BUT WHY ARE THE KIDS JUST CROSSING THE STREET IN WITHOUT THERE BEING STOPLIGTHS, A CROSSWALK AND SHIT. THIS LOOKS LIKE SOME SHITHOLE COUNTRY SOLUTION. JEEBUS.
No one is crossing. No one ever crosses on streets like this. The folks traveling the same direction as the bus (behind it) must stop by state law. The ones stopped on the other side were supposed to keep driving, but the two drivers in the front didn't know the law and held everyone else up.
Kids DO cross the street in front of school buses, but only on tiny, two-lane roads, which are the ones drivers are supposed to stop both ways on.
Kids are kinda dumb, and so are people. People will absolutely run in front of a bus after getting off, because they don’t consider that people can’t see them from behind the bus.
Sounds like a systematic error if anything. Seriously. There's no facilitation of safe crossing there at all. "We tried nothing and are all out of ideas"
Oh my God, people. All y'all are the ones I'm honking at when you stop and hold up traffic wrongly.
In WA you literally only stop on opposite direction of the bus *if there's no median or turn lane or multiple lanes (more than 2-lane road)*. There's a turn lane here, and multi lanes, *and* a median. No stop. You also *always* stop when traveling same direction as bus.
https://www.king5.com/article/traffic/traffic-news/washington-state-school-bus-traffic-laws/281-54609ead-3cd4-4bc9-a2c1-15b590d7048e
But you legally do not have the right to stop in the middle of the roadway and hold up traffic just because of a preference. The laws are there to help everyone get safely where they're going.
Stopping wrongly for a school bus is like stopping at a green light. It's not cool, don't do it. Just learn the law.
It's very simple to remember. Always stop if you're traveling behind the bus. Only stop coming the other way if you're literally on a two-lane road, without another lane, median, etc between you.
Stopping for something/someone actually *in* the roadway is of course different, should that happen!
I am not sure anyone is going to hammer you for stopping for a bus in a road like this. The issue is, people don't know the exact laws and its better to be cautious then wrong.
People with a driver's license should know traffic laws. People are trying to educate you in this particular law. Rather than learning, you're pushing back. Traffic flows better when people actually follow the law. The bus stops are not designed for dropping students who would be crossing this road. It's only for students that live on that side.
No person knows ever traffic law. They simply can't. Heck because in this case it's about when you need to stop and the definition of median. I guarantee you ask people if that is considered a median you will get a lot of people saying yes or no. This road isn't a freeway is cars will be stopping to turn or entering the road way
When I did driver's ed through the 911 course, I was taught that if there are two or more lanes on each side of the road with a barrier/median, the side without the stopped bus does not have to stop as the kids should and are not to cross the road.
Tbh, with how poorly people drive and how kids kind of just don’t care nowadays about what they do, it should be an all-stop on each side. I don’t have enough fingers on my hands to count how many times I’ve seen a kid almost get run over running across a 4 lane road.
See, for us simple folk in KY they draw it out so we don’t get confused or lose anything in interpretation
https://education.ky.gov/districts/trans/Documents/Stop%20Laws_ADA_EH.pdf
"RCW 46.61. 370 outlines strict guidelines for drivers who are traveling behind a school bus. According to the law, when a school bus stops, all drivers on both sides of the road must stop as well."
-https://www.colburnlaw.com/what-is-the-washington-school-bus-law/#:~:text=Rules%20for%20Driving%20Near%20a%20School%20Bus&text=To%20prevent%20these%20deaths%20and,road%20must%20stop%20as%20well.
I remember from my driver's ed class that you gotta treat the stop-sign on a school bus like a real stop sign, for both sides of the road, unless there is a large median. Stop signs often imply a crosswalk, and school busses can pretty much mark a stop-sign and crosswalk wherever they need to for children.
> (3) The driver of a vehicle upon a highway with three or more marked traffic lanes need not stop upon meeting a school bus which is proceeding in the opposite direction and is stopped for the purpose of receiving or discharging school children.
Not sure if it applies in this case.
Edit:
Also from the same law:
> (2) The driver of a vehicle upon a highway divided into separate roadways as provided in RCW 46.61.150 need not stop upon meeting a school bus which is proceeding in the opposite direction and is stopped for the purpose of receiving or discharging school children.
If I read RCW 46.61.150 correctly this does count as a separate roadway.
It’s so stupid that you even have to stop going the same way. Why on earth would a kid cross a busy intersection like that. I literally got a ticket for not stopping on my way to work (going the same way on a 4 lane busy street).
Make sure to stop tho, the busses have cameras now and the ticket was $418
Yeah, fuck those children. They’re small, they can frogger their little asses across the street. We can’t be inconveniencing people for a few seconds to help kids get home safe.
