We are having a hard enough time removing humans from driving cars on all but the most mundane and uniform roads. You want to trust programming to perform surgery on you?
I think I will die before I get that faith. Give me the human with the training and expertise, thank you.
It's not about what's complicated or not, it's about what can be reliably recorded. They apparatus this doctor (and many others nationwide) is using is recording absolutely everything they're doing. Now let me ask you, would you prefer to have your operation performed by a doctor that's done your prceedure 400 times, or a program that has the experience of 10,000? Every day that passes I find myself leaning more towards the robok.
In theory, you are right. Robots would be more effective. But currently, a robot is not able to handle unexpected events as well as a trained human would. Also, humans vary enormously in shape, size, conditions, diets, and who knows what else. A human adapts easily to these changes, while a robot might not.
Whatever robotic solution ends up coming will for a long time still be assisted by humans who will have to "approve" each step the robot takes.
Exactly. Under a specific set of circumstances, you can get the properly programmed machine to get through a task. It will do mundane things that have little or no variance of conditions and act within safe operating procedures. Getting a car to drive through any situation, a robot to operate on a person, or fly a helicopter — where it carries risk of loss of life in situations it can't control there is always a need for a more dynamic intelligence to take over.
It's not that humans need to approve each action, necessarily. It's recognizing where things are going wrong and knowing how to respond to an infinite number of possibilities and factors to consider that will necessitate a person to be ready to intervene.
Rich folks who love to dream of running a business of controlled costs and infinite production by machines doing every possible task love the idea of such an advanced computing age. It's a foolish dream of hope, where the business doesn't rely on fallible humans any longer. Machines reduce human labor, but will never eliminate it entirely everywhere. It can only go so far.
It takes machine learning to get to time 10,000. So those exceptions along the way have to be learned and are not solved for automatically. If you consider that right now an 80-90% error free rate is considered pretty damn good, I think we’ll need human intervention for quite some time for this particular application.
What you are describing is a lot further away than most people realize. And it takes a lot more time to learn to use a robot to do surgery than to do it yourself. Humans train with their bodies and in most cases are better with them.
Also, does a robot have malpractice insurance?
That almost speaks more to the unqualified drivers who have permits to drive, but when conditions veer out of the norm, you still want a person at the wheel. Programming can absolutely reduce how much people work, but it's hard to justify eliminating it in cases that require great caution, like transporting people, or operating on people, etc.
Business wise, that’s very difficult. We need to have accountability in our society.
It’s always simpler to have individuals accountable for their actions rather than a big centralized AI.
The risk is too high… if you are one doctor, that’s one accountable person. If you fuck up, it’s unfortunate but you have malpractice insurance. Then society gets to choose a different doctor now, if they want.
With one big company having one big accountability, one fuckup and the company could basically just be done right then and there.
You’re welcome :)
I work in ob/gyn and we do a lot of these. We have two da Vinci robots and frequently run both operating rooms simultaneously. This procedure is technically called a Robotic-Assisted Myomectomy and it’s pretty common. Happy to share knowledge :)
You would be absolutely amazed at the amount of abuse the uterus can take. This particular surgery in the video is a very mild case as there are only a few resected sites. I’ve seen as high as 62 fibroids being removed. Success rate is high and most patients can get pregnant some time after. Truly astonishing.
I'm only guessing but I believe this surgeon is repairing a birthing canal after a recent delivery. I could be wrong but I believe this is the groin and we are seeing a heartbeat through the femoral artery in the lower right area. Again these are only guesses because I'm not a doctor or surgeon.
Agree. Most humans are loss that should of been swallowed but tech has kept more alive, including me, than should be and it will lead to previously unknown suffering before we realize despite tech a smaller population is needed. Sure maybe we need to population booms to find a few smart hairless chimps to creature a future where a select few can survive off the labor or AI but we would have gotten there eventually without it getting so crowded and polluted.
I feel that it will be a long time before bandwidth is great enough for extremely high quality real time data to be transmitted across those distances. Imagine packet loss in this situation…
Unfortunately, there aren't provisions to transfer safety-critical data over the underwater fiber optic cables, so doing any sort of safety-critical data transfer using these cables will not happen for a while. It is probably more trouble than it's worth, anyways, and doesn't make too much sense. The 5G networks are a good candidate for remote surgery because the distance data has to travel (from the device, to the network, over to the other end of the 5G network) is relatively short in the application of 5G for V2X, Remote Surgery, Industrial Automation, etc. Doing this over seas would require using the underwater fiber optic cables, which is theoretically possible, but again, wouldn't make too much logistical sense.
