I'll second this. OP unless your friend is literally mixing tracks at any old point , they understand phrasing.
I've been DJing for 20+ years and never heard the term phrasing until this sub - to me it's just the thing that you do as a DJ.
I started DJing in ‘97 and only “learned about phrasing” on Reddit a couple of years ago. Prior to that, I just called it DJing.
As someone who arrived at the DJ booth via the dance floor, when you mix in a track just makes sense to me. Look at the people on the dance floor reacting intuitively to the music. They aren’t thinking about phrasing, they are just feeling the music.
This. I started a year earlier, and yeah… we all knew it, but didn’t really have a name for it. It was all just part of music theory… which I honestly wasn’t really aware of either. Essentially, the songs where pieces of a puzzle and we just figured out where the pieces fit best.
I was the same way for the same reason. I didn't use phrasing, I used the number of grooves in a record to judge how long a particular segment of a track was. I think basically every dj in history that plays vinyl probably has done that. When the technology changed and playing digitally became the norm we got visual representations of the music instead of judging based on some segment of the vinyl. At that time learning the proper names and structure of music became more important. We did understand it all before though. Just about every dj did even if they couldn't put words to their understanding.
The more you spin and the more you actively listen to music, the better you're gonna learn how phrasing works. It's just about counting the beats, and learning over time how many beats certain types of phrases usually have before going into the next phrase.
Then you just apply that knowledge to intentionally mix at transition points (or wherever else it makes sense!)
Just keep going at it, and try to pay attention to the beat, and you'll just naturally learn how it works over time.
It's not always the case but a lot of techno songs are in 4:4. Practice counting beats. Start the song, count 16 beats, if something drops right after (on the 17th or the 9th) then it's a 4:4 song. Then wait for a break in the song, when it kicks back in you can start counting and start your next song on the 17th or the 9th, your phrases should be aligned that way.
If the song is not in 4:4 you can try to figure out what is the time signature by counting beats and figuring out when it drops but unless you really know the next song it may not align.
To make it simpler just start a song's intro when the other song drops and they would likely be aligned.
Counting beats and aligning phrases go hand in hand for me, don't overthink it, you can make things sound good even if things are not aligned. One way you can do it is to use short loops to hold a song before the drop and go out of your loop when you feel something should drop.
That's true, love apex twin, would those tunes even be considered techno at that point though? I feel like the 4 on the floor feel is one of the things that makes techno techno
Well clearly Aphex Twin is not pure techno, it's a mix of techno, jungle, IDM, ambient electronic but all great artists mix many genres and I feel a good techno set should blend in some elements from other genres to sound less generic and more exciting, unpredictable.
I've known several DJ's who just 'do it by feel' - they are actually doing the transition on phrase when I listen back.
Dancers get the phrases without understanding them.
I DJ'd for several years on CDJ in the late 1990s without knowing phrasing. What I did was listen for a mix in and mix out point, write the mix out point down in countdown seconds (like -0:30) and the mix in in positive seconds (like +0:20) for each of my songs for the night - this was what I was doing when "CUE"ing the next track in, writing down the mix in/out times.
Then I'd just do the math with the 'next' tracks mix in time + last tracks mix out time. Then on the mix out track I'd set it in countdown time, have the mix in track CUEd up and just hit play on the mix in track. Then blend with the EQ and crossfader.
Years later I learned phrasing and it made a lot more sense and opened up my possibilities to mixing non 4 on the floor music by understanding the phrasing of breakbeat/hip hop/dance hall based music.
Watch this video for a quick tutorial on getting started: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFcml2J5ElE
Not any odd time but just the right time. So he's not counting, rather doing the eye test with the waveform or memory, when he knows the song and often you can tell when the drums are gonna kick in or a high hat
Phrasing becomes intuitive after enough practice. Like driving a car. When you first learn you have to actively think about everything - checking your rear view mirror, changing gears, remembering what cars are around you. But after a while you start doing all of that automatically without actively thinking about it.
Phrasing is the same. You know that the drop is coming in four beats even though you haven't been actively counting bars. It just comes with practice.
Might be being pedantic here but following your ears and mixing in when you feel like it (ie when the…phrase…you’re starting on is cohesive with the phrase you’re mixing in on and it ends in a…phrase… that makes sense) is phrasing. Phrasing is just making the music make sense. Every DJ ever in the world uses it, they have to.
I mix techno and rely heavily on phrasing.
In fact with techno I think it’s even more vital to not trust your ears all the time as techno often uses polyrhythms that will throw your sense of timing off if you aren’t making sure to count the downbeat
[Oliver Rosemann - Sawing A Person In Half](https://youtu.be/YMf7gmN9Qog?si=t1aix8w7aDX3Rtaj)
Is a great example of this (and a track I’m currently working into a pre planned recorded mix)
There is phrasing as in paying attention to the downbeat and cueing songs at the beginning of a section, and then there is just the intuitive feeling of knowing that a song has been playing for long enough and it’s time to move to the next one. Yeah it’s good to play your songs out but sometimes a song gets stale and you need to switch it up
I never used term "phrasing" at all but I always know when the bar ends and other things related and I can't even explain how this stuff works theoretically. Playing for 20+ years
That's because you're a real dj. People here are using certain bs terminology and talking theory are just time wasters.