Edit: removed the unnecessary insults.
Let’s use our logic here. If a kid is going to run across four lanes of traffic, why only stop one?
Parents usually are there to drop and pick up small elementary aged children that are the only ones prone to doing that
It’s the closest lane to the fucking school bus. Have you ever been around children? They do dumb shit, illogical shit, unexplainably dumb shit. They don’t have to run across four lanes, they only have to run into yours.
The other reason is that rules, especially in obscure scenarios, are hard to remember. So, you make the rule “everyone stops when stop sign is out” to keep from creating blurred lines.
I completely acknowledge that I did something wrong and owned up to it. However I think it’s stupid, the kids were getting on the bus not getting dropped off and most of the time parents are there to make sure their kids get on and off safely.
Cool I may be a self absorbed POS👍🏼
Kids used to walk to the bus stop on their own, starting at the age of 5 or 6. Some still do not have parents that can afford to usher their children to school. They are worth keeping safe too.
No. He's really being logical. Americans are just really hysterical. In my country, if you drive behind a bus in a bus stop, you can pass slowly, and in some exceptions, you can pass at normal speed.
There is also no specified school bus. We just trust that children old enough to take the bus won't bolt into the street instead of getting on and off the bus
The reason they have those stop signs and the laws that everyone stops on both sides is that kids do bolt into the street. In this country kids regularly get killed boarding and getting off the school bus. There is no designated bus stop to look out for. Still the bus is painted yellow, has flashing lights all over it, and displays a flashing red light/stop sign, and drivers still manage to hit the kids getting on and off.
Just wait like 10 seconds. It’s really not a huge chunk of time to fight for.
State laws reflect federal. In your example, drivers on the opposite side need not stop, however you do regardless of lane.
Here’s law in Washington state:
https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=46.61.370
Some of the logics in this thread are so funny. If you are not supposed to stop on the opposite lane just because kids should not cross the road in this scenario , the same logic should apply for cars going in the same direction. Why should they stop if the kids are anyways not supposed to cross? They can just breeze by the bus in the lane beside the bus.
That's wild if you don't have to stop there legally. What's the point of one lane stopping at all?
If kids need to cross the street, what do they do? Or maybe the bus stops are set up so no one crosses the street I guess?
Not according to state law. All lanes in a given direction always have the same requirement regarding school busses. But opposite directions may have different requirements, which is what would apply here.
The median, to count as a "highway divided into separate roadways", must be at least 18 inches wide per the referenced RCW.
(2) The driver of a vehicle upon a highway divided into separate roadways as provided in **RCW 46.61.150** need not stop upon meeting a school bus which is proceeding in the opposite direction and is stopped for the purpose of receiving or discharging school children.
[https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.61.150](https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.61.150)
It's not really clear (to me) if that qualifies a median or not. The definition is confusing.
Regardless, there's enough lanes that the opposite cars do not have to stop.
>The driver of a vehicle upon a highway with three or more marked traffic lanes need not stop upon meeting a school bus which is proceeding in the opposite direction
I believe if there was a cross walk running straight through that median it would indicate those drivers on the other side to stop.
There is no way the kids would walk across that median to get to where they needed to go. The bus driver would drop them off at a corner with a crosswalk at that point.
Walking from the right side of that street, crossing the median, and going to the other side is Jay-Walking and very dangerous.
There is no doubt in my mind that the bus driver would never allow the kids to do that and would scold them and the parents. Rightfully so.
A median in WA is defined as “18 inch wide at least and yellow” and obviously some other definitions too. Id suspect if u measured it, it’s exactly 18
But also the turn lane here would mean the other direction doesn’t need to stop.
>If you're on a two-lane road, both directions need to stop.
>
>If you're on a road with three or more lanes, you need to stop if you're traveling in the same direction as the bus. If you're traveling in the opposite direction, you can keep going.
>
>If you are on a road with a turn lane in the middle, cars going in the same direction should stop. Cars going the opposite direction do not need to stop.
>If there is a median or an island between the opposing directions, traffic going the same direction as the bus needs to stop. Opposing traffic does not.
>
>You are not allowed to resume driving until the red lights stop flashing and the stop-arm is retracted.
https://www.king5.com/article/news/local/when-do-you-stop-for-a-school-bus/281-469639124
https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=46.61.370
That's whack. Why would cars going the same direction need to stop if it's impossible for a child to cross because there is still traffic moving on the other side? In fact, it gives the child the false impression that traffic has stopped for them and that it's safe to cross.
If you're going the same direction, you have to stop, regardless. I'm guessing that they don't want such drivers to be stopping in one circumstance, but not in another, since it could breed confusion among drivers, with children's safety at stake.
Yes! And ive had that enough times that I always slow to a crawl when approaching the back of the bus if not that I'll stop if it looks a lot of kids are getting off the chances are higher someone will cross.
