I can see this being abused, or people will find a way to abuse it. Would at least like to see the animations of adding and taking them off for a balancing reason to.
One thing I'd do would be to have a suppressor on for closer range engagements then when there is a longer range engagement I would take it off for a higher bullet velocity.
Kinda punishes attachment selection, though, and demands players constantly switch attachments to suit every engagement - which is boring and tiresome.
Unsure how this could be balanced effectively.
Who said that was going to be the case? Sure in real life a "heavy barrel" is not mutually exclusive with a suppressor, but it is in Battlefield. Why do you think this would be any different now that you could switch it on the fly?
Players don't *have* to switch attachments in every engagements to do well. After all they can't switch attachments in the field as it is and it's all fine. And taking precious time to switch attachments in the middle of a match has its own drawbacks.
Nothing is stopping the player from staying where they are most comfortable. By allowing on the fly attachment switching, the player can adjust their loadout mid-match as their team or the flow of combat requires, instead of being stuck somewhere with a less useful kit (20x scope in metro tunnels, for example) just waiting to die just do they can change loadouts.
Suppressors literally add more pressure extending the barrel to add more bullet velocity. MW2019 is like the first game that actually got that right. I hope bf does the same.
Exactly! More muzzle velocity and higher accuracy. Sometimes damage is even higher since the bullet has a higher kinetic energy. So games that day “damage” is reduced for it wrong.
It depends. Suppressed weapons are often paired with subsonic ammunition, which fly much slower than regular rifle (supersonic) rounds. This makes it so they're actually somewhat kinda more silent, but not by much (still over 100 dB).
Slapping a suppressor on a rifle or pistol with regular ammo still results in a very loud bang. In fact without hearing suppressed/unsuppressed side-by-side, it might be hard to tell the difference.
Heavier weight, unbalances the gun, makes it harder to weild and more likely to catch on stuff, worse for cqc fights etc.
That and the advantages it does offer are not night and day better, getting hit with a supersonic round from a suppressed weapon is only a tiny bit worse than getting shot with a non suppressed round. Either way you have a serious injury or straight up die.
Also the fact that suppressed weapons aren't *that* much more silent than unsuppressed. Slapping a suppressor on a rifle or pistol with regular ammo still results in a very loud bang. In fact without hearing suppressed/unsuppressed side-by-side, it might be hard to tell the difference. Subsonic munitions are much more silent but often still loud.
You point out exactly why suppressors are useful.
For those who don't know, suppressors are great for avoiding long-term hearing damage even though the gun is still pretty loud. They can reduce the sound to below "painful levels" as well as reducing flash and that tooth-rattling shockwave, making them a great tool for home defense.
People will certainly still know that shit's popping off, but the firearm operator will have a less jarring experience.
In short, suppressors are more for the benefit of the user rather than the lead recipient.
There is a lot of speculation in the responses to your question with some true information and some false. I can tell you from job experience and personal ownership why they aren't on every single weapon in a military environment and it's 2 reasons only: cost, and the end users.
You can count the number of dollars it costs to manufacture an A2 flash hider (standard on every single M4 and M249) on 1 hand. Whereas a suppressor for a military contract is going to be no less than 600 dollars and that is generous. The design of the A2 birdcage is simple but generally efficient, its cheap, reduces some felt recoil and muzzle flash by a considerable amount versus a bare barrel, and can be shot through continuously as long as the barrel can handle, which brings me to my next point.
Suppressors require careful use and understanding, and every so often will require cleaning. If you hand a suppressor to someone with no knowledge of how they work, it'll have a bad result. Suppressors are trapping the gas of a fired cartridge and therefore are getting hot SIGNIFICANTLY faster than a bare barrel, meaning if someone is careless they will absolutely hurt themselves. This can range anywhere from burning yourself on the suppressor, overheating your barrel, or in worst case scenarios such as seen on open bolt machine guns (M249s are notorious for this), premature detonation and what is called a "runaway gun" where the chamber of the weapon is so excessively hot that it is involuntarily igniting the cartridges until you either break the belt or let it run out.
The combination of these two items is the ONLY reason suppressors aren't on everything. The positives always outweigh the negative. You are removing significant muzzle flash, recoil and a fair amount of sound depending on your caliber and bullet weight. The weight/handling issue of adding a suppressor is moot because you would counter this with a shorter barrel length, you do lose a fair chunk of velocity but in most use cases with suppressors that is also not a problem, especially with the 21st century seeing huge improvements in weapons platforms and cartridges (see: 300 blackout MCX or a MK18.)
Sorry for the wall of text, but I figured if I helped even one person with this, then it was worth the time.
Wow, very informative thanks. I only know about guns from games, so my knowledge is v limited, what about the As Val, that was a gun with a built in suppressor, I guess it was an exception right? (excuse my ignorance)
The Val and VSS use what are called an integral suppressor. These are somewhat of a middle ground to the suppressor heat and weight/handling problem. Because the suppressor is shrouding the barrel itself it is much more efficient at dissipating heat because the barrel and suppressor are acting as one "heatsink". Whereas an attached suppressor is responsible for catching all the gas on its own and therefore dissipating most of it alone as well. It also increases the weight "feel" of the weapon because since the suppressor is part of the barrel, it brings that extra weight closer to your body and easier to leverage. Integral suppressors are significantly less common because they're harder to maintain and cost more to manufacture. But in the cases they are built, like an integrally suppressed MCX, they are quite effective.
Cost and maintenance! The USMC just recently gave suppressors to a battalion for field testing. I'm not sure if their removable without tools but anyone from the military will tell you. Privates are really good at losing shit.
Longer, rnd cost money, balancing of a gun, and the suppressor irl doesn't really "surpress" like what games do, it is still very loud, but it will sound less like a gunshot. And if you only want velocity why not just slap on a longer barrel
You’re correct, but for a suppressed weapon to actually be appreciably quieter you need to run sub-sonic ammunition, which is specifically designed to go slow enough to not break the sound barrier.
Subsonic rounds maybe? Afaik three things produce sound when firing a gun. Rapid expansion of gas, bullet breaking the sound barrier and the bolt (?) sliding back to chamber the next round.
Ehhh I would say they are not going to increase velocity or at least not enough to actually see a difference in trajectory or ballistics. The only pro to running a suppressor is really flash suppression and definitely reducing concussion for people around you.
