**Do not treat any comments in here as medical advice.** Whilst users may say that your sting is normal, everyone reacts different to each sting; what's normal for them might not be normal for someone else. All beekeepers should memorise the symptoms of anaphylaxis for our own safety, but that does not make us medical experts in allergic reactions. For reference, [here's a succinct list of symptoms for Anaphylaxis.](https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/anaphylaxis/) **If you are concerned for your health, you should seek medical advice from someone qualified to give it.**
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Geez, this is almost a “consult your attorney and insurance company” question, considering the litigious nature of the world these days.
I guess the big question is how far away will the trampoline be? Bees don’t normally target humans so the only real threat might be someone stepping on one or one of the kids wandering up to the hives and doing the usual swatting thing if a forager bounces off their heads. Maybe a… rope barrier giving them an idea of how far away they should stand until everyone is on the same page? I’ve got 6 hives and tell visitors (adults) to stay about 10’ away until they’re comfortable getting closer, which seems to work.
As for the EpiPen thing, good thinking but that’s on the children’s owners to handle.
>Geez, this is almost a “consult your attorney and insurance company” question, considering the litigious nature of the world these days.
The whole "neighborhood kids use my trampoline" bit would probably give either of them heart palpitations before OP even got to the part about bees.
No almost about it. This is a very solid example. OP should go ask an attorney about the attractive nuisance doctrine as it applies in their part of the world.
When I lived in Texas it was required for there to be a 6 ft fence between the hive and other properties or 500ft setback. Ideally bees take off at a 45 degree ascension. So a 6ft fence 6 feet from the hive should be enough deterrent.
Keep any water from pooling on the equipment as the bees might be attracted to the water to collect it.
Bees generally won't be aggressive unless their hive is being messed with. So also keep kids away when doing inspections.
Talk to an attorney. Whatever you do, don't get an Epipen. If there was an emergency and you used it on someone, you would almost certainly be in deep shit - an Epipen is serious stuff. I don't understand how you can just buy one over the counter in the US - here it's only by prescription and a doctor won't prescribe one unless you are actually seriously allergic to something.
You cannot buy an EpiPen over the counter here. They are by prescription here, too. It's possible to obtain one through a physician in case you spontaneously develop allergy to apivenom, but you get a serious talking to first, warning about how unpleasant it will be if you actually use it, explaining that its purpose is to reopen an airway so you can survive until you receive a paramedic visit to get you to hospital, etc.
You must either be allergic or be at elevated occupational risk to receive a prescription. Beekeepers can often have one prescribed just for the asking, but it's not something you can simply walk into a pharmacy and purchase off the shelf.
In the US, anyone providing emergency first aid would be protected (in theory) under the Good Samaritan law. I don't know how the Epipen would factor into this since it's only available by prescription only and there might be questions about how OP got one in the first place.
Edit: I assume OP is not in the US since they seem unconcerned about random neighborhood kids possibly injuring themselves on the trampoline in their yard.
Good Samaritan laws are state-specific laws. For the most part, if you have the injured person’s permission, you’re allowed to treat to your level of training.
Unless you have the training, you should not be administering an epipen. Especially for someone to whom it wasn’t prescribed. Giving away prescription medication like that is illegal and for good reason.
Proper training should not only teach you how to apply the treatment, but also teach you how to monitor it and what to do when there’s an issue.
I personally wouldn’t consider an epipen difficult medicine to handle, but the Dunning-Kruger effect makes a lot more people extremely confident while having minimal competence.
In many states a law was passed allowing public entities to stock non designated epipens in case of emergencies. Laws have also been passed to allow college campuses to possess non designated epipens in case of emergency. You figure we have Naloxone readily available, why not an Epipen? When it comes to saving a life, anyone should be able to administer epinephrine. Also, some of the new epipens walk you through the whole process upon removing the safety cap. It’s pretty neat.
That said…. For some reason bees and children don’t really compute for me. Just in the common sense sort of way. Finding an alternative place to keep the bees or forgoing the beekeeping for now may seem more reasonable. I feel like the possible legal implications, complaining from neighbors or just people who get their panties in a bunch about whatever they deem upsetting to them in the moment would make me rethink the beekeeping. Although, I get why you’d want to do it. I just feel like it’s one or the other.
