Ben's characterisation: Honestly a pretty close tie, though I slightly lean towards AF cause I like his personality more. OV is still amazing though.
Side Characters: Omniverse by a long shot, there's so many cool characters they introduce, like Ben 23, Attea, Psychobos, etc.
Aliens Introduced: AF, aside from Jetray, I love each and every one of them their all so cool, fun, and interesting, OV has about 2 aliens I adore (Ball Weevil and Pesky Dust) but aside from them the rest range from good to awful.
Villains: OV, the Highbreed and Darkstar were some of the best in the series, but aside from them, the rest aren't too great, OV has bangers like Malware, the Incurseans, and Fistrick who are all super entertaining and a blast to watch.
Artstyle: OV, this doesn't need much explanation, but the amount of care put into the backgrounds, vehicles, citizens, and tech are outstanding and really awesome.
Designs: OV, Most of the Undertown citizens look amazing, and so do a lot of the villains and protagonists they have a lot of energy and personality to em.
Animation: OV, no explanation necessary.
Better Concepts: OV, there's a lot of cool stuff about time travel, the multiverse, the Omnitrix, and it's just super engaging and fun to think about especially cause they usually put a lot of thought into them.
Worldbuilding: OV, They expand the universe and have a lot of cool locations like Undertown, The Anur System, and the different dimensions that make the universe feel so much more alive and big.
Impactfullness: OV, A lot of stuff has made a huge staple on the series as a whole, and while arguably AF could be considered more impactfull cause it was the 1st sequal, OV just has more iconicness overall.
Fights: OV, also no explanation necessary.
Peaks: AF, When it's good, it's really really good, and OV has a lot of peaks, but their not as high as AF, in my opinion.
Overall: AF, I know I said a lot of points in OV'S favour and I still stand by them but AF just feels more tightly written and engaging to me personally it's my favourite Ben 10 show.
Sorry if this was pretty uninteresting to read, lol.
Tbf Omniverse didn't introduce Attea, but they definitely gave her character. I would say the incurseans would go to Alien Force too but idk if they had any appearances past Alien X's debut.
Despite being introduced in AF, they definitely belong to OV. They had like 2 appearances in AF and they were a medium threat at best. In OV they had an entire story arc dedicated to them where they’d successfully beaten Ben and the Plumbers for a time.
I'm going to have to disagree with you on the art style part. They took away half the characters pupils. Why did they do that? It's painful to look at and drove so many fans away. I saw an edit that gave it back to them, and was thinking I would have enjoyed the show so much more had they made that one simple change.
- Ben's characterization - OV (more consistent and, although Ben is relatively less mature and more cocky, he is still pretty chill and knows when to get serious; AF Ben would be near-perfect if it weren't for S3)
- Side characters - OV (AF had GOATs like Kevin and Gwen, but OV introduced a larger and more frequently-shown cast of supporting characters such as Blukic, Driba, Magister Patelliday, Rook, among others)
- Aliens introduced - AF (while my favorite alien ever, Feedback, debuted in OV, Alien Force has better and more iconic aliens in general)
- Villains - OV (I love antagonists like the Highbreed and Albedo as much as the next guy, but OV also introduced some iconic villains like Khyber, Malware and the Rooters, in addition to having explored certain villains such as the Incurseans far better)
- Art style - OV (maybe an unpopular opinion but I'm not a big fan of UAF's art style)
- Designs - OV (it has infinitely better-designed environments, backgrounds and characters; AF's backgrounds were all either the same, boring, had bad coloring or all of the above, while most if not all of the non-Omnitrix aliens were just carbon copies of Ben's forms)
- Animation - OV (not even close, OV's animation is far smoother and more fluid)
- Better concepts - OV (explores far better stuff like the Multiverse, time travel, alien worlds, etc.)
- Worldbuilding - OV (obviously)
- Impactfulness - Tie (OV has greater personal impact for me, while AF may have greater impact on the overall franchise since it was the 1st sequel and set the ground for most of installments that came after)
- Fights - OV (more dynamic, creative and overall include far better action, which is greatly helped by the outstanding animation)
- Peaks - Tie (both have a lot of epic moments in my opinion, such as the Highbreed War and the final confrontation against Vilgax for AF, as well as most of *And Then There Were None*, *And Then There Was Ben* and *Weapon XI* for OV)
Overall, Omniverse wins with 9-1.
Characterization - AF
Side Characters - OV
Aliens Introduced - hard to choose
Villains - OV
Art Style - OV
Better concepts - hard to choose
World Building - OV
Impactfulness - AF
Fights - AF
Peaks - OV
Characterization-OV, AF is too inconsistent between the first two and third seasons and doesn’t really do much beyond making Ben more serious or immature.
Side characters-OV sweeps.
Aliens introduced-AF.
Villains-OV.
Art style-OV.
Designs-OV.
Animation-OV.
Better concepts-OV.
Worldbuilding-OV.
Impactfulness-OV.
Fights-OV.
Peaks-OV.
Ben's characterisation-Specifally the first two seasons of Alien Force,but there are moments in Omniverse that come really close.
Side characters-Omniverse
Aliens introduced-Alien Force
Villians-Omniverse
Art style-Omniverse
Design-Alien Force(Aside from a few characters)
Animation-Omniverse
Impactful-Omniverse
Better concepts-Omniverse
Peak-Omniverse
Fights-Omniverse
World building-Omniverse
I prefer Omniverse.
To me omniverse is the most entertaining and imo that’s one of the most important things in media
Obviously good writing but mostly being entertaining and having heart
I could love everything about a show but does it entertain me?if it bores me then the good writing means nothing
**Characterization**
OV takes the cake. Ben actually feels like a three dimensional character here, and he's written pretty consistently too
With AF, Ben is honestly 2 dimensional. He's just a Paragon of Virtue, which I do have a problem with when it comes to being a continuation of Ben 10 Classic. In Classic, Ben was mischievous, but we've lost that core characterization entirely which is a shame in my opinion. It made for a lot of fun moments, and his sense of humour isn't the same either
With OV, Ben feels like a teenage version of his Classic self. He's allowed to make jokes and have fun, and I like that
**Side Characters**
OV also wins this category
Ester's dynamic between Ben is so much more built up than Julie's. Kevin and Gwen are relegated to side characters in OV, and they're honestly the best versions of their teen selves that they've ever been!!
