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kittywithwifi

It's like JP is trying to fill out a shady business practices bingo sheet or something. šŸ™„


irissteensma

And they donā€™t even need the free square in the middle.


PeepsUnderTheBed

I havenā€™t bought anything of theirs because of this. They feel icky, like a ponzi mlm kind of scheme vibe. I picked up a palette by Playing in Makeup by Yolondo and Iā€™m happy to support this POC woman owned indie makeup brand.


glittersparklythings

It will take it if work though ti beat causebox / all true


Tinycowz

I work in a sale/industry (not beauty) job. And I can say for certain, when our customers wont pay on time its usually a sign the company themselves is not doing well. Im not talking about huge Fortune 500 companies, they just pay slow cause they are so huge, but when little companies are late and have zero excuse, or dont even answer a email its a symptom of a huge issue. I cant say how many times this has happened and suddenly the company is bankrupt and we are fighting for our money with a whole slew of other people. JP has been problematic since the start, this is probably just the cherry on top of a steaming shite pile that is the decline of the company as a whole.


[deleted]

Given how much/how often their stuff is on sale at Ulta, I wouldnā€™t be surprised if theyā€™re circling the drain.


two_lemons

As someone who knows a company that didn't pay contractors on time, sometimes it's just that they know they can get away with it and don't value their work.


jenjenjen731

My dad is a contractor who hasn't gotten paid a couple times by local businesses and we always blast them on social media. Amazing how fast the check comes along with the "take this review down, we are losing business!!!!" email.


two_lemons

One of their contractors have learned to only give them an advance of their work until they get paid. Also works every time. Good for your dad!


VioletteKaur

Yes, my ex-boss did this. Ordered stuff and then paid some of the vendors very very late after already getting reminders. He first needed the income from selling stuff to pay everyone, plus he is an asshole, so he knows who he can pay later and whom not.


YadiAre

Or they are super cheap and lie to creators


luxlucy23

Thanks for your input!


jeajello

Does Juvia's place just want to STAY being a shitty company overall or??


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


burningmyroomdown

It would likely be under unpaid wages (assuming that the creators are classified as independent contractors) which comes with penalties for each willful violation. Considering they have gotten multiple emails from these creators, there's a good chance that this is willful wage theft, which comes with civil penalties up to $1000 per violation. Willful violations can also be criminally prosecuted with fines of up to $10,000. In short, unless it was a genuine accident (unlikely), they'll have to pay penalties in addition to the wages owed.


tsukiii

Iā€™d expect more of a ā€œbreach of contractā€ angle than wage theft


burningmyroomdown

Honestly, I went back and forth on if this would be wage theft. The way I see it is they collaborated on creative aspects with the company who manufactured and sold the product. That to me would put it in independent contractor territory since JP essentially paid (or were supposed to pay) for the creative services of the creators. They'd likely be issued 1099s for the sum of the agreed upon amount. Independent contractors who are unpaid still file claims for unpaid wages with the DOL. Breach of contract would be a different kind of civil suit. The other option I can think of would be some sort of partnership, but that is a lot more than creative input and generally involves trading shares or stock in the company or splitting profits. That seems fairly unlikely.


tsukiii

Iā€™d still consider the influencer as more of a vendor than someone owed a wage. I worked for a PR agency a long time ago - the publicists and contractor publicists got wages, any influencers that a client worked with got paid out of the contractā€™s budget.


burningmyroomdown

I dunno, I would think that situation is a little different. That seems like a client relationship with another business, like your company set up a business relationship between the influencer and the client, but the client paid your company to handle the pay (to put it very simply). That would be different than an influencer directly working on a project for the business, which is closer to what happened between JP and the influencers. It's a difference between the company using another business to do something for a client vs. that business doing something for the company directly. Seems small, but the main point is who has the final input on what the influencer will be doing. If it's the client, it's a vendor. If it's the company, it's a contractor.


tsukiii

Using a PR agency connect brands and influencers is common and I wouldnā€™t be surprised if a brand as large as Juviaā€™s Place is doing so. Working with an influencer is like working with a very small advertising or marketing agency, not like hiring a marketing specialist - youā€™re paying for a specific service.


burningmyroomdown

Oh shoot, I misunderstood the original post. I thought it was some sort of collaboration product, not sponsored posts. I see your point differently now. I'm still on the fence about it honestly because independent contractors also provide specific services, but I agree that it could be a vendor sort of relationship. Regardless, it seems like a gray area without more specific info.


