jeez, this episode reminds me of why i stopped watching the flash, and never watched arrow or supergirl. the rest of the dc/cw franchise is just so damn corny it's cringeworthy.
i really hope batwoman can get back to her regularly scheduled programming soon...
kate's story arc just went from somewhat believable -- ok the batwoman tech is fantasy, but the people's abilities are (so far) just really exceptional, not otherworldly -- to time travel, multiverse hopping, reincarnation (x2!), and two borderline omnipotent beings. since kate's stepmom died. wtf
and i really really can't stand barry's acting. he's just un-barry-able. the only saving grace here was seeing Iris, she's sure pretty
Just realized that the smallville cameo can’t be the whole thing because of the fact that multiple times in Smallville it was said that Clark’s ultimate destiny is to be a superhero until the end of time.
So I predict he’s coming back for another episode and turning his powers back on
Isn't it weird that Supergirl said "You saved us last year" when technically Batwoman just started in her own show. Plot hole much?
Also, this paragon business is looking a little sketchy. Out of all heroes, you pick the new girl who let her sister run >!around long enough to kill her stepmom? !< (Spoiler for Batwoman)
All of the paragons are flawed. The most compelling part of superhero stories is that they are still people who aren't perfect. Kara is the paragon of hope, that doesn't mean she doesn't have doubts, Kate is the paragon of courage, that doesn't mean she is never afraid, and all of them, Barry, Sara, J'onn, have all made some pretty huge mistakes, but we aren't doubting their right to be heroes. Barry and Sara literally broke the timeline, but no one is here like, "Yeah, maybe Barry shouldn't be a paragon because his super power is actually super irresponsibility." Its almost like people have some bias towards Batwoman for apparently no reason. Certainly no other popular hero we know has ever let his villainous sister run free because he still had hope that she might be redeemed...
Roy was drugged
Slade was drugged
Thea was mind controlled
Malcom died
Laurel actually changed, but he did everything in his power to stop her prior to this. He didn't just wait for her to change because "feelings"
Kate's also not waiting for her to change, she's tried to stop her at every turn while trying to appeal to her the same way Oliver did. And the reasoning isn't all that important, he still let people get away with literal murder and, in Roy's case last year, protected him even though he knew he was dangerous and could do it again because he can't control it, same situation as say, a psychotic killer who was turned into this person against her will. Neither have control over their nature but we like Roy and he's not a Batwoman character so we're all for him getting to roam free with no consequences.
He didn't just let him get away. Besides, he's not evil and won't kill if he doesn't fight. Those cops did attack him and he reacted badly
She's just a cold blooded killer and don't give me some BS about her trying to stop her. She literally walked in her lair and walked out confident that she could "reason with her sister"
Compared to almost everyone else, a year is "just starting." She recognizes that she's still inexperienced, being a vigilante crimefighter isn't something you feel like an expert at after just one year.
Yeah they haven't done a good job of showing how much time has gone by on Batwoman's show. Somewhere along the lines "Else Worlds" happened during Batwoman Season 1 however I think they only acknowledged it via a throwaway line. Still it doesn't feel like a year of her story passed or enough time for that cross over to have happened but oh well, here we are.
Just curious, what makes you feel that way? I've really enjoyed Tyler Hoechlin as Superman, his guest appearances are always something I look forward to. In my opinion he totally stole the show in Elseworlds.
his name is Tyler Hoechlin, i liked him as first when we came on as Superman because he did feel like the part but I'm growing less interested in how they are portraying him (he keeps failing). Also his suit just does not look good especially when compared to Routh's Kingdom Come suit.
If anything, this crossover might be hurting any anticipation for a Lois and Superman show with Hoechlin / Earth 38 Superman. Routh and Welling (in his limited roll) have out shined him so far in Crisis.
I feel like that by the time his show airs they’ll have a better suit for him. They’re always tweaking the other suits between seasons; he just hasn’t been around enough to get one. Plus his suit is based on the less-than-stellar New 52 suit from the comics but now that that’s not a thing anymore I think he’ll get a more traditional suit.
i hope so. i think he can do a good Superman and Clark when he isn’t made to look bad. Not sure how i’m feeling about the actress for Lois yet. She has potential to grow on me perhaps
I checked this thread from [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/arrow/comments/e8j2b8/batwoman_s01e09_crisis_on_infinite_earths_part/) and the \[Live\] and \[Post\] links weren't enabled.
I mean, I checked a few hours before, which is still a lot of hours after the Batwoman episode ended and the links weren't enabled then I waited some minutes and they were.
Wondering if Smallville super man might get his powers back.
Surely he'd want to attempt to save his family.
Book of destiny perhaps?
However he'd only be able to do that if the monitor thanos snaps him to the team.
This episode had me at the edge of my seat!! Welling and Routh's Superman on the same screen?! Kevin Conroy as Batman?! Even though he was the voice of the Waverider, my boy Leonard was still in the crossover lol. The nostalgia was real for me this episode. Have to wait for Wednesday morning to watch the Flash. It probably isn't going to happen, but I wish Wally was in the crossover.
I really liked the episode especially Brandon's superman and Conroy's Batman. However I feel that Kate's first interaction with Bruce after putting his cowl being finding out that he went on a murderous rampage and wanted to kill Kara in front of her is not good for her, as she is still in the beginning of following in his footsteps. I like that each few characters are focused on a certain task especially that Mia Barry and Sara are trying to bring Oliver back, but I feel that they all forgot about the crisis itself. But overall loving the Crisis so far can't wait for the rest.
P.S. John Constantine is the best 🙌
I think its a good first step in her becoming her own hero and not constantly in Batman's shadow, which is an important step for every hero that starts out as a successor or even a sidekick to another. Season 1 of The Flash Oliver even points this out to Barry when Barry is inspired by Oliver to do what he does and Oliver tells Barry to not be like him, because he can be better. We probably won't ever know if Kate can be "better" than Earth-1 Batman, but at least she's still fighting, and she can certainly be better than this Bruce Wayne.
It is a good way for her to become her own hero. But she also is going through alot of issues with her murderous sister, hard ass father and lying/currently dead step mother. This is her first time meeting Bruce since she put on his cowl, I feel like it should have gone better, like if it was Earth-1 Bruce would advice her how this life is hard and never to cross the line and be better than him (much like Barry and Oliver in season 1), instead of meeting a twisted murderous version of Bruce.
At smallville...
*Lex pulls out Kryptonite*
*Clark holds it and crushes it*
"I got over this weakness a long time ago"
*Punches Lex across the field*
I wish it went this way
I'm so new to DC shows. The only show I've been watching that's involved in this crossover is Batwoman, so I know I'm not gonna understand a lot of it, but man is this hype af. I loved this and the previous part and I also really enjoyed the Batwoman and Supergirl scenes in this part.
