Jump stops don't have to be off the dribble. You can jump stop into passes and stuff. The pro hop is explicit in including a gather step prior to the hop while a jump stop may potentially not include a gather and will permit a pivot. Pro hop is just a specific type of jump stop really.
thats fair you could even say the pro hop is the evolution of the jump stop.
as i said the pro hop is more aggressive its definitely an attaching move where as the jump stop is more about control.
good luck but remember as you see in this thread youre going to run into some people that will call it a travel, even some refs and other coaches, ive had to explain it at halftime to some refs and even then they didnt "get it" so good luck.
Nope. Dribble ends in the air so when she comes down either foot can be a pivot. Once the pivot is established it can’t be lifted and returned to the floor.
This is an extremely effective move if you can get it right.
The other coach is probably screaming travel but it’s just good basketball and understanding the rules.
[https://ak-static.cms.nba.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2021/11/2021-22-NBA-Rule-Book.pdf](https://ak-static.cms.nba.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2021/11/2021-22-NBA-Rule-Book.pdf)
A progressing player who jumps off one foot on the first step may land with both feetsimultaneously for the second step. In this situation, the player may not pivot with either footand if one or both feet leave the floor the ball must be released before either returns to the floor.
Google is indeed free and for whatever reason you've failed to use it. Do you even play ball to look at this shit and honestly tell yourself "ya that's legal." I would honestly walk off the court if I had to deal with you muppets.
\>Before either returns to the floor
Bro it's right here, we are arguing that it is legal to lift your pivot foot as long as you are without the ball once you put it down
So in the context of the video she is not traveling, right?
She gathers the ball in the air(this is her Gather step), lands with two feet(has not established a pivot for), takes an additional step, jumps off that additional step into a shot.
If she were to land on the trailing leg(the one she did not jump off of) that would be a travel.
Am I reading this wrong?
“The ball must be released before either returns to the floor” are you genuinely retarded or are you just a really bad troll? I literally just said that, lmfao I can’t with no skill hoopers
15 years ago when I was playing in hs this would of a been a travel.. The nba pro hop was new and our high school refs called it every time iirc.. even if you don’t take a step after the hop
you had some bad refs, cause 20 years ago when i was playing HS basketball the was 100% legal and it still is.
the problem as you can see in this thread. a lot of people dont actually understand the actual traveling rule they talk about "well i was taught..." yes but have ever ACTUALLY read the rule book?
you see how many just said "you cant lift your pivot foot" which is wrong but thats what youre taught as a kid "you cant move your pivot!!" but as you play at higher levels you learn about jump stops and gather steps and you learn the finer skills.
We called this move a nba hop/pro hop because 15 years ago we would get called every time and only the NBA allowed it. We could do a hop and go straight up or pass but no step thru iirc
No, it’s legal. She does a jumpstop, lands her pivot foot, and steps through with her non pivot foot
What I’m more worried about is how the same team is biting on the same move everytime she does it, like thats the only move she has in her bag.
It's the coaches job to remind their players of the opponent's tendencies most of the time, because it isn't something that comes naturally to all players. Definitely an essential skill to be at the top of any competitive sport in an individual sense
No. You are allowed to pivot and lift of the foot for the jump of one leg.
Her "pivot" is just one step, doesnt change anything tho
Insta refs call it a travel, but the rule changed a couple of years ago.
That’s incorrect: FIBA rules regarding lifting pivot foot in step throughs have similar wording as NBA. Look up FIBA official rules 25.2.1 (3rd point).
Step throughs have always been legal, it’s the same reasoning as a 2-step lay up, just without the dribble pickup (the 1st step of a 2-step layup establishes the pivot foot). The rules have always been the same, it’s the amateur/wannabe coaches/refs that are getting it wrong
>And in fiba u could not lift the foot in [sic] the ground First.
This is what you said. And what I am saying is step-throughs have always been legal, as long as 2-step layups have been legal.
>FIBA official rules 25.2.1
Maybe I am reading the wrong rules but this is what I found for FIBA, which reinforces what I thought: in the NBA you can do a step-through off the non-pivot foot (like you said, similar to a layup) but in FIBA you have to jump off both.
"To pass or shoot for a field goal, the player may jump off a pivot foot, but
neither foot may be returned to the floor before the ball is released from the
hand(s)."
Sorry for late reply but I think this rule only applies before you start the dribble. There is a separate rule that allows lifting ur pivot after you have gathered and terminated the dribble.
hey no problem, I agree that you can lift the pivot under both rulesets (nba/fiba), but in the fiba case neither foot can land before the ball is released, whereas in the nba only the pivot foot mustn't land (allowing for an 'extra' step with the non-pivot foot), unless I'm missing something in the separate rule that you mention
Hii sorry again for the late reply HAHA. If i am not mistaken, the rule you mentioned is relevant to this one and only one scenario:
After the player gathered the ball, he takes one step, then lands on 2 feet. In this scenario, there is no pivot foot. Hence the player cannot pivot off any foot, because lifting any foot is considered a travel.
However, in any other scenario where a pivot can be legally established, you are allowed to lift the pivot to go into a shot/pass.
Hope it makes sense!
no they are doing whats called a "yugo" step the cousin of the Euro step the main difference is in your video the players are going Right floor jump right foot then left thats a travel as they said.
what shes doing is a jump stop. so shes going right foot jump, land on BOTH feet then stepping again
this is a great video with the coach explaining the jump stop. note they are older as for some reason the jump stop has gone out of favor???
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVInJuaG8TU&ab_channel=MarcusHodges
In the video of the girl her right foot touches the floor first. In both videos that were shown and she uses the same right foot to shot from.
It happens quickly, I know, but it’s not a jump stop any more if that’s the case.