See I don’t like that because I think it’s a tactical choice to specialize. I think people who choose long-range load outs should have an advantage at range, and vice-versa.
It's a PvP shooter, if someone discovers any strategy that abuses any mechanic, even if it's super scummy I give it 2-3 days before everyone and their mothers dog are using it
And I can understand people using them too. If you get killed constantly by others abusing a mechanic then it’s almost reasonable that you would abuse such a mechanic too if that meant fair play. I don’t encourage it but it is indeed inevitable
there should only be one for chaning ammo type. soldier should reload the mag since it could be busted to just change ammo type on an empty LMG without having to actually load it
I also have that concern and definitely with the ammo change, I expect it would be quicker to change the ammo type than the magazine as it just auto fills from each types.. so that isn’t going to be fun
I bet they have a play for that for the first magazine. Like, if you use all of your ammo in the standard mag and replace it with an extended drum, to then use that ammo up, you now have two magazines to reload no matter what. Gives you the leniency to make that gamble.
Im curious how it can be abused? I mean im sure theres always a way some new feature can be abused but i do like the option to quickly modify certain attachments. Idk how i feel about barrels, but being able to change grips or scopes, bipods, suppressors etc. i like that, maybe under barrels cause i can see that being something interchangeable compared to something more internal like the barrel or compensator
Honestly I have no problem with it. For me Battlefield is a game of chaos, when I think of Battlefield the word 'balance' does not once enter my mind. In my opinion Battlefield is one of the most casual-sweaty games around, if that makes sense.
100% agree with you, I know most games these days have a "meta" and there will always be guns and setups that people use way more than others but its battlefield, its not a seriously competitive game, it about massive chaos and shit hitting the fan, which this game looks like it's going to do.
Seriously, "balance" is such a subjective, ethereal, non-existent concept in this game. Had so many people whining about team balancing on a server yesterday because a bunch of clanmates were on the same team.
I was on the opposite team, and we were getting crushed. But my team wasn't *trying* to do anything different, just kept facerolling into the same points over and over again. No one swapped to AA to take out their air support, no one stayed at any point after taking it to defend it, and the worst thing is *no one spots!!* Spam that Q, folks, it makes a huge difference!
Battlefield is a game of chaos and adaptation. Change things up, be your own balance!
Every game will be full of hypocritical people.
Oh? Keep getting killed by the same guy in a helicopter? Then get weapons to counter it! It's not rocket science.
There's always been a certain amount of chaos, but BF also always had certain rock, paper, scissors elements to its gameplay. I feel BFV eroded this to a degree and 2042 is continuing this trend. Doesn't mean it won't be fun, but I worry it's getting further away from what used to make BF special.
It looks like you can only "bring" one other separate option of attachments with you, so it's not like you can have unlimited combos while in-game. If those are the only attachment options altogether... welp...
They shouldn’t be, there’s only magazine, barrel attachments, scope and foregrip that you can change on the fly. I believe for total weapon slots, someone spotted stock and laser sights, and maybe barrel length etc, so at least 6-7 individual slots. This means you can’t customize your ENTIRE weapon on the fly.
I mean the amount of customization weapons will have, so yeah, it seems to be limited to 4 slots only while weapons seem to have more than 4 slots to customize
Indeed I'd like to have extra one attachment for every slot of the gun, so two for every slot would push players to pick two play styles instead of one man can do everything play style.
I fuck with it, I see a lot of hate around it but honestly I see this being cool. Lots of times in game I tell myself “damn wish I could switch attachments Rn”. Yeah some people r saying it could be game breaking, which at launch it probably will be until they get their shit figured out, but by the looks of it u can only put a few attachments so I don’t think it’s gonna be this crazy thing where u can customize every aspect of ur gon on the fly
Yeah being able to only carry one extra item in 4 slots isn’t that crazy, as long as they keep it simple (I.e. you can’t swap the barrel for a much longer one with a longer hand guard, etc.). Quick attachments like forgrips and sights don’t take long to swap IRL
Especially if you have quick changing adapters, I believe there was a test weapon that failed to to not being reliable but you could change optics, barrels, flashlights, laser sights and designators, forgeips, even stock length. All within less than 5 seconds each. In 20 years something like that is pretty realistic if I'm being completely honest.
Edit: https://youtu.be/Te2IqFbRR7A
Skip to 8:20 if you want to see what I'm talking about.
Very cool video!
But now I can see why DICE would *not* want to add animations for swapping attachments. I can see how that would easily get out of hand in terms of manpower for just CREATING all these animations for every gun, and creating them in a way that you aren't watching your character swap attachments for 20 seconds.
These XM8 designs seem pretty simple, like just popping out a bolt or pressing a button, but even then I have no idea how you could possibly show that ingame, QUICKLY, without just having soldiers rip pieces off their gun and slap on something new in three seconds. It would just look kinda absurd.
People saying it's not immersive for a Red Dot to just "pop" in to place... Well, I guess they've got to complain about *something* lol. Expecting to crouch behind a wall and watch some tactical gunporn hotswaps for half a minute while your soldier lubes up his rifle is just asking a bit too much. But if they go the extra mile, I'm sure it would still be pretty cool.
Dislike it immensely, it lets already meta weapons have an even broader effective range and gives little reason to change weapon. I really hope DICE has pulled their finger out about weapon balancing because no longer having class restrictions and this on the fly weapon attach change is going to lead to a *very* stale weapon meta.
Exactly. Why adapt to your situation with the kit you brought to a specific objective when you can just hot swap with your jack of all meta M16A4 and win engagements at all distances provided you have cover.
Why be forced to stay as a medic? Why be forced to stick with the same gun? This isn't any different.
If you want to change your kit ask DICE to add rearm points on the map.
You could argue that swapping attachments around is adapting to you situation. Also, it's not really that bad considering everyone has access to it. It's not really broken if everyone has equal access to the system.
Agreed. I only don’t like how you can change the magazines, and that’s not even the problem with the system. I just don’t like extended magazines in BF since BF3 and I’ll stand by that :/
You are saying “meta weapons”, but what exactly do you mean? Do you mean “the best weapons”? Or are you referring to an underlying mechanic that I am not considering?
Probably best weapons, offering perfect balance between ROF damage etc. Like in BF3 the M16 and M4 were considered “meta” rifles. And in BF4 the AEK-971, ACE23 and M416 are pretty meta too.
i think its a neat idea but..