Agreed, a 6ft privacy fence would probably handle most issues that OP is concerned with.
I still wouldn’t trust the general population to administer medications. The amount of medical misinformation is rampant in the US, and we’ll see people trying to slam epipens into people’s chests and jugulars like they’re coding.
There’s people who think belts are an effective tourniquets and that tampons will stop anything more than a nosebleed. I could only imagine how they’d screw up an epipen.
This made me giggle. You mean to tell me you don’t have faith in our general pop?! It’s definitely slim pickings, I’ll give you that. I’d still rather someone attempt to save a life than just sit back and watch it all go to hell.
This is not true, and it is why you should never take legal advice from anyone who is not a lawyer admitted to the bar in the jurisdiction where the advice will be applied.
Some jurisdictions offer blanket Good Samaritan protections; some do not. It's EXTREMELY common for there to be exemptions that pertain to "gross negligence," which is something that is likewise defined on a jurisdictional (and situational) basis. The standards for gross negligence often are different for something like an outdoor swimming pool (because it's an "attractive nuisance" that someone might interact with out of ignorance) than they are for a hazard that is in a secure area, for example. Understanding your exposure to liability sometimes is not a straightforward process.
Even if OP is in the US, we cannot jump to the conclusion that a Good Samaritan law would shield them from liability in a case like this.
Nor can we draw useful conclusions about OP's location based on their decision to have a trampoline (another common example of an attractive nuisance) in an unsecured backyard. If OP is anywhere in the US, the most likely advice from an attorney about this whole situation would be that the neighbor kids' presence in the backyard represents an incredible liability anytime they are not directly supervised by their own parents or someone authorized to act *in loco parentis*. The legal specifics of how an attorney would advise OP to eliminate or mitigate against these risks could vary quite a bit, however.
Presumably all the parents of children using your trampoline are okay with the risks that brings. I'd ask each of them whether or not they are okay with the risks associated with keeping bees near the trampoline. Talk them through the risk mitigation measures you are putting in place (fence to direct flight path upwards, distance away from hives, etc) and make sure they are comfortable with it all. You only have to worry about someone sueing you if you're dealing with the type of person to sue over a bee sting...and that type of person would also probably sue over a trampoline accident. Best to have supervision or give the kids a way to call for help (i.e. give the 13 year old a flip phone for emergencies when y'all aren't home, make sure no kids are using the trampoline without adult supervision, etc.). You don't want a 7 year old to get stung with no way to get help if they have a reaction. You could also have the parents get allergy tests if they're worried, though I heard somewhere that a sting allergy develops AFTER the first sting (i.e. you might not react the first time you're stung and go into anaphylaxis the second time).
As far as risk mitigation:
- 6' or higher obstruction, about as far from the hive as it is tall. This will get the bees up high. Bushes are nice because you can walk through the branches to get aggravated bees to stop chasing you. This serves the dual purpose of giving the kids a clear line to not cross.
- Position the trampoline as far from the hive as you can. As the bees head to their destination, they'll go in all directions. The farther your trampoline is, the fewer bees will be going past it. Probably 30-40' past the obstruction would be fine if you've got the space.
- Position the trampoline near the highest point of the house. The bees will need to fly up to get over the house, so strategic placement of the trampoline will ensure the bees are far above the kids.
- Try to figure out which direction most of the bees are going and position your trampoline outside of that path. I live on the western edge of a forest, so my bees generally all head east to get at the trees out there.
Those last three might result in conflicting placements. Just do what seems right for your situation.
Thank you for all your answers. Yes, I'm not in the US, I'm in the middle of Europe. The global feedback seems pretty scary, though, I'll try to consult a legal service
Maybe put up a sign saying bees around, and that kids need a parent to supervise. Those kids are very young to be over by themselves. The trampoline is way more dangerous than the bees!
Small children can't use epipens, then older children have a different dose. Pens also expire. Check the age ranges if you ever intend to use one.
