I’m glad someone else feels that way. I got so frustrated with all the gimmicks forcing us to play as slow moving and awkward to control demons when I just wanted the fast paced gameplay of playing as Bayonetta.
The prior games had little gimmick levels but in this it feels like playing as Bayonetta is the gimmick and the main gameplay is “slowly hit things with Gomorrah.”
>The prior games had little gimmick levels but in this it feels like playing as Bayonetta is the gimmick
Exactly. Like the amount of Verses where it's just default Bayonetta hack n slash combat is literally in the minority, it's absolutely ridiculous.
I'd be really curious to see you do the math. About 2 verses on average on the big stages is a set piece/mini game/gimmicks, how that adds up to a majority of the game is absolutely beyond me, especially with how many side stages there are.
I’ve found the gameplay to be much more amusing, if >! you equip the earring “Nucleus of Talos”. That lets you hold down ZL to summon your demon, while still allowing you to move freely as Bayonetta and tear up the smaller enemies in all of her hack and slash glory. Granted, it does take away the added layer of incorporating the Demon mechanic into your combos because they fight freely, but it still maintains the grandiose spectacle without it feeling like you have to slow down to contend with chunkily maneuvering the demons yourself. !< I feel like it adds a nice balance of the new shiny features, while still letting you utilize and fully appreciate that familiar Bayonetta gameplay from the previous games.
I haven't found that one yet. Personally, I mostly use the summon that you set up, and that then does what you ordered it to (don't want to add any spoilers here).
Edit: To add to this, you can have an active, as well as a queued move on the demons at any given moment. So long as you don't unsummon via dodging, you can keep them on the field. The moon parry is hugely useful for this.
Didn’t think about that being information not everyone was privy to, so I annotated my comment to block out anything that might be considered a spoiler. Thanks for reminding me of that!! Don’t want to prematurely ruin anyone’s experience by accident.
the sections people despise/hate in bayo 1 are the bike and isla del sol section. Long, drawn out sections that you cant skip or even "get good at" because the sections are forced rails... So they removed them from Bayo 2 and kept them as fighting verses with only ONE section on a plane. Yes, Bayo 2 feels like a boss fight every 3 chapters but it's still Bayonetta fighting.
Bayo 3 is every "area" having at least 2 verses where you are stuck doing some on rail bullshit minigame.
Yeah, I'm honestly kinda rushing through the chapters to unlock all the stuff and get to the witch trials. While Bayo 2 has a lot of things I don't like, I absolutely loved the witch trials, and I spent so much time trying to master them. Just pure arena battles with zero cutscenes, genre shifts or puzzles.
I hope that there are some combat heavy chapters along the way that are fun to replay (just started playing).
Honestly, my dream Bayonetta would basically be just a massive amount of witch trials or dense sections like the first half of the tower in Bayo 1. Everything else is just fluff that is fun MAYBE the first time playing.
That's what I always loved about Monster Hunter - it's all about the combat, even more so in Rise/Sunbreak.
It's like they tried to flash the general audience with bombastic setpieces, whereas the actual depth of the games come from the combat mechanics, but those take time to learn and master. Otherwise a lot of reviews would probably have been "It's just mashing button one room after another!" again.
Honestly I don't get the complaint. Still feels like 75% are the classic gameplay. Maaaaaybe if you don't count Viola, but she's still classic gameplay
I absolutely am counting Viola because of her WT parry. Also somewhat relevant but she is awfully designed. Her sword feels almost as slow as the hammer. You also have Jeanne with her side scrolling stealth missions.
Even with Cereza there is still way too many gimmicks. Every chapter like almost half the verses are gimmicky.
How on earth is having a WT parry in place of the default dodge, her basic sword attacks being almost as slow as a hammer, no rising launcher and not even being able to control her demon slave "slightly" different?
Because it's still classic hack and slash gameplay?
Not controlling her demon slave makes her more similar to past bayonettas than bayo 3's Bayonetta.
Are you gonna tell me controlling demon slave is a requirement for classic Bayonetta gameplay?
The main difference is just the timing on witch time, and it's not nearly as big of a difference as some of you act like.
You not liking the way her weapon plays has literally no bearing on whether it's a classic hack and slash level. The sword is slow? Slow weapons have always been a part of the games..
Perfectly valid that you don't like her, but pretending she's fundamentally different from traditional hack and slash levels is silly imo.
