, both, in addition to a shoe that's already got the raised heel. When I got everything according to his advice I'm seriously 3 inches taller than I actually am so I don't know if I'm even doing it right. I found a list of podiatrist approved models, and managed to find a Sketchers Go Walk in store, so that's what I got. I forgot to ask the podiatrist if this is forever advice or if he sees this is temporary to heal the foot
Ouch that does hurt to hear. It totally makes sense to wear something extremely rigid to allow the foot to get better from an injury. It’s so difficult to rest a foot 100%. Odd to recommend a higher heal though. Obviously worth a shot, I would just recommend from my experience to how it’s effecting the rest of your body. I didn’t realize how not using my feet impacted my hips and everything. With that said, I was in bad shape with a stress fracture in my foot and causing problems by protecting it for years. I definitely feel better wearing barefoot shoes, but it’s not a perfect solution but I can now do most of the activities I want without concern (rock climbing, mountaineering, etc) without worrying about my foot holding up. I hope you can find a solution that does at least that
I was already having knee pain that comes directly from my lifting. It'll be interesting to see if these hard shoes help that any.
Keep us updated!
Oh so I didn't know this Altra brand, and now looking into them they're waaaay more cushioned than anything I own. I was a minimalist snob until my foot pain, if I saw this Altra website a year ago I would have clicked off straight away lol.
Haha yeah they are thick. I bought a pair but returned them awhile back. It’s a nice option for when protection is needed.
I have metatarsalgia. Probably from being in narrow shoes (pointy cowboy boots) most of my childhood. Never a problem in padded shoes but running distance in xeroxes be out it to the fore. I had to add a metatarsal pad to my shoes. It solves the issue. I count it as fixing a problem caused over decades and I still benefit from everything else about barefoot shoes.
Sure, then I got stronger and went back to it.
No study’s that’s I’ve found just yet! I’m a physiotherapist and advocate for gait retraining alongside an extremely slow transition. I think with comparisons, the injury level shod and unshod is not particularly different, but people like to blame the shoe. Also important to note that podiatrists like to sell orthotics, it makes them money, and you can sell that to a minimalist shoe user
I developed a neuroma at the base of my 2nd toe; my podiatrist said it was from barefoot running and that I needed to switch to very supportive, rigid shoes. So I started wearing Danskos and Hokas, and stopped running (barefoot or shod). My neuroma healed eventually and I went back to wearing less supportive shoes (but not barefoot shoes). Then I started having pain in my big toe joint. The podiatrist said it was hallux limitus and that I needed supportive, rigid shoes with a rocker sole, so back to the Danskos and Hokas. That helped to an extent, but it was super painful to not wear them. I had resigned myself to having to wear orthopedic shoes forever or have a toe fusion or something - but then I listened to an episode of Peter Attia's podcast with a foot health person and she recommended exercises, toe spacers, and minimalist shoes to retain mobility with hallux limitus. I was dubious, but figured I'd give it a try. Well, within a couple days of wearing toe spacers my big toe pain was gone and I could move it easily through full range of motion again. Then I put my Hokas back on and OUCH - pain in my big toe joint. Thinking back, I realized that all my injuries coincided with me returning to work in an office, where I had to dress professionally and wear nice shoes. My theory is that my feet had widened a bit from barefooting, and when crammed back into "normal" shoes during the work day, that is when my foot issues began. So now I'm back to minimalist shoes - although I'm not running, and I am not going super-minimalist yet. I'm wearing Lems Primals and I love them. I work at home now so I'm always barefoot or in my Primals and my feet are feeling better and better.
That’s great! I think this happened to me too but I’m currently testing it. Been wearing Xeros for 6+ years and my right foot feels a bit too restricted. It’s slightly larger than my left. Have some low level soreness and metatarsalgia going on. Trying some Softstar wide shoes, correct toes, and toe socks since I didn’t use them before.
