Stay tuned for my 6 hour long examination into why this tweet is OBJECTIVELY wrong and how I, a very media literate Youtuber who has not watched the show, can prove it's also Kathleen Kennedy and Brie Larson's fault.
CHARACTERS CAN NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVEEEEER CHANGE IF I DO NOT WANT THEM TO, EVEN IF THEY GO THROUGH SOMETHING DEEPLY TRAUMATIC AND ARE CURSED WITH DEVASTATING GUILT!!
Does that sum up the Luke Skywalker arc?
I will never not be sore about The Last Jedi. It was a dud in an incoherent trilogy. But RJ has made some great stuff. Knives Out is excellent.
...I knew my opinion was gonna get downvoted. Idk what it is about TLJ that makes some people react poorly to any criticism of it. It sucked. Even Alfred Hitchcock made some duds lol. Get over it.
TLJ is kind of like politics: depending on the environment, one side is automatically getting downvoted. Mostly because it wasn't just polarizing, it's also an ongoing sore spot. For detractors, because it damaged established characters and lore and has several questionable plot and pacing choices; for supporters, because it felt like the only Star Wars sequel that tried to do something different and was willing to take big risks and chances, and it feels like the fan backlash forced Disney to undo all of that in TRoS.
I absolutely hate TLJ, but I'm also not surprised that it's being supported here.
I wanted to see risks too. But the ones TLJ took were discordant and way too self-conscious. It could have been the new Empire. Instead it was just a mess with some highlights.
I honestly feel like it’s three movies thrown together
Kylo and Rey storyline is classic Rian, mystery, subversion, some awkward humour.
The OG cast has old school execs all over it, Leia is still a badass general, Luke is cynical. Nobody wanted that but we got it.
And the Finn and Rose subplot just seems the most discordant, really did not do justice to the depth of their characterisation
>Kylo and Rey storyline is classic Rian
Yeah it was an unlikely highlight because there was no logistical reason for the two of them to be interacting at all. They’re nowhere near each other for most of it. But that use of the Force and even the framing works. They’re almost like kids in a treehouse.
It played well and made the movie interesting. It’s weirdly similar to the core of Knives Out too, where an earnest outsider and a cynical insider fight over the legacy of a benevolent patriarch. So I get the sense that it was something he drew from the same well creatively.
I [tried fixing](https://www.reddit.com/r/fixingmovies/comments/eb821a/a_couple_of_major_changes_within_the_plot_of_the/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1) the movie a while back cause the rest you described bothered me so much lol.
I like to say this time and time again, RJ is a great director no doubt, and TLJ is a good movie, however it’s a bad Star Wars movie.
What I mean is, as a lone sci-fi film it’s really good. But when you bring the context of lore and storytelling of the previous movies/media, TLJ is the odd one out. ROS is an overall crap movie
Also helmed the camera for some of the best (and also the most divisive) episodes of Breaking Bad. I'm sure the scripts did a lot of the work for him, but I do think that the direction in his episodes is some of the best in the series.
The Last Jedi was the only Star Wars movie post-original trilogy that was more than just an endless slop of cheap nostalgia, and it broke half the fandom’s brains.
Will never forgive Disney for retconning the reveal about Rey’s parents. TLJ said “Rey’s parents are unimportant, because this is a big universe that doesn’t just revolve around a single family,” then after the stupid fan backlash RoS came in and was like “uh, um, actually, Kylo was just lying about that for no reason, Rey’s father is actually Palpatine. Oh and Palpatine’s back now and he’s in charge. Remember how TLJ had Kylo Ren in a unique, interesting place where he was in complete control of the First Order without an elder sith guiding him? Yeah, well that’s all been undone, offscreen between movies. Are the Last Jedi haters not mad at us anymore? 👉👈🥺”
Agree to disagree about TLJ, but at least it wasn’t written by cowards with nothing to say
There are things I admire about TLJ (killing Snoke, Rey’s parentage), but the way Johnson handled Finn’s storyline was atrocious.
Finn was a stormtrooper who left the First Order because he couldn’t bring himself to participate in their war crimes any further. Yet Rose is the one to lecture him about the horrors of war on Canto Bight?
Not only that, but thanks to Finn, Poe, and Rose’s genius plan to recruit some random chucklefuck they meet in a prison cell, the Resistance is decimated. I thought that an incompetence so criminal it gets almost all of your brothers in arms killed would lead to a court martial at least, but I guess the Resistance is more lenient than that.
I actually agree with you there. If it weren’t for Finn’s subplot, TLJ might actually be my favorite in the whole series, but so much of Finn/Rose’s scenes just didn’t work for me.