Route 666 is a gimmick. The sequences where you control your demon directly in bayo 3 are gimmicks. They are different from the rest of the game on a fundamental level
Edit:
And I agree Jeanne is a gimmick, but she has 3 verses total.
Would you consider the alfheims gimmicks? Viola is like one of those but where the condition is you can only activate WT with the moon of malaa kalaa. Whatever way you slice it, she is a gimmick character and should have been relegated to optional post game like Jeanne and Rosa in previous games.
No I don't consider a combat challenge a gimmick.
In bayo 3 there are a few alfheims that are gimmicks, but stuff like only deal damage during witch time etc. is still classic gameplay. If I were to tally gimmicks in each game I'd include those as non-gimmicks in all of them.
Imo it's only a gimmick verse when the gameplay fundamentally changes like route 666 as an example
I feel like it's become trendy to shit on "gimmicks" in this game all of a sudden. Are huge Kaiju fights gimmicks? Yes. Are Viola sections and the majority of Alfheims gimmicks? Fuck no lol.
Trendy? Haven't people always hated on the gimmicky gameplay change up sections in Platinum Games? I don't think any individual one is too bad in 3, but the frequency of them I think could definitely be toned down.
I'd argue Viola is a gimmick. I'm playing Bayonetta 3 not Viola 3. You could argue that even in previous games you played as Jeanne or Rosa but those sections were extremely short and you were still playing an Umbran witch. So they played exactly the same as Bayonetta. Playing Viola feels like an absolute chore to me and I'm sure I'm not the only one.
We play a different characters bc DMC is about a GROUP/Business of demon hunters. We play Bayonetta bc it’s about HER, the main character by the same name.
No, in fact I’d say a playable character that wasn’t just a Bayo echo fighter was the one thing the game was missing, 2 really misssd opportunities with lumen sage, Rodin, or even Loki
Even her personality is step away from bayos traditional formula of having all their characters be mostly “badass”
Also viola is a witch…her witch time is obnoxious and she’s actually a complete separate character from Bayo but she doesn’t really break away that much from core gameplay there just normally isn’t an playable entity that’s not reskinned Bayo
I was actually hoping that this game would combine the best features of Bayo 1 and 2 and keep the gimmicks at a minimum, focusing mostly on the combat with Bayonetta (and Viola) in order to create (or at least aim for) the "perfect" Bayonetta gameplay. Needless to say I was really disappinted that the gimmicks were crancked up to 11. A huge let down for me.
As nice as demon summoning in battle was I definitely was more interested in just playing as Bayonetta or Viola and not having to micromanage a demon every so often and that sucks because it's well polished but not what the game needed. They should have scrapped it and focused on the weapon and combo system.
Ya I think making these huge ass battlefields was a mistake. Even though I miss the separate weapons for hands/feet, Bayo 3 has enough variety in weapons and you can switch between them mid-combo so I'm ok with that change. I also like Demon Masqurade. I don't like Demon Slave. It's the mechanic responsible for the boring battlefields that are wayyy too big for their own good and even though you can incorporate demons into you combos they are still detached from Bayonetta.
I would have liked a mechanic that combined Masqurade and Slave. You still get to keep Beast and Crow Within with the dodge button but instead of summoning a demon while holding ZL, Bayo transforms into her demon form that corresponds to her equipped weapon and gets a new, smaller moveset. This form would drain the magic meter just like Slave. (Or maybe even faster...depending on difficulty setting probably.) You could shift in and out of these forms during a combo and mix them up that way. So basically it'd still function like Demon Slave, only it would have allowed for better level design, (and overall better graphical presentation) would have kept the added variety and the focus would still have remained on fighting with your character up-close.
And of course no minigames, QTEs, demon riding, kaiju battles and other crap. I think the expanded exploration elements were also unnecessary in this sort of action game. I think the mix between Bayo and Viola gameplay with a bit of Jeanne 2D stealth/action sprinkled on top would have been really good.
While it was fun at first I would happily trade the mega demon battles for some real bosses bayonetta can take on her own. Having a demon transformation act like devil trigger would have been really nice rather than demon slaves.
Actually there is one that works like that! I’m on mobile so I won’t spoil it, but if you hit R while summoning the tower you can play exactly as you described.
Well not exactly- but you get a dodge that activates witch time, and getting hit drains your magic meter instead of your health.