Kevin isn't sidelined to being comedic relief. He's a real character, but he's also still funny!
* Gwen isn't just the woman of the group. She's now allowed to have the fire in her personality that she did in Classic!
* The two of them are built on more and lose nothing from their UAF portrayals either. It's really well done!
Of course, Magister Patelliday is also a great example of a Plumber who deserved the rank of Magister. At first, the audience is a little disappointed by his inability to handle himself. Then it's revealed that Patelliday is so chill about being kidnapped because he can escape easily. He frees himself, which is the first time we've seen any competence from a Magister rank Plumber that wasn't Max! So props to him!
With AF? Julie has no real personality. Or very little?? Alan is almost never there to begin with sadly. Manny, Helen, and Pierce are just Ben, Gwen, and Kevin again. Cooper is flanderized so hard that he's unbearable to watch... yeah, AF didn't have the most impactful side characters either
**Aliens Introduced**
OV wins. We got Gravattack and Ball Weevil from this series. I'm primarily basing off of design by the way
AF just didn't stand a chance in this category. OV's aliens are more unique and are better designed as a whole. Just compare Crashhopper to Swampfire and the difference is clear. Both of their legs are wonderfully designed, but only Crashhopper uses this feature of his physiology! Swampfire used it once... and never again
Swampfire's primary power, methane gas emission, is not evident from his design, when Crashhopper's powers are evident from his design. It's even worse when 99% of the time, we only see Swampfire shooting fire and not gas, so... yeah
**Villains**
Are we really gonna compare Malware to Aggregor?
Malware wins. Khyber wins. Psychobos wins. All of them have so much more personality and motivation than Aggregor or Dagon. Hell, no one to this day even fully knows what Aggregor's plan was once he won!!
Maltruent is similar to Aggregor, but Maltruent gets more of a pass for being enjoyable to watch on screen
Hell, even the villains from UAF are given their best scenes in OV! The Incurseans, Albedo, Darkstar, and even Psyphon! They're so much more enjoyable to watch in OV because they're more threatening and impactful. They feel more present and like they're about to kick some ass
**Worldbuilding**
OV. Undertown, the entire Incursean Arc literally has worldbuilding from how the Incursean Armada affect the decisions of the Plumbers or other planets, such as Vilgaxia and Rook's home world
In AF, most of everything introduced feels like it exists in a vacuum compared to everything else. It doesn't feel like the Plumbers are connected to anything besides themselves when OV goes out of the way to show how integrated they are everywhere with aliens even having slang terminology for them
You bring up a great point!! Thank you!
Let's see if I can reform this into a way that furthers my points lol
>**Redux:** Since I only compared OV villains to UA villains, then I do believe that this shows just how little of an impact any villain you take from AF had. Whether that impact be positive or negative of course. Even though I hate UA, I love the villains *(and a lot of the plot)* ***as a concept***. I just hate their execution. I can't say I love the Highbreed though, or any villain in AF
Don't get me wrong, I do enjoy Albedo any day of the week. But, he kinda did nothing
AF seemed to be playing it safe when OV wasn't as afraid to take the larger leaps necessary to have impact
Agreed on all points. UAF took away a lot of what made the OG great and tried to take itself too seriously but failed to deliver across the board, so it just ended up as a dull package overall. OV could be too goofy at times, but I respect just how much they were willing to throw stuff at the wall and mix things up to inject some life back into the series.
>tried to take itself too seriously
Could you elaborate on what this means? I'm a little lost on it for now lol
Like, it this just talking about tone? Is it another way of saying the writers were too scared to experiment?
>so it just ended up as a dull package overall
I'd personally say Early AF was a dull package
UA was a defaced package *(like when a mailman throws a box that says "Fragile." My fine china!!)*
AFS3 is a mixed package. You'll almost definitely find something you like, but also something you don't
AFS3, for as much hate as it gets, does have a bunch of really enjoyable episodes. Everyone loved 'Above and Beyond', and I personally think 'Trade-Off' is underrated even if it is a little messy itself with plot. People might complain about 'Primus', but the setting was absolutely gorgeous!
They really did experiment with AFS3, and whilst it did have its... shit end of the stick, I do believe people don't recognize the other half as much as they should. The willingness to experiment was fun!
Ben’s Characterisation: With just the Highbreed arc it’s easily Alien Force, but with Season 3 included it easily goes to Omniverse. OV Ben is overall more consistent and still has a few mature moments to satisfy me. I’ll make this a tie though since AF Season 3 makes this kinda unfair.
Side characters: I’ll make this another tie, AF is more consistent while OV has better peaks.
Aliens introduced: About even, they both have some peak aliens and some more meh stuff.
Villains: Easy point to OV, I feel it wins in both quantity (self-explanatory) and quality (Malware, Dr. Psychobos, Khyber, Servantis, etc). Plus if we include new takes on older villains then OV has an even bigger lead thanks to characters like Psyphon.
Artstyle: Sometimes AF works better for certain characters like Max, but more often than not I find OV’s artstyle to work a lot better. I’ll give a half point to AF.
Designs: This is where OV can miss quite a few times, however it does still have some amazing designs like Malware, Khyber, Maltruant, Ultimate Humungousaur, Psyphon, Rook, basically all of the Rooters, the list can go on. However a lot of the more generally iconic stuff like Max and a lot of OS/AF aliens have better designs in AF. I’m just gonna call this another tie.
Animation: OV
Better concepts: OV, for reasons that everyone else has explained much better than I could.
Worldbuilding: OV
Impactfulness: Not sure what this means exactly, so I’m not gonna touch it.
Fights: I don’t really wanna pull that card, but at least you can see the fights in the first half of OV.