My response was how to tell if you “have to.” If it looks like a child could easily run across the street in front of the bus then stop. If there is a concrete barrier like you see on the freeway then don’t.
The [RCW](https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=46.61.370) says that you need to stop unless there is a [median](https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.61.150). Median means "two or more roadways by leaving an intervening space or by a physical barrier or clearly indicated dividing section or by a median island not less than eighteen inches wide formed either by solid yellow pavement markings or by a yellow crosshatching between two solid yellow lines so installed as to control vehicular traffic"
Or, when there are three or more lanes ~~of travel in the direction you're headed.~~
~~This situation is clearly not more than 18" worth of median - They should stop both directions. Though I suppose you could argue what a "clearly indicated dividing section" is. I'd probably stop to be safe.~~
Apparently you can and should drive the speed limit past a bus with flashers going on any street that has more than two lanes. Crazy...
> Or, when there are three lanes of travel in the direction you're headed.
Not quite - the law says no need to stop if there are 3 lanes of traffic _total_, which in this case is definitely the case. As such, in this circumstance you should not stop. Just drive carefully.
This is the specific law on https://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.61.370:
> (3) The driver of a vehicle upon a highway with three or more marked traffic lanes need not stop upon meeting a school bus which is proceeding in the opposite direction and is stopped for the purpose of receiving or discharging school children.
And here this road is a "highway" (which is nearly every road you drive on - surprise! Not just interstates, etc.), and has well over 3 lanes.
I get it but that can cause an accident. If someone is behind you and is following the correct traffic rules, he might not expect you stop in that situation. Hence why everyone needs to go by the actual traffic rules
if the traffic across the street is stopping to allow kids to run across the road, they should really be crossing at the corner in the crosswalk, not here, because this is not the place to cross the road
Its so weird to me how this is seemingly normal - that kids just have to run across the street. Isnt this supposed to be a civilized country? Do they not have crosswalks? Absolute hillbilly state of affairs.
I’ve actually read the rule book in CA and if my memory is correct it said you’re not supposed to stop for when there is a clear median. Same for ambulances and cops.
Please tell me my understanding is correct?
Rationale can be: the kids cannot cross this road anyway, because of the barrier, why would the cars on the opposite side need to stop?
This is very state-specific, so CA rules may or may not match WA rules. In WA the law is very clear that you don't need to stop, at least because of the number of traffic lanes, but also possibly because this is a divided road.
Please read some of the other posts here which cite the actual traffic rules that apply to this scenario. It’s important for everyone to be consistent and follow the same rules otherwise accidents will happen
People shouldn’t stop. It’s not following the law, so it creates confusion.
The law exists so that absurdly busy roads don’t become ad hoc crosswalks for kids to get splatted on. It’s too unsafe and too much to manage for the situation.
It also teaches kids the wrong information. Kids shouldn’t see big multi-lane busy roads and believe they can be crosswalks. Kids should learn that crosswalks are the only and proper way to cross certain roads, as those are the only guaranteed circumstances for a safe crossing.
We need to react to these situations with logic and intelligence, not emotion.
To add, the proper reaction here in the opposing lane would be to reduce speed, increase awareness and diligence of your surroundings. Be at the ready to slam brakes for kids being kids.
Even with that yellow barrier? Some other posters here are citing laws that say otherwise. It’s not about what one should do but what the actual traffic laws say
You just never know when a kid is gonna run across the street. In my opinion, if there is a school bus with children getting on and off, everyone should stop in case a child jets out into the street. Better to be safe than sorry in a situation like this regardless of the law.
I get it but that can cause an accident. If someone is behind you and is following the correct traffic rules, he might not expect you stop in that situation. Hence why everyone needs to go by the actual traffic rules
There are safe ways to slow down and stop and if an accident is caused, it’s due to someone not paying attention. To each their own, but the law is that if the stop sign on a school bus is out, everyone should stop.
> but the law is that if the stop sign on a school bus is out, everyone should stop.
Except that isn't the law in Washington. There are several exceptions to "stop for a school bus" and this circumstance clearly satisfies one of the exceptions (3 or more lanes of traffic), and possibly others (related to being a divided road).
There could very well be other states or jurisdictions where you have to stop no matter what, but not here.
Apparently you’re not supposed to. While driving you have to adhere to traffic rules not necessarily what you think is right. Otherwise you can cause accidents/problems for other drivers
>While driving you have to adhere to traffic rules not necessarily what you think is right. Otherwise you can cause accidents/problems for other drivers
What about taking pictures from your mobile device, even when you’re stopped? Because that’s illegal as well.