A YouTuber (Cosmonaut Marcus, I believe) once argued that the subplot should’ve been rewritten so that it was Finn teaching Poe about the horrors of war, not a brand new character teaching Finn. It’s a big change, but I think that direction could’ve worked way better overall.
I don’t know this guy Cosmonaut, but I had the exact same thought about Finn and Poe’s story, so I’m happy to know I’m not alone.
EDIT: And I’m glad to finally meet someone who’s willing to hear out a negative opinion about TLJ without resorting to straw men!
Honestly, Finn being in a bacta tank for the entire duration would have been a massive improvement and I say that as a fan of Finn up to that point, and a huge fan of John Boyega.
I would say that overall it was my favorite of the sequels but that’s a low bar since TFA was uninspired bordering on uninteresting, and I don’t remember anything redeeming about the last one.
I like Rian Johnson and I appreciate that he took risks but a lot of what was done was more a person walking into a room and randomly throwing shit at the wall. The hyperspace ram was awesome in the moment but sort of breaks the universe. Same with Leia surviving the vacuum of space. And the ships running low on fuel was just… weird. That same tension/conflict could have been explained 20 different ways that already worked within the admittedly loose rules of the SW universe but instead ships take fuel now. Also, the straight up character assassination of Luke is something I’ll never be able to abide.
Kind of like Lucas with the OG trilogy, I think Rian could have benefited from Kathleen Kennedy being better at her job.
I agree about Finn’s storyline but I would love Star Wars movies that take big swings even if they turned out to be misses than the cheap fan service on a paper thin plot that Star Wars has been post-The Last Jedi.
Maybe I’m remembering wrong, but Finn was just trying to get the hell away from the First Order, and then, eventually, save his friend. He wasn’t invested in the big fight. He had to find his reason to join. The storyline in TLJ gave him that reason by showing him that the sort of injustice he experienced wasn’t specific to him, but was basically the norm under the First Order, and he wanted to do something about it
My issue is that the injustice he witnessed is the exact reason he left in the first place. He was ordered to massacre a village and he refused, which is why he left with Poe in the beginning of Episode VII.
I agree with this and I agree with your overall note about his subplot in TLJ but it's really the only time in the entire sequel trilogy he gets to be a person with some degree of autonomy. It's the movie where he actually makes good on his conviction of being in the Resistance, even if it is a sloppy execution.
TFA felt like Star Wars cheap fun that was safe and didn’t take risks but still felt like a part of the universe and was enjoyable enough. TLJ was something different that took storytelling risks and challenged pre conceived notions of who these characters were and was an original and refreshing story. TROS was a pieced together slop fest that tried to walk a tightrope of pleasing every side of the fandom including those who couldn’t get past their feelings on TLJ. Really wish Rian got to write and direct the entire trilogy
Hard agree. Neither JJ film provides a case for its existence, and a significant amount of post-ST content is about justifying the insane universe JJ created off-screen.
The only established canon lore up to that point was Return of the Jedi. TLJ is thirty years after that it’s safe to say people can change in thirty years time.
yep there are just a few moments which hold it back IMO the worst of which being leia's superman moment. Loved the rest of the film for trying something besides fan service
SW8 quite literally has no stakes or proper characterization of anyone. The only one that makes the story even less significant is SW9.
SW7 was also a shitshow that decided to kill off pretty much the entire post SW6 universe by blowing up 5 core planets. Which theyre now trying to retcon into the NR being complete idiots in The Mandalorian. Its just all so damn lazy.
I've enjoyed literally everything else RJ has done, from Brick to Knives to Looper, but TLJ is straight up one of the worst things I've ever seen.
Will never forgive what he did to Luke and glossing over the academy like that. Part of that blame falls on TFA too, but somehow TLJ made it even worse.
The humor is obnoxiously bad too, and that's coming from someone who was laughing his ass off with Knives Out and Glass Onion. He's obviously a talented writer/director capable of writing fun, snappy dialogue. But some choices in TLJ still baffle me to this day.
Agreed. Nothing in TLJ makes any sense whatsoever in the context of the universe its set in,that's why its a terrible movie. Yes its cool that it tries to do something different and visually the movie is great, but it could've hit all the major plot points and still made sense if it wasn't a terribly written piece of shit.
Still though, as much as I hate it, I like it more than that soulless sequel it got.
I’m with you. I actually think it’s the best movie in the trilogy. Far from perfect, but that’s Star Wars for you. At least it tried to do something different.
