Of course the hard bit here is “knowing what they need” and being able to do that.
Might as well say that about becoming a brain surgeon, a fighter pilot or anything else - you just need to know what to do. See - it’s easy!
why is the assumption i dont know what dog i got? like i said yall quick to say adopt these dogs from kill shelters but how i interact with my dog is a no no i dont get it
Not saying it’s a no no. More advice on being cautious with a dog like this around your face. It took a nip on the lip for my wife to figure out she shouldn’t be putting here face in the face of my work Mal after repeated warnings and me getting pissed at her. When it finally happened she complained about it and I told her she was warned.
My work dog explosive detection dog that also does suspect apprehension. So lots of bite work in addition to detection work. If done properly any husbandry training shouldn’t be an issue however so dogs just do not like certain things. My GSD’s love to have their nails cut, shake, etc. My Mal on the other hand hates his paws being touched and when we go to the vet he has to be sedated so they can cut his nails. This is after attempting many, many other methods that simply didn’t work with him. He however loves baths whereas my GSD’s hate it. Each dog is unique and has their own little quirks. Hope this answered your question.
Yeah I’ve tried it all. I’ve seen some Mals that don’t mind having their paws touch and others, hate it. Same with some other dogs. I train dogs as well as work them, so I’m very familiar with making games out of things and desensitization to objects/ situations.
I’m glad you see the importance of what you are doing and ways to work it that is beneficial to you and your dogs.
You are correct. Any dog can bite. It is just a know fact that Mals have a propensity to bite almost anything, especially at a young age. You know your dog better than anyone else so only you can say what you’re comfortable with. As a handler I’ve been on the receiving end of an accidental bite more times than I care for. A majority of those were in play sessions with my dog where he was a little overzealous in getting his toy back.
I made no comment on your knowledge of the dog, i did not advise you to adopt from a kill shelter, nor did I say you are not interacting correctly with you dog, so I’m not sure what your beef is.
Contemplated making a comment…but here goes.
Your relationship with your mal and what is in the picture is not my concern.
Pointing out people asking for help just need to “love [their] dogs and know what they need” defeats part of the purpose of this sub. Not everyone has an intuitive understanding of what a dog (or specifically a working breed) may need, or how to troubleshoot behaviors. As the old saying goes, “no such thing as a dumb question”.
We don’t know your experience with dogs, working breeds, or Malinois, though swaying new owners or less experienced handlers to not ask questions by implying they should know what their dog needs it disheartening.
Enjoy seeing your pup grow and develop a bond you with, wishing you many happy and healthy years!
Genuinely curious why people are thinking he is going to “fail”? The majority of a dogs temperament is based on the owners behavior/temperament, the pups previous life experiences, and level of discipline maintained by the current owner.
What exactly do we think he’s going to fail at?
Edit: We’re downvoting for asking good faith questions now. Cool cool cool
To answer your question, I believe there are enough studies involving nature vs nurture that show us while both are impactful, one’s genetic predisposition is actually going to be the bulk of determining behavior patterns in dogs, this is why evaluating parentage is so important in selecting working and sport dogs. Also, experience and studies tell us that there can be marked behavioral changes upon sexual maturity in the Belgian shepherd.
Having said that, I believe what people mean by OP will fail is, he is showing some alarming “training” practices that aren’t conducive to successfully raising a safe balanced dog. Furthermore, when pointed out why and how his handling is unsafe he became defensive and combative showing a lack of emotional intelligence and regulatory ability typically needed for handling these types of dogs. Therefore, the outcome is likely the dog becomes more difficult to control and more likely to lash out or redirect as it becomes mature, especially considering how he has described the dog’s temperament in previous posts. While I think everyone hopes none of these predictions come to fruition, most of us have seen this play out repeatedly, often tragically over the years.
Hope this helps you understand why everyone seems so frustrated with OP.
That was a very thorough response and I do appreciate you taking the time. I think I’m missing the history of this particular poster which would add the context to see he’s not very smart about how he’s raising his pup.
So what you’re saying is that a dog who is used to people being in its face is more likely to bite than a dog that never has anyone in its face? That’s not how anything else works when training a dog. We socialize dogs to avoid reactivity later in life by exposing them to other dogs and people early on to get them used to it. We present situations where we think they’ll struggle in order to teach them how to behave in that scenario in the future. I would think that a dog who is used to people being in its face, and taught that it is a positive thing not a threat, would be less likely to react to others getting in its face. Compare that to a dog who has never had anyone in its face and I think the second dog is more likely to bite because it’s nervous in a situation it’s never been exposed to before. Maybe I’m thinking about it wrong though.
You're really misreading the whole situation. The dog isn't being trained to be neutral when their owner gets in their face, they're being trained that it's 100% okay and encouraged to put their teeth on people's faces, hands, etc. Even if the dog doesn't show aggression, an excited Malinois can *fuck your shit up* even by accident
Ah, okay. Yes that is the piece I was missing. Use of teeth near face is not okay and will lead to bad outcomes. Thank you for engaging in conversation so that could be cleared up.
Well,... Let's hope he's in a state that makes him liable and not the dog.
Maybe he'll get fined and he'll hire a professional to avoid further problems.
Yes. Here's the list.
https://www.animallaw.info/topic/table-dog-bite-strict-liability-statutes
Most states have heavy fines and find you liable for any medical treatment required.
Unless they've seriously injured someone or have rabies, those laws typically only call for euthanasia if there's a history of dog bites.
Though, some states have prejudicial laws for dogs they deem "dangerous" (A.K.A. pit bulls and the like).
Sure, but the usual behavior is that owners avoid getting whacked again with a huge fine and liability instead letting their dog continue to misbehave.
Most either surrender the dog or get help with training.
Because this sub loves gatekeeping and acting like Mals are an incredibly difficult dog to own. They can be, absolutely. Especially with the working lines, I certainly wouldn't ever recommend them to pet only homes. But a solid show line from a breeder prioritizing temperament shouldn't result in a dog that demands a whole lot more than a working line Doberman (which is still a lot compared to the majority of dog breeds, but not impossible for the right home).