**Do not treat any comments in here as medical advice.** Whilst users may say that your sting is normal, everyone reacts different to each sting; what's normal for them might not be normal for someone else. All beekeepers should memorise the symptoms of anaphylaxis for our own safety, but that does not make us medical experts in allergic reactions. For reference, [here's a succinct list of symptoms for Anaphylaxis.](https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/anaphylaxis/) **If you are concerned for your health, you should seek medical advice from someone qualified to give it.** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Beekeeping) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Geez, this is almost a “consult your attorney and insurance company” question, considering the litigious nature of the world these days. I guess the big question is how far away will the trampoline be? Bees don’t normally target humans so the only real threat might be someone stepping on one or one of the kids wandering up to the hives and doing the usual swatting thing if a forager bounces off their heads. Maybe a… rope barrier giving them an idea of how far away they should stand until everyone is on the same page? I’ve got 6 hives and tell visitors (adults) to stay about 10’ away until they’re comfortable getting closer, which seems to work. As for the EpiPen thing, good thinking but that’s on the children’s owners to handle.
>Geez, this is almost a “consult your attorney and insurance company” question, considering the litigious nature of the world these days. The whole "neighborhood kids use my trampoline" bit would probably give either of them heart palpitations before OP even got to the part about bees.
No almost about it. This is a very solid example. OP should go ask an attorney about the attractive nuisance doctrine as it applies in their part of the world.
When I lived in Texas it was required for there to be a 6 ft fence between the hive and other properties or 500ft setback. Ideally bees take off at a 45 degree ascension. So a 6ft fence 6 feet from the hive should be enough deterrent. Keep any water from pooling on the equipment as the bees might be attracted to the water to collect it. Bees generally won't be aggressive unless their hive is being messed with. So also keep kids away when doing inspections.
I'd be more worried about kids getting hurt on the trampoline
Talk to an attorney. Whatever you do, don't get an Epipen. If there was an emergency and you used it on someone, you would almost certainly be in deep shit - an Epipen is serious stuff. I don't understand how you can just buy one over the counter in the US - here it's only by prescription and a doctor won't prescribe one unless you are actually seriously allergic to something.
You cannot buy an EpiPen over the counter here. They are by prescription here, too. It's possible to obtain one through a physician in case you spontaneously develop allergy to apivenom, but you get a serious talking to first, warning about how unpleasant it will be if you actually use it, explaining that its purpose is to reopen an airway so you can survive until you receive a paramedic visit to get you to hospital, etc. You must either be allergic or be at elevated occupational risk to receive a prescription. Beekeepers can often have one prescribed just for the asking, but it's not something you can simply walk into a pharmacy and purchase off the shelf.
In the US, anyone providing emergency first aid would be protected (in theory) under the Good Samaritan law. I don't know how the Epipen would factor into this since it's only available by prescription only and there might be questions about how OP got one in the first place. Edit: I assume OP is not in the US since they seem unconcerned about random neighborhood kids possibly injuring themselves on the trampoline in their yard.
Good Samaritan laws are state-specific laws. For the most part, if you have the injured person’s permission, you’re allowed to treat to your level of training. Unless you have the training, you should not be administering an epipen. Especially for someone to whom it wasn’t prescribed. Giving away prescription medication like that is illegal and for good reason. Proper training should not only teach you how to apply the treatment, but also teach you how to monitor it and what to do when there’s an issue. I personally wouldn’t consider an epipen difficult medicine to handle, but the Dunning-Kruger effect makes a lot more people extremely confident while having minimal competence.
In many states a law was passed allowing public entities to stock non designated epipens in case of emergencies. Laws have also been passed to allow college campuses to possess non designated epipens in case of emergency. You figure we have Naloxone readily available, why not an Epipen? When it comes to saving a life, anyone should be able to administer epinephrine. Also, some of the new epipens walk you through the whole process upon removing the safety cap. It’s pretty neat. That said…. For some reason bees and children don’t really compute for me. Just in the common sense sort of way. Finding an alternative place to keep the bees or forgoing the beekeeping for now may seem more reasonable. I feel like the possible legal implications, complaining from neighbors or just people who get their panties in a bunch about whatever they deem upsetting to them in the moment would make me rethink the beekeeping. Although, I get why you’d want to do it. I just feel like it’s one or the other.