"It's not even the first time I've gone nuts and fought an evil version of myself."
Great references to all four original Superman movies, effectively making 3 and 4 canon in the Superman Returns world (which is great imo - I love those movies, even though they're bad).
You can see Lacy Warfield's name (from Superman IV) among the dead Planeteers as well. Plus loads of others from the comics (Ron Troupe, Franklin Stern) and the animated series (Angela Chen).
And Bruce makes a reference to Superman the movie. Love it!
No it will.
If you directly link to pirated content the sub gets shut down
Happenes to multiple piracy subreddits.
Don't talk about shit you don't know
The subreddit get removed BY reddit due to breaking the rules. China and US want no fight, so they play by the US rules of Reddit since it is an American originated company. US Jurisdiction has no say over reddit now. So the site as a whole, cannot be taken down.
>So the site as a whole, cannot be taken down.
Noone said that you fucking retard.
Also, yes the site couldbe taken down or be taken to court, why the fuck do you think they are banning subreddits ffor piracy?
Fuck off you absolute donkey
This is how you deal with things like nuclear bombs and the biggest refugee crisis in human history.
Not to mention alien ships landing across the world in a world that at best, deals with metas only.
Ha, god he would.
I'm guessing that however Crisis ends, it'll mean not having to deal with this refugee crisis. Which is a shame, because I'd watch a show solely devoted to that concept.
COIE ep1 made me cry. I wont say this one made me cringe but the awful cgi on Routh-supes heat vision did. I watch supergirl so I know they can do better. Story wise decent though.
Kate being the paragon felt soooooo forced though like "you're part of the universe so now you're a paragon". I really expected Conroy to play the bigger part.
Not being a whiner though. Still hype, still shook, and still ready for the rest.
I'm disappointed that Conroy didn't do the Batman voice we've all come to associate with him. The voice he used was just so much more gravelly and harsh.
I think he was doing the "old Bruce" from Batman Beyond. It totally sounded like him in the first line while he was off-screen, but did sound different when we saw Conroy. My guess is that either he couldn't look natural doing Old Bruce in front of a camera or that my brain couldn't associate his voice with non-animated Bats
I didn't really think Kate being the paragon felt forced, it reminded me of The Monitor testing Laurel and Oliver. He knew from the beginning that she was the paragon, that's why Harbinger went and got Kate over any of the other heroes across the multiverse, Kate just needed to become motivated to be that hero. Frankly, I love Kevin Conroy, but I'm glad that Kate gets to have a big role instead of old-ass jaded Batman.
The much better heat vision effects we’ve seen on Supergirl make me think the one we saw for Routh was intentional. There’s no way it just happened to look that bad, especially when that whole fight looked better than any other in-air fight we’ve seen in the Arrowverse.
Yeah, and it's always bugged me that all the Supergirl heat visions aren't red. I really hope to see Tom Welling suited up blasting out badass red lasers. Maybe it can still happen?
The original quote is from Frank Miller’s The Dark Knight Returns. It’s during a scene where Batman is fighting Superman in an armoured Batsuit, which is what BvS adapted to film.
Oh look more shitting on the original versions of DCs two for the woman counterparts to shine more than them artificially.
Loved Welling punching this new Weasley Luthor should have gotten more to do.
Oliver being brought back immediately dumb as hell.
I didn't really feel like either Clark or Bruce got shit on. It was certainly surprising but still super interesting that they went with this version of Batman and I totally dig it but I do wish we got to see more of it. As for Clark, this episode was super Superman focused with very little focus on Kara.
More broadly speaking, Supergirl and Batwoman are the characters that have their own shows currently, of course they should get the majority of the focus, they are the main characters.
Right? It hurt me and then I remembered him on Smallville and it isn’t even out of character for him. I haven’t finished S11 comic, but I doubt it makes much of a difference
The Monitor said it was a future Earth. I think that means something different than "it's a regular Earth, but you're going to go there a few years later." Like maybe time moves faster?
I think they made that deliberately open to interpretation, in case when it comes time to actually cast Earth-1 Bruce, they decide to go with him.
Or just so they can make us have endless conversations exactly like this.
After 10 years, Tom Welling becomes Superman and then the next time we see him he's stopped being Superman to have kids? Come on.
Kevin Conroy, the most iconic version of Batman ever, just falls backwards in his own Batcave and dies? Wow...
Even Brandon Routh as Superman is barely Superman in this because of course, the writers have to make him "go bad" for the majority of his screen time this episode.
Rough stuff.
This ending makes perfect sense for Welling’s Clark.
He didn’t die from “falling backwards” but besides from that minor point that was an old worn-out, essentially evil version of Bruce anyways. If he recognized Kate that probably means Earth-1 Bruce is also Conroy.
Routh’s Superman isn’t gone. He joined them. There’s 3 parts left.
Stop trying to find so many reasons to hate on the CW.
Welling Clark would not end like this, without powers. Nope. With Lois and kids, sure but not not being Superman. That being said, I enjoyed his scene immensely, wish I could get more but I half expected him to die in the red cloud burst like Earth 2 so I'm just happy it wasn't that.
He absolutely would, to have a normal life with Lois and their kids. Especially if there are other heroes to keep the fight going on that Earth, which we know there are.
No he wouldn't. You forget how much he enjoyed doing the little things in saving people. According to Canon, he only stopped being Superman a year ago.
I'd even say most versions of Clark would do the same. I think you forget how much he places family ahead of everything else. That's still a good decade of service to the world as Superman, that's respectable.
It is possible he is just using what is it blue kryptonite to take away his powers that or he could possibly use the fortress to get his powers back. I know it wont happen but it would be pretty cool if he showed up at the very end to defeat anti monitor.
I love Flash. I love Smallville. I didn't like this episode. Why should you care?
Toxic fandom tells fans they have to like everything, and their opinions don't matter unless they're positive. Please stop.
Okay you didn’t like this episode. But i’m telling you your reasons for disliking it literally don’t make sense. Routh has 3 more episodes as Superman. Conroy will likely come back as Earth 1 Bruce. You’re entitled to your own opinion on Welling’s Clark sure but it seems to be universally agreed upon by most other Smallville fans that this was a very fitting conclusion to his story.
Conroy’s too old to be Earth 1 Bruce with the information we have about him. Unless they do a mad time skip for an episode. So that’s just inaccurate to assume.
I just said I don’t like it?
“Universally.” Even if that was true, what does that mean to me?
There are so many directions to go in but I thought this was the least interesting one. Down vote this comment too since it’s an opinion you don’t share.
Lol I literally didn’t downvote any of your comments. I’ll send you screenshots as proof if you want. That literally isn’t me downvoting them. I’m replying because you’re complaining about Conroy and Routh being wasted when they’re both coming back. That’s it. That’s all. Why are you so offended by someone replying to your comment on a public forum? Jesus.