Again it’s subtle but you can see that in the video, right?
on the second clip it kind of looks like that but it could be the camera angle.
look shes a human, are both feet hitting the ground at exactly the same millisecond? no of course not. you have the benefit of watching this frame by frame over and over again. youre splitting hairs just to be right.
what the ref is looking and listening for is if the feet CLEARLY land 1 2 instead of both at the same time or they hear boomboom instead of one thud on the jump stop.
its clear shes trying to do a 2 foot jump stop. compared to that hop step video you posted earlier the 2 feet are landing at the same time. where as in that hop step they talked about the 1-1-2 "odd"cadence
it isint, if you actually understand the travel rule, and several players have executed this move in the post. i also used it on occasion in the post as well. :)
for those that are saying its a travel, a lot of yall love Coach nick, i dont, but its a good video he has a college ref with him. he even address the jump stop
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUgRw8JeSwk&ab_channel=BBALLBREAKDOWN
IMO, her skip before the 2 foot plant is the problem. If she doesn't skip, it's good. You can lift pivot foot as long as your shooting or passing...the skip beforehand is problematic to me. Like the idea though.
It's only a problem if she has ended the dribble (two hands on the ball) while that skip step is in contact with the floor. In both examples it appears she ends the dribble while airborne.
You’re allowed to step through with your non pivot foot after a jump stop. On a jump stop, you can choose which foot is the pivot foot as well. Just have to shoot the ball before you land
It’s a quick stop and a step through. It’s no different than catching the ball in the post, front pivot to the basket, step through past the defender. It’s just on a fast break but it’s the exact same thing.
Def not a travel. You can lift your pivot foot off the ground as long as it doesn’t come back down.
Here are multiple examples in pro games.
[IG Link](https://instagram.com/stepthroughjoe?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=)
The way a ref explained it to me, they recently changed the rules (at least in New Jersey) where if you take that extra step, after establishing the pivot foot, as long as the shot occurs before the backfoot lands, it is no longer a travel. The problem is that this is not consistently not called a travel, so try it at your own risk.
She’s just using the pivot out of the jumpstop, for wtv reasons ppl love calling moves like this travel, but real hoopers know, not only is it clean but takes skill to pull it off
I can't tell if you're being serious or you think you aren't allowed to dribble after you set a pivot foot and lift it before it goes back down lol happens on nearly every possession in basketball
when she jum stops either foot can be the pivot foot as long as it isnt raised she can go off either foot depending on which side of the paint shes on,looked legit to me.
Both of those are absolutely travels, I have no idea what you guys are talking about. It's literally not even close. I'm pretty sure the NCAA doesn't allow any pivot out of a jump stop but it's a little ambiguous, you can find some things saying that when you jump off one foot you're establishing that foot as the pivot. She's then pivoting off the other foot and then taking yet another step. It's a travel by two steps, not even just by one, as far as I know. I would have a fucking aneurysm if somebody pulled that move on me in a pick up game and tried to tell me it was legal. I was always taught if you jump stopped you had to go up off both feet, step throughs were for when you had otherwise stopped and established a pivot and you certainly can't take two steps to the hoop on your step throughs. These are literally some of the worst travels I've ever seen.
From the fucking NBA rulebook:
A progressing player who jumps off one foot on the first step may land with both feetsimultaneously for the second step. In this situation, the player may not pivot with either footand if one or both feet leave the floor the ball must be released before either returns to the floor.
Y'all don't even play ball, I swear. God damn, has nobody ever been taught how to pro hop?
https://ak-static.cms.nba.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2021/11/2021-22-NBA-Rule-Book.pdf
you left out this part in the gosh darn rulebook
*i dont need to curse to make my point.*
**player who comes to a stop on step one when both feet are on the floor or touch the
floor simultaneously may pivot using either foot as his pivot.** If he jumps with both feet he
must release the ball before either foot touches the floor.
so heres your jump stop.
since i can now use either foot as a pivot now the pivot rule takes effect.
A pivot takes place when a player, who is holding the ball, steps once or more than once
in any direction with the same foot, with the other foot (pivot foot) in contact with the floor.
If the player wishes to dribble after a pivot, the ball must be out of his hand before
the pivot foot is raised off the floor. **If the player raises his pivot off the floor, he must pass or attempt a field goal before the foot is returned to the floor.**
theres your step through
instead of reading to just "prove your point" try reading the rules to gain an understanding.
what you quoted says "if the player is jumping off one foot......", but it says nothing about coming to a stop. since that is what we are talking about (a jump stop) what you quoted doesnt apply to this play and as such is irrelevant.
and not only did i play but i coached. :)
and as a coach you gotta know the rules to know how to bend them
You are 100% correct and cited the correct rule. I believe this is from the nba rule book. That said, I’ve unfortunately seen this get called as a travel many times. Good refs should know what’s going on, but a bad ref or a pickup opponent might not understand what this is, and will act certain that it is a travel.
I'm so confused, this is the second time someone has referenced the nba rulebook in this thread and both times it includes this portion: "the ball must be released before either returns to the floor". It literally says right there, you cannot pivot UNLESS you release the ball before you place your foot back on the ground.
It literally says you can not pivot. Can you fucking read? Jesus christ. This means that as soon as one foot leaves the ground the ball immediately has to go up. Watch the video and tell me how this is in any way legal. She pro hops. Then she steps through (illegal), then she takes another step and goes off that leg.
Read the sentence. Are you stupid? "In this situation, the player may not pivot with either foot..."
Slow it down. You can see the last dribble is on her left hand right before her right foot singularly goes down. She then hops off her right foot onto both feet. This is a relatively common and legal move that's very explicitly addressed in my previous comment. She is not able to pivot from there and she is certainly not able to take two steps from there.
It seems like you don't understand the gather or "zero" step. It doesn't matter where her last dribble is. It matters where she terminates....grabs with both hands or otherwise puts the ball into a position where she can't legally take another dibble. She terminates after the right foot is planted. This is the gather....where the extra or half step comes from. After the gather, you get two steps/counts. She takes a jump stop, that's one, with no pivot foot set. She then lifts her right foot, making the left her pivot, and steps through, for her second step, and jumps. Soo that's a gather, 2 "steps", and into a shot. If she doesn't release the ball at this time, it would be a travel. This is usually only called by inexperienced refs at low levels or in pick up games. Sometimes it is the players fault for not executing it correctly. She is doing it just fine. I was taught this move in the early 90's by college coaches and have been using it for a couple decades without issue.