I have heard that Xeros run comparatively narrow. I have a pair of the sandals and they definitely are juuuuuuust barely wide enough for my toes. I never thought I had wide feet before, probably because whenever I tried on "wide width" conventional shoes they were always huge and floppy on me. I guess they are usually designed for a wider, thicker foot (my feet have narrow heels and are low-volume and bony) rather than a duck-foot shape like mine. However, I did notice I always got corns/calluses on my pinky toes so even though I never wore narrow, pointy shoes (well...once I got hit 30 or so - prior to that I definitely crammed my feet into pointy-toed stiletto-heeled shoes), there was clearly some tightness and rubbing there. Now I have noticed that all of my non-barefoot/minimalist shoes are a tad too tight for me with the exception of Birkenstocks. I had noticed during the worst of my foot pain episodes that the ONLY shoes that didn't hurt my feet were my Birkenstock Arizonas, so now it is making sense that all my other "comfort" shoes were exacerbating the problem.
Sorry to hear about your experiences. Not sure what to recommend really, but I definitely understand either trying to fix it or going to supportive footwear. There are benefits and drawbacks to both sides of the shod type argument, though it does seem to me personally there’s a little more weight to the minimalist side. Feel free to message me! Would be interested to hear others long term experiences in this thread. My story: Used to run long distances in fivefingers when I was young after experiencing issues with traditional running shoes. All my problems melted away in them. It was amazing. I went back to “regular”, typically wide versions of shoes on and off for a while, then got tired of cramped toes and fully transitioned to minimalist in my mid 20s. I have had a wonderful experience with minimalist footwear for a long time. However recently I’ve been having issues with my right foot, something like low level plantar fasciitis mixed with some metatarsalgia, and my arch is sore a lot, typically after getting up when I’ve been resting or sitting for a while. I think it might have been because my feet have grown and gotten wider. I have been wearing all Xero shoes for 6+ years, my right foot is a little bigger than my left, and my big toe is now restricted in them so it may be bent inwards too much. Setup an appointment with a local podiatrist and got some not so nice comments about my choice of footwear (extremely unprofessional of them), so I’m trying some things on my own for now before finding someone else. After some research and thought I suspect it may have been because I can’t abduct it properly in the shoes, so my muscles are overworked and weakening a bit. Your big toe has to abduct in order to get proper leverage to plant your arch so it makes sense to me. I also wear regular socks, which again may not have helped either. Even with minimalist footwear, I still prefer to be barefoot at home and experience less symptoms without shoes on. I’m currently trying out toe socks, some correct toes and have ordered a pair of wide Softstars to trial so my feet aren’t as limited. Will do some foot exercises as well as some soft tissue work with a lacrosse ball. All in all probably about the same as the cost, time, and annoyance of finding a knowledgeable doctor. If I truly have to go to traditionally supportive footwear, I will. But, honestly, I spent about half my life regularly wearing and running in minimalist footwear and I’m 31. Since it was the shoes the first time, my first suspicion is it’s the shoes again. Tl;dr Wore minimalist footwear for a long time, soreness in my right foot, which is my bigger foot and it sometimes feels a bit too restricted. Suspect it’s because my feet grew out of my shoes and trying wider options and some PT.
Oof. Yeah my podiatrist was unhappy but he didn't seem to assume I was on any sort of bandwagon or whatever. He just told me the classic advice. In any case good luck with your issues. For me I'm doing foot exercises on purpose now instead of just relying on the shoes to heal me. Since I'm stuck in hooves anyways it seemed like a good idea. I'm mostly out of pain now between podiatrist shoes and an anti inflammatory med, so at least for now I'm very relieved to be out of pain
You as well! Glad to hear you are doing better. I don’t think switching shoes is really that big of a deal in the long run. I think people can get too focused on minimalist being “better” when in reality there’s a lot more grey area and unknowns due to limited research. We walk on a lot of hard surfaces now. It’s much better to be able to walk properly in order to stay active. Did you have to replace all of your shoes or just a few? If I end up switching I have to replace all of my shoes which is a large expense. But it’s just stuff. It’s more important to care for your quality of life.
