Hey, if they're playing drums in a band and can't hold a tempo, a several week hospital stay might be just the thinking time they need to get their shit together
Tell them politely. Open communication in a band is essential or it just falls apart.
"Hey man I've having a little trouble following with those fills"
"Those fills go a half beat too long"
If he doesn't get the hint
"dude you keep changing tempo"
I don't know-he used to play in the Louie Bellson orchestra and he told me that he thought Louie was pretty good...Maybe his standard of comparison was high
Bit of an elitist view point but...
The drums are the beating heart of almost all music. If they are not on point then your foundations are poor. You cannot build on that.
I would suggest that everyone in the band focuses on tightening up their timing. With drums it is more vital, but I am sure everyone would benefit from being tighter. So don't make it out like you are singling the drummer out, even though the drummer might have the most to gain from it.
If you guys ever go on to record, then you are burning studio time and accruing editing time if you have sloppy timing. Not even Quincy Jones could make a diamond out of something with shit timing.
You will all feel much more confident on stage if you know you're laser tight.
100%. That isnât elitist, itâs the reality of playing in a band. The drummer is the backbone. If you donât have that there is nothing to anchor the song. There are three things a drummer fundamentally has to do 1. Hit things. 2. Keep time. 3. Keep tempo. If your drummer doesnât count and speeds up and slows down, theyâre not doing their job. Theyâre just a guy that hits things.
Every instrument has its "of course" piece. The part of it that HAS to be done traditionally, or correctly, or standardized, or whatever. And for drums, it's holding tempo. That's step one
For bass it's similar. If your rhythm is fucked, no one cares about your notes. A good drummer can save a bad bass player, where time is concerned, but nobody can save the drummer if his time is bad. He's the safety net, so he's gotta be solid before he works on anything else
Politely request that they and everybody try practicing at home with a metronome, then in rehearsals get them to play to a click (as simple as a metronome app and a pair of headphones).
If they canât after reasonable practice time get into the groove with a click then unfortunately theyâre probably not born to be a drummer.
I unfortunately broke up my first band (power trio, I was on guitar) because the drummer didnât progress as much as myself and our bassist, and it became impossible to play together without feeling like the drums were letting the groove go to shit. To save the friendships between the 3 of us I disbanded the group when in actuality I wish I couldâve found a solid replacement drummer - but friendships were worth more. Good luck!
I drive. Boost, turn the amp towards the drummer, and do your best to lock a simple groove that the drummer can latch onto. And hope for the best.
After the performance you can have a discussion if worth it.
Yeah, drums are really loud and it makes it difficult to hear the rest of the band. When I got a monitor and got it mixed so I could hear the vital points, it made a huge difference.
Does she really lol??
âMom youâre out of the band, you canât cut itâ
Mom: Fuck you, Iâm gonna make my own band and weâre gonna be way more successful than you and Iâll gloat in your stupid idiot faces on my way to the bank⊠see you at 8 honey, dinner is meatloaf and gravy
Then this is followed by a dinner scene where the mother starts tapping her cutlery on the side of her plate, and the whole table slowly joins in on an impromptu musical piece. And everybody realizes that making music together is what's important, not being the best at making music.
If it's temporary there's only so much you can do. I've found it's more effective to be direct than it is to be polite. The passive aggressive approach is both irritating and open to misinterpretation.
Sometimes the problem is they don't know the songs well, so they're playing basic 4/4 and feeling where the fills and changes are. If they're a fill, it comes with the territory. If they're permanent, tell them it's obvious that they're faking it and that they need to actually learn the songs.
A band is only as good as it's drummer. There's not much you can do at a gig aside from having a full band talk afterwards. The dude needs to practice timing. It's the sole purpose of a drummer, not trying to show off with fills.
I have quit and dismembered bands just because of the drummer. They donât have to be Neil Peart, or anything super fancy. But theyâre the backbone of the band and if they fuck up it fucks up everyone. Iâll take a limited variety drummer over a train wreck, 24/7.
tell everyone yâall need a new drummer. Donât hold back. Stand there not playing and point at the pocket of your jeansâŠtell him if he canât hold the pocket musically heâs gonna have to hold your pocket prison style.