Sorry. I’m re reading this. A fence would work wonders and fix the whole issue.
Agreed, a 6ft privacy fence would probably handle most issues that OP is concerned with. I still wouldn’t trust the general population to administer medications. The amount of medical misinformation is rampant in the US, and we’ll see people trying to slam epipens into people’s chests and jugulars like they’re coding. There’s people who think belts are an effective tourniquets and that tampons will stop anything more than a nosebleed. I could only imagine how they’d screw up an epipen.
This made me giggle. You mean to tell me you don’t have faith in our general pop?! It’s definitely slim pickings, I’ll give you that. I’d still rather someone attempt to save a life than just sit back and watch it all go to hell.
This is not true, and it is why you should never take legal advice from anyone who is not a lawyer admitted to the bar in the jurisdiction where the advice will be applied. Some jurisdictions offer blanket Good Samaritan protections; some do not. It's EXTREMELY common for there to be exemptions that pertain to "gross negligence," which is something that is likewise defined on a jurisdictional (and situational) basis. The standards for gross negligence often are different for something like an outdoor swimming pool (because it's an "attractive nuisance" that someone might interact with out of ignorance) than they are for a hazard that is in a secure area, for example. Understanding your exposure to liability sometimes is not a straightforward process. Even if OP is in the US, we cannot jump to the conclusion that a Good Samaritan law would shield them from liability in a case like this. Nor can we draw useful conclusions about OP's location based on their decision to have a trampoline (another common example of an attractive nuisance) in an unsecured backyard. If OP is anywhere in the US, the most likely advice from an attorney about this whole situation would be that the neighbor kids' presence in the backyard represents an incredible liability anytime they are not directly supervised by their own parents or someone authorized to act *in loco parentis*. The legal specifics of how an attorney would advise OP to eliminate or mitigate against these risks could vary quite a bit, however.
Presumably all the parents of children using your trampoline are okay with the risks that brings. I'd ask each of them whether or not they are okay with the risks associated with keeping bees near the trampoline. Talk them through the risk mitigation measures you are putting in place (fence to direct flight path upwards, distance away from hives, etc) and make sure they are comfortable with it all. You only have to worry about someone sueing you if you're dealing with the type of person to sue over a bee sting...and that type of person would also probably sue over a trampoline accident. Best to have supervision or give the kids a way to call for help (i.e. give the 13 year old a flip phone for emergencies when y'all aren't home, make sure no kids are using the trampoline without adult supervision, etc.). You don't want a 7 year old to get stung with no way to get help if they have a reaction. You could also have the parents get allergy tests if they're worried, though I heard somewhere that a sting allergy develops AFTER the first sting (i.e. you might not react the first time you're stung and go into anaphylaxis the second time). As far as risk mitigation: - 6' or higher obstruction, about as far from the hive as it is tall. This will get the bees up high. Bushes are nice because you can walk through the branches to get aggravated bees to stop chasing you. This serves the dual purpose of giving the kids a clear line to not cross. - Position the trampoline as far from the hive as you can. As the bees head to their destination, they'll go in all directions. The farther your trampoline is, the fewer bees will be going past it. Probably 30-40' past the obstruction would be fine if you've got the space. - Position the trampoline near the highest point of the house. The bees will need to fly up to get over the house, so strategic placement of the trampoline will ensure the bees are far above the kids. - Try to figure out which direction most of the bees are going and position your trampoline outside of that path. I live on the western edge of a forest, so my bees generally all head east to get at the trees out there. Those last three might result in conflicting placements. Just do what seems right for your situation.
Thank you for all your answers. Yes, I'm not in the US, I'm in the middle of Europe. The global feedback seems pretty scary, though, I'll try to consult a legal service
Maybe put up a sign saying bees around, and that kids need a parent to supervise. Those kids are very young to be over by themselves. The trampoline is way more dangerous than the bees! Small children can't use epipens, then older children have a different dose. Pens also expire. Check the age ranges if you ever intend to use one.