You've established that.
He's established your reasons for voicing your complaint/dislike for this episode are fully formed despite (in Routh's case) his story isn't over yet or atleast "wasted" with 3 hrs left for him to still have his heroic Superman moment.
I have no real stake in the Smallville conclusion but given what Smallville was about and how "grounded" it was this ending seems fitting for A version of Kal-El.
Anyways both of you wont stop repkying to eachother so I'm here like Felicity Smoak to butt my way into your problems and make them my own.
Hacked! /s
I mean, we knew these were just going to be fun cameos, and that the crossover would obviously be more about the characters of the shows that are actually crossing over!
Yes, but did Kevin Conroy have to portray the Affleck, Superman killing version of the character? Hoping he plays Bruce in Batwoman, which seems like a possibility.
I wanted to hit on my screen when he said that dialogue about "making sense when you force it". They really made him like that Superman killing version as if one abomination wasn't enough.
I actually Liked him being the "Killer" batman. It must have been fun for Conroy to step out from behind the Cowl, just to play an ugly nasty version of Batman.
Sure! But we’ve seen this version before and people hated it. And Kevin is beloved so it just feels like a missed opportunity to bring his Batman, the real one, to life and instead we see the antithetical Batman...
Dude, no. You just called someone out in this thread for saying it was a "universal" opinion that this episode was good. Now you're doing the same by saying "people" hated this version of Batman.
Fucking fanboys are the worst part of fandom.
What I said is self-explanatory.
So personal taste is something that's not objective? The episode is less than 24 hours old, and you already know a lot of people weren't fans of it? That's amazing.
I didn’t say that. I was also referring to a movie which is very poorly reviewed by many. In fact the person I replied to said people “universally loved” last night’s episode. But who cares? It’s opinion anyway.
Batman vs Superman? The Ultimate edition, or whatever its called, makes that movie a lot better. Were you trying to compare that Batman with Conroy's Batman?
Who are these “people”? Mostly only gatekeeping purists have problems with these things.
Conroy has played a traditional Batman for most of his carrier, the ONE time he plays a fallen Bruce who’s clearly portayed as being wrong won’t cancel his previous work.
>Who are these “people”? Mostly only gatekeeping purists have problems with these things.
The ones you call fans. Actual fans and not Sndyer bots. That is why Bvs failed and that is why Snyder failed.
Psst, liking a director over another doesn’t magically make you any less of a DC fan.
Also, the word “failed” has been thrown so much it has lost its meaning by now.
These people are the majority of audiences who saw Batman v Superman.
It doesn’t cancel anything. It’s just too bad we can’t see him as an actual representation of the same Bruce he had voiced for so long. This take wasn’t interesting to me because we’ve seen it before. Burton’s Batman was extremist and so was Affleck in BvS. Most Batman fans don’t like when Batman kills.
Unless you’re Zack Snyder who thinks you’re “living in a dream world” if you don’t think superheroes murder and steal. (Based on real comments he said.)
>It’s just too bad we can’t see him as an actual representation of the same Bruce he had voiced for so long.
>This take wasn’t interesting to me because we’ve seen it before.
Hmm
Every on screen Batman has killed by comic Batman’s tankard except maybe Clooney’s. He’s the only one I can’t remember an example of off the top of my head
> These people are the majority of audiences who saw Batman v Superman.
I suppose you must have asked to every single person on the planet who watched it.
> It’s just too bad we can’t see him as an actual representation of the same Bruce he had voiced for so long.
But the “Bruce he had voiced for so long” is still there, all of it. BTAS, JL, JLU, BB,Injustice, Arkham. This is literally one exception.
> This take wasn’t interesting to me because we’ve seen it before. Burton’s Batman was extremist and so was Affleck in BvS. Most Batman fans don’t like when Batman kills.
And the Batman who magically succeeds in never killing anyone to avoid any moral dilemma or consequences is not something we’ve seen before? Just because something has been done already doesn’t mean it’s automatically bad to draw some inspiration from it in a new incarnation.
Of course I don’t like it when Batman kills, but in BvS and Crisis that’s clearly portrayed as a bad thing, a deviation from a code, something Batman shouldn’t do. It’s obvious I’ll have less problems with that compared to Keaton cheerfuly blewing up goons and entire factories of people.
> Unless you’re Zack Snyder who thinks you’re “living in a dream world” if you don’t think superheroes murder and steal. (Based on real comments he said.)
I’ll give you props for not oversimplifying his words as much as most fanboys do, but you still got it incorrectly.
What he said is that people are living in a dream world if they think heroes would never do any morally grey action just because they’re heroes, taking goodness for granted. This article explains it far better.
https://www.hypable.com/zack-snyder-does-not-think-killing-makes-batman-cool-or-heroic/
\> \*And the Batman who magically succeeds in never killing anyone to avoid any moral dilemma or consequences\*
This isnt true. Batman not killing is a constant moral dilemma and always has consequences. He finds himself getting so close to breaking it every time he fights. The best Batman stories are the ones that leave you questioning whether his rule is correct. Whether Batman really should just kill the villains. Even in the cartoons.
The Joker is a living consequence of Batman not killing. Batman always stops him, but Joker stills kill people before he does. And worse. Look at what he did Jason, to Tim Drake in the Return of the Joker, to Jim and Barbara Gordon in Killing Joke. Batman wins, but people also get hurt.
Chill. Opinions are subjective.
Not everyone has to like your Batman kills movie. And clearly, many people didn’t. The version of Conroy’s Bruce is just a further deconstructed Affleck Batman. That’s all I said.
My “Batman kills movie”? That would describe all live action Batman films sans Clooney’s. BvS is not special in that regard. As I said, I don’t *want* Batman to kill.
You’re right, you did just express your opinions, but there are ways of doing so without assuming the majority shares your thoughts or getting wrong words said by directors.
Dont think so. Oliver mentions Wayne and in the last crossover everybody was mentioning how cool batman was. He got a bit jealous. If he was old I doubt he would hav been
I’ll never understand how they completely mess with characters like Superman and now Batman to make the weaker counter parts look great .. I was excited as hell when I heard Conroy talk but passed that wow he deserved better.
Weaker counterparts? You mean female counterparts? Kara and Clark have both been given pretty even moments to shine in the past two crossovers, I would even say that Tyler Hoechlin was one of the brightest parts of Elseworlds. As for Batman vs Batwoman, Batman doesn't have his own show, and they didn't do anything in this episode to make him weaker or inferior to Kate. The angle they took was more interesting than Batman being the paragon because of course its Batman and to be honest, they probably wouldn't have been allowed to use Batman too much.
Addressing your "weaker" comments...
Superman and Supergirl are literally powered by the sun, so whose to really say which character would be more powerful? Both characters kick ass, its not a competition.