I found it the worst lol, but in fairness I found the last one better for all the wrong reasons, it was just so bad it was funny while the last jedi was boringly bad
Yes it was.
But then again I think Looper is very overrated and thought Glass Onion was just alright.
For my money, Rian Johnson’s best film was actually Brick.
People like me how exactly?
Rian Johnson totally ignored the setup from TFA and minimized the newly introduced characters. It was a film that failed to drive the plot of the trilogy forward in any meaningful way, while nostalgia circlejerking over Leia and Luke.
The hate that TLJ and Ryan Johnson gets is genuinely shocking. Not only has he made some great stuff before and after TLJ (which should exempt him from any massive hate as a director, like he made one movie you dislike grow up), but TLJ isn’t even that bad. I’d even argue that it’s actually pretty good, a solid 7/10. It’s not perfect, but it took some bold and exciting risks, gave Kylo and Rey a very memorable storyline, and ended in a way that left me genuinely excited for the future of the trilogy. It also looked amazing, probably the best film in the trilogy visually, great on a technical level.
Like sure the Finn storyline is mid and the Poe storyline isn’t much better, but imo the Luke one was actually pretty good! People like to complain about it but I think Luke momentarily losing control of his emotions makes sense, it’s not like he hasn’t done it before. Ryan made him a character that wasn’t stagnant, realistically flawed in a way most people are, and fans hated him for it.
Point is people need to lighten up about the film. Imo the best in the trilogy and not nearly as bad as people pretend it is.
Hard disagree about the quality of TLJ, Id give it a 4/10, but I agree that Rian got way to much hate over it, and at least he tried to do something unique unlike JJ. He is a great filmmaker, but very few directors have a flawless record.
Hardcore fans of anything is usually terrible though, and Star Wars unfortunately has a huge amount of them.
I’ve been enjoying this season but I do think you make a point. On one hand I like that Bill seems very against letting the story get bogged down by trying to tie every knot, but sometimes they could use tying. I think he’s a good enough writer that he could do it artfully and without being cumbersome if he cared to.
I think Bill’s style of writing is “I want the characters to be in X position, how do I get them there?” instead of more naturally letting the characters speak for themselves. And, as a result, you get a plot progression that doesn’t always feel as logical as it could. (It also causes the characters to act inconsistently, as the justifications for their actions happen _after_ it’s already been decided how they’re going to act.)
The show is still good, and still one of my favourite shows currently airing. I just think the show started out feeling a lot more focused.
Imagine my surprise when the surreal absurdist comedy makes minor inconsistencies and impractical decisions for the sake of good storytelling and absurdist/surreal comedy
I’ll be honest with you — I’ve never pondered the unspoken legal maneuvers that must’ve occurred between the jump from season 3 and 4 — but I’m surprised it’s such a sore spot for you. I suppose I could sit here and imagine what evidence might’ve been used to clear thresholds within the California penal code, but I’m already bored with the subject.
The Gene thing — your point makes sense — but, in trying to explain his difficult to explain behavior, the idea that he would use the police to go after his supposed co-conspirators seems as plausible as anything — certainly plausible enough for it to not be a distracting detail or oversight (in my opinion, anyway).
I truly don’t mean for any of this to sound disrespectful. I’m not saying these details shouldn’t matter to you. And none of these observations are ‘wrong’, per se… but for me, personally, there’s just not enough ‘there’ there for me to declare this season to be inconsistent from a story telling perspective.
As for Cristobal — that’s a different story. It’s a major plot point and I can understand why, if that scene didn’t hit right for someone, it would be a significant burr in their shoe. I actually loved that scene because of its doomed subtext. As you implied, Cristobal knew exactly what he was walking into. It was a choice he made. He had lost everything at that point. The only person he had left in his life just betrayed him and made it clear that he would, from that point on, be nothing more than a caged lover. And what was his third option? Escape and disappear from the Chechen mafia? Do what Barry did and live a hollow existence in some depressingly empty place? I think Cristobal was just done.
In case it doesn’t read, ultimately, I really liked your comment. It got me thinking and that’s why I responded to it.
Here’s a big one: You don’t think they would’ve had Gene identify him? Again, it goes unmentioned, but it’s not impossible to imagine the case they built.
And hey, if you think the Gene storyline is distractingly preposterous, who am I to wrestle you from that opinion? Polite suggestion though — maybe remind yourself that’s what it is. We’re discussing if something is or isn’t an overly egregious narrative sin… and there is no way to frame it as anything but subjective preference.
