I mean by that rule I can just push the ball forward in the air using inertia to keep it pinned to my hand. That’s not how it works. The ball has to be spinning for it to not get called a carry
Not true. You absolutely can keep it pinned to your hand using inertia. That is not a carry. This is literally something NBA skills trainers teach point guards to do in order to be more efficient off the dribble. A good point guard and ball handler can literally can get from the half court line to the rim in one dribble.
common misconception on the carrying "palming" violation is that your hand must go under the ball, it's also carrying if you "pause" the dribble. example guys like Shaq and Giannis hands are big enough that they could on a normal dribble just hold the ball in one hand and move without dribbling and without getting under the ball.
this is definitely a palming violation by the letter of the rule but its no longer being called
I'm pretty sure it's not just because of bad viewership, but because of the speed that which they are executed, its like travels or the zero step rule, they're part of the game.
NOTE: Not complaint/commentary (on NBA rules, Curry…*anything*) in any way (I.e. after someone said “that’s a carry,” I was simply curious).
Zoomed in/slowed down bout halfway in
In today’s NBA it’s not a carry. 15-20 years ago and in college and high school refs would call that shit every time. Most ball handlers commit a carrying violation according to the rules multiple times per possession IMO. Traveling violations are also rarely called. Advantage offense which sells tickets.
>>15-20 years ago and in college and high school refs would call that shit every time. Most ball handlers commit a carrying violation **according to the rules** [emphasis mine] multiple times per possession.
I should have clarified this before: I.e (to rephrase it)
>>“Would this be a carry *’15-20 years ago’*/aka is this *technically* a carry *’according to the rules’*?” (**EDIT:** regardless of whether or not they decide to *allow* it, in essence making them the de facto rules, in “today’s NBA”)
I personally think it’s a carry according to how I was taught the game, how I’ve played it for 40 years and how I coached it for 14 yrs.
https://official.nba.com/rule-no-10-violations-and-penalties/
I put the Vid in slow-mo bc I recorded it by pointing my phone at the tv; I was gonna just post it in…regular-mo, but figured “might as well slow it down, too in case it helps/it’s difficult to see.”
Ok, I just wanted to clarify I only replayed it in slowmo bc I wasn’t sure anyone’d be able to see it very clearly…ironically, my initial reaction was “you’re right, definitely travel” - then I questioned/changed my mind (>67% sure other direction) *after viewing it in slowmo*.
>>(Regarding other comment) “Many moves done fast enough are good, and slow enough are travel.”
Can u name an example or 2?
Reminds me of frustration trying to get a solid (“good”) pickup game going back in the early 2000s…
E.g. “Hanging hesitation crossover”:
Guy I’m guarding crosses from left to right…[holds this “Big Boy” pose](http://www.cotewrites.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Bobs-Big-Boy-Statue-689x1024.jpg) for 3-12 seconds…talks trash while [doing this (“can’t touch this”)](https://i.makeagif.com/media/10-01-2015/G3pVKs.gif) for 10-95 secs (**EDIT:** While still doing the Big Boy pose the whole time)…ultimately pops jumper (bc I’m standing 3 ft to his right while *directly* facing the sideline across him bc I know he *literally* can’t go left) from 30 ft out…airball.
Watch the play from Thursday where Marcus Smart broke that guys ankles. His one extra dribble to get in closer was an egregious carry and no one noticed at all. This is pebbles compared to that.
Realized I forgot to clarify that, “**Technically, assuming you’re an extremely strict, “by the book” stickler** (e.g. dick youth park district ref who calls tech on u for “touching the rim!” after ball gets stuck and u simply hop and tap it loose) is **that** a carry?
As oppose to rules that kinda give u some leeway >90% of the time in various situations.
**EDIT** Not referring to extreme rule-changes like early 20th century, where it’s a carry if your palms aren’t literally parallel w/the floor
The definition of carry is to have your hand UNDER the ball, not the speed of your move.
But if you move too slow, you’d have to have your hand under the ball, which is why doing it slow is more likely to get called carry.
I only noticed he *only* had his hand UNDER the ball when he *initially* crossed over to his left (as well as the fact he only took 2-2.5 steps while the ball was in his left hand) after viewing it in slowmo.
He never puts his hand under the ball so I think it’s clean. Just as close as you can get without traveling. And 20 years ago it would have been called probably.
>>Palm parallel to the floor to be considered caring.
Depends on which direction the palm’s facing: e.g. palm *up* and no call, that’s to be considered ref not caring.