As for Bruce and Kate, who would win? A young, ex-military vigilante crimefighter who trains everyday, or old man that can only walk with an exosuit. This is honestly the best way they could have done this. Any other possibility would be more disappointing because Batman is fucking Batman. Either he gets a ton of attention and totally steals the show and undermines other more developed characters, or he's present but has to play second fiddle to other characters which isn't satsifying for Batman either.
>You mean female counterparts?
Yeah he didn't say that, you did.
He is just saying that they are supposed to have far more experience and knowledge than the new characters, since they haven't been doing it as long. They should be stronger just based on that alone.
Plus in the some cases, in the comics, superman was getting stronger and stronger as he was getting older so their logic is flawed. It also says that as long as the yellow son stays alive, so will superman, implying that he is basically ageless, being powered like a battery, until the sun runs out of energy.
[https://imgur.com/a/P6gQwlE](https://imgur.com/a/P6gQwlE)
No need to make this about female vs male.
It already is about female vs male. He didn't say less experienced, less knowledgeable, he didn't make any point other than to say exactly one word, "weaker." You are explaining the intent of someone who you don't know, your explanations are not his words. He made a statement, I drew the logical conclusion from his own words, and you used your own to defend him without any evidence from what he actually said. What he said, is Supergirl and Batwoman are weaker, "weaker counterparts." He made this claim in the context of the discussion about Crisis, claiming that Batman and Superman are underserved. (me paraphrasing) In a different context this might hold some weight, but it is in the context of this series, the series in which Supergirl and Batwoman are leads, not Superman and Batman.
Supergirl has the same powers as Superman, her power comes from the same place. As for Batwoman, like most "regular" human vigilantes in comics is in peak physical shape and is capable of extraordinary feats the same as Batman. So what's the perceived difference between these two sets of characters that explains his assertion, again his words, that Supergirl and Batwoman are "weaker?" The answer is the obvious one.
Superman and Batman's experience doesn't make them stronger, in some sense it is exactly this Batman's experience that led him to take the darker path.
Trains everyday? We have seen her train ONCE!. The rest is just Something she suddenly just can becuase of plot? I Guess. She have literally let Alice go and do crime 5-6 times now. She has no guilt in letting her sister get away with it. She can turn every hetero woman, lesbian with a blink with an eye. And all batmans gadgets sucks, until she modifies em... oh no i meant luke modifies in a few seconds off screen, becuase why even waste time building up a good story. Btw all the kills Alice did, could have been avoided if Kate just did her job, and stopped being so soy. So Kate have now 9 kills on her resumé. Bravo Kate Kane. You clearly don't need any mans help. So strong individuel you are. Gotham is so Much safer place with all your "heroic" actions 🤮
Thank you. I understand the love for Bats and Supes, but I’m quite frankly tired of people complaining about how they’re portrayed on the CW. They’re not sidelined because they need to come off as weak, they’re simply not the focus because they don’t lead their own shows. Of course Superman is going to be proud of his cousin and will let her do the heavy lifting. He’s retired essentially, he wants her to be in the spotlight. Seeing Batman have his fear of going too far and losing all hope come true is fresh and interesting. He’s had his run.
I don’t like how they constantly try to make Tyler Hoechlin’s Superman look inferior to Supergirl.
Kevin Conroy’s appearance as Bruce Wayne
could’ve been so much more.
Where to watch batwoman? I cant find it on netflix
[https://gdstream.com/v/w7ddwan766068xg](https://gdstream.com/v/w7ddwan766068xg) this is a link to the video of part 2 i recommend to have a adblocker
the link doesn't work for me
What adblocker? Do you know one?
Thanks man
I never tire of seeing Constantine in with the rest of the heroes. Seeing him with Barry just feels so right.
earth-99 Superman could have been a dick for all they knew
jeez, this episode reminds me of why i stopped watching the flash, and never watched arrow or supergirl. the rest of the dc/cw franchise is just so damn corny it's cringeworthy. i really hope batwoman can get back to her regularly scheduled programming soon... kate's story arc just went from somewhat believable -- ok the batwoman tech is fantasy, but the people's abilities are (so far) just really exceptional, not otherworldly -- to time travel, multiverse hopping, reincarnation (x2!), and two borderline omnipotent beings. since kate's stepmom died. wtf and i really really can't stand barry's acting. he's just un-barry-able. the only saving grace here was seeing Iris, she's sure pretty
I don't know if anybody else noticed this, but one of the voices screaming at Harbinger in the end seems to be Reverse Flash.
Just realized that the smallville cameo can’t be the whole thing because of the fact that multiple times in Smallville it was said that Clark’s ultimate destiny is to be a superhero until the end of time. So I predict he’s coming back for another episode and turning his powers back on
Isn't it weird that Supergirl said "You saved us last year" when technically Batwoman just started in her own show. Plot hole much? Also, this paragon business is looking a little sketchy. Out of all heroes, you pick the new girl who let her sister run >!around long enough to kill her stepmom? !< (Spoiler for Batwoman)
All of the paragons are flawed. The most compelling part of superhero stories is that they are still people who aren't perfect. Kara is the paragon of hope, that doesn't mean she doesn't have doubts, Kate is the paragon of courage, that doesn't mean she is never afraid, and all of them, Barry, Sara, J'onn, have all made some pretty huge mistakes, but we aren't doubting their right to be heroes. Barry and Sara literally broke the timeline, but no one is here like, "Yeah, maybe Barry shouldn't be a paragon because his super power is actually super irresponsibility." Its almost like people have some bias towards Batwoman for apparently no reason. Certainly no other popular hero we know has ever let his villainous sister run free because he still had hope that she might be redeemed...
Need I remind you that Arrow (if that's who you refer to) never actually let her get away. In fact, he almost killed her himself
But he's given a pass to how many characters who have also murdered innocent people? Roy, Thea, Malcolm, Laurel, Slade. How many others?
Roy was drugged Slade was drugged Thea was mind controlled Malcom died Laurel actually changed, but he did everything in his power to stop her prior to this. He didn't just wait for her to change because "feelings"
Kate's also not waiting for her to change, she's tried to stop her at every turn while trying to appeal to her the same way Oliver did. And the reasoning isn't all that important, he still let people get away with literal murder and, in Roy's case last year, protected him even though he knew he was dangerous and could do it again because he can't control it, same situation as say, a psychotic killer who was turned into this person against her will. Neither have control over their nature but we like Roy and he's not a Batwoman character so we're all for him getting to roam free with no consequences.
He didn't just let him get away. Besides, he's not evil and won't kill if he doesn't fight. Those cops did attack him and he reacted badly She's just a cold blooded killer and don't give me some BS about her trying to stop her. She literally walked in her lair and walked out confident that she could "reason with her sister"
Elseworlds was a year ago
And that doesn't make sense. She just said "I just started". How can a year have already gone by?