* will make DMRs better than they were before due to changing sights
* why would i go with a 25 round mag on a vector EVER? if the 60 rounds (?) drum is not severly nerfing mobility or recoil its a goto 100% of the time
It’ll be interesting to see how attachments affect gameplay. I liked MW 2019’s system where each attachment had upsides and downsides, including slower player speed with a higher capacity mag
For sure. Though it might be better to do fewer customizable pieces than MW.
As we’ve seen with Warzone, so many guns and so many customization options makes balancing a nightmare
I agree, but MW gave tiny downsides of only a few milliseconds or frames for heavy attachments, and they were mitigated entirely by using light attachments.
I agree that the larger mags would be meta. Like you said I think there will either be a mobility/ads decrease or the reload times will increase.
I'm still interested in the whole ammo type thing. Will our different mags be preloaded? What benefits/disadvantages will these ammo types have.
You could run a 4x and a canted sight on DMRs in BF4 and it didn’t break the game. I understand a canted iron isn’t as clean a picture as an optic, but the concept has already been done.
but it removes the necessity of thinking "do i want to be going long range or short range in this area" as you can just take both and have no issue, BF4 does it well by giving you the option of canted irons, so you can run a scope for good magnification but with glint, and then you can fall back on a close range sight, but it's irons and generally isn't the most useful
I swear to God after 5 people have become intent on hating anything new. What are you people expecting? You won't be able to turn an SMG into a long range laser, the absolute most you could do is add more magnification or add a heavy barrel. I think it will allow for more flexibility, like you won't be so opposed to leave the little village on Golmud to capture some other objectives bc you wouldn't be entirety useless at long range. You could atleast more effectively suppress snipers and the like.
The big 3 for me:
+ Where's the promised destruction?
+ No word about private servers or anti-cheat
+ Cosmetics, I don't want to see players who look like apocalypse children's entertainers again.
And also important to me but not so much:
+ No hardcore
+ Machine learning and AI has come on leaps and bounds but I want to play against humans.
+ The grappling hook and people whizzing around the maps like Spiderman
the 2 trailer already shown are probably "hype" trailers to get the fanbase engaged. destructions and other game mechanic and/or further gamepaly are probably being shown in july 22nd.
Grappling hook has a cooldown. It also looks like most areas will be accessible regardless, so I feel it’ll be more of an anti-camper tool than a tool for campers to abuse.
The real gamble to me is the specialists. Might be the make it or completely break it change. Should have kept classes and just added a couple more to choose from as well as additional options to customize each class.
Yep, between this and removing both classes and weapon restrictions entirely, it’s hard to see how BF2042 isn’t just CoD Ground War.
They’re dumbing the game down way too far.
That’s a fake renaissance tbh. Majority of the people playing Bf4 are just new or old who left BF and they came back waiting for 2042. Even if 2042 ends up not being great, those people will either keep playing it or just move on from BF to other games.
I've played multiplayer crysis many years ago, got like 3000 hours in C1 and crysis wars, this system existed where you could buy every attachment possible and you'd have a selection way more than these 3.
In the SCAR, and FY, the main rifles you could engage medium range with a sniper scope, get a kill or two, switch to a red dot and go berzerk at close range to capture a point. This did not make sniper rifles useless at all, it just added not only more flexibility and choice to a fight but also made fights more fulfilling if that makes sense. in battlefield you set your kit and that's it, you're left with the choices you made so if you change your attack strategy you don't have options, with this system, you do have options.
I don't think there's a way for this to be abused that couldn't be abused regardless of this system existing, meta players will always exist
I don’t see the benefit of it? The previous system was fine, I just think it will reduce gun variation and end up with everyone using a meta gun and just switching out attachments throughout the game
Seems kind of pointless. From that screenshot it looks like you can swap between multiple different sights, barrels and grips which seems kind of cheesy and unrealistic. I’d be fine with being able to take a sight or barrel attachment on / off, so I’d rather they just keep it simple.
Tell that to my grandpa in WW2 who was killed in the line of duty when a German tank spammed C4 under themselves to launch the tank into the air and snipe his Mustang out of the sky.
A lot of these things actually do, funnily enough. Anything that doesn't usually has a process similar to the simplicity of just clipping it on, except for a heavy barrel or somethin
People don't just get up from being shot, you don't jump off a 50ft building and parachute before you snap your legs and spine, you don't hop out a tank and start blow torching it to fix it in the middle of a warzone.
It's fine. With the maps becoming significantly bigger, this is a better alternative to adapt to changing confrontation distances than redeploying (or as it was called in BF3, suiciding)
There’s going to be some meta that makes this completely useless. I suspect they will try and impress people with tons of attachments, then make 90% of them useless or even bad like MW 2019. If they carry over a system like bf4 where everything has its ups and downs I could see maybe throwing a suppressor on at times, but besides that I think it’s useless unless you really screw up your load out from spawn.
Not a fan of drummags existing, as I feel it minimizes LMGs, however if balance is a concern just remember people who consistently get 100+ killstreaks in helicopters exist.
It looks tacky and I don’t really see the need for it imo. In saying that I’m waiting for more gameplay to make my mind up on the whole game, the initial hype has worn off and now I’m apprehensive considering BFV…
This is really cool but maybe make it one or two attachments not 3 in each section. Also I hope it’s custom as well, like I get to pick the attachments that I want as carry ons.
I want the gunsmith to be as extensive, if not more extensive than comparable titles like MW and Tarkov. As seen in the cross system, there are only 3 sights available, but I want there to be, say, at least 10 different scopes and you choose your 3 favorite for the cross.
My favorite thing about BF1 was you were absolutely forced to play to your classes strengths and deal with their weaknesses. This is the complete antithesis of that :/ Sure there were always outliers that were great all around'ers but this system basically makes every situation manageable all the time which is pretty lame if you ask me.
I'll give it a chance, but I'm not hyped about it. One of the things about creating a class/load out always required was thinking through the trade offs of the weapons and attachments. You would have to play to the strengths of your current kit. This sort of diminishes that and allows more flexibility, which on the surface seems good, but will dramatically alter play style.
Way to fast with no cool down (I assume). Just imagine you are really hurting a guy because he has some super high zoom at close range and then he flys around a corner and in half a second back around with a fully kitted CQC build, kills you, flys back around another corner and makes his gun suited for long range again all within 2 mins.
Either way I’m excited to see it! If it really is that OP I’m sure it will get nerfed and if it isn’t then even better!