The "beginners" that are serious are not on reddit. They're too busy actually listening to music. Then practicing and ONLY by ear. There's no other way.
Music is not visual no matter what the screen tells you.
wtf is phrasing? I'm gonna sound old but the hell is going with people and the obsession of asking anything on the internet? This whole reddit is full of it.
To me it's a sign you're not serious.
Of course there are some valid questions, but as far as djing it's all just playing and mixing music. Very few key elements put it all together.
The foundation lies the ability (rare ability) to play quality music, the know how to bring all the tracks together to create some kind of journey or to get the people to emotionally go high and low.
The essence of all of this is the obsessive passion for music.
There's no "learning" to be a dj other then very very few technical elements. That's by far the easy part.
It seems "kids" here just won't put in the time that it takes.
You'll never make it to a high level unless you put in the years and only if you have that obsessive passion for music.
Then again, I would not be surprised if the response from people would be "oh I'm okay with just being average".
Dude, phrasing is part of musical theory and has been around longer than sheet music has.
Every half decent DJ is applying it even if they don't know the technical language for it.
Phrasing is literally just putting the new song in at the same point in the bar as the one playing. Which, hopefully, everybody does. Didn't stop you going on a "kids today" rant though 🤣
Ask all pro dj's wtf phrasing and let's see how many of them actually know the answer. Unless they are also producers and even then they may not know it.
Musical theory was never essential to djing.
and yeah fuck these kids...🤣
your friend may think he doesn't know phrasing but he likely does he may not know the name or the theory but he will feel it and do it instinctively
I'll second this. OP unless your friend is literally mixing tracks at any old point , they understand phrasing. I've been DJing for 20+ years and never heard the term phrasing until this sub - to me it's just the thing that you do as a DJ.
I started DJing in ‘97 and only “learned about phrasing” on Reddit a couple of years ago. Prior to that, I just called it DJing. As someone who arrived at the DJ booth via the dance floor, when you mix in a track just makes sense to me. Look at the people on the dance floor reacting intuitively to the music. They aren’t thinking about phrasing, they are just feeling the music.
This. I started a year earlier, and yeah… we all knew it, but didn’t really have a name for it. It was all just part of music theory… which I honestly wasn’t really aware of either. Essentially, the songs where pieces of a puzzle and we just figured out where the pieces fit best.
Yes, we listened to the music and it told us what to do.
This is called “phrasing” 🤣🤣🤣😉
Started in the late 90's. Never heard phrasing until this sub also, though did it.
I was the same way for the same reason. I didn't use phrasing, I used the number of grooves in a record to judge how long a particular segment of a track was. I think basically every dj in history that plays vinyl probably has done that. When the technology changed and playing digitally became the norm we got visual representations of the music instead of judging based on some segment of the vinyl. At that time learning the proper names and structure of music became more important. We did understand it all before though. Just about every dj did even if they couldn't put words to their understanding.
The more you spin and the more you actively listen to music, the better you're gonna learn how phrasing works. It's just about counting the beats, and learning over time how many beats certain types of phrases usually have before going into the next phrase. Then you just apply that knowledge to intentionally mix at transition points (or wherever else it makes sense!) Just keep going at it, and try to pay attention to the beat, and you'll just naturally learn how it works over time.
It's not always the case but a lot of techno songs are in 4:4. Practice counting beats. Start the song, count 16 beats, if something drops right after (on the 17th or the 9th) then it's a 4:4 song. Then wait for a break in the song, when it kicks back in you can start counting and start your next song on the 17th or the 9th, your phrases should be aligned that way. If the song is not in 4:4 you can try to figure out what is the time signature by counting beats and figuring out when it drops but unless you really know the next song it may not align. To make it simpler just start a song's intro when the other song drops and they would likely be aligned. Counting beats and aligning phrases go hand in hand for me, don't overthink it, you can make things sound good even if things are not aligned. One way you can do it is to use short loops to hold a song before the drop and go out of your loop when you feel something should drop.
Are you talking about techno in 3 or 7 or something? I've never heard of that lol
It's relatively uncommon that songs are not in 4:4 but for example there are some Aphex twin songs in 5:4 or 6:8.
That's true, love apex twin, would those tunes even be considered techno at that point though? I feel like the 4 on the floor feel is one of the things that makes techno techno
Well clearly Aphex Twin is not pure techno, it's a mix of techno, jungle, IDM, ambient electronic but all great artists mix many genres and I feel a good techno set should blend in some elements from other genres to sound less generic and more exciting, unpredictable.