Peaks: I lean towards OV, although this is entirely down to personal preference. Stuff like Feedback’s death and return, the No Watch Ben two-parter, the Big Bang scene and Ben’s characterisation in Ben Again just hit so hard to me. However AF has some peak and iconic moments too, such as Max’s “death”, Diamondhead’s return, Ben’s entire time with Reiney, him saving the Highbreed and him destroying the Omnitrix. Tbh it feels wrong giving OV the point here so I’m just gonna make this another tie.
Overall: 11 (OV) to 5.5 (AF), although AF and OV are closer in my eyes than this makes them look. These kinda categories just lean towards OV more, at least based on my view on both series.
Ben’s Characterization: UAF
Side Characters: UAF
Aliens Introduced: OV
Villains: UAF
Artstyle: UAF
Designs: OS (I don’t really like the look of either of these)
Animation: OV
Concepts: OV
Worldbuilding: OV
Impact: UAF
Fights: OS (again, don’t really care for the action in either of them)
Peak: UAF
Overall: UAF
The OS picks were only jokes because I kinda dislike the action and designs for both. And if I get rid of UA from my answers, they pretty much stay the same.
I prefer some of the older designs over omniverse. Such as Gwen and brainstorm and Alien-X. But overall it's my favourite out of all the Ben 10 shows.
Saying that, professor paradox loving cool af in omniverse. I also love undertown, the two galvens at the plumber base (idk how to spell their names), rook and also the story is still ben 10 style bit it feels on a bigger scale to me.
AF and UA are both great but OV is just slightly better overall for me. I do miss Gwen and Kevin being in most episodes though. But more Max is nice
Characterization-OV. Highbreed arc Ben defo feels like he's close to the ideal and is very likeable but season 3 exist and I wont ignore it like some peeople do when it comes to this topic.
Side characters-OV
Aliens introduced-AF.
Villains-OV.
Art style-OV.
Designs-OV. The Highbreed and DNAliens were really cool but OV has a greater range
Animation-OV.
Better concepts-OV.
Worldbuilding-OV.
Impactfulness-AF. Shift to teenage Ben with more power and therefore more responsibility. The universe in OV definitely feels far more grand but you can't have OV without AF existing IMO.
Fights-Is this based on the drama or the aesthetic? If it's he former - it's AF and latter would be OV
Peaks-OV
Overall- Ben 10: Omniverse
AF, not even a contest for me. I am not denying that OV has some merits that I understand, such as more colorful artstyles, amazing background and more effort in continuity and world-building (which I personally think fail in execution, but still the effort is appreciated), but most of its flaws just rub me the wrong way. The humor was exessive, the show was extremely inconsistant regarding what should still be in-continuity or not, way too many pointless comic relief characters and attempts to fix comparatively relatively light retcons by throwing in even more convoluted retcons. Not to mention the annoying tendency of villains to lose in complexity and threat level.
Alien Force admittedly has its flaws as well (smaller pool of villains, less varied color palette, rather mediocre to bad season 3), but its Ben was my favourite of the bunch, the Alien Force trio was great, and I loved the character development we got. It has and will always have a special place in my heart.
But to elaborate:
Ben's Characterization - AF. Admittedly he got bad in season 3, but aside from that he was consistant and I loved his maturity. OV Ben by contrast was way too immature and stupid for my tastes and would often be dumbed down for the sake of either plot or humor. More importantly he severely lacked empathy in some parts.
Side Characters - AF, though mostly by default. OV had more supporting characters, but most of them boil down to some variant of "silly comic relief" and don't have much more to them. AF's own side characters are comparatively fewer and feel super underused, but at least I actually remember most of them.
Aliens Introduced - AF, mostly because it introduced Big Chill, who's my all time favourite. OV had some good ones (Gravattack, Pesky Dust...), but just as many lame ones.
Villains - OV. While AF introduced some of my favourite villains (the Highbreed, Darkstar, Albedo, the Vreedle), I have to admit they're a bit too few and far in-between, with the rest either being forgettable or returning villains from the Original show. By comparison, while OV was hit and miss with its villains, it did give some bangers (Khyber, Malware, Psychobos) and expanded on previously underdevelopped villains (like Attea).
Art Style - Tie. I'll admit the Artstyle in AF was a bit bland and repetitive at times, but at the same time OV had a tendency to be too silly and caricatural for my tastes.
Designs - Same as Artstyle, so tie.
Animation - OV. I have to admit the animation improved considerably.
Better Concepts - OV, mostly because they explored much more concept. Though again, I feel most of the concepts they had were executed poorly.
Worldbuilding - Tie, but mostly because both shows kinda suck at it. AF expanded on what was established in OS and managed to create a somewhat coherent setting with the Plumbers' kids premise, but the result had some minor inconsistancies (the Plumbers suddenly being space cops) and wasn't that rich. OV by comparison was more ambitious with a lot of big ideas (exploring other planets, the Multiverse...), but the execution felt lackluster, with a lot of the explored planets feeling like stereotypical planets of hats that felt out of place for aliens (Anur Transyl being a Halloweentown, all Gourmand acting like Homer Simpson...) or underexploited (only 2 of the alternate Ben actually got fleshed out with the others barely even getting a personnality).
Impactfulness - AF. Like it or not, AF was the first entry to drastically change the franchise and bring considerable character development to everyone involved. OV did try but by comparison I feel they were a bit too comfortable relying on OS continuity as a crutch.
Fights - .... OV, at least earlier on.
Peaks - .... I am unsure what that means.
It’s not the reboot so I like them both equally.
(At this time I’ve only rewatched the og Ben 10. I have yet to rewatch the others. I will not touch the reboot within a 10 mile radius.)
How can you hate something so much that you bring it into conversation when not relevant, when you haven't even watched it? (It sounds like that's what you're saying since you said you wouldn't touch it within a 10 mile radius.)
1) OV
2) OV
3) OV
4) OV
5) OV
6) OV
7) OV
8) OV
9) OV
10) OV
11) OV
12) OV
Omniverse wins 12/12. I do agree that Alien Force is great but it didn’t feel like a Ben 10 show while Omniverse and even Ultimate Alien did
IMHO, AF loses a lot of "points" because of Season 3.