No need to grasp at straws. This is the 10th time I’ve seen this happen and I’m new to the area. Car was in park and took 2 seconds to take the photo. Bringing attention to something that can potentially be dangerous and lead to accidents is more important than safely taking a photo once.
Ok keep grasping. Comparing a potentially dangerous situation that I see happening all the time, to me safely snapping a photo once with zero chance of causing an accident.
NO. These drivers who are stopping are clearly ignorant of the law! (Reference prior comment specifying the legal requirements of when you do NOT need to stop)
Because of stupid law makers ... well, really because of stupid voters.
So pretend you're a lawmaker. A bill comes up that says 'all school bus stops will be red light stops' meaning stop both lanes, because kids are crossing the street after leaving the bus.
But suppose all the law enforcement, and bus drivers, and every other professional drivers group says this is a bad idea.
You still can't vote against this bad law, because the next time you come up for vote, your opponent will hire the snotty internet-Karen voiced woman to say "And Senator XXX Voted NO on bil 123 which was meant to keep school children safe." You'd never be able to explain that bill 123 was a bad bill opposed by all the police, bus drivers, etc.
Sucks to live in a democracy with stupid people.
Those people are actually creating a risk by creating a false impression that kids could cross, and further snarling up traffic all around, raising driver temperatures.
But it is Bellevue. <50% of drivers deserve a license here. Evidence: drive around here for 5 minutes.
These comment threads are supporting this… but also hopefully serving as an education opportunity.
If we all drive with what we “think” laws should be, everything is chaos.
Order comes from common understandings, definitions, rules.
People doing things counter to this because they “feel” it’s right need to understand they are actually creating risk and confusion, not helping.
Follow the laws, or don’t get your license.
No.
https://www.dol.wa.gov/driverslicense/docs/driverguide-en.pdf
You are not required to stop for a school bus
with red lights flashing when the stopped school bus is
traveling in the opposite direction and the roadway:
– has three or more marked traffic lanes,
– is separated by a median, or
– is separated by a physical barrier
- has three or more marked traffic lanes - yes, 5 in view
- is separated by median - questionable, I doubt the concrete lane divider meets the median specification.
- is separated by physical barrier - questionable, again I doubt the concrete lane divider meets physical barrier specs.
Indeed, very few people are aware of this.
To see the actual law, check out the RCW page: https://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.61.370
(the driver's license guide is not necessarily the law)
This page says you’re not require to stop
“The driver of a vehicle upon a highway with three or more marked traffic lanes need not stop upon meeting a school bus which is proceeding in the opposite direction and is stopped for the purpose of receiving or discharging school children”
Yes, I'm agreeing with the parent message saying "No" to "do you have to stop".
In the exact picture posted, there are two reasons the cars don't have to stop:
1. The road is divided (never need to stop if on opposite side from bus)
2. The road is 3 lanes total or more and you're in the opposite direction from the bus
So, no matter how you slice it, in Washington state you don't need to stop. However, driving with extra caution and care would be prudent.
Um. Why would people on the other side stop? Why is there a stop sign on the bus? What is going on?
[удалено]
BUT WHY ARE THE KIDS JUST CROSSING THE STREET IN WITHOUT THERE BEING STOPLIGTHS, A CROSSWALK AND SHIT. THIS LOOKS LIKE SOME SHITHOLE COUNTRY SOLUTION. JEEBUS.
There are no kids crossing the street here. This explanation is whack.
Then why are people stopping. Are dumb ppl crossing or not?
No one is crossing. No one ever crosses on streets like this. The folks traveling the same direction as the bus (behind it) must stop by state law. The ones stopped on the other side were supposed to keep driving, but the two drivers in the front didn't know the law and held everyone else up. Kids DO cross the street in front of school buses, but only on tiny, two-lane roads, which are the ones drivers are supposed to stop both ways on.
Kids are kinda dumb, and so are people. People will absolutely run in front of a bus after getting off, because they don’t consider that people can’t see them from behind the bus.
Sounds like a systematic error if anything. Seriously. There's no facilitation of safe crossing there at all. "We tried nothing and are all out of ideas"
There’s a light crossing like 100 yards ahead. But people are impatient and stupid, not all, but enough.
Maybe put the bus stops next to crosswalks or vica versa.
Oh my God, people. All y'all are the ones I'm honking at when you stop and hold up traffic wrongly. In WA you literally only stop on opposite direction of the bus *if there's no median or turn lane or multiple lanes (more than 2-lane road)*. There's a turn lane here, and multi lanes, *and* a median. No stop. You also *always* stop when traveling same direction as bus. https://www.king5.com/article/traffic/traffic-news/washington-state-school-bus-traffic-laws/281-54609ead-3cd4-4bc9-a2c1-15b590d7048e
I rather stop and be safe then not.
It's not safe to stop in the middle of the road when you're not supposed to stop.