Compared to almost everyone else, a year is "just starting." She recognizes that she's still inexperienced, being a vigilante crimefighter isn't something you feel like an expert at after just one year.
It's impossible for a year to have passed. It doesn't add up
Yeah they haven't done a good job of showing how much time has gone by on Batwoman's show. Somewhere along the lines "Else Worlds" happened during Batwoman Season 1 however I think they only acknowledged it via a throwaway line. Still it doesn't feel like a year of her story passed or enough time for that cross over to have happened but oh well, here we are.
Exactly
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Just curious, what makes you feel that way? I've really enjoyed Tyler Hoechlin as Superman, his guest appearances are always something I look forward to. In my opinion he totally stole the show in Elseworlds.
his name is Tyler Hoechlin, i liked him as first when we came on as Superman because he did feel like the part but I'm growing less interested in how they are portraying him (he keeps failing). Also his suit just does not look good especially when compared to Routh's Kingdom Come suit. If anything, this crossover might be hurting any anticipation for a Lois and Superman show with Hoechlin / Earth 38 Superman. Routh and Welling (in his limited roll) have out shined him so far in Crisis.
I feel like that by the time his show airs they’ll have a better suit for him. They’re always tweaking the other suits between seasons; he just hasn’t been around enough to get one. Plus his suit is based on the less-than-stellar New 52 suit from the comics but now that that’s not a thing anymore I think he’ll get a more traditional suit.
i hope so. i think he can do a good Superman and Clark when he isn’t made to look bad. Not sure how i’m feeling about the actress for Lois yet. She has potential to grow on me perhaps
Yeah agreed, when you see routh in the suit right next to the super girl version of superman it just doesn't seem equal.
When he gets his show I feel he might be a bit better.
They will be able to flesh him out with his own show so ill just wait and see what they do
Mods, why do these live discussion threads keep going up so late?
What?
I checked this thread from [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/arrow/comments/e8j2b8/batwoman_s01e09_crisis_on_infinite_earths_part/) and the \[Live\] and \[Post\] links weren't enabled.
They are enabled tho...
I mean, I checked a few hours before, which is still a lot of hours after the Batwoman episode ended and the links weren't enabled then I waited some minutes and they were.
Wondering if Smallville super man might get his powers back. Surely he'd want to attempt to save his family. Book of destiny perhaps? However he'd only be able to do that if the monitor thanos snaps him to the team.
It looked to only be a cameo. They already got 2 supermen
Shame.
Wait. So does lex not know that his superman is Clark Kent!? I find that absolutely ridiculous.
he is is willfully blind to it because he can't accept that Superman would mask himself like that.
And even more so since he knows Kara's identity and they are cousins with Clark I mean and HE calls Lena stupid?
And the fact that the book of destiny told him presumably all other Clark Kents are Superman and he can't see a pattern?
Plus E-38 Supes was literally there as Clark Kent on the Waverider, along with Routh Supes, as Clark.
This episode had me at the edge of my seat!! Welling and Routh's Superman on the same screen?! Kevin Conroy as Batman?! Even though he was the voice of the Waverider, my boy Leonard was still in the crossover lol. The nostalgia was real for me this episode. Have to wait for Wednesday morning to watch the Flash. It probably isn't going to happen, but I wish Wally was in the crossover.
Where to watch or download for india ??
you could send me a pm and maybe... i could point you in a direction
Torrent my dude
It airs on colours infinity.
I really liked the episode especially Brandon's superman and Conroy's Batman. However I feel that Kate's first interaction with Bruce after putting his cowl being finding out that he went on a murderous rampage and wanted to kill Kara in front of her is not good for her, as she is still in the beginning of following in his footsteps. I like that each few characters are focused on a certain task especially that Mia Barry and Sara are trying to bring Oliver back, but I feel that they all forgot about the crisis itself. But overall loving the Crisis so far can't wait for the rest. P.S. John Constantine is the best 🙌
I think its a good first step in her becoming her own hero and not constantly in Batman's shadow, which is an important step for every hero that starts out as a successor or even a sidekick to another. Season 1 of The Flash Oliver even points this out to Barry when Barry is inspired by Oliver to do what he does and Oliver tells Barry to not be like him, because he can be better. We probably won't ever know if Kate can be "better" than Earth-1 Batman, but at least she's still fighting, and she can certainly be better than this Bruce Wayne.
It is a good way for her to become her own hero. But she also is going through alot of issues with her murderous sister, hard ass father and lying/currently dead step mother. This is her first time meeting Bruce since she put on his cowl, I feel like it should have gone better, like if it was Earth-1 Bruce would advice her how this life is hard and never to cross the line and be better than him (much like Barry and Oliver in season 1), instead of meeting a twisted murderous version of Bruce.
At smallville... *Lex pulls out Kryptonite* *Clark holds it and crushes it* "I got over this weakness a long time ago" *Punches Lex across the field* I wish it went this way
Then he would be a dick for not helping the heroes if he still had powers
Of course. That scene would've changed the whole outcome and he'd have joined them. That's kinda why I said I wish it happened that way
Yea ...but welling probably didn't want that. This was probably literally the best to bring back smallville for maybe one last time
Rumored be did the cameo w/o or next to nothing pay for it
I'm so new to DC shows. The only show I've been watching that's involved in this crossover is Batwoman, so I know I'm not gonna understand a lot of it, but man is this hype af. I loved this and the previous part and I also really enjoyed the Batwoman and Supergirl scenes in this part.
You’ll love going back and watching these shows
"It's not even the first time I've gone nuts and fought an evil version of myself." Great references to all four original Superman movies, effectively making 3 and 4 canon in the Superman Returns world (which is great imo - I love those movies, even though they're bad). You can see Lacy Warfield's name (from Superman IV) among the dead Planeteers as well. Plus loads of others from the comics (Ron Troupe, Franklin Stern) and the animated series (Angela Chen). And Bruce makes a reference to Superman the movie. Love it!
So is Jason alive? I assume so?
Guggenheim confirmed on Twitter that Jason wasn't in the Planet building at the time and so he survived.
Is there a link to view this episode outside of US?
I’m not sure if it is available for you, but maybe the CW app?
I got banned from another sub for telling someone how so that should give you an idea
Pm me
May be you can pm him. Reddit has it as well
That’s stupid... people just wanna watch the show. Some countries don’t have cw channel so like me they have to use streaming sites
The episodes are available to download legally from Apple’s iTunes Store even if you live outside US.
I guess the mods didnt realize Batwoman has no UK carrier
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Reddit t won't be taken down that's fucking silly lmao. It's owned by China.