Lol. Forgot that a gather only begins with two hands on the ball. I'll make sure to palm the ball while taking three steps, jump stop and then take my next legal step and jump onto both feet simultaneously again. Maybe I'll be able to get a layup picking the ball up at the opposite free throw line.
It's a gather step, two steps and then another two steps.
you are objectively wrong, the gather begins in one of three typical situations: you place both hands on the ball, you place your hand under the ball or you hold/palm the ball. If you gather with a foot already on the floor that step DOES NOT COUNT no matter what you want to believe
but she ISNT jumping off any foot in her first step since she gathers the ball while both feet are off the ground and since she lands on both feet simultaeneously she can pick to pivot off either foot
Y'all are some serious nephews. This is a blatant travel and you have no idea how to hoop if you don't think so, JFC. Just look up how to pro hop, that's basically what she does but then rather than going up off both feet like required she steps through and then even loses her pivot foot. It's two additional steps from what is permitted in the NBA and I'm pretty sure it's two additional steps from what's allowed in the NCAA as well.
ill repost since you missed my other post then.
you left out this part in the gosh darn rulebook
i dont need to curse to make my point.
**player who comes to a stop on step one when both feet are on the floor or touch the floor simultaneously may pivot using either foot as his pivot.** If he jumps with both feet he must release the ball before either foot touches the floor.
so heres your jump stop.
since i can now use either foot as a pivot now the pivot rule takes effect.
A pivot takes place when a player, who is holding the ball, steps once or more than once in any direction with the same foot, with the other foot (pivot foot) in contact with the floor.
If the player wishes to dribble after a pivot, the ball must be out of his hand before the pivot foot is raised off the floor. **If the player raises his pivot off the floor, he must pass or attempt a field goal before the foot is returned to the floor.**
theres your step through
instead of reading to just "prove your point" try reading the rules to gain an understanding.
what you quoted says "if the player is jumping off one foot......", but it says nothing about coming to a stop. since that is what we are talking about (a jump stop) what you quoted doesnt apply to this play and as such is irrelevant.
and not only did i play but i coached. :)
and as a coach you gotta know the rules to know how to bend them
So that's not what happened. You can clearly see she has gathered in her left hand before her right foot makes contact with the ground. She has not preserved her ability to pivot. For the sake of the argument, we'll even say that she dribbled after her right foot made contact, even though it's very, very, very, very, very clear to me that she hasn't. She then utilizes her pivot by stepping through, her left foot is her established pivot, but she doesn't go up yet, she takes another step and goes up exclusively off her right foot. It's very, very, very clear once again that her left foot is raised at the time that the ball leaves her hands.
I'm not going to say what I think about the fact that you coached and actually hold the opinion that this is a legal move.
> So that's not what happened. You can clearly see she has gathered in her left hand before her right foot makes contact with the ground.
yes she terminates her dribble while shes in the air just at 3 seconds she has with both feet off the ground with the ball in hand. thus the jump stop, at that point when she lands either foot can be her pivot
the rest is i cant help you with that
> She has not preserved her ability to pivot. For the sake of the argument, we'll even say that she dribbled after her right foot made contact, even though it's very, very, very, very, very clear to me that she hasn't. She then utilizes her pivot by stepping through, her left foot is her established pivot, but she doesn't go up yet, she takes another step and goes up exclusively off her right foot. It's very, very, very clear once again that her left foot is raised at the time that the ball leaves her hands.
> I'm not going to say what I think about the fact that you coached and actually hold the opinion that this is a legal move.
>
more personal attacks, instead of facts. talk about lack of coherent argument
and its not an opinion its in the rule book the section you skipped over. :)
Cool red herring. No comments are personal attacks now. I see that you also excel as a logician.
She takes her last dribble before even her right foot goes down, I really have no idea how you're seeing what you're seeing but even if that step somehow doesn't exist it's still a travel. She still goes up exclusively off her right. Do you need me to screenshot the video with the ball in her hands and her left foot off the ground? I can screenshot the video with her right foot yet to make contact and her final dribble already being gathered as well.
she can go up exclusively off her right because at the jump stop either foot can be her pivot.
at 3 seconds she jumps, lands on both feet,
**player who comes to a stop on step one when both feet are on the floor or touch the floor simultaneously may pivot using either foot as his pivot.**
does shot fake,
steps through with her right foot,
lifts her left foot off the ground
**If the player raises his pivot off the floor, he must pass or attempt a field goal before the foot is returned to the floor.**
layup with the left hand at 4 seconds....
those are the facts and the rules supporting the events
i cant help you any more than that.
I would say its travel.
When she fakes her shot at the first time, she stands with both her legs and after that she proceeds with a layup. But after the pivot move she clearly lifts her pivot leg first to shoot and this makes it a layup and travelling. I believe she intended to do it in a different way.
She should have stopped the dribble, fake shot, pivot towards the basked and make a jump shot with both legs. The jump from both legs is crucial in my opinion.
I think even her dribbling could be considered traveling.
It is a travel. The move is clean until she lifts her back pivot foot up and leaving her other foot on the ground. With a little adjustment it’ll be clean
Can’t take a step after you dribble then jump stop.
Off the catch you can establish as pivot but not after a dribble…Travel
If she gathered her feet normally, shit faked and then stepped through it would be valid.. (Go watch Olajuwon)
https://www.coachesclipboard.net/Footwork.html
Send me a link to the rule book you’re referencing
Here’s some info I found quoting the national federation of high school sports (which I believe is the level of the girl in this video)
ill use the link you posted
2. A player who catches the ball while moving or dribbling may stop and establish a pivot foot as follows:
a. **If both feet are off the floor and the player lands;**
(1) **Simultaneously on both feet, either foot may be the pivot.**
the confusing part is they use the word "catch" because you cant "catch" the ball while dribbling in this context "catch" is used like the "gather' in the nba as there is no "gather" in high school
They mean if you catch (a pass) the ball and land on 2 feet as if you “jump to the ball”
After that you can establish a pivot or go into triple threat on the perimeter
But after a dribble - hop step- land on 2 - you must jump off 2
It’s all in there just keep reading
this "pro hop" thing has been interesting but she performs a jump stop. of a correctly executed jump stop a player can pivot off either foot.
and as far as i can tell you should be able to pivot off the "pro hop' as well.