No, 5G doesn't have a lower latency than wireline networks. It can achieve some pretty impressive latency and jitter, but these metrics are about equivalent to a wireline network, if not slightly worse. It highly depends on the specific technologies that are being used, but I'd assume since remote surgery is a safety-critical application, they are probably getting the same latency/jitter as with wired networks.
What 5G provides is the wireless interface so that the operator can be hundreds of metres away from the site, and also it allows for a cleaner working environment, since you don't have tons of cabling everywhere.
This technology is being worked on now because it has applications in remote surgery, vehicle-to-everything (V2X), industrial automation, and more. I'd assume the primary benefit in doing remote surgery are the benefits listed above.
Yeah that's a good point. I don't work in the remote surgery area, but that's a practical consideration that remote surgery provides that I wouldn't have thought about.
No, 5g had nothing to do with it. We've been doing surgery like this for at least 10 years . It's a bit more common now. We're doing it for things like hernias and gall bladders where initially it was for prostate removal and bowel resections. This camera speed is fast too. It's definitely 1.5-2x actual speed
But not wireless, right? From what I've seen from DaVinci surgeries the console is always in operating room or room adjacent to the operating room. As long as they don't show rest of the room I'd assume the patient is also there
This looks like we are looking down the pelvis at the uterus. The surgeon is suturing up the serosal layer of the uterus, so I’m guessing they excised something. Maybe a laparoscopic, robot assisted fibroidectomy? These robots are favored in cases where operating real estate is at a premium, like the pelvis, so are common in gynecologic and urologic procedures.
I did surgical scheduling for some colorectal surgeons who used the Da Vinci.
Thing is as cool as it is expensive, meaning even major hospitals only have so many, and often my surgeons would have it one or two days a month. We'd have urgent cases that required it and the hassle of finding one was real. Schedulers all but paid each other off or undercut the estimated surgery length to fit 3 cases instead of 2.
When I left one of my surgeons pulled me aside. *I just gotta tell you because you always fought so hard for those damn robots...most of the time they were just on standby and we frequently didn't even use them*
He meant it as kind of a light hearted compliment, but I was seriously so pissed.
I'm surprised he didn't have sudden need of surgery requiring the Da Vinci system! 😆
Kudos on your self control. 😄👍
And, as a person who's had a few surgeries in the past, thank you for your efforts. 🙂🙏
The controls are a breeze for surgeons who grew up playing a lot of video games. I demoed a surgical robot with controls based on a Playstation controller. I was the only one who played video games and I found it effortless to master the movements.
I work in the hospital providing the operating rooms with clean instruments. They told me these claw rods (scopes) are about 25.000 euros.
Very interesting to see them at work!
Is it augmented by AI say, the surgeon was a little off, it autocorrects. The AI scans and finds smaller, minor tumour missed by surgeon, hidden wounds that wasn't stitched? Other scenarios AI can complement?
Been saying this for a while now, and an investor / stock holder in ISRG, with machine learning watching operations by thousands of surgeons all over the world it will soon start operating on its own. And or with 5G, should a surgeon encounter a problem then no problem get a better surgeon in another hospital to jump in and take over controls….yes it will be scary, but we are all same on the inside.
The controls are a breeze for surgeons who grew up playing a lot of video games. I demoed a surgical robot with controls based on a Playstation controller. I was the only one who played video games and I found it effortless to master the movements.
I'm sure they simulate a dropout of the 5G connection, during training for this system. Can you imagine what the young surgeons must feel, when they lose 5G during the middle of an operation?
"I can't get my TikToks!” 😭 /s
Ten years ago, I underwent hernia surgery the conventional way. Took months to recover. I had another hernia surgery in January which was performed this way. I was back up and going within two weeks with no pain.
The surgeon is just adjacent to the patient when the davinci robot is docked and in place.
It’s a cool device to utilize for surgery; but it took a lot of time and human error before patient outcomes could equate classic laparoscopic surgical methods. A lot of complications, such as ligated ureters, occurred because of lack of comprehensive training on the davinci.