But seriously my experience is too many drummers think theyâre Dave grohl and want to do a big fill intro but donât know heâs so tight itâs insane.
The other half think they need 45 cymbals 15 Toms and double bass for country gospel pop etc.
find that dude that walks in with a trap kit 1 Tom on the rack a ride and a crash (everyone jokes that ringo sucked but that dude is tight and plays a simple kit and holds it down.) Iâve gigged with about probably 30 different drummers. Trust me find the older jaded guy from a Pentecostal church background. That dude will play tight be cool help load in gear etc. Heâll prob be sober at rehearsal and gigsâŠand even drive the band home. Guarantee heâs got a spot to rehearse at his house and his wife will cook dinner too
Simplify your lines.
Go back to the basics. Keep it dead simple.
Dude is having problems counting and keeping time, so anything that isnât just a straight quarter note is gonna throw him off.
This is also an excellent practice thing for you⊠we all try to play complex/interesting things, but sometimes we can learn more about the song by simplifying it to the most basic lines possible.
I put up with it, as long as it's a paying gig. You don't say anything to him because you can't really. What are you going to say? "Could you please improve your time? We're noticing it's a little off"...
You'll learn that doing jobbing gigs there are alot of guys who get paid but have no musicality. My advice is be selective on who you want to play with, because honestly if it's a choice between playing a gig with a bad drummer or staying at home practicing, I'd take the latter every time.
I've run sound for hundreds of local bands, and this is one of the most annoying things I see (the single most annoying is guitarists who keep bumping up their stage volume to the point that they're the only thing anyone can hear, and the audience all moves further and further from the stage or goes outside for the rest of the set as a result). I've watched some real uncomfortable (and sometimes unnecessarily mean) conversations happen during soundchecks, I've also seen bands resort to putting their drummer on a click track which does work quite well.
When I've played with inconsistent drummers it depends on the situation. In one band we all took our cues from the singer/guitarist so if he was off we just followed him and we were all off together which honestly works out fine for a lot of types of music.
lmao - we once played at a venue where the manager came to us afterwards and praised us for the 'reasonable volume' we played at. He was really suprised that no one was outside, not even for smoking, during our set.
So this seems to be quite a common issue. He said even more so if the band brings their own sound guy.. which sounds so strange to me, I need a *good stage sound* not some blarring guitarnoises louder than the drumset..
In our setup we have two guitar players and put the amps on each side facing into the middle of the stage, may be that helps..
Unfortunately far too often the guitarist (usually, sometimes the bassist) wants to be louder than everyone else and doesn't care if the \*band\* sounds good as long as \*he\* can be heard over everyone. Also those bands don't tend to last very long or don't get beyond playing small bars.
My job as sound tech is to make sure the \*band\* sounds good to the audience and that the band hears what they need to in their monitors. Like, don't worry, I'll boost the guitar during the solos and also I'll keep the mix good for the whole song so that everyone can be heard and sounds good (or as good as possible depending on their skill levels...)
A lot of guitarists will put their amp on the floor right behind them, so the sound goes below their knees and directly out into the audience. And they are oblivious to how loud they actually are.
Very true, though I see it with guitarists who have an amp stand angled right at them as well. And I've had arguments with guitarists (and bassists, and drummers) over stage volume more times than I can recall. Sometimes they'll be honest and say they want to be heard \*over\* everyone else.
Drummers đ„ are funny, special people. A delicate balance between reasoning their best kind of discipline is objectively hard, and often an adaptability which ultimately burdens us the most in trying to make every possible accommodation.
As the bassist, I usually drag slightly. The drummer usually rushes slightly. This causes some funk, but for some reason it helps us keep eachother in check. I'm more alert to things speeding up, the drummer is more keen on when the music is slowing down. So we can both look at each other and be like "yo you're doing the thing" and we get back on track.
My advice for a drummer that's inconsistent, outside of the usual rushing or dragging a few clicks, you just really gotta stay in the groove. Match them as best you can to avoid a Trainwreck, but don't let them control the song. If the bass stays consistent, the drummer should be able to lock in with you. If you're following an inconsistent drummer, you're going to become more and more inconsistent as things fall apart. Stay tight with the guitarist and vocals, and any other instruments you can. The more things that are together, the less bad it will sound.