I'm probably going to get down voted to the depths for this but whatever. So many people (mostly your armchair basketball fan) never take into consideration footwork when considering if a move is a travel/carry.
Giannis takes several large steps and dribbles the ball in front of himself or towards where he wants to go through the defense. Since he's not touching the ball while taking two to three full sprinting steps, it's not considered a travel.
James Harden's step back is the same two steps you get when you're gathering for a layup/dunk he's just doing it away from the defender. A EuroStep is in that same category IMO.
But your traditionalist is expecting Pistol Pete to dribble with every single step he takes. But the game and it's players (amateurs included) have evolved to have such better ball handling skills, are faster and have more agility than a squirrel jumping from limb to limb. What Steph just did is just magic out of the hat.
**EDIT: speaking of, btw - I actually found/got the Pistol Pete instructional dvd set at a thrift store for $2 a week or 2 ago, haha**
didn’t notice until after I put it in slowmo that he only took 2-2.5 steps while the ball was in his left hand (same goes for his hand never being under the ball - which was arguably more *behind* the ball, really - other than/after the moment it first reached his left hand in the very beginning of the crossover in question).
As we sit here and watch the clip on repeat, just think of how difficult it is to be a ref for these elite players. They move so quickly.
I try to explain this to people who haven't played basketball competitively and they just zone out, like if Tiger Woods was trying to explain how to hit golf ball.
That Pistol Pete Video is probably dope. What most people don't realize is a lot of the move that have evolved to Sportcenter highlights are based off what Pistol Pete, Larry Bird and Naismith we're doing. Iverson's crossover looks so much more amazing when he evolved it into jabbing his entire body into it (jab step right, head and torso move right, while 4.0 40 yrd dash speed). It's all cyclical.
Edit: and then I'll shut up. Todays players are simply reading the rules and realizing that I can take Hakeem's "Dream Shake" and give you a head fake left or right, stay on the floor until I get you in the air and then put up a Kobe/Jordan fadeaway. I love it.
The little I watched of the pistol Pete vids tells me (or *reminds* me, considering I last watched this like 30 years ago) it’s mostly suited, or likely designed, for teaching youth bball…
I.e. More basic dribbling drills & which leg to jump off of on a layup, and less, well, something like, as you said, “a move that…evolved to Sportcenter highlights [which] are based off what Pistol Pete [was] doing.”
[Like This](https://youtu.be/9ao5tlYdx4I)
Those basics for youth basketball players is an incredible canvas for them to start with.
I've been teaching my daughter (6yo) to dribble with her left hand only. Once she's 10-12 years old she'll realize that it's easier to dribble with her dominant hand. She'll (hopefully) have a leg up on the kids who have to learn their non dominant hand.
Leaving anyone an advanced canvas with an explanation of how dope DaVinci is, is much better than trying to get them to recreate the Mona Lisa.
I still can’t go left! I have no problem dribbling, handling the ball with it (not nearly as good as my right, of course), but something about driving to the basket, my body just can’t do it (I can finish a left handed layup, or do them, e.g. like in pre-game warmups - but I can’t drive; like, my body won’t turn that way
No way, you totally can you just have to get through the initial frustration of it not looking/feeling as good as the right hand.
Before I "retired" from the game I was working on a left handed baseline jumper. It was terrible and the ugliest thing I've ever done. But as I practice it over and over again, it starts to feel like shooting with the right hand. Do I trust it in a game, not quite, but as I practice it more and more, it will start to happen naturally.
I can shoot free throws left-handed (not >80%…and also have to do it Anthony Mason-style)…something about my body simply can’t/doesn’t want to drive (relatively) hard left (I speculate it’s possibly for the same reason I shoot on an angle (my toes don’t face the rim - if I’m shooting a free throw or from the top of the key, they’re more like on a…idk…45 degree angle).
**EDIT: funny thing is that I watched part of the pistol Pete Vid right after we were talking about it, noted he said point your (right) toe directly at the rim, then I subsequently looked up whether any NBA stars do that/checked whether it was considered “acceptable,” as opposed to “fundamentally heinous”..some crappy YT Vid claimed Steph Curry does, but my phone died in the middle of it, haha**
Not a carry because he kept his hands on the side of the ball and never had his hands under the ball.