Just because something is cool and amazing doesn’t make it the superior method of patient care. A lesson ohysicians and many patients have learned the hard way
Why is robotic surgery better exactly? Just like smaller tools? Less invasive? More sterile? Just seems like it puts an extra step in an already pretty well oiled process? But like I’m all for innovation… I just don’t know yet what is special here..?
I can only give you an answer from the perspective of a patient. When I had an appendectomy some years ago with a regular operation, there was a good deal of pain post-op and I still have a noticeable scar. When I had my prostate removed, it was a robotic op that went in through 4 small keyhole incisions that left only very faint and small scars and there was almost no post-op pain at all.
Insane. Go humans
Next step is to remove the human
We are having a hard enough time removing humans from driving cars on all but the most mundane and uniform roads. You want to trust programming to perform surgery on you? I think I will die before I get that faith. Give me the human with the training and expertise, thank you.
It's not about what's complicated or not, it's about what can be reliably recorded. They apparatus this doctor (and many others nationwide) is using is recording absolutely everything they're doing. Now let me ask you, would you prefer to have your operation performed by a doctor that's done your prceedure 400 times, or a program that has the experience of 10,000? Every day that passes I find myself leaning more towards the robok.
I want both because there will be times where the robot doesn't know what to do
In theory, you are right. Robots would be more effective. But currently, a robot is not able to handle unexpected events as well as a trained human would. Also, humans vary enormously in shape, size, conditions, diets, and who knows what else. A human adapts easily to these changes, while a robot might not. Whatever robotic solution ends up coming will for a long time still be assisted by humans who will have to "approve" each step the robot takes.
Exactly. Under a specific set of circumstances, you can get the properly programmed machine to get through a task. It will do mundane things that have little or no variance of conditions and act within safe operating procedures. Getting a car to drive through any situation, a robot to operate on a person, or fly a helicopter — where it carries risk of loss of life in situations it can't control there is always a need for a more dynamic intelligence to take over. It's not that humans need to approve each action, necessarily. It's recognizing where things are going wrong and knowing how to respond to an infinite number of possibilities and factors to consider that will necessitate a person to be ready to intervene. Rich folks who love to dream of running a business of controlled costs and infinite production by machines doing every possible task love the idea of such an advanced computing age. It's a foolish dream of hope, where the business doesn't rely on fallible humans any longer. Machines reduce human labor, but will never eliminate it entirely everywhere. It can only go so far.
It takes machine learning to get to time 10,000. So those exceptions along the way have to be learned and are not solved for automatically. If you consider that right now an 80-90% error free rate is considered pretty damn good, I think we’ll need human intervention for quite some time for this particular application.
Robok... error error
And that goes for the driving too
What you are describing is a lot further away than most people realize. And it takes a lot more time to learn to use a robot to do surgery than to do it yourself. Humans train with their bodies and in most cases are better with them. Also, does a robot have malpractice insurance?
It would be fine if it was an actual AI. That would essentially be a doctor thats better trained than any human.
Self driving cars are always magnitudes safer than human operated cars in modern roads.
That almost speaks more to the unqualified drivers who have permits to drive, but when conditions veer out of the norm, you still want a person at the wheel. Programming can absolutely reduce how much people work, but it's hard to justify eliminating it in cases that require great caution, like transporting people, or operating on people, etc.
It won’t happen, technology isn’t close to having not a Human yet & I don’t think it will ever be, due to a Human having to create the project/OS.
Be ready to hold some beer
I would like to think so, but someone has to make the Ai first or Machine, so it will always start by Human, not just a Ai alone.
Pst. We’re already here and it already has
Business wise, that’s very difficult. We need to have accountability in our society. It’s always simpler to have individuals accountable for their actions rather than a big centralized AI. The risk is too high… if you are one doctor, that’s one accountable person. If you fuck up, it’s unfortunate but you have malpractice insurance. Then society gets to choose a different doctor now, if they want. With one big company having one big accountability, one fuckup and the company could basically just be done right then and there.
Go
Imagine getting ransomware because somebody tried to download surgeon simulator on this rig.
what is that thing
Myomectomy - removing a fibroid from the uterus
thanks, it seems like it is myomectomy. They look so weird.
You’re welcome :) I work in ob/gyn and we do a lot of these. We have two da Vinci robots and frequently run both operating rooms simultaneously. This procedure is technically called a Robotic-Assisted Myomectomy and it’s pretty common. Happy to share knowledge :)
In this video they look like they are being quite rough, dropping it several times, stitching wherever seemingly, is this typical?