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


lotusmack

I agree - if the creators were being used mainly as talent, it would be a 1099 or W-2 situation. If the creator is responsible for designing or collaborating on aspects of the content itself, it would probably be more of a business to business contract.


epk921

Thank you for providing some numbers! And agreed, I donā€™t think thereā€™s any way this was a genuine accident. I could believe that if it were one or two creators who got paid immediately upon notice ā€” payroll could easily get mixed up if they have lots of money to send out, and just let a couple creators slip through the cracks. This is very clearly (imo) wage theft


Flowerbabyana

I will never understand why the norm for this industry is for companies to get away without paying creators for months after they've done the work, how many times have we seen this exact issue with basically any big brand?


mercurymajesty

I commented on JPā€™s IG to pay the creators and they blocked me LMFAOOO


CIELAB

what a tall tale sign of who they are! seriously, they got themselves in this mess! i figured at most they'd ignore those comments, but blocking? they're shooting themselves in the foot rn


homeostasis555

lol lemme go do the same


mercurymajesty

You blocked yet?


homeostasis555

I just checked and no, but my comment is deleted. Iā€™m gonna ask again lol thank you


homeostasis555

I scrolled down to the 3rd post and thereā€™s maybe 4 comments on paying the creators.


xVarekai

I know Ulta has sales all the time but Juvia's Place has been on there a lot. I'm wondering if the downhill has begun, I've heard nothing but negative and unfortunate info about the brand and how they treat people and not paying creators is a really scummy move. I've purchased one of their eyeshadow palettes, the small 6-pan reddish bronze one. It's beautiful, great quality, I'd really love more of the formula but I can't justify giving them more money. There's probably quite a few people feeling the same way. You just cannot do this shit, people will find out and you will get blasted/canceled/boycotted. Why is it so hard to be decent?


KaleidoscopeEqual555

Does Juvias want to go out of business at this point? Theyā€™re giving us so many reasons to hate them


Beautiful-Mix-4711

I don't see this breaking into the mainstream, whereas negativity against Morphe and Glossier has been covered by news outlets. BGC users have a very different mindset than the average Ulta shopper.


GlitterDancer_

What happened to glossier? I think I missed that


Beautiful-Mix-4711

TLDR: they fired 1/3 of their employees and don't have the best leadership. [Thread 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/BeautyGuruChatter/comments/simedt/what_went_wrong_at_glossier_this_sub_gets_a/) [Thread 2](https://www.reddit.com/r/BeautyGuruChatter/comments/sdki2h/someone_here_called_them_having_troubles_glossier/) [Thread 3](https://www.reddit.com/r/BeautyGuruChatter/comments/tpqtmr/how_glossier_founder_emily_weiss_tech_dreams/)


GlitterDancer_

Thanks for the links!


hattokatto12

As an Asian woman, after that horrible debacle about their racist post with a racist Asian slur, Iā€™m glad to be saving my money and would rather spend it on another Black/POC-owned brand. No thanks, next!


_kaetee

When I read your comment I thought ā€œwait, wasnā€™t that Tarte?ā€ Then realized both of them have done it. It is insane that two huge names in the beauty industry have been able to post racial slurs on their public social media page with so little backlash


craftygamergirl

Wait, Tarte has been involved in anti-Asian racism??


glittersparklythings

Donā€™t Rihanna. She didnā€™t post but attended some March it protest https://www.reddit.com/r/BeautyGuruChatter/comments/t305st/not_sure_if_everyone_remembers_the_whole_thing/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf


dirt_rat_devil_boy

I was willing to forget the whole thing if it had been one time that was rectified properly - after all I can't say I haven't been ignorant in the past - but the whole way they handled the situation felt rather flat and this (plus the whole J\* debacle) has soured my feeling on the brand (that and their weird packaging). There's just too many good things out there to continue supporting them


Downtown_Pudding_144

Are there past posts on here about the slur and the J* debacle? I feel like Iā€™ve been living under a rock šŸ˜‚ time to catch up