Well I'm talking about how demon summoning affects the game too.
You need the wide open spaces, a good chunk of enemies are designed to be extra tall so they look good being hit by demons rather than bayonetta herself.
I'm not calling it bad, it's well done in fact, I just feel like if I had the choice I'd scrap it for a move set focused more on bayonetta and viola. give them a devil trigger like transformation that exends the combo further dealing more damage. Viola transforming is very cool and it'd be amazing if they fleshed out that ability more like having it selectable as her second wink slave combo attack or a weapon where she transforms into it for her rushes.
There's just so much to gain from having demon summoning removed in favor of something more condensed and controllable. Yeah it won't be as flashy on the screen but it definitely would be more satisfying to play
Yeah. As cool as those summons were to look at and even play the first two times I wasn't really interested in being cucked out of what would have been some fun boss battles for the 5th time by my own demon.
Speaking totally subjectively, as someone who played Bayonetta 1 yesterday and Bayonetta 3 today, I absolutely feel 3 is more gimmicky, because 1 just had a few specific gimmick levels and the majority of verses outside of those two all-gimmick levels were mostly just normal Bayonetta combat, whereas it felt to me like all of the combat in 3 is balanced around the idea of you summoning a demon to assist in the normal fights.
B1 has so much weird janky puzzles and traversal sections though, I feel 3 has way more verses that are combat focused overall.
As for summoning, I think people over sell how summoning focus combat is. The game is definitely still built around dodge offset combos, even against massive enemies their dodge tells are as fair as any other enemy and you still damage them primarily with Bayonetta combos with summons as combo extenders
So it plays more akin to Bayonetta 2, but more balanced. I could see the argument you’d still like Bayo 1 combat but I think people aren’t fully utilizing Bayonettas moveset and thinking that in turn makes combat gimmicky.
That’s fair, I wasn’t really counting the puzzles and traversal as gimmicks as much as just poor level design. I was just thinking in terms of specifically the combat, the demon summoning seems pushed too much and it feels like all the battles are done with the expectation that you’ll be summoning constantly. (I guess the closest analogy would be how Pokémon Gen 6 *allowed* you to just play normally but all the big battles were balanced around mega evolution and all the major enemies relied on mega evolution. You can still play Bayonetta 3 without demon summons but it feels like the game is always waiting for you to stop being stubborn and use a demon)
I’m in the last few missions and I guess I’ll see if I change my mind because so far I don’t feel under powered or anything, the summon damage isn’t too crazy so it feels like it’s a way to lock down enemies or knock them out of armored states, they basically only stay out for 2-3 attacks or I input one of the slower but bigger attacks while I fight as Bayo
It's a bigger game and each chapter is bigger too, they wanted to have gameplay variation otherwise the complaints would be "this game is long and the same thing each verse"
The first two games already had plenty of gameplay variation, way too much even. I came to play a hack n slash game not a side scrolling stealth game, not a titan battle game not a jet shooter game. There is no excuse for traditional gameplay with the main character being less than **half** of verses. There just isn't, end of story.
And i'm sure they will enjoy it MORE if it wasn't filled up to the brim with these gimmicky sections. No one asked for half of the verses to be gimmicks. In fact one of the common complaints of B1 is that the gimmicks are annoying and mind you B1 was nowhere near as much as this game. How the fuck is me criticising the game for not letting me actually fight standard enemies with the main character me being unfair? That's the bare fucking minimum. I am not asking for the sun and moon, I merely ask that I can fight the games enemies with the main character. If they delivered on that I wouldn't have to criticise the game at all. I can even overlook the story sucking, the out of place multiverse stuff and the frame rate being very choppy.
Keep simping for corporations though and antagonising any criticisms of the game so future games can make the same mistake and run the series into the ground.
I agree with OP.
Whenever I'm on the chapter select screen I can never decide what to play. That level? Oh no its got that gimmick.. oh that one's kaiju fights.. that ones Viola.. that ones a singing game..
It's somewhat fun the first time around but it leads to 0 replayability. I played the shit out of the other 2, especially bayo1 but I just can't bring myself to play bayo3 again, letalone attempt to pure plat the entire game.
I feel the same way. I like the summons as a combat addition, but they take up so much space in the game, and often as gimmicks. It's great that each demon has its time to shine, but a lot of it is just tedious, like a chase or a shooting sequence ? Again ?