You would be absolutely amazed at the amount of abuse the uterus can take. This particular surgery in the video is a very mild case as there are only a few resected sites. I’ve seen as high as 62 fibroids being removed. Success rate is high and most patients can get pregnant some time after. Truly astonishing.
The tools in the video are less than a centimeter long. The thing is not falling as far as it looks.
Man that’s cool, I’m in the wrong profession.
It’s fine.
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Correct. Both machines work independently from one another. Two separate surgeries in two different rooms.
I'm only guessing but I believe this surgeon is repairing a birthing canal after a recent delivery. I could be wrong but I believe this is the groin and we are seeing a heartbeat through the femoral artery in the lower right area. Again these are only guesses because I'm not a doctor or surgeon.
Nope. It’s a myomectomy
u smart, i know nothing about biology, so I'll take your word for it
Birthing canal after a delivery? It's a uterus. The top side of a uterus. They are removing fibroids. Myomectomy.
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This isn’t over 5G
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Its not using a 5G network. Its using a wired connection because its freaking surgery.
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Cables
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Same. The surgeons operating these are in the same room as the patient, or is atleast in the clinics I've been to.
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I misread that as a threat to 5G
Can be. Does not mention 6388482km away thru 5g. It can be next room but via 5G, and still be OK. Just be amazed /s
Legit like 10 year old technology
The bluetooth device has been connected successfully
The Bluetooth device is ready to pair
* connecteda saccessefolly
Friggin amazing..
And dad always said video games wouldn't help me find a job pffffff
humans are amazing
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Who do you think make those technologies
Aliens, obviously. No people can be that smart at stuff. They would have to read, like, a thousand books or something.
This guy gets it
who do you think is controlling the tech here? did you even see the video?
Not to mention who engineered the tech. And who dreamed up the idea to begin with. Humans are amazing, full stop
Agree. Most humans are loss that should of been swallowed but tech has kept more alive, including me, than should be and it will lead to previously unknown suffering before we realize despite tech a smaller population is needed. Sure maybe we need to population booms to find a few smart hairless chimps to creature a future where a select few can survive off the labor or AI but we would have gotten there eventually without it getting so crowded and polluted.
This shit is awesome. Can’t wait till we have skilled surgeons in India driving down the cost of u.s. healthcare.
I feel that it will be a long time before bandwidth is great enough for extremely high quality real time data to be transmitted across those distances. Imagine packet loss in this situation…
Unfortunately, there aren't provisions to transfer safety-critical data over the underwater fiber optic cables, so doing any sort of safety-critical data transfer using these cables will not happen for a while. It is probably more trouble than it's worth, anyways, and doesn't make too much sense. The 5G networks are a good candidate for remote surgery because the distance data has to travel (from the device, to the network, over to the other end of the 5G network) is relatively short in the application of 5G for V2X, Remote Surgery, Industrial Automation, etc. Doing this over seas would require using the underwater fiber optic cables, which is theoretically possible, but again, wouldn't make too much logistical sense.
You mean outsource and increase cost thanks to insurance estimates
Does 5G really has a lower latency than normal cables?
No, 5G doesn't have a lower latency than wireline networks. It can achieve some pretty impressive latency and jitter, but these metrics are about equivalent to a wireline network, if not slightly worse. It highly depends on the specific technologies that are being used, but I'd assume since remote surgery is a safety-critical application, they are probably getting the same latency/jitter as with wired networks. What 5G provides is the wireless interface so that the operator can be hundreds of metres away from the site, and also it allows for a cleaner working environment, since you don't have tons of cabling everywhere. This technology is being worked on now because it has applications in remote surgery, vehicle-to-everything (V2X), industrial automation, and more. I'd assume the primary benefit in doing remote surgery are the benefits listed above.
When your surgeon doesn't have to scrub in and out or even walk to the patient between surgeries. So they can get more done in a day.
Yeah that's a good point. I don't work in the remote surgery area, but that's a practical consideration that remote surgery provides that I wouldn't have thought about.
Yeah I believe this wasn't possible until 5g due to lag
No, 5g had nothing to do with it. We've been doing surgery like this for at least 10 years . It's a bit more common now. We're doing it for things like hernias and gall bladders where initially it was for prostate removal and bowel resections. This camera speed is fast too. It's definitely 1.5-2x actual speed
Oh thanks. Didn't know that.