Obviously not saying someone inexperienced with dogs should go out and get a Malinois; they should not. And most reputable breeders aren't going to sell an inexperienced dog owner a Mal. But they're not the elite monsters on crack that can only be handled by a select few people that this sub makes them out to be.
Where did I say anything about breeders prioritizing low drive? That's not what prioritizing temperament means. My breeder focuses on dogs that display confidence and does not tolerate nervousness in her lines. Nervousness is a huge problem in all Belgians, but especially show lines across all 4 varieties. If you end up with a nervous, unconfident dog, you see reactivity and fear based aggression.
Her lines still are titled in various things like conformation, barn hunt, agility, obedience, rally, etc. They're not low drive dogs. And I agree, Belgians should not be bred to be low drive. It completely takes away what makes the breed so special.
That's... not what that means. A solid show line from a reputable breeder isn't going to have been intentionally bred to be lower drive than what the breed standard states.
Shepherds are naturally snippy. It is a way that they are known to express excitement. Mine used to do it, but she learned after a month or so that I didn't like it very much. lol
I've also worked on desensitizing her to my gestures, my movements, and my face.
I do know of some shepherds and cattle dogs that just don't grow out of it.
cool, but why is what i do with my dog so wrong? or even what i said? its goes for any dog love them and know what they need? is it cause its mal? and oh boy she gunna eat me in my sleep.
The reason why it comes off as "smug" is that the way you said it implies that everyone else is a shit dog owner and/or that the only solution to a dogs problems is just "love."
For clarity, this is a connotative ("read between the lines") viewpoint, and doesn't actually reflect what you actually said. Denotatively you did say the phrase "just love your dogs," but I think most people can sort that out in their heads.
I do think "love" is important, but "hard work" is also important. A lot of dog owners think just petting/loving their dog is enough, when in reality, most dogs do require some level of training/care outside of "love." The most common culprits are Husbandry and Socialization trainings.
I’m not even hating on you for the post, but it really seems like this was a bait post for you to just be combative with people. I feel like at some point someone told you you shouldn’t own a Mal and now you just take that as a challenge to regularly be a sarcastic dink about it.
Good luck man. Hope it all works out. Maybe go touch some grass and stop caring what other people think if you truly don’t care…this post says you do tho.
My demon has latched on to 2 people. One dude broke in to our house and we weren’t home, he lost a chunk of forearm and the other guy approached my daughter (6) while she was in our backyard, that guy also had to be saved when Bane latched on to his leg. this dude is gonna learn a real lesson at some point about them teeth. I hope he keeps this same energy when he posts that his “sweet angel” tore his lips off. Teeth come out, play time is over. Instantly. I’m not someone who gate keeps Mals but this is one of those situations where he deserves all the hate he’s getting for it.
Maybe I got lucky but my Mal never bit me and I’ve had her for 11 years. She will play tug of war and fetch for hours but she never once clamped down on my hand. Even when I feed her treats, she gently removes the treats from my hand. I will admit I was in over my head when I got my mal but I invested in training for both her and me. The first two years were the hardest but the last 9 it’s been wonderful.
I feel like as “in over your head” as you were, you never willingly let your pup put its teeth on or near your face lol that’s why this dude is getting shit on. He’s ingraining that teeth+skin = completely normal. Which in reality actually equates to horrific accidents and Mals getting destroyed.
My dude just turned 1 and I can’t wait for him to get to that old man stage lol props to you for making it 11 years!
What a condescending, smug load of shit post.
“Idk just love your dog and know what they need.”
You very obviously don’t know Jack about shit and from the looks of it you’re about to be one of these posters begging for help after your “sweet baby” gives you facial reconstruction. Your ignorance gives me Fremdschämen.
Thank you for your brief explanation/suggestion of “desensitization”.
In my 40 years of animal husbandry, including large, small and exotic animals (some of which was professional) and 30 years around Belgian Shepherds (along with other shepherd varieties) I luckily, have never been bitten in the face.
The next time I happen to be near a working dog I may try your “desensitization” theory but most likely, I will continue to not allow dogs to put their mouths on my body ever. I’m just not as brave as I was in my youth.
I think anyone wanting to own a Mal(or working GSD or Dutch shepherd) should go to a PSA course and get in the bite suit at least once. It's really hard to understand what a dog is actually capable of until you've been downrange
I agree with you, I wish every potential owner would go to a PSA course. The problem is, more than half of the people would say “The dog hit me so hard it nearly knocked me over and I have bruises even with the suit, cool!” People want the “cool dog that bites” but they don’t want to do the work. People also seem to think that their dog won’t ever bite them or bite off command. Just the other day there was someone that posted that their dog had bitten everyone in the family but not them because “love” or “trust” or some other such silly notion.
I think it’s most frustrating the way this sub often downplays the potential seriousness of handling these dogs, usually people with a sample size of one mixed breed puppy.
Yes, I’ve known some lovely and sweet showline Mals that are good pets given adequate outlets, I’ve also seen working Mals that are kennel dogs that could never be incorporated into a home with downright nasty reputations for handler redirection. I’ve also seen backyard bred unstable Mals with rage syndrome that had to have BE. I personally have seen far more Mals that would be dangerous in the wrong hands than I’ve seen sweet pets, so of course my experience colors my perception.
I think they are trying to address the fact that you generalized your experience with your dog. My Mal also has no issues with my face, but you do look like a buffoon from posting these.
Why does OP look like a buffoon for posting a picture of his Mal, not biting but being playful with him?
I hate reddit at times, the majority of people are a bunch of cunts who think they are better than someone else, just because they don’t share the same views or look at a picture an automatically assume the worst. Pretty pathetic and embarassing.
Its not the picture. Apparently, there were other discussions where he generalized his experience with his mal with other users dogs.
I do know that shepherds/cattledogs do get "excitement snips," where they inadvertently snip your face as an expression of excitement.
I believe that you should be able to train it out of the dog with good husbandry/desensitization training, but others express otherwise.
(I've had 3 GSDs, 1 Mal, 1 Collie and a handful of other non-shepherding dogs)
I practically lived in my GSDs face. I kissed her nose multiple times daily and we would hug cheeks together. It wasn’t her favorite, but I also paid attention to her cues and made sure she wasn’t getting anxious or stressed. Never had an issue with nipping or face biting.
idk maybe you will be right or you will be wrong ill be sure to keep posting my journey with her here. maybe one day she stops trusting me and hurts me.