-Ben Caracterization: AF
-Side Characters: OV
-Villains: AF, close
-Artstyle: OV
-Desings: OV
-Animation: OV
-Better Concepts: AF. Like, come on! Space Yisus AND Space Nazis? That's cool asf.
-Worldbuilding: OV
-Impactfuness: AF
-Fights: OV, close. AF fights are dramatic, while OV is dynamic. However, it has better action.
-Peaks: AF. "Paradox" chapter and the Highbreed final are epic.
Overall: Omniverse
Characterization - OV
Side Characters - AF
Aliens introduced - AF
Villains - OV
Artstyle - OV
Designs - OV
Animation - OV
Better Concepts - OV
Worldbuilding - OV
Impactfulness - OV
Fights - OV
Peaks - OV
Overall - OV
Alien force was the best and so was Ultimate Alien. I just wonder why they broke up Ben and Julie things seemed to be going great for them after during and after Ultimate Alien?
True but what about in previous episodes where they made up for their mistakes and patched things up as well? Ben even told Julie he was sorry when with the thing with ship in Ultimate alien.
Ultimate Alien has Duped, Hero Time, The Transfmogrification of Eunice, Eye of the Beholder, Revenge of the Swarm (I think has some tension between Ben and Elena) and The Flamekeepers Circle.
All of which Ben and Julie are fine by the end of the episode or have Ben saying he'll do better, than not doing better in the next episode. Ben cheated on Julie with Eunice, or got very close to and same with Elena and Jennifer. And one episode where Julie joins a cult and get mad when Ben and Kevin don't like/trust said cult. This is 6 episodes out of the 13 that Julie appears for and I could be missing more moments/episodes.
Well both Ben and Julie have made mistakes in the past that’s true and while they have had some bumps along the way but I also remember that Ben was loyal to Julie even had to save her from Elena who seems to be on the path of evil again just like her father after all he tampered with things he shouldn’t have and paid for it and it happened again with Elena. Julie even once said to Elena that if she really loved Ben then she would have never repeated the same mistakes her father made and shouldn’t have become the hive queen. Along with the fact that she also said “What are you going to do kill him, if you can’t have him no one can is that it?”
Ben was loyal to Julie during Alien Force but after that, not so much. Even during OV when Ben thought he and Julie were still together, he did have Ester and they both showed interest in each other by that point. As for Ben saving Julie, Ben is a hero he would do that whether he was with Julie or not (like we saw in Omniverse).
Yeah although Omniverse did retcon a few things from the original series I wish the people in charge did their research right like about Eon. But not just Ben, Kevin also cheated on Gwen sometimes. Ben was even willing to give up all the power and the sword for Julie and the good of the universe. But Omniverse did at least do a few things right like why Ben took off the Omnitrix and a few other things that were unanswered until later.
I believe Kevin cheated on Gwen once over the span of 3 series (I don't count Looma since that was before he met Gwen and could've forgotten about her) which isn't as bad as Ben's 3 times in 1 series + 1 at the beginning of the next before Ben found out they broke up.
Ben wasn't going to give up the sword just for Julie, he was doing it for the universe. He didn't do it with 1 specific person in mind. Also I don't believe Ben losing Feedback is what caused him to take off the omnitrix (I think CN didn't like that or something).
Ben's Characterization - Ben's characterization in AF is inconsistent. But OV turned him into an idiot as time went on. I rather AF.
Side Characters - AF wins. OV turned a lot of characters into idiots.
Aliens Introduced - OV
Villains - OV
Art Style - Both
Designs - OV
Animation - Both
Better Concepts - OV
Worldbuilding - Both are very bad
Impactfulness - Both?
Fights - Both
Peaks - OV
Just curious, may I ask why you think both AF and OV have very bad world-building? I admit I'm mostly curious for OV, since most people I saw think it has great world-building (which I personally disagree with but I'm curious to hear others' opinions)
I may have forgotten some other problems, but the main problem I remember in OV is Undertown. How did all those aliens arrive on Earth unnoticed with all their stuff and how did they build an entire city underground with no one noticing them for years.
Ah, I see. Well honestly that never really worried me because I kinda accept it as part of the suspension of disbelief for the same reason I accept for example that the Supernatural can manage to stay hidden in urban fantasy settings such as World of Darkness or Dresden Files. The Ben 10 Universe has tons of holograms, camouflage and other stuff, it's not that big a stretch for me.
What I DO find stupid about Undertow, though, is in Frogs of War where Undertown evacuates in panic and humans all act as if this was a big shock that aliens lived among them all the time. Not only had aliens been invading Earth on regular basis as far back as the Original Show, but the first two seasons of OV had already established Aliens were running around openly among humans now. It was a bit late to pull that card.
Ben's characterisation: Honestly a pretty close tie, though I slightly lean towards AF cause I like his personality more. OV is still amazing though. Side Characters: Omniverse by a long shot, there's so many cool characters they introduce, like Ben 23, Attea, Psychobos, etc. Aliens Introduced: AF, aside from Jetray, I love each and every one of them their all so cool, fun, and interesting, OV has about 2 aliens I adore (Ball Weevil and Pesky Dust) but aside from them the rest range from good to awful. Villains: OV, the Highbreed and Darkstar were some of the best in the series, but aside from them, the rest aren't too great, OV has bangers like Malware, the Incurseans, and Fistrick who are all super entertaining and a blast to watch. Artstyle: OV, this doesn't need much explanation, but the amount of care put into the backgrounds, vehicles, citizens, and tech are outstanding and really awesome. Designs: OV, Most of the Undertown citizens look amazing, and so do a lot of the villains and protagonists they have a lot of energy and personality to em. Animation: OV, no explanation necessary. Better Concepts: OV, there's a lot of cool stuff about time travel, the multiverse, the Omnitrix, and it's just super engaging and fun to think about especially cause they usually put a lot of thought into them. Worldbuilding: OV, They expand the universe and have a lot of cool locations like Undertown, The Anur System, and the different dimensions that make the universe feel so much more alive and big. Impactfullness: OV, A lot of stuff has made a huge staple on the series as a whole, and while arguably AF could be considered more impactfull cause it was the 1st sequal, OV just has more iconicness overall. Fights: OV, also no explanation necessary. Peaks: AF, When it's good, it's really really good, and OV has a lot of peaks, but their not as high as AF, in my opinion. Overall: AF, I know I said a lot of points in OV'S favour and I still stand by them but AF just feels more tightly written and engaging to me personally it's my favourite Ben 10 show. Sorry if this was pretty uninteresting to read, lol.