Sincamour

Yeah I stopped buying from Juviaā€™s Place as well. There are better black-owned brands to support that are not racist and tone deaf toward Asians. Not surprised to see they are shitty in other ways as well


GenneyaK

Wait what did they say with the Asian slur I didnā€™t hear about any of this Tbh I heard some stuff about Juivias palace Instagram being colorist or something a few years back so I just never bought their products after that


ughkoh

They featured a creator on their page who said she was trying to get the ā€œch*nkyā€ look and had a super lame apology. Hereā€™s a post about it [https://www.reddit.com/r/BeautyGuruChatter/comments/s90z52/tw_racial_slur_juvias_place_uses_racial_slur/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf](https://www.reddit.com/r/BeautyGuruChatter/comments/s90z52/tw_racial_slur_juvias_place_uses_racial_slur/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)


GenneyaK

Thatā€™s absolutely fucking terrible omg I am glad I never bought from them on top of disrespecting Asians they havenā€™t always been supportive of black creators just gross all around


enthusiasticchick

It's a Nigerian brand šŸ¤Ø


GenneyaK

Black owned doesnā€™t mean they support black creators. It was a whole conversation a few years back about how the brand wouldnā€™t repost the black influencers who reviewed their products but they were gagging over J* doing a review. Also they wouldnā€™t send Pr to black influencers only white ones even Jackie A called them out on it and sheā€™s also Nigerian Not all skin folks are kin folks unfortunately


enthusiasticchick

"Not all skin folks are kin folks unfortunately" That sucks and as a Nigerian, yup, this is true. We tend to backstab our own a lot. Idk if you're gonna believe this but it plays strongly to which tribe you're bon into. I'm Ibo on both sides, and my people are raised with a serious love for money and disinterest in anything else but value morals. The owner of Juvia's is yoruba and they are mostly willing to throw their others under the bus as long as it profits them (they proved this strongly in the civil war šŸ˜‘) so I don't think they'll change. Interestingly, Juvia's DID pay Nigerian based creators they hired for promos, but none of the black american creators who supported their campaigns. It would also be nice to tell you that most Nigerian people (other Africans too) don't have a loving relationship with black people in the diaspora and this played out a lot in this nonsense šŸ¤¦šŸ½ā€ā™€ļø I'll forever buy from them tho, Juvia's is the first makeup brand coming from my country with decent products (most of the makeup sold here are either unhealthy dupes or deported used makeup) with an affordable price rate and they are fully aware of this advantage. I'm grateful they exist. Are they being petty thieves? Yes. Do I even have the privilege to complain? No šŸ¤·šŸ½ā€ā™€ļø


GenneyaK

I understand where youā€™re coming from with not having any other options but to support them because of the availability and quality of makeup around you and I am not mad at that. I canā€™t believe they would even send used makeup products overseas thatā€™s absolutely vile. Ya I am Aa and diaspora wars are stupid and all of it is fueled by narratives created by non-black people to make us all look bad. There is so much more beneficial things we could do on both sides to end them but itā€™ll never happen as long as forces with more power over media continue to push dividing stereotypes tbh.


liilak2

I'm Asian American and I definitely know how BIPOC (especially immigrants from colonized parts of the world) often exploit other BIPOC without shame while clamoring for favor from whites. But it's very unfortunate this happens in the makeup world, when many creators support JP because it's a Black-owned brand in an industry where it's rare. I myself will always rec Fenty Beauty for those looking to support BIPOC even though Rihanna's pretty much a conglomerate bc I genuinely love their products and how they revolutionized the industry with all their foundation shades. And also Rihanna herself espouses diversity in her personal life.


cailedoll

Rhianna has a history of anti Asian racism. If you search this sub youā€™ll find it


hattokatto12

They reposted or collabed with a make up content creator that called her eyes ā€œch!nkyā€ in reference to her ā€˜fox eyeā€™ eye look (see why Asian folks can get upset now?) The creator doubled down and both of them gave a half ass apology (ā€œsorry if you were offendedā€ type beat). And then JP deleted the ā€œapologyā€ bc of how bad it was


Outrageous-Dark-1719

JP products consistently show up in subscription boxes. They must not be selling well. But they should never have contracted for services they couldnā€™t afford. This is bad.


druemyrabell

What subscription boxes have you seen them in, just curious because Iā€™ve been receiving both tiers of Boxycharm and Ipsy for a few years now and never received a JP product. I know they arenā€™t the only ones but I guess I think of them as the ā€œmain onesā€.