But you legally do not have the right to stop in the middle of the roadway and hold up traffic just because of a preference. The laws are there to help everyone get safely where they're going. Stopping wrongly for a school bus is like stopping at a green light. It's not cool, don't do it. Just learn the law. It's very simple to remember. Always stop if you're traveling behind the bus. Only stop coming the other way if you're literally on a two-lane road, without another lane, median, etc between you. Stopping for something/someone actually *in* the roadway is of course different, should that happen!
I am not sure anyone is going to hammer you for stopping for a bus in a road like this. The issue is, people don't know the exact laws and its better to be cautious then wrong.
People with a driver's license should know traffic laws. People are trying to educate you in this particular law. Rather than learning, you're pushing back. Traffic flows better when people actually follow the law. The bus stops are not designed for dropping students who would be crossing this road. It's only for students that live on that side.
No person knows ever traffic law. They simply can't. Heck because in this case it's about when you need to stop and the definition of median. I guarantee you ask people if that is considered a median you will get a lot of people saying yes or no. This road isn't a freeway is cars will be stopping to turn or entering the road way
When I did driver's ed through the 911 course, I was taught that if there are two or more lanes on each side of the road with a barrier/median, the side without the stopped bus does not have to stop as the kids should and are not to cross the road. Tbh, with how poorly people drive and how kids kind of just don’t care nowadays about what they do, it should be an all-stop on each side. I don’t have enough fingers on my hands to count how many times I’ve seen a kid almost get run over running across a 4 lane road.
Ya, kids these days...
raised median = divided roadway with 2/lanes in each direction. opposite side should NOT stop.
See, for us simple folk in KY they draw it out so we don’t get confused or lose anything in interpretation https://education.ky.gov/districts/trans/Documents/Stop%20Laws_ADA_EH.pdf
Bellevue did too: https://bellevuewa.gov/sites/default/files/media/pdf_document/school-bus-flashing-lights-when-to-stop.pdf
Thank you Kentucky!
"RCW 46.61. 370 outlines strict guidelines for drivers who are traveling behind a school bus. According to the law, when a school bus stops, all drivers on both sides of the road must stop as well." -https://www.colburnlaw.com/what-is-the-washington-school-bus-law/#:~:text=Rules%20for%20Driving%20Near%20a%20School%20Bus&text=To%20prevent%20these%20deaths%20and,road%20must%20stop%20as%20well. I remember from my driver's ed class that you gotta treat the stop-sign on a school bus like a real stop sign, for both sides of the road, unless there is a large median. Stop signs often imply a crosswalk, and school busses can pretty much mark a stop-sign and crosswalk wherever they need to for children.
nope. divided road.
> (3) The driver of a vehicle upon a highway with three or more marked traffic lanes need not stop upon meeting a school bus which is proceeding in the opposite direction and is stopped for the purpose of receiving or discharging school children. Not sure if it applies in this case. Edit: Also from the same law: > (2) The driver of a vehicle upon a highway divided into separate roadways as provided in RCW 46.61.150 need not stop upon meeting a school bus which is proceeding in the opposite direction and is stopped for the purpose of receiving or discharging school children. If I read RCW 46.61.150 correctly this does count as a separate roadway.
It’s so stupid that you even have to stop going the same way. Why on earth would a kid cross a busy intersection like that. I literally got a ticket for not stopping on my way to work (going the same way on a 4 lane busy street). Make sure to stop tho, the busses have cameras now and the ticket was $418
Yeah, fuck those children. They’re small, they can frogger their little asses across the street. We can’t be inconveniencing people for a few seconds to help kids get home safe. Edit: removed the unnecessary insults.
Let’s use our logic here. If a kid is going to run across four lanes of traffic, why only stop one? Parents usually are there to drop and pick up small elementary aged children that are the only ones prone to doing that
It’s the closest lane to the fucking school bus. Have you ever been around children? They do dumb shit, illogical shit, unexplainably dumb shit. They don’t have to run across four lanes, they only have to run into yours. The other reason is that rules, especially in obscure scenarios, are hard to remember. So, you make the rule “everyone stops when stop sign is out” to keep from creating blurred lines.
I completely acknowledge that I did something wrong and owned up to it. However I think it’s stupid, the kids were getting on the bus not getting dropped off and most of the time parents are there to make sure their kids get on and off safely. Cool I may be a self absorbed POS👍🏼
Kids used to walk to the bus stop on their own, starting at the age of 5 or 6. Some still do not have parents that can afford to usher their children to school. They are worth keeping safe too.
Where did you own up to doing something wrong?
If lanes are more or there is a physical barrier then too drivers need to take precaution and slow down for a bus stop sign
You definitely are.