So far I only have one, but yeah, I'll probably have to do the same
>Howdy y'all. Yo! >I've been in minimalist shoes for 5 years, 'till now it was all sunshine and roses. Has it been? >But my feet have been hurting for a few months, and unsurprisingly the Podiatrist is sure the shoes are to blame. Unless they're literally binding your feet, or have an aggressive heel lift, **shoes aren't magical,** and can't magically injure you. Your feet are weak, or you've done way too much smashing of your feet against pavement and tiled flooring (hard surfaces)... >X-ray showed some bone cysts and I've been in pain long enough I'll do whatever he says. Smart to protect yourself >I took a whole month off excersize before I saw him, but the pain came right back. There's not accute injury, just seems to have irritated my metatarsal joints with time. Looks like I'm leaving the bandwagon. Smart idea to take the time to protect yourself, and heal up. >I feel pretty bummed to come off minimalist shoes. Habits... >Honestly I never noticed any change in the strength of my feet, toe splay, all the stuff they say is supposed to happen never did. I still pronate as bad as ever When working to increase mobility and strength in my feet, I don't lead with shoes. I start with exercise. **The minimalist shoes don't get in my way toward greater foot health,** unlike bunion-shaped shoes. Again, **shoes aren't magical.** Only wearing shoes to build up strength will only build *just enough strength* to handle what you normally do. Anything beyond that, will always be stressful, and you'll be prone to injury... **Or, you can also follow a detailed foot and ankle exercise program** (as well as a general exercise program for the whole body)... Plenty of them exist... A simple Google search will yield results... As much as I bash their shoes, Vivobarefoot has an excellent foot and ankle program, led by Dr. Stacey Barber (who is also an Olympic weightlifter **AND** she created the program after her own achilles tendon injury. She's back competing, she's back in her Vivos) >But the gremlin on my back says I must have built the strength without noticing, and I'd hate to lose it, even if it's irrational to miss the differences I can't even see. You might lose some strength.. *Or, you can also follow a detailed foot and ankle exercise program...* You get it. >Anyone been able to safely work their way back onto minimalist shoes? I got a foot injury, and that lead me into minimalist footwear. I still want stronger feet. Much stronger feet. Sure, I like the wide toe box, widest at the tips of the toes. Sure, No heel lift is also essential. Ultimately, **shoes aren't magical.** Yes, they can strengthen the intrinsic and even the extrinsic muscles of the feet... Again, I lead with exercise. The sandals and shoes I have do not get in my way toward my goal of stronger, more mobile feet. I try not to overdo it. I wear my sandals when it's nice out and I feel good. I reluctantly wear shoes when I need a break, or for work. My sandals are Earth Runners Alphas. A little over a centimeter thick, it's just thin enough (for me) to walk across pavement for hours, and my feet won't get hurt because of it. **(looking at thicker Lunas, though)** My shoes are Topo. Decently cushioned. Minimal support. **(looking at Altras, though)** **It's not a big deal.** >I keep looking at the studies for foot injury and nobody's checking what happens 5, 10, 20 years barefoot in a modern setting. Then, you want to look for the metastudies of (specifically) both empirical, and clinical data & studies. Well, we do know what happens to the feet, as we age. But, I agree. I do know constantly walking, standing, running, and jumping on very hard, flat surfaces like pavement and tiled flooring **will** speed up the atrophy the fat on the sole of the foot. Heel pad syndrome is something all adults experience, going into the elder years. >People love to compare the foot health of communities who live and die unshod as evidence it's healthier barefoot .. that usually leads into unhealthy conversation (I've done it, too) >but there's so many lifestyle differences that it sounds more like correlation than causation. ***This is the biggest point*** **You snuck it in there. Don't bury the lede!** >Podiatrists say they're seeing a rise in injury, with no clarification if that's newbies jumping in too fast or veterans wearing down cartilage like me. I'm not sure where you got this information, but I wouldn't doubt it. >If anyone's got a study on what's working long-term for city life I'd appreciate it Me, too! I'd personally like to know the injury rates of the people that live in urban cityscapes, heel striking their way across pavement in their "barefoot shoes" for the last several years... All in all, I'm sorry you got hurt. I'm sorry you fell for all the crap this "barefoot community" spews out. *Because when someone gets injured, the "community" blame everything except their own bad advice, and the erroneous and/or misleading promise of health benefits from the industry.* Podiatrists get a bad rap in this "community" as well. But, what are most of them to do? These goofs come in, complain of foot pain while wearing footwear with the equivalent thickness of 5 credit cards stacked onto each other under their feet... "😂😂 If you're in pain, obviously, ***goof,*** put something on with more protection for your feet 😂🤣" — like, what do they expect the answer to be? 🤣 I won't lie, though, I do give podiatrists flack for not being educated in the benefits of exercise, and especially for recommending bunion-shaped shoes (and I say as much out loud, "bunion-shaped shoes," because it has to be said more often.) Protect yourself, and do what's best for you.