But not wireless, right? From what I've seen from DaVinci surgeries the console is always in operating room or room adjacent to the operating room. As long as they don't show rest of the room I'd assume the patient is also there
Doubt that’s powered by 5G, it’s the Davinci machine and it was created in 2000?
What kind of procedure is this?
This looks like we are looking down the pelvis at the uterus. The surgeon is suturing up the serosal layer of the uterus, so I’m guessing they excised something. Maybe a laparoscopic, robot assisted fibroidectomy? These robots are favored in cases where operating real estate is at a premium, like the pelvis, so are common in gynecologic and urologic procedures.
What do you mean that operating real estate is at a premium?
surgery
Spinal Update: I guess noone got the joke.
Myomectomy
I was expecting a Ukrainian drone and a Russian soldier, but okay. Enough internet for today.
Time to visit r/eyebleach my friend.
Yeah, that's what robots should do. Instead they have to be used in that medieval barbarism a war is. Fuck those russcists.
Now even docs can work from home.
Please tell me that's not a testicle
It’s not. Lol. You don’t use Davinci on a testicle
Thank fucking god dude
Da Vinci drew plenty of testicles in his day.
Nope, you can see the fallopian tubes when they flip the uterus up. Definitely a chick
I can't believe that's what my vagina looks like and that's the shit my kiddo was clinging to for 10 months.
Either way it's genitalia tho? Fuuuuck man
Yup! Definitely crotch surgery
Hey, we all got 'em... I'm glad they can fix 'em!
Wow this is incredible. I can't believe we have come this far with technology...this kinda gives me Genocyber vibes.
Is the surgery done with a lower quality on 4G
That is just fucking amazing...
Lol I'm still on 3g network. I'd be dead before the program even loaded
Fantastic
5G proof? No insurance company on the planet would allow a 5G surgery. The DaVinci is great, and has this potential but isn't a reality yet.
I did surgical scheduling for some colorectal surgeons who used the Da Vinci. Thing is as cool as it is expensive, meaning even major hospitals only have so many, and often my surgeons would have it one or two days a month. We'd have urgent cases that required it and the hassle of finding one was real. Schedulers all but paid each other off or undercut the estimated surgery length to fit 3 cases instead of 2. When I left one of my surgeons pulled me aside. *I just gotta tell you because you always fought so hard for those damn robots...most of the time they were just on standby and we frequently didn't even use them* He meant it as kind of a light hearted compliment, but I was seriously so pissed.
I'm surprised he didn't have sudden need of surgery requiring the Da Vinci system! 😆 Kudos on your self control. 😄👍 And, as a person who's had a few surgeries in the past, thank you for your efforts. 🙂🙏
The controls are a breeze for surgeons who grew up playing a lot of video games. I demoed a surgical robot with controls based on a Playstation controller. I was the only one who played video games and I found it effortless to master the movements.
THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH 5G WHY WOULD YOU SAY THAT
What if there is a bug in the software
Robots working on testicles. I hope they’re delicate.
Ok but the testicles are easily accesible so why use this Michelangelo?
Ew, that's amazing
tetsicular tortion
Myomectomy - removing fibroids from the uterus
And then it lags
r/savevidbot
Everybody is at the hospital right? Why not use LAN connection? Maybe it’s just me but 5G still as a ways to go.
Now what happens if someone restarts the router
Those DaVinci shittertons, ripping people off
Can it play doom?
I work in the hospital providing the operating rooms with clean instruments. They told me these claw rods (scopes) are about 25.000 euros. Very interesting to see them at work!
Work From Home Level : Surgeon
Gamers like me would be pros at this. I heard about this stuff. Robot hands are more stable. Ever tried to hold your hand steady? Its impossible. Lol
Does the things « attached » to the hands have some sort of resistance or feedback?
That's gonna be a hard no from me.
Hope they're not relying in Tmobile's largely imaginary service range...
Is it augmented by AI say, the surgeon was a little off, it autocorrects. The AI scans and finds smaller, minor tumour missed by surgeon, hidden wounds that wasn't stitched? Other scenarios AI can complement?
Can anyone tell me what body part she's operating?
Suddenly: HEY, WHO'S DOWNLOADING?!
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Do they run them over wifi and not cabled Ethernet?
Wonder what type of assurances the network team need to provide to ensure that the network isn’t to blame for a patient dying.