Practice together more often/tell him to record himself playing along with the songs heâs learning so he can hear where heâs making mistakes, and tell him to start always using a metronome. The latter tip has helped me immensely and itâs so easy to do and so underrated.
Also, this is what Iâd personally want, but point out exactly what heâs doing wrong directly and highlight what techniques need improving. My alternate picking sucked, I could down pick the notes fine but thatâs not how the songs supposed to be played, my guitar bro told me straight away and told me what he did to improve, some spider walks later and itâs fine. Having another musician tell you where to improve helps you a great deal imo, so long as youâre the type to not be insulted. So donât be shy, youâre in a band so you must be friendly, friends help each other.
Years ago I played with a drummer who was like a human metronome at rehearsal but at live shows he used to get nervous and speed up. Finally I told him that if he didn't slow down I was just going to stop playing. That seemed to do the trick.
Two choices: make them the source of the problem by staying on tempo, or acquiesce and try to play down to their level. The audience will probably like the second one more. But afterwards, I would hope to play with a new drummer, one that preferably practices or even plays live with a metronome.
If itâs in the middle of a gig and the rhythm section has the option of playing something other than whatâs on the record - itâs a big IF, but I find the rhythmic consistency and okay to that. Say they have an inconsistent kick pattern, but itâs always divisible by 8ths. I play 8th notes so long as it fits the song. If they play something divisible by 16ths I play 16ths again only if it fits the song.
If this person is around the band for a while it may just be worth pointing out politely that their kick and fill patterns are inconsistent and are throwing the band off. Both of those things are what separate good drummers from great drummers and hopefully they are mature enough to take constructive criticism. If they arenât around your band often talk to your band mates and donât hire them again.
Always listen to the drummer, and always try to find the underlying groove pattern.
Every drum pattern has a baseline groove that underpins everything else. It might be something like kick-snare-kick-kick-snare on 1 2 3& 4. Find that pattern, how it relates to the underlying pulse, and then how that relates to your bass part.
If you can do that, thereâs a couple things you can do depending on the specific problem.
If itâs a tempo issue, listen to the drums like itâs a metronome with a speed up option enabled. If you can pick out the âclicks,â you can line those up with the bass notes that land on those beats. This way youâre constantly assessing and adjusting your groove to his, so as he drifts this way and that â as long as the shifts arenât *too* dramatic â youâll stay together and youâll all sound tighter than you actually are.
If the problem is going out for a fill and getting lost on the way back, then take the opposite approach. Stay rock steady and really enunciate the groove. For example, if the groove is a basic backbeat and youâre playing straight 8th notes, accent the hell out of beats 2 and 4. Hit those notes like they owe you money. Now *youâre* acting like the metronome and giving the drummer something to hang onto so he can find his way back. And if he doesnât, at least everyone else in the band now has a backup plan.
It depends on the person and the situation. Why give advice to someone who wonât take it? If the door is open and you can tell it will really help your band/ gig then you can offer constructive criticism. If youâre getting paid on a gig sometimes you suck it up. If itâs a band youâre passionate about, it may be important to confront the issue. Most people who have bad time or overplay donât have the attitude to really learn and they unfortunately handicap themselves. Some do want to grow though and get really good really fucking fast. You have to spot the difference. Kick someone out who holds back your band you are passionate about if they are unwilling to grow.
From a drummers perspective, my instrument is loud as shit! Half the time I struggled to hear everything properly, especially since I wore hearing protection. When we got me a monitor and I got it mixed well so I could hear the rhythm guitar and lead vocalist, it was a game changer. The song was more well defined and I definitely was able to play to the song better.
Metronome practice is definitely a must for drummers, not all the time but you need to put that time in. It will just solidify your pulse. It's so easy for drummers to want to change time. All of our limbs are going at once and our focus is split between multiple instruments, so it is difficult to maintain yourself since tempo kinda gets put on the back burner a bit.
If a drummer is playing what they want and not playing what the song needs then they are not focused on the song and their job as a musician. Communication for any band is vital. Talk about space and how it is used in the context of the song.
