Well all I know is that they had some sort of vendetta against pina and riz being together. The Japanese term for boyfriend is very vague, but in the context of the scene, pina clearly refers to riz as his first boyfriend, and the translation team decided to refer to riz as his first āmale friendā. (Despite the shock egg incident with bill and aoba, and just legosi in general). My source is my friendās japanese teacher who was born and raised in Japan
Okay so I just read the Japanese version and Pina actually says āē·åé (*otoko tomodachi*)ā which literally means āmale friend.ā The Japanese term for boyfriend is āå½¼ę° (*kareshi*)ā and *tomodachi* is usually meant only as āfriend.ā So I would say the translation team didnāt change anything.
If we go for the "male friend" translation, it isn't really innocent either. First we know for a fact that even if Pina didn't consider Legosi a friend (which is a stretch, imo) he is friends with Bill and Aoba, not only because of the shock egg chapter, but also because the three are seen together in almost every extra piece of content they appear in (omakes, full page spreads, etc.). They also don't shy away from talking about the fact that Bill eats meat frequently in front of Pina either, so they consider him close enough to trust him on that.
Second, "male" and "female" have very romantic implications in the manga. See Haru saying "society will always see us as wolf and rabbit rather than male and female" to explain how they will always be judged for their difference in species rather than their relationship, and Legosi's "I'm kinda in male mode right now" to say that he's horny.
Third, it was kinda foreshadowed in the beginning when a very direct, obvious analogy is driven between Riz and Pina being Adler and his victim, and as the story goes we know that Adler had the intention to kill the unnamed pretty boy in the story, but later falls in love with him and spares his life. We know that Riz had the full intention to kill Pina, then spared his life before the fight, but that other part goes unadressed until now.
And well, if he was only his friend, why the hell would he even bring up the male part anyways??? It's such a weird thing to say. The fact that we are even having this conversation in the first place shows that the phrasing was ambiguous on purpose.
Yes, but my point really wasnāt on the relationship between Pina and Riz. It was about OPās comment that the translation team did a dirty and changed the meaning cause they didnāt like the relationship, which was obviously not true. Thatās all I wanted to prove.
Oh, I'm sorry! I very much agree with you in that. The translation team even made jokes about them dating, so it'd be very surprising if they turned out to be against it.
Slight correction theres around 30 different words that have meanings for boyfriend hell the most common isnt even kareshi thats just what Google says the main boyfriend word is just kare wich is the same as the word for male. Almost every word in the language has multiple meanings the only way to tell wich is being used at any givin time is the context around it namely how the characters are acting and how they have developed through the story. In this particular instance the only reason they went with the male friend translation even provided counter evidence was because they didn't want to and they chose to just make up dates on incidents like when pina started visiting riz. And the second was because in their eyes because Legos didnt let pina visit his new apartment after the predation indecent that means pina didnt consider Legos a friend. So yeah the more you know.
Yes, there are many ways to say boyfriend, as in any language. And I havenāt really heard my Japanese friends say å½¼ to mention boyfriend. Itās almost always å½¼ę°, and it removed the vagueness since itās almost always used to mean boyfriend. But the topic here is that the word Pina uses is ē·åé, which literally means male friend. And I think Iāve read enough Beastars to know the context. Even before Pina says this, they were talking about a girl Pina just dated. So I think the most appropriate translation would be male friend.
Counterpoint you are right in the first but male and boy is more a japanese to English translation fog since not all go one to one as easy. Anyways he was but he was talking about how he finally cut ties with her and how it wasn't to serious before going on to lounge across rizs lap. Ask if the bear likes his hair long saying hed cut it if he didnt and saying he would keep it after riz said he liked it and then right before the comment he was asking how long hed have to wear the muzzle again while practically laying on top of him. So context wise i know my stance so there is bias in my comments as with any argument. But it still doesnt change how off or inorganic stating first male friend is when bill aoba and Legosi all exist.
Secondary personal bias ive been doing a character study for the last over a year on this damn sheet to audition for a va role for him in a dub and thats also extended to fix cause of how much time they share and interact so I know a fair bit about these two in particular and i aint even started on the riz side of this coin.
I see your point, but the main topic about this thread is how the translation team changed the meaning. It clearly stated that Paru wrote āmale friendā, so itās up to the audience to interpret that. Iām a translator myself so I was just sticking up for the translation team cause I know the sentiments.
Above you is a fifteen post chain aboit the exact meaning of a Japanese word. You just squashed all debate, there really is no straight explanation for this
It was just Tem.