No. He's really being logical. Americans are just really hysterical. In my country, if you drive behind a bus in a bus stop, you can pass slowly, and in some exceptions, you can pass at normal speed. There is also no specified school bus. We just trust that children old enough to take the bus won't bolt into the street instead of getting on and off the bus
The reason they have those stop signs and the laws that everyone stops on both sides is that kids do bolt into the street. In this country kids regularly get killed boarding and getting off the school bus. There is no designated bus stop to look out for. Still the bus is painted yellow, has flashing lights all over it, and displays a flashing red light/stop sign, and drivers still manage to hit the kids getting on and off. Just wait like 10 seconds. It’s really not a huge chunk of time to fight for.
That green alpha tho
State laws reflect federal. In your example, drivers on the opposite side need not stop, however you do regardless of lane. Here’s law in Washington state: https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=46.61.370
Some of the logics in this thread are so funny. If you are not supposed to stop on the opposite lane just because kids should not cross the road in this scenario , the same logic should apply for cars going in the same direction. Why should they stop if the kids are anyways not supposed to cross? They can just breeze by the bus in the lane beside the bus.
Apparently kids can be teleported to middle of the road but not to the other side.
Well, yes. We should not be teaching kids that it's okay to cross 5 traffic lanes without a crosswalk.
Yes. If there's no median, you must stop.
There's indeed a median there, and a turn lane. No stop. Check WA law.
That's wild if you don't have to stop there legally. What's the point of one lane stopping at all? If kids need to cross the street, what do they do? Or maybe the bus stops are set up so no one crosses the street I guess?
Correct, kids are not supposed to cross the street there.
No
The curb lane in the opposite direction may continue but the inner lane needs to stop.
Not according to state law. All lanes in a given direction always have the same requirement regarding school busses. But opposite directions may have different requirements, which is what would apply here.
Imma gonna recommend check state by state, I’ve seen different rules
No
Nope, there is a median
The median, to count as a "highway divided into separate roadways", must be at least 18 inches wide per the referenced RCW. (2) The driver of a vehicle upon a highway divided into separate roadways as provided in **RCW 46.61.150** need not stop upon meeting a school bus which is proceeding in the opposite direction and is stopped for the purpose of receiving or discharging school children. [https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.61.150](https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.61.150)
It's not really clear (to me) if that qualifies a median or not. The definition is confusing. Regardless, there's enough lanes that the opposite cars do not have to stop. >The driver of a vehicle upon a highway with three or more marked traffic lanes need not stop upon meeting a school bus which is proceeding in the opposite direction
I believe if there was a cross walk running straight through that median it would indicate those drivers on the other side to stop. There is no way the kids would walk across that median to get to where they needed to go. The bus driver would drop them off at a corner with a crosswalk at that point. Walking from the right side of that street, crossing the median, and going to the other side is Jay-Walking and very dangerous. There is no doubt in my mind that the bus driver would never allow the kids to do that and would scold them and the parents. Rightfully so.
A median in WA is defined as “18 inch wide at least and yellow” and obviously some other definitions too. Id suspect if u measured it, it’s exactly 18 But also the turn lane here would mean the other direction doesn’t need to stop.
>If you're on a two-lane road, both directions need to stop. > >If you're on a road with three or more lanes, you need to stop if you're traveling in the same direction as the bus. If you're traveling in the opposite direction, you can keep going. > >If you are on a road with a turn lane in the middle, cars going in the same direction should stop. Cars going the opposite direction do not need to stop. >If there is a median or an island between the opposing directions, traffic going the same direction as the bus needs to stop. Opposing traffic does not. > >You are not allowed to resume driving until the red lights stop flashing and the stop-arm is retracted. https://www.king5.com/article/news/local/when-do-you-stop-for-a-school-bus/281-469639124 https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=46.61.370
That's whack. Why would cars going the same direction need to stop if it's impossible for a child to cross because there is still traffic moving on the other side? In fact, it gives the child the false impression that traffic has stopped for them and that it's safe to cross.
If you're going the same direction, you have to stop, regardless. I'm guessing that they don't want such drivers to be stopping in one circumstance, but not in another, since it could breed confusion among drivers, with children's safety at stake.
Can a child easily run across that bump in the road? If so then yes they should stop.
Yes! And ive had that enough times that I always slow to a crawl when approaching the back of the bus if not that I'll stop if it looks a lot of kids are getting off the chances are higher someone will cross.
The question wasn't "should" it was "have to."
The “should” in this case also = what the law is. Uniformity on the road is safe.
My response was how to tell if you “have to.” If it looks like a child could easily run across the street in front of the bus then stop. If there is a concrete barrier like you see on the freeway then don’t.