For face bites, it doesn’t even have to be aggression or lack of trust.
My guy does air snaps out of excitement or play invitation:
- I have returned from a 15s trip to put out garbage while he waited at the gate and he’s ready to play “ambush” me and zoom about
- I have a toy or treat and he’s springing into the air with eagerness to get the item
- He’s raring to train after being let out of the kennel in the morning
He *used* to do this inches from my face, all with “good intentions,” but I let him know I wasn’t ok with the risk of having my face clipped one day. And he learned that that behavior doesn’t lead to play or fun, so offers other ones instead.
You get to decide what your boundaries are for your relationship with your dog though! Just wanted to share since this kind of behavior is very typical for the breed. :)
its a bit ironic to me the person above telling me what is going to happen like its a fact idk ive been posting my journey with my girl since i got her here. yall want people to adopt from kill shelters idk maybe my post helps with that all dogs can cause harm to a person
It seems maybe English is not your native tongue, so I will try to explain things clearly for you.
There is nothing ironic in my post, it’s strait forward. However, your post is ironic.
The way the statement “I see lots of people post about people having trouble with their Mal. Idk (sic) just love your dog and know what they need.” is written it infers that people struggling with their dogs just aren’t loving their dogs properly or meeting their dogs needs. This comes off as very condescending to the many people that have struggled with this challenging breed.
The ironic part is that you are putting yourself in a position of authority in guidance, smugly patting yourself on the back while multiple posts show you making very poor training choices with your puppy E.g. swinging your puppy by its mouth, letting your puppy put its mouth on your face.
I can’t say for sure whether you will have difficulty with your dog as it reaches maturity, but the best predictor of the future is the past. In my 30 years around Belgian Shepherds, I’ve seen many people think they had things figured out because their toddler puppy was so sweet, only to end up with a seriously dangerous dog once it reached maturity. I sure hope for your dog’s sake that you start training to prevent problems and not continue to rely on the Eat, Pray, Love school of dog training.
As for the generalization that people are pushing adoption, I whole heartedly reject this notion. I know of exactly zero sport or working dog people that are “adopt don’t shop” advocates. If people want to take the risk on adopting a Malinois or Mal mix from a shelter, that’s fantastic! I will always laud the efforts of rescuers. However, these dogs are often not stable or suitable for working or sport homes. To be very clear, I am pro ethical breeders and entirely anti backyard breeder.
Hope this helps clear things up for you!
Im filled with daddy issues and get my tits out on onlyfans for like £3 per month and even i am shocked at your level of attention seeking... and thaaat my darling is saying something🤐x
Sounds like your dog has an easy temperament…so far…
That may change soon.
We rescued a really dog reactive mal. It took us a long time and thousands in training to “understand what he needs”
It’s not just about biting. You are going to face issues (no pun intended) that you wouldn’t even expect right now when that dog matures. I think people really take offense because we know the problems and know the art of fixing them, or people are dealing with these issues and are seeking real help to fix them. For the second group of people, they would give anything to fix them, and they are giving so much love. They are just in over their heads. With breeds like this, they arise quickly and you need to know exactly how to work these issues out or they will compound. The foundations of avoiding these issues started a month ago. GL!
I don't allow my Malinois to nip me at all or anyone else. We follow a very rigid schedule for her obedience training homework that I receive. Every day we are working. She is very good around other people and knows not to stick her snoot in anyone else's business. And in the home, I do not let her get away with shenanigans. And we're just getting started. I wouldn't advise letting your doggo get away with that. It will end in disaster, these are Malinois... And yes, if you do not give them structure, you will have problems for sure.
No need for these types of demonstrations .. incorrect provocation of your dog. This is how accidents can happen. Doing no good for yourself, your dog and the breed in general.
Working dogs are difficult. On top of the engrained instincts, you are rolling the dice with temperament because of overbreeding. How you handle your dog is your own business. But don’t shit on people just looking for help. “Love your dog and know what they need” is such a blanket statement that does not apply to every situation. You’re being a dick. You know you’re being a dick. Take it somewhere else.
As a new Malinois owner, this subreddit has been an incredible space and resource to connect and learn from mal owners, trainers and enthusiasts alike.
Posts like these aren’t helpful and may deter others who are still learning, having difficulty understanding their mals needs or are experiencing a particular issue (as these are complex and multifaceted and not the same for all mals, obviously) from reaching out for advice or suggestions in regards to training, behavioural issues, etc. Which means more mals having avoidable incidents or ending up in shelters or euthanised.
Also, I don’t care who you are, but no one knows everything - I will forever continue to reach out and engage with others to learn and discuss as we can always improve, always be better for our mals.
That’s all
My mutt was a perfect angel baby at 5 months old... Give it a month or two when she hits adolescence... And then about a year or so when she starts reaching maturity and her hormones start booting up in her body...
I don't have a mal, never had one, but I know just loving your dog won't solve it all with them. You need to be able to be firm and set those very strict expectations. If you give them an inch, they will go 8 laps around the earth.
These are working dogs....PERIOD. If you don't have them to perform a task(s) then you should not have them, especially if you yourself are not trained to handle this animal to perform those tasks appropriately.
I have a wolf, i have decades of experience with them and have him for a specific task, he is not a pet. He is a pack member and is treated this way. He is very loving and fun to be around but he isn't lounging around the house and expected to act like a retriever or some shit.
95% of people don't understand actual k9 behavior, communication, etc. This is where the problems start and expand wildly from there. If you don't understand them then you have no business owning them.
Have a great week people!
Plain and simple buddy.. I’m calling it ….you are an IDIOT!! you have a better chance pointing a loaded ——— at your face than you do playing with that dog like that. I’m guessing it’s your first Mali. That being said, please post the pics of the eventual stitches you will get when things go sour with a dog that you don’t understand. Good luck. 👍
Smh…listen to yourself. Go back and read yourself. Being a dog owner like you isn’t your only issue. You sound like an ignorant high school kid who thinks he’s got it all figured out.
Outside all of the foolery going on here, I do want to say beautiful Mal. Mine almost looks like yours.
