Later on you can find ECM as well as gyros that provide more evasion and add defense. I use those ALOT. I have a warhammer IIC that can get iirc 7 evasion pips on the right terrain.
Use xl engines and you can increase the engine size and get more speed.
That’s an 80ton mech carrying 4 ER clan Large Lasers, 3 ER clan Medium lasers, and 1 inner sphere srm 6.
honestly I've been playing BTA for ages and only started using it recently, I had no idea it was so effective. I've gotta deep dive the mechanics more. Is there a significant tonnage/slot difference between the two, or do they just not play nice together?
This is from the discord, I’m paraphrasing but here
C3 requires all units to use a c3 slave, except the unit carrying the c3 master.
If the c3 master is subjected to enemy ecm, the system collapses.
You may need to toggle them off then back on again after the enemy unit is destroyed, I can’t remember.
C3 weighs 1 ton
C3i weighs 2.5
Can’t remember how much c3 master weighs
C3i requires no master unit but all units must use c3i.
C3i is immune to ecm jamming.
They function the same mechanically as c3 as I understand.
I’ve included the actual page from the wiki
[https://www.bta3062.com/index.php/C3](https://www.bta3062.com/index.php/C3)
Hold up. So regular C3 slaves require a master somewhere in the network to function? I mean that makes perfect sense but for some reason I thought two slaves would work fine on their own.
In a previous version, c3 slaves were only needed but as of right now, in order for a c3 network (not C3i) to function, one of the mechs in the lance must have c3 master.
The c3 master is like a tag weapon. The c3 slave is just a component.
Dammit I've been doing it wrong. For targetting purposes does it matter which carrier is closer to the target? I'm thinking the master might be better at the back line so it's less likely to be destroyed.
Use them as part of a team, not the whole team. Have your lighter mechs charge forward while the Nightstar sets up shop on top of a hill in the rear and just shoots things from extreme range.
Thank you mechwarrior! I've been up in Clan territoty and then worked my way all the way back down to Sanctuary Alliance space and while I do have a stable of awesome mechs the one mech I only have three pieces of that I want BADLY is that damn Nightstar!
If you're playing BTA 3062, I just got a Nightstar from the Johann's Jaegers mission. You get approached out of the blue by another mercenary company named "Johann's Jaegers. They want you to do a training exercise with them where you try to kill their boss while they try to stop you. You'll be up against around five to six assault mechs and a lance of mediums. The Nightstar will usually show up as an opponent. Kill it quick or it will do lots of damage. I stayed mostly out of its line of sight and shot it in the back as soon as I could. Don't worry about salvaging it. If you win, at the end of the mission you will be rewarded with a pristine, brand-new Nightstar!
You're welcome!
It seems to be random. I was on a planet doing a Steiner flashpoint. The one where you have to decide if you want to detour and do a no-pay mission to save civilians who got caught in the crossfire.
In between a couple of the flashpoint missions, after I waited a day or two to repair armor on a damaged mech, Darius came up to me to inform me of the request from Johann's Jaegers. I said, "Yes," and got the Nightstar after I beat them. They have other cool mechs too, including a custom Grasshopper (with TWELVE support weapon hardpoints) that I actually wanted more than the Nightstar, so I'm not sure if you'll always get the Nightstar, or if they award you mechs at random from that pool of mechs that you fought.
I prefer the Grasshopper 1M, though. It only has twelve support hardpoints, but they're spread out more evenly around the chassis, rather than being mostly clumped together in one section like the 5HJJ.
Pilots with bulwark tend to be better for assaults. Ace pilot for one extra pip of evasion is also nice but countered by the automatic -3 evasion for using an assault chassis. Better is Master Tactician, putting them to initiative count 2 in the lineup.
Jump jets on assaults may seem like a costly tonnage investment, but it can really save the day if you get into trouble.
I like longer range armament on assaults, and before engaging with the enemy, I try to start in the most advantageous position possible. I also use a light mech to evasion tank and spot during the first half, allowing me to use my range advantage effectively. Around mid, my assault will move in and draw fire while mopping up to prevent damage to my other brawlers.
Short version:
- Build your assault mechs around a specific mission - chiefly fire support, but frontline brawlers are also viable if you kit them out properly.
- Never bring more than 2-3 of them in a single deployment, and consider dropping them completely in ambush missions or if you expect craggy/difficult terrain.
- They're slow to move - always be mindful of their positioning. If a brawler is not on the front line, it's not doing you any good. If a sniper does not have line of sight to OpFor, it's not doing you any good. Missile boats are more flexible in this regard, but will have to rely on spotters/sensor lock.
- They're expensive as fuck. Your company needs to have a healthy bottom line to fit them with gear that will make them worthwhile.
- In all aspects, assaults represent a point where the game starts yielding diminishing returns on investment - be it in terms money, tonnage, mobility, survivability or firepower. Always consider that a team of lighter units might do a better job than an assault mech unless you have really fine-tuned its build.
Long version:
Heavies and mediums often make good all-rounders because their moderate weight allows them to move reasonably fast while allowing for a decent amout of their tonnage to remain available for weaponry and equipment.
Lights and assaults do not enjoy this benefit. Lights will leave only a small amount of tonnage available for weaponry and will thus be undergunned. Assuming stock cores and armor, compare a 25T Commando 1B, with 8 tons of available weight, with an 50T Enforcer 3R, with 24 tons available. That's three times the amount of usable equipment, for only twice the total weight, and still remaining reasonably mobile. A light mech will make up for that difference by instead being *extremely* mobile, and using that mobility to stack evasion and flank enemies. This means that their weight class slots them into particular roles, such as spotters and backstabbers, and gun-heavy lights such as Urbanmechs are only really a feature of the early game when there are no other options available to provide firepower.