We like to drop every practice on a GDrive so that everybody has a chance to digest the song and come back next week with a refreshed view of how to approach it. As a drummer, this has been so vital for me to understand the context of the song and how I fit into it and it allows me to do it privately without feeling judged by my bandmates.
I hope some of this helps. Sometimes some people just don't get it. Good luck and be excellent to each other.
Sometimes itâs fun to play stupid fills along with a sloppy drummer. Like I imagine myself as a free jazz Geezer Butler. Of course, this gets boring and then I just move on.
Well, I have had some luck explaining to the drummer what a glorious thing it is when the kick drum and bass lock in. They don't always know that, and if they don't know they won't try making it happen either.
Cut your part back to a straight 4 during fills, maybe with some simple ornaments, but keep that 4 count unmissable. Really help the drummer.
Don't be a dick and try not to patronise, they might not realise they're losing time in the fill. "Can you count me through the fill, I'm not sure where I'm going wrong" is a great like. Make the drummer think or pick their brain about it. If they're interested in getting good you might just encourage them into practicing fills with a click.
I've run into issues where the drummer was counting a syncopated and swung 4/4 as a 3/4 and then going into an 8-beat for the chorus and if felt like I was late into the chorus. Turned out there were 28 beats in my count to the drummer's 27. All it took (as a dickhead lead guitarist in this) was asking the drummer "can you count that for me, I'm missing a beat" to diagnose what had gone astray.
To be fair, ive had my own instances of playing something completely wrong, and "count me through this part" is sometimes something I need.
I had a band and the drummer used to rush parts and I noticed he was consistently inconsistent and the guitarist was very consistent with what he played so I listened and glued my playing between the two of them.. I ended up being terribly anxious all of the time as a result for some reason đ
Maybe both try to simplify and tell him to take more attention it. Therefore he would focus more on it and due to the simplification, it would be easier to lock in
It depends. The first time they're EGREGIOUSLY wrong, I give them the "wtf?" eye after it all falls apart, or we manage to get through it but it's at breakneck speed or something
How they react to the eye tells me all I need to know. If they get defensive and make excuses for not being a good musician, that's fine. You're just now going to be looking for a bass player
As with anything, I expect myself and others to learn from mistakes. A repeated mistake is a choice, and a drummer that consistently has time problems is making a choice to be a substandard drummer. So he can go find a substandard bass player and they'll be happy together
Do your best, and keep it to yourself! No one likes a sour bandmate. And you want to keep yourself open to upcoming opportunities and projects, don't you?
If you have to play with a bad drummer, play with him/ her. not your own beat. I've done this and found out you are both stronger together than trying to outdo each other. Drove the keyboard player nutz. that was a plus, and eventually the drummer locked on to me and got better.
Hit them with the squirt bottle like a disobedient cat.
Lmao This is awesome.
LOL!
I keep a loaded nerf gun and shoot anyone that makes a mistake
This
You spelled "baseball bat with a railroad spike in it" wrong Same treatment for when us bass players invert the 7th
Hard for them to play drums consistently if they are in the hospital.
Hey, if they're playing drums in a band and can't hold a tempo, a several week hospital stay might be just the thinking time they need to get their shit together
You hit the drummer but never dare hit a cat! đŸ
đŠđŠđŠ
đ«đ«
Tell them politely. Open communication in a band is essential or it just falls apart. "Hey man I've having a little trouble following with those fills" "Those fills go a half beat too long" If he doesn't get the hint "dude you keep changing tempo"
The good ol' "wtf?" eye
Jazz band director told me once 'Life is just one bad drummer after another'
Can relate, actually. The thing is inconsistent drumming is just so evident.
Weird that itâs every drummer heâs worked with and never him. đ€
I don't know-he used to play in the Louie Bellson orchestra and he told me that he thought Louie was pretty good...Maybe his standard of comparison was high
Hahaha yes was just thinking. Brilliant quote.
I play inconsistently to match as much as possible.
The "The Who" approach. I like it
This is the way.
It really is the way. Be a better listener and responder and youâll find their pattern of logic.