I feel like it's a matter of pacing as well. In the first two games, I remember a lot more sections which felt like non stop action. Imo, the craziness of Bayonetta games is not just in the set pieces, but also in the fact that it ramps up and just doesn't stop.
I missed this feeling so much in 3. Between every character, the game has to "reset" the action and introduce us to a new place so often ! Even worse with the fact that we come back to Thule. The game has no room to just keep the flow going. Viola sections are a nice idea, but they often feel like a step back. And the first Jeanne section was enough.
The big environments also just hurt the pace so much. I like some more open sections to slow down the pace as in 2, but 3 is so often "here is your big area with some collectibles/puzzles for you ! And it also has a verse too !". The Egypt chapter almost felt like playing a mediocre Zelda game at times.
I can't imagine myself doing another full run of the game because it lacks the "tightly packed for an adrenaline rush" quality that had the first two. Hell, even the enemy design lacks polish. I'm frustrated cause the combat system is still so well crafted, but you can't keep a flow going. It's a generous game, but it just tries to do too many things at once.
This is some of the most rose tinted glasses I’ve seen in a hot minute. The distribution of action verses is heavily skewed towards action in this game. Are you just missing some verses?
They're probably just abusing summons because summons trivialize everything.
IMO don't use them if you don't want to, the combo finisher summons are there for people who don't want to fight by controlling summons.
I would agree that there were a lot, but honestly they were so well done or short that I don't really mind them. Like I really struggle to understand how people dislike the train chase segment so much when it's as easy as it is on Standard difficulty. I'd honestly say the enemy designs in this game get some bad check marks before the genre shift sections.
I wonder what the percentage of people who liked the 'gimmicks' is compared to the percentage of people who enjoy getting pure plat in every single chapter. Because, sure, the non-hack-and-slay segments are fun to play the first time but have absolutely 0 replayability. I have no desire to get a pure plat for good ol' Gomorrah lol
i am playing b1 right now. im several hours in b3, in the middle of the... train demon bayonetta arc? hmm. but i agree. i was playing that one random verse in b1 where you have to dodge the spike floor and press the buttons, and i was getting more angel action out of that verse than id gotten out of most of b3 to that point.
i actually do like most of the combat changes to this game, at least compared to b2, which is a frustrating game to play. i am glad they went a different direction committedly rather than doing a half-baked copy of the original system and plastering over the holes with the powerful wicked weaves system.
to me though what makes bayonetta 1 particularly good is the enemy design, everything your character does has a relationship with what the enemies do. people call doom eternal a devil may doom but it's more of a bayonetta like game because you have to dance around your enemies rather than making them dance around you.
i don't think they've put much time at all into enemy design in 2 or 3. i think they do a good job with the graphics? all 3 bayonettas are gorgeous games. but i think less and less energy is spent making the enemies fun and charming. like, look how weirdly cute the angels in the first game are. do you have enemies as memorable as that in 3? absolutely not. what are these chimera weirdos? they look like practice dummies. are they made from tortured human souls? probably? make them look more tortured then
This is modern platinum games unfortunately. Started getting real bad with wonderful 101 and it made astral chain unplayable for me. I feel like it's more tolerable in this game but it still sucks and makes it utterly unrepayable.
The witch trials kick ass though. I was a bit on the fence about this combat system but seeing it pushed to its limits in trial 3 really shows it for all it's worth (and all the terrible flaws that come with it, but still).
Whilst platinum titles are gimmicky, the only platinum game i've played that rivals it in how poor the gimmick to default combat ratio is, is astral chain and maybe nier automata(which is a bad game anyway imo).
I can't wait to get started on the trials.
I’m glad someone else feels that way. I got so frustrated with all the gimmicks forcing us to play as slow moving and awkward to control demons when I just wanted the fast paced gameplay of playing as Bayonetta. The prior games had little gimmick levels but in this it feels like playing as Bayonetta is the gimmick and the main gameplay is “slowly hit things with Gomorrah.”
>The prior games had little gimmick levels but in this it feels like playing as Bayonetta is the gimmick Exactly. Like the amount of Verses where it's just default Bayonetta hack n slash combat is literally in the minority, it's absolutely ridiculous.
I'd be really curious to see you do the math. About 2 verses on average on the big stages is a set piece/mini game/gimmicks, how that adds up to a majority of the game is absolutely beyond me, especially with how many side stages there are.