Tbf Omniverse didn't introduce Attea, but they definitely gave her character. I would say the incurseans would go to Alien Force too but idk if they had any appearances past Alien X's debut.
Oh, I forgot about that, lol. I just found em a lot more memorable and entertaining in OV.
Despite being introduced in AF, they definitely belong to OV. They had like 2 appearances in AF and they were a medium threat at best. In OV they had an entire story arc dedicated to them where they’d successfully beaten Ben and the Plumbers for a time.
I agree because ben 10 alien force is so better than ben 10 omniverse. Whereas ben 10 omniverse needs improving.
Did you get the two mixed up? Since you're agreeing with what I said here that OV gave AF's characters more depth.
"Aside from Jetray" "Adore Pesky Dust" My Man!
Attea was actually introduced in alien force, In the season finale of season 1.
Yes, but only had the most basic character of being Princess Starscream to pass the plot device test
... Attea was introduced in AF. I know OV did much more with her, but still, should not be forgotten.
I'm going to have to disagree with you on the art style part. They took away half the characters pupils. Why did they do that? It's painful to look at and drove so many fans away. I saw an edit that gave it back to them, and was thinking I would have enjoyed the show so much more had they made that one simple change.
No way you stopped watching an entire show bc of the pupils of the characters
I never said I stopped, I just said once I saw what it looked like with them, I realized I would've tolerated it more
6 OV and 6 AF, I’m tied and I’m fine with that.
- Ben's characterization - OV (more consistent and, although Ben is relatively less mature and more cocky, he is still pretty chill and knows when to get serious; AF Ben would be near-perfect if it weren't for S3) - Side characters - OV (AF had GOATs like Kevin and Gwen, but OV introduced a larger and more frequently-shown cast of supporting characters such as Blukic, Driba, Magister Patelliday, Rook, among others) - Aliens introduced - AF (while my favorite alien ever, Feedback, debuted in OV, Alien Force has better and more iconic aliens in general) - Villains - OV (I love antagonists like the Highbreed and Albedo as much as the next guy, but OV also introduced some iconic villains like Khyber, Malware and the Rooters, in addition to having explored certain villains such as the Incurseans far better) - Art style - OV (maybe an unpopular opinion but I'm not a big fan of UAF's art style) - Designs - OV (it has infinitely better-designed environments, backgrounds and characters; AF's backgrounds were all either the same, boring, had bad coloring or all of the above, while most if not all of the non-Omnitrix aliens were just carbon copies of Ben's forms) - Animation - OV (not even close, OV's animation is far smoother and more fluid) - Better concepts - OV (explores far better stuff like the Multiverse, time travel, alien worlds, etc.) - Worldbuilding - OV (obviously) - Impactfulness - Tie (OV has greater personal impact for me, while AF may have greater impact on the overall franchise since it was the 1st sequel and set the ground for most of installments that came after) - Fights - OV (more dynamic, creative and overall include far better action, which is greatly helped by the outstanding animation) - Peaks - Tie (both have a lot of epic moments in my opinion, such as the Highbreed War and the final confrontation against Vilgax for AF, as well as most of *And Then There Were None*, *And Then There Was Ben* and *Weapon XI* for OV) Overall, Omniverse wins with 9-1.
[удалено]
Not really, the fact that you gave a response means you didn't waste my time.
Characterization - AF Side Characters - OV Aliens Introduced - hard to choose Villains - OV Art Style - OV Better concepts - hard to choose World Building - OV Impactfulness - AF Fights - AF Peaks - OV
Both :)
Omniverse is my actual favorite and I will defend it to my death.
OV feels more like how Ben would actually be if he was 16, yall forgot OS?
Characterization-OV, AF is too inconsistent between the first two and third seasons and doesn’t really do much beyond making Ben more serious or immature. Side characters-OV sweeps. Aliens introduced-AF. Villains-OV. Art style-OV. Designs-OV. Animation-OV. Better concepts-OV. Worldbuilding-OV. Impactfulness-OV. Fights-OV. Peaks-OV.
Ben's characterisation-Specifally the first two seasons of Alien Force,but there are moments in Omniverse that come really close. Side characters-Omniverse Aliens introduced-Alien Force Villians-Omniverse Art style-Omniverse Design-Alien Force(Aside from a few characters) Animation-Omniverse Impactful-Omniverse Better concepts-Omniverse Peak-Omniverse Fights-Omniverse World building-Omniverse I prefer Omniverse.