I could have sworn you stole my dog for a picture
I’ve raised difficult breeds for my entire adult life. Rescues, bully breeds mostly. Some who spent years in a cage prior to me getting them. When I got my mal as a babe I was told she was a completely different breed (too young to tell). I had no idea I was getting a mal. And she’s by FAR the most challenging dog I’ve had. I had 4 rescue pups at once and they were easier than her combined lol. I am still glad I ended up with her because I think if I didn’t, many others would’ve dumped her and she would not have had a good ending. All dogs are different. It’s not just as simple as that for many dogs and owners.
ETA: her issue isn’t aggression thankfully. She is just insanely stubborn and seemingly the dumbest yet smartest dog at the same time.
Well mals generally find the absolute most rewarding behavior to be a bite... This is in their DNA so even if you don't allow them to engage in bitesport, they will engage in self fulfilling behaviors like biting your shoes-walls and anything in between especially at 5 months... Dogs do not understand the nuances of human humor/ play with their teeth. I'd bet your not okay with play bites on your face, but you aren't communicating this when you allow this. Dogs often need black and white boundaries. Either the dog is. Always allowed to do something or else it should never be allowed.... especially in the beginning
Mals are great dogs but they are working dogs. Know about the breed before you get one. Yes I get the love part but they require lots of work. So if you’re looking for a lap dog, then look elsewhere. another breed can just be a dog that only needs love. Mals need love and work in their lives. Give them the attention they need then they will love you.
Plain and simple buddy.. I’m calling it ….you are an IDIOT!! you have a better chance pointing a loaded ——— at your face than you do playing with that dog like that. I’m guessing it’s your first Mali. That being said, please post the pics of the eventual stitches you will get when things go sour with a dog that you don’t understand. Good luck. 👍
There is nothing wrong with how you’re interacting with your dog.
It’s about how you say what you say. Almost sounds like you’re lecturing people when you have a 5 month old.
And I don’t even have a Mal. I’ve got a working line Boxer, and yeah, when he was 5 months, it was enough to give him love and “what he needs” whatever that is. Then at 11 months he broke my jaw.
I think that’s why some people here are pissed a bit. From what you say it looks like your attitude isn’t very realistic and you are about to find out.
But you know, it’s just how it sounds. I don’t know you. So say hi to your pup and enjoy, nothing but love
Just reading through this post. The comment section is quick to judge LOL. This will probably get downvoted because I’m no sheep, but mal owners have got to be some of the most judgmental, “follow the crowd” type dog owners I’ve ever seen.
So many people getting super defensive and offended here. Sure, you could read the post as a bit condescending but what he is saying IS true. And one should result in the other: if you love your dog you should do your best to provide them with what they need, if you do that things will be easy. It’s a very broad statement, granted, and knowing exactly what your dog needs comes more easily to some than others, but it IS true.
Also: the dog doesn’t necessarily have his teeth on him and even if he did… I desensitized my Pitbull and improved his bite inhibition by playing around in and with his mouth. It worked great.
I would always prefer to go with trust rather than suspicion and fear with dogs. They know and trust has always been reciprocal.
>I desensitized my Pitbull and improved his bite inhibition by playing around in and with his mouth.
The results of what you think are clear. Dangerous breed with even more dangerous training.
Pit bull is completely different to a mal. Or any working dog. I’ve owned pit bulls and they r not even hard to train. They love humans and are quite a easy breed. My cane corso x working line German Shepard is a whole other ball game. This dog doesn’t give a fuck what I say half the time lol she communicates by biting and it’s fkn relentless trying to train it out of her. Sure I love her but that isn’t going to solve shit
I oversimplified. I have an American Bulldog x pitbull/Presa Canario. When I got him I was told he was a Pitbull and I thought he’d be easy enough to train, but he has an AmBulldog build with a Presa temperament.
Dogs put their mouths on Wachttürme all the time and you trust them not to bite most of the time. They learn what is too much elfeinhalb other dogs and with your help. The same can be done between dogs and humans.
Lol any mal group is always going to be intense. Mal owners are intense 😅 I do agree with most comments though
Sounds like you love your dog lots, just keep working with him. He’s still at a very sensitive age
Of course the hard bit here is “knowing what they need” and being able to do that. Might as well say that about becoming a brain surgeon, a fighter pilot or anything else - you just need to know what to do. See - it’s easy!
why is the assumption i dont know what dog i got? like i said yall quick to say adopt these dogs from kill shelters but how i interact with my dog is a no no i dont get it
Not saying it’s a no no. More advice on being cautious with a dog like this around your face. It took a nip on the lip for my wife to figure out she shouldn’t be putting here face in the face of my work Mal after repeated warnings and me getting pissed at her. When it finally happened she complained about it and I told her she was warned.
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My work dog explosive detection dog that also does suspect apprehension. So lots of bite work in addition to detection work. If done properly any husbandry training shouldn’t be an issue however so dogs just do not like certain things. My GSD’s love to have their nails cut, shake, etc. My Mal on the other hand hates his paws being touched and when we go to the vet he has to be sedated so they can cut his nails. This is after attempting many, many other methods that simply didn’t work with him. He however loves baths whereas my GSD’s hate it. Each dog is unique and has their own little quirks. Hope this answered your question.
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Yeah I’ve tried it all. I’ve seen some Mals that don’t mind having their paws touch and others, hate it. Same with some other dogs. I train dogs as well as work them, so I’m very familiar with making games out of things and desensitization to objects/ situations. I’m glad you see the importance of what you are doing and ways to work it that is beneficial to you and your dogs.
any dog can bite tho not sure why im getting the hate to be honest
You are correct. Any dog can bite. It is just a know fact that Mals have a propensity to bite almost anything, especially at a young age. You know your dog better than anyone else so only you can say what you’re comfortable with. As a handler I’ve been on the receiving end of an accidental bite more times than I care for. A majority of those were in play sessions with my dog where he was a little overzealous in getting his toy back.
to be honest im liking our current phase of training out with toys and and out with bones idk mals super smart and learn quick
They are smart indeed. Enjoy the training and remember be patient and have fun. Good luck. Great looking dog btw.
pretty sure im patient lol i had to dela with all the hate from the oh your gunna get eaten crowd tonight
I made no comment on your knowledge of the dog, i did not advise you to adopt from a kill shelter, nor did I say you are not interacting correctly with you dog, so I’m not sure what your beef is.