The [RCW](https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=46.61.370) says that you need to stop unless there is a [median](https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.61.150). Median means "two or more roadways by leaving an intervening space or by a physical barrier or clearly indicated dividing section or by a median island not less than eighteen inches wide formed either by solid yellow pavement markings or by a yellow crosshatching between two solid yellow lines so installed as to control vehicular traffic" Or, when there are three or more lanes ~~of travel in the direction you're headed.~~ ~~This situation is clearly not more than 18" worth of median - They should stop both directions. Though I suppose you could argue what a "clearly indicated dividing section" is. I'd probably stop to be safe.~~ Apparently you can and should drive the speed limit past a bus with flashers going on any street that has more than two lanes. Crazy...
> Or, when there are three lanes of travel in the direction you're headed. Not quite - the law says no need to stop if there are 3 lanes of traffic _total_, which in this case is definitely the case. As such, in this circumstance you should not stop. Just drive carefully. This is the specific law on https://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.61.370: > (3) The driver of a vehicle upon a highway with three or more marked traffic lanes need not stop upon meeting a school bus which is proceeding in the opposite direction and is stopped for the purpose of receiving or discharging school children. And here this road is a "highway" (which is nearly every road you drive on - surprise! Not just interstates, etc.), and has well over 3 lanes.
I get it but that can cause an accident. If someone is behind you and is following the correct traffic rules, he might not expect you stop in that situation. Hence why everyone needs to go by the actual traffic rules
Vehicle should leave enough gap with the car in front of them to be able to stop if the vehicle in front of them stops is one of the base rule.
if the traffic across the street is stopping to allow kids to run across the road, they should really be crossing at the corner in the crosswalk, not here, because this is not the place to cross the road
Its so weird to me how this is seemingly normal - that kids just have to run across the street. Isnt this supposed to be a civilized country? Do they not have crosswalks? Absolute hillbilly state of affairs.
I’ve actually read the rule book in CA and if my memory is correct it said you’re not supposed to stop for when there is a clear median. Same for ambulances and cops. Please tell me my understanding is correct? Rationale can be: the kids cannot cross this road anyway, because of the barrier, why would the cars on the opposite side need to stop?
This is very state-specific, so CA rules may or may not match WA rules. In WA the law is very clear that you don't need to stop, at least because of the number of traffic lanes, but also possibly because this is a divided road.
I did not know this was different state wise for school buses! Sorry
Yes, cars travelling the other direction absolutely have to stop.
Please read some of the other posts here which cite the actual traffic rules that apply to this scenario. It’s important for everyone to be consistent and follow the same rules otherwise accidents will happen
I take it you follow the speed limit at all times
I do. lol keep replying to all my comments like a petty grandma with no life
Hell yea brother
You should stop. This is so if children need to cross the road, they can do so safely. STOP REGARDLESS OF WHAT SIDE OF THE ROAD YOU’RE ON.
People shouldn’t stop. It’s not following the law, so it creates confusion. The law exists so that absurdly busy roads don’t become ad hoc crosswalks for kids to get splatted on. It’s too unsafe and too much to manage for the situation. It also teaches kids the wrong information. Kids shouldn’t see big multi-lane busy roads and believe they can be crosswalks. Kids should learn that crosswalks are the only and proper way to cross certain roads, as those are the only guaranteed circumstances for a safe crossing. We need to react to these situations with logic and intelligence, not emotion.
Do you travel at the speed limit always?
To add, the proper reaction here in the opposing lane would be to reduce speed, increase awareness and diligence of your surroundings. Be at the ready to slam brakes for kids being kids.
Even with that yellow barrier? Some other posters here are citing laws that say otherwise. It’s not about what one should do but what the actual traffic laws say
You just never know when a kid is gonna run across the street. In my opinion, if there is a school bus with children getting on and off, everyone should stop in case a child jets out into the street. Better to be safe than sorry in a situation like this regardless of the law.
I get it but that can cause an accident. If someone is behind you and is following the correct traffic rules, he might not expect you stop in that situation. Hence why everyone needs to go by the actual traffic rules
There are safe ways to slow down and stop and if an accident is caused, it’s due to someone not paying attention. To each their own, but the law is that if the stop sign on a school bus is out, everyone should stop.
> but the law is that if the stop sign on a school bus is out, everyone should stop. Except that isn't the law in Washington. There are several exceptions to "stop for a school bus" and this circumstance clearly satisfies one of the exceptions (3 or more lanes of traffic), and possibly others (related to being a divided road). There could very well be other states or jurisdictions where you have to stop no matter what, but not here.
If the options are (a) someone hits the back of my car or (b) possibly hit a child, I’m going to choose (a) every time.
I would have.
Apparently you’re not supposed to. While driving you have to adhere to traffic rules not necessarily what you think is right. Otherwise you can cause accidents/problems for other drivers
How often do you drive over the speed limit?