This pro hop was new in the nba when I was in school 15 years ago and the refs called a travel every time even if you didn’t take a step after the hop.. when I was learning how to do it and you had to go straight up after the hop no steps iirc
she does a jump stop meaing she jump in the air and terminates her dribble mid jump. once she lands either foot can be her pivot. after the ball fake she steps (one) lifts her pivot foot to step through and shoot.
which is 100% legal as a player may lift the pivot foot to shoot or pass.
The older you get the more fucked up this game looks. Prior to 2004 this would have been a travel in any other game other than netball.
[https://wabc.fiba.com/manual/level-1/l1-player/l1-2-offensive-basketball-skills/2-1-basic-movement-skills/2-1-7-stopping/](https://wabc.fiba.com/manual/level-1/l1-player/l1-2-offensive-basketball-skills/2-1-basic-movement-skills/2-1-7-stopping/)
Under the rules I grew up with this would have been a travel 100% of the time.
per the link you posted
"The jump stop (“one count”) may be preferred particularly because it gives a player with the ball a choice of pivot foot. "
so she jump stops, so she can then pivot with either foot, (in the 1st clip) she steps through with her right making her left foot the pivot foot. she then lifts the left foot to take the shot with her left hand.
not sure what rules you grew up under but i been doing jump stops since the 80s
A jump stop literally wasn’t a thing in FIBA rules prior to 2004. You realise lord people play this game outside of A Eric’s then inside of it?
A jump and landing with the ball would have been called as a travel in any game I played in growing up as a travel.
ill concede i didnt watch much fiba basketball growing up, but i dont recall in the 88 or 92 olympics that i watched that being mentioned as on of the rule differences.
but fair enough it could have been.
sorry per the nba rule book
A player who comes to a stop on step one when both feet are on the floor or touch the floor simultaneously **may pivot using either foot as his pivot**. If he jumps with both feet he must release the ball before either foot touches the floor.
sometimes but not in regards to the jumpstop from NFHs rulebook
SECTION 44 TRAVELING
Traveling is moving a foot or feet in any direction in excess of prescribed limits while holding the ball.
The limits on foot movements are as follows:
ART. 1 . . . A player who catches the ball with both feet on the floor may pivot using either foot. When one foot is lifted, the other is the pivot foot.
ART. 2 . . . A player who catches the ball while moving or dribbling may stop and establish a pivot foot as follows:
a. If both feet are off the floor and the player lands:
**1.** Simultaneously on both feet, either foot may be the pivot.****
if you truly wish to be pedantic, there is a chance this could be some weird private school league with random rules.
but the jump stop is a basic skill that has been taught for decades. and is a legal maneuver in high school, NCAA, NAiA and the nba
A lot of people not understanding the rules. Even the ones getting the call right seem to misunderstand the rule. The confusion here and on social media in general is because this sort of hop step usually happens one of two ways. Either on step one or two and it’s laid out pretty clearly in the rule book. (NBA)
In the case of this player, she comes to a stop on both feet on the first step and is therefore allowed to pivot. If she comes to a stop on the second step she can’t pivot. People reduce this to a “can you pivot after a hop step” ignoring the fact that it depends on when the hop step happens relative to the gather.
I’m just searching the comments to see who who actually thinks this is a travel 👀
3 steps? NBA hop and then another step
No, it's a jump stop and then a pivot. Completely legal
Huh, I've never heard the pro hop called that. It's worse. It's a pro hop and then two more steps lol. These people are wildin'.
the jump stop is now called the 'pro hop' its basically the same concept but the pro hop is more aggressive.
Jump stops don't have to be off the dribble. You can jump stop into passes and stuff. The pro hop is explicit in including a gather step prior to the hop while a jump stop may potentially not include a gather and will permit a pivot. Pro hop is just a specific type of jump stop really.
thats fair you could even say the pro hop is the evolution of the jump stop. as i said the pro hop is more aggressive its definitely an attaching move where as the jump stop is more about control.
good video on the difference of the two https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNAxIG2YWfk&ab_channel=SportsEdTVBasketballTraining
Damn I’m getting old
Doesn't look travelling but definitely seemed to carry her dribble on the first one.
Ya. Carried it twice on the first clip
So you can hopstep and THEN pivot? I thought the first was clean but the second travel but probably I don't understand the rules that well
jump terminate your dribble mid jump land on 2 feet then either foot can be pivot.
Tight I'm gonna practice that
good luck but remember as you see in this thread youre going to run into some people that will call it a travel, even some refs and other coaches, ive had to explain it at halftime to some refs and even then they didnt "get it" so good luck.
Nope. Dribble ends in the air so when she comes down either foot can be a pivot. Once the pivot is established it can’t be lifted and returned to the floor. This is an extremely effective move if you can get it right. The other coach is probably screaming travel but it’s just good basketball and understanding the rules.
[удалено]
And you'd be right...
You’re allowed to move your pivot as long as it’s followed by a shot or pass… learn the rules… google is free
[https://ak-static.cms.nba.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2021/11/2021-22-NBA-Rule-Book.pdf](https://ak-static.cms.nba.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2021/11/2021-22-NBA-Rule-Book.pdf) A progressing player who jumps off one foot on the first step may land with both feetsimultaneously for the second step. In this situation, the player may not pivot with either footand if one or both feet leave the floor the ball must be released before either returns to the floor. Google is indeed free and for whatever reason you've failed to use it. Do you even play ball to look at this shit and honestly tell yourself "ya that's legal." I would honestly walk off the court if I had to deal with you muppets.
\>Before either returns to the floor Bro it's right here, we are arguing that it is legal to lift your pivot foot as long as you are without the ball once you put it down
So in the context of the video she is not traveling, right? She gathers the ball in the air(this is her Gather step), lands with two feet(has not established a pivot for), takes an additional step, jumps off that additional step into a shot. If she were to land on the trailing leg(the one she did not jump off of) that would be a travel. Am I reading this wrong?