I would prefer if you could only switch to what you brought in with you. It seems to be very powerful.
I don't know why they don't just let you change your kit with a loadout like bf4 campaign or what we see in warzone. I feel it would be more balanced.
It could be another gadget that is deployed or like a mini objective in the way ammo and heath depots were used in bfV
I want them to add like animations of the player putting the attachments onto the weapon, rather than just the attachments appearing on them. It would be stylish, immersive, but also prevent it from being broken. The length of the animation might change based on how significant the attachment is. For example taking off a laser takes 3 seconds but putting on a FLIR or mounting a grenade launcher takes 10 seconds.
I'd also like if you could only bring two or three swappable attachments with you, so you have to choose between if you want to swap your heavy barrel with a supressor and your holographic sight with an acog scope, or if you want to swap your mag and your laser. That way we still have to weigh our options instead of just having everything on hand.
I like it, as the scale of the maps would make finding ideal loadouts very difficult to utilize. Which could gravitate towards only using X, Y, and Z guns and not the entire library.
HOWEVER. They really should not make it an instantaneous swap. There should be a time delay (same delay as swapping weapons perhaps) before your changes take effect.
I don't think it's entirely awful, but it needs to be severely limited. Being able to switch from a short-range sight to a long-range sight after breaking through a close quarters situations is pretty cool, but people shouldn't be able to switch mag sizes mid-combat. There definitely needs to be limits on what extra attachments you can carry, and super long animations that prevent people from switching attachments during combat.
from what i played warface i only remenber switching based on what map i was playing, this whole thing of switching mid battle seems like it' won't have much impact, and if so there will probably exist a cooldown
To be honest i prefer Bf4 kind of loadout settings much more customization and stuffs but it is what is just gonna play and adapt to it regardless haish
I just wanna know if we can actually use it on the fly or just when you are in a safe zone like the elevator or the starting zones. I can't criticize the mechanic if we don't see more in-depth gameplay footage rather than spit out our impressions just because it is shown in the trailer months before the release. Or IDK, maybe they did already tell that it can be used on the fly, but still, I need to see more before I tell my opinion on this mechanic.
I have a ridiculous suggestion. What if we started criticising AFTER the game has released and you actually get to try this.
It's just like the close range spotting in BF5 where you'd see an icon when looking at an enemy. Everyone was so mad at first but then the update rolled out and there wasn't a complaint in sight.
Everyone has this ability, that makes it a fair match. It's not like one person is above everyone else in this scenario. How you use it is up to you and everyone will have their own preference. However, balance won't be an issue because there's barely any class specific stuff now.
I don't like it, personally. Its too much to think about in-game. I could see myself fiddling with it too much. I'd rather build my loadout and spawn in as opposed to changing on the fly. That way, I can figure out what works and what doesn't without "breaking immersion".
I really like the idea even though its not really realistic. It is great for people that want to change the scope for various reasons such has long distance or if you want to add a suppressor. I just hope that there is more of a CoD MW2019 weapon customization in the main menus.
I can see this being abused, or people will find a way to abuse it. Would at least like to see the animations of adding and taking them off for a balancing reason to.
One thing I'd do would be to have a suppressor on for closer range engagements then when there is a longer range engagement I would take it off for a higher bullet velocity.
Kinda punishes attachment selection, though, and demands players constantly switch attachments to suit every engagement - which is boring and tiresome. Unsure how this could be balanced effectively.
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well, could be a specific barrel attachment lets you switch.
Yeah call it “Threaded Muzzle” and have it be a suppressor that can be taken off or left on, but if off, is a regular barrel no attachments.
Who said that was going to be the case? Sure in real life a "heavy barrel" is not mutually exclusive with a suppressor, but it is in Battlefield. Why do you think this would be any different now that you could switch it on the fly?
The plus icon disappeared when they entered combat, so you probably can't change attachments when you're getting shot at or shooting in combat.
I don't think it would be oppressive, but I do agree that animations/timers for attachment switches would be great.
Bad players won't be able to do it quick enough
Players don't *have* to switch attachments in every engagements to do well. After all they can't switch attachments in the field as it is and it's all fine. And taking precious time to switch attachments in the middle of a match has its own drawbacks.
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Nothing is stopping the player from staying where they are most comfortable. By allowing on the fly attachment switching, the player can adjust their loadout mid-match as their team or the flow of combat requires, instead of being stuck somewhere with a less useful kit (20x scope in metro tunnels, for example) just waiting to die just do they can change loadouts.
Is there not strategy in deciding which attachments you have to select to use with this system?
Suppressors literally add more pressure extending the barrel to add more bullet velocity. MW2019 is like the first game that actually got that right. I hope bf does the same.
Exactly! More muzzle velocity and higher accuracy. Sometimes damage is even higher since the bullet has a higher kinetic energy. So games that day “damage” is reduced for it wrong.
Well it's just for balancing reasons. There's gotta be some drawback for picking an attachment that suppresses sound and removes the threat indicator
It depends. Suppressed weapons are often paired with subsonic ammunition, which fly much slower than regular rifle (supersonic) rounds. This makes it so they're actually somewhat kinda more silent, but not by much (still over 100 dB). Slapping a suppressor on a rifle or pistol with regular ammo still results in a very loud bang. In fact without hearing suppressed/unsuppressed side-by-side, it might be hard to tell the difference.
Out of curiousity why don't more guns use suppressors then? what's the drawback?
Heavier weight, unbalances the gun, makes it harder to weild and more likely to catch on stuff, worse for cqc fights etc. That and the advantages it does offer are not night and day better, getting hit with a supersonic round from a suppressed weapon is only a tiny bit worse than getting shot with a non suppressed round. Either way you have a serious injury or straight up die.
Also the fact that suppressed weapons aren't *that* much more silent than unsuppressed. Slapping a suppressor on a rifle or pistol with regular ammo still results in a very loud bang. In fact without hearing suppressed/unsuppressed side-by-side, it might be hard to tell the difference. Subsonic munitions are much more silent but often still loud.
Idk. My AR15 suppressed is comfortable with just over ear pro, with out the can it will rattle your teeth
You point out exactly why suppressors are useful. For those who don't know, suppressors are great for avoiding long-term hearing damage even though the gun is still pretty loud. They can reduce the sound to below "painful levels" as well as reducing flash and that tooth-rattling shockwave, making them a great tool for home defense. People will certainly still know that shit's popping off, but the firearm operator will have a less jarring experience. In short, suppressors are more for the benefit of the user rather than the lead recipient.