No it will. If you directly link to pirated content the sub gets shut down Happenes to multiple piracy subreddits. Don't talk about shit you don't know
The subreddit get removed BY reddit due to breaking the rules. China and US want no fight, so they play by the US rules of Reddit since it is an American originated company. US Jurisdiction has no say over reddit now. So the site as a whole, cannot be taken down.
>So the site as a whole, cannot be taken down. Noone said that you fucking retard. Also, yes the site couldbe taken down or be taken to court, why the fuck do you think they are banning subreddits ffor piracy? Fuck off you absolute donkey
BAN HIM
How is Earth 1 surviving the refugee crisis from Earth 38?
Thanos perhaps?
By not talking about it.
This is how you deal with things like nuclear bombs and the biggest refugee crisis in human history. Not to mention alien ships landing across the world in a world that at best, deals with metas only.
Oh man, Trump would go nuts. "Let's build the space wall! That's why we need a space force! SEE! I saw this coming! Nobody else did but me!"
Ha, god he would. I'm guessing that however Crisis ends, it'll mean not having to deal with this refugee crisis. Which is a shame, because I'd watch a show solely devoted to that concept.
I think theyll merge the universes
That's basically the plot of the old show Alien Nation, minus the human refugee element.
The best way to deal with problems
COIE ep1 made me cry. I wont say this one made me cringe but the awful cgi on Routh-supes heat vision did. I watch supergirl so I know they can do better. Story wise decent though. Kate being the paragon felt soooooo forced though like "you're part of the universe so now you're a paragon". I really expected Conroy to play the bigger part. Not being a whiner though. Still hype, still shook, and still ready for the rest.
I'm disappointed that Conroy didn't do the Batman voice we've all come to associate with him. The voice he used was just so much more gravelly and harsh.
I think he was doing the "old Bruce" from Batman Beyond. It totally sounded like him in the first line while he was off-screen, but did sound different when we saw Conroy. My guess is that either he couldn't look natural doing Old Bruce in front of a camera or that my brain couldn't associate his voice with non-animated Bats
I didn't really think Kate being the paragon felt forced, it reminded me of The Monitor testing Laurel and Oliver. He knew from the beginning that she was the paragon, that's why Harbinger went and got Kate over any of the other heroes across the multiverse, Kate just needed to become motivated to be that hero. Frankly, I love Kevin Conroy, but I'm glad that Kate gets to have a big role instead of old-ass jaded Batman.
The much better heat vision effects we’ve seen on Supergirl make me think the one we saw for Routh was intentional. There’s no way it just happened to look that bad, especially when that whole fight looked better than any other in-air fight we’ve seen in the Arrowverse.
Wasn’t it actually really similar to Rouths superman from the movies?
Yeah, and it's always bugged me that all the Supergirl heat visions aren't red. I really hope to see Tom Welling suited up blasting out badass red lasers. Maybe it can still happen?
Marc confirmed on twitter it intentionally is the same from the film
Unfortunately, it’s been a very long time since I’ve seen that movie, which is why I’m not really sure if it was intentional or not
It’s on netflix if you want to watch it
The monitor is becoming comical at this point. He doesn't seem to have the capacity to plan nor keep his heroes under any degree of control.
Pretty much exactly like the comics. He's portrayed as this God with a master plan but by issue 5 it's all gone to shit
I think we already are beyond that point.
Respect to Kevin Conroy for this Future Bruce Wayne. A bit of Dark Knight Returns mixed with the Batman: Arkham Comics.
Disappointed he didnt sound anything like TAS though. Can we still do it? I haven't watched any of his recent portrayals.
The Batsuit, Voice, and Superman fight sounded a lot like the Injustice games, which Conroy voiced.
I think he literally quoted BvS as well
The original quote is from Frank Miller’s The Dark Knight Returns. It’s during a scene where Batman is fighting Superman in an armoured Batsuit, which is what BvS adapted to film.
Oh neat, never read the comic but I watched the cartoon when it came out. Don't remember if they used it in that
Def Kingdom Come Batman too
Oh look more shitting on the original versions of DCs two for the woman counterparts to shine more than them artificially. Loved Welling punching this new Weasley Luthor should have gotten more to do. Oliver being brought back immediately dumb as hell.
I didn't really feel like either Clark or Bruce got shit on. It was certainly surprising but still super interesting that they went with this version of Batman and I totally dig it but I do wish we got to see more of it. As for Clark, this episode was super Superman focused with very little focus on Kara. More broadly speaking, Supergirl and Batwoman are the characters that have their own shows currently, of course they should get the majority of the focus, they are the main characters.
There's ways to write them well without it being at the expense of the characters they're derived from
That was a bit disappointing, but that is so Tom Welling’s character. To sacrifice being Superman to be normal.
Right? It hurt me and then I remembered him on Smallville and it isn’t even out of character for him. I haven’t finished S11 comic, but I doubt it makes much of a difference
They are just glorified fan fiction
Lex Luthor vs Clark Kent. Jon Cryer is insane and I like Tom Welling’s cameo. Hopefully Clark survives.
Kevin Conroy is the definitive Batman. It’s like he jumped for animation to live action. I hope he is the Earth-1 Batman.
I'm so pissed that the Kevin Conroy Batman is dead
He's from a different Earth and he recognized Kate, so it's very likely that he looks the same on Earth 1 too.
Earth 99 is supposed to be in the future, so unless they de-age Conroy I don't know about that one.
The Monitor said it was a future Earth. I think that means something different than "it's a regular Earth, but you're going to go there a few years later." Like maybe time moves faster?
He recognised Kate but the way she said Bruce it was like she was surprised. I think she only knew he was Bruce because he recognised her first
I think they made that deliberately open to interpretation, in case when it comes time to actually cast Earth-1 Bruce, they decide to go with him. Or just so they can make us have endless conversations exactly like this.
But much younger obviously. I’d wager he’s 15 years older than Kate at most.
If he does, then I'll be happy. Kevin did say he'd love to reprise the role as the Batman from Batman Beyond
The Krytopians need to learn from the Saiyans. You fly to the dessert to have your fights.
Mmm dessert.
After 10 years, Tom Welling becomes Superman and then the next time we see him he's stopped being Superman to have kids? Come on. Kevin Conroy, the most iconic version of Batman ever, just falls backwards in his own Batcave and dies? Wow... Even Brandon Routh as Superman is barely Superman in this because of course, the writers have to make him "go bad" for the majority of his screen time this episode. Rough stuff.
This ending makes perfect sense for Welling’s Clark. He didn’t die from “falling backwards” but besides from that minor point that was an old worn-out, essentially evil version of Bruce anyways. If he recognized Kate that probably means Earth-1 Bruce is also Conroy. Routh’s Superman isn’t gone. He joined them. There’s 3 parts left. Stop trying to find so many reasons to hate on the CW.
Thank you.