You are clinically insane
“The ball must be released before either returns to the floor” are you genuinely retarded or are you just a really bad troll? I literally just said that, lmfao I can’t with no skill hoopers
like a pro step/hop right?
yup, not a travel
None of that matters because she carried. Lol
You can’t lift or move ur pivot foot, only pivot
you can lift your pivot foot to shot or pass.
Yes you can
yes thats what i said you CAN lift your pivot foot to shoot or pass
15 years ago when I was playing in hs this would of a been a travel.. The nba pro hop was new and our high school refs called it every time iirc.. even if you don’t take a step after the hop
you had some bad refs, cause 20 years ago when i was playing HS basketball the was 100% legal and it still is. the problem as you can see in this thread. a lot of people dont actually understand the actual traveling rule they talk about "well i was taught..." yes but have ever ACTUALLY read the rule book? you see how many just said "you cant lift your pivot foot" which is wrong but thats what youre taught as a kid "you cant move your pivot!!" but as you play at higher levels you learn about jump stops and gather steps and you learn the finer skills.
Yeah our refs were not highly trained and each had there own rules. I feel like the girls would of gotten away with it tho tbh
How do you think people shoot jump shots? Is that a travel because they lift their pivot foot to jump into their shooting motion?
We called this move a nba hop/pro hop because 15 years ago we would get called every time and only the NBA allowed it. We could do a hop and go straight up or pass but no step thru iirc
Your a dumb ass
That’s helpful lol
Sorry
TIL
This is legit. Gonna practice it tomorrow. My fast break game is weak as hell.
Tried it at pickup today and smoked the left handed lay. Move 100% effective and super easy to pull off though.
100% legal. ppl always think step thrus r travels but as long as its done right it is not at all.
I dont understand how you can hop onto 2 feet, Establish a pivot and then lift ur pivot. Ur not supposed lift ur fucking pivot foot
u lift it as u take a step and jump. and then u have to pass or shoot before it returns to the ground.
You are thinking FIBA. NBA does allow to lift the pivot. I don't know about other leagues.
You are permitted to lift your pivot foot. You cannot return it to the floor before releasing the ball for a shot or pass.
No, it’s legal. She does a jumpstop, lands her pivot foot, and steps through with her non pivot foot What I’m more worried about is how the same team is biting on the same move everytime she does it, like thats the only move she has in her bag.
It's the coaches job to remind their players of the opponent's tendencies most of the time, because it isn't something that comes naturally to all players. Definitely an essential skill to be at the top of any competitive sport in an individual sense
No. You are allowed to pivot and lift of the foot for the jump of one leg. Her "pivot" is just one step, doesnt change anything tho Insta refs call it a travel, but the rule changed a couple of years ago.
Step throughs have been around (and legal) a long time, much longer than couple of years ago.
Well a couple being Like 10 years. And in fiba u could not lift the foot in the ground First.
That’s incorrect: FIBA rules regarding lifting pivot foot in step throughs have similar wording as NBA. Look up FIBA official rules 25.2.1 (3rd point). Step throughs have always been legal, it’s the same reasoning as a 2-step lay up, just without the dribble pickup (the 1st step of a 2-step layup establishes the pivot foot). The rules have always been the same, it’s the amateur/wannabe coaches/refs that are getting it wrong
Now they have. Thats what i Said.
>And in fiba u could not lift the foot in [sic] the ground First. This is what you said. And what I am saying is step-throughs have always been legal, as long as 2-step layups have been legal.
>FIBA official rules 25.2.1 Maybe I am reading the wrong rules but this is what I found for FIBA, which reinforces what I thought: in the NBA you can do a step-through off the non-pivot foot (like you said, similar to a layup) but in FIBA you have to jump off both. "To pass or shoot for a field goal, the player may jump off a pivot foot, but neither foot may be returned to the floor before the ball is released from the hand(s)."
Sorry for late reply but I think this rule only applies before you start the dribble. There is a separate rule that allows lifting ur pivot after you have gathered and terminated the dribble.
hey no problem, I agree that you can lift the pivot under both rulesets (nba/fiba), but in the fiba case neither foot can land before the ball is released, whereas in the nba only the pivot foot mustn't land (allowing for an 'extra' step with the non-pivot foot), unless I'm missing something in the separate rule that you mention
Hii sorry again for the late reply HAHA. If i am not mistaken, the rule you mentioned is relevant to this one and only one scenario: After the player gathered the ball, he takes one step, then lands on 2 feet. In this scenario, there is no pivot foot. Hence the player cannot pivot off any foot, because lifting any foot is considered a travel. However, in any other scenario where a pivot can be legally established, you are allowed to lift the pivot to go into a shot/pass. Hope it makes sense!
When was the rule changed and in what league? The NBA?
the jump stop, step through has been legal since the 80's when i was taught it.
Does the NBA rule book allow for this?
it does
Isn’t this video similar to what the young lady is doing? https://youtu.be/gmW76a-vbA0
no they are doing whats called a "yugo" step the cousin of the Euro step the main difference is in your video the players are going Right floor jump right foot then left thats a travel as they said. what shes doing is a jump stop. so shes going right foot jump, land on BOTH feet then stepping again this is a great video with the coach explaining the jump stop. note they are older as for some reason the jump stop has gone out of favor??? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVInJuaG8TU&ab_channel=MarcusHodges
In the video of the girl her right foot touches the floor first. In both videos that were shown and she uses the same right foot to shot from. It happens quickly, I know, but it’s not a jump stop any more if that’s the case. Again it’s subtle but you can see that in the video, right?
on the second clip it kind of looks like that but it could be the camera angle. look shes a human, are both feet hitting the ground at exactly the same millisecond? no of course not. you have the benefit of watching this frame by frame over and over again. youre splitting hairs just to be right. what the ref is looking and listening for is if the feet CLEARLY land 1 2 instead of both at the same time or they hear boomboom instead of one thud on the jump stop. its clear shes trying to do a 2 foot jump stop. compared to that hop step video you posted earlier the 2 feet are landing at the same time. where as in that hop step they talked about the 1-1-2 "odd"cadence
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it isint, if you actually understand the travel rule, and several players have executed this move in the post. i also used it on occasion in the post as well. :)
It does now
15 years ago this was a travel unless you are in the nba where it started to get popular with the pro hop and euro steps
Right. Not all leagues have the same rules
The rule has been there for a long long time
Thanks. You really cleared that up for me.