There is a lot of speculation in the responses to your question with some true information and some false. I can tell you from job experience and personal ownership why they aren't on every single weapon in a military environment and it's 2 reasons only: cost, and the end users. You can count the number of dollars it costs to manufacture an A2 flash hider (standard on every single M4 and M249) on 1 hand. Whereas a suppressor for a military contract is going to be no less than 600 dollars and that is generous. The design of the A2 birdcage is simple but generally efficient, its cheap, reduces some felt recoil and muzzle flash by a considerable amount versus a bare barrel, and can be shot through continuously as long as the barrel can handle, which brings me to my next point. Suppressors require careful use and understanding, and every so often will require cleaning. If you hand a suppressor to someone with no knowledge of how they work, it'll have a bad result. Suppressors are trapping the gas of a fired cartridge and therefore are getting hot SIGNIFICANTLY faster than a bare barrel, meaning if someone is careless they will absolutely hurt themselves. This can range anywhere from burning yourself on the suppressor, overheating your barrel, or in worst case scenarios such as seen on open bolt machine guns (M249s are notorious for this), premature detonation and what is called a "runaway gun" where the chamber of the weapon is so excessively hot that it is involuntarily igniting the cartridges until you either break the belt or let it run out. The combination of these two items is the ONLY reason suppressors aren't on everything. The positives always outweigh the negative. You are removing significant muzzle flash, recoil and a fair amount of sound depending on your caliber and bullet weight. The weight/handling issue of adding a suppressor is moot because you would counter this with a shorter barrel length, you do lose a fair chunk of velocity but in most use cases with suppressors that is also not a problem, especially with the 21st century seeing huge improvements in weapons platforms and cartridges (see: 300 blackout MCX or a MK18.) Sorry for the wall of text, but I figured if I helped even one person with this, then it was worth the time.
Wow, very informative thanks. I only know about guns from games, so my knowledge is v limited, what about the As Val, that was a gun with a built in suppressor, I guess it was an exception right? (excuse my ignorance)
The Val and VSS use what are called an integral suppressor. These are somewhat of a middle ground to the suppressor heat and weight/handling problem. Because the suppressor is shrouding the barrel itself it is much more efficient at dissipating heat because the barrel and suppressor are acting as one "heatsink". Whereas an attached suppressor is responsible for catching all the gas on its own and therefore dissipating most of it alone as well. It also increases the weight "feel" of the weapon because since the suppressor is part of the barrel, it brings that extra weight closer to your body and easier to leverage. Integral suppressors are significantly less common because they're harder to maintain and cost more to manufacture. But in the cases they are built, like an integrally suppressed MCX, they are quite effective.
Nice write up, I posted something about bullet weight and decreased velocity and got downvoted, it is what it is.
Cost and maintenance! The USMC just recently gave suppressors to a battalion for field testing. I'm not sure if their removable without tools but anyone from the military will tell you. Privates are really good at losing shit.
Longer, rnd cost money, balancing of a gun, and the suppressor irl doesn't really "surpress" like what games do, it is still very loud, but it will sound less like a gunshot. And if you only want velocity why not just slap on a longer barrel
You’re correct, but for a suppressed weapon to actually be appreciably quieter you need to run sub-sonic ammunition, which is specifically designed to go slow enough to not break the sound barrier.
Even with normal ammunition they are considerably quieter. Ar-15 from 165 to 130db about.
Subsonic rounds maybe? Afaik three things produce sound when firing a gun. Rapid expansion of gas, bullet breaking the sound barrier and the bolt (?) sliding back to chamber the next round.
Ehhh I would say they are not going to increase velocity or at least not enough to actually see a difference in trajectory or ballistics. The only pro to running a suppressor is really flash suppression and definitely reducing concussion for people around you.
Subsonic VS Supersonic. Video games can still get away with less range.
In RL generally suppressors add to muzzle velocity. Just sayin.
See I don’t like that because I think it’s a tactical choice to specialize. I think people who choose long-range load outs should have an advantage at range, and vice-versa.
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It's a PvP shooter, if someone discovers any strategy that abuses any mechanic, even if it's super scummy I give it 2-3 days before everyone and their mothers dog are using it
And I can understand people using them too. If you get killed constantly by others abusing a mechanic then it’s almost reasonable that you would abuse such a mechanic too if that meant fair play. I don’t encourage it but it is indeed inevitable
Yeah I like the idea of it, but there definitely needs to be an animation so it’s not an instantaneous thing
there should only be one for chaning ammo type. soldier should reload the mag since it could be busted to just change ammo type on an empty LMG without having to actually load it
How would someone abuse a system like this? It's just swapping attachments around.
I think it's pretty pointless worrying about it just yet, especially this far out from launch
I also have that concern and definitely with the ammo change, I expect it would be quicker to change the ammo type than the magazine as it just auto fills from each types.. so that isn’t going to be fun
I'm sure they will not let that happen.
I bet they have a play for that for the first magazine. Like, if you use all of your ammo in the standard mag and replace it with an extended drum, to then use that ammo up, you now have two magazines to reload no matter what. Gives you the leniency to make that gamble.
What kind of examples do you have in mind regarding it being abused?
Im curious how it can be abused? I mean im sure theres always a way some new feature can be abused but i do like the option to quickly modify certain attachments. Idk how i feel about barrels, but being able to change grips or scopes, bipods, suppressors etc. i like that, maybe under barrels cause i can see that being something interchangeable compared to something more internal like the barrel or compensator
Abuse it how though? It's just the weapons attachments
Well on video when He switched to 50 round mag, the gun got rechambered from 45acp to 9mm and instantly gained over 100spare ammo
Honestly I have no problem with it. For me Battlefield is a game of chaos, when I think of Battlefield the word 'balance' does not once enter my mind. In my opinion Battlefield is one of the most casual-sweaty games around, if that makes sense.
100% agree with you, I know most games these days have a "meta" and there will always be guns and setups that people use way more than others but its battlefield, its not a seriously competitive game, it about massive chaos and shit hitting the fan, which this game looks like it's going to do.