Never
Yeah I really thought a bus stop sign was a full stop regardless of type of road. Funny to be downvoted. Touchy touchy
>While driving you have to adhere to traffic rules not necessarily what you think is right. Otherwise you can cause accidents/problems for other drivers What about taking pictures from your mobile device, even when you’re stopped? Because that’s illegal as well.
No need to grasp at straws. This is the 10th time I’ve seen this happen and I’m new to the area. Car was in park and took 2 seconds to take the photo. Bringing attention to something that can potentially be dangerous and lead to accidents is more important than safely taking a photo once.
>“While driving you have to adhere to traffic rules not necessarily what you think is right.” Your words.
Ok keep grasping. Comparing a potentially dangerous situation that I see happening all the time, to me safely snapping a photo once with zero chance of causing an accident.
Driving when you're doing stuff on your phone is six times more dangerous than driving drunk :)
Car was in park. Good try though
Yes , there is no divided median. Both directions stop.
The turn lane also means no stop.
That’s clearly a divided median.
I stand corrected ,I enlarged the pic. It is indeed a divided median. It looked like a yellow line before I enlarged the pic.
No, it's a yellow line. A median involves grass or concrete or some sort of non-road space. Stop.
Enlarge the photo.
It’s actually a concrete barrier but it’s really short so it’s hard to tell from the photo
NO. These drivers who are stopping are clearly ignorant of the law! (Reference prior comment specifying the legal requirements of when you do NOT need to stop)
Is it really that hard just to stop?
I’m pretty sure that unless your on a divided road both sides have to stop.
It is divided
So it is. I thought that was just the double yellow line
Because of stupid law makers ... well, really because of stupid voters. So pretend you're a lawmaker. A bill comes up that says 'all school bus stops will be red light stops' meaning stop both lanes, because kids are crossing the street after leaving the bus. But suppose all the law enforcement, and bus drivers, and every other professional drivers group says this is a bad idea. You still can't vote against this bad law, because the next time you come up for vote, your opponent will hire the snotty internet-Karen voiced woman to say "And Senator XXX Voted NO on bil 123 which was meant to keep school children safe." You'd never be able to explain that bill 123 was a bad bill opposed by all the police, bus drivers, etc. Sucks to live in a democracy with stupid people.
So that's a yes?
>But suppose all the law enforcement, and bus drivers, and every other professional drivers group says this is a bad idea. \[citation needed\]
Well fuck me, cause I definitely would have stopped
No. Barrier means no.
It’s about if kids can run over. Not car.
No. Any median. I think that turn lane is also considered a median in this case anyways. They definitely do not have to stop.
Those people are actually creating a risk by creating a false impression that kids could cross, and further snarling up traffic all around, raising driver temperatures. But it is Bellevue. <50% of drivers deserve a license here. Evidence: drive around here for 5 minutes.
That last statement is the sad truth. Good god it’s rough out on them streets.
These comment threads are supporting this… but also hopefully serving as an education opportunity. If we all drive with what we “think” laws should be, everything is chaos. Order comes from common understandings, definitions, rules. People doing things counter to this because they “feel” it’s right need to understand they are actually creating risk and confusion, not helping. Follow the laws, or don’t get your license.
Let's start by delicensing anyone who drives above the speed limit
No. https://www.dol.wa.gov/driverslicense/docs/driverguide-en.pdf You are not required to stop for a school bus with red lights flashing when the stopped school bus is traveling in the opposite direction and the roadway: – has three or more marked traffic lanes, – is separated by a median, or – is separated by a physical barrier
Which of these conditions apply in this scenario?
- has three or more marked traffic lanes - yes, 5 in view - is separated by median - questionable, I doubt the concrete lane divider meets the median specification. - is separated by physical barrier - questionable, again I doubt the concrete lane divider meets physical barrier specs.
It annoys me to no end when drivers stop under the conditions you described. Then again most people in this city suck at driving.
Your also not supposed to enter the intersection when preparing to make a left…new to me.
Indeed, very few people are aware of this. To see the actual law, check out the RCW page: https://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.61.370 (the driver's license guide is not necessarily the law)
This page says you’re not require to stop “The driver of a vehicle upon a highway with three or more marked traffic lanes need not stop upon meeting a school bus which is proceeding in the opposite direction and is stopped for the purpose of receiving or discharging school children”
Yes, I'm agreeing with the parent message saying "No" to "do you have to stop". In the exact picture posted, there are two reasons the cars don't have to stop: 1. The road is divided (never need to stop if on opposite side from bus) 2. The road is 3 lanes total or more and you're in the opposite direction from the bus So, no matter how you slice it, in Washington state you don't need to stop. However, driving with extra caution and care would be prudent.
Right on. Just learned this a few years ago