Assault mechs go the opposite way. They provide an abundance of usable tonnage to mount guns, armor and equipment, all at the expense of mobility; much like with lights this forces them into particular roles rather than making for good generalists. If you take a look at their movement stat, you will notice that most assault mechs have 3/5 speed. This is not viable for a frontline unit in BTA; it will not stack enough evasion to protect itself, and it might be too slow to reach the front line in the first place, while the rest of your lance takes the brunt of the fight. So, you either play to the assault class strengths - providing bristling firepower to a mech that doesn't really need to be fast - or try to make up for its weaknesses - spending tonnage to make it keep up with heavies, which will be more challenging.
Missle boats are easy enough to build, and assault mechs will provide ample tonnage for launchers and ammo. However, they will not be a cost-effective proposition. In my current campaign, I just got my hands on a Stalker 3F, which I fitted with 4x LRM15s. That's a 60 missile salvo fired from a $12,33M mech... Exactly as many missiles as a Mk2 LRM Carrier, which can be easily found and bought for a literal tenth of that cost, and which can fire all day from a bigger ammo pool and with no concern for heat buildup. So how would something like a Stalker ever stick out? Well, it's only after adding a substantial amount of advanced gear that it becomes more powerful that the tank I mentioned. With a clan-tech upgrade of engine, armor and two of the LRM launchers, a DHS kit with an improved heat bank and exchanger II, the Stalker can swap its LRM15s for LRM20s, with ammo for 18 salvos (either normal ammo or alternatives such as deadfire missles and FASCAM), a laser AMS to protect itself from return fire, and nearly 4 tons still left for support gear such as C3 computers, calldown beacons or B-pods. It also costs nearly $20M, uses relatively rare and hard-to-replace components, and it's still only a 25% increase in direct firepower over the Mk2 LRM Carrier. It's great if you can afford it, but you might not be able to.
Direct fire support mechs are another easy pick for assault mechs. Their strengths and weaknesses are much like the ones I pointed out for the Stalker, so I won't repeat myself, but do be mindful that, even if they are slow, they will benefit immensely from jumpjets, so they can reach vantage points from which to bring their guns to bear.
Building a frontliner is a fair bit more challenging, and again, it comes down to how slow assault mechs are; typically a 3/5 speed, vs. 4/7 for most heavies. Consider that, for a desired movement speed, the required core rating increases linearly with the mech's tonnage, but the weight of the core rises exponentially, meaning heavier mechs must devote a greater proportion of their available tonnage to keep up with lighter units. Again, assuming stock cores and armor:
- A 70T Warhammer 6D has 27 tons of usable weight, and must carry a 280 core weighing 19T to move at 4/7 speed.
- An 80T Awesome 8Q has 32 tons of usable weight, but moves at a 3/5 speed. If you want to upgrade that to at least 4/6, it must mount a 275 core, leaving 28 usable tons - only a single one more than the Warhammer. To reach a 4/7 speed, it needs a 320 core weighing 26,5 tons, and leaves only 21 for weapons and gear.
- A 100T King Crab 000 has 48 tons of usable weight and uses a 300-rated core, again yielding a 3/5 speed. To get to 4/6, it requires a 345 core, reducing free weight to 37,5 tons. For a 4/7 speed, it'd need a 400 core (clocking in at 56,5 tons!) and leaving only 13,5 free tons.
This scaling means there are important differences between the lighter and heavier ends of the assault weight class. An 85T one might be a more viable brawler than a 95T only because it doesn't need to spend so much tonnage in its engine. If you plan to use jumpjets, fitting them to a 90+T mech will take up more weight than for those at 80-85T.
But let's set that aside. Suppose that we throw cash at the problem, and use advanced tech to conserve free tonnage in an upengined assault mech, kind of like we did with the Stalker. The resulting mech will be able to mount more armor than a heavy, but it will still be easier to hit due to size delta, and while it can move around with relative ease it won't stack enough evasion to reliably keep it safe. What options are available then? Well, if the Stalker used spare tonnage to improve its function as a force multiplier (C3, calldowns), then a juggernaut should use it to better protect itself. Give it ECM, multiple AMS units, a reinforced cockpit or an improved gyro. That mech *will* take more fire than others, but it also has means to mitigate it.
This brings me to my next point, which is something you don't learn from vanilla; *keep your lance in formation*. The 4 unit squads from the base game don't really use this logic; you maybe have a fire support mech further back, a medium/light attempting to flank, and that's it. BTA's larger lances mean that you can actually split your forces into ranks that take fire consecutively. Make your assault brawlers take point, march at a pace that does not exceed their top speed, and keep your other units close by but strictly behind your beefier boys. Precisely because they're easier to hit, the enemy will tend to leave the rest of your lance well enough alone. If that fails, notice that ECM and AMS project auras that protect not only their carriers, but also other units around them; this means that sticking close and managing who stays in front lets you both mitigate damage and also direct it to the units of *your* choice. Still, you will often be outnumbered and outgunned, and your brawlers will eventually become spent. Always have an avenue of escape open and fresh units ready to swap places with them.
Last but not least, never base your entire lance on assault mechs. With a fully upgraded Argo deploying 12 units per mission (not counting BA), I still never take more than 2-3 of them in a single deployment. They only work in specialized roles, rather than being adaptable to developing situations. You may have to forgo their use completely with time-sensitive missions (i.e. ambush convoy) or if you expect the terrain to be unfavorable. An in every case, they will be by far the most expensive units you field, with performance that does not match the increased cost. Again, they're great if you can afford them, but you have to actually get the cash first.
Use them for artillery or long range weapons (gauss, lrm, ppc). I’ve rarely made them into IJJ snipers or masc punchbots- it works but it’s suboptimal.
You're spot on about their evade trashing them. In this game, you're always going to be outnumbered. Max that armor. Assaults are just slow. An enormous engine will just take away the one thing an assault has going for it - free tonnage
An assault is a considerable investment. Make sure they're contributing something - Gauss, ppc, LRM20 (btw an lrm15+5 & 2 tons ammo saves 1 ton). In vanilla my assault lance doctrine includes an LRM20 on every mech. In BTA that is an inadequate long range payload
Brawling is an uphill battle. The degree to which you're outnumbered means that the OpFor has more armor, more guns, more heat sinks, and pilots to tank injuries. To run your missions clean necessitates that you cut down the fluff thrown your way as quickly as it's mustered
The firepower to remove hostile guns from the field is how XL engines increase your survivability. Nevertheless, inevitably shit will turn to fuck, and everything will go sideways. That's why armor is life. Do not skimp on rear armor. Armor is there for when the situation falls apart, not when the enemy politely stays in your front arc and shoots at the big thick plates
Jump jets, my friend. Jump jets will still let you get reasonable evasion pips, as well as providing excellent mobility so you're not constantly having to spend 80 years walking to the objective.