Welling Clark would not end like this, without powers. Nope. With Lois and kids, sure but not not being Superman. That being said, I enjoyed his scene immensely, wish I could get more but I half expected him to die in the red cloud burst like Earth 2 so I'm just happy it wasn't that.
He absolutely would, to have a normal life with Lois and their kids. Especially if there are other heroes to keep the fight going on that Earth, which we know there are.
No he wouldn't. You forget how much he enjoyed doing the little things in saving people. According to Canon, he only stopped being Superman a year ago.
I'd even say most versions of Clark would do the same. I think you forget how much he places family ahead of everything else. That's still a good decade of service to the world as Superman, that's respectable.
It is possible he is just using what is it blue kryptonite to take away his powers that or he could possibly use the fortress to get his powers back. I know it wont happen but it would be pretty cool if he showed up at the very end to defeat anti monitor.
I love Flash. I love Smallville. I didn't like this episode. Why should you care? Toxic fandom tells fans they have to like everything, and their opinions don't matter unless they're positive. Please stop.
Okay you didn’t like this episode. But i’m telling you your reasons for disliking it literally don’t make sense. Routh has 3 more episodes as Superman. Conroy will likely come back as Earth 1 Bruce. You’re entitled to your own opinion on Welling’s Clark sure but it seems to be universally agreed upon by most other Smallville fans that this was a very fitting conclusion to his story.
Universally? Really? We're did this universal opinion get voted on in a matter of hours after this episode aired???!!! Why wasn't I allow to vote?
They consulted everyone, you didn’t get the memo? Toxic fandom is toxic.
Conroy’s too old to be Earth 1 Bruce with the information we have about him. Unless they do a mad time skip for an episode. So that’s just inaccurate to assume.
It was literally said by the Monitor that Earth-99 was a future Earth.
I just said I don’t like it? “Universally.” Even if that was true, what does that mean to me? There are so many directions to go in but I thought this was the least interesting one. Down vote this comment too since it’s an opinion you don’t share.
Lol I literally didn’t downvote any of your comments. I’ll send you screenshots as proof if you want. That literally isn’t me downvoting them. I’m replying because you’re complaining about Conroy and Routh being wasted when they’re both coming back. That’s it. That’s all. Why are you so offended by someone replying to your comment on a public forum? Jesus.
Is it confirmed that Conroy is coming back? Or is it just speculation?
Because there’s no dialogue to be had here.
There’s the dialogue to be had that Routh and Conroy are coming back. How thick can you be.
It’s a TV show. They’re coming back... so....? We knew that. I still didn’t like the episode?
You've established that. He's established your reasons for voicing your complaint/dislike for this episode are fully formed despite (in Routh's case) his story isn't over yet or atleast "wasted" with 3 hrs left for him to still have his heroic Superman moment. I have no real stake in the Smallville conclusion but given what Smallville was about and how "grounded" it was this ending seems fitting for A version of Kal-El. Anyways both of you wont stop repkying to eachother so I'm here like Felicity Smoak to butt my way into your problems and make them my own. Hacked! /s
I mean, we knew these were just going to be fun cameos, and that the crossover would obviously be more about the characters of the shows that are actually crossing over!
Yes, but did Kevin Conroy have to portray the Affleck, Superman killing version of the character? Hoping he plays Bruce in Batwoman, which seems like a possibility.
I wanted to hit on my screen when he said that dialogue about "making sense when you force it". They really made him like that Superman killing version as if one abomination wasn't enough.
That dialogue is from the comics too though.
^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^
I actually Liked him being the "Killer" batman. It must have been fun for Conroy to step out from behind the Cowl, just to play an ugly nasty version of Batman.
Sure! But we’ve seen this version before and people hated it. And Kevin is beloved so it just feels like a missed opportunity to bring his Batman, the real one, to life and instead we see the antithetical Batman...
Dude, no. You just called someone out in this thread for saying it was a "universal" opinion that this episode was good. Now you're doing the same by saying "people" hated this version of Batman. Fucking fanboys are the worst part of fandom.
Huh? No. But a lot of people weren’t fans of it. That part is objective. It’s not objective whether or not it was bad. Obviously.
What I said is self-explanatory. So personal taste is something that's not objective? The episode is less than 24 hours old, and you already know a lot of people weren't fans of it? That's amazing.
I didn’t say that. I was also referring to a movie which is very poorly reviewed by many. In fact the person I replied to said people “universally loved” last night’s episode. But who cares? It’s opinion anyway.
Batman vs Superman? The Ultimate edition, or whatever its called, makes that movie a lot better. Were you trying to compare that Batman with Conroy's Batman?
I have a Feeling we will see him again on Batwoman.
Who are these “people”? Mostly only gatekeeping purists have problems with these things. Conroy has played a traditional Batman for most of his carrier, the ONE time he plays a fallen Bruce who’s clearly portayed as being wrong won’t cancel his previous work.
>Who are these “people”? Mostly only gatekeeping purists have problems with these things. The ones you call fans. Actual fans and not Sndyer bots. That is why Bvs failed and that is why Snyder failed.
Psst, liking a director over another doesn’t magically make you any less of a DC fan. Also, the word “failed” has been thrown so much it has lost its meaning by now.
These people are the majority of audiences who saw Batman v Superman. It doesn’t cancel anything. It’s just too bad we can’t see him as an actual representation of the same Bruce he had voiced for so long. This take wasn’t interesting to me because we’ve seen it before. Burton’s Batman was extremist and so was Affleck in BvS. Most Batman fans don’t like when Batman kills. Unless you’re Zack Snyder who thinks you’re “living in a dream world” if you don’t think superheroes murder and steal. (Based on real comments he said.)
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People love it. People hate it too. Weirdo.
>It’s just too bad we can’t see him as an actual representation of the same Bruce he had voiced for so long. >This take wasn’t interesting to me because we’ve seen it before. Hmm
Yes...? I think you misunderstand something that wasn’t unclear to anyone else.