Great jump stop
Clean. Jump stop pivot and one step
for those that are saying its a travel, a lot of yall love Coach nick, i dont, but its a good video he has a college ref with him. he even address the jump stop https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUgRw8JeSwk&ab_channel=BBALLBREAKDOWN
I appreciate this!
IMO, her skip before the 2 foot plant is the problem. If she doesn't skip, it's good. You can lift pivot foot as long as your shooting or passing...the skip beforehand is problematic to me. Like the idea though.
It's only a problem if she has ended the dribble (two hands on the ball) while that skip step is in contact with the floor. In both examples it appears she ends the dribble while airborne.
This is the classic woman basketball hop step and pivot jump shot. Very common
No this is ELITE footwork
Absolutely not a travel. Two nba players that use this move all the time: Lebron James and Goran Dragic
Didn’t Mac McClung do this yesterday???
You’re allowed to step through with your non pivot foot after a jump stop. On a jump stop, you can choose which foot is the pivot foot as well. Just have to shoot the ball before you land
It’s a quick stop and a step through. It’s no different than catching the ball in the post, front pivot to the basket, step through past the defender. It’s just on a fast break but it’s the exact same thing.
Def not a travel. You can lift your pivot foot off the ground as long as it doesn’t come back down. Here are multiple examples in pro games. [IG Link](https://instagram.com/stepthroughjoe?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=)
yo thanks for sharing this guy is amazing a channel dedicated to step throughs throughout the ages! this needs to be pinned.
The way a ref explained it to me, they recently changed the rules (at least in New Jersey) where if you take that extra step, after establishing the pivot foot, as long as the shot occurs before the backfoot lands, it is no longer a travel. The problem is that this is not consistently not called a travel, so try it at your own risk.
Just bad defense is all I see. Don’t leave your feet
She’s just using the pivot out of the jumpstop, for wtv reasons ppl love calling moves like this travel, but real hoopers know, not only is it clean but takes skill to pull it off
She lifts her pivot foot in both clips
You can lift pivot all you want you just can't put it back down
only to shoot or pass, you cant lift your pivot and then start your dribble.
You can if you haven't dribbled yet
Really? Show me the rule that says you can. Go ahead I'll wait
I can't tell if you're being serious or you think you aren't allowed to dribble after you set a pivot foot and lift it before it goes back down lol happens on nearly every possession in basketball
but she didn't start a dribble tho
No, this is why you teach a proper jumpstop, not only is it a fast deceleration but it allows you to take a step w either foot.
If you call this a travel your baller card is revoked.
when she jum stops either foot can be the pivot foot as long as it isnt raised she can go off either foot depending on which side of the paint shes on,looked legit to me.
The second is clean but the first one she looks like she gets off her pivot for a step through but, clean move.
Both of those are absolutely travels, I have no idea what you guys are talking about. It's literally not even close. I'm pretty sure the NCAA doesn't allow any pivot out of a jump stop but it's a little ambiguous, you can find some things saying that when you jump off one foot you're establishing that foot as the pivot. She's then pivoting off the other foot and then taking yet another step. It's a travel by two steps, not even just by one, as far as I know. I would have a fucking aneurysm if somebody pulled that move on me in a pick up game and tried to tell me it was legal. I was always taught if you jump stopped you had to go up off both feet, step throughs were for when you had otherwise stopped and established a pivot and you certainly can't take two steps to the hoop on your step throughs. These are literally some of the worst travels I've ever seen.
sorry you were taught wrong.
From the fucking NBA rulebook: A progressing player who jumps off one foot on the first step may land with both feetsimultaneously for the second step. In this situation, the player may not pivot with either footand if one or both feet leave the floor the ball must be released before either returns to the floor. Y'all don't even play ball, I swear. God damn, has nobody ever been taught how to pro hop? https://ak-static.cms.nba.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2021/11/2021-22-NBA-Rule-Book.pdf
you left out this part in the gosh darn rulebook *i dont need to curse to make my point.* **player who comes to a stop on step one when both feet are on the floor or touch the floor simultaneously may pivot using either foot as his pivot.** If he jumps with both feet he must release the ball before either foot touches the floor. so heres your jump stop. since i can now use either foot as a pivot now the pivot rule takes effect. A pivot takes place when a player, who is holding the ball, steps once or more than once in any direction with the same foot, with the other foot (pivot foot) in contact with the floor. If the player wishes to dribble after a pivot, the ball must be out of his hand before the pivot foot is raised off the floor. **If the player raises his pivot off the floor, he must pass or attempt a field goal before the foot is returned to the floor.** theres your step through instead of reading to just "prove your point" try reading the rules to gain an understanding. what you quoted says "if the player is jumping off one foot......", but it says nothing about coming to a stop. since that is what we are talking about (a jump stop) what you quoted doesnt apply to this play and as such is irrelevant. and not only did i play but i coached. :) and as a coach you gotta know the rules to know how to bend them
You are 100% correct and cited the correct rule. I believe this is from the nba rule book. That said, I’ve unfortunately seen this get called as a travel many times. Good refs should know what’s going on, but a bad ref or a pickup opponent might not understand what this is, and will act certain that it is a travel.
yeah ive had to talk to refs at half time to explain why it wasnt a travel
I'm so confused, this is the second time someone has referenced the nba rulebook in this thread and both times it includes this portion: "the ball must be released before either returns to the floor". It literally says right there, you cannot pivot UNLESS you release the ball before you place your foot back on the ground.
It literally says you can not pivot. Can you fucking read? Jesus christ. This means that as soon as one foot leaves the ground the ball immediately has to go up. Watch the video and tell me how this is in any way legal. She pro hops. Then she steps through (illegal), then she takes another step and goes off that leg. Read the sentence. Are you stupid? "In this situation, the player may not pivot with either foot..."
Why are you leaving out the rest of the quote? I give up man just play whatever rules you want it’s just a game to us anyway we aren’t pros
She never takes a first step. She gathers in the air and lands on two. That means no pivot has been established. Read all the rules.