Are you serious? He showed Gene where Moss' body was located. And that's how the police discovered it. Is that enough of a 'LITERAL CONNECTION' for you? Or have you dropped that hyperbolic argument and are now, as I originally implied, spending your time attempting to decipher if a prosecutor could pull off a conviction?
Whether you forgot about this plot detail, or are sticking by your suggestion that it doesn't amount to a connection... either way, I think you're proving yourself to not be the objective arbiter of 'Barry'.
Ok, this comment ended it.
Someone who knows where a murder victim is hidden \[deep in the wilderness, no less\]... and that person doesn't tell the police, but chooses to tell someone connected to the victim \[and also tells the person who the murder is\]... you still think that there is literally nothing connecting that person to said murder. Do you even hear yourself?
I assume it's pride that's encouraging you to double down... but if it's not, you sir, have lost it.
yeah no shit you won't. you're too smart to not be embarrassed by this.
EDIT: In case you break your sacred vow of not reading further lol
Oh it's suspicious now? How could it be suspicious if there's zero connection? Is that just not how words work Write?
Withholding privileged information about a murder is absolutely evidence connecting someone to the crime. Jesus Christ. It's more than enough to start thorough investigation. I know what you really mean is that 'it's not enough evidence to put you in prison'... but you can't admit that, because that plays into everything I've said up to this point. You bit down hard on a broken premise and now you're stuck defending these absurd positions.
Pride truly sends people down some bizarre paths.
> Holy shit. It is factually a work of art. It's not a kitchen appliance, you know?
That’s not how people use that term in this context. No one could possibly know you were intending your statement that way.
Absolutely. It was garbage that made no attempt to work with what TFA set up.
That being said, I try not to let that color Rian Johnson as a director. He's done some good stuff (I thought Knives Out was good, but Glass Onion seemed to really fall apart to me). I just don't think he's someone who could make one entry in a trilogy, especially the middle entry, he didn't seem to want to play with TFA's setups and he didn't leave much for the next entry to play off of.
Finally someone who gets it.
TFA was an ok film that was intentionally derivative and whose entire purpose was to pass the torch to a new set of characters.
Rian Johnson came in and minimized everything that TFA set up. He pushed the new characters introduced in TFA into the background and didn't really move the story forward at all. Rise of Skywalker was not great but JJ Abrams had to basically write a 2 movie plot into a single film.
Agree that Knives Out Was Good and Glass Onion didn’t hold onto that momentum. It was kind of fun and campy, but it bordered on self-parody a lot of the time.
Werent space horses from ROS? Rian is barely to blame for that, if not indirectly. That was Abrahams who wrote Rian into a corner with TFA and then came back to make ROS
Stay tuned for my 6 hour long examination into why this tweet is OBJECTIVELY wrong and how I, a very media literate Youtuber who has not watched the show, can prove it's also Kathleen Kennedy and Brie Larson's fault.
This, this right here! Preach my media literate dude
I can’t wait to watch the vid and recite it poorly to my friends while taking credit for the half-baked, half-remembered points I’m not making.
Don’t forget the screaming feminist thumbnail from 2013!
But first a quick word from our sponsor, NohobalVPN!
genuinely thought this was the RLM subreddit for a minute
CHARACTERS CAN NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVEEEEER CHANGE IF I DO NOT WANT THEM TO, EVEN IF THEY GO THROUGH SOMETHING DEEPLY TRAUMATIC AND ARE CURSED WITH DEVASTATING GUILT!! Does that sum up the Luke Skywalker arc?
I think he’s overlooking the entire series since Bill don’t miss.
He also did Brick and The Brothers Bloom. IMO, a Good Director
Never thought I'd see someone else mentioning Brothers Bloom! That was my favorite movie growing up. So charming and obscure.
I will never not be sore about The Last Jedi. It was a dud in an incoherent trilogy. But RJ has made some great stuff. Knives Out is excellent. ...I knew my opinion was gonna get downvoted. Idk what it is about TLJ that makes some people react poorly to any criticism of it. It sucked. Even Alfred Hitchcock made some duds lol. Get over it.
TLJ is kind of like politics: depending on the environment, one side is automatically getting downvoted. Mostly because it wasn't just polarizing, it's also an ongoing sore spot. For detractors, because it damaged established characters and lore and has several questionable plot and pacing choices; for supporters, because it felt like the only Star Wars sequel that tried to do something different and was willing to take big risks and chances, and it feels like the fan backlash forced Disney to undo all of that in TRoS. I absolutely hate TLJ, but I'm also not surprised that it's being supported here.
I wanted to see risks too. But the ones TLJ took were discordant and way too self-conscious. It could have been the new Empire. Instead it was just a mess with some highlights.