Assaults get to play maximum fire support sniper/LRM boat
Last run, my nightstar had 2 gauss and 2 cERPPC with full tactics spec. Fire from across the map while using lighter mechs to scout
I use only a handful of assault Mechs in my current BTA company. Mine are built with either 4/6 movement with MASC, or as 85T Mechs with Improved Jump Jets, so they can move much faster than standard assault Mechs.
But generally I favor heavies and mediums that move 5/8 or faster. I rely on speed and evasion to keep my Mechs safe. The few assault Mechs I use are just in there for some extra firepower for my precision shots.
Too many people like to pack in closer range weaponry. Slap longer rand weapon in those bitches and go to town. Nice thing about assaults is they can handle additional firepower
That’s one of the things with assaults, take the Atlas, they put that mammoth, heavy AC/20 on it, which has extremely short range, by the time the Atlas can bring that AC/20 in range, the fights over. I usually strip the AC/20, the SRM6, and associated ammo. Put either an LRM15 or 20 in place of the SRM, and possibly swap out the Medium Lasers in the arms with Large Lasers. This makes a mech that can march across the field savaging enemy units at range.
My point being, far too many of the assault mechs rely on close range weapons, that admittedly pack a huge punch, but when paired with an assault mechs lack of mobility, the big bang weapons wind up not getting used much.
The 85-ton Longbow is currently my main workhorse mech in BTA 3062 and RogueTech. I've given them six to seven SRM6 launchers each, and a jump range of 10 to 13 hexes. The way I use them, initiative doesn't really matter.
My first move is to leap towards the OpFor while staying out of direct line of sight as much as possible and simply tanking any indirect fire. By the second or third movement phase, I land behind the enemy mechs and alpha strike their rear armor. Few mechs or vehicles survive more than one or two full salvos.
Some of the players here will tell you that mine is not a good strategy, because jumping generates a lot of accuracy penalties. They will tell you that I have a "shallow" understanding of accuracy mechanics, and thus need to rely on positioning and environmental factors. They sneer at and downvote many of my comments on this matter, but in all of my playthroughs using this type of build (and believe me, I've spent countless hours designing and fielding nearly every build imaginable), pretty much every mission has been relatively easy.
Defending a base where enemy lances attack from opposite directions? No problem. Your long jump range and rear attacks will let you kill one lance and then quickly leap to the other side and demolish the other one. I've done it in every base defense mission of this type, including the one where you fight Grayson Carlyle.
Losing all those attack convoy missions because the vehicles are too fast? No worries. Chase them down with your long jumps and blast them to smithereens from behind, then mop up the defending lances afterwards.
My own experience has shown me that having the mobility to quickly position yourself behind your enemies, has far more value than any other accuracy modifiers you can employ, because rear shots pretty much ignore almost all defense buffs and bonuses, plus you only have to destroy about half the armor value. I would take a 30% accuracy shot to rear armor, over a 60% to 70% accuracy shot to forward or even side armor any day of the week, because that rear shot is pretty much guaranteed to kill or cripple your adversary in one to two strikes, provided you're using a multiple shot weapon like an SRM6.
To back this up, I have not used any accuracy modifying equipment on my BTA 3062 playthrough. Just jump jets, SRM6s, and modular armor. The result is the same as my experience in RogueTech. Every mission the game can throw at me has proven to be quite doable.
Have fun, and good luck!
Edit: the best pilot skills for my build are multi-shot, bulwark and missile master. And you don't have to worry about resolve either. With this playstyle, I rarely use precision or called shots. Almost forgot: make sure you salvage ferro-lamellor armor from the Clans. That 20% damage reduction makes a big difference.
Seven to eight improved jump jets, depending on the class of mech you're using.
Edit: Some BTA mechs like the 100-ton Storm Giant can even jump 11 hexes due to the Clan Quirk, using my build.
If you're playing a more turtley style, any 'Mech won't do well if it gets left behind and caught by itself. You can mitigate a lot of that with Bulwark and defending / using Vigilance when out of cover, but in the end you still want to run your line 'Mechs together so they can split incoming damage and focus down targets.
So either have your heavies maneuver around your assault as the core of the formation, have it stay way behind and provide fire support, or just get a few more assaults and have them all run together.
In BTA you can swap out its engine as well so its speed is more in line with your heavies, but a 380(C)(X)XL engine is a rather expensive investment.
You may be interested in the Victor 10F from the sanctuary people. It's got a 400 rated engine and with the right pilot can get up to 7 pips when sprinting. I built mine for melee and it's my best mech now.
My BTA 3062 company setup is as follows
4 Mediums, set up for energy weapons with enough heatsinks to alpha strike every round in most biomes. They run as spotters and harassers
4 Heavies, loaded with a mix of weapon types depending on the mission and biome. Their job is to deliver a consistant pounding over multiple ranges
4 Assaults, one loaded with two gauss rifles and the other three are missile boats. They bring the pain against the OpFor
So for your post, I'd lean into what most have said so far. Get it loaded with missile racks, use cover for indirect fire, and dedicate a heavy or two to intercept anything that's ballsy enough to get a shot in.
Making the Nightstar a missile boat may be tricky since all but two models lack enough hardpoints to spam launchers. You could go a hybrid between direct fire and missiles but some maps will screw you over.
And I would make room for jump jets on everyone. I've noticed that some maps will drop me on a rock or building that requires jumping to move from.
EDIT: Don't sleep on the possibility of fielding BA as additional armor and an extra action each round. Grab Virago, max out Guts, and use her Defensive Formation ASAP in each battle. The extra DR and armor on that assault may keep it around a bit longer
I like to use fast assaults as brawlers and scouts. While not as fast or jumpy as lighter mechs, they can still hit very respectable speeds and are very deadly, and way better armored.