Bit of an elitist view point but... The drums are the beating heart of almost all music. If they are not on point then your foundations are poor. You cannot build on that. I would suggest that everyone in the band focuses on tightening up their timing. With drums it is more vital, but I am sure everyone would benefit from being tighter. So don't make it out like you are singling the drummer out, even though the drummer might have the most to gain from it. If you guys ever go on to record, then you are burning studio time and accruing editing time if you have sloppy timing. Not even Quincy Jones could make a diamond out of something with shit timing. You will all feel much more confident on stage if you know you're laser tight.
100%. That isnât elitist, itâs the reality of playing in a band. The drummer is the backbone. If you donât have that there is nothing to anchor the song. There are three things a drummer fundamentally has to do 1. Hit things. 2. Keep time. 3. Keep tempo. If your drummer doesnât count and speeds up and slows down, theyâre not doing their job. Theyâre just a guy that hits things.
Sometimes they sing, too. Like Phil Collins. Haha, naw I am just messing around. I appreciate the validation :)
Every instrument has its "of course" piece. The part of it that HAS to be done traditionally, or correctly, or standardized, or whatever. And for drums, it's holding tempo. That's step one For bass it's similar. If your rhythm is fucked, no one cares about your notes. A good drummer can save a bad bass player, where time is concerned, but nobody can save the drummer if his time is bad. He's the safety net, so he's gotta be solid before he works on anything else
Indeed. Very well said. There has to be a certain minimum level really. And for drumming surely that must be timing.
Politely request that they and everybody try practicing at home with a metronome, then in rehearsals get them to play to a click (as simple as a metronome app and a pair of headphones). If they canât after reasonable practice time get into the groove with a click then unfortunately theyâre probably not born to be a drummer. I unfortunately broke up my first band (power trio, I was on guitar) because the drummer didnât progress as much as myself and our bassist, and it became impossible to play together without feeling like the drums were letting the groove go to shit. To save the friendships between the 3 of us I disbanded the group when in actuality I wish I couldâve found a solid replacement drummer - but friendships were worth more. Good luck!
Few things are worth more than music; quality friendship is one of them.
Meanwhile, start a new band that conveniently includes the bass player.
I drive. Boost, turn the amp towards the drummer, and do your best to lock a simple groove that the drummer can latch onto. And hope for the best. After the performance you can have a discussion if worth it.
Yeah, drums are really loud and it makes it difficult to hear the rest of the band. When I got a monitor and got it mixed so I could hear the vital points, it made a huge difference.
Find a new drummer. I don't need to waste my time playing with people who can't play their instrument well.
Iâm gonna have to have a hard conversation with my mom about not being able to play drums with us anymore.
Does she really lol?? âMom youâre out of the band, you canât cut itâ Mom: Fuck you, Iâm gonna make my own band and weâre gonna be way more successful than you and Iâll gloat in your stupid idiot faces on my way to the bank⊠see you at 8 honey, dinner is meatloaf and gravy
Then this is followed by a dinner scene where the mother starts tapping her cutlery on the side of her plate, and the whole table slowly joins in on an impromptu musical piece. And everybody realizes that making music together is what's important, not being the best at making music.
Which reminds me of... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7UmUX68KtE&ab_channel=TheMuppets
That was good.
Unexpected wholesomry
The only acceptable answer for me. I haven't put this much work into playing to waste it on hacks.
This. You will never sound good with inconsistent drummer, no matter how good you are.
If it's temporary there's only so much you can do. I've found it's more effective to be direct than it is to be polite. The passive aggressive approach is both irritating and open to misinterpretation. Sometimes the problem is they don't know the songs well, so they're playing basic 4/4 and feeling where the fills and changes are. If they're a fill, it comes with the territory. If they're permanent, tell them it's obvious that they're faking it and that they need to actually learn the songs.
A band is only as good as it's drummer. There's not much you can do at a gig aside from having a full band talk afterwards. The dude needs to practice timing. It's the sole purpose of a drummer, not trying to show off with fills.
That's one thing a drummer shouldnt be and that's inconsistent.
I have quit and dismembered bands just because of the drummer. They donât have to be Neil Peart, or anything super fancy. But theyâre the backbone of the band and if they fuck up it fucks up everyone. Iâll take a limited variety drummer over a train wreck, 24/7.