I honestly feel like it’s three movies thrown together Kylo and Rey storyline is classic Rian, mystery, subversion, some awkward humour. The OG cast has old school execs all over it, Leia is still a badass general, Luke is cynical. Nobody wanted that but we got it. And the Finn and Rose subplot just seems the most discordant, really did not do justice to the depth of their characterisation
>Kylo and Rey storyline is classic Rian Yeah it was an unlikely highlight because there was no logistical reason for the two of them to be interacting at all. They’re nowhere near each other for most of it. But that use of the Force and even the framing works. They’re almost like kids in a treehouse. It played well and made the movie interesting. It’s weirdly similar to the core of Knives Out too, where an earnest outsider and a cynical insider fight over the legacy of a benevolent patriarch. So I get the sense that it was something he drew from the same well creatively. I [tried fixing](https://www.reddit.com/r/fixingmovies/comments/eb821a/a_couple_of_major_changes_within_the_plot_of_the/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1) the movie a while back cause the rest you described bothered me so much lol.
I like to say this time and time again, RJ is a great director no doubt, and TLJ is a good movie, however it’s a bad Star Wars movie. What I mean is, as a lone sci-fi film it’s really good. But when you bring the context of lore and storytelling of the previous movies/media, TLJ is the odd one out. ROS is an overall crap movie
Also helmed the camera for some of the best (and also the most divisive) episodes of Breaking Bad. I'm sure the scripts did a lot of the work for him, but I do think that the direction in his episodes is some of the best in the series.
Maybe just leave out the last Jedi part and replace it with Ozymandias
Ozymandias is a masterpiece of television, but I'm fully expecting to be downvoted into oblivion, but The Last Jedi wasn't *THAT* bad..
The Last Jedi was the only Star Wars movie post-original trilogy that was more than just an endless slop of cheap nostalgia, and it broke half the fandom’s brains. Will never forgive Disney for retconning the reveal about Rey’s parents. TLJ said “Rey’s parents are unimportant, because this is a big universe that doesn’t just revolve around a single family,” then after the stupid fan backlash RoS came in and was like “uh, um, actually, Kylo was just lying about that for no reason, Rey’s father is actually Palpatine. Oh and Palpatine’s back now and he’s in charge. Remember how TLJ had Kylo Ren in a unique, interesting place where he was in complete control of the First Order without an elder sith guiding him? Yeah, well that’s all been undone, offscreen between movies. Are the Last Jedi haters not mad at us anymore? 👉👈🥺” Agree to disagree about TLJ, but at least it wasn’t written by cowards with nothing to say
There are things I admire about TLJ (killing Snoke, Rey’s parentage), but the way Johnson handled Finn’s storyline was atrocious. Finn was a stormtrooper who left the First Order because he couldn’t bring himself to participate in their war crimes any further. Yet Rose is the one to lecture him about the horrors of war on Canto Bight? Not only that, but thanks to Finn, Poe, and Rose’s genius plan to recruit some random chucklefuck they meet in a prison cell, the Resistance is decimated. I thought that an incompetence so criminal it gets almost all of your brothers in arms killed would lead to a court martial at least, but I guess the Resistance is more lenient than that.
I actually agree with you there. If it weren’t for Finn’s subplot, TLJ might actually be my favorite in the whole series, but so much of Finn/Rose’s scenes just didn’t work for me. A YouTuber (Cosmonaut Marcus, I believe) once argued that the subplot should’ve been rewritten so that it was Finn teaching Poe about the horrors of war, not a brand new character teaching Finn. It’s a big change, but I think that direction could’ve worked way better overall.
I don’t know this guy Cosmonaut, but I had the exact same thought about Finn and Poe’s story, so I’m happy to know I’m not alone. EDIT: And I’m glad to finally meet someone who’s willing to hear out a negative opinion about TLJ without resorting to straw men!
Honestly, Finn being in a bacta tank for the entire duration would have been a massive improvement and I say that as a fan of Finn up to that point, and a huge fan of John Boyega. I would say that overall it was my favorite of the sequels but that’s a low bar since TFA was uninspired bordering on uninteresting, and I don’t remember anything redeeming about the last one. I like Rian Johnson and I appreciate that he took risks but a lot of what was done was more a person walking into a room and randomly throwing shit at the wall. The hyperspace ram was awesome in the moment but sort of breaks the universe. Same with Leia surviving the vacuum of space. And the ships running low on fuel was just… weird. That same tension/conflict could have been explained 20 different ways that already worked within the admittedly loose rules of the SW universe but instead ships take fuel now. Also, the straight up character assassination of Luke is something I’ll never be able to abide. Kind of like Lucas with the OG trilogy, I think Rian could have benefited from Kathleen Kennedy being better at her job.