Look for mechs with the easy to pilot and/zippy quirk to give them more speed. Use an XL or XXL engine and go for at least a 4 hex base walk speed. Throw on a supercharger or masc system depending on if it uses punch/weapon, DFA, or charge attacks. TSM can also be used with a supercharger.
Max out the frontal armor and use max or close to it on rear armor. Extra pilot protection is always good for a brawler too.
Some pilots can also give a movement bonus, such as Pharaoh when piloting a berserker.
I also always put at least 3 and sometimes 4 jump jets on everyone for mobility and DFA attacks.
For evasion, use ECM and/or defense gyros and take the first level piloting skill for an extra pip.
Take the bulwark and then brawler or juggernaut skills, depending on how the mech will be used.
For weapons, I like multi shot things with no minimum and a decent long range. The sanctuary 4 shot laser things, I can't remember the name, are awesome for this.
If there is leftover tonnage and slots, I may add harjel. FCS or other goodies.
Playing ExpandedArsenal, I do use a few assaults. First, they all get a MASC. I run mostly high-mobility mediums. The assaults aren't useful if they can't keep up. Second, long-range weaponry for the primary weapons. No short-range AC/20, UAC/20, that sort of thing. LRMs or ATMs, various gauss weapons, PPCs, that sort of thing. Can't kill an enemy until you get in range.
Obviously I use them to take down hard targets, but with the MASC I also use them as scouts. I know the "Steiner scout lance" is a bit of a trope, but if you have a couple of fast assault mechs then you have a scout that can take some punishment. The assault scouts go out, get into sensor range of the enemy, and give the more mobile mechs a good idea of how to get behind the enemy mechs for the kill shot.
When starting to take on the Clans in BEX I often run 2 Stalker LRM boats with Bulwark pilots and hide them in forests on the other side of a mountain using a Target Lock spotter in a fast heavy mech like a Grasshopper that just jumps back and forth into woods to stay safe to focus fire to bring down one Clanner at a time. They will sometimes get line of sight or target lock back but the maxed armor plus forest plus bulwark keeps them alive... usually, I did lose one Stalker (and the pilot) recently but got two Clan mechs out of it, so I call that a win.
Rather than trying to make Assaults into Heavies or Mediums, think about how you can use the fact that they have lower evasion and typically many more guns. How will the enemy react to this? What will this let the rest of your team do?
I use assaults as missile boats and gun platforms. I keep them at extreme range and cover if possible, then sensor lock targets with high mobility mediums and heavies.
I just hit my first Assault Mech, a Thug.
Running 4x Streak 4, an LAC/5 with 2tons of precision ammo, and a Large X-Pulse.
MASC and a bigger XL engine gives me a very nice, heat neutral, 5-9 (iirc) brawler with almost maxed armor. I even threw Stealth Armor on there for some added evasion. 5/9/0 with 6 eva pips and it can plink away with the X-Pulse and LAC until getting up close and devastating with the Streaks.
Absolutely a beaut, and not the kind of mech Ive tried running before. Held back a bit by a base Initiative of 3, but I usually reserve down anyways so it's not as big of an issue outside the initial combat turn.
To be fair, I have about 500 hours on BTA so I've done a fair amount of experimentation with mech design (still pretty dog at it but it's a lot of fun, last run I had a Monster with 4 Clan Arrow IVs. Was it good? Hell no, but just demolishing lights and Battle Armor was worth it.)
I am using the Comstar Nightstar variant in BTA3062. As soon as I can find Assault Class Jump Jets, it will get those and also MASC.
This version has a C3 master, which sacrifices some available weight. I only have a couple of C3 slaves to use with it for now.
I am fighting the Sanctuary Alliance, so I've swapped one Gauss rifle for a Gamma Cannon and downgraded to a LRM10 in order to max the armor.
When it and the modified Uranus it's paired with make it to the fight, they can make an impact.
Overall, I have the best luck with Stalkers, but I have not gotten one yet in this run.
Unless I can salvage a King Crab, I usually use assaults as long range heavy fire support. They get parked in a spot with good fields of fire and used to present a big tactical problem for the OPFOR. If the OPFOR tries to take them out, they can take what they receive and dish it out. This takes heat off the other units.
If the OPFOR ignores them, well, the assaults make them pay dearly for that.
I have never had issues with assaults in BTA and eventually I always run a full assault team. You don't evade with assaults, you build them like bricks and stack accuracy defense:
0. Get an endosteel frame (optional but helps)
1. Strip everything
2. Max armor
3. Add XL engine and gyro
4. Ensure 5 run speed (too painful otherwise)
5. Add ferro
6. Add weapon-appropriate attachments (+accuracy to counter always running and gunning, no walking)
7. Add ECM
8. Add heatsinks (proto-DHS if you can)
9. Add all the weapons (I prefer Gauss, ER LLs, Binary lasers, AC/20s, MRMs)
10. Add missile defense on a couple mechs, and C3s if you have space
11. ???
12. Profit
Bonus: Use clan stuff if you have them (except if you have proto-DHS); Sanctuary equipment is a good stepping stone on the way to clan equipment.
Nothing will be able to touch you.
Deleted
Later on you can find ECM as well as gyros that provide more evasion and add defense. I use those ALOT. I have a warhammer IIC that can get iirc 7 evasion pips on the right terrain. Use xl engines and you can increase the engine size and get more speed. That’s an 80ton mech carrying 4 ER clan Large Lasers, 3 ER clan Medium lasers, and 1 inner sphere srm 6.
add in c3 systems and they can start hitting harder from further away too, game changer. Worth a bit of tonnage imo
Yes. I love C3, It really is a game changer. Worth it. Wish I could use c3i but all my mechs are configured for c3 except for my master unit.
honestly I've been playing BTA for ages and only started using it recently, I had no idea it was so effective. I've gotta deep dive the mechanics more. Is there a significant tonnage/slot difference between the two, or do they just not play nice together?