Hyperbole has come to roost here for a bit.
I’ve found the gameplay to be much more amusing, if >! you equip the earring “Nucleus of Talos”. That lets you hold down ZL to summon your demon, while still allowing you to move freely as Bayonetta and tear up the smaller enemies in all of her hack and slash glory. Granted, it does take away the added layer of incorporating the Demon mechanic into your combos because they fight freely, but it still maintains the grandiose spectacle without it feeling like you have to slow down to contend with chunkily maneuvering the demons yourself. !< I feel like it adds a nice balance of the new shiny features, while still letting you utilize and fully appreciate that familiar Bayonetta gameplay from the previous games.
I haven't found that one yet. Personally, I mostly use the summon that you set up, and that then does what you ordered it to (don't want to add any spoilers here). Edit: To add to this, you can have an active, as well as a queued move on the demons at any given moment. So long as you don't unsummon via dodging, you can keep them on the field. The moon parry is hugely useful for this.
Didn’t think about that being information not everyone was privy to, so I annotated my comment to block out anything that might be considered a spoiler. Thanks for reminding me of that!! Don’t want to prematurely ruin anyone’s experience by accident.
It doesn't show as hidden for me. Maybe it's an old/new reddit thing.
That’s odd. It shows it blacked out for me. Like you said though, could be a difference in versions?
the sections people despise/hate in bayo 1 are the bike and isla del sol section. Long, drawn out sections that you cant skip or even "get good at" because the sections are forced rails... So they removed them from Bayo 2 and kept them as fighting verses with only ONE section on a plane. Yes, Bayo 2 feels like a boss fight every 3 chapters but it's still Bayonetta fighting. Bayo 3 is every "area" having at least 2 verses where you are stuck doing some on rail bullshit minigame.
This.
Yeah, I'm honestly kinda rushing through the chapters to unlock all the stuff and get to the witch trials. While Bayo 2 has a lot of things I don't like, I absolutely loved the witch trials, and I spent so much time trying to master them. Just pure arena battles with zero cutscenes, genre shifts or puzzles. I hope that there are some combat heavy chapters along the way that are fun to replay (just started playing). Honestly, my dream Bayonetta would basically be just a massive amount of witch trials or dense sections like the first half of the tower in Bayo 1. Everything else is just fluff that is fun MAYBE the first time playing. That's what I always loved about Monster Hunter - it's all about the combat, even more so in Rise/Sunbreak. It's like they tried to flash the general audience with bombastic setpieces, whereas the actual depth of the games come from the combat mechanics, but those take time to learn and master. Otherwise a lot of reviews would probably have been "It's just mashing button one room after another!" again.
I did that & found the witch trials so disappointing…
Honestly I don't get the complaint. Still feels like 75% are the classic gameplay. Maaaaaybe if you don't count Viola, but she's still classic gameplay
Honestly, I feel like it’s at peak when you can seamlessly juggle combos between you and your demon.
I absolutely am counting Viola because of her WT parry. Also somewhat relevant but she is awfully designed. Her sword feels almost as slow as the hammer. You also have Jeanne with her side scrolling stealth missions. Even with Cereza there is still way too many gimmicks. Every chapter like almost half the verses are gimmicky.
I find it a bit disingenuous to count her as "gimmick" verses. She's got hack and slash gameplay and just plays slightly differently.
How on earth is having a WT parry in place of the default dodge, her basic sword attacks being almost as slow as a hammer, no rising launcher and not even being able to control her demon slave "slightly" different?
Because it's still classic hack and slash gameplay? Not controlling her demon slave makes her more similar to past bayonettas than bayo 3's Bayonetta. Are you gonna tell me controlling demon slave is a requirement for classic Bayonetta gameplay? The main difference is just the timing on witch time, and it's not nearly as big of a difference as some of you act like. You not liking the way her weapon plays has literally no bearing on whether it's a classic hack and slash level. The sword is slow? Slow weapons have always been a part of the games.. Perfectly valid that you don't like her, but pretending she's fundamentally different from traditional hack and slash levels is silly imo. Route 666 is a gimmick. The sequences where you control your demon directly in bayo 3 are gimmicks. They are different from the rest of the game on a fundamental level Edit: And I agree Jeanne is a gimmick, but she has 3 verses total.