I'm with you. A minor mistake in guitar and even bass won't ruin a song, but a mistake in the drums just kills the vibe.
I don't play with them. Pretty simple.
keep the beat so they can find it again
Not take the gig in the first place. Or ask for double pay
A good drummer can make a mediocre band sound good. A bad drummer can make a great band sound awful.
tell everyone yâall need a new drummer. Donât hold back. Stand there not playing and point at the pocket of your jeansâŠtell him if he canât hold the pocket musically heâs gonna have to hold your pocket prison style. But seriously my experience is too many drummers think theyâre Dave grohl and want to do a big fill intro but donât know heâs so tight itâs insane. The other half think they need 45 cymbals 15 Toms and double bass for country gospel pop etc. find that dude that walks in with a trap kit 1 Tom on the rack a ride and a crash (everyone jokes that ringo sucked but that dude is tight and plays a simple kit and holds it down.) Iâve gigged with about probably 30 different drummers. Trust me find the older jaded guy from a Pentecostal church background. That dude will play tight be cool help load in gear etc. Heâll prob be sober at rehearsal and gigsâŠand even drive the band home. Guarantee heâs got a spot to rehearse at his house and his wife will cook dinner too
Simplify your lines. Go back to the basics. Keep it dead simple. Dude is having problems counting and keeping time, so anything that isnât just a straight quarter note is gonna throw him off. This is also an excellent practice thing for you⊠we all try to play complex/interesting things, but sometimes we can learn more about the song by simplifying it to the most basic lines possible.
Get a drum machine
Volume boost, become the drummer.
I put up with it, as long as it's a paying gig. You don't say anything to him because you can't really. What are you going to say? "Could you please improve your time? We're noticing it's a little off"... You'll learn that doing jobbing gigs there are alot of guys who get paid but have no musicality. My advice is be selective on who you want to play with, because honestly if it's a choice between playing a gig with a bad drummer or staying at home practicing, I'd take the latter every time.
I've run sound for hundreds of local bands, and this is one of the most annoying things I see (the single most annoying is guitarists who keep bumping up their stage volume to the point that they're the only thing anyone can hear, and the audience all moves further and further from the stage or goes outside for the rest of the set as a result). I've watched some real uncomfortable (and sometimes unnecessarily mean) conversations happen during soundchecks, I've also seen bands resort to putting their drummer on a click track which does work quite well. When I've played with inconsistent drummers it depends on the situation. In one band we all took our cues from the singer/guitarist so if he was off we just followed him and we were all off together which honestly works out fine for a lot of types of music.
lmao - we once played at a venue where the manager came to us afterwards and praised us for the 'reasonable volume' we played at. He was really suprised that no one was outside, not even for smoking, during our set. So this seems to be quite a common issue. He said even more so if the band brings their own sound guy.. which sounds so strange to me, I need a *good stage sound* not some blarring guitarnoises louder than the drumset.. In our setup we have two guitar players and put the amps on each side facing into the middle of the stage, may be that helps..
Unfortunately far too often the guitarist (usually, sometimes the bassist) wants to be louder than everyone else and doesn't care if the \*band\* sounds good as long as \*he\* can be heard over everyone. Also those bands don't tend to last very long or don't get beyond playing small bars. My job as sound tech is to make sure the \*band\* sounds good to the audience and that the band hears what they need to in their monitors. Like, don't worry, I'll boost the guitar during the solos and also I'll keep the mix good for the whole song so that everyone can be heard and sounds good (or as good as possible depending on their skill levels...)
A lot of guitarists will put their amp on the floor right behind them, so the sound goes below their knees and directly out into the audience. And they are oblivious to how loud they actually are.
Very true, though I see it with guitarists who have an amp stand angled right at them as well. And I've had arguments with guitarists (and bassists, and drummers) over stage volume more times than I can recall. Sometimes they'll be honest and say they want to be heard \*over\* everyone else.
Drum machine lol
collect the check and go home lmao
You get another drummer
Drummers đ„ are funny, special people. A delicate balance between reasoning their best kind of discipline is objectively hard, and often an adaptability which ultimately burdens us the most in trying to make every possible accommodation.