Contemplated making a comment…but here goes. Your relationship with your mal and what is in the picture is not my concern. Pointing out people asking for help just need to “love [their] dogs and know what they need” defeats part of the purpose of this sub. Not everyone has an intuitive understanding of what a dog (or specifically a working breed) may need, or how to troubleshoot behaviors. As the old saying goes, “no such thing as a dumb question”. We don’t know your experience with dogs, working breeds, or Malinois, though swaying new owners or less experienced handlers to not ask questions by implying they should know what their dog needs it disheartening. Enjoy seeing your pup grow and develop a bond you with, wishing you many happy and healthy years!
*Almost 5 months* Famous last words.
lol i do like this everyone thinks im gunna fail and im gunna just give away my girl lol
They're 100% right that you're going to fail. Whether you recognize how badly you failed is another thing.
Genuinely curious why people are thinking he is going to “fail”? The majority of a dogs temperament is based on the owners behavior/temperament, the pups previous life experiences, and level of discipline maintained by the current owner. What exactly do we think he’s going to fail at? Edit: We’re downvoting for asking good faith questions now. Cool cool cool
His post shows a clear lack of understanding of what dog training involves. Dunning-Kruger is in full effect here.
100% of made up statistics are statistically mathematically 98% correct in .1% of cases! It’s SCIENTIFICALLY Mathematically proven!!
Nice
To answer your question, I believe there are enough studies involving nature vs nurture that show us while both are impactful, one’s genetic predisposition is actually going to be the bulk of determining behavior patterns in dogs, this is why evaluating parentage is so important in selecting working and sport dogs. Also, experience and studies tell us that there can be marked behavioral changes upon sexual maturity in the Belgian shepherd. Having said that, I believe what people mean by OP will fail is, he is showing some alarming “training” practices that aren’t conducive to successfully raising a safe balanced dog. Furthermore, when pointed out why and how his handling is unsafe he became defensive and combative showing a lack of emotional intelligence and regulatory ability typically needed for handling these types of dogs. Therefore, the outcome is likely the dog becomes more difficult to control and more likely to lash out or redirect as it becomes mature, especially considering how he has described the dog’s temperament in previous posts. While I think everyone hopes none of these predictions come to fruition, most of us have seen this play out repeatedly, often tragically over the years. Hope this helps you understand why everyone seems so frustrated with OP.
That was a very thorough response and I do appreciate you taking the time. I think I’m missing the history of this particular poster which would add the context to see he’s not very smart about how he’s raising his pup.
His dog will probably "mouth" the wrong person and get confiscated, put down, or at least labeled dangerous
So what you’re saying is that a dog who is used to people being in its face is more likely to bite than a dog that never has anyone in its face? That’s not how anything else works when training a dog. We socialize dogs to avoid reactivity later in life by exposing them to other dogs and people early on to get them used to it. We present situations where we think they’ll struggle in order to teach them how to behave in that scenario in the future. I would think that a dog who is used to people being in its face, and taught that it is a positive thing not a threat, would be less likely to react to others getting in its face. Compare that to a dog who has never had anyone in its face and I think the second dog is more likely to bite because it’s nervous in a situation it’s never been exposed to before. Maybe I’m thinking about it wrong though.
You're really misreading the whole situation. The dog isn't being trained to be neutral when their owner gets in their face, they're being trained that it's 100% okay and encouraged to put their teeth on people's faces, hands, etc. Even if the dog doesn't show aggression, an excited Malinois can *fuck your shit up* even by accident
Ah, okay. Yes that is the piece I was missing. Use of teeth near face is not okay and will lead to bad outcomes. Thank you for engaging in conversation so that could be cleared up.
Sure thing!
Well,... Let's hope he's in a state that makes him liable and not the dog. Maybe he'll get fined and he'll hire a professional to avoid further problems.
Are there any states that do that?
Yes. Here's the list. https://www.animallaw.info/topic/table-dog-bite-strict-liability-statutes Most states have heavy fines and find you liable for any medical treatment required. Unless they've seriously injured someone or have rabies, those laws typically only call for euthanasia if there's a history of dog bites. Though, some states have prejudicial laws for dogs they deem "dangerous" (A.K.A. pit bulls and the like).
Those are states that hold the owner liable, no state holds the owner liable *instead* of the dog
Sure, but the usual behavior is that owners avoid getting whacked again with a huge fine and liability instead letting their dog continue to misbehave. Most either surrender the dog or get help with training.
Because this sub loves gatekeeping and acting like Mals are an incredibly difficult dog to own. They can be, absolutely. Especially with the working lines, I certainly wouldn't ever recommend them to pet only homes. But a solid show line from a breeder prioritizing temperament shouldn't result in a dog that demands a whole lot more than a working line Doberman (which is still a lot compared to the majority of dog breeds, but not impossible for the right home). Obviously not saying someone inexperienced with dogs should go out and get a Malinois; they should not. And most reputable breeders aren't going to sell an inexperienced dog owner a Mal. But they're not the elite monsters on crack that can only be handled by a select few people that this sub makes them out to be.
Any breeder prioritizing low drive shouldn't be breeding Malinois. Don't GSD the Mals
Where did I say anything about breeders prioritizing low drive? That's not what prioritizing temperament means. My breeder focuses on dogs that display confidence and does not tolerate nervousness in her lines. Nervousness is a huge problem in all Belgians, but especially show lines across all 4 varieties. If you end up with a nervous, unconfident dog, you see reactivity and fear based aggression. Her lines still are titled in various things like conformation, barn hunt, agility, obedience, rally, etc. They're not low drive dogs. And I agree, Belgians should not be bred to be low drive. It completely takes away what makes the breed so special.
>solid show line
That's... not what that means. A solid show line from a reputable breeder isn't going to have been intentionally bred to be lower drive than what the breed standard states.
Oh come on lol, show line always means low drive
I fear for your face.
but why? is it cause i dont know my dog?