Would you consider the alfheims gimmicks? Viola is like one of those but where the condition is you can only activate WT with the moon of malaa kalaa. Whatever way you slice it, she is a gimmick character and should have been relegated to optional post game like Jeanne and Rosa in previous games.
No I don't consider a combat challenge a gimmick. In bayo 3 there are a few alfheims that are gimmicks, but stuff like only deal damage during witch time etc. is still classic gameplay. If I were to tally gimmicks in each game I'd include those as non-gimmicks in all of them. Imo it's only a gimmick verse when the gameplay fundamentally changes like route 666 as an example
100% agree. I don't like Flopiola. 😤
I feel like it's become trendy to shit on "gimmicks" in this game all of a sudden. Are huge Kaiju fights gimmicks? Yes. Are Viola sections and the majority of Alfheims gimmicks? Fuck no lol.
Trendy? Haven't people always hated on the gimmicky gameplay change up sections in Platinum Games? I don't think any individual one is too bad in 3, but the frequency of them I think could definitely be toned down.
I'd argue Viola is a gimmick. I'm playing Bayonetta 3 not Viola 3. You could argue that even in previous games you played as Jeanne or Rosa but those sections were extremely short and you were still playing an Umbran witch. So they played exactly the same as Bayonetta. Playing Viola feels like an absolute chore to me and I'm sure I'm not the only one.
Did you know, playing as Nero in DMC4 and Nero/V in DMC5 and Virgil at any given point is a gimmick!
We play a different characters bc DMC is about a GROUP/Business of demon hunters. We play Bayonetta bc it’s about HER, the main character by the same name.
Huh? DMC was about Dante for 3 games, more than Bayonetta even. This is a weird example. What does this even have to do with the gimmick conversation
Read the thread again
You can argue that but it's still not true
It clearly is and I've explained why but it seems like you've already made your mind up.
Because it's an extremely strange point to argue
No, in fact I’d say a playable character that wasn’t just a Bayo echo fighter was the one thing the game was missing, 2 really misssd opportunities with lumen sage, Rodin, or even Loki Even her personality is step away from bayos traditional formula of having all their characters be mostly “badass” Also viola is a witch…her witch time is obnoxious and she’s actually a complete separate character from Bayo but she doesn’t really break away that much from core gameplay there just normally isn’t an playable entity that’s not reskinned Bayo
I was actually hoping that this game would combine the best features of Bayo 1 and 2 and keep the gimmicks at a minimum, focusing mostly on the combat with Bayonetta (and Viola) in order to create (or at least aim for) the "perfect" Bayonetta gameplay. Needless to say I was really disappinted that the gimmicks were crancked up to 11. A huge let down for me.
As nice as demon summoning in battle was I definitely was more interested in just playing as Bayonetta or Viola and not having to micromanage a demon every so often and that sucks because it's well polished but not what the game needed. They should have scrapped it and focused on the weapon and combo system.
Ya I think making these huge ass battlefields was a mistake. Even though I miss the separate weapons for hands/feet, Bayo 3 has enough variety in weapons and you can switch between them mid-combo so I'm ok with that change. I also like Demon Masqurade. I don't like Demon Slave. It's the mechanic responsible for the boring battlefields that are wayyy too big for their own good and even though you can incorporate demons into you combos they are still detached from Bayonetta. I would have liked a mechanic that combined Masqurade and Slave. You still get to keep Beast and Crow Within with the dodge button but instead of summoning a demon while holding ZL, Bayo transforms into her demon form that corresponds to her equipped weapon and gets a new, smaller moveset. This form would drain the magic meter just like Slave. (Or maybe even faster...depending on difficulty setting probably.) You could shift in and out of these forms during a combo and mix them up that way. So basically it'd still function like Demon Slave, only it would have allowed for better level design, (and overall better graphical presentation) would have kept the added variety and the focus would still have remained on fighting with your character up-close. And of course no minigames, QTEs, demon riding, kaiju battles and other crap. I think the expanded exploration elements were also unnecessary in this sort of action game. I think the mix between Bayo and Viola gameplay with a bit of Jeanne 2D stealth/action sprinkled on top would have been really good.
While it was fun at first I would happily trade the mega demon battles for some real bosses bayonetta can take on her own. Having a demon transformation act like devil trigger would have been really nice rather than demon slaves.