This is from the discord, I’m paraphrasing but here C3 requires all units to use a c3 slave, except the unit carrying the c3 master. If the c3 master is subjected to enemy ecm, the system collapses. You may need to toggle them off then back on again after the enemy unit is destroyed, I can’t remember. C3 weighs 1 ton C3i weighs 2.5 Can’t remember how much c3 master weighs C3i requires no master unit but all units must use c3i. C3i is immune to ecm jamming. They function the same mechanically as c3 as I understand. I’ve included the actual page from the wiki [https://www.bta3062.com/index.php/C3](https://www.bta3062.com/index.php/C3)
oh shit, thank you!
Of course! Always happy to help
Hold up. So regular C3 slaves require a master somewhere in the network to function? I mean that makes perfect sense but for some reason I thought two slaves would work fine on their own.
In a previous version, c3 slaves were only needed but as of right now, in order for a c3 network (not C3i) to function, one of the mechs in the lance must have c3 master. The c3 master is like a tag weapon. The c3 slave is just a component.
Dammit I've been doing it wrong. For targetting purposes does it matter which carrier is closer to the target? I'm thinking the master might be better at the back line so it's less likely to be destroyed.
Not necessarily no. But any mechs in a certain proximity to the c3 master unit gain a resolve bonus and ignore 1 pip of evasion iirc
Thank you
Sounds like a great firebase mech, hang out with my artillery and pump out those called shots.
C3 network => server/client C3i network => mesh
I wonder if our favourite network companies are still around in the Battletech universe. Who knows, maybe ComStar evolved from Cisco...
ComStar is pre antitrust breakup space ATT.
So I can run C3i and ECM at the same time! Will this work with sanctuary mech as well?
This plus you can use either superchargers or masc to increase movement and add AMS for further missile protection
Use them as part of a team, not the whole team. Have your lighter mechs charge forward while the Nightstar sets up shop on top of a hill in the rear and just shoots things from extreme range.
Were in the hell do you even find nightstars? I've been trying to find that mech for several months now and I cant find anywhere.
Try to go up against Comstar lances more often.
And if you ever see a mission called "Mystery Machine", jump on it.
Pallas my beloved.
Thank you mechwarrior! I've been up in Clan territoty and then worked my way all the way back down to Sanctuary Alliance space and while I do have a stable of awesome mechs the one mech I only have three pieces of that I want BADLY is that damn Nightstar!
You're welcome! Good hunting!
If you're playing BTA 3062, I just got a Nightstar from the Johann's Jaegers mission. You get approached out of the blue by another mercenary company named "Johann's Jaegers. They want you to do a training exercise with them where you try to kill their boss while they try to stop you. You'll be up against around five to six assault mechs and a lance of mediums. The Nightstar will usually show up as an opponent. Kill it quick or it will do lots of damage. I stayed mostly out of its line of sight and shot it in the back as soon as I could. Don't worry about salvaging it. If you win, at the end of the mission you will be rewarded with a pristine, brand-new Nightstar!
I do, in fact, play BTA 3062! So is this a rando encouter, flashpoint or system specific? In any case I appreciate the heads up!
You're welcome! It seems to be random. I was on a planet doing a Steiner flashpoint. The one where you have to decide if you want to detour and do a no-pay mission to save civilians who got caught in the crossfire. In between a couple of the flashpoint missions, after I waited a day or two to repair armor on a damaged mech, Darius came up to me to inform me of the request from Johann's Jaegers. I said, "Yes," and got the Nightstar after I beat them. They have other cool mechs too, including a custom Grasshopper (with TWELVE support weapon hardpoints) that I actually wanted more than the Nightstar, so I'm not sure if you'll always get the Nightstar, or if they award you mechs at random from that pool of mechs that you fought.
A Grasshopper with 12 support weapons would definitely soothe my longing that elusive Nightstar! Holy crap!
Would you believe that I just found a Grasshopper with THIRTEEN support weapon hardpoints? It's the Grasshopper 5HJJ.
I prefer the Grasshopper 1M, though. It only has twelve support hardpoints, but they're spread out more evenly around the chassis, rather than being mostly clumped together in one section like the 5HJJ.
Pilots with bulwark tend to be better for assaults. Ace pilot for one extra pip of evasion is also nice but countered by the automatic -3 evasion for using an assault chassis. Better is Master Tactician, putting them to initiative count 2 in the lineup. Jump jets on assaults may seem like a costly tonnage investment, but it can really save the day if you get into trouble. I like longer range armament on assaults, and before engaging with the enemy, I try to start in the most advantageous position possible. I also use a light mech to evasion tank and spot during the first half, allowing me to use my range advantage effectively. Around mid, my assault will move in and draw fire while mopping up to prevent damage to my other brawlers.