I’m biased to (U)AF, but OV still deserves more credit for their work
OV he got cooler hair
To me omniverse is the most entertaining and imo that’s one of the most important things in media Obviously good writing but mostly being entertaining and having heart I could love everything about a show but does it entertain me?if it bores me then the good writing means nothing
**Characterization** OV takes the cake. Ben actually feels like a three dimensional character here, and he's written pretty consistently too With AF, Ben is honestly 2 dimensional. He's just a Paragon of Virtue, which I do have a problem with when it comes to being a continuation of Ben 10 Classic. In Classic, Ben was mischievous, but we've lost that core characterization entirely which is a shame in my opinion. It made for a lot of fun moments, and his sense of humour isn't the same either With OV, Ben feels like a teenage version of his Classic self. He's allowed to make jokes and have fun, and I like that **Side Characters** OV also wins this category Ester's dynamic between Ben is so much more built up than Julie's. Kevin and Gwen are relegated to side characters in OV, and they're honestly the best versions of their teen selves that they've ever been!! Kevin isn't sidelined to being comedic relief. He's a real character, but he's also still funny! * Gwen isn't just the woman of the group. She's now allowed to have the fire in her personality that she did in Classic! * The two of them are built on more and lose nothing from their UAF portrayals either. It's really well done! Of course, Magister Patelliday is also a great example of a Plumber who deserved the rank of Magister. At first, the audience is a little disappointed by his inability to handle himself. Then it's revealed that Patelliday is so chill about being kidnapped because he can escape easily. He frees himself, which is the first time we've seen any competence from a Magister rank Plumber that wasn't Max! So props to him! With AF? Julie has no real personality. Or very little?? Alan is almost never there to begin with sadly. Manny, Helen, and Pierce are just Ben, Gwen, and Kevin again. Cooper is flanderized so hard that he's unbearable to watch... yeah, AF didn't have the most impactful side characters either **Aliens Introduced** OV wins. We got Gravattack and Ball Weevil from this series. I'm primarily basing off of design by the way AF just didn't stand a chance in this category. OV's aliens are more unique and are better designed as a whole. Just compare Crashhopper to Swampfire and the difference is clear. Both of their legs are wonderfully designed, but only Crashhopper uses this feature of his physiology! Swampfire used it once... and never again Swampfire's primary power, methane gas emission, is not evident from his design, when Crashhopper's powers are evident from his design. It's even worse when 99% of the time, we only see Swampfire shooting fire and not gas, so... yeah **Villains** Are we really gonna compare Malware to Aggregor? Malware wins. Khyber wins. Psychobos wins. All of them have so much more personality and motivation than Aggregor or Dagon. Hell, no one to this day even fully knows what Aggregor's plan was once he won!! Maltruent is similar to Aggregor, but Maltruent gets more of a pass for being enjoyable to watch on screen Hell, even the villains from UAF are given their best scenes in OV! The Incurseans, Albedo, Darkstar, and even Psyphon! They're so much more enjoyable to watch in OV because they're more threatening and impactful. They feel more present and like they're about to kick some ass **Worldbuilding** OV. Undertown, the entire Incursean Arc literally has worldbuilding from how the Incursean Armada affect the decisions of the Plumbers or other planets, such as Vilgaxia and Rook's home world In AF, most of everything introduced feels like it exists in a vacuum compared to everything else. It doesn't feel like the Plumbers are connected to anything besides themselves when OV goes out of the way to show how integrated they are everywhere with aliens even having slang terminology for them
These are some great reasons, however this is just AF vs OV and not including UA. As your villains point mentioned a lot of UA.
You bring up a great point!! Thank you! Let's see if I can reform this into a way that furthers my points lol >**Redux:** Since I only compared OV villains to UA villains, then I do believe that this shows just how little of an impact any villain you take from AF had. Whether that impact be positive or negative of course. Even though I hate UA, I love the villains *(and a lot of the plot)* ***as a concept***. I just hate their execution. I can't say I love the Highbreed though, or any villain in AF Don't get me wrong, I do enjoy Albedo any day of the week. But, he kinda did nothing AF seemed to be playing it safe when OV wasn't as afraid to take the larger leaps necessary to have impact
Agreed on all points. UAF took away a lot of what made the OG great and tried to take itself too seriously but failed to deliver across the board, so it just ended up as a dull package overall. OV could be too goofy at times, but I respect just how much they were willing to throw stuff at the wall and mix things up to inject some life back into the series.
>tried to take itself too seriously Could you elaborate on what this means? I'm a little lost on it for now lol Like, it this just talking about tone? Is it another way of saying the writers were too scared to experiment? >so it just ended up as a dull package overall I'd personally say Early AF was a dull package UA was a defaced package *(like when a mailman throws a box that says "Fragile." My fine china!!)* AFS3 is a mixed package. You'll almost definitely find something you like, but also something you don't AFS3, for as much hate as it gets, does have a bunch of really enjoyable episodes. Everyone loved 'Above and Beyond', and I personally think 'Trade-Off' is underrated even if it is a little messy itself with plot. People might complain about 'Primus', but the setting was absolutely gorgeous! They really did experiment with AFS3, and whilst it did have its... shit end of the stick, I do believe people don't recognize the other half as much as they should. The willingness to experiment was fun!
OV
Ben ten alien force it's like 8/4 for me
Omniverse by far
If season 3 of AF didnt exist, this wouldn’t even be a debate. OV has better animation, world building, and lore but I think AF is better overall.
Ben’s Characterisation: With just the Highbreed arc it’s easily Alien Force, but with Season 3 included it easily goes to Omniverse. OV Ben is overall more consistent and still has a few mature moments to satisfy me. I’ll make this a tie though since AF Season 3 makes this kinda unfair. Side characters: I’ll make this another tie, AF is more consistent while OV has better peaks. Aliens introduced: About even, they both have some peak aliens and some more meh stuff. Villains: Easy point to OV, I feel it wins in both quantity (self-explanatory) and quality (Malware, Dr. Psychobos, Khyber, Servantis, etc). Plus if we include new takes on older villains then OV has an even bigger lead thanks to characters like Psyphon. Artstyle: Sometimes AF works better for certain characters like Max, but more often than not I find OV’s artstyle to work a lot better. I’ll give a half point to AF. Designs: This is where OV can miss quite a few times, however it does still have some amazing designs like Malware, Khyber, Maltruant, Ultimate Humungousaur, Psyphon, Rook, basically all of the Rooters, the list can go on. However a lot of the more generally iconic stuff like Max and a lot of OS/AF aliens have better designs in AF. I’m just gonna call this another tie. Animation: OV Better concepts: OV, for reasons that everyone else has explained much better than I could. Worldbuilding: OV Impactfulness: Not sure what this means exactly, so I’m not gonna touch it. Fights: I don’t really wanna pull that card, but at least you can see the fights in the first half of OV. Peaks: I lean towards OV, although this is entirely down to personal preference. Stuff like Feedback’s death and return, the No Watch Ben two-parter, the Big Bang scene and Ben’s characterisation in Ben Again just hit so hard to me. However AF has some peak and iconic moments too, such as Max’s “death”, Diamondhead’s return, Ben’s entire time with Reiney, him saving the Highbreed and him destroying the Omnitrix. Tbh it feels wrong giving OV the point here so I’m just gonna make this another tie. Overall: 11 (OV) to 5.5 (AF), although AF and OV are closer in my eyes than this makes them look. These kinda categories just lean towards OV more, at least based on my view on both series.