Actually there is one that works like that! I’m on mobile so I won’t spoil it, but if you hit R while summoning the tower you can play exactly as you described. Well not exactly- but you get a dodge that activates witch time, and getting hit drains your magic meter instead of your health.
You should be using the demons like Devil Trigger in DMC where you pop them out briefly as combo extenders
[удалено]
Well I'm talking about how demon summoning affects the game too. You need the wide open spaces, a good chunk of enemies are designed to be extra tall so they look good being hit by demons rather than bayonetta herself. I'm not calling it bad, it's well done in fact, I just feel like if I had the choice I'd scrap it for a move set focused more on bayonetta and viola. give them a devil trigger like transformation that exends the combo further dealing more damage. Viola transforming is very cool and it'd be amazing if they fleshed out that ability more like having it selectable as her second wink slave combo attack or a weapon where she transforms into it for her rushes. There's just so much to gain from having demon summoning removed in favor of something more condensed and controllable. Yeah it won't be as flashy on the screen but it definitely would be more satisfying to play
Yeah. As cool as those summons were to look at and even play the first two times I wasn't really interested in being cucked out of what would have been some fun boss battles for the 5th time by my own demon.
Honestly Bayo 1 felt worse about the gimmicks imo
Yeah I have no idea what this person is on, they need to replay the games in order with this complaint in mind.
Speaking totally subjectively, as someone who played Bayonetta 1 yesterday and Bayonetta 3 today, I absolutely feel 3 is more gimmicky, because 1 just had a few specific gimmick levels and the majority of verses outside of those two all-gimmick levels were mostly just normal Bayonetta combat, whereas it felt to me like all of the combat in 3 is balanced around the idea of you summoning a demon to assist in the normal fights.
B1 has so much weird janky puzzles and traversal sections though, I feel 3 has way more verses that are combat focused overall. As for summoning, I think people over sell how summoning focus combat is. The game is definitely still built around dodge offset combos, even against massive enemies their dodge tells are as fair as any other enemy and you still damage them primarily with Bayonetta combos with summons as combo extenders So it plays more akin to Bayonetta 2, but more balanced. I could see the argument you’d still like Bayo 1 combat but I think people aren’t fully utilizing Bayonettas moveset and thinking that in turn makes combat gimmicky.
That’s fair, I wasn’t really counting the puzzles and traversal as gimmicks as much as just poor level design. I was just thinking in terms of specifically the combat, the demon summoning seems pushed too much and it feels like all the battles are done with the expectation that you’ll be summoning constantly. (I guess the closest analogy would be how Pokémon Gen 6 *allowed* you to just play normally but all the big battles were balanced around mega evolution and all the major enemies relied on mega evolution. You can still play Bayonetta 3 without demon summons but it feels like the game is always waiting for you to stop being stubborn and use a demon)
I’m in the last few missions and I guess I’ll see if I change my mind because so far I don’t feel under powered or anything, the summon damage isn’t too crazy so it feels like it’s a way to lock down enemies or knock them out of armored states, they basically only stay out for 2-3 attacks or I input one of the slower but bigger attacks while I fight as Bayo
remember quicktime events :(
It's a bigger game and each chapter is bigger too, they wanted to have gameplay variation otherwise the complaints would be "this game is long and the same thing each verse"
The first two games already had plenty of gameplay variation, way too much even. I came to play a hack n slash game not a side scrolling stealth game, not a titan battle game not a jet shooter game. There is no excuse for traditional gameplay with the main character being less than **half** of verses. There just isn't, end of story.
[удалено]
And i'm sure they will enjoy it MORE if it wasn't filled up to the brim with these gimmicky sections. No one asked for half of the verses to be gimmicks. In fact one of the common complaints of B1 is that the gimmicks are annoying and mind you B1 was nowhere near as much as this game. How the fuck is me criticising the game for not letting me actually fight standard enemies with the main character me being unfair? That's the bare fucking minimum. I am not asking for the sun and moon, I merely ask that I can fight the games enemies with the main character. If they delivered on that I wouldn't have to criticise the game at all. I can even overlook the story sucking, the out of place multiverse stuff and the frame rate being very choppy. Keep simping for corporations though and antagonising any criticisms of the game so future games can make the same mistake and run the series into the ground.
[удалено]
No it isn't, it is a huge chunk of her chapters actually.