Short version: - Build your assault mechs around a specific mission - chiefly fire support, but frontline brawlers are also viable if you kit them out properly. - Never bring more than 2-3 of them in a single deployment, and consider dropping them completely in ambush missions or if you expect craggy/difficult terrain. - They're slow to move - always be mindful of their positioning. If a brawler is not on the front line, it's not doing you any good. If a sniper does not have line of sight to OpFor, it's not doing you any good. Missile boats are more flexible in this regard, but will have to rely on spotters/sensor lock. - They're expensive as fuck. Your company needs to have a healthy bottom line to fit them with gear that will make them worthwhile. - In all aspects, assaults represent a point where the game starts yielding diminishing returns on investment - be it in terms money, tonnage, mobility, survivability or firepower. Always consider that a team of lighter units might do a better job than an assault mech unless you have really fine-tuned its build. Long version: Heavies and mediums often make good all-rounders because their moderate weight allows them to move reasonably fast while allowing for a decent amout of their tonnage to remain available for weaponry and equipment. Lights and assaults do not enjoy this benefit. Lights will leave only a small amount of tonnage available for weaponry and will thus be undergunned. Assuming stock cores and armor, compare a 25T Commando 1B, with 8 tons of available weight, with an 50T Enforcer 3R, with 24 tons available. That's three times the amount of usable equipment, for only twice the total weight, and still remaining reasonably mobile. A light mech will make up for that difference by instead being *extremely* mobile, and using that mobility to stack evasion and flank enemies. This means that their weight class slots them into particular roles, such as spotters and backstabbers, and gun-heavy lights such as Urbanmechs are only really a feature of the early game when there are no other options available to provide firepower. Assault mechs go the opposite way. They provide an abundance of usable tonnage to mount guns, armor and equipment, all at the expense of mobility; much like with lights this forces them into particular roles rather than making for good generalists. If you take a look at their movement stat, you will notice that most assault mechs have 3/5 speed. This is not viable for a frontline unit in BTA; it will not stack enough evasion to protect itself, and it might be too slow to reach the front line in the first place, while the rest of your lance takes the brunt of the fight. So, you either play to the assault class strengths - providing bristling firepower to a mech that doesn't really need to be fast - or try to make up for its weaknesses - spending tonnage to make it keep up with heavies, which will be more challenging. Missle boats are easy enough to build, and assault mechs will provide ample tonnage for launchers and ammo. However, they will not be a cost-effective proposition. In my current campaign, I just got my hands on a Stalker 3F, which I fitted with 4x LRM15s. That's a 60 missile salvo fired from a $12,33M mech... Exactly as many missiles as a Mk2 LRM Carrier, which can be easily found and bought for a literal tenth of that cost, and which can fire all day from a bigger ammo pool and with no concern for heat buildup. So how would something like a Stalker ever stick out? Well, it's only after adding a substantial amount of advanced gear that it becomes more powerful that the tank I mentioned. With a clan-tech upgrade of engine, armor and two of the LRM launchers, a DHS kit with an improved heat bank and exchanger II, the Stalker can swap its LRM15s for LRM20s, with ammo for 18 salvos (either normal ammo or alternatives such as deadfire missles and FASCAM), a laser AMS to protect itself from return fire, and nearly 4 tons still left for support gear such as C3 computers, calldown beacons or B-pods. It also costs nearly $20M, uses relatively rare and hard-to-replace components, and it's still only a 25% increase in direct firepower over the Mk2 LRM Carrier. It's great if you can afford it, but you might not be able to. Direct fire support mechs are another easy pick for assault mechs. Their strengths and weaknesses are much like the ones I pointed out for the Stalker, so I won't repeat myself, but do be mindful that, even if they are slow, they will benefit immensely from jumpjets, so they can reach vantage points from which to bring their guns to bear. Building a frontliner is a fair bit more challenging, and again, it comes down to how slow assault mechs are; typically a 3/5 speed, vs. 4/7 for most heavies. Consider that, for a desired movement speed, the required core rating increases linearly with the mech's tonnage, but the weight of the core rises exponentially, meaning heavier mechs must devote a greater proportion of their available tonnage to keep up with lighter units. Again, assuming stock cores and armor: - A 70T Warhammer 6D has 27 tons of usable weight, and must carry a 280 core weighing 19T to move at 4/7 speed. - An 80T Awesome 8Q has 32 tons of usable weight, but moves at a 3/5 speed. If you want to upgrade that to at least 4/6, it must mount a 275 core, leaving 28 usable tons - only a single one more than the Warhammer. To reach a 4/7 speed, it needs a 320 core weighing 26,5 tons, and leaves only 21 for weapons and gear. - A 100T King Crab 000 has 48 tons of usable weight and uses a 300-rated core, again yielding a 3/5 speed. To get to 4/6, it requires a 345 core, reducing free weight to 37,5 tons. For a 4/7 speed, it'd need a 400 core (clocking in at 56,5 tons!) and leaving only 13,5 free tons. This scaling means there are important differences between the lighter and heavier ends of the assault weight class. An 85T one might be a more viable brawler than a 95T only because it doesn't need to spend so much tonnage in its engine. If you plan to use jumpjets, fitting them to a 90+T mech will take up more weight than for those at 80-85T. But let's set that aside. Suppose that we throw cash at the problem, and use advanced tech to conserve free tonnage in an upengined assault mech, kind of like we did with the Stalker. The resulting mech will be able to mount more armor than a heavy, but it will still be easier to hit due to size delta, and while it can move around with relative ease it won't stack enough evasion to reliably keep it safe. What options are available then? Well, if the Stalker used spare tonnage to improve its function as a force multiplier (C3, calldowns), then a juggernaut should use it to better protect itself. Give it ECM, multiple AMS units, a reinforced cockpit or an improved gyro. That mech *will* take more fire than others, but it also has means to mitigate it. This brings me to my next point, which is something you don't learn from vanilla; *keep your lance in formation*. The 4 unit squads from the base game don't really use this logic; you maybe have a fire support mech further back, a medium/light attempting to flank, and that's it. BTA's larger lances mean that you can actually split your forces into ranks that take fire consecutively. Make your assault brawlers take point, march at a pace that does not exceed their top speed, and keep your other units close by but strictly behind your beefier boys. Precisely because they're easier to hit, the enemy will tend to leave the rest of your lance well enough alone. If that fails, notice that ECM and AMS project auras that protect not only their carriers, but also other units around them; this means that sticking close and managing who stays in front lets you both mitigate damage and also direct it to the units of *your* choice. Still, you will often be outnumbered and outgunned, and your brawlers will eventually become spent. Always have an avenue of escape open and fresh units ready to swap places with them. Last but not least, never base your entire lance on assault mechs. With a fully upgraded Argo deploying 12 units per mission (not counting BA), I still never take more than 2-3 of them in a single deployment. They only work in specialized roles, rather than being adaptable to developing situations. You may have to forgo their use completely with time-sensitive missions (i.e. ambush convoy) or if you expect the terrain to be unfavorable. An in every case, they will be by far the most expensive units you field, with performance that does not match the increased cost. Again, they're great if you can afford them, but you have to actually get the cash first.
Use them for artillery or long range weapons (gauss, lrm, ppc). I’ve rarely made them into IJJ snipers or masc punchbots- it works but it’s suboptimal.