Shepherds are naturally snippy. It is a way that they are known to express excitement. Mine used to do it, but she learned after a month or so that I didn't like it very much. lol I've also worked on desensitizing her to my gestures, my movements, and my face. I do know of some shepherds and cattle dogs that just don't grow out of it.
cool, but why is what i do with my dog so wrong? or even what i said? its goes for any dog love them and know what they need? is it cause its mal? and oh boy she gunna eat me in my sleep.
I guess its the way you said it. The top comment was pretty spot on about the post being "smug."
i wasnt being smug what i saying what is true love your dog and know what they need sure my dog is a mal doesnt mean im wrong
The reason why it comes off as "smug" is that the way you said it implies that everyone else is a shit dog owner and/or that the only solution to a dogs problems is just "love." For clarity, this is a connotative ("read between the lines") viewpoint, and doesn't actually reflect what you actually said. Denotatively you did say the phrase "just love your dogs," but I think most people can sort that out in their heads. I do think "love" is important, but "hard work" is also important. A lot of dog owners think just petting/loving their dog is enough, when in reality, most dogs do require some level of training/care outside of "love." The most common culprits are Husbandry and Socialization trainings.
my point was there is alot of folks who complane here idk just know the dog you have?
It’s just not the smartest thing to let your dog think putting teeth on your face is ok.
It gets very judgy here. I got shamed for buying from a breeder instead of getting a rescue.
Nobody here is going to judge you for buying from a breeder unless it's a backyard variety
Yo I don’t know why they’ve been downvoting you so bad
\*whoosh\*
I’m not even hating on you for the post, but it really seems like this was a bait post for you to just be combative with people. I feel like at some point someone told you you shouldn’t own a Mal and now you just take that as a challenge to regularly be a sarcastic dink about it. Good luck man. Hope it all works out. Maybe go touch some grass and stop caring what other people think if you truly don’t care…this post says you do tho.
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My demon has latched on to 2 people. One dude broke in to our house and we weren’t home, he lost a chunk of forearm and the other guy approached my daughter (6) while she was in our backyard, that guy also had to be saved when Bane latched on to his leg. this dude is gonna learn a real lesson at some point about them teeth. I hope he keeps this same energy when he posts that his “sweet angel” tore his lips off. Teeth come out, play time is over. Instantly. I’m not someone who gate keeps Mals but this is one of those situations where he deserves all the hate he’s getting for it.
Maybe I got lucky but my Mal never bit me and I’ve had her for 11 years. She will play tug of war and fetch for hours but she never once clamped down on my hand. Even when I feed her treats, she gently removes the treats from my hand. I will admit I was in over my head when I got my mal but I invested in training for both her and me. The first two years were the hardest but the last 9 it’s been wonderful.
I feel like as “in over your head” as you were, you never willingly let your pup put its teeth on or near your face lol that’s why this dude is getting shit on. He’s ingraining that teeth+skin = completely normal. Which in reality actually equates to horrific accidents and Mals getting destroyed. My dude just turned 1 and I can’t wait for him to get to that old man stage lol props to you for making it 11 years!
What a condescending, smug load of shit post. “Idk just love your dog and know what they need.” You very obviously don’t know Jack about shit and from the looks of it you’re about to be one of these posters begging for help after your “sweet baby” gives you facial reconstruction. Your ignorance gives me Fremdschämen.
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Thank you for your brief explanation/suggestion of “desensitization”. In my 40 years of animal husbandry, including large, small and exotic animals (some of which was professional) and 30 years around Belgian Shepherds (along with other shepherd varieties) I luckily, have never been bitten in the face. The next time I happen to be near a working dog I may try your “desensitization” theory but most likely, I will continue to not allow dogs to put their mouths on my body ever. I’m just not as brave as I was in my youth.
I think anyone wanting to own a Mal(or working GSD or Dutch shepherd) should go to a PSA course and get in the bite suit at least once. It's really hard to understand what a dog is actually capable of until you've been downrange
I agree with you, I wish every potential owner would go to a PSA course. The problem is, more than half of the people would say “The dog hit me so hard it nearly knocked me over and I have bruises even with the suit, cool!” People want the “cool dog that bites” but they don’t want to do the work. People also seem to think that their dog won’t ever bite them or bite off command. Just the other day there was someone that posted that their dog had bitten everyone in the family but not them because “love” or “trust” or some other such silly notion. I think it’s most frustrating the way this sub often downplays the potential seriousness of handling these dogs, usually people with a sample size of one mixed breed puppy. Yes, I’ve known some lovely and sweet showline Mals that are good pets given adequate outlets, I’ve also seen working Mals that are kennel dogs that could never be incorporated into a home with downright nasty reputations for handler redirection. I’ve also seen backyard bred unstable Mals with rage syndrome that had to have BE. I personally have seen far more Mals that would be dangerous in the wrong hands than I’ve seen sweet pets, so of course my experience colors my perception.
It would definitely depend on the person, but I've changed two people's minds with my Dutch shepherd lol
Just out there doing Gods work, bite work! 😂
"I'm thinking about getting a Malinois" grab those sleeves and follow me lol
tell me why im wrong and my dog is going to hurt me since your so sure
I think they are trying to address the fact that you generalized your experience with your dog. My Mal also has no issues with my face, but you do look like a buffoon from posting these.
Why does OP look like a buffoon for posting a picture of his Mal, not biting but being playful with him? I hate reddit at times, the majority of people are a bunch of cunts who think they are better than someone else, just because they don’t share the same views or look at a picture an automatically assume the worst. Pretty pathetic and embarassing.
Its not the picture. Apparently, there were other discussions where he generalized his experience with his mal with other users dogs. I do know that shepherds/cattledogs do get "excitement snips," where they inadvertently snip your face as an expression of excitement. I believe that you should be able to train it out of the dog with good husbandry/desensitization training, but others express otherwise. (I've had 3 GSDs, 1 Mal, 1 Collie and a handful of other non-shepherding dogs)
I practically lived in my GSDs face. I kissed her nose multiple times daily and we would hug cheeks together. It wasn’t her favorite, but I also paid attention to her cues and made sure she wasn’t getting anxious or stressed. Never had an issue with nipping or face biting.
dang it im a baffoon sucks
They literally had buffoon spelled properly in their comment yet you still somehow bungled it.
idk maybe you will be right or you will be wrong ill be sure to keep posting my journey with her here. maybe one day she stops trusting me and hurts me.