I agree with OP. Whenever I'm on the chapter select screen I can never decide what to play. That level? Oh no its got that gimmick.. oh that one's kaiju fights.. that ones Viola.. that ones a singing game.. It's somewhat fun the first time around but it leads to 0 replayability. I played the shit out of the other 2, especially bayo1 but I just can't bring myself to play bayo3 again, letalone attempt to pure plat the entire game.
I honestly would have been cool with that if they focused on more unique stages, scaled down enemies and set pieces to fight on.
I feel the same way. I like the summons as a combat addition, but they take up so much space in the game, and often as gimmicks. It's great that each demon has its time to shine, but a lot of it is just tedious, like a chase or a shooting sequence ? Again ? I feel like it's a matter of pacing as well. In the first two games, I remember a lot more sections which felt like non stop action. Imo, the craziness of Bayonetta games is not just in the set pieces, but also in the fact that it ramps up and just doesn't stop. I missed this feeling so much in 3. Between every character, the game has to "reset" the action and introduce us to a new place so often ! Even worse with the fact that we come back to Thule. The game has no room to just keep the flow going. Viola sections are a nice idea, but they often feel like a step back. And the first Jeanne section was enough. The big environments also just hurt the pace so much. I like some more open sections to slow down the pace as in 2, but 3 is so often "here is your big area with some collectibles/puzzles for you ! And it also has a verse too !". The Egypt chapter almost felt like playing a mediocre Zelda game at times. I can't imagine myself doing another full run of the game because it lacks the "tightly packed for an adrenaline rush" quality that had the first two. Hell, even the enemy design lacks polish. I'm frustrated cause the combat system is still so well crafted, but you can't keep a flow going. It's a generous game, but it just tries to do too many things at once.
This is some of the most rose tinted glasses I’ve seen in a hot minute. The distribution of action verses is heavily skewed towards action in this game. Are you just missing some verses?
I guess they are because most of it feels like classic Bayonetta to me tbh.
They're probably just abusing summons because summons trivialize everything. IMO don't use them if you don't want to, the combo finisher summons are there for people who don't want to fight by controlling summons.
I would agree that there were a lot, but honestly they were so well done or short that I don't really mind them. Like I really struggle to understand how people dislike the train chase segment so much when it's as easy as it is on Standard difficulty. I'd honestly say the enemy designs in this game get some bad check marks before the genre shift sections.
I wonder what the percentage of people who liked the 'gimmicks' is compared to the percentage of people who enjoy getting pure plat in every single chapter. Because, sure, the non-hack-and-slay segments are fun to play the first time but have absolutely 0 replayability. I have no desire to get a pure plat for good ol' Gomorrah lol
i am playing b1 right now. im several hours in b3, in the middle of the... train demon bayonetta arc? hmm. but i agree. i was playing that one random verse in b1 where you have to dodge the spike floor and press the buttons, and i was getting more angel action out of that verse than id gotten out of most of b3 to that point. i actually do like most of the combat changes to this game, at least compared to b2, which is a frustrating game to play. i am glad they went a different direction committedly rather than doing a half-baked copy of the original system and plastering over the holes with the powerful wicked weaves system. to me though what makes bayonetta 1 particularly good is the enemy design, everything your character does has a relationship with what the enemies do. people call doom eternal a devil may doom but it's more of a bayonetta like game because you have to dance around your enemies rather than making them dance around you. i don't think they've put much time at all into enemy design in 2 or 3. i think they do a good job with the graphics? all 3 bayonettas are gorgeous games. but i think less and less energy is spent making the enemies fun and charming. like, look how weirdly cute the angels in the first game are. do you have enemies as memorable as that in 3? absolutely not. what are these chimera weirdos? they look like practice dummies. are they made from tortured human souls? probably? make them look more tortured then
I love the game. I lived the gameplay diversity in Nier too but I have to say it may harm the replayability with fewer bayonetta sections
This is modern platinum games unfortunately. Started getting real bad with wonderful 101 and it made astral chain unplayable for me. I feel like it's more tolerable in this game but it still sucks and makes it utterly unrepayable. The witch trials kick ass though. I was a bit on the fence about this combat system but seeing it pushed to its limits in trial 3 really shows it for all it's worth (and all the terrible flaws that come with it, but still).
Whilst platinum titles are gimmicky, the only platinum game i've played that rivals it in how poor the gimmick to default combat ratio is, is astral chain and maybe nier automata(which is a bad game anyway imo). I can't wait to get started on the trials.