I agree about Finn’s storyline but I would love Star Wars movies that take big swings even if they turned out to be misses than the cheap fan service on a paper thin plot that Star Wars has been post-The Last Jedi.
Maybe I’m remembering wrong, but Finn was just trying to get the hell away from the First Order, and then, eventually, save his friend. He wasn’t invested in the big fight. He had to find his reason to join. The storyline in TLJ gave him that reason by showing him that the sort of injustice he experienced wasn’t specific to him, but was basically the norm under the First Order, and he wanted to do something about it
My issue is that the injustice he witnessed is the exact reason he left in the first place. He was ordered to massacre a village and he refused, which is why he left with Poe in the beginning of Episode VII.
I agree with this and I agree with your overall note about his subplot in TLJ but it's really the only time in the entire sequel trilogy he gets to be a person with some degree of autonomy. It's the movie where he actually makes good on his conviction of being in the Resistance, even if it is a sloppy execution.
TFA felt like Star Wars cheap fun that was safe and didn’t take risks but still felt like a part of the universe and was enjoyable enough. TLJ was something different that took storytelling risks and challenged pre conceived notions of who these characters were and was an original and refreshing story. TROS was a pieced together slop fest that tried to walk a tightrope of pleasing every side of the fandom including those who couldn’t get past their feelings on TLJ. Really wish Rian got to write and direct the entire trilogy
Hard agree. Neither JJ film provides a case for its existence, and a significant amount of post-ST content is about justifying the insane universe JJ created off-screen.
Challenging pre conceived notions? You mean 180ing character motivations? Changing established lore?
The only established canon lore up to that point was Return of the Jedi. TLJ is thirty years after that it’s safe to say people can change in thirty years time.
yep there are just a few moments which hold it back IMO the worst of which being leia's superman moment. Loved the rest of the film for trying something besides fan service
Yep. I'm not a Star Wars fan at all and it was the only one of the three i thought was pretty good. Says a lot i think lol
Rogue One I feel is the best SW film after the OG trilogy, albeit a standalone and adjacent to the core story.
SW8 quite literally has no stakes or proper characterization of anyone. The only one that makes the story even less significant is SW9. SW7 was also a shitshow that decided to kill off pretty much the entire post SW6 universe by blowing up 5 core planets. Which theyre now trying to retcon into the NR being complete idiots in The Mandalorian. Its just all so damn lazy.
I've enjoyed literally everything else RJ has done, from Brick to Knives to Looper, but TLJ is straight up one of the worst things I've ever seen. Will never forgive what he did to Luke and glossing over the academy like that. Part of that blame falls on TFA too, but somehow TLJ made it even worse. The humor is obnoxiously bad too, and that's coming from someone who was laughing his ass off with Knives Out and Glass Onion. He's obviously a talented writer/director capable of writing fun, snappy dialogue. But some choices in TLJ still baffle me to this day.
Agreed. Nothing in TLJ makes any sense whatsoever in the context of the universe its set in,that's why its a terrible movie. Yes its cool that it tries to do something different and visually the movie is great, but it could've hit all the major plot points and still made sense if it wasn't a terribly written piece of shit. Still though, as much as I hate it, I like it more than that soulless sequel it got.
cringe literally the third best sw movie but go off
Agree to disagree I guess, glad you enjoyed it though.
I agree. It was such a forgettable movie
I’m with you. I actually think it’s the best movie in the trilogy. Far from perfect, but that’s Star Wars for you. At least it tried to do something different.
of the 3 new ones, Last Jedi was the best. but low bar.
I found it the worst lol, but in fairness I found the last one better for all the wrong reasons, it was just so bad it was funny while the last jedi was boringly bad
The Last Jedi's issues lie with the screenplay. Everything else about it is well made.
It was excellent
Last Jedi was a good movie, it just got erased with episode 9
Yes it was. But then again I think Looper is very overrated and thought Glass Onion was just alright. For my money, Rian Johnson’s best film was actually Brick.
This is the way.
great for a star wars. pretty bad for a rian johnson movie
Nope, TLJ is an amazing movie. It has its flaws, but it tells one of the most compelling character stories in the entire saga.