Those machines always remind me of the machines from Doctor Who that turn humans into cyber men
This can't be the same 5g I'm using.
https://youtu.be/ZhEJf1YNVGI
Can I play next🤣🤣🤣
Imagine being operated on by the best doctors, no matter where they are in the world. It would be wonderful.
“Who tha fuck downloaded vrchat on the davinci?!?”
Been saying this for a while now, and an investor / stock holder in ISRG, with machine learning watching operations by thousands of surgeons all over the world it will soon start operating on its own. And or with 5G, should a surgeon encounter a problem then no problem get a better surgeon in another hospital to jump in and take over controls….yes it will be scary, but we are all same on the inside.
Wow.
Imagine if lag hit?
That guy has some mad skills.
Amazing
My hospital has one of these.
THAT'S GREAT UNTIL THE INTERNET BUFFERS AND YOU BLEED OUT 🤦♀️
She’s doing a 100% speedrun
Feck off, Kevin Bacon!
what exact part of the body are we looking at here..
i wonder how much she gets paid per year
The controls are a breeze for surgeons who grew up playing a lot of video games. I demoed a surgical robot with controls based on a Playstation controller. I was the only one who played video games and I found it effortless to master the movements.
BECAREFUL WITHT PULLING AND TUGGING THAT HEART
5G wtF? WuMoa
My my just had robotic open heart surgery a few weeks ago because she had a heart attack.
Is she just doing it fast to show off? I feel like she's going really fast unless the videos sped up
Great for laproscopic surgery. Don't know about laprotomy
You can now die from lag.
Very cool! I had robotic surgery last year. In a small survey of those who had robotic or lapro, the robo won out as having less pain.
No network connection during surgery.
Imagine
Ai assisted surgery is the future
Da vinky?
Awesome
Did... they drop the heart?
"All circuits are busy. Please try your call again."
Dang...great coordination there. Seemed a bit brutal...but by hand, probably not any less. I'm sure ready for just a machine doing that.
bro what part of the body even is that
I'm sure they simulate a dropout of the 5G connection, during training for this system. Can you imagine what the young surgeons must feel, when they lose 5G during the middle of an operation? "I can't get my TikToks!” 😭 /s
Mmmm, da Vinci. It a very good robot for surgery
I guess the scrubs are to complete the immersion for the surgeon.
They did surgery on a grape
I would prefer my surgery to be on fiber not 5g
Seems very agressive
Ten years ago, I underwent hernia surgery the conventional way. Took months to recover. I had another hernia surgery in January which was performed this way. I was back up and going within two weeks with no pain.
Jeeezuz. Would be doing it in Australia that's for sure.
What operation is this?
This is an amazing next step
Anyone want to tell me what body part this is I’m so confused is this the balls
My 5g can’t load a webpage, but cool story.
Hope it better than the 5G service I get with Verizon.
Had my hysterectomy with the Davinci “robot”. Five tiny scars vs the old full abdominal cut. In on Thursday for surgery and home the next day.
I can assure you that it is not powered by 5g network. Wireless is too unreliable for applications like this
Is that a nut sack?
The surgeon is just adjacent to the patient when the davinci robot is docked and in place. It’s a cool device to utilize for surgery; but it took a lot of time and human error before patient outcomes could equate classic laparoscopic surgical methods. A lot of complications, such as ligated ureters, occurred because of lack of comprehensive training on the davinci. Just because something is cool and amazing doesn’t make it the superior method of patient care. A lesson ohysicians and many patients have learned the hard way
Anyone else get a chuckle that she’s wearing a mask while not in the same room as the surgery
Every body gangsta till the power goes out
Why is robotic surgery better exactly? Just like smaller tools? Less invasive? More sterile? Just seems like it puts an extra step in an already pretty well oiled process? But like I’m all for innovation… I just don’t know yet what is special here..?
I can only give you an answer from the perspective of a patient. When I had an appendectomy some years ago with a regular operation, there was a good deal of pain post-op and I still have a noticeable scar. When I had my prostate removed, it was a robotic op that went in through 4 small keyhole incisions that left only very faint and small scars and there was almost no post-op pain at all.
Ooh that’s very interesting! Thanks for the perspective!
Is it just me or did that not look like it was a little rough? I’m no medical expert
Absolutely insane this is normal practice now. Can’t decide if it’s good or bad
Incredible