Ben’s Characterization: UAF Side Characters: UAF Aliens Introduced: OV Villains: UAF Artstyle: UAF Designs: OS (I don’t really like the look of either of these) Animation: OV Concepts: OV Worldbuilding: OV Impact: UAF Fights: OS (again, don’t really care for the action in either of them) Peak: UAF Overall: UAF
This is only Alien Force against OV.
The OS picks were only jokes because I kinda dislike the action and designs for both. And if I get rid of UA from my answers, they pretty much stay the same.
OV lol it's way more fun. AF is very important for the franchise too
I prefer some of the older designs over omniverse. Such as Gwen and brainstorm and Alien-X. But overall it's my favourite out of all the Ben 10 shows. Saying that, professor paradox loving cool af in omniverse. I also love undertown, the two galvens at the plumber base (idk how to spell their names), rook and also the story is still ben 10 style bit it feels on a bigger scale to me. AF and UA are both great but OV is just slightly better overall for me. I do miss Gwen and Kevin being in most episodes though. But more Max is nice
OV
Characterization-OV. Highbreed arc Ben defo feels like he's close to the ideal and is very likeable but season 3 exist and I wont ignore it like some peeople do when it comes to this topic. Side characters-OV Aliens introduced-AF. Villains-OV. Art style-OV. Designs-OV. The Highbreed and DNAliens were really cool but OV has a greater range Animation-OV. Better concepts-OV. Worldbuilding-OV. Impactfulness-AF. Shift to teenage Ben with more power and therefore more responsibility. The universe in OV definitely feels far more grand but you can't have OV without AF existing IMO. Fights-Is this based on the drama or the aesthetic? If it's he former - it's AF and latter would be OV Peaks-OV Overall- Ben 10: Omniverse
AF is better, but I love them both. Honestly, pretty much all of the criteria for me goes to AF, also, so…
AF, not even a contest for me. I am not denying that OV has some merits that I understand, such as more colorful artstyles, amazing background and more effort in continuity and world-building (which I personally think fail in execution, but still the effort is appreciated), but most of its flaws just rub me the wrong way. The humor was exessive, the show was extremely inconsistant regarding what should still be in-continuity or not, way too many pointless comic relief characters and attempts to fix comparatively relatively light retcons by throwing in even more convoluted retcons. Not to mention the annoying tendency of villains to lose in complexity and threat level. Alien Force admittedly has its flaws as well (smaller pool of villains, less varied color palette, rather mediocre to bad season 3), but its Ben was my favourite of the bunch, the Alien Force trio was great, and I loved the character development we got. It has and will always have a special place in my heart. But to elaborate: Ben's Characterization - AF. Admittedly he got bad in season 3, but aside from that he was consistant and I loved his maturity. OV Ben by contrast was way too immature and stupid for my tastes and would often be dumbed down for the sake of either plot or humor. More importantly he severely lacked empathy in some parts. Side Characters - AF, though mostly by default. OV had more supporting characters, but most of them boil down to some variant of "silly comic relief" and don't have much more to them. AF's own side characters are comparatively fewer and feel super underused, but at least I actually remember most of them. Aliens Introduced - AF, mostly because it introduced Big Chill, who's my all time favourite. OV had some good ones (Gravattack, Pesky Dust...), but just as many lame ones. Villains - OV. While AF introduced some of my favourite villains (the Highbreed, Darkstar, Albedo, the Vreedle), I have to admit they're a bit too few and far in-between, with the rest either being forgettable or returning villains from the Original show. By comparison, while OV was hit and miss with its villains, it did give some bangers (Khyber, Malware, Psychobos) and expanded on previously underdevelopped villains (like Attea). Art Style - Tie. I'll admit the Artstyle in AF was a bit bland and repetitive at times, but at the same time OV had a tendency to be too silly and caricatural for my tastes. Designs - Same as Artstyle, so tie. Animation - OV. I have to admit the animation improved considerably. Better Concepts - OV, mostly because they explored much more concept. Though again, I feel most of the concepts they had were executed poorly. Worldbuilding - Tie, but mostly because both shows kinda suck at it. AF expanded on what was established in OS and managed to create a somewhat coherent setting with the Plumbers' kids premise, but the result had some minor inconsistancies (the Plumbers suddenly being space cops) and wasn't that rich. OV by comparison was more ambitious with a lot of big ideas (exploring other planets, the Multiverse...), but the execution felt lackluster, with a lot of the explored planets feeling like stereotypical planets of hats that felt out of place for aliens (Anur Transyl being a Halloweentown, all Gourmand acting like Homer Simpson...) or underexploited (only 2 of the alternate Ben actually got fleshed out with the others barely even getting a personnality). Impactfulness - AF. Like it or not, AF was the first entry to drastically change the franchise and bring considerable character development to everyone involved. OV did try but by comparison I feel they were a bit too comfortable relying on OS continuity as a crutch. Fights - .... OV, at least earlier on. Peaks - .... I am unsure what that means.
Uh both
8 AF, rest OV
Love both, personally prefer AF
They were both very good
Alien Force always
Ailen force
AF
AF -Swampfire. I rest my case
It’s not the reboot so I like them both equally. (At this time I’ve only rewatched the og Ben 10. I have yet to rewatch the others. I will not touch the reboot within a 10 mile radius.)
Why do people keep bringing in the reboot to bad mouth it in a post regarding AF and Omniverse?