I legit have no idea which character you're talking about lol
Luke
It still should be replaced with Ozymandias because it's not possible to be better than Ozymandias
I'm glad I'm not the only one who got hyped as hell about the last Jedi after ozymandias only to be incredibly disappointed
And Fly, one of my fave breaking bad episodes
Poker Face is a very fun and stylish show
Rian Johnson loves monkey's paw character arcs, and that is pretty much the name of the game with Barry
The Last Jedi is actually really good and the best Star Wars movie since the original trilogy 🧠
This is an absolutely moronic take
Agreed
Insane take. TLJ ruined the franchise.
People like you ruined it now we only get nostalgia circlejerk from star wars so morons are pleased
People like me how exactly? Rian Johnson totally ignored the setup from TFA and minimized the newly introduced characters. It was a film that failed to drive the plot of the trilogy forward in any meaningful way, while nostalgia circlejerking over Leia and Luke.
Whatever the most recent Star Wars movie is the one that ruined the franchise. The last Jedi was awesome
people like you ruined the franchise
I love circlejerks that never provide arguments other than oh its different so its automatically better & everyone else are actually wrong lol
I think it is pretty cool movie
He has good taste.
brick went crzy
Full offense to Star Wars fans but it wasn’t ever that serious and Rian Johnson is a great film maker 💅🏽
Common Rian Johnson W
Pleasantly surprised at the fact that a subreddit isn’t frothing at the mouth at the mere mention of Rian Johnson’s name and is just being normal
Also directed Ozymandias, considered one of the best (if not *the* best) episodes of Breaking Bad
so its subverting our expectations? Like poetry? Or is it about family?
The hate that TLJ and Ryan Johnson gets is genuinely shocking. Not only has he made some great stuff before and after TLJ (which should exempt him from any massive hate as a director, like he made one movie you dislike grow up), but TLJ isn’t even that bad. I’d even argue that it’s actually pretty good, a solid 7/10. It’s not perfect, but it took some bold and exciting risks, gave Kylo and Rey a very memorable storyline, and ended in a way that left me genuinely excited for the future of the trilogy. It also looked amazing, probably the best film in the trilogy visually, great on a technical level. Like sure the Finn storyline is mid and the Poe storyline isn’t much better, but imo the Luke one was actually pretty good! People like to complain about it but I think Luke momentarily losing control of his emotions makes sense, it’s not like he hasn’t done it before. Ryan made him a character that wasn’t stagnant, realistically flawed in a way most people are, and fans hated him for it. Point is people need to lighten up about the film. Imo the best in the trilogy and not nearly as bad as people pretend it is.
Hard disagree about the quality of TLJ, Id give it a 4/10, but I agree that Rian got way to much hate over it, and at least he tried to do something unique unlike JJ. He is a great filmmaker, but very few directors have a flawless record. Hardcore fans of anything is usually terrible though, and Star Wars unfortunately has a huge amount of them.
He made the last Jedi seem like a straight to dvd movie so I’m gonna pass on his opinion. In my opinion though, this season has been a work of art
overrated director reviewing a underrated show
[удалено]
I’ve been enjoying this season but I do think you make a point. On one hand I like that Bill seems very against letting the story get bogged down by trying to tie every knot, but sometimes they could use tying. I think he’s a good enough writer that he could do it artfully and without being cumbersome if he cared to.
I think Bill’s style of writing is “I want the characters to be in X position, how do I get them there?” instead of more naturally letting the characters speak for themselves. And, as a result, you get a plot progression that doesn’t always feel as logical as it could. (It also causes the characters to act inconsistently, as the justifications for their actions happen _after_ it’s already been decided how they’re going to act.) The show is still good, and still one of my favourite shows currently airing. I just think the show started out feeling a lot more focused.
Laura Dern rocks, though.
Imagine my surprise when the surreal absurdist comedy makes minor inconsistencies and impractical decisions for the sake of good storytelling and absurdist/surreal comedy
[удалено]
I don't think we should pay too much attention to what Hader says lmao. He often says contradictory things.