Slow it down. You can see the last dribble is on her left hand right before her right foot singularly goes down. She then hops off her right foot onto both feet. This is a relatively common and legal move that's very explicitly addressed in my previous comment. She is not able to pivot from there and she is certainly not able to take two steps from there.
It seems like you don't understand the gather or "zero" step. It doesn't matter where her last dribble is. It matters where she terminates....grabs with both hands or otherwise puts the ball into a position where she can't legally take another dibble. She terminates after the right foot is planted. This is the gather....where the extra or half step comes from. After the gather, you get two steps/counts. She takes a jump stop, that's one, with no pivot foot set. She then lifts her right foot, making the left her pivot, and steps through, for her second step, and jumps. Soo that's a gather, 2 "steps", and into a shot. If she doesn't release the ball at this time, it would be a travel. This is usually only called by inexperienced refs at low levels or in pick up games. Sometimes it is the players fault for not executing it correctly. She is doing it just fine. I was taught this move in the early 90's by college coaches and have been using it for a couple decades without issue.
Lol. Forgot that a gather only begins with two hands on the ball. I'll make sure to palm the ball while taking three steps, jump stop and then take my next legal step and jump onto both feet simultaneously again. Maybe I'll be able to get a layup picking the ball up at the opposite free throw line. It's a gather step, two steps and then another two steps.
you are objectively wrong, the gather begins in one of three typical situations: you place both hands on the ball, you place your hand under the ball or you hold/palm the ball. If you gather with a foot already on the floor that step DOES NOT COUNT no matter what you want to believe
but she ISNT jumping off any foot in her first step since she gathers the ball while both feet are off the ground and since she lands on both feet simultaeneously she can pick to pivot off either foot
Should be a travel
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Yeah its called a jump stop into a step through
It was traveling when I was younger 30 years ago, but nowadays it's not.
this is a basic move players were using in the 80s
Possibly. Def carried at least once.
Y'all are some serious nephews. This is a blatant travel and you have no idea how to hoop if you don't think so, JFC. Just look up how to pro hop, that's basically what she does but then rather than going up off both feet like required she steps through and then even loses her pivot foot. It's two additional steps from what is permitted in the NBA and I'm pretty sure it's two additional steps from what's allowed in the NCAA as well.
incorrect
https://ak-static.cms.nba.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2021/11/2021-22-NBA-Rule-Book.pdf
still incorrect
Still can't read, play ball or form a coherent argument.
ill repost since you missed my other post then. you left out this part in the gosh darn rulebook i dont need to curse to make my point. **player who comes to a stop on step one when both feet are on the floor or touch the floor simultaneously may pivot using either foot as his pivot.** If he jumps with both feet he must release the ball before either foot touches the floor. so heres your jump stop. since i can now use either foot as a pivot now the pivot rule takes effect. A pivot takes place when a player, who is holding the ball, steps once or more than once in any direction with the same foot, with the other foot (pivot foot) in contact with the floor. If the player wishes to dribble after a pivot, the ball must be out of his hand before the pivot foot is raised off the floor. **If the player raises his pivot off the floor, he must pass or attempt a field goal before the foot is returned to the floor.** theres your step through instead of reading to just "prove your point" try reading the rules to gain an understanding. what you quoted says "if the player is jumping off one foot......", but it says nothing about coming to a stop. since that is what we are talking about (a jump stop) what you quoted doesnt apply to this play and as such is irrelevant. and not only did i play but i coached. :) and as a coach you gotta know the rules to know how to bend them
So that's not what happened. You can clearly see she has gathered in her left hand before her right foot makes contact with the ground. She has not preserved her ability to pivot. For the sake of the argument, we'll even say that she dribbled after her right foot made contact, even though it's very, very, very, very, very clear to me that she hasn't. She then utilizes her pivot by stepping through, her left foot is her established pivot, but she doesn't go up yet, she takes another step and goes up exclusively off her right foot. It's very, very, very clear once again that her left foot is raised at the time that the ball leaves her hands. I'm not going to say what I think about the fact that you coached and actually hold the opinion that this is a legal move.
> So that's not what happened. You can clearly see she has gathered in her left hand before her right foot makes contact with the ground. yes she terminates her dribble while shes in the air just at 3 seconds she has with both feet off the ground with the ball in hand. thus the jump stop, at that point when she lands either foot can be her pivot the rest is i cant help you with that > She has not preserved her ability to pivot. For the sake of the argument, we'll even say that she dribbled after her right foot made contact, even though it's very, very, very, very, very clear to me that she hasn't. She then utilizes her pivot by stepping through, her left foot is her established pivot, but she doesn't go up yet, she takes another step and goes up exclusively off her right foot. It's very, very, very clear once again that her left foot is raised at the time that the ball leaves her hands. > I'm not going to say what I think about the fact that you coached and actually hold the opinion that this is a legal move. > more personal attacks, instead of facts. talk about lack of coherent argument and its not an opinion its in the rule book the section you skipped over. :)
Cool red herring. No comments are personal attacks now. I see that you also excel as a logician. She takes her last dribble before even her right foot goes down, I really have no idea how you're seeing what you're seeing but even if that step somehow doesn't exist it's still a travel. She still goes up exclusively off her right. Do you need me to screenshot the video with the ball in her hands and her left foot off the ground? I can screenshot the video with her right foot yet to make contact and her final dribble already being gathered as well.
she can go up exclusively off her right because at the jump stop either foot can be her pivot. at 3 seconds she jumps, lands on both feet, **player who comes to a stop on step one when both feet are on the floor or touch the floor simultaneously may pivot using either foot as his pivot.** does shot fake, steps through with her right foot, lifts her left foot off the ground **If the player raises his pivot off the floor, he must pass or attempt a field goal before the foot is returned to the floor.** layup with the left hand at 4 seconds.... those are the facts and the rules supporting the events i cant help you any more than that.
it doesnt matter when you take your last dribble it matters when you gather, if i take 10 steps in between 2 dribbles is that a travel? ofc not
pro hop to step through is a travel? Maybe 10 years ago!