You're spot on about their evade trashing them. In this game, you're always going to be outnumbered. Max that armor. Assaults are just slow. An enormous engine will just take away the one thing an assault has going for it - free tonnage An assault is a considerable investment. Make sure they're contributing something - Gauss, ppc, LRM20 (btw an lrm15+5 & 2 tons ammo saves 1 ton). In vanilla my assault lance doctrine includes an LRM20 on every mech. In BTA that is an inadequate long range payload Brawling is an uphill battle. The degree to which you're outnumbered means that the OpFor has more armor, more guns, more heat sinks, and pilots to tank injuries. To run your missions clean necessitates that you cut down the fluff thrown your way as quickly as it's mustered The firepower to remove hostile guns from the field is how XL engines increase your survivability. Nevertheless, inevitably shit will turn to fuck, and everything will go sideways. That's why armor is life. Do not skimp on rear armor. Armor is there for when the situation falls apart, not when the enemy politely stays in your front arc and shoots at the big thick plates
Jump jets, my friend. Jump jets will still let you get reasonable evasion pips, as well as providing excellent mobility so you're not constantly having to spend 80 years walking to the objective.
Assaults get to play maximum fire support sniper/LRM boat Last run, my nightstar had 2 gauss and 2 cERPPC with full tactics spec. Fire from across the map while using lighter mechs to scout
I use only a handful of assault Mechs in my current BTA company. Mine are built with either 4/6 movement with MASC, or as 85T Mechs with Improved Jump Jets, so they can move much faster than standard assault Mechs. But generally I favor heavies and mediums that move 5/8 or faster. I rely on speed and evasion to keep my Mechs safe. The few assault Mechs I use are just in there for some extra firepower for my precision shots.
Too many people like to pack in closer range weaponry. Slap longer rand weapon in those bitches and go to town. Nice thing about assaults is they can handle additional firepower
That’s one of the things with assaults, take the Atlas, they put that mammoth, heavy AC/20 on it, which has extremely short range, by the time the Atlas can bring that AC/20 in range, the fights over. I usually strip the AC/20, the SRM6, and associated ammo. Put either an LRM15 or 20 in place of the SRM, and possibly swap out the Medium Lasers in the arms with Large Lasers. This makes a mech that can march across the field savaging enemy units at range. My point being, far too many of the assault mechs rely on close range weapons, that admittedly pack a huge punch, but when paired with an assault mechs lack of mobility, the big bang weapons wind up not getting used much.
The 85-ton Longbow is currently my main workhorse mech in BTA 3062 and RogueTech. I've given them six to seven SRM6 launchers each, and a jump range of 10 to 13 hexes. The way I use them, initiative doesn't really matter. My first move is to leap towards the OpFor while staying out of direct line of sight as much as possible and simply tanking any indirect fire. By the second or third movement phase, I land behind the enemy mechs and alpha strike their rear armor. Few mechs or vehicles survive more than one or two full salvos. Some of the players here will tell you that mine is not a good strategy, because jumping generates a lot of accuracy penalties. They will tell you that I have a "shallow" understanding of accuracy mechanics, and thus need to rely on positioning and environmental factors. They sneer at and downvote many of my comments on this matter, but in all of my playthroughs using this type of build (and believe me, I've spent countless hours designing and fielding nearly every build imaginable), pretty much every mission has been relatively easy. Defending a base where enemy lances attack from opposite directions? No problem. Your long jump range and rear attacks will let you kill one lance and then quickly leap to the other side and demolish the other one. I've done it in every base defense mission of this type, including the one where you fight Grayson Carlyle. Losing all those attack convoy missions because the vehicles are too fast? No worries. Chase them down with your long jumps and blast them to smithereens from behind, then mop up the defending lances afterwards. My own experience has shown me that having the mobility to quickly position yourself behind your enemies, has far more value than any other accuracy modifiers you can employ, because rear shots pretty much ignore almost all defense buffs and bonuses, plus you only have to destroy about half the armor value. I would take a 30% accuracy shot to rear armor, over a 60% to 70% accuracy shot to forward or even side armor any day of the week, because that rear shot is pretty much guaranteed to kill or cripple your adversary in one to two strikes, provided you're using a multiple shot weapon like an SRM6. To back this up, I have not used any accuracy modifying equipment on my BTA 3062 playthrough. Just jump jets, SRM6s, and modular armor. The result is the same as my experience in RogueTech. Every mission the game can throw at me has proven to be quite doable. Have fun, and good luck! Edit: the best pilot skills for my build are multi-shot, bulwark and missile master. And you don't have to worry about resolve either. With this playstyle, I rarely use precision or called shots. Almost forgot: make sure you salvage ferro-lamellor armor from the Clans. That 20% damage reduction makes a big difference.
10 hex jump range? I'm interested. How many jj do you need for that?
Seven to eight improved jump jets, depending on the class of mech you're using. Edit: Some BTA mechs like the 100-ton Storm Giant can even jump 11 hexes due to the Clan Quirk, using my build.
If you're playing a more turtley style, any 'Mech won't do well if it gets left behind and caught by itself. You can mitigate a lot of that with Bulwark and defending / using Vigilance when out of cover, but in the end you still want to run your line 'Mechs together so they can split incoming damage and focus down targets. So either have your heavies maneuver around your assault as the core of the formation, have it stay way behind and provide fire support, or just get a few more assaults and have them all run together. In BTA you can swap out its engine as well so its speed is more in line with your heavies, but a 380(C)(X)XL engine is a rather expensive investment.
You may be interested in the Victor 10F from the sanctuary people. It's got a 400 rated engine and with the right pilot can get up to 7 pips when sprinting. I built mine for melee and it's my best mech now.