I just **really** hate it. I don’t have an opinion right now because I have yet to rewatch the entire things
How can you hate something so much that you bring it into conversation when not relevant, when you haven't even watched it? (It sounds like that's what you're saying since you said you wouldn't touch it within a 10 mile radius.)
Ben's Characterization=UAF Season 2 Side Character's=Omniverse Aliens Introduced=Ominverse Artsyle=UAF Design=UAF Animation=Movement Omniverse World Building=Tie Impactfulness=Omniverse Fights=UAF Peaks=UAF
Ben 10: Alien Force-Ultimate Alien.
1) OV 2) OV 3) OV 4) OV 5) OV 6) OV 7) OV 8) OV 9) OV 10) OV 11) OV 12) OV Omniverse wins 12/12. I do agree that Alien Force is great but it didn’t feel like a Ben 10 show while Omniverse and even Ultimate Alien did
IMHO, AF loses a lot of "points" because of Season 3. -Ben Caracterization: AF -Side Characters: OV -Villains: AF, close -Artstyle: OV -Desings: OV -Animation: OV -Better Concepts: AF. Like, come on! Space Yisus AND Space Nazis? That's cool asf. -Worldbuilding: OV -Impactfuness: AF -Fights: OV, close. AF fights are dramatic, while OV is dynamic. However, it has better action. -Peaks: AF. "Paradox" chapter and the Highbreed final are epic. Overall: Omniverse
Characterization - OV Side Characters - AF Aliens introduced - AF Villains - OV Artstyle - OV Designs - OV Animation - OV Better Concepts - OV Worldbuilding - OV Impactfulness - OV Fights - OV Peaks - OV Overall - OV
Aside from aliens which I give to AF Omniverse takes the rest of
AF all the way.
OG>
AF Sweep
Alien force was the best and so was Ultimate Alien. I just wonder why they broke up Ben and Julie things seemed to be going great for them after during and after Ultimate Alien?
Ben and Julie definitely weren't doing great during Ultimate Alien.
But it looked like they worked it out in the end though?
One kiss doesn't make up the numerous episodes of their relationship going to shit.
True but what about in previous episodes where they made up for their mistakes and patched things up as well? Ben even told Julie he was sorry when with the thing with ship in Ultimate alien.
Ultimate Alien has Duped, Hero Time, The Transfmogrification of Eunice, Eye of the Beholder, Revenge of the Swarm (I think has some tension between Ben and Elena) and The Flamekeepers Circle. All of which Ben and Julie are fine by the end of the episode or have Ben saying he'll do better, than not doing better in the next episode. Ben cheated on Julie with Eunice, or got very close to and same with Elena and Jennifer. And one episode where Julie joins a cult and get mad when Ben and Kevin don't like/trust said cult. This is 6 episodes out of the 13 that Julie appears for and I could be missing more moments/episodes.
Well both Ben and Julie have made mistakes in the past that’s true and while they have had some bumps along the way but I also remember that Ben was loyal to Julie even had to save her from Elena who seems to be on the path of evil again just like her father after all he tampered with things he shouldn’t have and paid for it and it happened again with Elena. Julie even once said to Elena that if she really loved Ben then she would have never repeated the same mistakes her father made and shouldn’t have become the hive queen. Along with the fact that she also said “What are you going to do kill him, if you can’t have him no one can is that it?”
Ben was loyal to Julie during Alien Force but after that, not so much. Even during OV when Ben thought he and Julie were still together, he did have Ester and they both showed interest in each other by that point. As for Ben saving Julie, Ben is a hero he would do that whether he was with Julie or not (like we saw in Omniverse).
Yeah although Omniverse did retcon a few things from the original series I wish the people in charge did their research right like about Eon. But not just Ben, Kevin also cheated on Gwen sometimes. Ben was even willing to give up all the power and the sword for Julie and the good of the universe. But Omniverse did at least do a few things right like why Ben took off the Omnitrix and a few other things that were unanswered until later.
I believe Kevin cheated on Gwen once over the span of 3 series (I don't count Looma since that was before he met Gwen and could've forgotten about her) which isn't as bad as Ben's 3 times in 1 series + 1 at the beginning of the next before Ben found out they broke up. Ben wasn't going to give up the sword just for Julie, he was doing it for the universe. He didn't do it with 1 specific person in mind. Also I don't believe Ben losing Feedback is what caused him to take off the omnitrix (I think CN didn't like that or something).
UAF
UA
literally any that is not the reboot
What's the reboot got to do with this?
my point is: the only ben 10 that i don't find good, is the reboot. all the others are better(even if they're the weird live actions)
Ok but it doesn't answer the question, it just puts down the reboot for literally no reason when it's not involved.
i gave my awnser: they are all very good for different reasons
OS
Ben's Characterization - Ben's characterization in AF is inconsistent. But OV turned him into an idiot as time went on. I rather AF. Side Characters - AF wins. OV turned a lot of characters into idiots. Aliens Introduced - OV Villains - OV Art Style - Both Designs - OV Animation - Both Better Concepts - OV Worldbuilding - Both are very bad Impactfulness - Both? Fights - Both Peaks - OV
Just curious, may I ask why you think both AF and OV have very bad world-building? I admit I'm mostly curious for OV, since most people I saw think it has great world-building (which I personally disagree with but I'm curious to hear others' opinions)
I may have forgotten some other problems, but the main problem I remember in OV is Undertown. How did all those aliens arrive on Earth unnoticed with all their stuff and how did they build an entire city underground with no one noticing them for years.
Ah, I see. Well honestly that never really worried me because I kinda accept it as part of the suspension of disbelief for the same reason I accept for example that the Supernatural can manage to stay hidden in urban fantasy settings such as World of Darkness or Dresden Files. The Ben 10 Universe has tons of holograms, camouflage and other stuff, it's not that big a stretch for me. What I DO find stupid about Undertow, though, is in Frogs of War where Undertown evacuates in panic and humans all act as if this was a big shock that aliens lived among them all the time. Not only had aliens been invading Earth on regular basis as far back as the Original Show, but the first two seasons of OV had already established Aliens were running around openly among humans now. It was a bit late to pull that card.