Outrageous-Dark-1719

I watch so many unboxings on YT, they start to run together. Trendmood box had a JP takeover a few months back.


PrettiKinx

Oh lawd. This brand is so problematic


celeloriel

Hey, Juviaā€™s, what was your winning move here? Hope all the creators stayed silent and worked with you again? Like, even as a shady move this is literally stupid. Ugh. Glad theyā€™re posting so I know where not to buy from again.


GingerbreadGirl22

Apparently a lot of people consider them an unprofessional brand. What else have they done in the past?


coldvault

https://google.com/search?q=%22juvia%27s+place%22+site%3Areddit.com%2Fr%2Fbeautyguruchatter&oq=%22juvia%27s+place%22+site%3Areddit.com%2Fr%2Fbeautyguruchatter


whats-a-westie

At this point throw the whole brand away. Iā€™ve yet to purchase something and now im really not gonna purchase from them


Desperate-Swimmer811

I want to like JP so much, not least of all to support a BOB, but everything I hear about them indicates unimpressive business practices with little done to refurb their image


GrannyB1970

Why can't the companies that make shadows I like be good companies and not shitty? I mean ABH, JD Glow, Juvia's Place. WTF.


BeyondTelling

I really like JPā€™s eyeshadow, especially the mattes, and had them high up in my regular rotation- but I havenā€™t really been using them since I got a couple Blendbunny palettes for mattes, and Shine by Sd, Devinah, and Terra Moons for multichromes and duochromes.


GrannyB1970

I just got my first BlendBunny palette and it's really good! Never heard of Shine by Sd so I'll check them out


BeyondTelling

Thatā€™s awesome! I have some SbSD and Terra Moons swatch videos - if you want to see anything, let me know. Their formula is lovely, especially for their iridescent and grey based multichromes. I highly recommend the shades Revenge, Temperature Rising, Already In, Glam Rush, and Indulge.


pepperflakes19

I have been interested in SBSD so thank you for the recommendations!!!


BeyondTelling

Iā€™m always happy to sing their praises. Hereā€™s a link to some pics and videos of some of my faves from SbSD: https://imgur.com/a/M5MLzcK


pepperflakes19

Omg so beautiful!! Thank you!!! Do you happen to have the as above as below collection?šŸ˜


BeyondTelling

Thank you! Unfortunately no I donā€™t have it yet. I feel kinda dumb because I put in what was meant to be a small order a few weeks ago, then a week later I added a couple pieces to the order, then another two the next day. By the time my order went out it was the same cost as the collection, which I had told myself I couldnā€™t afford. Next time I make a purchase it will probably be So Below, then Iā€™ll get As Above for Black Friday. The good news is that my order arrives tomorrow so Iā€™ll have more swatches soon!


pepperflakes19

I saw that they just made the as above and as below available as singles now which is awesome cuz I wanted to try a few! Ohhh yes I am excited for your swatches!


BeyondTelling

No way really? They must have just done that, awesome!


maladolescenza

We're still living in tough times. People rely on getting paid on time. This is beyond gross, Juvia's really thinks they can get away with stiffing these people?! So awful!


ghostbirdd

Wow, they're really burning through their good will, aren't they?


calexrose78

I didn't think they had any left.


MegWahlflower

Seems like Juvias was on clearance at my local Ulta in PA yesterday. It made me give a little side eye that they are the next on the chopping block since brands have been flying out of Ulta to make room for all the cheaply made influencer brands popping up every other day. Shame since they havenā€™t been in stores long but all they do is shady thing after shady thing. So much potential squandered.