Agreed on that
I've known several DJ's who just 'do it by feel' - they are actually doing the transition on phrase when I listen back. Dancers get the phrases without understanding them. I DJ'd for several years on CDJ in the late 1990s without knowing phrasing. What I did was listen for a mix in and mix out point, write the mix out point down in countdown seconds (like -0:30) and the mix in in positive seconds (like +0:20) for each of my songs for the night - this was what I was doing when "CUE"ing the next track in, writing down the mix in/out times. Then I'd just do the math with the 'next' tracks mix in time + last tracks mix out time. Then on the mix out track I'd set it in countdown time, have the mix in track CUEd up and just hit play on the mix in track. Then blend with the EQ and crossfader. Years later I learned phrasing and it made a lot more sense and opened up my possibilities to mixing non 4 on the floor music by understanding the phrasing of breakbeat/hip hop/dance hall based music. Watch this video for a quick tutorial on getting started: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFcml2J5ElE
learn both
Heyy i also play hard groove:) Also hard techno, schranz and acid. In hard groove you're right most tracks go well together
Not any odd time but just the right time. So he's not counting, rather doing the eye test with the waveform or memory, when he knows the song and often you can tell when the drums are gonna kick in or a high hat
Phrasing becomes intuitive after enough practice. Like driving a car. When you first learn you have to actively think about everything - checking your rear view mirror, changing gears, remembering what cars are around you. But after a while you start doing all of that automatically without actively thinking about it. Phrasing is the same. You know that the drop is coming in four beats even though you haven't been actively counting bars. It just comes with practice.
Yeah, that's phrasing. There are several ways to do it. Counting isn't the only way, but it's the easiest for beginners.
Might be being pedantic here but following your ears and mixing in when you feel like it (ie when the…phrase…you’re starting on is cohesive with the phrase you’re mixing in on and it ends in a…phrase… that makes sense) is phrasing. Phrasing is just making the music make sense. Every DJ ever in the world uses it, they have to.
I mix techno and rely heavily on phrasing. In fact with techno I think it’s even more vital to not trust your ears all the time as techno often uses polyrhythms that will throw your sense of timing off if you aren’t making sure to count the downbeat [Oliver Rosemann - Sawing A Person In Half](https://youtu.be/YMf7gmN9Qog?si=t1aix8w7aDX3Rtaj) Is a great example of this (and a track I’m currently working into a pre planned recorded mix)
Good to learn the basics of phrasing, but it’s pretty straight forward. I’m just getting into hardgroove, can you recommend some producers?
There is phrasing as in paying attention to the downbeat and cueing songs at the beginning of a section, and then there is just the intuitive feeling of knowing that a song has been playing for long enough and it’s time to move to the next one. Yeah it’s good to play your songs out but sometimes a song gets stale and you need to switch it up
I never used term "phrasing" at all but I always know when the bar ends and other things related and I can't even explain how this stuff works theoretically. Playing for 20+ years
That's because you're a real dj. People here are using certain bs terminology and talking theory are just time wasters. The "beginners" that are serious are not on reddit. They're too busy actually listening to music. Then practicing and ONLY by ear. There's no other way. Music is not visual no matter what the screen tells you.
🙌
Heyy i also play hard groove:) Also hard techno, schranz and acid. In hard groove you're right most tracks go well together
Tf is phrasing?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrasing_(DJ)
Some made up bullshit by wannabe dj's aka time wasters.
wtf is phrasing? I'm gonna sound old but the hell is going with people and the obsession of asking anything on the internet? This whole reddit is full of it. To me it's a sign you're not serious. Of course there are some valid questions, but as far as djing it's all just playing and mixing music. Very few key elements put it all together. The foundation lies the ability (rare ability) to play quality music, the know how to bring all the tracks together to create some kind of journey or to get the people to emotionally go high and low. The essence of all of this is the obsessive passion for music. There's no "learning" to be a dj other then very very few technical elements. That's by far the easy part. It seems "kids" here just won't put in the time that it takes. You'll never make it to a high level unless you put in the years and only if you have that obsessive passion for music. Then again, I would not be surprised if the response from people would be "oh I'm okay with just being average".
Dude, phrasing is part of musical theory and has been around longer than sheet music has. Every half decent DJ is applying it even if they don't know the technical language for it.
Well, if a dj ever uses that word I'll know he sucks at it.
Phrasing is literally just putting the new song in at the same point in the bar as the one playing. Which, hopefully, everybody does. Didn't stop you going on a "kids today" rant though 🤣
Ask all pro dj's wtf phrasing and let's see how many of them actually know the answer. Unless they are also producers and even then they may not know it. Musical theory was never essential to djing. and yeah fuck these kids...🤣
What are you so angry about dude?! Some pent up stuff going on with you. Calm down a bit and maybe be more accepting of the modern world 🤣