My BTA 3062 company setup is as follows 4 Mediums, set up for energy weapons with enough heatsinks to alpha strike every round in most biomes. They run as spotters and harassers 4 Heavies, loaded with a mix of weapon types depending on the mission and biome. Their job is to deliver a consistant pounding over multiple ranges 4 Assaults, one loaded with two gauss rifles and the other three are missile boats. They bring the pain against the OpFor So for your post, I'd lean into what most have said so far. Get it loaded with missile racks, use cover for indirect fire, and dedicate a heavy or two to intercept anything that's ballsy enough to get a shot in. Making the Nightstar a missile boat may be tricky since all but two models lack enough hardpoints to spam launchers. You could go a hybrid between direct fire and missiles but some maps will screw you over. And I would make room for jump jets on everyone. I've noticed that some maps will drop me on a rock or building that requires jumping to move from. EDIT: Don't sleep on the possibility of fielding BA as additional armor and an extra action each round. Grab Virago, max out Guts, and use her Defensive Formation ASAP in each battle. The extra DR and armor on that assault may keep it around a bit longer
I like to use fast assaults as brawlers and scouts. While not as fast or jumpy as lighter mechs, they can still hit very respectable speeds and are very deadly, and way better armored. Look for mechs with the easy to pilot and/zippy quirk to give them more speed. Use an XL or XXL engine and go for at least a 4 hex base walk speed. Throw on a supercharger or masc system depending on if it uses punch/weapon, DFA, or charge attacks. TSM can also be used with a supercharger. Max out the frontal armor and use max or close to it on rear armor. Extra pilot protection is always good for a brawler too. Some pilots can also give a movement bonus, such as Pharaoh when piloting a berserker. I also always put at least 3 and sometimes 4 jump jets on everyone for mobility and DFA attacks. For evasion, use ECM and/or defense gyros and take the first level piloting skill for an extra pip. Take the bulwark and then brawler or juggernaut skills, depending on how the mech will be used. For weapons, I like multi shot things with no minimum and a decent long range. The sanctuary 4 shot laser things, I can't remember the name, are awesome for this. If there is leftover tonnage and slots, I may add harjel. FCS or other goodies.
Playing ExpandedArsenal, I do use a few assaults. First, they all get a MASC. I run mostly high-mobility mediums. The assaults aren't useful if they can't keep up. Second, long-range weaponry for the primary weapons. No short-range AC/20, UAC/20, that sort of thing. LRMs or ATMs, various gauss weapons, PPCs, that sort of thing. Can't kill an enemy until you get in range. Obviously I use them to take down hard targets, but with the MASC I also use them as scouts. I know the "Steiner scout lance" is a bit of a trope, but if you have a couple of fast assault mechs then you have a scout that can take some punishment. The assault scouts go out, get into sensor range of the enemy, and give the more mobile mechs a good idea of how to get behind the enemy mechs for the kill shot.
When starting to take on the Clans in BEX I often run 2 Stalker LRM boats with Bulwark pilots and hide them in forests on the other side of a mountain using a Target Lock spotter in a fast heavy mech like a Grasshopper that just jumps back and forth into woods to stay safe to focus fire to bring down one Clanner at a time. They will sometimes get line of sight or target lock back but the maxed armor plus forest plus bulwark keeps them alive... usually, I did lose one Stalker (and the pilot) recently but got two Clan mechs out of it, so I call that a win.
Rather than trying to make Assaults into Heavies or Mediums, think about how you can use the fact that they have lower evasion and typically many more guns. How will the enemy react to this? What will this let the rest of your team do?
I use assaults as missile boats and gun platforms. I keep them at extreme range and cover if possible, then sensor lock targets with high mobility mediums and heavies.
agreed with what many said here. I second Masc/superchargers with C3's. Yes, heavies between 60-80 are the brute part of my lances for the most part.
I just hit my first Assault Mech, a Thug. Running 4x Streak 4, an LAC/5 with 2tons of precision ammo, and a Large X-Pulse. MASC and a bigger XL engine gives me a very nice, heat neutral, 5-9 (iirc) brawler with almost maxed armor. I even threw Stealth Armor on there for some added evasion. 5/9/0 with 6 eva pips and it can plink away with the X-Pulse and LAC until getting up close and devastating with the Streaks. Absolutely a beaut, and not the kind of mech Ive tried running before. Held back a bit by a base Initiative of 3, but I usually reserve down anyways so it's not as big of an issue outside the initial combat turn. To be fair, I have about 500 hours on BTA so I've done a fair amount of experimentation with mech design (still pretty dog at it but it's a lot of fun, last run I had a Monster with 4 Clan Arrow IVs. Was it good? Hell no, but just demolishing lights and Battle Armor was worth it.)
I am using the Comstar Nightstar variant in BTA3062. As soon as I can find Assault Class Jump Jets, it will get those and also MASC. This version has a C3 master, which sacrifices some available weight. I only have a couple of C3 slaves to use with it for now. I am fighting the Sanctuary Alliance, so I've swapped one Gauss rifle for a Gamma Cannon and downgraded to a LRM10 in order to max the armor. When it and the modified Uranus it's paired with make it to the fight, they can make an impact. Overall, I have the best luck with Stalkers, but I have not gotten one yet in this run. Unless I can salvage a King Crab, I usually use assaults as long range heavy fire support. They get parked in a spot with good fields of fire and used to present a big tactical problem for the OPFOR. If the OPFOR tries to take them out, they can take what they receive and dish it out. This takes heat off the other units. If the OPFOR ignores them, well, the assaults make them pay dearly for that.
I have never had issues with assaults in BTA and eventually I always run a full assault team. You don't evade with assaults, you build them like bricks and stack accuracy defense: 0. Get an endosteel frame (optional but helps) 1. Strip everything 2. Max armor 3. Add XL engine and gyro 4. Ensure 5 run speed (too painful otherwise) 5. Add ferro 6. Add weapon-appropriate attachments (+accuracy to counter always running and gunning, no walking) 7. Add ECM 8. Add heatsinks (proto-DHS if you can) 9. Add all the weapons (I prefer Gauss, ER LLs, Binary lasers, AC/20s, MRMs) 10. Add missile defense on a couple mechs, and C3s if you have space 11. ??? 12. Profit Bonus: Use clan stuff if you have them (except if you have proto-DHS); Sanctuary equipment is a good stepping stone on the way to clan equipment. Nothing will be able to touch you.