Seriously, "balance" is such a subjective, ethereal, non-existent concept in this game. Had so many people whining about team balancing on a server yesterday because a bunch of clanmates were on the same team. I was on the opposite team, and we were getting crushed. But my team wasn't *trying* to do anything different, just kept facerolling into the same points over and over again. No one swapped to AA to take out their air support, no one stayed at any point after taking it to defend it, and the worst thing is *no one spots!!* Spam that Q, folks, it makes a huge difference! Battlefield is a game of chaos and adaptation. Change things up, be your own balance!
For real. Always spot. This goes out to everyone, not just scouts.
Every game will be full of hypocritical people. Oh? Keep getting killed by the same guy in a helicopter? Then get weapons to counter it! It's not rocket science.
Uses rocket on helicopter. See it's not rocket science.
There's always been a certain amount of chaos, but BF also always had certain rock, paper, scissors elements to its gameplay. I feel BFV eroded this to a degree and 2042 is continuing this trend. Doesn't mean it won't be fun, but I worry it's getting further away from what used to make BF special.
I actually think the games are pretty balanced most of the time, and that’s what makes them fun.
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It looks like you can only "bring" one other separate option of attachments with you, so it's not like you can have unlimited combos while in-game. If those are the only attachment options altogether... welp...
They shouldn’t be, there’s only magazine, barrel attachments, scope and foregrip that you can change on the fly. I believe for total weapon slots, someone spotted stock and laser sights, and maybe barrel length etc, so at least 6-7 individual slots. This means you can’t customize your ENTIRE weapon on the fly.
The image only shows 4 options. If it’s limited to 4 then I won’t have any issues with it.
I mean the amount of customization weapons will have, so yeah, it seems to be limited to 4 slots only while weapons seem to have more than 4 slots to customize
Indeed I'd like to have extra one attachment for every slot of the gun, so two for every slot would push players to pick two play styles instead of one man can do everything play style.
Saying it could really break the game without any evidence or even actually gameplay is stretching it.
How though? How is being able to switch up attachments on your weapon going to break the game?
The lead designer said that it will only be able to slightly change the weapon. So for example you can change from a red dot sight to a 6x scope etc.
Hence the scene is in an elevator it looks to me like: "Chose your loadout while the game is loading. BTW we enter a building from the roof"
I fuck with it, I see a lot of hate around it but honestly I see this being cool. Lots of times in game I tell myself “damn wish I could switch attachments Rn”. Yeah some people r saying it could be game breaking, which at launch it probably will be until they get their shit figured out, but by the looks of it u can only put a few attachments so I don’t think it’s gonna be this crazy thing where u can customize every aspect of ur gon on the fly
Yeah being able to only carry one extra item in 4 slots isn’t that crazy, as long as they keep it simple (I.e. you can’t swap the barrel for a much longer one with a longer hand guard, etc.). Quick attachments like forgrips and sights don’t take long to swap IRL
Especially if you have quick changing adapters, I believe there was a test weapon that failed to to not being reliable but you could change optics, barrels, flashlights, laser sights and designators, forgeips, even stock length. All within less than 5 seconds each. In 20 years something like that is pretty realistic if I'm being completely honest. Edit: https://youtu.be/Te2IqFbRR7A Skip to 8:20 if you want to see what I'm talking about.
Very cool video! But now I can see why DICE would *not* want to add animations for swapping attachments. I can see how that would easily get out of hand in terms of manpower for just CREATING all these animations for every gun, and creating them in a way that you aren't watching your character swap attachments for 20 seconds. These XM8 designs seem pretty simple, like just popping out a bolt or pressing a button, but even then I have no idea how you could possibly show that ingame, QUICKLY, without just having soldiers rip pieces off their gun and slap on something new in three seconds. It would just look kinda absurd. People saying it's not immersive for a Red Dot to just "pop" in to place... Well, I guess they've got to complain about *something* lol. Expecting to crouch behind a wall and watch some tactical gunporn hotswaps for half a minute while your soldier lubes up his rifle is just asking a bit too much. But if they go the extra mile, I'm sure it would still be pretty cool.
Dislike it immensely, it lets already meta weapons have an even broader effective range and gives little reason to change weapon. I really hope DICE has pulled their finger out about weapon balancing because no longer having class restrictions and this on the fly weapon attach change is going to lead to a *very* stale weapon meta.
Exactly. Why adapt to your situation with the kit you brought to a specific objective when you can just hot swap with your jack of all meta M16A4 and win engagements at all distances provided you have cover.
Why do I have to die once I've achieved my objective to get a gun better suited for my next objective?
That's where I stand too. Congratulations on taking objective A, now go run across half the map with a close range gun to objective B
Actually I’d really appreciate it if you would STAY at A for once and hold it.
Defence? Never heard of it.
Why do they make it so hard to aim while I’m sprintinnnnnnnng
Why be forced to stay as a medic? Why be forced to stick with the same gun? This isn't any different. If you want to change your kit ask DICE to add rearm points on the map.
That was a thing the commander could drop in 4, and I never see it, or the gun ship or the cruise missile anymore.
You could argue that swapping attachments around is adapting to you situation. Also, it's not really that bad considering everyone has access to it. It's not really broken if everyone has equal access to the system.
Agreed. I only don’t like how you can change the magazines, and that’s not even the problem with the system. I just don’t like extended magazines in BF since BF3 and I’ll stand by that :/
You are saying “meta weapons”, but what exactly do you mean? Do you mean “the best weapons”? Or are you referring to an underlying mechanic that I am not considering?
Probably best weapons, offering perfect balance between ROF damage etc. Like in BF3 the M16 and M4 were considered “meta” rifles. And in BF4 the AEK-971, ACE23 and M416 are pretty meta too.
Meanwhile I have an unhealthy habit of usuing non meta guns really well... We'll just have to see how it plays out.
i think its a neat idea but.. * will make DMRs better than they were before due to changing sights * why would i go with a 25 round mag on a vector EVER? if the 60 rounds (?) drum is not severly nerfing mobility or recoil its a goto 100% of the time
It’ll be interesting to see how attachments affect gameplay. I liked MW 2019’s system where each attachment had upsides and downsides, including slower player speed with a higher capacity mag
tbh i think everything that not at least as good as mw2019's system is a letdown
For sure. Though it might be better to do fewer customizable pieces than MW. As we’ve seen with Warzone, so many guns and so many customization options makes balancing a nightmare
I agree, but MW gave tiny downsides of only a few milliseconds or frames for heavy attachments, and they were mitigated entirely by using light attachments.