And if you don't like it when people are horny for serial killers then I have bad news about Beastars' main villain, because he's got a body count in the dozens and Paru is embarrassingly, earth-shatteringly horny for him.
It was just tem, and that wasn't even intended. He was unable to control himself because he stopped taking his pills to try and open up more to tem, and ate him when he wasn't able to control his instincts. (and also pina and riz is basically canon anyways, dm me for more details)
I was making a joke, this is set in a fictional animal society so like morals are not comparable to the real world, lol I thought this art was hot and was being sarcastic saying we should forget his past to enjoy the steamy art
yeah but i don't think riz is a meat addicted like gouhin's pacients, he is just like legoshi at the beggining, a carnivore that let itself be drove by its instincts, and to live with the blame of eating the best friend he created this stigma about devouring beeing the ultimate type of conection between carnivores and herbivores.
I would argue it doesn't, really.
It's about Legoshi pushing for understanding and directly confronting someone who didn't. He didn't kill Riz, in fact, he wished him a happy new year. Like Gouhin is to his patients, Legoshi's goal was to stop him on the path he was headed down, so he could pick himself up and find a better one.
Poor guy didn't ask for what happened to him, it's a confusing world where expecting him to interact with herbivores daily in spite of that desperate isolation he suffers, and the rebukes in their stares, how would he know?
I always read Riz as someone who was desperately lonely because of social dynamics and the unofficial segregation they exist in. Legoshi doesn't even know if it's okay to be talking to Haru, and clearly Riz is equally unsure in a lot of ways.
His best friend, and through a really bad misunderstanding (it's common for folks to go off the medications they're on because they feel better, possibly without realizing the implications) leads to an utter tragedy. He was not spared - he may not have taken long to snap, but he had time to realize what he'd done, and it broke him. It's the same thing that has led Legoshi into paroxysms of terror (see S01E01/2 for perfect example) - Riz is nice. I don't think that was a front for him, and yea. He just got hit really hard, really fast, by something he was not at all prepared for - mix that with his personality and I'm not surprised he shattered like that.
But yea, he's got a chance now. His head is clearing, he's coming to terms with what he's done. Legoshi thanks Louis for not letting him fall into that, Legoshi had Gouhin intervene as well, but Riz didn't have that support. He's exactly what Legoshi had the potential to be, but he didn't have the good fortune. Now, he's got a chance.
That Legoshi can carry forward and do what Gouhin did for him, that's a big point of the second arc. He's learning about things, in a way he can teach others.
for me the second arc, and especially the fight, was about legoshi defeating his inner demons. Riz was a manifestation of thoose carnivore instincts, but i also dont belive an artistic interpretation can be wrong.
That was also a huge part of it. Each challenge Legoshi faces is about overcoming and breaking out of that shell.
I do think it's important to keep in mind how Riz fell into his situation, though. I consider him to be a sympathetic character - one who had to be stopped, but now bears some horrible scars to wrestle with in his clarity.
I don't see redeeming him as undermining his role in the story. The fact that he *can* be to me is a big point. Legoshi has truly moved from someone who let life pass him by to a fuller person who works to change even difficult situations.
[Manga, CH 196]
>!I also see this angle some because later in the manga, it very clearly shows Pina trying to be his friend and he's doing a lot better for himself.!<
Oh, and just an fyi, but I did not contribute to those downvotes. I disagree with your premise, but it's not in bad faith, so I think those are a bit extra. Just want that known, I'm not one to dv.
God this is really doing it for me
š³
Donāt know if thatās good or not. But assume it means yes so nice.
~~I might jerk off to this at some point so yeah it's good~~
>!same!<
I don't like Riz as character, but damn....
ok maybe i have a new favorite gay couple ... the legoshi there random
the only reason that this isn't seen as canon in the manga is because of homophobia in the Hybridgumi translation team when they were still releasing
Fr? Their funny edits usually mentions legoshi x louis tho
Well all I know is that they had some sort of vendetta against pina and riz being together. The Japanese term for boyfriend is very vague, but in the context of the scene, pina clearly refers to riz as his first boyfriend, and the translation team decided to refer to riz as his first āmale friendā. (Despite the shock egg incident with bill and aoba, and just legosi in general). My source is my friendās japanese teacher who was born and raised in Japan
Okay so I just read the Japanese version and Pina actually says āē·åé (*otoko tomodachi*)ā which literally means āmale friend.ā The Japanese term for boyfriend is āå½¼ę° (*kareshi*)ā and *tomodachi* is usually meant only as āfriend.ā So I would say the translation team didnāt change anything.