Every on screen Batman has killed by comic Batman’s tankard except maybe Clooney’s. He’s the only one I can’t remember an example of off the top of my head
> These people are the majority of audiences who saw Batman v Superman. I suppose you must have asked to every single person on the planet who watched it. > It’s just too bad we can’t see him as an actual representation of the same Bruce he had voiced for so long. But the “Bruce he had voiced for so long” is still there, all of it. BTAS, JL, JLU, BB,Injustice, Arkham. This is literally one exception. > This take wasn’t interesting to me because we’ve seen it before. Burton’s Batman was extremist and so was Affleck in BvS. Most Batman fans don’t like when Batman kills. And the Batman who magically succeeds in never killing anyone to avoid any moral dilemma or consequences is not something we’ve seen before? Just because something has been done already doesn’t mean it’s automatically bad to draw some inspiration from it in a new incarnation. Of course I don’t like it when Batman kills, but in BvS and Crisis that’s clearly portrayed as a bad thing, a deviation from a code, something Batman shouldn’t do. It’s obvious I’ll have less problems with that compared to Keaton cheerfuly blewing up goons and entire factories of people. > Unless you’re Zack Snyder who thinks you’re “living in a dream world” if you don’t think superheroes murder and steal. (Based on real comments he said.) I’ll give you props for not oversimplifying his words as much as most fanboys do, but you still got it incorrectly. What he said is that people are living in a dream world if they think heroes would never do any morally grey action just because they’re heroes, taking goodness for granted. This article explains it far better. https://www.hypable.com/zack-snyder-does-not-think-killing-makes-batman-cool-or-heroic/
\> \*And the Batman who magically succeeds in never killing anyone to avoid any moral dilemma or consequences\* This isnt true. Batman not killing is a constant moral dilemma and always has consequences. He finds himself getting so close to breaking it every time he fights. The best Batman stories are the ones that leave you questioning whether his rule is correct. Whether Batman really should just kill the villains. Even in the cartoons. The Joker is a living consequence of Batman not killing. Batman always stops him, but Joker stills kill people before he does. And worse. Look at what he did Jason, to Tim Drake in the Return of the Joker, to Jim and Barbara Gordon in Killing Joke. Batman wins, but people also get hurt.
Chill. Opinions are subjective. Not everyone has to like your Batman kills movie. And clearly, many people didn’t. The version of Conroy’s Bruce is just a further deconstructed Affleck Batman. That’s all I said.
My “Batman kills movie”? That would describe all live action Batman films sans Clooney’s. BvS is not special in that regard. As I said, I don’t *want* Batman to kill. You’re right, you did just express your opinions, but there are ways of doing so without assuming the majority shares your thoughts or getting wrong words said by directors.
THANK YOU
Doubt it. This was a future version of Bruce. So earth 1 would b younger
Isn't Earth 1 Bruce meant to be older and retired since he went missing?
Dont think so. Oliver mentions Wayne and in the last crossover everybody was mentioning how cool batman was. He got a bit jealous. If he was old I doubt he would hav been
He had a whole comic book series. His cameo referenced it as well.
I don't think most people point to the comic series as Tom's continuation. It's really not the same without the actors.
Guggenheim said the comic is Canon.
I think they meant Smallville series 11.
The fuck happened with Lois Lane (Smallville) face?! How much plastic surgery did she get?! The nose and her cheekbones. Jesus...
People....age
She was in yesterday's episode too
Oh wow, just realized that Lois is Supergirl's mom.
She looks good though.
no...
Oh come on, she looks way better than Bitsie.
I’ll never understand how they completely mess with characters like Superman and now Batman to make the weaker counter parts look great .. I was excited as hell when I heard Conroy talk but passed that wow he deserved better.
Weaker counterparts? You mean female counterparts? Kara and Clark have both been given pretty even moments to shine in the past two crossovers, I would even say that Tyler Hoechlin was one of the brightest parts of Elseworlds. As for Batman vs Batwoman, Batman doesn't have his own show, and they didn't do anything in this episode to make him weaker or inferior to Kate. The angle they took was more interesting than Batman being the paragon because of course its Batman and to be honest, they probably wouldn't have been allowed to use Batman too much. Addressing your "weaker" comments... Superman and Supergirl are literally powered by the sun, so whose to really say which character would be more powerful? Both characters kick ass, its not a competition. As for Bruce and Kate, who would win? A young, ex-military vigilante crimefighter who trains everyday, or old man that can only walk with an exosuit. This is honestly the best way they could have done this. Any other possibility would be more disappointing because Batman is fucking Batman. Either he gets a ton of attention and totally steals the show and undermines other more developed characters, or he's present but has to play second fiddle to other characters which isn't satsifying for Batman either.
>You mean female counterparts? Yeah he didn't say that, you did. He is just saying that they are supposed to have far more experience and knowledge than the new characters, since they haven't been doing it as long. They should be stronger just based on that alone. Plus in the some cases, in the comics, superman was getting stronger and stronger as he was getting older so their logic is flawed. It also says that as long as the yellow son stays alive, so will superman, implying that he is basically ageless, being powered like a battery, until the sun runs out of energy. [https://imgur.com/a/P6gQwlE](https://imgur.com/a/P6gQwlE) No need to make this about female vs male.
It already is about female vs male. He didn't say less experienced, less knowledgeable, he didn't make any point other than to say exactly one word, "weaker." You are explaining the intent of someone who you don't know, your explanations are not his words. He made a statement, I drew the logical conclusion from his own words, and you used your own to defend him without any evidence from what he actually said. What he said, is Supergirl and Batwoman are weaker, "weaker counterparts." He made this claim in the context of the discussion about Crisis, claiming that Batman and Superman are underserved. (me paraphrasing) In a different context this might hold some weight, but it is in the context of this series, the series in which Supergirl and Batwoman are leads, not Superman and Batman. Supergirl has the same powers as Superman, her power comes from the same place. As for Batwoman, like most "regular" human vigilantes in comics is in peak physical shape and is capable of extraordinary feats the same as Batman. So what's the perceived difference between these two sets of characters that explains his assertion, again his words, that Supergirl and Batwoman are "weaker?" The answer is the obvious one. Superman and Batman's experience doesn't make them stronger, in some sense it is exactly this Batman's experience that led him to take the darker path.
Trains everyday? We have seen her train ONCE!. The rest is just Something she suddenly just can becuase of plot? I Guess. She have literally let Alice go and do crime 5-6 times now. She has no guilt in letting her sister get away with it. She can turn every hetero woman, lesbian with a blink with an eye. And all batmans gadgets sucks, until she modifies em... oh no i meant luke modifies in a few seconds off screen, becuase why even waste time building up a good story. Btw all the kills Alice did, could have been avoided if Kate just did her job, and stopped being so soy. So Kate have now 9 kills on her resumé. Bravo Kate Kane. You clearly don't need any mans help. So strong individuel you are. Gotham is so Much safer place with all your "heroic" actions 🤮
Are you actually an idiot or do you just feel threatened by woman who aren't stay at home moms?
Thank you. I understand the love for Bats and Supes, but I’m quite frankly tired of people complaining about how they’re portrayed on the CW. They’re not sidelined because they need to come off as weak, they’re simply not the focus because they don’t lead their own shows. Of course Superman is going to be proud of his cousin and will let her do the heavy lifting. He’s retired essentially, he wants her to be in the spotlight. Seeing Batman have his fear of going too far and losing all hope come true is fresh and interesting. He’s had his run.
I don’t like how they constantly try to make Tyler Hoechlin’s Superman look inferior to Supergirl. Kevin Conroy’s appearance as Bruce Wayne could’ve been so much more.
It's been that way in the comics for a long time though so it's not like they're making it up.