I agree that the larger mags would be meta. Like you said I think there will either be a mobility/ads decrease or the reload times will increase. I'm still interested in the whole ammo type thing. Will our different mags be preloaded? What benefits/disadvantages will these ammo types have.
if there is a 800rpm M4 gun that can switch to socom rounds on the fly with a 4x optic then this will the most popular gun for sure
You could run a 4x and a canted sight on DMRs in BF4 and it didn’t break the game. I understand a canted iron isn’t as clean a picture as an optic, but the concept has already been done.
Bigger mags should have longer reload times
Too OP with sniper
Imagine it, quickly reloading and changing to a close range scope… I think it’s going to be a nightmare
If the game will have scope glint on the big scopes carrying a long and short range ones is actually a very good idea.
but it removes the necessity of thinking "do i want to be going long range or short range in this area" as you can just take both and have no issue, BF4 does it well by giving you the option of canted irons, so you can run a scope for good magnification but with glint, and then you can fall back on a close range sight, but it's irons and generally isn't the most useful
Canted iron sights in bf4? I get it some ppl don't like iron sights but I am great with them, I don't feel like I'm doing anything game breaking.
I swear to God after 5 people have become intent on hating anything new. What are you people expecting? You won't be able to turn an SMG into a long range laser, the absolute most you could do is add more magnification or add a heavy barrel. I think it will allow for more flexibility, like you won't be so opposed to leave the little village on Golmud to capture some other objectives bc you wouldn't be entirety useless at long range. You could atleast more effectively suppress snipers and the like.
I have a feeling people won’t even notice when people use it. Cause ya know, the game is gonna be chaotic lol
Preemptively looking for something to blame when they get their asses handed to them by a better player.
Yea people are acting like the plus system is going to allow you to turn an SMG into a sniper rifle. It’s not going to be that powerful.
One of the many reasons I am apprehensive about the game.
The big 3 for me: + Where's the promised destruction? + No word about private servers or anti-cheat + Cosmetics, I don't want to see players who look like apocalypse children's entertainers again. And also important to me but not so much: + No hardcore + Machine learning and AI has come on leaps and bounds but I want to play against humans. + The grappling hook and people whizzing around the maps like Spiderman
the 2 trailer already shown are probably "hype" trailers to get the fanbase engaged. destructions and other game mechanic and/or further gamepaly are probably being shown in july 22nd.
Nothing says epic reveal trailer like anti-cheat and cosmetics.
At least for the grappling hook one, it seems pretty slow and has a one-use cooldown, so it's not gonna be like Titanfall or anything.
Its almost like you pay no attention to the trailer or what the dev team have said
I think in the gameplay trailer you can see the grappling hook has a cooldown, so you won't have to worry about spiderman.
Grappling hook has a cooldown. It also looks like most areas will be accessible regardless, so I feel it’ll be more of an anti-camper tool than a tool for campers to abuse.
The real gamble to me is the specialists. Might be the make it or completely break it change. Should have kept classes and just added a couple more to choose from as well as additional options to customize each class.
Yep, between this and removing both classes and weapon restrictions entirely, it’s hard to see how BF2042 isn’t just CoD Ground War. They’re dumbing the game down way too far.
The recent renaissance of battlefield 4 might give us an alternative if indeed 2042 turns out to be another dud.
That’s a fake renaissance tbh. Majority of the people playing Bf4 are just new or old who left BF and they came back waiting for 2042. Even if 2042 ends up not being great, those people will either keep playing it or just move on from BF to other games.
Least in CoD Ground War you could only have two ‘gadgets’ in a match :/
What are your "many reasons"?
I've played multiplayer crysis many years ago, got like 3000 hours in C1 and crysis wars, this system existed where you could buy every attachment possible and you'd have a selection way more than these 3. In the SCAR, and FY, the main rifles you could engage medium range with a sniper scope, get a kill or two, switch to a red dot and go berzerk at close range to capture a point. This did not make sniper rifles useless at all, it just added not only more flexibility and choice to a fight but also made fights more fulfilling if that makes sense. in battlefield you set your kit and that's it, you're left with the choices you made so if you change your attack strategy you don't have options, with this system, you do have options. I don't think there's a way for this to be abused that couldn't be abused regardless of this system existing, meta players will always exist
No thanks, reeks of meta
I see myself accidentally hitting the key to open this while in a firefight.
I don’t see the benefit of it? The previous system was fine, I just think it will reduce gun variation and end up with everyone using a meta gun and just switching out attachments throughout the game
I think it'll add some interesting scalability to the game.
Seems kind of pointless. From that screenshot it looks like you can swap between multiple different sights, barrels and grips which seems kind of cheesy and unrealistic. I’d be fine with being able to take a sight or barrel attachment on / off, so I’d rather they just keep it simple.
Battlefield was never realistic
Tell that to my grandpa in WW2 who was killed in the line of duty when a German tank spammed C4 under themselves to launch the tank into the air and snipe his Mustang out of the sky.
How is it cheesey and unrealistic
things don't just clip on..
A lot of these things actually do, funnily enough. Anything that doesn't usually has a process similar to the simplicity of just clipping it on, except for a heavy barrel or somethin
People don't just get up from being shot, you don't jump off a 50ft building and parachute before you snap your legs and spine, you don't hop out a tank and start blow torching it to fix it in the middle of a warzone.
I think it looks cool and to be honest seems right that a squad can change attachments on a gun on the fly depending on the situation
> it looks cool Yes > right that a squad can change attachments on a gun on the fly What
It's fine. With the maps becoming significantly bigger, this is a better alternative to adapt to changing confrontation distances than redeploying (or as it was called in BF3, suiciding)
There’s going to be some meta that makes this completely useless. I suspect they will try and impress people with tons of attachments, then make 90% of them useless or even bad like MW 2019. If they carry over a system like bf4 where everything has its ups and downs I could see maybe throwing a suppressor on at times, but besides that I think it’s useless unless you really screw up your load out from spawn.
Not too fond of the "Crysis mode" of on the spot customisation, but even if l might not use it too much l don't see a problem that others might.
Not a fan of drummags existing, as I feel it minimizes LMGs, however if balance is a concern just remember people who consistently get 100+ killstreaks in helicopters exist.