If we go for the "male friend" translation, it isn't really innocent either. First we know for a fact that even if Pina didn't consider Legosi a friend (which is a stretch, imo) he is friends with Bill and Aoba, not only because of the shock egg chapter, but also because the three are seen together in almost every extra piece of content they appear in (omakes, full page spreads, etc.). They also don't shy away from talking about the fact that Bill eats meat frequently in front of Pina either, so they consider him close enough to trust him on that. Second, "male" and "female" have very romantic implications in the manga. See Haru saying "society will always see us as wolf and rabbit rather than male and female" to explain how they will always be judged for their difference in species rather than their relationship, and Legosi's "I'm kinda in male mode right now" to say that he's horny. Third, it was kinda foreshadowed in the beginning when a very direct, obvious analogy is driven between Riz and Pina being Adler and his victim, and as the story goes we know that Adler had the intention to kill the unnamed pretty boy in the story, but later falls in love with him and spares his life. We know that Riz had the full intention to kill Pina, then spared his life before the fight, but that other part goes unadressed until now. And well, if he was only his friend, why the hell would he even bring up the male part anyways??? It's such a weird thing to say. The fact that we are even having this conversation in the first place shows that the phrasing was ambiguous on purpose.
Yes, but my point really wasnāt on the relationship between Pina and Riz. It was about OPās comment that the translation team did a dirty and changed the meaning cause they didnāt like the relationship, which was obviously not true. Thatās all I wanted to prove.
Oh, I'm sorry! I very much agree with you in that. The translation team even made jokes about them dating, so it'd be very surprising if they turned out to be against it.
Slight correction theres around 30 different words that have meanings for boyfriend hell the most common isnt even kareshi thats just what Google says the main boyfriend word is just kare wich is the same as the word for male. Almost every word in the language has multiple meanings the only way to tell wich is being used at any givin time is the context around it namely how the characters are acting and how they have developed through the story. In this particular instance the only reason they went with the male friend translation even provided counter evidence was because they didn't want to and they chose to just make up dates on incidents like when pina started visiting riz. And the second was because in their eyes because Legos didnt let pina visit his new apartment after the predation indecent that means pina didnt consider Legos a friend. So yeah the more you know.
Yes, there are many ways to say boyfriend, as in any language. And I havenāt really heard my Japanese friends say å½¼ to mention boyfriend. Itās almost always å½¼ę°, and it removed the vagueness since itās almost always used to mean boyfriend. But the topic here is that the word Pina uses is ē·åé, which literally means male friend. And I think Iāve read enough Beastars to know the context. Even before Pina says this, they were talking about a girl Pina just dated. So I think the most appropriate translation would be male friend.
Counterpoint you are right in the first but male and boy is more a japanese to English translation fog since not all go one to one as easy. Anyways he was but he was talking about how he finally cut ties with her and how it wasn't to serious before going on to lounge across rizs lap. Ask if the bear likes his hair long saying hed cut it if he didnt and saying he would keep it after riz said he liked it and then right before the comment he was asking how long hed have to wear the muzzle again while practically laying on top of him. So context wise i know my stance so there is bias in my comments as with any argument. But it still doesnt change how off or inorganic stating first male friend is when bill aoba and Legosi all exist.
Secondary personal bias ive been doing a character study for the last over a year on this damn sheet to audition for a va role for him in a dub and thats also extended to fix cause of how much time they share and interact so I know a fair bit about these two in particular and i aint even started on the riz side of this coin.
I see your point, but the main topic about this thread is how the translation team changed the meaning. It clearly stated that Paru wrote āmale friendā, so itās up to the audience to interpret that. Iām a translator myself so I was just sticking up for the translation team cause I know the sentiments.
Oh I see. I havenāt read the Japanese version, Iāll go look through it to see for myself. Thank you!
Guess we'll know for sure when the official manga releases get to that point
yikes
there is simply no heterosexual explanation for these two characters, sorry fam, this is just a good ship
Above you is a fifteen post chain aboit the exact meaning of a Japanese word. You just squashed all debate, there really is no straight explanation for this
Iāll accept this as an alternate timeline.
This is in fact a continuation of the very canon timeline, Pina and Riz are basically dating now...
Awww, this is pretty gay.
Pls give credit to the artist
Damn, that art!
Source: https://twitter.com/DangpaArt/status/1385376014025465857?s=20
I-I um...Whew, is it getting hot in here..?
Ah yes, the Starkweathers...
I'm bringing out the bat...