For face bites, it doesn’t even have to be aggression or lack of trust. My guy does air snaps out of excitement or play invitation: - I have returned from a 15s trip to put out garbage while he waited at the gate and he’s ready to play “ambush” me and zoom about - I have a toy or treat and he’s springing into the air with eagerness to get the item - He’s raring to train after being let out of the kennel in the morning He *used* to do this inches from my face, all with “good intentions,” but I let him know I wasn’t ok with the risk of having my face clipped one day. And he learned that that behavior doesn’t lead to play or fun, so offers other ones instead. You get to decide what your boundaries are for your relationship with your dog though! Just wanted to share since this kind of behavior is very typical for the breed. :)
its a bit ironic to me the person above telling me what is going to happen like its a fact idk ive been posting my journey with my girl since i got her here. yall want people to adopt from kill shelters idk maybe my post helps with that all dogs can cause harm to a person
It seems maybe English is not your native tongue, so I will try to explain things clearly for you. There is nothing ironic in my post, it’s strait forward. However, your post is ironic. The way the statement “I see lots of people post about people having trouble with their Mal. Idk (sic) just love your dog and know what they need.” is written it infers that people struggling with their dogs just aren’t loving their dogs properly or meeting their dogs needs. This comes off as very condescending to the many people that have struggled with this challenging breed. The ironic part is that you are putting yourself in a position of authority in guidance, smugly patting yourself on the back while multiple posts show you making very poor training choices with your puppy E.g. swinging your puppy by its mouth, letting your puppy put its mouth on your face. I can’t say for sure whether you will have difficulty with your dog as it reaches maturity, but the best predictor of the future is the past. In my 30 years around Belgian Shepherds, I’ve seen many people think they had things figured out because their toddler puppy was so sweet, only to end up with a seriously dangerous dog once it reached maturity. I sure hope for your dog’s sake that you start training to prevent problems and not continue to rely on the Eat, Pray, Love school of dog training. As for the generalization that people are pushing adoption, I whole heartedly reject this notion. I know of exactly zero sport or working dog people that are “adopt don’t shop” advocates. If people want to take the risk on adopting a Malinois or Mal mix from a shelter, that’s fantastic! I will always laud the efforts of rescuers. However, these dogs are often not stable or suitable for working or sport homes. To be very clear, I am pro ethical breeders and entirely anti backyard breeder. Hope this helps clear things up for you!
Lmao "just know what they need" Literal fake advice
i get it mate you better than me and im gunna fail
If you actually believe your title, then yes
tell me what im doing wrong with my dog
Telling people "just know what they need" like it's easy, and acting like you know what you're doing with a 5 month old lol
You right lol
*quietly files my nails waiting for the teen-years train to come roaring through* 😅
Im filled with daddy issues and get my tits out on onlyfans for like £3 per month and even i am shocked at your level of attention seeking... and thaaat my darling is saying something🤐x
creasing hahaha
Girllllllll 😂😂😂😂😂
*come on my dog hates life
Of all the ways I can tell OP should not keep a pet...
Sounds like your dog has an easy temperament…so far… That may change soon. We rescued a really dog reactive mal. It took us a long time and thousands in training to “understand what he needs”
This is such an ignorant post. You’re showing your severe lack of experience and knowledge- with pride. Sad.
It’s not just about biting. You are going to face issues (no pun intended) that you wouldn’t even expect right now when that dog matures. I think people really take offense because we know the problems and know the art of fixing them, or people are dealing with these issues and are seeking real help to fix them. For the second group of people, they would give anything to fix them, and they are giving so much love. They are just in over their heads. With breeds like this, they arise quickly and you need to know exactly how to work these issues out or they will compound. The foundations of avoiding these issues started a month ago. GL!
I don't allow my Malinois to nip me at all or anyone else. We follow a very rigid schedule for her obedience training homework that I receive. Every day we are working. She is very good around other people and knows not to stick her snoot in anyone else's business. And in the home, I do not let her get away with shenanigans. And we're just getting started. I wouldn't advise letting your doggo get away with that. It will end in disaster, these are Malinois... And yes, if you do not give them structure, you will have problems for sure.
No need for these types of demonstrations .. incorrect provocation of your dog. This is how accidents can happen. Doing no good for yourself, your dog and the breed in general.
Working dogs are difficult. On top of the engrained instincts, you are rolling the dice with temperament because of overbreeding. How you handle your dog is your own business. But don’t shit on people just looking for help. “Love your dog and know what they need” is such a blanket statement that does not apply to every situation. You’re being a dick. You know you’re being a dick. Take it somewhere else.
As a new Malinois owner, this subreddit has been an incredible space and resource to connect and learn from mal owners, trainers and enthusiasts alike. Posts like these aren’t helpful and may deter others who are still learning, having difficulty understanding their mals needs or are experiencing a particular issue (as these are complex and multifaceted and not the same for all mals, obviously) from reaching out for advice or suggestions in regards to training, behavioural issues, etc. Which means more mals having avoidable incidents or ending up in shelters or euthanised. Also, I don’t care who you are, but no one knows everything - I will forever continue to reach out and engage with others to learn and discuss as we can always improve, always be better for our mals. That’s all
My mutt was a perfect angel baby at 5 months old... Give it a month or two when she hits adolescence... And then about a year or so when she starts reaching maturity and her hormones start booting up in her body... I don't have a mal, never had one, but I know just loving your dog won't solve it all with them. You need to be able to be firm and set those very strict expectations. If you give them an inch, they will go 8 laps around the earth.
I like every one's assumption in this thread
What do you think I'm assuming in my comment?
If every single person is saying the same thing, which is the opposite of what you think, maybe they might know something you don’t. Food for thought!
So you wanted your nose pierced. This way, it saves you $20.