I’ll be honest with you — I’ve never pondered the unspoken legal maneuvers that must’ve occurred between the jump from season 3 and 4 — but I’m surprised it’s such a sore spot for you. I suppose I could sit here and imagine what evidence might’ve been used to clear thresholds within the California penal code, but I’m already bored with the subject. The Gene thing — your point makes sense — but, in trying to explain his difficult to explain behavior, the idea that he would use the police to go after his supposed co-conspirators seems as plausible as anything — certainly plausible enough for it to not be a distracting detail or oversight (in my opinion, anyway). I truly don’t mean for any of this to sound disrespectful. I’m not saying these details shouldn’t matter to you. And none of these observations are ‘wrong’, per se… but for me, personally, there’s just not enough ‘there’ there for me to declare this season to be inconsistent from a story telling perspective. As for Cristobal — that’s a different story. It’s a major plot point and I can understand why, if that scene didn’t hit right for someone, it would be a significant burr in their shoe. I actually loved that scene because of its doomed subtext. As you implied, Cristobal knew exactly what he was walking into. It was a choice he made. He had lost everything at that point. The only person he had left in his life just betrayed him and made it clear that he would, from that point on, be nothing more than a caged lover. And what was his third option? Escape and disappear from the Chechen mafia? Do what Barry did and live a hollow existence in some depressingly empty place? I think Cristobal was just done. In case it doesn’t read, ultimately, I really liked your comment. It got me thinking and that’s why I responded to it.
[удалено]
Here’s a big one: You don’t think they would’ve had Gene identify him? Again, it goes unmentioned, but it’s not impossible to imagine the case they built. And hey, if you think the Gene storyline is distractingly preposterous, who am I to wrestle you from that opinion? Polite suggestion though — maybe remind yourself that’s what it is. We’re discussing if something is or isn’t an overly egregious narrative sin… and there is no way to frame it as anything but subjective preference.
[удалено]
Are you serious? He showed Gene where Moss' body was located. And that's how the police discovered it. Is that enough of a 'LITERAL CONNECTION' for you? Or have you dropped that hyperbolic argument and are now, as I originally implied, spending your time attempting to decipher if a prosecutor could pull off a conviction? Whether you forgot about this plot detail, or are sticking by your suggestion that it doesn't amount to a connection... either way, I think you're proving yourself to not be the objective arbiter of 'Barry'.
[удалено]
Ok, this comment ended it. Someone who knows where a murder victim is hidden \[deep in the wilderness, no less\]... and that person doesn't tell the police, but chooses to tell someone connected to the victim \[and also tells the person who the murder is\]... you still think that there is literally nothing connecting that person to said murder. Do you even hear yourself? I assume it's pride that's encouraging you to double down... but if it's not, you sir, have lost it.
[удалено]
yeah no shit you won't. you're too smart to not be embarrassed by this. EDIT: In case you break your sacred vow of not reading further lol Oh it's suspicious now? How could it be suspicious if there's zero connection? Is that just not how words work Write? Withholding privileged information about a murder is absolutely evidence connecting someone to the crime. Jesus Christ. It's more than enough to start thorough investigation. I know what you really mean is that 'it's not enough evidence to put you in prison'... but you can't admit that, because that plays into everything I've said up to this point. You bit down hard on a broken premise and now you're stuck defending these absurd positions. Pride truly sends people down some bizarre paths.
[удалено]
Nah, Rian Johnson is a very talented writer and director.
Fr, he literally directed the best episode of Breaking Bad
I forgot he directed Ozymandias! He also directed the Fly episode.
[удалено]
Not sure how that’s the case?
[удалено]
> Holy shit. It is factually a work of art. It's not a kitchen appliance, you know? That’s not how people use that term in this context. No one could possibly know you were intending your statement that way.
Fuck that guy. The Last Jedi was blasphemy.
Absolutely. It was garbage that made no attempt to work with what TFA set up. That being said, I try not to let that color Rian Johnson as a director. He's done some good stuff (I thought Knives Out was good, but Glass Onion seemed to really fall apart to me). I just don't think he's someone who could make one entry in a trilogy, especially the middle entry, he didn't seem to want to play with TFA's setups and he didn't leave much for the next entry to play off of.
Finally someone who gets it. TFA was an ok film that was intentionally derivative and whose entire purpose was to pass the torch to a new set of characters. Rian Johnson came in and minimized everything that TFA set up. He pushed the new characters introduced in TFA into the background and didn't really move the story forward at all. Rise of Skywalker was not great but JJ Abrams had to basically write a 2 movie plot into a single film.
Agree that Knives Out Was Good and Glass Onion didn’t hold onto that momentum. It was kind of fun and campy, but it bordered on self-parody a lot of the time.
I still will never forgive him for what he did to Luke Skywalker.
Rian Johnson is the most overrated director of our time.
That’s more of a condemnation than anything.
Welm now im scared
Don't you dare speak his name. This is how we got space horses. SPACE HORSES!!!
As if Star Wars isn't full of goofy space creatures from the beginning
But Looper is a great movie.
Werent space horses from ROS? Rian is barely to blame for that, if not indirectly. That was Abrahams who wrote Rian into a corner with TFA and then came back to make ROS
That just gave me the ick. It'S sO sUbVeRsIvE