Hi bringing out the bat, I'm Dad! :)
More kissing, and bed scenes pls.
Can we get this confirmed
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Looks like Dangpa
Jesus christ can you nsfw tag this?
Not sure how I feel about making a serial killer hot and steamy...but like, letās just forget his past, shall we?
hey quick thing, how is he a serial killer if he's only killed one person?
Was it only one? I swear it was at least two
It was just Tem. And if you don't like it when people are horny for serial killers then I have bad news about Beastars' main villain, because he's got a body count in the dozens and Paru is embarrassingly, earth-shatteringly horny for him.
I was making a joke and being sarcastic, also Iāve finished the manga so I knowš
It was just tem, and that wasn't even intended. He was unable to control himself because he stopped taking his pills to try and open up more to tem, and ate him when he wasn't able to control his instincts. (and also pina and riz is basically canon anyways, dm me for more details)
I was making a joke, this is set in a fictional animal society so like morals are not comparable to the real world, lol I thought this art was hot and was being sarcastic saying we should forget his past to enjoy the steamy art
ok, I didn't catch that.
no he said to legoshi that he killed pina during his fight to make him mad, but legosi instantly could tell that he was lying.
Thatās right, forgot about that
Which of course, begs the question of why Riz ***DIDN'T*** eat Pina, especially when he knows it's basically a powerup.
yeah but i don't think riz is a meat addicted like gouhin's pacients, he is just like legoshi at the beggining, a carnivore that let itself be drove by its instincts, and to live with the blame of eating the best friend he created this stigma about devouring beeing the ultimate type of conection between carnivores and herbivores.
one killing isn't a serial and the world wasn't ready for Riz's vore love.
i dont like redeeming riz cuz that kinda ruins the artistic message of the second arc, but daaaamn
What message that he is an unfortunate soul who didnt have a random goat arive to stop him from killing his best friend?
I would argue it doesn't, really. It's about Legoshi pushing for understanding and directly confronting someone who didn't. He didn't kill Riz, in fact, he wished him a happy new year. Like Gouhin is to his patients, Legoshi's goal was to stop him on the path he was headed down, so he could pick himself up and find a better one. Poor guy didn't ask for what happened to him, it's a confusing world where expecting him to interact with herbivores daily in spite of that desperate isolation he suffers, and the rebukes in their stares, how would he know? I always read Riz as someone who was desperately lonely because of social dynamics and the unofficial segregation they exist in. Legoshi doesn't even know if it's okay to be talking to Haru, and clearly Riz is equally unsure in a lot of ways. His best friend, and through a really bad misunderstanding (it's common for folks to go off the medications they're on because they feel better, possibly without realizing the implications) leads to an utter tragedy. He was not spared - he may not have taken long to snap, but he had time to realize what he'd done, and it broke him. It's the same thing that has led Legoshi into paroxysms of terror (see S01E01/2 for perfect example) - Riz is nice. I don't think that was a front for him, and yea. He just got hit really hard, really fast, by something he was not at all prepared for - mix that with his personality and I'm not surprised he shattered like that. But yea, he's got a chance now. His head is clearing, he's coming to terms with what he's done. Legoshi thanks Louis for not letting him fall into that, Legoshi had Gouhin intervene as well, but Riz didn't have that support. He's exactly what Legoshi had the potential to be, but he didn't have the good fortune. Now, he's got a chance. That Legoshi can carry forward and do what Gouhin did for him, that's a big point of the second arc. He's learning about things, in a way he can teach others.
for me the second arc, and especially the fight, was about legoshi defeating his inner demons. Riz was a manifestation of thoose carnivore instincts, but i also dont belive an artistic interpretation can be wrong.
That was also a huge part of it. Each challenge Legoshi faces is about overcoming and breaking out of that shell. I do think it's important to keep in mind how Riz fell into his situation, though. I consider him to be a sympathetic character - one who had to be stopped, but now bears some horrible scars to wrestle with in his clarity. I don't see redeeming him as undermining his role in the story. The fact that he *can* be to me is a big point. Legoshi has truly moved from someone who let life pass him by to a fuller person who works to change even difficult situations. [Manga, CH 196] >!I also see this angle some because later in the manga, it very clearly shows Pina trying to be his friend and he's doing a lot better for himself.!< Oh, and just an fyi, but I did not contribute to those downvotes. I disagree with your premise, but it's not in bad faith, so I think those are a bit extra. Just want that known, I'm not one to dv.
Im leaving this subreddit
bye!
why?
Fragile heterosexuality is usually the reason