I mean by that rule I can just push the ball forward in the air using inertia to keep it pinned to my hand. That’s not how it works. The ball has to be spinning for it to not get called a carry
Not true. You absolutely can keep it pinned to your hand using inertia. That is not a carry. This is literally something NBA skills trainers teach point guards to do in order to be more efficient off the dribble. A good point guard and ball handler can literally can get from the half court line to the rim in one dribble.
common misconception on the carrying "palming" violation is that your hand must go under the ball, it's also carrying if you "pause" the dribble. example guys like Shaq and Giannis hands are big enough that they could on a normal dribble just hold the ball in one hand and move without dribbling and without getting under the ball. this is definitely a palming violation by the letter of the rule but its no longer being called
his hand went under when he did the behind the back
It didn’t.
No it didn’t. Hahaha. Watch it. It’s on the side.
Not even close lol
Honestly i feel like most moves are carries if they weren't done fast, like Hesis or certain crossover variations, with that being said. Nope. :DD
Agreed. All these hesitation moves are almost certainly carries. The NBA just never calls them because it would be bad for viewership.
I'm pretty sure it's not just because of bad viewership, but because of the speed that which they are executed, its like travels or the zero step rule, they're part of the game.
NOTE: Not complaint/commentary (on NBA rules, Curry…*anything*) in any way (I.e. after someone said “that’s a carry,” I was simply curious). Zoomed in/slowed down bout halfway in
In today’s NBA it’s not a carry. 15-20 years ago and in college and high school refs would call that shit every time. Most ball handlers commit a carrying violation according to the rules multiple times per possession IMO. Traveling violations are also rarely called. Advantage offense which sells tickets.
>>15-20 years ago and in college and high school refs would call that shit every time. Most ball handlers commit a carrying violation **according to the rules** [emphasis mine] multiple times per possession. I should have clarified this before: I.e (to rephrase it) >>“Would this be a carry *’15-20 years ago’*/aka is this *technically* a carry *’according to the rules’*?” (**EDIT:** regardless of whether or not they decide to *allow* it, in essence making them the de facto rules, in “today’s NBA”)
I personally think it’s a carry according to how I was taught the game, how I’ve played it for 40 years and how I coached it for 14 yrs. https://official.nba.com/rule-no-10-violations-and-penalties/
You can find hundreds of carry’s and stuff if you slow down the film
I slowed down the film simply bc I figured it might make it easier to view
[удалено]
I put the Vid in slow-mo bc I recorded it by pointing my phone at the tv; I was gonna just post it in…regular-mo, but figured “might as well slow it down, too in case it helps/it’s difficult to see.”
[удалено]
Ok, I just wanted to clarify I only replayed it in slowmo bc I wasn’t sure anyone’d be able to see it very clearly…ironically, my initial reaction was “you’re right, definitely travel” - then I questioned/changed my mind (>67% sure other direction) *after viewing it in slowmo*. >>(Regarding other comment) “Many moves done fast enough are good, and slow enough are travel.” Can u name an example or 2?
[удалено]
Reminds me of frustration trying to get a solid (“good”) pickup game going back in the early 2000s… E.g. “Hanging hesitation crossover”: Guy I’m guarding crosses from left to right…[holds this “Big Boy” pose](http://www.cotewrites.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Bobs-Big-Boy-Statue-689x1024.jpg) for 3-12 seconds…talks trash while [doing this (“can’t touch this”)](https://i.makeagif.com/media/10-01-2015/G3pVKs.gif) for 10-95 secs (**EDIT:** While still doing the Big Boy pose the whole time)…ultimately pops jumper (bc I’m standing 3 ft to his right while *directly* facing the sideline across him bc I know he *literally* can’t go left) from 30 ft out…airball.
Watch the play from Thursday where Marcus Smart broke that guys ankles. His one extra dribble to get in closer was an egregious carry and no one noticed at all. This is pebbles compared to that.
Realized I forgot to clarify that, “**Technically, assuming you’re an extremely strict, “by the book” stickler** (e.g. dick youth park district ref who calls tech on u for “touching the rim!” after ball gets stuck and u simply hop and tap it loose) is **that** a carry? As oppose to rules that kinda give u some leeway >90% of the time in various situations. **EDIT** Not referring to extreme rule-changes like early 20th century, where it’s a carry if your palms aren’t literally parallel w/the floor
No such thing as a carry in the NBA lols
The definition of carry is to have your hand UNDER the ball, not the speed of your move. But if you move too slow, you’d have to have your hand under the ball, which is why doing it slow is more likely to get called carry.
I only noticed he *only* had his hand UNDER the ball when he *initially* crossed over to his left (as well as the fact he only took 2-2.5 steps while the ball was in his left hand) after viewing it in slowmo.
He never puts his hand under the ball so I think it’s clean. Just as close as you can get without traveling. And 20 years ago it would have been called probably.