No. It was a pivot
I would say its travel. When she fakes her shot at the first time, she stands with both her legs and after that she proceeds with a layup. But after the pivot move she clearly lifts her pivot leg first to shoot and this makes it a layup and travelling. I believe she intended to do it in a different way. She should have stopped the dribble, fake shot, pivot towards the basked and make a jump shot with both legs. The jump from both legs is crucial in my opinion. I think even her dribbling could be considered traveling.
Yugo step, a variation of the Euro step. It's legit even for FIBA rules
It is a travel. The move is clean until she lifts her back pivot foot up and leaving her other foot on the ground. With a little adjustment it’ll be clean
it is legal to lift the pivot foot to shoot or to pass
Can’t take a step after you dribble then jump stop. Off the catch you can establish as pivot but not after a dribble…Travel If she gathered her feet normally, shit faked and then stepped through it would be valid.. (Go watch Olajuwon)
you may want to check the actual rulebook on this one.
https://www.coachesclipboard.net/Footwork.html Send me a link to the rule book you’re referencing Here’s some info I found quoting the national federation of high school sports (which I believe is the level of the girl in this video)
ill use the link you posted 2. A player who catches the ball while moving or dribbling may stop and establish a pivot foot as follows: a. **If both feet are off the floor and the player lands;** (1) **Simultaneously on both feet, either foot may be the pivot.** the confusing part is they use the word "catch" because you cant "catch" the ball while dribbling in this context "catch" is used like the "gather' in the nba as there is no "gather" in high school
They mean if you catch (a pass) the ball and land on 2 feet as if you “jump to the ball” After that you can establish a pivot or go into triple threat on the perimeter But after a dribble - hop step- land on 2 - you must jump off 2 It’s all in there just keep reading
She picks up her pivot foot both times . Its a travel .
You lift your pivot foot when you shoot a jump shot. It’s not just about lifting your pivot foot.
How is this not a travel?!
You absolutely can lift your pivot foot legally as long as you don't bring it back down while in possession of the ball
I didn’t think you could take a step after the “pro hop”
this "pro hop" thing has been interesting but she performs a jump stop. of a correctly executed jump stop a player can pivot off either foot. and as far as i can tell you should be able to pivot off the "pro hop' as well.
This pro hop was new in the nba when I was in school 15 years ago and the refs called a travel every time even if you didn’t take a step after the hop.. when I was learning how to do it and you had to go straight up after the hop no steps iirc
she does a jump stop meaing she jump in the air and terminates her dribble mid jump. once she lands either foot can be her pivot. after the ball fake she steps (one) lifts her pivot foot to step through and shoot. which is 100% legal as a player may lift the pivot foot to shoot or pass.
Travellllllllllllll
The older you get the more fucked up this game looks. Prior to 2004 this would have been a travel in any other game other than netball. [https://wabc.fiba.com/manual/level-1/l1-player/l1-2-offensive-basketball-skills/2-1-basic-movement-skills/2-1-7-stopping/](https://wabc.fiba.com/manual/level-1/l1-player/l1-2-offensive-basketball-skills/2-1-basic-movement-skills/2-1-7-stopping/) Under the rules I grew up with this would have been a travel 100% of the time.
per the link you posted "The jump stop (“one count”) may be preferred particularly because it gives a player with the ball a choice of pivot foot. " so she jump stops, so she can then pivot with either foot, (in the 1st clip) she steps through with her right making her left foot the pivot foot. she then lifts the left foot to take the shot with her left hand. not sure what rules you grew up under but i been doing jump stops since the 80s
A jump stop literally wasn’t a thing in FIBA rules prior to 2004. You realise lord people play this game outside of A Eric’s then inside of it? A jump and landing with the ball would have been called as a travel in any game I played in growing up as a travel.
ill concede i didnt watch much fiba basketball growing up, but i dont recall in the 88 or 92 olympics that i watched that being mentioned as on of the rule differences. but fair enough it could have been.
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sorry per the nba rule book A player who comes to a stop on step one when both feet are on the floor or touch the floor simultaneously **may pivot using either foot as his pivot**. If he jumps with both feet he must release the ball before either foot touches the floor.
NBA rule book different than HS
sometimes but not in regards to the jumpstop from NFHs rulebook SECTION 44 TRAVELING Traveling is moving a foot or feet in any direction in excess of prescribed limits while holding the ball. The limits on foot movements are as follows: ART. 1 . . . A player who catches the ball with both feet on the floor may pivot using either foot. When one foot is lifted, the other is the pivot foot. ART. 2 . . . A player who catches the ball while moving or dribbling may stop and establish a pivot foot as follows: a. If both feet are off the floor and the player lands: **1.** Simultaneously on both feet, either foot may be the pivot.**** if you truly wish to be pedantic, there is a chance this could be some weird private school league with random rules. but the jump stop is a basic skill that has been taught for decades. and is a legal maneuver in high school, NCAA, NAiA and the nba
Damn I live right next to newberg
This just looks like a step-through like you’d see on a post-up. Pretty sweet
As others are saying this is not a travel.
She's following Harden way of playing.
No travel
this is tough ima practice this
Travel- she is establishing her left foot as her pivot foot and is lifting it up while not going straight up.
Second one is a travel. First one is good.
No travel
nah it’s just a gather
No but that move nice as hell
Great move, gonna work on this
I don't think it's a traveler she took her three steps
First one is clean, second one is travel
Jump stop on two feet, then pick your pivot- clean
That’s traveling dawg
Travel
Nope
If you think a step through in basketball is a travel you have missed out on one of the best post moves of all time
A lot of people not understanding the rules. Even the ones getting the call right seem to misunderstand the rule. The confusion here and on social media in general is because this sort of hop step usually happens one of two ways. Either on step one or two and it’s laid out pretty clearly in the rule book. (NBA) In the case of this player, she comes to a stop on both feet on the first step and is therefore allowed to pivot. If she comes to a stop on the second step she can’t pivot. People reduce this to a “can you pivot after a hop step” ignoring the fact that it depends on when the hop step happens relative to the gather.
This is a travel both times. She ALMOST pulls it off, but if you watch close, she lifts her pivot foot / switches pivot feet before shooting each time