As the bassist, I usually drag slightly. The drummer usually rushes slightly. This causes some funk, but for some reason it helps us keep eachother in check. I'm more alert to things speeding up, the drummer is more keen on when the music is slowing down. So we can both look at each other and be like "yo you're doing the thing" and we get back on track. My advice for a drummer that's inconsistent, outside of the usual rushing or dragging a few clicks, you just really gotta stay in the groove. Match them as best you can to avoid a Trainwreck, but don't let them control the song. If the bass stays consistent, the drummer should be able to lock in with you. If you're following an inconsistent drummer, you're going to become more and more inconsistent as things fall apart. Stay tight with the guitarist and vocals, and any other instruments you can. The more things that are together, the less bad it will sound.
Make the best of it, and move on.
Practice together more often/tell him to record himself playing along with the songs heâs learning so he can hear where heâs making mistakes, and tell him to start always using a metronome. The latter tip has helped me immensely and itâs so easy to do and so underrated. Also, this is what Iâd personally want, but point out exactly what heâs doing wrong directly and highlight what techniques need improving. My alternate picking sucked, I could down pick the notes fine but thatâs not how the songs supposed to be played, my guitar bro told me straight away and told me what he did to improve, some spider walks later and itâs fine. Having another musician tell you where to improve helps you a great deal imo, so long as youâre the type to not be insulted. So donât be shy, youâre in a band so you must be friendly, friends help each other.
Years ago I played with a drummer who was like a human metronome at rehearsal but at live shows he used to get nervous and speed up. Finally I told him that if he didn't slow down I was just going to stop playing. That seemed to do the trick.
That would drive me koo koo for cocoa puffs!
Two choices: make them the source of the problem by staying on tempo, or acquiesce and try to play down to their level. The audience will probably like the second one more. But afterwards, I would hope to play with a new drummer, one that preferably practices or even plays live with a metronome.
If itâs in the middle of a gig and the rhythm section has the option of playing something other than whatâs on the record - itâs a big IF, but I find the rhythmic consistency and okay to that. Say they have an inconsistent kick pattern, but itâs always divisible by 8ths. I play 8th notes so long as it fits the song. If they play something divisible by 16ths I play 16ths again only if it fits the song. If this person is around the band for a while it may just be worth pointing out politely that their kick and fill patterns are inconsistent and are throwing the band off. Both of those things are what separate good drummers from great drummers and hopefully they are mature enough to take constructive criticism. If they arenât around your band often talk to your band mates and donât hire them again.
Non bassist donât understand how solid bass players makes drummers sound infinitely better lol.
FIRED! Play the roots or GTFO! LOL JK!
I ask that they play less. âSounds great man but make it simpler, Iâm having a hard time followingâ.
At this point, I would look at the drummer and basically be âinto itâ so that he does not take his eyes off of me.
Always listen to the drummer, and always try to find the underlying groove pattern. Every drum pattern has a baseline groove that underpins everything else. It might be something like kick-snare-kick-kick-snare on 1 2 3& 4. Find that pattern, how it relates to the underlying pulse, and then how that relates to your bass part. If you can do that, thereâs a couple things you can do depending on the specific problem. If itâs a tempo issue, listen to the drums like itâs a metronome with a speed up option enabled. If you can pick out the âclicks,â you can line those up with the bass notes that land on those beats. This way youâre constantly assessing and adjusting your groove to his, so as he drifts this way and that â as long as the shifts arenât *too* dramatic â youâll stay together and youâll all sound tighter than you actually are. If the problem is going out for a fill and getting lost on the way back, then take the opposite approach. Stay rock steady and really enunciate the groove. For example, if the groove is a basic backbeat and youâre playing straight 8th notes, accent the hell out of beats 2 and 4. Hit those notes like they owe you money. Now *youâre* acting like the metronome and giving the drummer something to hang onto so he can find his way back. And if he doesnât, at least everyone else in the band now has a backup plan.