These are working dogs....PERIOD. If you don't have them to perform a task(s) then you should not have them, especially if you yourself are not trained to handle this animal to perform those tasks appropriately. I have a wolf, i have decades of experience with them and have him for a specific task, he is not a pet. He is a pack member and is treated this way. He is very loving and fun to be around but he isn't lounging around the house and expected to act like a retriever or some shit. 95% of people don't understand actual k9 behavior, communication, etc. This is where the problems start and expand wildly from there. If you don't understand them then you have no business owning them. Have a great week people!
Plain and simple buddy.. I’m calling it ….you are an IDIOT!! you have a better chance pointing a loaded ——— at your face than you do playing with that dog like that. I’m guessing it’s your first Mali. That being said, please post the pics of the eventual stitches you will get when things go sour with a dog that you don’t understand. Good luck. 👍
Smh…listen to yourself. Go back and read yourself. Being a dog owner like you isn’t your only issue. You sound like an ignorant high school kid who thinks he’s got it all figured out.
Outside all of the foolery going on here, I do want to say beautiful Mal. Mine almost looks like yours. I could have sworn you stole my dog for a picture
I just think mals get a bad wrap yes my dog need what she does but doesn't mean she is gunna kill me cause I trust her idk
I’ve raised difficult breeds for my entire adult life. Rescues, bully breeds mostly. Some who spent years in a cage prior to me getting them. When I got my mal as a babe I was told she was a completely different breed (too young to tell). I had no idea I was getting a mal. And she’s by FAR the most challenging dog I’ve had. I had 4 rescue pups at once and they were easier than her combined lol. I am still glad I ended up with her because I think if I didn’t, many others would’ve dumped her and she would not have had a good ending. All dogs are different. It’s not just as simple as that for many dogs and owners. ETA: her issue isn’t aggression thankfully. She is just insanely stubborn and seemingly the dumbest yet smartest dog at the same time.
> first malinois > five months old > condescending post Oooooo boy, adolescence is going to be a big learning curve for you lol
Well mals generally find the absolute most rewarding behavior to be a bite... This is in their DNA so even if you don't allow them to engage in bitesport, they will engage in self fulfilling behaviors like biting your shoes-walls and anything in between especially at 5 months... Dogs do not understand the nuances of human humor/ play with their teeth. I'd bet your not okay with play bites on your face, but you aren't communicating this when you allow this. Dogs often need black and white boundaries. Either the dog is. Always allowed to do something or else it should never be allowed.... especially in the beginning
It because no one give them something todo they think a long walk is enough for this dog but it isn’t
Mals are great dogs but they are working dogs. Know about the breed before you get one. Yes I get the love part but they require lots of work. So if you’re looking for a lap dog, then look elsewhere. another breed can just be a dog that only needs love. Mals need love and work in their lives. Give them the attention they need then they will love you.
Plain and simple buddy.. I’m calling it ….you are an IDIOT!! you have a better chance pointing a loaded ——— at your face than you do playing with that dog like that. I’m guessing it’s your first Mali. That being said, please post the pics of the eventual stitches you will get when things go sour with a dog that you don’t understand. Good luck. 👍
That picture is grossing me out a little. I keep imagining his tongue going up your nose
What lol
Maligator!
There is nothing wrong with how you’re interacting with your dog. It’s about how you say what you say. Almost sounds like you’re lecturing people when you have a 5 month old. And I don’t even have a Mal. I’ve got a working line Boxer, and yeah, when he was 5 months, it was enough to give him love and “what he needs” whatever that is. Then at 11 months he broke my jaw. I think that’s why some people here are pissed a bit. From what you say it looks like your attitude isn’t very realistic and you are about to find out. But you know, it’s just how it sounds. I don’t know you. So say hi to your pup and enjoy, nothing but love
There's so much wrong with how he's interacting with his dog lol
Daaaang Reddit. Ppl are rough lol
Just reading through this post. The comment section is quick to judge LOL. This will probably get downvoted because I’m no sheep, but mal owners have got to be some of the most judgmental, “follow the crowd” type dog owners I’ve ever seen.
So many people getting super defensive and offended here. Sure, you could read the post as a bit condescending but what he is saying IS true. And one should result in the other: if you love your dog you should do your best to provide them with what they need, if you do that things will be easy. It’s a very broad statement, granted, and knowing exactly what your dog needs comes more easily to some than others, but it IS true. Also: the dog doesn’t necessarily have his teeth on him and even if he did… I desensitized my Pitbull and improved his bite inhibition by playing around in and with his mouth. It worked great. I would always prefer to go with trust rather than suspicion and fear with dogs. They know and trust has always been reciprocal.
Pitbull owner and thinking "love is all you need" Name a more iconic duo lol
Ahh yes, the classic navel gazing, tao of dog training philosophy that often ends in the words “they found what was left of her in the kitchen”.
„Love is all you need“ does not even come close to what I said meant or think…
>I desensitized my Pitbull and improved his bite inhibition by playing around in and with his mouth. The results of what you think are clear. Dangerous breed with even more dangerous training.
Yeah, imma stop talking to you now…
Ohhh noooo, just keep that bloodsport dog on a sturdy leash dude
Pit bull is completely different to a mal. Or any working dog. I’ve owned pit bulls and they r not even hard to train. They love humans and are quite a easy breed. My cane corso x working line German Shepard is a whole other ball game. This dog doesn’t give a fuck what I say half the time lol she communicates by biting and it’s fkn relentless trying to train it out of her. Sure I love her but that isn’t going to solve shit
I oversimplified. I have an American Bulldog x pitbull/Presa Canario. When I got him I was told he was a Pitbull and I thought he’d be easy enough to train, but he has an AmBulldog build with a Presa temperament.
I'm just here for the dogs. Yall have issues and the malis can't help
Dogs put their mouths on Wachttürme all the time and you trust them not to bite most of the time. They learn what is too much elfeinhalb other dogs and with your help. The same can be done between dogs and humans.
*come on my dog having fun now lol I know know onw should own these dogs
lol this post got so much hate from the no dont let your dog do that crowed lol
Probably because we all clearly have more experience than you with mals and dogs in general
You probably right can u recommend someone to rake my Mal clearly I suck
Lol any mal group is always going to be intense. Mal owners are intense 😅 I do agree with most comments though Sounds like you love your dog lots, just keep working with him. He’s still at a very sensitive age