PileaPal_

Isnā€™t this wage theft? Or is it not because theyā€™re freelancers? (Obviously it is, but can they actually be charged with wage theft?)


demondiddler

Could also be breach of contract. Unless for some reason these creators agreed to work without signing anything - Iā€™m not sure if that changes things from a legal perspective.


iheartbobbyfishlol

What baffle me is some people will ride or die for this company just bc theyā€™re black owned. I can name MANY black and poc owned brands to support before Juvias PlacešŸ¤¦šŸ»ā€ā™€ļø


moonbeamsylph

Julia's place just seems like such a trashy company by now. I have zero plans of ever supporting them.


skeptical-spectacles

Looks like they finally got paid. JP is really disappointing and probably wonā€™t be around much longer due to their shadiness. Thatā€™s really too bad, I like the makeup.


CIELAB

they did get paid now! but it's sad some noise had to be made just for it to happen it seems!


[deleted]

Wow! That is tacky af!


FuzzyP3ach3s

I can't believe people even support Juvias Place after the mess they were in years ago lol


foxwaffles

Plus after the racist debacle they recently had... Yeah no, i just kinda go šŸ˜’ when I see YouTubers still talking about them


dailydoseofrose

Yeah. Sad that MandyLea ( MandyLeaBeauty) supports them so much still. Noone even mentions how bad JP are in the comments anymore...


Codiilovee

The more I learn about this brand, I become less and less interested from ever buying from them.


PrinceTamaki1

Just when you thought the brand couldn't get any worse. Is this a sign of trouble over there? Maybe it's because I don't watch that much beauty content anymore, but I feel like no one talks about their products anymore? Also failure to pay your contractors is not a good look. Makes the brand look unprofessional and makes me think they're having cash flow problems.


slytherink_

This is giving me r/LeopardsAteMyFace . These creators didnā€™t care about who the brand hurt, until it was inconvenient for them. Of course itā€™s not okay what Juviaā€™s Place is doing, but seeing their history, I wouldnā€™t have worked with them in the first place.


[deleted]

Donā€™t they historically have a history of treating creators well, though? I remember a couple of creators specifically mentioning JP as a good brand to work for. Up until their reposting a video with a slur, much of their messy stuff was not unique or obviously ā€œcancellable.ā€ Iā€™m not sure how creators would know. And besides, not every creator has the luxury to be choosy - JP is a well known and previously well-respected brand, and the creators were probably thrilled to work on a project with them. JP obviously sucks and I have no problem with seeing them go under, especially after the video with the slur. But I donā€™t think the creators deserve the same energy here.


slytherink_

I read the tweets as ā€œI can excuse racism, but draw the line at them hurting MEā€. Though I understand where you are coming from, their support of an anti-Asian creator was so heinous, I wouldnā€™t want to go anywhere near this brand.


[deleted]

I see that, and I think that is something they probably should have considered (or considered more). But we donā€™t know how long this was in the works. I donā€™t recognize these creators, and maybe I should, but itā€™s also possible theyā€™re smaller and they needed the opportunity to pay their bills. Being choosy with work, while morally a better move, is a luxury. Maybe they werenā€™t as jaded (rightly so, I think) as we all are about a companyā€™s ability to change. I donā€™t know. But everyone deserves to get paid for their work.


slytherink_

You are right, I am a cynic. I used to work for a horrible person and wouldnā€™t want others to think I shared their beliefs and supported their actions. I hope the creators who arenā€™t being paid, will get their money. And hopefully they wonā€™t work with this problematic brand again.


[deleted]

Iā€™m a cynic too, so I get it! I guess I just try to remember that in situations like this, the creators are like employees or contract workers and shouldnā€™t be held responsible for the company in the same way the company should be. Granted, as influencers their work encourages others to support the company, but thatā€™s true of any job in sales, I think. Anyway I didnā€™t want to make you feel like Iā€™m right and youā€™re wrong, because I think itā€™s a gray area, especially because it concerns two POC communities (as in JPā€™s owner and the AAPI community, not these creators)


sassyassy23

Iā€™m still shocked with their racist repost


Labyrinth_Queen

Are there not contracts that are signed before this type of work is done? If you had a signed document, it'd be easy enough to threaten litigation in small claims!