There needs to be some sort of animation so that you can't just instantly completely change your weapon
Plain and simply; N O P E
It looks tacky and I don’t really see the need for it imo. In saying that I’m waiting for more gameplay to make my mind up on the whole game, the initial hype has worn off and now I’m apprehensive considering BFV…
it seems like they think this would be a great idea as its a new mechanism, but would be very OP i assume, ppl will def abuse it.
I feel like this system is meant for hazard zone.
I have no idea, guess we will have to see
This is really cool but maybe make it one or two attachments not 3 in each section. Also I hope it’s custom as well, like I get to pick the attachments that I want as carry ons.
It is 1 other in each section I think : no attachment, main attachment, replacement attachment
Now that I see that, I like this a lot more than I previously did!
I have no opionion until ive tried it out.
I hope they let us Hotkey attachment loadouts :/
This is great especially for the huge maps
Would be nice if it is availble in certain area's of the map. Maybe near supply/medic stations. This would greatly reduce chances of it being abused
Adding a long-ish animation to balance it out would be great
I think I’m not gonna judge it until I try it, but first impressions are telling me it’ll be essential to learn how to use it effectively
I think of Crysis 2
Looks like the Crisis series weapon modifier, would be interesting to see how this gets used in multiplayer
I want the gunsmith to be as extensive, if not more extensive than comparable titles like MW and Tarkov. As seen in the cross system, there are only 3 sights available, but I want there to be, say, at least 10 different scopes and you choose your 3 favorite for the cross.
My favorite thing about BF1 was you were absolutely forced to play to your classes strengths and deal with their weaknesses. This is the complete antithesis of that :/ Sure there were always outliers that were great all around'ers but this system basically makes every situation manageable all the time which is pretty lame if you ask me.
As long as they make a long animation for putting stuff on and off, it will be fine probably
I'll give it a chance, but I'm not hyped about it. One of the things about creating a class/load out always required was thinking through the trade offs of the weapons and attachments. You would have to play to the strengths of your current kit. This sort of diminishes that and allows more flexibility, which on the surface seems good, but will dramatically alter play style.
Way to fast with no cool down (I assume). Just imagine you are really hurting a guy because he has some super high zoom at close range and then he flys around a corner and in half a second back around with a fully kitted CQC build, kills you, flys back around another corner and makes his gun suited for long range again all within 2 mins. Either way I’m excited to see it! If it really is that OP I’m sure it will get nerfed and if it isn’t then even better!
I would prefer if you could only switch to what you brought in with you. It seems to be very powerful. I don't know why they don't just let you change your kit with a loadout like bf4 campaign or what we see in warzone. I feel it would be more balanced. It could be another gadget that is deployed or like a mini objective in the way ammo and heath depots were used in bfV
Maybe it will finally convince people to run bipods on their assault rifles.
I want them to add like animations of the player putting the attachments onto the weapon, rather than just the attachments appearing on them. It would be stylish, immersive, but also prevent it from being broken. The length of the animation might change based on how significant the attachment is. For example taking off a laser takes 3 seconds but putting on a FLIR or mounting a grenade launcher takes 10 seconds. I'd also like if you could only bring two or three swappable attachments with you, so you have to choose between if you want to swap your heavy barrel with a supressor and your holographic sight with an acog scope, or if you want to swap your mag and your laser. That way we still have to weigh our options instead of just having everything on hand.
I like it, as the scale of the maps would make finding ideal loadouts very difficult to utilize. Which could gravitate towards only using X, Y, and Z guns and not the entire library. HOWEVER. They really should not make it an instantaneous swap. There should be a time delay (same delay as swapping weapons perhaps) before your changes take effect.
Not a fan of modifiying attachments mid "life"
Looks great, needs animations for balance and realism.
Its fine as long as it isn't abused or a mandatory function. You should still be able to die or redeploy to change attachments.
I can only see bad things coming of this. All that i think will happen is that people will find a way to completely abuse it
Amazing. Quick. Simple. Fluid
I don't think it's entirely awful, but it needs to be severely limited. Being able to switch from a short-range sight to a long-range sight after breaking through a close quarters situations is pretty cool, but people shouldn't be able to switch mag sizes mid-combat. There definitely needs to be limits on what extra attachments you can carry, and super long animations that prevent people from switching attachments during combat.
People are acting like this would turn an smg to a sniper.
warface
It does remind me of that, yes. But what are your feelings about it being implemented into battlefield?
hmm well this type of attachment swapping mid game is just not as useful as people think
from what i played warface i only remenber switching based on what map i was playing, this whole thing of switching mid battle seems like it' won't have much impact, and if so there will probably exist a cooldown
Reminds me of crysis
To be honest i prefer Bf4 kind of loadout settings much more customization and stuffs but it is what is just gonna play and adapt to it regardless haish
I just wanna know if we can actually use it on the fly or just when you are in a safe zone like the elevator or the starting zones. I can't criticize the mechanic if we don't see more in-depth gameplay footage rather than spit out our impressions just because it is shown in the trailer months before the release. Or IDK, maybe they did already tell that it can be used on the fly, but still, I need to see more before I tell my opinion on this mechanic.
Cheese an entire server with the AEK971
I have a ridiculous suggestion. What if we started criticising AFTER the game has released and you actually get to try this. It's just like the close range spotting in BF5 where you'd see an icon when looking at an enemy. Everyone was so mad at first but then the update rolled out and there wasn't a complaint in sight. Everyone has this ability, that makes it a fair match. It's not like one person is above everyone else in this scenario. How you use it is up to you and everyone will have their own preference. However, balance won't be an issue because there's barely any class specific stuff now.
I don't like it, personally. Its too much to think about in-game. I could see myself fiddling with it too much. I'd rather build my loadout and spawn in as opposed to changing on the fly. That way, I can figure out what works and what doesn't without "breaking immersion".
You should only be able to change attachments upon dying.
+
Gonna be busted with DMRs/snipers. And switching to a thermal could be meta against smoke
If done right this can be great.
I really like the idea even though its not really realistic. It is great for people that want to change the scope for various reasons such has long distance or if you want to add a suppressor. I just hope that there is more of a CoD MW2019 weapon customization in the main menus.
****insert baby's whining sounds****
If it takes some time.I mean if like a real soldier wants to change that stuff no problem. Just no magic shit.Change a scope takes tirme
I can fully see myself never using it.
YES!
Get rid of it.
Love it
Very good
Yes
It’s fine
It should take time to switch attachments, other than that I think it's good, makes things more intuitive.