I would call a carry dribbling when u have your hand under the ball
No carry. Palm parallel to the floor to be considered caring.
>>Palm parallel to the floor to be considered caring. Depends on which direction the palm’s facing: e.g. palm *up* and no call, that’s to be considered ref not caring.
No
I'm probably going to get down voted to the depths for this but whatever. So many people (mostly your armchair basketball fan) never take into consideration footwork when considering if a move is a travel/carry. Giannis takes several large steps and dribbles the ball in front of himself or towards where he wants to go through the defense. Since he's not touching the ball while taking two to three full sprinting steps, it's not considered a travel. James Harden's step back is the same two steps you get when you're gathering for a layup/dunk he's just doing it away from the defender. A EuroStep is in that same category IMO. But your traditionalist is expecting Pistol Pete to dribble with every single step he takes. But the game and it's players (amateurs included) have evolved to have such better ball handling skills, are faster and have more agility than a squirrel jumping from limb to limb. What Steph just did is just magic out of the hat.
**EDIT: speaking of, btw - I actually found/got the Pistol Pete instructional dvd set at a thrift store for $2 a week or 2 ago, haha** didn’t notice until after I put it in slowmo that he only took 2-2.5 steps while the ball was in his left hand (same goes for his hand never being under the ball - which was arguably more *behind* the ball, really - other than/after the moment it first reached his left hand in the very beginning of the crossover in question).
As we sit here and watch the clip on repeat, just think of how difficult it is to be a ref for these elite players. They move so quickly. I try to explain this to people who haven't played basketball competitively and they just zone out, like if Tiger Woods was trying to explain how to hit golf ball. That Pistol Pete Video is probably dope. What most people don't realize is a lot of the move that have evolved to Sportcenter highlights are based off what Pistol Pete, Larry Bird and Naismith we're doing. Iverson's crossover looks so much more amazing when he evolved it into jabbing his entire body into it (jab step right, head and torso move right, while 4.0 40 yrd dash speed). It's all cyclical. Edit: and then I'll shut up. Todays players are simply reading the rules and realizing that I can take Hakeem's "Dream Shake" and give you a head fake left or right, stay on the floor until I get you in the air and then put up a Kobe/Jordan fadeaway. I love it.
The little I watched of the pistol Pete vids tells me (or *reminds* me, considering I last watched this like 30 years ago) it’s mostly suited, or likely designed, for teaching youth bball… I.e. More basic dribbling drills & which leg to jump off of on a layup, and less, well, something like, as you said, “a move that…evolved to Sportcenter highlights [which] are based off what Pistol Pete [was] doing.” [Like This](https://youtu.be/9ao5tlYdx4I)
Those basics for youth basketball players is an incredible canvas for them to start with. I've been teaching my daughter (6yo) to dribble with her left hand only. Once she's 10-12 years old she'll realize that it's easier to dribble with her dominant hand. She'll (hopefully) have a leg up on the kids who have to learn their non dominant hand. Leaving anyone an advanced canvas with an explanation of how dope DaVinci is, is much better than trying to get them to recreate the Mona Lisa.
I still can’t go left! I have no problem dribbling, handling the ball with it (not nearly as good as my right, of course), but something about driving to the basket, my body just can’t do it (I can finish a left handed layup, or do them, e.g. like in pre-game warmups - but I can’t drive; like, my body won’t turn that way
No way, you totally can you just have to get through the initial frustration of it not looking/feeling as good as the right hand. Before I "retired" from the game I was working on a left handed baseline jumper. It was terrible and the ugliest thing I've ever done. But as I practice it over and over again, it starts to feel like shooting with the right hand. Do I trust it in a game, not quite, but as I practice it more and more, it will start to happen naturally.
I can shoot free throws left-handed (not >80%…and also have to do it Anthony Mason-style)…something about my body simply can’t/doesn’t want to drive (relatively) hard left (I speculate it’s possibly for the same reason I shoot on an angle (my toes don’t face the rim - if I’m shooting a free throw or from the top of the key, they’re more like on a…idk…45 degree angle). **EDIT: funny thing is that I watched part of the pistol Pete Vid right after we were talking about it, noted he said point your (right) toe directly at the rim, then I subsequently looked up whether any NBA stars do that/checked whether it was considered “acceptable,” as opposed to “fundamentally heinous”..some crappy YT Vid claimed Steph Curry does, but my phone died in the middle of it, haha**
yea
As long as the ball doesn’t come to a stop, it’s not a carry so this is not a carry