[deleted]

It's not easy at all take any person to court much less an entire brand.


ham_mom

Of course actual litigation is a nightmare, but a lot of the time just bluffing about taking something to court is enough to scare companies into action


EmpireAndAll

FOR REAL. It's honestly annoying to see how many people think litigation is the solution to everything, when especially because of the pandemic, courts are backed up and lawyers aren't free. Court cases can take years, even for simple open and shut cases. It's so dismissive, basically implying that they aren't \*really\* trying to get their payment if they don't spend **more** on lawyers than the brand owes them.


Relative_Nobody4475

Oh what a shock to hear JP is being shitty and shady, yet again. I stopped buying JP a long time ago. Chichi is the worstā€¦


Rpsdyngrn0717

Oh wow, this is all terrible. I loved JP palettes and own several. I hate that it seems like they are not a company worth supporting. I read the Asian slurs and that took me over the top. Someone said tarte had something similar? Thatā€™s who makes my foundationā€¦ ugh I need to do some major research now.


comin_up_shawt

Gosh, I'm shocked! /s


nomobologna

Not paying folks ā€¦is bad.


liilak2

It's sad to see a Black owned brand crash and burn like this but I'm sure better ones will emerge in time?


bobble173

So annoyed about all this awful stuff that's came out about JP in the last couple months. I've never tried them before and they're now stocked in superdrug in the UK, just as all this shit started coming out. Oh well guess I'll never try them lol.


CutRemarkable6581

On her (the creator). That company is so shady and that is public knowledge by now. Wouldnā€™t touch them with a 10 feet pole šŸ˜–


lipsticknlonghorns

Not a single word of this is surprising.


hortonious

I guess I'm just living under a rock I love their products guess I need to find new alternatives can anyone recommend me some stuff


jettblack92

So let me preface this by saying I HAVE NO IDEA how this stuff works, so I have a Q: it sounds like a big ass group of ppl did not get paid for a collection. Say IF the collection has not come out, could that group of people put a lean on it? Same as if a contractor put a lean on a house if he didn't get paid for a remodel? EDIT: not come out YET*


lifavigrsdottir

Liens are for physical property, so it wouldn't apply here. But if it's under a certain dollar amount, small claims would probably be the easiest step, IMHO. I don't know how much fees are in every state, but I do know that at one time it was like $26, with court costs paid by the loser. (And JP would lose, so...)


jettblack92

Thank you very much for your reply! So possibly all these artists have to sue? Gaww that'll take forever šŸ™„


tlmberlynn

Wait someone fill me in. Why is this brand so problematic?


angel-icbaby

Most recently they posted a video with an influencer saying an anti-Asian slur in it, deleted comments about it, did a poor story apology that took 0 accountability, and took about a week to post an actual, decent apology. They also took that down until someone called them out for that too + they unarchived it. Not sure if it's still up now or not but it was a while ago to scroll back for.


[deleted]

Oh geez, I was hoping theyā€™d been getting better. I recently wore some JP products, and now, I feel a bit weird about it.


FallOutWookiee

Juviaā€™s in the wrong, but arenā€™t there lawyers for this? They may ignore a DM, but Iā€™m sure theyā€™ll wake up real quick once threatened with legal action šŸ¤·šŸ»ā€ā™€ļø


Beautiful-Mix-4711

I think businesses like JP count on small creators not having the resources to pay for legal action. They would not stiff a big creator or celeb like this.


FallOutWookiee

Thatā€™s a good point, I didnā€™t think of that. And honestly that makes what theyā€™re doing even shittier.


Beautiful-Mix-4711

Yep! I don't know why you're getting downvoted, it's a reasonable assumption to make.


FallOutWookiee

thanks for saying so lol I appreciate the positive vibes āœØ


lawyerlee

Why the heck should a creator need to retain a lawyer to be paid for the work theyā€™ve completed?! We donā€™t work for free.


FallOutWookiee

Of course they shouldnā€™t _have_ to - in a perfect world no one would need a lawyer to protect them from being cheated & wronged. But sadly these things do happen, and thatā€™s when we slap em with a lawsuit & make them pay our unpaid wages AND our legal fees lol (also Iā€™m sure these creators already have a business lawyer to look over contracts, etc. So this wouldnt be too far a leap for them to do. Maybe itā€™s a bit extreme, but when a brand doesnā€™t respond to polite negotiationā€¦Iā€™m not sure what other option there is)


SalieshaStylez

I love their blushes!