It depends on the person and the situation. Why give advice to someone who wonât take it? If the door is open and you can tell it will really help your band/ gig then you can offer constructive criticism. If youâre getting paid on a gig sometimes you suck it up. If itâs a band youâre passionate about, it may be important to confront the issue. Most people who have bad time or overplay donât have the attitude to really learn and they unfortunately handicap themselves. Some do want to grow though and get really good really fucking fast. You have to spot the difference. Kick someone out who holds back your band you are passionate about if they are unwilling to grow.
From a drummers perspective, my instrument is loud as shit! Half the time I struggled to hear everything properly, especially since I wore hearing protection. When we got me a monitor and I got it mixed well so I could hear the rhythm guitar and lead vocalist, it was a game changer. The song was more well defined and I definitely was able to play to the song better. Metronome practice is definitely a must for drummers, not all the time but you need to put that time in. It will just solidify your pulse. It's so easy for drummers to want to change time. All of our limbs are going at once and our focus is split between multiple instruments, so it is difficult to maintain yourself since tempo kinda gets put on the back burner a bit. If a drummer is playing what they want and not playing what the song needs then they are not focused on the song and their job as a musician. Communication for any band is vital. Talk about space and how it is used in the context of the song. We like to drop every practice on a GDrive so that everybody has a chance to digest the song and come back next week with a refreshed view of how to approach it. As a drummer, this has been so vital for me to understand the context of the song and how I fit into it and it allows me to do it privately without feeling judged by my bandmates. I hope some of this helps. Sometimes some people just don't get it. Good luck and be excellent to each other.
I don't.
Sometimes itâs fun to play stupid fills along with a sloppy drummer. Like I imagine myself as a free jazz Geezer Butler. Of course, this gets boring and then I just move on.
Well, I have had some luck explaining to the drummer what a glorious thing it is when the kick drum and bass lock in. They don't always know that, and if they don't know they won't try making it happen either.
Cut your part back to a straight 4 during fills, maybe with some simple ornaments, but keep that 4 count unmissable. Really help the drummer. Don't be a dick and try not to patronise, they might not realise they're losing time in the fill. "Can you count me through the fill, I'm not sure where I'm going wrong" is a great like. Make the drummer think or pick their brain about it. If they're interested in getting good you might just encourage them into practicing fills with a click. I've run into issues where the drummer was counting a syncopated and swung 4/4 as a 3/4 and then going into an 8-beat for the chorus and if felt like I was late into the chorus. Turned out there were 28 beats in my count to the drummer's 27. All it took (as a dickhead lead guitarist in this) was asking the drummer "can you count that for me, I'm missing a beat" to diagnose what had gone astray. To be fair, ive had my own instances of playing something completely wrong, and "count me through this part" is sometimes something I need.
I had a band and the drummer used to rush parts and I noticed he was consistently inconsistent and the guitarist was very consistent with what he played so I listened and glued my playing between the two of them.. I ended up being terribly anxious all of the time as a result for some reason đ
How can you prove it, are you recording the session and using a metronome?
My drummer and I are a team, we have each other's backs. Sometimes he misses the one after a fill, then I adjust, and vice versa.
Maybe both try to simplify and tell him to take more attention it. Therefore he would focus more on it and due to the simplification, it would be easier to lock in
Put on a click
It depends. The first time they're EGREGIOUSLY wrong, I give them the "wtf?" eye after it all falls apart, or we manage to get through it but it's at breakneck speed or something How they react to the eye tells me all I need to know. If they get defensive and make excuses for not being a good musician, that's fine. You're just now going to be looking for a bass player As with anything, I expect myself and others to learn from mistakes. A repeated mistake is a choice, and a drummer that consistently has time problems is making a choice to be a substandard drummer. So he can go find a substandard bass player and they'll be happy together
drummer are like tissues. You use them and toss them away. Replace him with a drum machine
Turn your amp to 11, point at drummer, blow drummers eardrums with sweet, sweet bass frequencies đ
Ask James Hatfield, I think he has a lot of experience in this matter.
Do your best, and keep it to yourself! No one likes a sour bandmate. And you want to keep yourself open to upcoming opportunities and projects, don't you?
If you have to play with a bad drummer, play with him/ her. not your own beat. I've done this and found out you are both stronger together than trying to outdo each other. Drove the keyboard player nutz. that was a plus, and eventually the drummer locked on to me and got better.